[06:41] <dholbach> Development and MOTU Q&A Session in 20m
[07:00] <dholbach> hello everybody!
[07:00] <dholbach> who do we have here for the Q&A session?
[07:00] <dholbach> maybe let's start with a quick round of introductions
[07:01]  * dholbach is Daniel Holbach, living in Berlin, interested in making Ubuntu Development more exciting :)
[07:01] <dholbach> who else do we have here?
[07:01] <gotunandan> i am here
[07:01] <dholbach> sorry
[07:01] <dholbach> just turned the moderation off
[07:02] <dholbach> so please speak up, when you're here and let's do some introductions :)
[07:02] <gotunandan> nobody else ?
[07:02] <gotunandan> i saw your dent on identi.ca and popped up here !
[07:02] <dholbach> nice gotunandan :)
[07:03] <dholbach> I'm sure we have a few shy lurkers among the 154 people in here :)
[07:03] <jk-> ok, Jeremy Kerr here, living in Perth, Australia
[07:03] <gotunandan> still need to use #ubuntu-classroom-chat for the questions ?
[07:03] <jk-> :)
[07:03] <dholbach> hey jk-
[07:03] <jk-> heya dholbach
[07:03] <dholbach> no no, we'll just chat in here
[07:04] <dholbach> are you excited about maverick? :)
[07:04] <jk-> i am in a constant state of excitement
[07:04] <gotunandan> yeap... and more keen on joining in the "fun" in some way
[07:05] <dholbach> awesome - I set up a vm for maverick already :)
[07:05] <dholbach> did you guys bring any questions or is there anything you were wondering about packaging, ubuntu development, motu, tools, processes, etc?
[07:06] <jk-> kinda - I see that a package has been dropped (due to FTBFS), and would like to adopt it
[07:06] <jk-> so maybe that's more of a 'process' type issue
 What would I need to start with to help with packaging ? I have already done some basic packaging and I have a ppa on launchpad as gotunandan. But not sure whom to approach to get actively involved in helping the MOTU
[07:06] <maco> dholbach: better a vm than your actual system O_O toolchain freeze scary
[07:07] <dholbach> ok, let's go through these one by one
[07:07] <dholbach> jk-: cool - which package is it?
[07:07] <jk-> python-creoleparser
[07:07] <dholbach> maco: definitely - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases is your friend :)
[07:08] <dholbach> jk-: I found it here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/creoleparser/0.6.1-1
[07:09] <dholbach> and it seems to have built on i386: packages that are architecture-independent, such as a bunch of python scripts are just built on i386
[07:09] <maco> gotunandan: have you seen harvest http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest ? its dholbach's "find low hanging fruit for motu-wannabes" site
[07:10] <dholbach> maco: this one is not functional right now - I hope to get the new harvest site up soon though
[07:10] <gotunandan> maco: I have heard of it, not seen it. Having a look
[07:10] <jk-> dholbach: but not built for lucid?
[07:10] <maco> dholbach: oh
[07:10] <dholbach> Usually the https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/creoleparser/+publishinghistory page shows if it was removed or something
[07:10] <maco> dholbach: what happened to the prettiness rockstar made last UDS? it never got uploaded?
[07:10] <dholbach> jk-: it was built in karmic, then it never changed afterwards
[07:11]  * maco tries to remember +publishinghistory
[07:11] <jk-> i see
[07:11] <dholbach> maco: it was improved, but it's not deployed yet
[07:11] <dholbach> jk-: we don't rebuild all packages for a new release - it'd probably take weeks :)
[07:12] <dholbach> we just "copy them over"
[07:12] <dholbach> jk-: is there anything wrong with the package right now?
[07:12] <jk-> ok
[07:12]  * jk- wonders why it's not appearing in the repo then
[07:12] <dholbach> ok, let's see about that
[07:12] <jk-> possibly quite off-topic now though :)
[07:12] <dholbach> no no, that's fine
[07:13] <dholbach> first of all: you're right :)
[07:13] <persia> It's a bit off-topic, but the binary was probably removed due to a FTBFS with current tools, as a result of a supportable-binaries spec in lucid.  This affected ~600 packages.
[07:13] <dholbach> daniel@miyazaki:~$ LC_ALL=C sudo apt-get install -s python-creoleparser
[07:13] <dholbach> Reading package lists... Done
[07:13] <dholbach> Building dependency tree
[07:13] <dholbach> Reading state information... Done
[07:13] <dholbach> elky: Couldn't find package python-creoleparser
[07:13] <dholbach> daniel@miyazaki:~$
[07:13] <dholbach> oh, that's interesting, let me test-build it
[07:13] <persia> dholbach: Fix your nick-completion :)
[07:13]  * elky tilts her head wondering...
[07:14] <dholbach> errrrrr, that was xchat-gnome-auto-completion
[07:14] <dholbach> sorry about that - I didn't even press "tab" :)
[07:14] <dholbach> I just copied/pasted
[07:14] <elky> That's  not a very nice feature then
[07:14] <dholbach> not, not really
[07:14] <ToyKeeper> xchat -> settings -> preferences -> input box -> [ ] Automatic nick completion (without tab key)
[07:15] <persia> It's more helpful than it ought be: file a bug :)
[07:15] <dholbach> ok, so I just  apt-get source creoleparser; sudo pbuilder build creoleparser*.dsc
[07:15]  * elky hugs regular xchat and goes back to what she was doing.
[07:16] <gotunandan> maco: yes seen it now. Cannot really fathom where to go though ?
[07:16] <dholbach> aha, the package fails to build: http://paste.ubuntu.com/428772/
[07:16] <maco> gotunandan: dholbach just said that its currently in ick mode. the shiny new harvest isnt online yet apparently
[07:16] <gotunandan> maco: the sourcepackages,html page is huge !
[07:17] <maco> yeah.... i remember that
[07:17] <dholbach> gotunandan: best to ignore that page for now, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO lists a bunch of pages that make more sense right now
[07:17] <dholbach> jk-: I just had a look if the package changed in Debian and it did - http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/c/creoleparser/creoleparser_0.7.1-1/changelog looks a lot like it's going to build now
[07:17] <jk-> dholbach: so, say I hack on it a bit and fix that;
[07:17] <dholbach> "   * Use python.mk for install options."
[07:17] <ToyKeeper> (if xchat-gnome doesn't have the UI, it's probably '/set completion_auto off')
[07:18] <maco> gotunandan: also, if you can read a bit of code, know how to apply a patch & rebuild a package... the patch review team could use some help ;-)
[07:18] <dholbach> I'll just get the source from Debian and see if that works
[07:18] <dholbach> (got to the changelog page via packages.debian.org/src:<source package>)
[07:18] <maco> gotunandan: the patch review team and motu both have the goal of getting the patch in & bug fixed. its just that the patch review team tries to get the patches to upstream or debian so then the motu can just update the package to the latest version upstream and it magically is fixed
[07:19] <gotunandan> maco: yes, thats certainly possible. Whom do I get in touch with, nigelbabu ?
[07:19] <jk-> dholbach: sid ?
[07:19] <dholbach> jk-: if the package from debian builds just fine, we'll auto-import it in a few days (once maverick is truly open) since the package is unmodified in Ubuntu
[07:19] <dholbach> jk-: http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=sourcenames&keywords=creoleparser
[07:19] <maco> gotunandan: sure or join #ubuntu-reviews
[07:19] <jk-> ok
[07:19] <maco> gotunandan: we've got a patch day going right now
[07:19] <persia> gotunandan: If you're looking for patch review, stop by #ubuntu-reviews : if you're looking at getting the patch straight into Ubuntu, #ubuntu-motu is the better place.
[07:20] <jk-> but we sync from sid or squeeze?
[07:20] <maco> persia: well once its reviewed it can still have a shot at an sru
[07:20] <dholbach> jk-: ah, sorry - I misunderstood - I think for maverick we'll sync from sid again
[07:20] <jk-> i guess it doesn't matter in this case :)
[07:20] <dholbach> yep, but it fails the same way
[07:21] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/428774/
[07:21] <jk-> so I should hack on the debian package instead?
[07:21] <dholbach> it'll get auto-imported, so it will make sense to work on that
[07:22] <dholbach> what I'd probably try next is to see if a bug was already filed upstream about this
[07:22] <dholbach> it's a bit weird that the package seems to build in debian, but not here
[07:22] <dholbach> since we don't modify its code
[07:23] <dholbach> jk-: if the fix is really just "add some __init__.py files", it'd probably make sense to fix it in lucid too if the package is truly helpful
[07:24] <persia> Actually, arch:all packages often run into this issue, because of differences in the Debian and Ubuntu build systems.
[07:24] <dholbach> gotunandan: to get back to your question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO lists a lot of useful stuff - once maverick opens I guess a lot of people will focus on merging packages from Debian
[07:24] <persia> Most of those are bugs that are happily fixed in Debian.
[07:24] <dholbach> persia: but you wouldn't know what specifically is broken there? it's not a common ftbfs?
[07:25] <persia> I don't happen to know, sorry.
[07:25] <dholbach> ok, thanks
[07:25] <dholbach> gotunandan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging should give you some tips how to do it
[07:25] <dholbach> (and of course there's always #ubuntu-packaging and #ubuntu-motu)
[07:25] <persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html is also worth mentioning in the context of merging: we don't get everything from Debian.
[07:25] <gotunandan> dholbach: thanks !
[07:25] <jk-> ok, say it's an ubuntu-specific fix then, and I create a dpatch, what next?
[07:26] <dholbach> get it sponsored: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[07:26] <jk-> ok, cool
[07:26] <dholbach> usually just file a bug report or use an existing one, add the patch, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, get it uploaded
[07:27] <maco> dpatch?
[07:27] <dholbach> or you can use the distributed development approach
[07:27] <dholbach> where you branch off of lp:ubuntu/creoleparser
[07:27] <maco> is dpatch like debdiff? ive not heard this one before...
[07:27] <jk-> so attach the dpatch itself, or a patch to add the dpatch + changelog + etc
[07:27] <dholbach> maco: dpatch is one of the many patch systems
[07:27] <jk-> ?
[07:27] <persia> maco: dpatch is one of hte available patch systems: `apt-cache show dpatch`
[07:27] <dholbach> jk-: the latter makes it more straight-forward to just upload it (if it's good)
[07:28] <jk-> ok, great
[07:28] <maco> jk-: for what dholbach just mentioned with distributed development: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
[07:28] <jk-> maco: thanks
[07:28] <dholbach> where you branch off of lp:ubuntu/creoleparser , create a branch for that fix, and add a merge proposal
[07:28] <maco> im starting to appreciate source version 3 uniting on quilt. at least i only have to know how one thing works
[07:29] <dholbach> mvo wrote a tool call edit-patch (in ubuntu-dev-tools), it should help with all the different patch systems
[07:29] <maco> dholbach: hey i have a motu sponsory question. is there a way to see all bugs that have branches attached?
[07:29] <maco> or to see all open merge proposals for which you are able to approve it?
[07:29] <dholbach> maco: I use http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
[07:29] <dholbach> and sort by the first column
[07:29] <dholbach> all "unseeded"
[07:30] <maco> dholbach: i thought that was just listing bugs that have sponsors subscribed
[07:30] <dholbach> erm
[07:30] <dholbach> that's broken
[07:30] <dholbach> maco: no, branches too
[07:30] <dholbach> but the "unseeded" thing is broken right now
[07:30] <dholbach> more TODO list
[07:30] <dholbach> I'll get to it later today
[07:30] <maco> it just looks like all but 2 are for unseeded packages
[07:31] <jk-> does the merge proposal need a corresponding bug?
