[04:05] ubuntujenkins : hello [06:28] hello [06:29] godbyk, I don't know why, but by compiling with the exported vi.po, problem with accent letters in small-caps 's gone [06:30] jcisio: Could you email me a copy of your vi.po file? (kevin@ubuntu-manual.org) [06:30] With my copy it's still making some characters lowercase. [06:31] http://jcisio.com/upload/um-lucid-e1-vi.po the po and http://jcisio.com/upload/ubuntu-manual-vi.pdf the compiled pdf [06:36] jcisio: It looks like the title in that pdf isn't the same as in my pdf, though. [06:37] In my pdf it has "bat dau" at the beginning. [06:37] yes, but I've just removed the first two words [06:37] (I've left out the diacritics because I'm too lazy to find 'em at the moment. Sorry!) [06:37] :) [06:38] My concern is that there may be other small-caps characters that are missing. But I guess we can check them on a case-by-case basis. [06:38] was "Bắt đầu làm quen với Ubuntu", now is "Làm quen với Ubuntu" [06:38] We only use small-caps for the running heads and for acronyms. [06:39] Yeah. It was the ắ and ầ that were missing small-caps variants. [06:39] in the next to the last word "với", the "ớ" is not ASCII or Latin1, but displays well [06:40] We're using the Linux Libertine font for the main body text (and the running heads). It has a pretty decent set of glyphs available. [06:47] yes godbyk, I've tested in OOo and the font worked [06:47] 'kay. [06:48] when you compile with my po it worked? [06:48] I'll be right back. I'm going to fix something to eat. [06:48] I haven't tried yet. I'll give it a shot soon, though. [06:48] and then try to add "Bắt đầu" at the beginning ;) [06:49] Is your po from the translations in launchpad? [06:49] yes [06:49] as the one in bzr is not very up to date [06:51] jcisio: Yeah, the files in bzr must be manually updated at the moment. [06:51] I will be updating them more frequently now since I will be focusing more on getting the translated versions working. [06:51] (Up to this point, my focus has been on the primary English version.) [06:55] just a notice, the step to make for my compilation is: [06:56] the first time (when get it from bzr): make ubuntu-manual-vi.pdf;touch ubuntu-manual-vi.tex;make ubuntu-manual-vi.pdf;make clean;make ubuntu-manual-vi.pdf [06:56] after that, make ubuntu-manual-vi.pdf always works as expected [06:57] I haven't check the Makefile, but the first pdf is not fully indexed (latex is not run enough?), need to run make again [06:58] time for a shower and go to school soon [06:59] I'll check the irclog godbyk [07:03] back now. [07:04] k [07:56] morning all [07:57] godbyk: I fixed some of the build dependats in my ppa last night all they will all be built by tonight so I can test them again [07:57] ubuntujenkins: awesome! [07:58] the build queue short now so the adding more will take less time [08:12] ubuntujenkins, have you documented your steps ? cos i will be useful for all other who wants to try packing, it was texlive that you have packed right? [08:18] hemanth: I am just getting the latest stuff from debian and poping it in a ppa . Packaging texlive can be done but it is allot of work, I decided to do it only if i have to. (ie the stuff from debian doesn't work enough) [08:19] ubuntujenkins, okies, you mean porting from Debian to Ubuntu? [08:20] I am porting from debian to my ppa at the moment . I think the packages i am using are in lucid or slightly newer depending on which one it is. [08:21] some stuff we need isin't in ubuntu but is in debian [08:55] godbyk: hi! seems i need a warning if a title or author translation changes. like just happened for vietnamese [08:55] thorwil: yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there yet. [09:15] godbyk: checked in titlepage-vi.svg with new translation and answered on the list, explaining the situation [09:18] thorwil: cool. thanks! [09:18] Apparently someone's translated the entirety of the Vietnamese manual -- but they did the translation in OpenOffice. [09:18] So now they're pasting it into Launchpad, I guess. [09:21] yeah, read that. ouch [10:45] hi there, I want to know the relationship between the website translation under ubuntu-manual and ubuntu-manual-website [10:45] wyh: They should be the same. [10:46] wyh: Original the website