[00:09] <epkugelmass> where is the appropriate place to file a bug for a kernel/Xorg segfault?
[00:13] <lun4tic> hallo again... *sing*
[00:13] <lun4tic> XD
[00:19] <lun4tic> man i hate 24h disconnections
[00:20] <lun4tic> someone still awake?
[00:20] <ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass: I suggest you ask in #ubuntu i am not sure
[00:20] <epkugelmass> thanks ubuntujenkins. i did get some help.
[00:21] <ubuntujenkins> lun4tic: whats your question i will try and solve it
[00:22] <lun4tic> no question just checking if someone is there ^^
[00:23] <ubuntujenkins> ok I am off to bed godbyk will be up soon hopefully night all
[00:24] <lun4tic> n8
[00:41] <epkugelmass> godbyk, does the install-pkgs.sh work on lucid?
[00:41] <epkugelmass> i have texlive installed, but the script says i don't
[00:42]  * ubuntujenkins can't sleep
[00:43] <ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass: how did you install texlive
[00:43] <epkugelmass> aptitude install texlive-full
[00:44] <ubuntujenkins> thats where you are going wrong, the packages don't work. You have to install it by following the instructions at the end of http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors
[00:44] <ubuntujenkins> if you follow that it should work fine :)
[00:44] <epkugelmass> but it's texlive 2009...what's the problem? I would rather stick to the package system than go off installing random things
[00:45] <ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass: basically the packages are too old and there is stuff missing. I am working on the stuff to fix it but that will not be ready for a couple of weeks.
[00:45] <epkugelmass> ubuntujenkins, the website says "The Ubuntu Manual requires TeX Live 2009. The version of TeX Live in the Ubuntu 9.10 repositories is 2007. In Lucid, there are packages for TeX Live 2009."
[00:46] <ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass: thats a typo on the website
[00:46] <epkugelmass> alright
[00:46] <epkugelmass> thanks
[00:46]  * ubuntujenkins files a nug
[00:46] <ubuntujenkins> no problem
[00:47] <ubuntujenkins> *bug
[00:52]  * ubuntujenkins goes to bed third time lucky hopefully
[00:52] <ubuntujenkins> wish i could get to sleep
[01:08] <ubuntujenkins> we have over 60000 downloads
[05:49] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk, hi
[06:15] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: hey.
[06:16] <IlyaHaykinson> so, grr, new machine here, and for some reason it decided to let me install tex, but install-pkgs script didn't detect it
[06:17] <godbyk> did you have it create the symlinks during install?
[06:17] <IlyaHaykinson> now i re-ran the tex installation script, and it's redownloading everything (on my slower home connection)
[06:17] <IlyaHaykinson> ah. ok, i figured that may have been my mistake.
[06:17] <IlyaHaykinson> i am doing it now.
[06:17] <godbyk> ok
[06:17] <IlyaHaykinson> in the new re-download.
[06:17] <godbyk> you can create them after the fact; it's just a bit more difficult.
[06:17] <IlyaHaykinson> is there a shortcut (i.e. i could cancel the current download and symlink manually)?
[06:18] <godbyk> If everything's been installed already, then yeah.
[06:18] <godbyk> apt-get install perl-tk
[06:18] <godbyk> then run 'tlmgr --gui'
[06:18] <godbyk> you will have to provide the full path to tlmgr
[06:19] <godbyk> on my machine, the non-symlinked file is /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf/scripts/texlive/tlmgr.pl
[06:19] <godbyk> oh, you'll need to run tlmgr using sudo, too.
[06:19]  * godbyk should set up yet another bot to handle tex-related questions. 
[06:19]  * godbyk keeps forgetting all the niggling details when he doesn't have to do this too often.
[06:23] <IlyaHaykinson> sweet, this helped. thank you.
[06:24] <godbyk> did you get the symlinks created okay?
[06:48] <IlyaHaykinson> yup. all good.
[06:51] <godbyk> 'kay. cool
[07:10]  * IlyaHaykinson sent an email to the technical writers mailing list, asking about tips about user research and audience analysis
[07:10] <godbyk> there's a technical writers mailing list?
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> nod
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> http://www.techwr-l.com/
[07:12] <godbyk> cool
[07:19] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, gnite. tty tomorrow at the meeting.
[07:23] <godbyk> g'night!
[07:35] <ubuntujenkins> morning o/
[07:38] <godbyk> morning, ubuntujenkins
[08:18] <jcisio> hello
[08:18] <godbyk> Hey, jcisio.
[08:18] <jcisio> godbyk, I tried compile several times, but get no index or glossaries
[08:19] <godbyk> I know.
[08:19] <godbyk> It's a problem I'm still trying to solve.
[08:19] <jcisio> do you have any input?
[08:19] <godbyk> Could you rephrase the question? :)
[08:20] <jcisio> Any idea why it doesn't work?
[08:20] <godbyk> It has to do with the makeglossaries and xindy programs.