[07:31] <dholbach> maco: yes, that's a bug
[07:31] <maco> jk-: generally, yeah
[07:31] <dholbach> no
[07:31] <dholbach> if there's a bug, link to it, but you don't need to specifically file onw
[07:31] <dholbach> one
[07:31] <maco> i thought for bookkeeping it was good to have a bug and a LP: #foo in the changelog?
[07:31] <jk-> ok
[07:32] <maco> is this a bzr-lets-bookkeeping-happen-regardless thing?
[07:32] <dholbach> if there's some actual discussion about the thing going on, it's good to link to it in the changelog
[07:32] <dholbach> but if you just say something like "changed x, y and z in a, b, c: this makes the package build again" that's totally fine
[07:32] <persia> If there is a bug, the bug in the changelog is good.  For a Debian merge or UEHS update, no point to a bug if it doesn't already exist and one is pushing a branch.
[07:33] <dholbach> you'd write the same in the bug report anyway
[07:34] <maco> persia: k so the tendency i had to only file a bug once i had a patch ready to hand to a sponsor... that would no longer require filing a bug?
[07:34] <dholbach> not if you use distributed development
[07:34] <persia> maco: You may either file a bug or push a branch and request a merge.  Both show up on the sponsoring report.
[07:34] <dholbach> but still document as good as you can :)
[07:34] <maco> neat
[07:34] <dholbach> when you use bzr and distributed development, you can easily do a   bzr commit --fixes lp:123456   to link it
[07:35] <maco> though rawr ive only been at this a year-ish and im already behind the times
[07:35] <dholbach> (if this bug exists)
[07:35]  * persia tends to put the bugs in the changelog, and then use debcommit to automate the --fixes bit
[07:35] <dholbach> maco: I think everybody's figuring out how best to make use of UDD (ubuntu distributed development) right now
[07:35]  * maco does like persia
[07:35] <dholbach> persia: yes, that works as well :)
[07:35] <jk-> dholbach, persia, maco: awesome, thanks for the info, i owe you guys a beer :)
[07:35] <dholbach> (I've been working a lot on non-distro things in the last few weeks :-))
[07:36] <dholbach> jk-: no worries
[07:36] <persia> If it's not clear to anyone: there are almost no "right answers", as long as you find something that 1) works for you, and 2) complies with policy, and 3) happens to match others workflows.
[07:36] <maco> persia: you know whats fun (not really)? this mess:  bzr-buildpackage -S -- -sa -v####
[07:36] <dholbach> as you can see it was very useful to talk about these questions :)
[07:36] <dholbach> maco: I'd move the "-S" behind the "--"
[07:37] <dholbach> bzr bd -- -S -sa -v<version>
[07:37] <persia> Why -sa?
[07:37] <maco> persia: i was merging fromd debian
[07:37]  * persia actively avoids using -sa *except* when cleaning up after other folks
[07:37] <dholbach> persia: if you need to upload a new upstream tarball?
[07:37] <maco> where there was a new upstream release
[07:37] <persia> Still shouldn't need -sa
[07:37] <maco> well buildpackage was Not Happy when i didnt use it
[07:37] <maco> though that couldve been because i forgot -v too
[07:37] <persia> dholbach: It will auto-include it if it thinks it's warranted.
[07:38] <dholbach> persia: if you have 1.2-1ubuntu1 in Ubuntu and merge 2.4-5 from Debian?
[07:38] <dholbach> oh nice
[07:38] <maco> i was flailing about today trying to remember how to merge
[07:38] <persia> RIght, that's clearly a new upstream, so you get a new tarball.
[07:38] <dholbach> persia: and it includes the -sa magically?
[07:38] <maco> persia: so my forgetting -v is why it wanted me to -sa?
[07:38] <persia> It only fails when the versions aren't sufficiently different, or you need to push a new tarball to clean up after some mess.
[07:38] <dholbach> maco: the two are unrelated
[07:38] <maco> hrmph
[07:38] <persia> maco: Yes, because you didn't scope it correctly.
[07:38] <dholbach> gotcha
[07:39] <dholbach> do you all have any more questions? anything that was unclear in the explanations right now?
[07:39]  * maco looks back and forth from persia to dholbach
[07:39] <persia> dholbach: If the upload version and the prior version have different upsteam versions, yep.
[07:39]  * maco wishes you'd agree a bit
[07:39] <dholbach> maybe somebody of the shy people (not jk- and gotunandan :-)) who are just lurking here?
[07:39] <dholbach> persia: great
[07:39] <dholbach> maco: I filed bug 576242
[07:39] <persia> maco: It is the dynamic cooperative disagreement that is central to the process of arriving towards a flexible set of working practices :)
[07:40] <maco> dholbach: it *is* possible that one of those very rare times when the main sponsors are more efficient than the universe sponsors happened
[07:40] <maco> (yes i know old names)
[07:40] <dholbach> maco: no, I think it's more a problem with the packagesets in maverick
[07:40] <persia> It's a bug.
[07:41] <dholbach> any more questions? anything else you wondered about? anything else that seems broken? :)
[07:42] <maco> how many uploads do you have to sponsor before you get a pony?

[07:43] <dholbach> I don't know, but you get a lot of people liking you for reviewing their stuff :)
[07:46] <dholbach> any more questions?
[07:46] <ajmitch> how do we be a rock star? :)
[07:47] <dholbach> ajmitch: you of all should know!
[07:47] <arand_> (Don't have a system in fron of me, so general question): I find that I struggle quite a bit when i try to update a package with new [insert scm] versions. If I don't have an orig.tar.gz, is there any general guidelines on how to get to the point where ther is one, whilst still reusing the old diff.gz (possible?)
[07:47] <maco> scm?
[07:47] <ajmitch> source control
[07:47] <arand_> git/svn/whathaveyou
[07:48] <maco> pristine-tar?
[07:48] <ajmitch> generally there'll be ways of exporting it, such as 'svn export', or possibly 'make dist' for an automake project
[07:49] <ajmitch> whatevr way suits the project best, you'll want to have a get-orig-source target in debian/rules so that it can be automated by others
[07:49] <dholbach> ./configure <---> && make dist    (if available) should give you a tarball
[07:49] <dholbach> and something like   svn export   should make sure you don't have revision control meta data in your tarball
[07:50] <dholbach> I hope that one fine day in the future we stop caring about tarballs and just use branches for everything :)
[07:50] <maco> what does "bzr-buildpackage --split" do?
[07:50] <dholbach> until then, the above will make sense :)
[07:50] <maco> it says Automatically create an .orig.tar.gz from a full source branch.
[07:50] <maco> dholbach:  does that do what arand_ is asking for?
[07:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[07:50] <arand_> The autogen.sh I've seen around (with no configure), should one just run that and then "make dist" In those cases?
[07:51] <persia> arand_: All those alternatives aside, you should encourage any upsteam to produce some release archive (.tgz, .tar.bz2, .zip, whatever) when they do a release.
[07:51] <dholbach> arand_: that sounds like a good bet
[07:51] <maco> arand_: autogen.sh, in my experience, generates the configure
[07:51] <dholbach> maco: yes, that should work if they use bzr (or one has set up a launchpad import of some other revision control branch)
[07:52] <arand_> Does the autogen not also run the configure normally?
[07:52] <maco> dholbach: idea for next UOW:  UDD
[07:52] <ajmitch> yes please
[07:52] <dholbach> arand_: I've seen it do so, but I wouldn't rely on it
[07:52] <dholbach> arand_: best read what it does - they're usually quite small
[07:52] <dholbach> maco: james_w has been running them for every UDW and a few UOWs too
[07:53] <dholbach> ajmitch: there should be heaps of logs :)
[07:53] <arand_> Anyway, it appears as though "make dist" was the link I was missing in general
[07:53] <arand_> Thanks
[07:53] <dholbach> glad that works :)
[07:53] <maco> dholbach: oh in that case i need to pay more attention :P
[07:53] <dholbach> maco: but yeah, I guess we need to raise the profile of UDD
[07:53] <dholbach> I just learned about   bzr lp-open   a few weeks back
[07:53] <ajmitch> dholbach: yeah, it'll be a matter of finding & reading, like much of the documentation around
[07:54] <ajmitch> a few weeks? I learnt about it today
[07:54] <dholbach> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Previous
[07:54] <ajmitch> thanks
[07:54] <dholbach> de rien
[07:54] <maco> if the goal is for that to be the way things are done moving forward, seems it ought to be whats given to new contribs off the bat
[07:55] <imbrandon> bzr lp-open ?
[07:55] <dholbach> imbrandon: will open the launchpad page of the branch in a browser :)
[07:55] <persia> There's a sufficiency of folks that prefer the non-bzr method that we'll probably end up supporting both for a very long time.
[07:55] <dholbach> so if you want to submit a merge proposal, that makes it easy
[07:55] <persia> (especially for the die-hard git folk)
[07:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[07:56] <dholbach> ok, any more questions?
[07:58] <dholbach> ok... in that case best ask your questions in #ubuntu-packaging or #ubuntu-motu later on!
[07:58] <dholbach> have a great day everybody and thanks for all your questions and answers
[07:58] <dholbach> you guys rock!
[07:58] <ajmitch> thank you dholbach
[07:58] <arand_> Thanks for the session!
[09:00] <gotunandan> j/ignore #ubuntu-classroom +JOINS +PARTS +QUITS
[12:48] <patouxas> hi
[12:52] <patouxas> is anybody here?
[12:53] <patouxas> koukou
[12:53] <nhandler> Hello patouxas, can I help you with something?
[14:24] <andy__> @IdleOne here too :)
[15:47] <Picajoso> anyone here?
[15:47] <astraljava> Picajoso: Lots of people, as you can probably see. Sesssions will begin shortly, please be patient.
[15:48] <Picajoso> Ups. I saw no updates, and didn't know if everything was fine.
[15:50] <astraljava> Kernel Q+A beginning in 10 minutes.
[16:01] <akgraner> Good Morning!
[16:02] <akgraner> apw and ogasawara  will be fielding the Kernel Questions today
[16:02] <akgraner> if you all are ready - talk it away!
[16:02]  * ogasawara waves
[16:02]  * apw waves hello
[16:02] <ogasawara> thanks akgraner
[16:02] <ogasawara> Hi Everyone!
[16:02] <ogasawara> Welcome to the Kernel Q&A (question and answer) session.
[16:03] <ogasawara> My name is Leann Ogasawara and I'm a member of the Canonical Kernel Team.
[16:03] <ogasawara> I'm here with Andy Whitcroft and other members of the team to field any questions that you may have about the Ubuntu Kernel.
[16:03] <ogasawara> Please remember to post your questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prefix them with "QUESTION:".
[16:03] <ogasawara> We'll try to answer them as best we can.
[16:03] <ogasawara> Let's get started!  Does anyone have any questions?
[16:03] <ClassBot> bullgard4 asked: What does mean "to field the Kernel Questions"?
[16:04] <ogasawara> bullgard4: we're here to just answer any questions you may have regarding the Ubuntu Kernel
[16:04] <ogasawara> akgraner: next
[16:05] <ClassBot> Resno asked: How does the Ubuntu kernel measure up against other distros?
[16:06] <apw> our key aim is to be as close to mainline as possible, so we offer the freshest offering we can
[16:06] <apw> at the time of release.