was under the ubuntu-manual branch. We then split it off into its own branch. [10:46] wyh: But since most translators weren't/aren't aware of the new branch, we thought we'd continue to copy the translation template file to the original location. [10:46] godbyk: but now I see it again under ubuntu-manual... [10:46] Launchpad will share the translated strings across the ubuntu-manual and ubuntu-manual-website projects. [10:47] Hmm.. let me talk to vish (our web dev guy) and see which set of translations he uses on the site. I'll have him post a response to the list. [10:47] godbyk: oh, that's it. problem is some translations done to ubuntu-manual-website is not applied back in ubuntu-manual [10:48] I'm a little confused... Can they sync automatically? [10:49] I have to manually sync the template file from the website to ubuntu-manual. [10:49] But if the string to be translated matches exactly, then Launchpad will share it between the two projects. [10:51] godbyk: yes, I can see them as suggestions. [10:52] So translate those under ubuntu-manual-website? [10:52] oh, they're just suggestions? understood. [10:52] wyh: Yeah, translate them under ubuntu-manual-website for now. [10:52] I'll pester daker when I see him next and ask which set of translations he's using on the site. [10:52] I think the -website one is the canonical version (as the ubuntu-manual one is just a copy), but I'm not absolutely positive. [10:53] godbyk: as far as I see, some translations are not applied on the site. so most likely you use the ubuntu-manual one [10:54] Well, the translation files must be manually updated for you to see their affect on the site. [10:54] The ubuntu-manual-website one is fully translated [10:54] It doesn't happen automatically. [10:55] and so is the ubuntu-manual one now. I updated it just now [10:55] Okay, thanks! [10:56] godbyk: :) not many strings, fortunately [10:56] Unlike the manual, right? :) [10:57] godbyk: no. I think the manual is huge work... [10:57] godbyk: I'm trying to get started with its translation [10:57] Yeah, there's a lot of content in the manual. [10:57] Which translation/language are you working on? [10:58] tricky thing is keeping consistent, and tex keywords [10:58] godbyk: Chinese simplified [10:59] Ah, okay. That one's just getting started, I think. [11:00] yes I think so, that's what many says in the mailgroup too: consistence with Ubuntu translation [11:01] godbyk: I tried to translate some. I'm 英华 on launchpad [11:01] Is there any chance that \menu{thing} searches in the appropriate po and automatically replace "thing"? [11:02] jcisio: I'm afraid not. [11:02] jcisio: regexp would do [11:02] \menu{thing} just formats 'thing' to be in bold. [11:02] jcisio: but I'm not good at that... [11:02] It's a cool idea, though. [11:02] yeah [11:03] maybe in a layer above po4a, a python script with regexp could do that [11:03] problem is that the translation is huge with thousands of modules, thus thousands of POs [11:04] Yeah, we'd need to know what program the menu is in, so we know which po file to look in. [11:05] But it seems like some relatively simple AI stuff could help out there. [11:05] We're going to be discussing a lot of translation-related improvements soon, I hope. [11:05] We want to get together with a bunch of the translators and see what ideas they have for making this process suck less. [11:06] If we can write some software that would help, then we're all for that. [11:08] well, I might try it [11:08] not a Python script, but a PHP one [11:09] merge the whole po, remove relative long stuffs, then read and replace in ubuntu-manual/po [11:10] the sole problem is that I don't know how to get po lol [11:10] With the po files for software programs, do they flag whether a string refers to a menu item, button, etc.? [11:10] You can download the po file. [11:10] no [11:11] but such items are exact strings [11:11] Go here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual, select your language, select the ubuntu-manual project, then click the "Download translation" link at the top. [11:11] I didn't know if the translated string may be different on a button than as a menu item for some languages, though. [11:11] if there is a \menu{thing} in manual (I don't say those with \then, it needs special treatment) [11:12] there's a great chance that in some po there's something like msgid "thing" [11:12] Yeah, you're probably right. [11:12] \then just prints the arrow. [11:13] I mean how to get the PO of all ubuntu package [11:13] So you could read everything inside the \menu braces {} and split on \then, strip out the surrounding spaces and you'll have a list of menu names and menu items. [11:13] Oh! [11:13] yes [11:13] Good question. I'm not sure either. [11:13] You can get them from the language-pack-* files -- at least the compiled versions. [11:14] Maybe the source versions of those packages contain the .po files? [11:14] and how huge that is... but by take care of only small string we may resolve 99% strings [11:14] yes it should contain [11:15] you could use the gettext library to search each .mo file (the compiled .po file) for the string, too. [11:17] do you know where are those files? [11:17] (for installed apps) [11:18] look around in /usr/share/locale-langpack, for instances. [11:18] instance, rather. [11:18] ah yes [11:18] * jcisio should have done find / *.mo [11:18] If you've installed language-pack-gnome-es, for example, you can run 'dpkg -L language-pack-gnome-es' to see the files/directories that it installed. [11:23] I think it'd be better ask those things in #ubuntu [12:16] hey guys [12:17] hey [12:18] humphreybc: your accent makes me laugh so much [12:18] dutchie: lol, really? [12:18] i was cracking up while listening to the omgubuntu podcast [12:18] everyone, check out the updated meeting agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [12:19] dutchie: you're meant to be laughing at our lame jokes, not my accent! [12:19] btw, Joey has re-edited the podcast to fix some stuff he missed, I think it's better now [12:27] dutchie: downloading that podcast now [12:29] humphreybc: http://www.mdke.org/?p=102 :s [12:29] vish: seen it [12:29] last paragraph is interesting [12:29] looks like they're learning something from us though [12:30] I can't download it 'cause it's been pulled offline for a bit, apparently. [12:30] godbyk, I think Joey is in the middle of replacing the old one with the newly edited one [12:30] hehe, only just saw that... [12:31] looks like its going to be a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggg thursday night for me [12:32] be up all night, hehe... [12:35] humphreybc: well its bout time they learned ;) [12:37] vish: heh, yeah [12:39] I have the book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 [12:40] really!? [12:40] wtf! [12:40] yes [12:40] awesome! [12:40] take photos [12:41] and put them online for us to see, [12:41] NAOW [12:41] wtf my status is still "fulfilling" [12:41] I'm having doubts as to whether it will arrive at Martin's in time [12:42] am i the first? [12:42] yes! [12:42] bollocks, i have a clash at UDS [12:43] UNE default app selection vs communication with translators via launchpad [12:43] I guess I can't go to UNE default app selection, then [12:45] I can remotely participate in one while physically being in the other :P [12:46] ubuntujenkins: nice! mine has shipped, but hasn't arrived yet. [12:47] still fulfilling here... not good [12:50] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/manualimages.zip [12:50] does it owrk [12:50] the white balance is rubish but i have to run to a lecture [12:51] humphreybc: ^ [12:51] kk [12:51] downloading now [12:52] I will do more when i have time [12:53] show us the binding! [12:53] the paper looks quite thin, is that the regular paper or the cheap stuff? [12:53] paper is thin I will mail the binding tonight [12:53] * ubuntujenkins runs like mad [12:55] lol okay [12:56] godbyk how many people have bought the book now? [12:56] 47, I think. [12:56] and can you please remove the cheap paper special edition? [12:56] It's already been removed. [12:56] It was never public to begin with. [12:56] oh okay [12:57] it was showing up under my "recently viewed" but I didn't see that, I thought it was similar books [12:58] you could only access it if you had the direct url. [12:58] kay [13:08] darn it! the podcast still isnt up [13:12] i think he's having upload problems [13:15] shame we have to wait so long for one audio file... :( [13:15] sry to ask this stupid