[08:20] <godbyk> (Well, makeglossaries calls xindy, too, so it's mostly xindy, I think.)
[08:20] <jcisio> I was trying to add the 4th xelatex continously in Makefile, obviously it didn't work
[08:27] <jcisio> what does xindy do godbyk ?
[08:27] <godbyk> xindy is the program that generates the index and glossary.  (mostly handles sorting of entries.)
[08:28] <jcisio> I try compile ubuntu-manual-vi.tex myself without success
[08:28] <godbyk> I suspect the issue is with setting the appropriate language (and sorting system), but I'm not sure yet.
[08:28] <godbyk> I'll be with you in about 15 minutes.
[08:28] <godbyk> (watching the end of a video)
[08:30] <jcisio> ok
[08:33] <jcisio> time to go to school, g9 godbyk_
[08:43] <ubuntujenkins> see you all later
[12:38] <lun4tic> hi, is there an "update" command for the bzr repo?
[12:39] <lun4tic> so that i don't have to download the whole thing again
[12:39] <lun4tic> just the changes
[12:43] <hemanth> lun4tic, bzr pull
[12:46] <lun4tic> hemanth: thx
[12:46] <hemanth> lun4tic, np
[12:54] <lun4tic> "po4a::tex: Kann nicht von einer Datei lesen, ohne einen Dateinamen zu haben" hm... whats wrong? it says "cant read from file without having the filename"
[12:54] <lun4tic> trying to "make ubuntu-manual-de.pdf"
[12:54] <lun4tic> texlive 2009 on lucid
[12:55] <godbyk> I'm not sure.
[12:55] <godbyk> I don't get that error on mine.
[12:55] <lun4tic> " at /usr/bin/po4a-translate line 229"
[12:55] <lun4tic> the line after the error
[12:56] <lun4tic> i use the ubuntu packages
[12:56] <lun4tic> because i had them allready installed and the ubuntu-manual website says lucid has the texlive 2009 allready
[12:57] <godbyk> lun4tic: Ah, well, those the texlive packages in ubuntu don't work (regardless of what the website may suggest).
[12:57] <godbyk> lun4tic: but the error is coming from po4a-translate which is in the po4a package (which is what I'm using)
[13:21] <ubuntujenkins> hello
[13:24] <lun4tic> hm.. it complains about ccicons.sty
[13:24] <lun4tic> is there a package for that allready?
[13:24] <lun4tic> google cant find any package that has this file
[13:24] <ubuntujenkins> lun4tic: the script in the pkgs folder of the branch installs it for you
[13:25] <lun4tic> that script doesn't recognize my texlive 2009 packages -.-
[13:26] <godbyk> lun4tic: you can't use the texlive packages from ubuntu. you MUST install them from upstream.
[13:26] <lun4tic> Checking TeX Live version...Status: install ok installed
[13:26] <lun4tic> No version of TeX Live was detected.
[13:26] <lun4tic> :(
[13:26] <ubuntujenkins> +1 to godbyk
[13:26] <lun4tic> why? if it is the same system
[13:26] <godbyk> It's not.
[13:27] <godbyk> The lucid packages are too old
[13:27] <lun4tic> -.-
[13:27] <godbyk> and they're missing things we require (like ccicons)
[13:27] <lun4tic> so i guess i'll stick to the "beta" pdf... ^^
[13:28] <lun4tic> building stuff with having to download >2gig on this "high speed" line is not so funny...
[13:28] <lun4tic> can someone build me the current german version and mail it to me?
[13:31] <godbyk> lun4tic: I just fixed up the german version a couple hours ago (some bad tex-related bugs in the translations).
[13:31] <godbyk> let me build the pdf and upload it for ya.
[13:31] <godbyk> gimme a few minutes.
[13:32] <lun4tic> are the screenshots in the pdf then?
[13:32] <godbyk> they will be, I think.
[13:33] <lun4tic> i know some people who could also read it through (no geeks or technicians so they're good "gunea pigs" ... ;-) ) but they keep asking about missing pictures ^^
[13:34] <lun4tic> guinea*
[13:38] <godbyk> lun4tic: Can you look over the suggested translations I made and approve them if I haven't mucked something up?
[13:38] <godbyk> Then I can download the latest translations so the german doc will compile successfully.
[13:44] <lun4tic> hm.. so if it says "plain text" all of the "commands" are just formatting info right?
[13:45] <godbyk> Sometimes they're formatting info and sometimes they do more than that.
[13:46] <ubuntujenkins> hmm the package clisp is causing me a problem xindy depends on it but clisp will not install properly
[13:47] <c7p> godbyk thank you for the corrections on the greek translation
[13:47] <godbyk> c7p: You're welcome. They can be difficult to track down sometimes.
[13:47] <godbyk> c7p: Please read through the translations I modified to make sure I didn't screw anything up along the way.