[16:06] <apw> in addition we are always striving to cover the most common hardware as seen in systems
[16:07] <apw> regular people will buy.  to be a friendly and easy to use
[16:07] <apw> pretty similar to what other community distributions are trying to achieve
[16:07] <apw> akgraner, next
[16:08] <ClassBot> bullgard4 asked: /etc/init.d/unmountfs produces a message: "Unmounting weak filesystems." What are 'weak filesystems?' Those filesystems that have been mounted to /|/proc|/dev|/.dev|/dev/pts|/dev/shm|/dev/.static/dev|/proc/*|/sys|/lib/init/rw)?
[16:08] <apw> that sounds like a userspace message, not a designation i have seen used in the kernel before
[16:09] <apw> we'll have to look into that and try and get back to you
[16:09] <apw> akgraner, next
[16:09] <ClassBot> popey asked: Testing kernels sounds hard and might cuase problems for my system, how can you make it easier for me to test new kernels, and can I be happy that I wont break my production machine?
[16:09] <ogasawara> popey: great question.  I've actually been leveraging testdrive to do a lot of my testing.
[16:10] <ogasawara> popey: I don't have the link off the top of my head
[16:10] <ogasawara> akgraner: next
[16:11] <ClassBot> bullgard4 asked: '~$ ps -ef | grep flush; root       252     2  0 May05 ?        00:00:00 [flush-8:0]' What process spawns this process? Where is described the function of this process?
[16:11] <apw> those processes are spawed by the kernel itself to handle flushing of block devices within the kernel, they are there to provide process
[16:12] <apw> contexts where needed.  they are tripped by fsync and similar calls to perform data-writes.  they are relativly new and may not appear before kucid
[16:12] <apw> lucid
[16:12] <apw> akgraner, next
[16:12] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Apparently the upstream Linux developers will support the version of Linux that 10.04 is using for three years, however since 10.04 is LTS, that means Ubuntu developers will probably have to support it on their own for  the last two years when it comes to the server. By then it will probably be rather secure, but surely it would be better if 10.04 started to then use an upstream version of the kernel, but no security
[16:13] <akgraner>  updates only?
[16:13] <apw> ok there are a couple of strands here
[16:14] <apw> firstly we normally only do security updates at the later stages of support for a kernel so the change is minimal at these ages
[16:14] <apw> however, as there is synergy [sic] between the distros on v2.6.32 there is a strong likelyhood there will be longer
[16:14] <apw> term support for that release from the stable tree than there is normally
[16:15] <apw> secondly we are introducing backported kernels for servers on the 10.04 LTS.  here we will pull back kerenls from Maverick a
[16:15] <apw> and later to the LTS for use on servers
[16:15] <apw> akgraner, next
[16:15] <ClassBot> Odd-rationale asked: Does the Ubuntu kernel use a pae enabled kernel by default? If not, why not?
[16:16] <apw> by default we only install a PAE kernel where the machine has sufficient ram to warrent the use of it.
[16:16] <apw> for machines with less memory there is no benefit to be had from using a PAE kernel in general and there is a minimal cost
[16:17] <apw> to enabling PAE.  as we have to have a non-PAE kernel currently for the older hardware which does not support this, it is used where sensible.
[16:17] <apw> akgraner, next :)
[16:17] <ClassBot> bullgard4 asked: '~$ ps -ef | grep flush; root       252     2  0 May05 ?        00:00:00 [flush-8:0]' What process spawns this process? Where is described the function of this process?
[16:18] <apw> akgraner, that one is a duplicate
[16:18] <ogasawara> I think apw answered this already
[16:18] <jcastro> sorry
[16:18] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: I like how Resno called it the Ubuntu kernel.  Well when Ubuntu developers are supporting the 10.04 kernel on their own (unless they can convince upstream developers to support it for longer) then really it is a fork of the Linux kernel?
[16:18] <jcastro> I took over
[16:18] <jcastro> did you guys answer this one?
[16:18] <apw> jcastro, thats new
[16:19] <jcastro> ok, proceed! :)
[16:19] <ogasawara> sebsebseb: I actually wouldn't consider it a fork.  the key bits to note is we do closely follow the upstream kernel as much as we can.
[16:19] <jcastro> he says you answered that question when you answered the last one
[16:19] <ClassBot> ZykoticK9 asked: I have heard that Ubuntu submits fewer upstream kernel bugs then some other much smaller distros.  Is this accurate?  Are steps being taken to submit more bugs, regarding the kernel, upstream?
[16:21] <apw> yeah this is probabally true.  the kernel team in general is pretty small in Ubuntu
[16:21] <apw> we can and should be moving more of our bugs upstream as we find they are not things we introduced
[16:21] <apw> we use mainline kernel testing heavily to determine this and when we find that we are not the
[16:21] <apw> cause of the issue, we should be pushing bugs to the kernel bugzilla
[16:21] <apw> this is one area in which community help is much appreciated.
[16:22] <apw> when triaging bugs in the early phases we often find things are 'affecting mainline' and those helping with triage
[16:22] <apw> would be in a good position to help detect these and push them up.
[16:22] <apw> launchapd provides great integration once they are upstream
[16:23] <apw> and cirtainly in my experience moving them up to bugzilla often gets good responce from the mainline kernel developers
[16:23] <apw> who frankly hate their code to be broken
[16:23] <apw> our main drive is to increase the triage team to aid this process
[16:24] <apw> and they should encourage the reportrs to push them upstream as the developers often want direct testing help
[16:24] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:24] <ClassBot> popey asked: Using testdrive is great for testing stuff, but how much of the kernel testing is needed on bare metal? Is testdrive sufficient for most tests?
[16:25] <ogasawara> popey: obviously testing on bare metal is great, so say using a liveusb to test is something else to use.
[16:25] <ogasawara> popey: we've also started generating custom kernel iso's for testing.  we've been taking them to linux fest type conferences to wider testing as well.
[16:26] <ogasawara> popey: but for those wanting to just fire up a vm and test, testdrive is sufficient
[16:26] <ogasawara> akgraner: next
[16:26] <ClassBot> popey asked: I'm not a coder, what can I do to help make kernels better?
[16:27] <ogasawara> popey: I love this question.
[16:27] <ogasawara> popey: there's many places to contribute that don't involve writing code.
[16:27] <ogasawara> popey: like you've pointed out, we can always use help testing kernels, triaging bugs, or even cleaning up docs.
[16:28] <ogasawara> popey: we're always willing to mentor someone and get them pointed in the direction that scratches their itch
[16:28] <ogasawara> popey: come find us in #ubuntu-kernel and we'll get you going
[16:28] <ogasawara> akgraner, jcastro: next
[16:29] <ClassBot> popey asked: If there was a magic bullet you could get from the community which would help you guys/gals do your job, what would it be?
[16:29] <apw> i think the short answer is more help
[16:29] <apw> we are a small team and we have a heap of work to do
[16:30] <apw> people helping with trigaing is always going to help there
[16:30] <apw> also helping out on bug days ... we always need more bugs hugged
[16:30] <apw> we are going to have a specific Community session at UDS to dicsuss
[16:31] <apw> how we can better reach out to _you_ the community and help you get involved in _your_ kernel
[16:31] <apw> that will be open to remote and local participation for those who would like to contribute ideas
[16:31] <apw> jcastro, next pls
[16:31] <ClassBot> JanC__ asked: are those special kernel testing ISOs available somewhere publicly?
[16:32] <apw> they are meant to be being rebuilt nightly, that process seems to be broken at the moment
[16:32] <apw> but expect to see an announcement when they are ready for consumption
[16:32] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:32] <ClassBot> jcastro asked: Tell us about the mainline PPA builds
[16:33] <apw> the mainline PPA builds are a little bit of a misnomer.  they are actually an archive of all of the
[16:33] <apw> mainline kernel snapshots we have build installable .deb's for.
[16:33] <apw> these are both daily snapshots of the upstream trees such as Linus' mainline tree.  plus the officially tagged releases
[16:34] <apw> such as v2.6.32.
[16:34] <apw> they represent totally unmodified source for those kernels but built using an Ubuntu compatible kernel configuration
[16:34] <apw> these are primarily used to find out where problems were introduced or where they may be fixed
[16:35] <apw> for example if our latest 10.04 LTS kernel is based on 2.6.32.11 then we can try that version to confirm
[16:35] <apw> that the Ubuntu changes are not the cause of the issue.  we can use the latest v2.6.34-rcN kerenls to confirm
[16:35] <apw> if the issues are fixed in upstream mainline
[16:35] <apw> this in turn allows us to isolate potential fixes more quickly
[16:36] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:36] <ClassBot> LibertyZero asked: Are there any plans to switch to another scheduler like BFS in the (near) future?
[16:36] <apw> generally we look to follow upstream recommendations on such things
[16:37] <apw> so if there are more than one version of a particular piece of functionality
[16:37] <apw> as there is with the allocator we generally will select the recommended version upstream over the others
[16:38] <apw> in the case of BFS the patches are not in the kernel as yet so that is not even on our radar as an option
[16:38] <apw> new functionality and options tend to appear on our radar when they enter the kernel and are interesting (as BTRFS has recently)
[16:38] <apw> of course this does not stop people building their own kernels with different options and offereing them in a PPA
[16:39] <apw> of course those come with no warrently ... you get to keep both bits
[16:39] <apw> jcastro, next :)
[16:39] <ClassBot> bullgard4 asked: I got a message: "An automatic file system check (fsck) of the root filesystem failed. The fsck should be performed in maintenance mode with the root filesystem in read-only mode." Can you explain the term 'maintenance mode' please
[16:39] <jcastro> Not really kernel related but I guess you guys are closest to cover this area. :)
[16:40] <apw> maintenance mode is essentially a different boot mode wherein only the very minimum of
[16:40] <apw> services are started.  normally for a filesystem check the disk in question will not even be mounted read-write
[16:40] <apw> so normal operation is not possible.  this keeps the fsck process safe from interferance while it sorts out the issues found in the filesystem
[16:41] <apw> a good thing generally.
[16:41] <apw> maintenance mode is typically somewhere you end up when this sort of failure occurs
[16:41] <apw> normally you don't have to try and get there yourself, but booting into single user is pretty close
[16:42] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:42] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: What is the status of ext4 performance issues in general and the recent issue of forced syncs for umount?
[16:42] <apw> there has been a lot of talk about how ext4 is now slow ... this should be taken in the context
[16:42] <apw> of it still being significantly faster than ext3 has ever been.
[16:43] <apw> yes fixing some correctness issues and working round bad userspace applications has
[16:43] <apw> contributed to a reduction in ext4 performance from its height, but correctness is always the right
[16:43] <apw> path.
[16:44] <apw> the recent forced unmount performance issues seem to be fallout from another change probabally in the quota
[16:44] <apw> system, which removed a forced sync there.  we actually have patches in test right now which may well sort out the
[16:44] <apw> underlying issue for lucid and upstream they have a rework in progress to fix it completely for all filesystems
[16:44] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:45] <jcastro> no questions right now
[16:45] <jcastro> so why don't you tell us what you plan to do for Maverick!
[16:45] <ogasawara> heh, well most of what will be happening in Maverick will be discussed next week at UDS
[16:46] <ogasawara> but we know for sure that since it's following an LTS release, it's going to be radical and a huge jump in terms of kernel version
[16:46] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: My Dell 1012 freezes sometimes and even sysrq REISUB doesn't work, with nothing in /var/log.  How can I get more debugging info to provide good bug reports and figure out if it is kernel, xorg, etc?
[16:47] <ogasawara> nealmcb: well, there's a couple of things to test.  Is this a recent regression?  ie. if you revert to a previous kernel, does it begin to work.  that's usually a good indicator.
[16:47] <ogasawara> nealmcb: how reproducible is the issue?
