[00:00] <cwillu_at_work> although I suppose that's more my choice of daughterboard than anything
[00:00] <rcn-ee> yeah, those crappy usb mini a's to other...
[00:00] <cwillu_at_work> http://imgur.com/eaWYc&4cRh9&VetF1
[00:01] <cwillu_at_work> (3 images there)
[00:02] <rcn-ee> small but useful, easy to fit a project/product around it..
[00:02] <cwillu_at_work> yep
[00:02] <cwillu_at_work> about half the size of the beagle, and the same vertical clearance as the beagle's hdmi port
[00:03] <cwillu_at_work> they publish/open-sourced the schematics and such for the daughterboards, although not for the actual mainboards
[00:04] <cwillu_at_work> they bring out all of the pins though, or at least the vast majority of them
[00:04] <cwillu_at_work> some day when I'm right, I kinda wanna make an overo super computer :)
[00:05] <cwillu_at_work> daughterboard with slots for like 16 mainboards :)
[00:06] <rcn-ee> that would look sweet, lots of cpu power in a small area..  i know a another guy was buiding a full rack of beagles last year, but the pic's never surfaced..
[00:10] <Martyn> rcn-ee : I've got something better :)
[00:10] <Martyn> rcn-ee : and I'm bringing it to UDS :)
[00:11] <rcn-ee> really small tegra 2? ;)  nivida finally okay'd me, but they are still backordered...
[00:11] <Martyn> rcn-ee : Really awesome arm cluster :)
[00:11] <Martyn> the first smooth-stone prototype
[00:12] <rcn-ee> ah very cool... are they shooting for min-atx form factor. ;)
[00:13] <Martyn> No
[00:13] <Martyn> but I can't really talk about form factors
[00:14] <Martyn> In fact, even the prototype I'm bringing has to be kept in the box, and not opened
[00:14] <rcn-ee> that's defintelly an early proto...
[00:15] <Martyn> Yep.
[00:21] <cwillu_at_work> Martyn, ignore the man in the sunglasses and dark hat
[04:39] <DanaG> hmm, how do I get the u-boot to user the initramfs flashed by flash-kernel?
[09:22] <zumbi> lool: that's great -- i wish i could have more time to do this kind of work :)
[10:35] <NCommander> lool: if your around, can you take a look at approving this: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-maverick-arm-improved-subarch-detection/
[10:55] <ogra> rcn-ee, so looks like we have a workaround for the rootstock hang !
[11:04] <NCommander> ogra: \o/
[11:12] <zumbi> ogra: what do you think of using multistrap instead debootstrap?
[11:12] <ogra> what does it gain us over just using the mirror argument to rootstock ?
[11:13] <ogra> note that there is no problem to point it to a debian mirror ... it will likely just break on the hardcoded ubuntu stuff after debootstrap atm
[11:13] <ogra> which someone will have to fix for debian if a debian compatibility is wanted
[11:14] <zumbi> ogra: oem or thrid parties repositories to be supported
[11:14] <zumbi> s,thrid,third
[11:14] <zumbi> ogra: i'll have a look for debian compat but in terms of multistrap
[11:14] <zumbi> if you find it appropiate
[11:14] <ogra> does it behave like debootstrap otherwise ?
[11:15] <ogra> i have no objections if it doesnt break the current behavior
[11:15] <zumbi> multistrap behaves like debootstrap, but you can also add $your_business_mirror for customized packages
[11:15] <ogra> (i.e. it has to work with qemu-arm-static ... and should support all the ubuntu debootstrap scripts we use by default)
[11:15] <zumbi> ogra: sure, i'll try not to break current
[11:16] <zumbi> qemu should not be a problem, I'll have a look to debootstrap ubuntu stuff, but do you have a patched debootstrap?