[13:47] <c7p> godbyk: yes
[13:48] <jcisio> when I work on Launchpad, there're suggestions that I don't know where do they come from, like this
[13:48] <lun4tic> godbyk: if the suggestion and the current translation is exactly the same but the suggestion is yours should i confirm yours because of some corrections you've made?
[13:49] <jcisio> Suggestions ubuntu-manual in Ubuntu Manual lucid-e1 by Kevin Godby  2 hours ago
[13:49] <jcisio> ah someone is asking the same question
[13:49] <godbyk> lun4tic: As long as I haven't screwed up the language itself, it should be fine. I only touch the translations when I'm trying to fix bugs in the LaTeX coding.
[13:50] <godbyk> jcisio: I went through a couple languages earlier to fix some bugs that were preventing the PDF from compiling.
[13:50] <lun4tic> i found some mistakes
[13:50] <lun4tic> but could be somebody who changed the sentence while he was building the sentence in his mind... ^^
[13:51] <lun4tic> a word to much and stuff like that
[13:52]  * ubuntujenkins is back to lectures talk later
[13:52] <jcisio> ah yes, ok thanks
[13:52] <lun4tic> "\glspl{applet}" <-- what about plurals in that case?
[13:53] <lun4tic> even in the english version there should normally be "applets"
[13:53] <godbyk> lun4tic: leave that as is, but in the \newglossaryentry for 'applet', add a 'plural={applets}'
[13:53] <lun4tic> cause the sentence is talking about applets that can be put in panels
[13:53] <godbyk> the 'pl' part tells latex to use the plural form.
[13:53] <lun4tic> ok
[13:54] <godbyk> So in the English version, \gls{applet} = applet, and \glspl{applet} = applets.
[13:54] <lun4tic> maybe it is allready plural then
[13:54] <lun4tic> but i didn't know glspl
[13:54] <lun4tic> i don't have a built pdf to verify
[13:54] <godbyk> right.
[13:54] <lun4tic> so i'm just guessing ^^
[13:57] <jcisio> OMG, forgot about the meeting at 22h local time, I have an appointment at 20h15 for Iron Man 2!!!
[13:57] <godbyk> I'd say your first meeting takes priority, jcisio. ;-)
[13:59] <jcisio> well, film length: 124min, should be 30 min late though
[13:59] <jcisio> godbyk: normally the duration of the meeting is how long?
[14:00] <godbyk> We try to stay inside of an hour, but almost always fail.
[14:00] <godbyk> This meeting is covering a lot of ground, too, so we'll probably be around for a while.
[14:01] <jcisio> ok thanks, so I'll try to be ontime, it's 3am in Vietnam, so I don't think there are other translator in my language
[14:03] <c7p> i have got a problem with the compilation of the manual
[14:03] <c7p> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/428938/
[14:04] <godbyk> c7p: I think I fixed a bunch of those in the translations a few hours ago, but there may still be a couple I missed.
[14:04] <jcisio> I sometimes have that, too
[14:04] <godbyk> c7p: If you can review the translation changes I made and approve them, I'll update the .po files in the repository and we can try recompiling it.
[14:04] <c7p> also there are no screenshots on the pdf
[14:04] <jcisio> the "LaTeX Warning: Label(s) may have changed. Rerun to get cross-references right." message, sometimes I must delete the output pdf and rerun make command
[14:05] <godbyk> c7p: The screenshots only get added to the PDF after all the screenshots for that language have been taken.
[14:05] <godbyk> http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/
[14:05] <godbyk> You can see the progress of screenshots at that site.
[14:05] <c7p> el	Progress: 100%
[14:06] <c7p> we have uploaded all the screenshots :/
[14:06] <godbyk> c7p: You're right. It looks like those screenshots are in the repository already.
[14:06] <godbyk> c7p: So they'll show up automatically when I can successfully compile the PDF.
[14:07] <c7p> godbyk: ok :)
[14:07] <humphreybc> all go in here!
[14:07] <vish> humphreybc: for elementary , we have several members still waiting in the queue ;)
[14:07] <vish> oops! late line :/
[14:08] <vish> humphreybc: heh , had typed that when we were talking about the members and seem to have forgotten :/
[14:08] <godbyk> heh. nice.
[14:08] <godbyk> we should hold further ayatana-ux discussion in #ayatana, probably.
[14:08] <humphreybc> vish: huh what who now?
[14:09] <humphreybc> godbyk, jar
[14:09] <vish> humphreybc: when we were talking about rejecting memebers to ayatana UX team
[14:10] <humphreybc> ohh right
[14:10] <humphreybc> yeah
[14:10] <humphreybc> I felt real bad
[14:10] <vish> godbyk: i had suggested that to mpt, but i think -meeting sounds more official
[14:11] <godbyk> oh, I meant right now if we wanted to continue the discussion or something.
[14:11] <vish> ah..
[14:11] <godbyk> *someone* may as well use it, right? :)
[14:11] <humphreybc> nothing to talk about?