[16:47] <ogasawara> nealmcb: can you trigger on demand
[16:48] <ogasawara> nealmcb: you could possibly try to use a serial console to get at the logs
[16:48] <ogasawara> nealmcb: could be a temp/overheat issue. . .
[16:48] <apw> nealmcb, thats probabally one to bring and discuss on the #ubuntu-kernel channel as we have lots of ideas mostly mad :)
[16:49] <ogasawara> heh, exactly
[16:49] <ogasawara> jcastro: next
[16:49] <ClassBot> Odd-rationale asked: Maybe this is taking a lttile away from the next session, but how does the default kernle differ from the server kernel? or is there a difference at all?
[16:49] <apw> the main difference is focus for the kernel.  the desktop kernel is more tuned for interactive use
[16:49] <apw> the server kernel is more aligned with server needs.  this means we tend to use a different disk
[16:50] <apw> scheduler algorithm, often the scheduling tick is slower as we care less about gettting to a user
[16:50] <apw> qucikly and more about getting stuff done
[16:50] <apw> there have been less and less differences recently as the kernel has gotten better at
[16:50] <apw> self tuning.
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <apw> the other difference is that we support the server kernle for longer
[16:51] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:51] <ClassBot> Odd-rationale asked: can you tell us a little about kerneloops? how it works and how it is integrated with Ubuntu?
[16:51] <apw> kerneloops is a post processor for kernel panics and dumps
[16:52] <apw> it pulls out the kernel stack trace for the incident and pushes it to the kerneloops.org site
[16:52] <apw> this allows the site to work out which kernel issues are most prevalent and possibly associate those with
[16:52] <apw> specific kernel versions or even with specific builds by specific distributions
[16:53] <apw> in ubuntu the kerneloops submissions are triggered directly from apport when it is about to report those
[16:53] <apw> same traces back to LaunchPad
[16:53] <apw> jcastro, next
[16:53] <jcastro> waiting on questions
[16:53] <apw> almost perfect timing :)
[16:54] <apw> jcastro, you have one now :)
[16:55] <ClassBot> ogasawara asked: Where can I reach members of the Ubuntu Kernel Team if I have more questions?
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:56] <ogasawara> so I'm talking to myself :) but  We usually hang out on FreeNode in the #ubuntu-kernel channel.
[16:56] <ogasawara> Our team spans a wide range of timezones so chances are good that one of us will be online.
[16:56] <ogasawara> ..
[16:56] <ogasawara> we can also be found at kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
[16:57] <ogasawara> but the mailing list is more for technical discussion (ie patches etc).  Not to gripe about bugs :)
[16:57] <ogasawara> jcastro: next
[16:58] <ogasawara> prolly last one as we're nearing the end of our session
[16:58] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Do you have any good links to generic Ubuntu kernel debugging help pages? :)
[16:58] <ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KnowledgeBase#Debugging has some general debugging tips
[16:59] <apw> as we are running out of time, we'd just like to thank you all for your
[16:59] <apw> interesting and detailed techinical questions ...
[16:59] <apw> it cirtainly was entertaining
[17:00] <apw> hope to see you in #ubuntu-kernel
[17:00] <ogasawara> thanks everyone!
[17:00]  * ogasawara hand it off to the server team
[17:00] <jcastro> thanks everyone!
[17:01] <jcastro> zul, ok, introduce yourself and take it away!
[17:01] <zul> Hi, Im Chuck Short from the Canonical server team, and today we will be doing a server q+a
[17:02] <zul> and im here with other members of the team who are going to help out
[17:02] <zul> like smoser
[17:02] <smoser> hello
[17:02] <zul> so if you want to ask questions please fire away
[17:03] <zul> so smoser why dont you explain what you do
[17:03] <smoser> OK.
[17:03] <smoser> My biggest reponsibility is the ubuntu enterprise cloud images (UEC)
[17:03] <smoser> We create 'ready-to-run' images for UEC or for EC2.
[17:04] <smoser> other than that, I generally help out with server bugs, features and the ubuntu platform.
[17:04] <smoser> I apologize if that was too exciting a description
[17:05] <zul> as smoser I generally help out with server bugs, features, and the ubuntu platofrm as well
[17:05] <zul> so does anyone have any questions?
[17:05] <zul> well to get the ball rolling
[17:06] <ClassBot> zul asked: what are your plans for maverick?
[17:06] <smoser> That was directed at me ? i presume ?
[17:06] <zul> both of us
[17:06] <smoser> you first
[17:06] <smoser> OK.  I'll go.
[17:07] <smoser> This week and last we've been working on putting together plans (blueprints) for what we'd like to work on for Maverick
[17:07] <smoser> That list of things can be seen at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~jib/+specs?role=approver
[17:07] <smoser> Next week, at UDS we'll discuss these with other members of the Ubuntu Server team and the larger Ubuntu community in general.
[17:08] <smoser> many of the sessions are brainstorm centric while others will have more concrete discussions ready to go
[17:08] <smoser> This is a better link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~jib/+specs?searchtext=server-maverick-
[17:08] <zul> i hope you get involved with us next week as well
[17:08] <ClassBot> leonel asked: any plans to include a light webserver for VPS ? like  www.cherokee-project.org
[17:09] <smoser> if you're unfamiliar with UDS, please read up.  At this point if you weren't already planning on going, you're probably not going to be there physically
[17:09] <smoser> however, the IS team does an *outstanding* job of making remote-attendence via IRC with streaming audio possible.
[17:09] <zul> leonel: yes we will be discussing at UDS a more lightweigh webserver
[17:09] <ClassBot> leonel asked: I mean in main
[17:11] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Do you have some demos that anyone with an Amazon or Eucalyptus cloud account could run to demonstrate the cool cloud features in Lucid?
[17:11] <smoser> nealmcb, I don't have an explicit demo at all.
[17:11] <smoser> Maybe thats something I should try to put together.
[17:12] <smoser> zul authored most of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide
[17:12] <smoser> which walks you through getting an instance booted on EC2.
[17:12] <smoser> Once you're there and in, I have to say there isn't much terribly exciting about the "base image".
[17:13] <smoser> Everything that you can do with it revolves around it being basically Ubuntu server.
[17:13] <smoser> whatever you can imagine for ubuntu server, you can do on EC2 or UEC in an instance.
[17:13] <smoser> One interesting thing that differs between "standard server" and EC2/UEC images is cloud-init
[17:14] <smoser> at http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/ i wrote a blog entry about what you can do with cloud-init
[17:14] <smoser> Theres more to document there, but that might get you started.
[17:14] <smoser> next question ?
[17:14] <ClassBot> zul asked: whats the difference between EC2 and UEC?
[17:15] <zul> thanks zul would you like to take this one smoser?
[17:16] <smoser> UEC is "Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud".  This is a cloud offering from Ubuntu based on Eucalyptus.
[17:16] <smoser> It allows you to run a "private cloud" inside your lab (on your own hardware) that is API compatible with EC2's public cloud.
[17:17] <smoser> This might be desireable for development, or places where data is highly sensitive.
[17:17] <smoser> oh, one other thing, the UEC installation is present right in the ubuntu server CDs.
[17:17] <smoser> so it is *very* trivial to set up a UEC cloud if you have 2 or more hardware systems (with VT extensions) systems to play with.
[17:18] <smoser> next question.
[17:18] <ClassBot> Softwareexplorer asked: I once tried to get a postfix/ dovecott email server working on jaunty. When I finally got it, I had no clue what I did right. Part of the problem was that none of the ubuntu wiki pages said how to use the postfix-dovecot package and just told how to set it up the old way. When I wanted to set up an email server on 10.04, I had no idea how to do it again. Is there the possibility of someone writing a wik
[17:18] <zul> Softwareexplorer: there should be some documentation in the ubuntu server guide at https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/index.html
[17:19] <zul> its written by the community by adam sommer so if there is a feature missing it please file a bug in launchpad
[17:19] <zul> next question
[17:19] <ClassBot> Softwareexplorer asked: What kind of hardware requirements are there to run UEC just to try it out? How hard is it to set up?
[17:19] <zul> i think this one up your alley smoser
[17:20] <smoser> Softwareexplorer, hardware requirements are 2 physical systems. Each probably needs 2G of ram, and 1 of which must have VT extensions
[17:20] <smoser> vt extensions are present in just about any hardware desktop or server created in the past 3 years or so.
[17:21] <smoser> if you've got amd64 hardware, most likely you have them especially if its amd, not intel.
[17:21] <smoser> you can check to ake sure with the 'kvm-ok' command.
[17:21] <smoser> Once you've got the hardware, the software setup is quite trivial
[17:21] <smoser> the CD install (or from USB) has an option to "install UEC cloud"
[17:21] <smoser> and you simply select one system as the Cloud Controller, and one as a Node.
[17:22] <smoser> after installation of both systems the cloud will be ready to go.
[17:22]  * smoser is searching for link
[17:22] <smoser> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/CDInstall .should get you started.
[17:23] <smoser> that covers 9.10, but mostly the same.
[17:23] <smoser> Softwareexplorer, is that a reasonable answer?
[17:24] <ClassBot> zul asked: How can I get the UEC and EC2 images?
[17:25] <smoser> zul, the UEC is available as part of the ubuntu server.
[17:25] <smoser> the easiest way to install it is definitely to do a fresh install from an ISO or USB key and select the "Install UEC".
[17:26] <smoser> The EC2 Images can be run on EC2 or on UEC.
[17:26] <smoser> more information is available at http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/release/
[17:26] <smoser> That will give you EC2 commands to launch the instances as well as their AMI ids.
[17:26] <smoser> For UEC, you can download the ".tar.gz" files there and register them with "uec-publish-tarball" on your installed cloud.
[17:27] <smoser> next question
[17:27] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Our server blog at http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/ can help get our messages out - how can we encourage more posts there, or are there other venues?
[17:28] <zul> good question i would ask you to contact mathiaz on #ubuntu-server.
[17:28] <zul> most of the ubuntu server developers obviously hang out on #ubuntu-server
[17:28] <zul> next question
[17:29] <zul> we have weekly meetings as well on #ubuntu-meeting where users and developers can raise issues that they find.
[17:29] <zul> they are on tuesdays now
[17:30] <zul> we also do a lot of backporting to LTS releases such as hardy because alot of our userbase still use the LTS on their servers
[17:30] <zul> any other question?
[17:30] <ClassBot> mdeslaur asked: Any plans on integrating enterprise groupware software?
[17:31] <zul> mdeslaur: yes we do have a session next week at UDS to include into universe packages such as sogo and zafara
[17:31] <zul> sogo being a calendar groupware server and zafara is a microsoft exchange like product
[17:32] <zul> next question
[17:32] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Will there be a session at UDS on how to better market the great server offerings and how to stimulate more community involvement on the server side?
[17:32] <zul> nealmcb: yes there should be a session at UDS for getting more people involved
[17:33] <zul> alot of our users are sys admins so we need a way to draw in our users to the community
[17:33] <zul> next question
[17:33] <ClassBot> JanC__ asked: I thought Postfix was supposed to be the default mailserver on Ubuntu, but I hear from several people that they got Exim installed (probably through some dependencies?) -- what's the current policy about this?
[17:34] <zul> postfix is the default mail server in main, but yes you can use other mail servers such as exim since they are packaged in universe
[17:34] <zul> next question
[17:35] <zul> so a couple of sessions we are having at UDS are things like how we can integrate things like puppet in a configuration management system
[17:36] <zul> another session would be how we can get better support for Alfresco in ubuntu
[17:37] <zul> we also to get better integration with software such as nagios and munin as well but these sessions will all be discussed at UDS next week with the community's participation
[17:38] <zul> an interesting project we had last release in lucid was server-papercuts
[17:38] <zul> the idea behind this is that the users can nominate small things that they find annoiying in ubuntu-server and have them nominated to be fixed in lucid.