[11:17] <ogra> in ubuntu ? just a bit i think
[11:17] <zumbi> it might be good then to add a switch so one can pick up which on to use (atm) debootstrap or multistrap
[11:17] <ogra> hmm 1.0.20ubuntu1 ... the version indicates that everything should be in debian
[11:18]  * ogra reads the description
[11:18] <ogra> "A debootstrap replacement with multiple repository support"
[11:18] <ogra> the word replacement scares me a bit
[11:19] <zumbi> well, it is just a matter of having a switch for each one of them (at the moment)
[11:19] <ogra> switching back and forth should be no prob
[11:19] <zumbi> ogra: you might not see it right now, but I only see benefits from using multistrap
[11:20] <ogra> it only scares me that i know debootstrap is maintained by the same person in ubuntu and debian so i can 100% rely on it to work for both
[11:20] <ogra> without having to fix patch or touch it at all
[11:21] <persia> Also, all the rest of our tools use debootstrap, so it would make something the odd one out.
[11:21] <zumbi> yes, that's a plus, we maintain multistrap and we are not hostile
[11:21] <ogra> but as i said, being able to switch between debootstrap and multistrap shouldnt be any prob at all
[11:21] <zumbi> we as emdebian
[11:21] <persia> zumbi: If you'd be happy to *also* maintain it in Ubuntu, that makes the decision less awkward :)
[11:21] <persia> ogra: Do you support --debootstrap-mirror already?
[11:22] <ogra> persia, i support only the mirror atm
[11:22] <zumbi> persia: sure, do i have to fins a sponsor for ubuntu or do an nm?
[11:22] <ogra> no reason --debootstrap-mirror couldnt be added with a few lines though
[11:22] <zumbi> (apologies for my spelling)
[11:22] <persia> There are no maintainers in Ubuntu, so everything is kinda NM (but we pretend we're in Uploaders without changing it).
[11:22] <ogra> zumbi, we sync from debian :)
[11:23] <persia> If you can get a single source tree that works well for both environments, then we can just sync, which is easiest.
[11:23] <ogra> if there is ubuntu support in the debian package we'll automatically get it
[11:23] <zumbi> ok, that should not be a problem or if it is we should work on it to fix it.
[11:23] <ogra> if you look at debootstrap, it just has two ubuntu scripts (and a bunch of links) added over debian
[11:24] <ogra> hmm, no i lied, its a few more
[11:24] <ogra> 9 actually
[11:25] <ogra> but using the same since the gutsy release
[11:25] <zumbi> anyway, i'll have a look sometime, do not expect any soon :)
[11:25] <ogra> ok
[11:25] <zumbi> btw, wookey will be arround at uds
[11:25] <ogra> oh, nice
[11:25] <zumbi> he is our project leader
[11:26] <ogra> i met him at a CELF in amsterdam
[11:26] <ogra> we were discussing solar thermal systems ;)
[11:26] <ogra> since we both own one
[11:26] <zumbi> yes, hehe, he likes that stuff
[11:27] <zumbi> well, thanks for the attention
[11:31] <ogra> zumbi, btw :) http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/watchthesun/
[11:35] <zumbi> is that a demo or your system? cool -- i used to work for a company which did things like that with sensors and stuff :)
[11:36] <zumbi> uhm.. and it is real time :)
[11:36] <ogra> yep :)
[11:36] <ogra> well, delayed, it rsyncs the data to the public server every hour
[11:36] <ogra> the relatime ubuntu machine sits in my basement
[11:39] <zumbi> wookey had a similar thing, http://www.wookware.org/talks/hotwaterballoon-Fosdem2009.pdf
[11:39] <zumbi> he tracks temps with rrdtool graphs
[11:40] <ogra> yeah, i havent found the time yet for the matching rrd setup
[11:40] <ogra> ist on ym TODO list but my job doesnt leave me much time for it
[11:41] <ogra> the site i showed you was actually supposed to only be the start, clicking on a sensor on the page should pop up the mrtg/rrd graph
[11:43] <zumbi> nice
[11:44] <zumbi> there is a project (flukso.net) which might be of help
[11:44] <ogra> oh, nice !
[11:44] <zumbi> they have a monitoring rrdtool based system with git repo, http://github.com/icarus75/flukso
[11:45] <ogra> cool
[11:45] <zumbi> but I have not check out the code to see if it is generic or if it is to much hardware dependent
[11:45]  * ogra would love to bring ubuntu into home aoutomation some day
[11:46] <zumbi> there was a talk/bof on that topic on later debconf, interesting stuff.. yes
[12:11] <lool> asac: Any input on the improved-subarch detection spec?