question but do we have an ETA when the german ubuntu-manual is finished and if not do you need any translators or helpers to read translated stuff through? [13:15] humphreybc: ^ [13:16] godbyk, see above [13:16] lun4tic: I think the translation has been finished. We need to read through it and fix any mistakes. [13:17] Then we need to edit things a bit to make sure it looks good and get it ready to print. [13:17] is there any posibility to get the whole .tex file of the book? [13:17] lun4tic: Any help with editing would be great [13:17] i just seen things to get translation files [13:18] somehow a "full beta" of the book ^^ [13:18] i'm native german so i could help translate :) [13:18] of correct stuff [13:19] lun4tic: I can email you the current .tex file if you like. [13:19] lun4tic: You'll need to make any translation fixes in launchpad, though as the .tex file is generated from the launchpad translations. [13:20] godbyk: jup i thought so but a prerelease that i could read through as generated book here locally is a bit easier to read then a tex file :D [13:21] right [13:21] I made one a couple days ago and posted it: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-de.pdf [13:22] i'd like both :) [13:22] done a documentation project with tex not long ago [13:22] so i'm kind of used to it but at a very basic level [13:22] lun4tic: you sound like our man, familiar with tex, can speak german and english :) [13:23] hehe [13:23] some things in german are rather strange... [13:23] we would _love_ to get the german one out asap, so if you would like to take on the role of editor for that language and work with godbyk to make sure it's of a high quality, we would be very happy [13:23] heh, I know, I studied german for 4 years [13:23] cause there are so many experssions allready taken from english language [13:23] if the book is "too german" people wouldn't understand it anymore i guess ^^ [13:23] haha [13:24] the older readers are the more german you#ll have to make it to make non technicians understand it XD [13:24] lun4tic: I've emailed you a copy of the .tex file. [13:24] thanks [13:24] in example germans are kind of used to the word "download" [13:25] but if you ask older people they don't know what the f it means ^^ [13:25] heh [13:26] but i guess all people who are understanding stuff so far that they are going to try ubuntu they will also understand what a download is [13:26] humphreybc: the podcast download is up now [13:26] cool! [13:26] uh, what i just said didnt make any sense [13:26] hehe [13:27] haha [13:28] wow, its gone from 1 hour 20 mins to 30 mins long apparently! [13:28] humphreybc: did you natter while being interviewed again? [13:28] yeah, read the thing on the post [13:28] there's a note just above the download link [13:29] saw it [13:29] got the .ogg version [13:29] i'd recommend adding the rbox feed [13:30] you can skip better than in oggs [13:30] AND you get the latest one when it's released next! [13:30] godbyk: whats the build command? [13:30] yep [13:30] pdflatex says some ubuntu-manual.cls is missing [13:30] lun4tic: If you've checked out the source from the bzr repository and have TeX Live 2009 (from upstream) installed, you can run 'make ubuntu-manual-de.pdf' to build the German PDF. [13:31] lol, its so funny! [13:31] ok [13:31] lun4tic: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors has instructions for getting it all up and running. [13:31] very nice audio quality! [13:31] thanks! [13:32] we're working on making the audio quality even better for next wek [13:32] week*U [13:32] blah [13:32] did you like our sketch? [13:32] (at the start) [13:32] yea, hehe that was good [13:32] lol [13:32] very cool [13:32] thx [13:36] be back a little later, gonna go watch tv for a bit [13:37] lun4tic: no problem. we're actually using xelatex to build the pdf. makes the translation stuff easier. [13:37] k didn't do any translation stuff with tex yet :D [13:37] just did some manuals in german and english with two seperate files XD [13:38] Joey removed the CC song of the week from the second podcast edit :( [13:38] are the screenshots finished allready? [13:38] or is there still some quickshot work to do [13:39] still downloading from bzr... slow connection here ^^ [13:40] hello. Guys