[14:11] <humphreybc> we don't have any plans or anything
[14:11] <humphreybc> or any contributors or time to make much happen
[14:11] <vish> zilch!
[14:12] <godbyk> I feel so useless. :)
[14:12] <humphreybc> yeah
[14:13] <humphreybc> No doubt mpt, vish and I will talk about it over a beer at UDS.
[14:13] <humphreybc> the others can remote participate with a virtual beer in Runescape or something
[14:14] <vish> humphreybc: are you old enough to have beer? ;p
[14:14] <humphreybc> vish: I am insulted! Yes, yes I am. I'm 19 :)
[14:14] <humphreybc> I've had many beers
[14:14] <humphreybc> often too many
[14:14]  * vish thought the drinking age is 21 in NZ..
[14:14] <humphreybc> nah it's 18 here
[14:14] <godbyk> it's 21 in the US
[14:14] <humphreybc> 18 in belgium too
[14:14] <humphreybc> vish: how old are you?
[14:14] <vish> godbyk: yea , i get those two confused
[14:15] <vish> humphreybc: heh , pretty old ;)  28
[14:15]  * godbyk is older!
[14:15] <humphreybc> 28! you're practically a pensioner
[14:15] <vish> godbyk: thanks that makes me feel better ;)
[14:16] <godbyk> I'm 31.
[14:16] <c7p> I think I'm the smallest here :P
[14:16] <humphreybc> godbyk's OLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLD
[14:16] <nisshh> 18
[14:17] <nisshh> humphreybc: lol
[14:17] <jcisio> I thought that I was the oldest
[14:17] <humphreybc> nisshh is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNG
[14:17] <humphreybc> nah pretty sure popey claims that in this channel
[14:17] <humphreybc> :P
[14:17] <nisshh> lol, humphreybc your only 19 :)
[14:17] <humphreybc> <3 you popey
[14:17] <nisshh> or 18 i cant remeber
[14:18] <popey> 38
[14:18] <popey> Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooold
[14:18] <humphreybc> I be 20 in a month. I feel old.
[14:18]  * godbyk breathes a sign of relief.
[14:18] <vish> \o/
[14:18] <godbyk> :-P
[14:18] <humphreybc> popey's gonna be middle aged soon
[14:18] <humphreybc> how daunting
[14:18] <humphreybc> :P
[14:18]  * humphreybc feels like he's going to get a kick from popey at UDS
[14:19] <c7p> humphreybc:lol
[14:19] <popey> nahhh
[14:19] <vish> popey: lets do it pls ;)
[14:19] <popey> I'm susprisingly nice in person.
[14:19] <godbyk> humphreybc: You're young and spry -- you can probably outrun him.
[14:19] <popey> i dont run
[14:19] <popey> i throw things
[14:19] <humphreybc> popey: "I'm surprisingly nice in person." <<< I LOVE this quote.
[14:19] <c7p> haha
[14:19] <humphreybc> In fact, I'm going to tweet it now, I love it so much.
[14:20] <godbyk> Ooh, popey has missile projectiles. Nevermind. :)
[14:20] <nisshh> hehe
[14:20]  * humphreybc is also good at ducking
[14:20] <nisshh> meh!
[14:23]  * humphreybc really should go to bed
[14:23] <humphreybc> UMP meeting in like, 6 and a half hours
[14:23] <humphreybc> grr!
[14:23]  * nisshh is staying up till 4am!
[14:23] <c7p> godbyk: from what i see on the pdf the chaplink generates sth like   " Chapter : Μάθετε
[14:23] <c7p> περισσότερα. ", so the 'Chapter' isn't translated and also the "Figure" near screenshots isn't translated too. what can we do about it ?
[14:24] <godbyk> c7p: Let me look into it for you.
[14:29] <popey> tis funny, many people have a completely different character when they get to uds humphreybc  :)
[14:32] <humphreybc> heh
[14:32] <humphreybc> let me know if I do and I'll fix it
[14:32] <humphreybc> :P
[14:37] <godbyk> c7p: String 993 appears to have an extra closing brace }.
[14:39] <c7p> i will check it
[14:41] <godbyk> I'm fixing a couple other strings, too.
[14:41] <c7p> If i can help you tell me how
[14:41] <nisshh> everyone: can anyone think of anything that needs to be setup to use bzr apart from installing bzr, checking for ssh key and telling bzr who you are?
[14:42] <nisshh> and also downloading the branch off of lp
[14:42] <godbyk> launchpad-login?
[14:42] <nisshh> godbyk: genius!
[14:42] <godbyk> someone mentioned that we'd left that step out of the instructions the other day.
[14:43] <nisshh> godbyk: right, ill put that in now
[14:44] <godbyk> 'kay.
[14:44] <c7p> also the latex installation isn't very comprehensive, without your help I don't know if would ever install these packages
[14:45] <godbyk> c7p: What snags did you hit during the latex installation?