[12:12] <lool> asac: I'm going to prepapprove it, we can decide to schedule or not
[18:55] <rcn-ee> hey ogra, (qemu apt bug) those 3 times that it did work, did you just stick the "echo 3 /proc/cpu/alignment" in the install script? my two machines still locked up...
[19:05] <persia> rcn-ee: You might want to check the #ubuntu-devel logs: soren reported that the symptoms were very common to some seen for x86 in hardy.
[19:06] <rcn-ee> thanks persia, it's almost to the point i should just auto login there too. ;)
[19:11] <persia> It's not a bad idea in general.  Most of the core discussions for all architectures happen there, and it's a point of coordination between all the different development teams.
[19:59] <ogra_cmpc> rcn-ee, its "echo 3 >/proc/cpu/alignment"
[20:00] <ogra_cmpc> rcn-ee, needs to go somewhere after the mount stuff in the installer script
[20:19] <rgreening> persia: ping
[20:19]  * persia mumbles about contentless pings
[20:20] <rgreening> ha
[20:20] <rgreening> persia: just wondering about the possibilities of Ubuntu on ARM for Archos 5it? ARM Core A8
[20:21] <rgreening> persia: specs are 32GB of storage, an 800MHz ARM Cortex-A8 CPU, 256MB of RAM, 802/11b/g/n WiFi, a USB port, and runs Android 1.6
[20:22]  * persia is trying to figure out *which* Cortex-A8
[20:22] <rgreening> dunno if suitable to hackin ubuntu on to it.. but Id be willing to help out if its usable as a device we may want to target
[20:22] <rgreening> hmm....
[20:23] <rgreening> dont have the unit in fromt of me to see if I can figure it out persia
[20:23] <persia> Yeah, should work fine.
[20:24] <persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-live/current/lucid-netbook-armel+omap.img would be the image you want.
[20:24] <persia> Might need some hints to the kernel: it *should* boot on any OMAP3, but it's never quite that simple :)
[20:25] <persia> I think there's some special codecs and video drivers, but I don't know the package names offhand.
[20:26] <persia> And, as much as you like Kubuntu, running it with only 256MB of RAM will be extra fun :)
[20:26] <rgreening> persia: ya well aware of that. im thinking ubuntu for this
[20:26] <persia> Just remove the "k" from the URL :)
[20:27] <rgreening> ya
[20:27] <rgreening> persia: so, this thing has an internal flash, and I assume I just write the img to it using the imagewriter ya?
[20:28] <rgreening> persia: also, do we have an easy way to backup whats there? so it can be restored? or thoughts on this?
[20:28] <persia> No, it's not going to be quite that simple :)
[20:28] <rgreening> figured as much
[20:28] <persia> First step would be to track down some device-specific forum, and make sure you know how to backup & reflash the flash.
[20:29] <persia> Next would be to try to find a way to boot *selectable* kernels (because you want to make sure you don't flash something that bricks the device)
[20:29] <rgreening> http://archosfans.com has some useful links. I believe Archos released a developer linux image for the 5it
[20:29] <persia> Then try booting the kernel.  When that doesn't work, find/make a kernel that boots, and try to get that into the Ubuntu kernel tree.
[20:30] <persia> Note that folks will be annoyed if you make their devices stop booting along the way :)
[20:30] <rgreening> heh
[20:30] <persia> (most folks running the omap kernels seem to have BeagleBoards)
[20:31] <rgreening> This may be something for me to poke around with at UDS in the evenings
[20:31] <persia> *once* you have a working kernel, then you probably want to do an HD-install, following one of tbm's guides on how to install to a NAS.
[20:31] <rgreening> persia: this unit has a SD card slot and I have a 8 GB card in it
[20:32] <rgreening> could use that?
[20:32] <persia> If you can find a way to convince the bootloader to boot off SD, sure :)
[20:32] <rgreening> lol
[20:32] <rgreening> loads of fun
[20:32] <persia> It's probably running some version of uboot.