[17:39] <zul> we are going to be continuing this in maverick as well
[17:39] <ClassBot> JanC__ asked: what I meant is that "by default" apparently some packages pull in Exim instead of Postfix?  shouldn't they pull in postfix if they need an MTA and no other one was installed by the admin?
[17:40] <zul> JanC_: well yes obviously that is a bug in my opinon and it should be fixed
[17:40] <zul> next question
[17:40] <zul> if any :)
[17:40] <zul> another feature we are lookig at for maverick is web 2.0 workloads
[17:41] <zul> sites like facebook and linkedin are pretty big at the momment and we would like to get better support for them in ubuntu
[17:41] <zul> so we are also having a session on that at UDS next week as well
[17:42] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: I heard about some performance issues with some server loads on ext4.  Are there times ext3 would be better?d
[17:42] <zul> nealmcb: i heard that as well bug I havent seen any benchmarks myself, I do believe there is a bug open about it launchpad
[17:43] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/570805
[17:43] <smoser> i'm not completely suited to answer this question. but, as I understand it, basically fsync is much more expensive for ext4.
[17:43] <smoser> workloads that made extensive use of that call would see performance loss
[17:44] <smoser> but i'm very much glossing over that.
[17:44] <smoser> sorry i couldn't be more help.
[17:44] <smoser> next question?
[17:45] <zul> smoser: so what plans do you have for cloud-init
[17:46] <smoser> to make it better :)
[17:46] <smoser> the overall goal of cloud-init
[17:46] <smoser> and other utilities that we put into the cloud images is to make them very friendly to use in the cloud
[17:47] <smoser> last cycle focused on getting hooks in early  in the boot cycle, so that, via "user-data", you can control much of the initial boot of the instance, and make it do your bidding.
[17:47] <smoser> we will probably continue refining that, but will be adding other function to make the instances "cloud friendly"
[17:47] <smoser> one thing that has been brought up is "ebs-mount" from the turnkey images folks.
[17:48] <smoser> this will allow you to take automated action on connection of an ebs volume (if so configured).
[17:49] <smoser> next question
[17:49] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Often we advise folks to wait to upgrade their existing servers until the .1 release.  When might 10.04.1 come out?
[17:49] <zul> nealmcb: according to the maverick release schedule (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule) july 29th
[17:50] <zul> alot of the SRU (stable release updates) that we are working on right now will be included in the point release
[17:50] <zul> so yes for server we usually recomend and wait for the point release
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:51] <zul> SRU is the process where we backport bugs that are already fixed in the development release, in this case maverick to the stable release, in this case either hardy or lucid
[17:52] <zul> so if you find a bug with for example PHP we try to get it fixed in maverick first and depending how hard it is to get it fixed for lucid we usually backport the patch
[17:53] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: What's new in the Java world for Ubuntu?  In Lucid or coming up in Maverick?
[17:54] <zul> for java we are looking at better integration with things like maven and possibly jboss, you'll have to be at UDS next week to find out since we will have a session about that as well
[17:54] <zul> next question
[17:55] <zul> i guess we have like 6 minutes until the next session does anyone else want to ask a question?
[17:55] <zul> ill give you a cookie if you do ;)
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:55] <zul> well if you dont smoser and I can be usually found on irc
[17:56] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: How can people help test server stuff on different hardware?
[17:56] <smoser> indeed.
[17:57] <zul> nealmcb: it depends on how much help we get at the release time, you can help test ISO when they are released at the iso tracker at http://qa.iso.ubuntu.com
[17:57]  * zul gives nealmcb a cookie!
[17:58] <zul> on real hardware I dont know off the top of my head, most of the testing is done on qemu-kvm
[17:59] <zul> any more questions?
[18:00] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: Can I get two cookies served up with cloud-like frosting integration? :)
[18:00] <zul> only if you file a blueprint
[18:00] <zul> :)
[18:00] <zul> well thanks everyone for coming
[18:00] <smoser> there will be plenty of cookies at UDS.
[18:00] <zul> and beer
[18:00] <smoser> Please, for anyone interested in participating, please do.
[18:01] <pedro_> That was a great session! thanks zul and smoser ;-)
[18:02] <pedro_> Alright folks, My name is Pedro Villavicencio Garrido and I'm the guy behind the Ubuntu Desktop bugs
[18:02] <pedro_> Today i'll talk about How to work with Bug reports, either Reporting or Triaging those
[18:03] <pedro_> The bugs on Ubuntu are tracked on a BTS called Launchpad, which i think you might know already
[18:04] <pedro_> If you want to report a bug we recommend to use the 'ubuntu-bug' tool
[18:05] <pedro_> Until Lucid there was a menu item in the Help menu called "Report a problem"
[18:05] <pedro_> it was removed and now it can only be used on the development release
[18:05] <pedro_> so don't panic if you don't find it
[18:05] <pedro_> alright so how to use ubuntu-bug ?
[18:06] <pedro_> it's pretty easy, what you need is to open a terminal and type :
[18:06] <pedro_> ubuntu-bug <package name>
[18:06] <pedro_> ie: ubuntu-bug gnome-panel
[18:07] <pedro_> if you do it, you'll see a new window appearing into your desktop
[18:07] <pedro_> with some "Apport is collecting information" message
[18:07] <pedro_> and then you need to just follow the steps of the application to open the new bug report
[18:08] <pedro_> but what if you don't really know the name of the package ?
[18:08] <pedro_> you can also pass to ubuntu-bug the Process ID
[18:08] <pedro_> as: ubuntu-bug 12345
[18:09] <pedro_> and then again, the apport window will show up
[18:09] <pedro_> finding the right package name might be tricky sometimes
[18:09] <pedro_> that's why we have the  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage guide
[18:10] <pedro_> if the guide doesn't help you, you're more than welcome to stop by the #ubuntu-bugs channel and ask there
[18:10] <pedro_> there's plenty of people willing to help
[18:11] <pedro_> it's also important to describe the bug the better you can
[18:11] <pedro_> if you put as a title something like "does not work"
[18:11] <pedro_> or "i don't know"
[18:12] <pedro_> well if you don't know, we might not know either ;-)
[18:12] <pedro_> so it's really, really important to describe everything the best you can
[18:12] <pedro_> there's an amazing guide which might help you with that: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[18:13] <pedro_> and it's translated to several languages and i'm sure it applies to every BTS in the world ;-)
[18:13] <pedro_> you'll make a lot of QA people happy if you follow that guide , trust me ;-)
[18:14] <pedro_> For more information on how to report bugs in Ubuntu, please use the guide located at :  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[18:14] <pedro_> and again , if you have questions #ubuntu-bugs is the perfect place
[18:14] <pedro_> Ok so we have our bug filed in Ubuntu, what's next?
[18:14] <pedro_> who deal with those reports?
[18:15] <pedro_> There's a team called the Ubuntu BugSquad
[18:15] <pedro_> The BugSquad is the first point of contact for the bugs filed about Ubuntu, we keep track of them and try to make sure that major bugs do not go unnoticed by the Developers
[18:15] <pedro_> that process is called "Triage"
[18:16] <pedro_> Working with the BugSquad it's an amazing way to start helping and learn a lot about Ubuntu and it's infrastructure
[18:16] <pedro_> You do not need any programming knowledge to join the team, in fact it's a great way to return something to our Lovely Ubuntu project if you cannot program at all
[18:17] <pedro_> Our points of contacts are:
[18:17] <pedro_> #ubuntu-bugs here in Freenode
[18:17] <pedro_> our mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
[18:18] <pedro_> and of couse the lp team page https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad
[18:18] <pedro_> there's only a few requirements to join the team
[18:18] <pedro_> * Sign the Code of Conduct
[18:19] <pedro_> * Read the Triage Guide - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/
[18:19] <pedro_> * Subscribe to our mailing list
[18:19] <pedro_> that's everything you need to join us
[18:20] <pedro_> Let's talk about Bug Triage
[18:20] <pedro_> The Bug Triage is an essential part of Ubuntu's development and consists in :
[18:21] <pedro_> * Respond to the New bugs as they are filed in our BTS
[18:21] <pedro_> * Ensure that New bugs have all the necessary information
[18:22] <pedro_> * Assign bugs to the proper package
[18:22] <pedro_> A *big* portion of the bugs we have to deal with are not assigned to the right package or even not assigned to any
[18:23] <pedro_> so it's really important you choose one when filing a new bug on Ubuntu
[18:23] <pedro_> to give you an idea , here's is a list of new bugs without a package: http://is.gd/bWXr8
[18:25] <pedro_> there's a lot of bugs there that need to be reassigned to the proper package, if you have time and want to help us, well consider in join the BugSquad ;-)
[18:25] <pedro_> * Confirming the reports by trying to reproduce them
[18:26] <pedro_> this is also important and please remember to not confirm your own reports
[18:26] <pedro_> if you think it's easy to reproduce, well describe the issue the best you can in the bug report itself , someone else will follow your steps and confirm it
[18:27] <pedro_> if no one does it for a few days, you're welcome to join #ubuntu-bugs and ask there
[18:27] <pedro_> we also:
[18:27] <pedro_> * Set priorities to bug reports
[18:27] <pedro_> * Search and mark bugs as duplicates
[18:28] <pedro_> * Send the bugs upstream when applicable
[18:28] <pedro_> and we have a nice guide for that here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream
[18:28] <pedro_> with most of the Upstream BTS out there, GNOME, Mozilla, OpenOffice, Debian, etc
[18:29] <pedro_> if you think we're missing one, please tell us, so we can create the documentation with your help
[18:29] <pedro_> we do Cross reference of bugs from others distributions
[18:30] <pedro_> and Expire the old bugs
[18:30] <pedro_> All of these activities help the bug report to get fixed and subsequently making Ubuntu even better
[18:31] <pedro_> If you have done enough Triage work, you can apply to the Ubuntu BugControl team
[18:31] <pedro_> which is the one with more rights over the reports in Ubuntu
[18:31] <pedro_> basically you can see the Private reports
[18:31] <pedro_> Change the importance of the Bugs
[18:32] <pedro_> and set a couple of status (Triaged, Won't Fix)
[18:32] <pedro_> the requirements to join the team are available at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[18:32] <pedro_> and the launchpad team page is: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol
[18:33] <pedro_> We encourage everyone who wants to join the Ubuntu BugSquad team to also join our BugSquad Mentoring Program
[18:34] <pedro_> which is the perfect to make your way trough the Triage world and it will help you to join the Ubuntu BugControl team in a more prepared fashion
[18:34] <pedro_> instructions on how to join? : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
[18:34] <ClassBot> optix asked: Can someone become an Ubuntu member by doing Triage work?
[18:36] <pedro_> optix, to answer your question... YES! , several of our members are Ubuntu Members and they 'win' the privilege of becoming one by also doing lot of Triage work
[18:37] <ClassBot> Pendulum asked: How much time commitment does the bug squad require?
[18:38] <pedro_> Pendulum, I'd say between 15 and 20 minutes per day is enough to start
[18:39] <pedro_> Pendulum, if you join the Mentoring Program you can set up a schedule with your Mentor and discuss how much time you can spend on the triage work
[18:40] <pedro_> Pendulum, we care more about quality of work rather than volume ;-)
[18:40] <pedro_> we do prefer someone who triages 1 bug in a good way, rather than someone doing crazy things on 50 :-P
[18:41] <ClassBot> mistrynitesh asked: Sometimes it so happens that being technically challenged, I do basic work like finding right package, requesting more information for incomplete reports etc. but can't proceed much ahead. What do you suggest should I do in these cases so that the bug gets triaged?