the following sentence is correct ? "When a contact wants to send you a file, the status icon to the left of the contact's name will flash with an icon of a paper plane." [13:41] lun4tic: http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ [13:41] i'd write something like "When a contact wants to send you a file, the status icon to the left of the contact's name will show a paper plane." [13:41] or something like that [13:41] c7p: It's grammatically correct, yes. Just a bit lengthy. :) [13:42] ok ty :) [13:43] I think I've missed sth about translated pdfs or not ? [13:47] godbyk, will you generate the pdfs or we will have to compile them ? [13:48] c7p: I will occasionally generate them and upload them to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ [13:50] godbyk: nice :), when will the final translated release will come out officially? [13:51] c7p: After it's been edited. [13:51] There's no set time-table. We'll release each translation as they're completed. [13:52] so you need an editor for each language i guess [13:53] c7p: Yes, exactly. [13:53] I'm going bring up this plan on Thursday's meeting. I don't think anyone will object. Once everyone's on board, we'll send an email to the list and start getting volunteer editors for each translation. [13:54] We'll release each translation once it's been approved by the editor. [13:57] so tomorrow we will know what an editor will have to do [13:57] hm... according to the pdf from german ubuntu forums there are no german screenshots.. [13:57] ok people... i got work to do... XD [13:58] hehe [13:58] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ [13:58] this says that all german screenshots have been finished [13:58] quickshot opens a extra X Server? [13:58] maybe they just haven't been added into the PDF yet. [13:58] with standard theme and stuff? [13:58] at least i read that somewhere ^^ [13:59] humphreybc: k so i wait till i have the most recent bzr version [13:59] till now i just have the forum pdf [13:59] okay [13:59] ubuntujenkins has to add the completed screenshots to the lucid-e1 branch. [13:59] :) [13:59] there ya go [13:59] lun4tic: just keep pestering godbyk and ubuntujenkins [13:59] I think he's added them already, actually, and I just haven't recompiled the PDF since. [14:00] ok so you need someone to keep you from getting lazy...? ;-) [14:01] lun4tic: not quite, more someone to keep reminding us to do something [14:01] we get buried in work, somewhat [14:01] if you come to the meeting tomorrow you'll see how much we have to power through this cycle! [14:03] irc meeting? [14:03] or live [14:05] ehm howto connect bzr with launchpad? any howto links? [14:05] irc meeting [14:05] lun4tic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings [14:05] lun4tic: I think that's covered here: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors [14:10] think i got the "whoami stuff wrong [14:10] i need some help on step 4 for the creation of SHH keys, Step 4: Next, enter then confirm a password to protect your SSH key. Your key pair is stored in ~/.ssh/ as id_rsa.pub (public key) and id_rsa (private key) [14:10] c7p: Sure. What's the snag? [14:10] the password would be one that i have thougt or it is stored on a file [14:11] eg ~/.ssh/ as id_rsa.pub (public key) and id_rsa (private key) [14:11] c7p: normally you have the password for your private key [14:11] ok ty [14:11] If you enter a blank password, then you won't be prompted for a password when you use the key to log in to another service. [14:12] or you can enter one and do some "PIM" stuff so that it is authorizes when you logon [14:13] don't remember all the packages [14:13] some gnome login pim... kind of package name ^^ [14:18] bzr is still unable to access launchpad [14:23] lun4tic: what's it saying? [14:23] lun4tic: you need to be a member of the ubuntu-manual team. [14:24] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual [14:24] done that waiting ... seems to work.... waiting... [14:24] XD [14:24] ok [14:24] got the wrong user name and there is an entry in the howto missing [14:24] i gotta do something like "bzr launchpad-login myusername" [14:24] so that launchpad uses my ssh key [14:24] that's true, you do need to do that. [14:25] bzr tells me that but it