[20:33] <persia> But determining which, and how to adjust the config, and how to avoid bricking it in the process is where you get to have fun :)
[20:33]  * rgreening remembers the easy days of dd
[20:34] <persia> dd works, but you have to be *running an OS* to run dd :)
[20:34] <persia> This kind of fiddling isn't arch-specific: there's plenty of powerpc designs that have the same issues.
[20:35] <persia> It's about not having a standard for all devices to use the *same* hardware-bringup interface, so one can link into OS-specific second-stage bootloaders (e.g. grub)
[20:35] <rgreening> here's a link to someone else hacking on this apparantly: http://fladnag.net/blog/category/archubuntu/
[20:35] <rgreening> tru dat
[20:36] <persia> Cool, so the find-way-to-swap-kernel-without-bricking-it and find-kernel-config-that-works steps should be easy.
[20:37] <rgreening> I think he is using the develop edition firmware from archos
[20:38] <rgreening> I may have to pop him a msg
[20:38] <rgreening> ty persia
[20:38] <persia> Let me know how it goes, and if you get it working, please document *how* on the wiki.
[20:39] <persia> I'd like a little more RAM, but if it works, and can have USB Host somehow, I'd personally prefer it to a BeagleBoard.
[20:39]  * persia likes shiny plastic cases
[20:39] <persia> Note that it will suffer from all the standard issues that Ubuntu has at 800x480 :)
[20:40] <persia> You probably want to install lubuntu-desktop or similar on it.
[20:40] <rgreening> heh.
[20:41] <rgreening> just watching this. part way thru a ubuntu desktop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GIyeonA5jE
[20:42] <rgreening> he has to reboot/hard shut as not touch and no keyboard. hah
[20:44] <persia> Looks like Archos as a "mini-dock" that you want to get to have a keyboard.
[20:44] <rgreening> or a bluetooth kdeboard. I have a bluetooth mouse and it works well with it
[20:44] <rgreening> yes. I have used a mouse with this
[20:44] <rgreening> :P
[23:00] <Guest20529> in chicago ...
[23:37]  * cwillu_at_work stalks rcn-ee 
[23:47] <persia> Might be getting late in the day for that :)  rcn-ee's are best caught a few hours earlier.
[23:49] <cwillu_at_work> ya, I only got my images in a row a few minutes ago
[23:49] <cwillu_at_work> I've found a hardware dependent btrfs failure :)
[23:50] <cwillu_at_work> or a btrfs dependent hardware failure :/
[23:50] <cwillu_at_work> same card and image works in both beagles and overos if the rootfs is ext3
[23:50] <rcn-ee> nah i'm back.. ;)  wow... so it's only btrfs on overo..
[23:50] <cwillu_at_work> yep
[23:50] <cwillu_at_work> and at least that one specific file
[23:51] <rcn-ee> that's just crazy...  so what do we do next.. get the btrfs's guys involved/
[23:51] <cwillu_at_work> I poked them as well, yes
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> I'm guessing it's something with the "retrying using single block read" honestly, i.e., either btrfs isn't flushing properly, or something
[23:52] <cwillu_at_work> ooo, reply in #btrfs
[23:53] <rcn-ee> cwillu_at_work,  btw.. just in case... you haven't tried the 2.6.33.3-l1 right? (i think i found another gcc/kernel bug...
[23:53] <cwillu_at_work> nope
[23:53] <cwillu_at_work> you saw the pastes right?
[23:54] <rcn-ee> good, lucid's version stops at uncompressing.. (actually just loading as i see it..) grabbing a beer and taking shoes off. ;)
[23:57] <cwillu_at_work> shhhh, he's thinking :p
[23:57] <rcn-ee> patiently waits.. (they don't log their channel do they)
[23:58] <cwillu_at_work> uncertain
[23:59] <cwillu_at_work> usually I'm trying to get cmason's attention
[23:59] <rcn-ee> i couldn't find anything quick oh, well it'll be interesting to see what he thinks..
[23:59] <cwillu_at_work> I wouldn't hold your breath yet :)