[18:41] <pedro_> the next step is to talk to the Maintainers/Developers of that package/program
[18:42] <pedro_> it's all about communication, raise the issue with the developers and for sure they're going to look over that problem
[18:42] <pedro_> Let's talk briefly about Bug Status
[18:43] <pedro_> since you're able to change some of them without any special rights
[18:43] <pedro_> We currently have 9 status, they are: New, Incomplete, Invalid, Confirmed, Triaged, In Progress, Fix Committed, Fix Released and Won't Fix.
[18:44] <pedro_> New status means that no one has triaged or confirmed the report.
[18:44] <pedro_> don't mix it with the meaning on Bugzilla
[18:44] <pedro_> The Incomplete status means that the bug is missing some information
[18:44] <pedro_> like the steps to reproduce the bug
[18:44] <pedro_> The Invalid  status should be used when the bug report does not contain adequate information to determine whether or not it is a bug even if it is resolved for the reporter. Be careful when you set this status, when a bug has the invalid status it will no longer show up in default searches.
[18:45] <pedro_> Confirmed  status is almost self explanatory; someone other than the reporter has experienced the same bug.
[18:45] <pedro_> (remember to not confirm your own reports)
[18:45] <pedro_> The Triaged status is set by a member of the Ubuntu Bug Control team when they think that the bug has enough information for a developer to start working on fixing the issue
[18:46] <pedro_> f a bug was marked as Triaged and a Developer has started working on fixing the bug, that report needs to be marked as In Progress
[18:46] <pedro_> this status sometimes creates confussion
[18:46] <pedro_> In Progress is not the same as Incomplete
[18:47] <pedro_> We've seen some people changing the status to In Progress when they are asked for more information
[18:47] <pedro_> as in "I'm searching for the files in my desktop so I'm going to set this to In Progress while i'm doing that"
[18:47] <pedro_> no no, that's a mistake do not do that, the status should remain as Incomplete
[18:48] <pedro_> If a developer has committed a fix to a bzr branch or to another repository the report needs to be marked as Fix Committed
[18:48] <pedro_> And when that amazing Fix is released (available on an official Ubuntu repository) the status of that bug reports needs to be changed to Fix Released
[18:49] <pedro_> There's also Importances in the Reports, basically the importance of the bug signifies the priority that it should be given by people fixing bugs
[18:49] <pedro_> we don't have enough time to explain those though, but the documentation is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[18:50] <ClassBot> bdrung_ asked: An upstream developer is doing triaging work in Ubuntu, but he can't set all statuses and see private bugs. What should he do to archive these rights? should he join the bugsquad for just one package?
[18:50] <pedro_> nice question!
[18:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:52] <pedro_> they need to join the Ubuntu BugControl team, the Upstream developers are really important to us, so if you're an upstream developers and you don't have the rights to look are you bugs in Launchpad just ping any of the Ubuntu BugControl admins either by IRC or email and we'll add you to the team
[18:53] <pedro_> did you ever hear about The Ubuntu Bug Day?
[18:53] <pedro_> Once a week the BugSquad organize an event called "Ubuntu Bug Day" or Hug day (Triage a bug win a hug!)
[18:53] <pedro_> The idea of a hug day is to work together with the BugSquad and project maintainers to focus our collective effort on a specific task
[18:54] <pedro_> Bug days are perfect to start working on the Bugsquad and giving back some love to your lovely Ubuntu project
[18:54] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/
[18:54] <pedro_> we do have a lot of people contributing to those, let me show you some stats
[18:54] <pedro_> on 2009:
[18:54] <pedro_> 3262 bugs were triaged during bug days
[18:54] <pedro_> 37 bug days were organized
[18:55] <pedro_> 119 contributors participated on bug days
[18:55] <pedro_> if you want to do some bug work but don't know where to focus, well bug days are perfect for that ;-)
[18:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:56] <ClassBot> mistrynitesh asked: When the bug is fixed in upstream, what should it be marked as?
[18:57] <pedro_> the task should remain as Triaged but we do treat those as an special case on the desktop bugs
[18:57] <pedro_> setting those as Fix Committed until we find a better way to deal with the upstream status in Launchpad
[18:58] <pedro_> the problem is that there's no way to easy see in the launchpad bug list which bug is fixed or not upstream
[18:58] <pedro_> that's something we'd like to discuss at UDS with the launchpad team though ;-)
[18:58] <pedro_> you're all welcome to join us
[18:59] <pedro_> ok that's all from here folks, again if you have a question #ubuntu-bugs and our mailing list are the best for those . Thanks for attending!
[19:00] <akgraner> Hi all!
[19:00] <akgraner> [slide 1]
[19:00] <akgraner> Hi everyone!   I'm Amber Graner or akgraner on IRC.
[19:01] <ClassBot> Slides for Ubuntu Women: http://frylock.redvoodoo.org/~akgraner/Ubuntu_Women_Session_Open_Week_Lucid.pdf
[19:01] <akgraner> I'll be using slides today - so if you want to follow along please do :-)
[19:02] <akgraner> just to make sure slide one is up
[19:02] <akgraner> [slide 1]
[19:02] <akgraner> this is my 1st open week session I am leading
[19:02] <akgraner> so please be patient with me :-)
[19:02] <akgraner> so who am I?
[19:02] <akgraner> Currently I am the Ubuntu Women Project Leader.
[19:02] <akgraner> However I also wear a couple other hats in the Ubuntu Community as well  - I recently became the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter – Editor-in-Chief and I am active on NC LoCo Team, and helper to jcastro and crew for open week.
[19:03] <akgraner> I have a blog called You-In-Ubuntu on www.ubuntu-user.com and contribute to the new Ubuntu User Magazine as well
[19:03] <akgraner> That's probably more information than anyone really wanted to know about me :-D
[19:03] <akgraner> So lets get started -
[19:03] <akgraner> [slide 2]
[19:03] <akgraner> oday  I want to talk and share with you a few aspects of the Ubuntu Women Project.
[19:03] <akgraner> This talk is about the following:
[19:03] <akgraner> What is the Ubuntu Women Project?
[19:03] <akgraner> Current initiatives
[19:03] <akgraner> Why Participation is important
[19:03] <akgraner> Review Lucid (10.04) Goals
[19:03] <akgraner> Preview Meerkat (10.10) Goals
[19:03] <akgraner> How you can help!
[19:03] <akgraner> And once we get through this and if there is time we'll have some  Q & A
[19:04] <akgraner> (please let me know if I am going to fast to slow etc)
[19:04] <akgraner> [slide 3]
[19:05] <akgraner> I also wanted to state up front what this talk is NOT –
[19:05] <akgraner> A debate on if women/chix/girlz groups are needed
[19:05] <akgraner> (they are, enough said)
[19:05] <akgraner> A debate on Feminism
[19:05] <akgraner> (there is nothing to debate – we believe equality is a good thing)
[19:05] <akgraner> A debate on Sexism (what it is or if it exists)
[19:05] <akgraner> (It still exists!)
[19:06] <akgraner> while there are places to discuss those things it's not the focus of today's session
[19:06] <akgraner> [slide 4]
[19:07] <akgraner> so what is the Ubuntu Women Project
[19:07] <akgraner> Melissa Draper (elky) make a great business card that sums up “elevator pitch” style what Ubuntu Women is all about.
[19:07] <akgraner> Encouraging Women to use and contribute to Ubuntu
[19:07] <akgraner> But how the how is what we we talk about a little later in the session
[19:07] <akgraner> [slide 5]
[19:08] <akgraner> I highlighted UWP as I often refer to the project with either UW or UWP. So if I do that today you will know what I am referring to.
[19:09] <akgraner> Just a little history about the project  - The project was founded in 2006 by Vid Ayer, then others quickly joined.  In 2007 Elizabeth Krumbach (pleia2) was instrumental in getting all the pieces and parts (mailing list, forums, irc, and website) joined together for one collaborative Ubuntu Women Project working together under shared common goals.
[19:09] <akgraner> since 2007 there have been many more outstanding team members  and contributors
[19:10] <akgraner> [slide 6]
[19:10] <akgraner> The most important and key word here is  - TEAM.
[19:10] <akgraner>  Teams are known by their devotion to teamwork rather than individual achievement and the Ubuntu Women Project has a talented, skilled, resourceful, knowledgeable team supporting it that is just amazingly awesome!
[19:11] <akgraner> While no one is doubting how powerful a statement  the words foster, contributors,  involvement, mentoring, inspiration, projects, boost visibility, women, all, Ubuntu, invite,help, exciting, social, and  rewarding are – none of the stuff the Project does would be possible without the dedicated efforts of the TEAM
[19:11] <akgraner> [slide 7]
[19:11] <akgraner> The question now in my mind is how does the Project Accomplish those things listed above.
[19:11] <akgraner> Let's take a look at some of the ways-
[19:11] <akgraner> [slide 8]
[19:12] <akgraner> we do so with the following
[19:12] <akgraner> Current Initiatives include
[19:12] <akgraner> 1st Annual Ubuntu Women International Women's Day Competition
[19:12] <akgraner> 1st Annual Ubuntu Women World Play Day Competition
[19:12] <akgraner> We are finding great sponsors for these competitions, believe in the merit and worth of the Ubuntu Women Project as much as the team members themselves.
[19:13] <akgraner> Also we try to involve the whole community in the competitions by asking the whole community to take part in voting and not only that but, we ask Jono Bacon, our Ubuntu Community Manager to take part as well.  By doing this we are illustrating that we are and will continue to find ways to encourage women by encouraging and relying upon inclusive community participation.
[19:13] <akgraner> Through these competitions the Ubuntu Women Project  helps increase the visibility of women and girls who use and contribute to Ubuntu.
[19:13] <akgraner> Remember the focus in on encouraging women to use and contribute to Ubuntu by mentoring, retaining, inspiring, as well as increasing the visibility of women in the Ubuntu Community through an inclusive, inviting, rewarding, social, and exciting team
[19:14] <akgraner> [slide 9]
[19:15] <akgraner> So the UW International Women's Day Competition was new this year to the team and we were able to celebrate and see how many women in the Ubuntu Community discovered Ubuntu in the “How I discovered Ubuntu” story submissions.
[19:15] <akgraner> All the stories were great – and illustrate that each of us (female/male) discover things in very different ways.
[19:15] <akgraner> If you haven't had a chance to read those stories yet, take a moment and go to: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Events/Competitions/InternationalWomensDay/HowIDiscoveredUbuntu?action=show&redirect=InternationalWomensDay/HowIDiscoveredUbuntu
[19:16] <akgraner> And many thanks again to all those sent in stories, voted, and those who later read them and are encouraged by them.  Remember this WILL be an annual event :-)
[19:16] <akgraner> [slide 10]
[19:17] <akgraner> 1st Annual Ubuntu Women World Play Day Competition
[19:17] <akgraner> Haven't heard of this yet then visit: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Events/Competitions/WorldPlayDay
[19:17] <akgraner> (as I make of note to advertise these better if you haven't heard of it yet)
[19:17] <akgraner> Basically  -
[19:17] <akgraner> "We would love to have a collection of examples of young girls (toddlers through to 12 years old) playing with -- and loving, and being encouraged to pursue -- Ubuntu. This would allow parents of girls to demonstrate that it really is ok to be intrigued by the shiny screens, blinking lights, tappity-tap of keyboards, and faint whirs of computer fans."
[19:18] <akgraner> This competition is currently underway.  Do you know of a girl ages 2-12 that uses Ubuntu?