is still missing in the online howto :D [14:25] I think bzr warns you about that when you run it and haven't already set the launchpad-login. [14:25] right. [14:25] I'll add that to our TODO list. :) [14:26] lol [14:26] and for real authors that are absolutely not familiar with the whole technical stuff that needs to be simplified for sure [14:26] * humphreybc fetches TODO list from other end of the multiverse [14:26] lun4tic: we're working on ideas for that one [14:26] i mean i know people that know many languages and want to help ^^ [14:26] something like an online, collaborative, real time editor would be nice [14:26] for example one african guy who knows arabic, french, english and german :) [14:28] humphreybc: jup. some software that doesn't need any knowledge of either tex or ssh [14:28] but ssh is important so that we don't get any bots or guys that just want to troll the service ^^ [14:30] godbyk, it is 100% guaranteed that if i install the essential latex collections, i won't have any problem? [14:31] c7p: If you install using the instructions on that site (with the full scheme), you'll be all set. [14:31] If you install with just the essential scheme, you'll need to install some extra packages. [14:32] you can run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script to install those extra packages for you, though. [14:41] the instructions of the installation of Latex should be described with more detail i think [14:41] on the "Select a scheme:" screen what should i do ? [14:41] c7p: Which scheme is currently selected? [14:41] I think the full scheme is about 2.5 GB of downloads. [14:41] full scheme [14:42] Other schemes are smaller, but then you'll need to install a few extra packages. [14:42] If you're willing to wait for the download, have the bandwidth and disk space, I'd recommend full. [14:42] Then your bases are covered for any future stuff we do. [14:43] ok i will install everything :P [14:44] it will take about one and a half hour [15:04] 2.5GB [15:04] ok see you tomorrow... XD [15:05] 384Kbit/s line here -.- [15:08] heh, midori 0.2.4 gets 100/100 on the acid3 test... [15:08] see ya, lun4tic [15:09] godbyk: just kidding... ^^ [15:10] :) [15:10] lun4tic: hehe... [15:10] It takes quite a while to download and install. [15:10] cant i just checkout english and german? [15:10] cause i guess the whole build is every language with every screenshot in every language available XD [15:11] ahm.. i mean source not build [15:12] You mean from our bzr repository? [15:12] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/easy-to-use-lucid-themed-conky-bar.html [15:12] jup [15:12] Not really. [15:12] check that out ^^^ [15:12] Each language is only 0.5 - 1.0 MB, though. [15:12] Most of the repository space is filled with garbage that really shouldn't be there. [15:13] (I'm cleaning it all up for the second edition.) [15:13] godbyk: cleanup on isle 5! i repeat cleanup on isle 5 NOW XD [15:14] There's a TON of stuff that doesn't need to be there. [15:14] A few variations of the website still reside in there, for instance. [15:14] the whole stuff generated by the build i guess [15:15] ahm... i wasn't kidding about the 384kbit/s line... ^^ [15:15] just about logging off ^^ [15:15] if it takes too long i gotta go to campus and download it there. would take about 1min... ^^ [15:19] what screenshots am i missing? [15:19] godbyk: Is it german? [15:20] ubuntujenkins: um.. vietnamese [15:20] german's in there. [15:21] I think I just haven't updated the pdfs since you put it there, though. [15:22] no I haven't done that they are complete, see if i can do it quicksly now [15:23] all the approved screenshots so far are here just if i am not around and you need them https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots [15:24] ubuntujenkins: cool, thanks. I don't think there's a huge rush. [15:24] found something wrong on the german manual [15:25] I have plenty of tex-related things I need to get going first. :) [15:25] lun4tic: what's that? [15:25] i don't have to have full sources just find the web entry right? [15:25] * ubuntujenkins gggr bzr is bing anoying [15:25] other than the fact that makeglossaries hates me? [15:25] they are talking about the "enable" option on the firewall gui [15:25]