[14:45] <godbyk> We should improve those instructions if we can, then.
[14:46] <c7p> godbyk: it was a bit weird cause it was the first time that installed a program from a terminal window like that
[14:46] <godbyk> yeah, their installer script is pretty much unlike anything else you'll ever come across.
[14:47] <godbyk> I should see if there's a way I can preconfigure the options for people.
[14:51] <jcisio> the texlive installer works with -gui, it seems
[14:52] <nisshh> does anyone want to go over my script before the meeting? would be great if you could!
[14:52] <godbyk> jcisio: it can, yeah.
[14:53] <godbyk> nisshh: what script?
[14:53] <godbyk> what meeting?
[14:53] <godbyk> what's happening?
[14:53]  * godbyk is so confused! :)
[14:53] <nisshh> godbyk: lol!
[14:53] <nisshh> Showing your age!
[14:54] <godbyk> heh
[14:54] <godbyk> trying to fix translations in 2-3 languages at once causes my brain to smoke.
[14:54] <nisshh> meh, no kidding!
[14:58]  * nisshh is watching 4 movies in a row till the meeting, ping him if you need him!
[15:02] <godbyk> lun4tic: Are you still around?
[15:02] <lun4tic> godbyk: yes
[15:02] <godbyk> Could you check on the strings in the german translation that still require approval?
[15:02] <godbyk> A couple that I did are latex-related bug fixes.
[15:03] <godbyk> but one of those had multiple suggestions, so I wasn't sure which to use.
[15:03] <godbyk> in any case, there was just a comma missing before the description= bit.
[15:16]  * popey switches to this channel before ops come along and tell us off for being in -meeting
[15:17] <godbyk> no doubt.
[15:18] <vish> popey: already tried that , but the topic in -meeting attracted folks from everywhere ;)
[15:18]  * humphreybc always gets told off on IRC.
[15:19] <vish> humphreybc: what happened to that -party kick ?
[15:19] <humphreybc> vish: I got banned
[15:20] <vish> lol!
[15:20] <humphreybc> sad, huh
[15:20] <popey> not surprising really
[15:20] <humphreybc> :D
[15:20] <godbyk> humphreybc is no longer allowed at the release parties. :)
[15:20] <humphreybc> pretty much
[15:20] <popey> yeah you will
[15:20] <popey> its not permanent
[15:20] <humphreybc> popey: in all the carnage, I guess not
[15:20] <popey> remember they get a lot of idiots saying stupid things in there
[15:20]  * humphreybc was just trying to take the load off the servers. *sniff*
[15:21] <popey> http://popey.com/blog/2008/04/23/Things_Not_To_Say/
[15:22] <humphreybc> answer for everything :P
[15:22] <popey> people say stupid stuff in the party channel and don't appreciate the consequences of their actions
[15:22] <popey> we get a lot of people posting urls which doesnt help at all
[15:22] <popey> it actually hurts the release
[15:22] <humphreybc> ya
[15:24] <humphreybc> I AM GOING TO BED
[15:24] <humphreybc> night!
[15:24] <popey> OKAY!
[15:24] <godbyk> He better be back in 2.5 hours for the ubuntu manual meeting!
[15:27] <jcisio> oh good
[15:27] <jcisio> I calculated wrong, minus 2h instead of plus 2h
[15:29] <jcisio> but not, meeting is in 5.5h
[15:29] <godbyk> ah, right.
[15:30] <godbyk> too many meetings today in too many time zones.
[15:30] <godbyk> the earlier meeting I attended was at 12 UTC, so that's why 12 was stuck in my head (which is 2.5 hours from now).
[15:30] <jcisio> ok
[15:31] <godbyk> though if anyone wants to meet with me in 2.5 hours to keep me awake, I'm okay with that. :)
[16:03] <jcisio> If I have a mass search/replace in po/vi.po, should I push it in bzr?
[16:04] <godbyk> jcisio: Ooh.. that's a question for dutchie.
[16:04] <godbyk> I do'nt know if launchpad is set to read in the po files right now.
[16:04] <godbyk> lemme look.
[16:05] <godbyk> well, it says it'll read the pot and po files (I think).
[16:05] <godbyk> I'd make a small change to the po file and upload it to the branch, then check to make sure it shows up in the translations in launchpad.
[16:05] <nisshh> godbyk: ill be up until the meeting, ill keep you company!
[16:05] <godbyk> if that works, then you can try your bigger change.
[16:05] <godbyk> nisshh: \o/
[16:06]  * nisshh needs sustenance to stay up that long though!
[16:06] <jcisio> ok I'll try the small change
[16:08] <jcisio> After some modification, now I can't find any error in my script :D
[16:55] <godbyk> I ran the build script and have uploaded the latest PDFs and log files to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/.
[16:58] <nisshh> godbyk: what is the name of the branch on launchpad we are using for dev now? how the hell is everything arranged?