[19:18] <akgraner> Have they submitted a photo?  If so thanks!  If not there are only a few days left to get them submitted.
[19:18] <akgraner> All entries must be submitted no later than 2359UTC 14th May 2010  Good Luck!
[19:18] <akgraner> Remember those great sponsors I was talking about a minute ago – Many thanks have to go to  Canonical, Linux Pro, Ubuntu Use, private contributors, and most especially ZaReason for their generous netbook and USB necklace which by the way will go to the community choice winner of the competition.
[19:19] <akgraner> Ubuntu User I meant
[19:19] <akgraner> Again  - community participation  - ZaReason is an Ubuntu based Business and we want to help promote those businesses as well.
[19:19] <akgraner> [slide 11]
[19:20] <akgraner> this slide is all about some of our printable resources
[19:20] <akgraner> We also have many talent team members who contribute unselfishly to out resources page.
[19:20] <akgraner> s/out/our
[19:20] <akgraner> It is always helpful when giving talks, conferences, fest etc to have material about a project you can share with others.   This is some of those resources.
[19:21] <akgraner> I never thought I would be the “poster child” for a women's group  - but someone (elky) thought it was a good idea.
[19:21] <akgraner> Here are some other folks who helped with these resources:
[19:21] <akgraner> Original Logo by: Troy Sobotka
[19:21] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Project Poster and
[19:21] <akgraner> Business Cards by: Melissa Draper
[19:21] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Project Flier by:
[19:21] <akgraner> Elizabeth Krumbach and Nuhaa All Bakry
[19:22] <akgraner> and as you can see it is a collaborative effort on the part of many - which is fantastic
[19:23] <akgraner> We are always looking for more new and creative resources to help get the word out about the project. - Got an idea lets hear it.
[19:23] <akgraner> At then end of this session there will be a list of ways to get in touch with the team.
[19:23] <akgraner> [slide 12]
[19:24] <akgraner> The translation efforts have taken off like wildfire but we still need some more help in translating our wiki pages.
[19:25] <akgraner> currently there are
[19:25] <akgraner> 39 Languages
[19:25] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Project Wiki PagesTranslations have started in
[19:25] <akgraner> 4 Languages to date: Brazilian Portuguese, French, Italian, Spanish
[19:25] <akgraner> the Goal
[19:25] <akgraner> That all women in the Ubuntu Community have access and opportunity to read, use, and contribute to the Ubuntu Women Project Wikis and do so in their own language
[19:26] <akgraner> For more information on UW translation needs please see: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated
[19:26] <akgraner> [slide 13]
[19:26] <akgraner> Mentoring
[19:26] <akgraner> The Ubuntu-Women Mentors program allows new Ubuntu contributors to work together with experienced developers, translators, documentation writers, testers, and other skilled contributors.
[19:27] <akgraner> GOAL
[19:27] <akgraner> to encourage women and newcomers in Ubuntu to increase participation and contribute to tasks where they have no experience and are willing to learn.
[19:27] <akgraner> (notice we are not exclusive on who we mentor  - we are inclusive and as such open to all)
[19:28] <akgraner> We are Building on the Motto of:
[19:28] <akgraner> Each-One-Teach-One
[19:28] <akgraner> As you will see in just a few slides we are re-vamping and re-organizing this program  - but our end goals remail the same.  Are you currently a mentor in the Ubuntu or FOSS communities?  Are you and ubuntu women team member looking for a mentor if so let us know.
[19:28] <akgraner> #ubuntu-women-project on IRC.
[19:28] <akgraner> s/and/an
[19:29] <akgraner> [slide 14]
[19:29] <akgraner> This slide is just a illustration of how participation spiked various reasons after UDS-L and that spike in energy, participation, excitement is what helps the team accomplish the goals of the project.
[19:30] <akgraner> [slide 15]
[19:30] <akgraner> This slide shows the rise in people joining our launchpad team which is currently how we track registered team members,  the spikes also line up with participation.
[19:31] <akgraner> [slide 16]
[19:32] <akgraner> UDS-L was the 1st UDS where the Ubuntu Women Project had a series of sessions dedicated to the success and effectiveness of the Project in the Ubuntu Community
[19:32] <akgraner> Since it was founded in 2006 participation and growth have continued
[19:33] <akgraner> and in 2009 - serious planning for each cycle started to take shape
[19:34] <akgraner> with roadmaps, blueprints, and recognition in the great FOSS communities
[19:34] <ClassBot> maco asked: what is the slide 14 a graph of? It says "number of attendees", but what is meant by attendees? Attendees to what?
[19:35] <akgraner> ahh - sorry - the attendees are people who attended the Ubuntu Women Project IRC Meetings
[19:35] <akgraner> the monthly Team meetings
[19:35] <akgraner> (thanks for the question I'll fix the slide :-D )
[19:36] <akgraner> So what were those goals for the Lucid cycle?
[19:37] <akgraner> We had 3 Initial Goals which came out of UDS-L
[19:37] <akgraner> 1. Clarify the purpose of the #ubuntu-women channel
[19:37] <akgraner> 2. Create a safe (for lack of better word at the time of planning) space IRC channel
[19:37] <akgraner> 3. Appoint a leader of the Ubuntu Women team, complete with codified expectations around the role
[19:38] <akgraner> and as a team we accomplished all of these goals during the Lucid cycle
[19:39] <akgraner> For more information on the UDS_L Goals please go to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Roadmaps/Lucid/UbuntuWomen
[19:40] <akgraner> With UDS-M taking place next week  - we are looking forward to those goals
[19:40] <akgraner> [slide 17]
[19:41] <akgraner> Project Goals For Maverick:
[19:41] <akgraner> While I will list all of our ambitions the are only a few that will go on the blueprint
[19:41] <akgraner> the next one being one of them
[19:41] <akgraner> Elections
[19:41] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Team to Elect New Leaders
[19:42] <akgraner> Community
[19:42] <akgraner> Enrollment
[19:42] <akgraner> Online Team Activity
[19:42] <akgraner> Community Activity/Event
[19:42] <akgraner>  
[19:42] <akgraner> Mentoring Program
[19:42] <akgraner> For Community  - we are going to focus on the mentoring program
[19:42] <akgraner> and if we accomplish this community goal we can add the others as needed
[19:43] <akgraner> Marketing and Resources
[19:43] <akgraner> This area is where most of our goals for the Maverick cycle will come from
[19:43] <akgraner> Re-design Ubuntu-Women.com website
[19:43] <akgraner>  
[19:43] <akgraner> Re-design Ubuntu Women Logo
[19:43] <akgraner> Ubuntu-women clothing
[19:43] <akgraner> Presentation at UDS -M -Ubuntu membership stats
[19:44] <akgraner> Ubuntu-Women Clothing is the only item under Marketing and resources that will not be listed on the Blueprint
[19:44] <akgraner> (however if someone wants to design a few things then go for it :-D)
[19:45] <akgraner> [slide 18]
[19:45] <akgraner> How Can you help?
[19:45] <akgraner> (Good question! - Glad you asked)
[19:46] <akgraner> Help Translate Ubuntu Women Wiki Pages
[19:46] <akgraner> Encourage Women in your LoCo Teams to get involved
[19:46] <akgraner> Ask Ubuntu Women Team Members to speak about the project to your Team/Group/Project
[19:47] <akgraner> Do you mentor in other areas of the Ubuntu Community – sign up become a mentor for the Ubuntu Women Project as well
[19:47] <akgraner> Invite Ubuntu Women Team members to speak at conferences/fests/etc
[19:47] <akgraner> (and not about the project specifically but about what they do for Open Source
[19:47] <akgraner> Help with Competitions – Know about a Competition that would work well with the goals of the team – suggest it.
[19:48] <akgraner> but that is just the tip of the iceberg - those are those things which at then end of this session you can go and do if you wanted :-)  (shameless hint there)
[19:49] <akgraner> [slide 19]
[19:49] <akgraner> Where you can find out more about the Ubuntu Women Project
[19:50] <akgraner> we have a few resources/tools
[19:50] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Website - http://www.ubuntu-women.org/
[19:50] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women IRC Channels on Freenode.net
[19:50] <akgraner> #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women-project
[19:50] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Mailing List - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-Women
[19:50] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Forum
[19:50] <akgraner> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=76
[19:50] <akgraner> as well as
[19:50] <akgraner> Ubuntu Women Team in Launchpad
[19:50] <akgraner> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-women
[19:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:51] <akgraner> are there any questions?
[19:52] <akgraner> if not
[19:52] <akgraner> [slide 19]
[19:52] <akgraner> Thank You!
[19:52] <akgraner> if you want to yak with me in future then I can be found
[19:53] <akgraner> IRC nick – akgraner
[19:53] <akgraner> Email: akgraner [ a t ] ubuntu [ d o t ] com
[19:53] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AmberGraner
 akgraner: you seem to be very well organized. Maybe you could give us a little background on yourself that would give us some insight on how you do it.
[19:54] <akgraner> I think I just don't know any better :-)
[19:54] <akgraner> nah
[19:54] <akgraner> I am a busy mom with 2 teenagers and a husband who's job has *always* caused him to travel for the last 18 years
[19:55] <akgraner> and running an efficient household  - you have to be organizer  (though I fall short a lot but I try )
[19:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:56] <akgraner> I try to plan my day looking forward  the night before
[19:56] <akgraner> housework in the mornings - ubuntu stuff til the kids get home
[19:57] <akgraner> I think the Army also had something to do with planning - there was a motto there  - poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine
[19:57] <akgraner> so I try to plan
[19:58] <akgraner> QUESTION: what can be done to bring and encourage women to Ubuntu/Linux
[19:58] <akgraner> good question  - there is a lot that can be done - and there is no one way to do it
[19:59] <akgraner> I would say act locally think globally - meaning look in your "backyard" and those folks and what is happening around you and what their interest are
[19:59] <akgraner> but keep your eye on the bigger FOSS picture to see where people can get involved there as well
[20:00] <akgraner> Thanks everybody
[20:00] <akgraner> you all rock!
[20:00] <akgraner> If I didn't answer you pop into #ubuntu-women-project
[20:00] <akgraner> and ask away
[20:01] <czajkowski> Aloha ! I'm Laura Czajkowski one of 6 members on the loco council. Todays session with the help of leogg is going to be a general Q&A  session on the loco council what we do and how we can help you all.
[20:02] <czajkowski> If you've any Questions please ask and we'll do our best to try and answer them for you.
[20:03] <czajkowski> Firstly the loco council is made up of 6 members and we meet monthly and process team approvals and re approvals.
[20:03] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil
[20:03] <czajkowski> we're elected to help teams should they need any guidance
[20:03] <czajkowski> or run into difficulty.
[20:04] <czajkowski> we're often asked to mediate situations within teams and also to help run ideas past .
[20:04] <czajkowski> Any questions so far?
[20:04] <czajkowski> Does everyone know about the loco council ?
[20:04] <ClassBot> pleia2 asked: I encounter a lot of teams who complain that their LoCo team is "too big" to really be "local" - how does the LoCo Council recommend we respond to this? What can we do to help folks who feel this way?
[20:04] <czajkowski> QUESTION: I encounter a lot of teams who complain that their LoCo team is "too big" to really be "local" - how does the LoCo Council recommend we respond to this?  What can we do to help folks who feel this way?
[20:05] <czajkowski> just because a team is named as a loco doesnt mean all your activities have to happen in one place. Meetings, events, talks whatever you run are best run under one umbrella
[20:05] <czajkowski> that;s a great way to utilise the mailing list
[20:05] <czajkowski> the wiki and website and if you use twitter/identi.ca
[20:06] <czajkowski> QUESTION: why are there no non ubuntu (e.g. kubuntu) approved LoCos? Is there a chance that there will be a non ubuntu LoCo and if not why?