[16:59] <godbyk> nisshh: Heh, right.
[16:59] <godbyk> nisshh: So lucid-e1 is where the translators are working. No one else gets to touch it.
[16:59]  * nisshh is confused as shit!
[16:59] <nisshh> right
[16:59] <godbyk> lucid-e2 is where new development for the second edition will take place.
[16:59] <godbyk> Don't start quite yet, though
[16:59] <nisshh> yep
[16:59] <nisshh> no, id just like to know
[16:59] <nisshh> so i dont screw anything up
[16:59] <godbyk> as I'm going to probably wipe that branch, create a new one in its place, and then copy over the files we want.
[17:00] <nisshh> the e2 branch?
[17:00] <godbyk> (Otherwise we have to keep pulling the full history of the branches which is headed toward 200 MB when we really only want < 1 MB of tex files)
[17:00] <nisshh> yea
[17:00] <nisshh> it was becoming a pain
[17:00] <godbyk> Then there's the maverick branch (which will probably get the same treatment as lucid-e2). it'll contain our work for the maverick edition.
[17:01] <nisshh> ok cool
[17:01] <godbyk> so translators, thorwil and his title pages, and minor tweaks by me are working on e1.
[17:01] <nisshh> thats cleared that up for me
[17:01] <godbyk> everyone else will be working on e2 soon.
[17:02] <nisshh> yea, i hope to talk to humphreybc about my contributions sometime tonight too
[17:02] <nisshh> wanna do more
[17:02] <nisshh> feel like i didnt do a very good job on e1
[17:05] <godbyk> well, we're hopefully going to redeem ourselves a little bit with e2. fix *all* the bugs and add back in a few of the sections we had to remove because they were unfinished.
[17:07] <nisshh> yea
[17:08] <nisshh> but i have got alot better with writing now, i was terrible at first but now i know how it should be and can fit it together nicely.
[17:21] <ubuntujenkins> evening all
[17:23] <nisshh> hey
[17:24] <ubuntujenkins> hello nisshh what are you up to?
[17:30] <nisshh> waiting for the meeting to start in a few hours
[17:32] <ubuntujenkins> I hopefully will have my project work done by then
[18:25] <lun4tic> godbyk: no suggestions left i guess
[18:51] <daker> hello @all
[18:51] <daker> hi ubuntujenkins
[18:51] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker
[18:51] <Red_HamsterX> Did I miss the meeting?
[18:52]  * Red_HamsterX un-idles after, like, a week.
[18:52] <ubuntujenkins> nope later tonight
[18:52] <Red_HamsterX> Yay.
[18:52] <dutchie> o/
[18:52] <ubuntujenkins> we have a few new quickshot members including a bot
[18:53] <Red_HamsterX> A lot can change in a week, apprently.
[18:53] <ubuntujenkins> +help
[18:53] <quickshotdevs> Useage: +<factoid> Examples: +website , +blueprint , +qssource , +involved , +question , +style , +use , +ppa , +quickshot , +code , +launchpad
[18:54] <ubuntujenkins> I think that is all the factoids on it, when we get new users we have to tell them lots of stuff and its the same each time. also if we need the bug link etc its all there
[18:57] <Red_HamsterX> That seems useful.
[18:58] <ubuntujenkins> +bug
[18:58] <quickshotdevs> You can file a Quickshot bug here https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot
[18:58] <ubuntujenkins> we can add more when we think of more
[19:08] <Red_HamsterX> Any Easter Eggs to be discovered?
[19:08] <Red_HamsterX> I dunno why I capitalised that.
[19:12] <ubuntujenkins> Easter Eggs in what?
[19:12] <Red_HamsterX> The bot.
[19:13] <ubuntujenkins> not that i know of its just supybot based
[19:18] <ubuntujenkins> sorry I haven't made any I will have to think of some
[19:18]  * ubuntujenkins actually reads the question properly
[19:23]  * ubuntujenkins no google search now looks like yahoo
[19:23] <daker> +style
[19:23] <quickshotdevs> The Quickshot code base tries to follow some conventions  a list of them is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/style .
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> hello everyone who is joining us for the meeting o/
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> its in half an hour
[20:29] <semioticrobotic> hi ubuntujenkins
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> hello semioticrobotic, hows you?
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> not too shabby.  yourself?
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> good, doing uni work
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> I'm about to do the same.  Just logged in to stake out a spot.  :)
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> I'll see you in a half-hour
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> see you in half an hout
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> *hour
[20:31] <semioticrobotic> are we in here?
[20:31] <semioticrobotic> or in the meeting room
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> #ubuntu-meeting
[20:31] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> thats what the wiki says
[20:31] <semioticrobotic> thanks
[20:31] <semioticrobotic> see you there
[20:35] <daker> ubuntujenkins,
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker
[20:40] <daker> meet my bot
[20:40] <ubuntujenkins> can we play in #quickshot?
[20:40] <daker> oki
[20:41] <daker> ?q
[20:43] <daker> ubuntujenkins, you are there ?
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> yep with your bot
[20:59] <nisshh> humphreybc: so is the meeting in here on in -meeting?
[20:59] <humphreybc> in meeting
[20:59] <nisshh> right
[21:17] <thorwil> godbyk: http://cometdemo.lshift.net:8080/greed/aa2be1f2/
[21:18] <godbyk> thorwil: cool.  not sure if rst has enough markup commands for us as is, though.
[21:19] <thorwil> godbyk: i just recalled this when Ben said "the translators want to be able to see their works faster" :)
[21:19] <godbyk> ah
[21:29] <c7p> hello
[21:29] <godbyk> Hey, c7p.
[21:29] <godbyk> We're in #ubuntu-meeting right now if you want to join us.
[21:29] <c7p> sure
[21:35] <godbyk> Hey, guys. We're meeting in #ubuntu-meeting if you'd care to join us.
[21:36] <godbyk> Some new site mockups you can take a look at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/sets/72157623882545941/
[22:39] <ubuntujenkins> I should have turned the highlighting of the word manualfor that meeting the jumping x-chat icon kept popping up on my project work
[22:39] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I was thinking the same thing.
[22:40] <c7p> hey godbyk do you have some time?
[22:40] <godbyk> c7p: sure, what's up?
[22:42] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: meet hemanth, he joined us last week and is going to help with the gui/program side
[22:43] <c7p> i compile the manual successful, although screenshots weren't in place and more importantly some letters on a word are in bold
[22:43] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: Red_HamsterX deals with the server stuff
[22:43] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, when I have some of the Quickshot server working, I'll start adding management scripts to PyRC, so it can do fun hardcoded things before we have proper web interface methods.
[22:43] <Red_HamsterX> Hi, hemanth. You're going to learn to hate my laissez-faire anti-micro-management style.
[22:43] <godbyk> c7p: For the bold text, are you referring to the headings?
[22:43] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: don't worry i can't attack the gui until after the 15th june
[22:44] <Red_HamsterX> I like having zero involvement in development, but coming in at the last moment and demanding things be rebuilt according to my dreams.
[22:44] <Red_HamsterX> (No, not really)
[22:44] <Red_HamsterX> (I'm just here for help if you need me)
[22:44] <humphreybc> I was thinking, since we're going to have the capability for videos on our website, could we use Quickshot to record screencasts too?
[22:44] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: we also have Sunk on the team helping with python backend stuff
[22:44] <c7p> godbyk: see the pdf to understand what I mean
[22:44] <humphreybc> just by using recordmydesktop
[22:44] <Red_HamsterX> (I'll be focused on the server side until I'm needed on the client)
[22:45] <c7p> godbyk: for example on page 7
[22:45] <Red_HamsterX> Why not just use recordmydesktop directly?
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: whats wrong with record mydesktop?
[22:45] <Red_HamsterX> Building that into Quickshot seems like unnecessary feature creep.
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: +1
[22:45] <godbyk> c7p: are you looking at the pdf on the builds server? or some other pdf?
[22:45] <Red_HamsterX> High-five!
[22:45] <godbyk> (just so I'm looking at the same one.)
[22:45] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: nothing, but we'd just need to make it easier for people to submit the videos
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: no problem with "(I'll be focused on the server side until I'm needed on the client)"
[22:45] <c7p> they are the same on the page formatting
[22:46] <humphreybc> Just an idea. We probably won't have that many videos at first anyway
[22:46] <Red_HamsterX> So Sunk will be focused on the GTK/Qt/whatever internals and general coding consistency, then?
[22:46] <humphreybc> So individually uploading them will be fin
[22:46] <humphreybc> fine*
[22:46] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I don't think we will make it in this time
[22:46] <Red_HamsterX> (I like working on that stuff, but more free time's good)
[22:46] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: that's fine. You guys are doing a rockin' job anyway!
[22:46] <humphreybc> right, i'm off. be back later :)
[22:46] <godbyk> c7p: okay, if you're referring to the headings, then the problem is that the headings font doesn't have bold greek letters, only bold latin letters at the moment.
[22:46] <Red_HamsterX> Bye, humphreybc~
[22:46] <ubuntujenkins> see yu humphreybc
[22:47] <godbyk> c7p: I'm going to have to find a different font to use for greek headings for now.
[22:47] <c7p> godbyk: ok :) ty
[22:47] <jcisio> Droid font, for example ;)
[22:48] <godbyk> jcisio: the droid fonts don't have nearly the character set support (last I looked) that we need.
[22:48] <jcisio> maybe, I didn't test in all languages, but they look good in some
[22:50] <godbyk> we did look at the droid fonts a few months ago and determined that they weren't suitable.
[22:50] <godbyk> I haven't looked at them lately, though, so some things may have changed.
[22:50] <godbyk> (I can't remember all the issues now, either, I'd have to check the logs.)