[20:06] <czajkowski> I've never heard of these before to be honest. I'm sure if someone tabled a discussion we could look into it
[20:07] <czajkowski> Ubuntu is a massive communtiy
[20:07] <czajkowski> which welcomes all variations under the umbrella
[20:08] <czajkowski> so I'd say have events under the one team and spread the word that way
 QUESTION: How does Ubuntu feel about people recommending other distros to people at a Loco meeting? And/or talking about other distros (for example, on a slow day, when there aren't many Ubuntu-specific questions)
[20:09] <czajkowski> that's not really a LoCo council question, but healthy discussion is good and it's about choice and showing how open source works, obviously if it's an Ubuntu event we'd like to showcase ~Ubuntu at these events
[20:09] <czajkowski> so moving onto more LocO council issues
[20:09] <czajkowski> we have the Approval Process
[20:09] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamApprovalGuidelines
[20:10] <czajkowski> Teams can apply for approval and create a wiki
[20:10] <czajkowski> many have done this and have been approved
[20:10] <czajkowski> some have issues - DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN MAIL US ASKING FOR US TO GO THROUGH YOUR APPLICATION BEFORE THE MEETING
[20:10] <czajkowski> this would help both the team and meeting time wise
[20:10] <czajkowski> many teams do not use this facility
[20:10] <czajkowski> we can give you pointers
[20:11] <czajkowski> photos of events are worth a thousand words on an application
[20:11] <czajkowski> every team after 2 years will now go through a procedure called Re Approval process
[20:11] <czajkowski> same thing, you attend an IRC meeting, once a wiki has been created and we look at the work the team has done over a 2 year period
[20:12] <czajkowski> this is a new thing and was only started in karmic cycle
[20:12] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
[20:12] <czajkowski> this is just to help teams who may have lost their footing along the way
[20:12] <czajkowski> and who were once active we can give them a helping hand
[20:13] <czajkowski> how it was done on the last cycle was 30 teams were randomly picked who were over 2 years were accessed
[20:13] <czajkowski> QUESTION: I am a bit confused about the re-approval process is this for every one or just teams that LP membership is about to expire?
[20:13] <czajkowski> It's for offical approved teams
[20:14] <czajkowski> does that make sense??
[20:14] <czajkowski> So team reports
[20:14] <czajkowski> team reports really should be done by all teams,
[20:15] <czajkowski> if you have an irc meeting, a meet up, talk, gathering, hold an event
[20:15] <czajkowski> write it down in the monthly report
[20:15] <czajkowski> this is a great way for you to keep track of your events for your approval or re approval
[20:15] <czajkowski> Many teams are not doing reports :( this makes us sad
[20:16] <czajkowski> it's also a way for us to see what teams may need help. if for months they've run events and all of a sudden stop, they we can see if we can help them
[20:16] <czajkowski> I've started to run - well one so far a LoCo health check. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck
[20:17] <czajkowski> so it's another chance to meet the loco council and ask questions that maybe you don't know or want more details on.
[20:17] <czajkowski> I'll also hopefully be asking members of other development teams in to do a Q&A session to encourage more discussion betweetn community and other areas
[20:18] <czajkowski> Any questions?
[20:19] <czajkowski> 20:18 < MarkDude> QUESTION: problem solving with locos, leaders members, etc?  How does it work?
[20:19] <czajkowski> at times in the past, we've had members of teams mail us with issues regarding loco team leaders
[20:19] <czajkowski> we've listened to them
[20:19] <czajkowski> and then we contact the team leader and see how we can fix the issue
[20:20] <czajkowski> in some cases for example, it could be a case of the team leader having left the team and not said anything which makes running the team more difficult
[20:20] <czajkowski> in other cases it could be a case of people just not working together with one another
[20:20] <czajkowski> we try and mediate
[20:20] <czajkowski> 20:20 < mhall119> QUESTION: How are things decided within the LC?  Is is majority rule, consensus?  How is deliberation done?
[20:21] <czajkowski> we chat really, and work on things via email and irc.
[20:22] <czajkowski> I'm rather new at this :) I'm on the council since November and since then we've worked on things as a team. we discuss items back and forth. Coming to an outome
[20:22] <czajkowski> I think paultag itnet7_lernid would agree with that
[20:23] <czajkowski> we do split items up
[20:23] <czajkowski> I don't speak Spanish for example and if a team mails us in Spanish, someone would reply to them in Spanish and in English
[20:23] <czajkowski> we share the workload
[20:24] <czajkowski> Any other Questions/thoughts/Comments
[20:24] <czajkowski> MarkDude: did that make sense?
[20:25] <czajkowski> I would hope if teams had issues with team leaders they did try and solve it before they came to us,
[20:25] <czajkowski> but I've no problem in helping anyone if they need it
[20:25] <czajkowski> there is also the leadership code of conduct
[20:25] <czajkowski> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
[20:25] <czajkowski> 20:24 < mhall119> QUESTION: Besides team reapprovals, what plans does the LC have for the Maveric cycle?
[20:25] <czajkowski> ohhhh good question!
[20:26] <czajkowski> I really want to work on getting feedback from community to canonical in a more productive manner hence why I've started the health check, which the wiki needs some love on
[20:27] <czajkowski> I'd like to help teams help themselves before it gets to the point of internal conflict so setting some basic guidelines
[20:27] <czajkowski> what teams should do to helpthemselves
[20:27] <czajkowski> 1) monthly meetings - publish the results on the wiki and on mailing list
[20:27] <czajkowski> 2) share duties, rotate roles
[20:28] <czajkowski> a really good idea is also internal mentoring, showing other people how to do things
[20:28] <itnet7> Definitely
[20:28] <czajkowski> there is no point in you being the only admin on the mailing list , if you go away, nobody else knows what to do or how to do it
[20:29] <czajkowski> so these kinda of things help teams to do some basic house keeping
[20:29] <czajkowski> Sharing roles within the team is advisable
[20:29] <itnet7> We have been having a lot of diverse issues lately, so we are trying to work through them and proactively show others how to avoid these issues
[20:29] <czajkowski> do not have 1-2 team in charge of any one job if at all possible, have more!
[20:30] <czajkowski> if you have one admin on wiki/mailing list/website then you're doing something wrong
[20:30] <czajkowski> you can quote me on that!
[20:30] <czajkowski> 20:29 < mhall119> QUESTION: I've been involved in the loco directory, what other tools can be made to help locos?
[20:30] <czajkowski> mhall119: you and others have done a great job on the loco directory
[20:31] <czajkowski> I wrote back when I met keffie_jayx_ at UDS Karmic about a feature where we create an event, then mail that to the teams. I still think that would be great
[20:31] <czajkowski> I think we need to get teams to use it fully, then do a feedback session at some point
[20:32] <czajkowski> what would you like to see the LC do to help you
[20:32] <czajkowski> There are 6 of us. Surely we can help you and your teams
[20:33] <czajkowski>  mhall119> QUESTION: I'm not sure if you've been involved or not, but status.net has setup a domain for Ubuntu locoteams, what are the plans for that?
[20:33] <czajkowski> I've not been involved in it
[20:33] <czajkowski> is it closed source ?
[20:34] <czajkowski> possibly if folks want us to use it, asking for input would be good, if there is a session at UDS I'm sure we'll take part in it if we can
[20:35] <czajkowski> ANy other thoughts?
[20:35] <czajkowski> Did you know you can email us at any time,
[20:35] <czajkowski> we are on IRC but not all of us run screen sessions
[20:36] <czajkowski> please be patient if you do mail us , 3 of us are in the EU, the others are in the states and south america, so allow for time zones
[20:37] <czajkowski> again if status.net is open source, and folks want us to use it I'm sure we could look into it.
[20:39] <czajkowski> QUESTION: What communication/interaction does the LC have with Canonical?
[20:40] <czajkowski> SOmetimes people mail jono re issues when they could just as easily mail us before hand or may not know about mailing is. this is fine. WE look into the issues and keep jono updated of teams and issues
[20:40] <czajkowski> so we do mail canonical folks when we need answers or issues come to light
[20:40] <czajkowski> canonical folks are very helpful and offer help when we need it
[20:41] <paultag> Ubuntu and Canonical are no longer as strongly tied as they used to be -- That's why Mark Shuttleworth stepped down as CEO of Canonical, and as czajkowski said, they are very helpful and willing to aid Ubuntu :)
[20:42] <czajkowski> mhall119> QUESTION: How about regular communication?  Does the LC report on community activities/health so that they know what's going on?
[20:42] <czajkowski> There was a time when there were no reports going to the UWN - I've tried to rectify that
[20:43] <czajkowski> and post the outcomes of the meetings to the mailing list
[20:43] <czajkowski> again if we're pushing for loco teams to do reports
[20:43] <czajkowski> we need to lead by example
[20:44] <itnet7> Monthly reports are very important, they motivate new teams
[20:44] <itnet7> and encourage everyone
[20:44] <czajkowski> they also give other teams ides on events to run
[20:45] <czajkowski> Anything else?
[20:47] <czajkowski> less than 15 mins left?
[20:48] <czajkowski> itnet7: paultag any other comments
[20:48] <paultag> I think you've covered it quite well czajkowski :)
[20:48] <itnet7> I think it's important for everyone to note that the LC is here for all of you, if you have any issue and would like for us to weigh in please ping us in ubuntu-locoteams
[20:49] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil we have also this cycle made a massive effort to get our pages trasnlated
[20:49] <czajkowski> if you can help here that'd be great
[20:49] <paultag> QUESTION: what we need to be an approved loco team? (i mean what we should do with community, instead of getting approved on wiki)
[20:49] <czajkowski> You can reach the council via mail: loco-council<at>lists.ubuntu.com
[20:49] <czajkowski> yltsrc: run events, meet ups, spread the Ubuntu word
[20:50] <czajkowski> document these things, take photos
[20:50] <czajkowski> run an Ubuntu hour
[20:50] <czajkowski> which is meeting up with other team memebrs
[20:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[20:51] <czajkowski> yltsrc: if you need a hand do let us know
[20:52] <czajkowski> So teams use twitter/facebook/identi.ca this is fine, using the ububtu logo is fine in this case as we had an issue yesterday where a team leader said it was not ok
[20:52] <czajkowski> it is
[20:54] <czajkowski> yltsrc> QUESTION: where i can read about usual loco processes (in team) and howto manage loco successfully?
[20:55] <czajkowski> yltsrc: this is something I hope to work on for the next cycle
[20:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[20:56] <paultag> can you hone in on what aspect yltsrc?
[20:56] <czajkowski> yltsrc> QUESTION: and where i do start? :)
[20:56] <czajkowski> yltsrc: where are you from ??
[20:57] <czajkowski> yltsrc: I'll give you a hand after this session and help you set up if you like
[20:58] <czajkowski> finally - http://loco.ubuntu.com/
[20:58] <czajkowski> loco directory
[20:58] <czajkowski> please use it and give feedback to the developers!
[20:58] <czajkowski> it's GREAT!
[20:59] <czajkowski> ok that's it folks
[20:59] <czajkowski> thanks for taking part
[21:02] <akgraner> Great Session!
[21:02] <akgraner> Thank you czajkowski itnet7 et all! :-)
[21:02] <akgraner> That concludes Open Week for today
[21:03] <akgraner> Hope to see everyone back at 1500 UTC tomorrow :-)
[23:07] <qwebirc70664> ..