[22:50] <jcisio> godbyk, the builds on builds.um.org always use old version of translation?
[22:51] <godbyk> jcisio: those are using the translations that I downloaded earlier today (a few hours ago).
[22:51] <godbyk> I think the downloaded translations lag slightly behind, but they should be fairly up to date.
[22:52] <jcisio> I saw the revision date is 29 april
[22:53] <jcisio> and Vietnamese is 0.7% (actually 23%)
[22:53] <ChrisWoollard> It was a nice meeting. See you all later. Sleepy time now. Bye
[22:53] <c7p> bye
[22:54] <godbyk> jcisio: strange.. maybe my laptop was out of date when I ran the script. I'll pull and run it again.
[22:55] <jcisio> and index & glossary are always available when build with your laptop ;)
[22:56] <Red_HamsterX> daker, regarding the new Qs server interface, would it be sufficient for me to give you a simple header/body/footer template to work with for styling?
[22:56] <Red_HamsterX> Or would you like to have left and right panels in the body, too?
[22:57] <Red_HamsterX> (I won't actually be doing anything with them. I'd just like to build the general layout first, to make your job as easy as possible while I hack away at the logic)
[22:58] <c7p> daker could you fix this http://ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?lang=el
[22:58] <godbyk> jcisio: it looks like my laptop did have an older version of the repository -- sorry about that! I'm rebuilding them now. (it may take a while)
[22:58] <jcisio> ok thanks godbyk
[22:59] <godbyk> the index/glossary issue is usually due to typos in the \newglossaryentry lines in the translations (at least so far, that's been the case).
[23:01] <daker> back
[23:02] <daker> Red_HamsterX, can you explain pls ?
[23:02] <Red_HamsterX> I'm just thinking about how to build the includes structure.
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Standard header (title), body (content), footer (copyright) layout or something where there's a provision for information on the left and right sides of the body.
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Like a persistent navigation system.
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Actually, maybe I'll need to reflect on it a little and decide myself.
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Based on what the user actually needs to do.
[23:04] <Red_HamsterX> I'll try to keep the CSS simple and the repeated elements abstracted, though.
[23:08] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: this  updmap --enable Map ccicons.map command well its not finding the ccicons.map file that is in /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/map/dvips/ccicons any suggestions?
[23:09] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: run 'sudo texhash /usr/share/texmf-texlive' first
[23:09] <godbyk> then see if it can find the .map file.
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk that got it
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> now i have to make a package do that
[23:12] <jcisio> godbyk, for the translator, I think we need a one page cheatsheet for things not to be translated
[23:12] <c7p> there is a file
[23:12] <jcisio> style-guide is a bit long
[23:13] <godbyk> We could probably do that.
[23:14] <godbyk> Most of the translation bugs I see with regard to tex commands are in the \newglossaryentry (which is confusing enough to begin with!) and occasionally someone translates a command itself.
[23:14] <c7p> http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[23:15] <godbyk> otherwise, the bugs are usually just typos. misspelled commands, too many or to few braces, etc.
[23:15] <jcisio> yes from the style guide, cite only things those should not be translated
[23:16] <jcisio> many translator translates text in \gls though
[23:16] <godbyk> jcisio: pages 14 and 15 of the style guide show things that shouldn't be translated.
[23:16] <jcisio> yes I'm aware of that
[23:16] <godbyk> (a few things on page 14 *should* be translated, though.)
[23:17] <jcisio> yeah, that's one problem
[23:17] <jcisio> the second is that translator doesn't need to read all that
[23:17] <jcisio> (I must confess I read that document in less than 1 minutes)
[23:17] <godbyk> it's really more for reference.
[23:18] <jcisio> and missed the point about gls
[23:18] <godbyk> to quickly explain the basics of the latex syntax and which bits should and shouldn't be translated.
[23:18] <jcisio> there're much more translators than authors or editors
[23:19] <jcisio> so there should be a dedicated document, one or half page, for them
[23:19] <jcisio> all they want to know is: things should not be translated
[23:20] <jcisio> well, more than once, I through the style-guide.pdf, and I'm after how many of them read more than 1 page
[23:20] <godbyk> I think knowing a tiny bit of context is probably a good thing, too, though.
[23:21] <godbyk> I often have to fix errors that are made because the translators just don't understand the syntax. So they inadvertently break things.
[23:21] <jcisio> in Vietnamese there're dozen of translators
[23:21] <jcisio> me too
[23:21] <jcisio> that why I think about a dedicated guide for only translators
[23:21] <godbyk> Are there things the translators need to know that aren't in chapter 4 of the style guide?
[23:22] <godbyk> I'm not suggesting the translators need to read the entire guide -- on the contrary, I think they should be able to read chapter 4 and that should cover all they need to know.
[23:22] <jcisio> 1/ things must not be translated 2/ some notes (like dont change `` '' into " ")
[23:23] <godbyk> The quotes can be modified if your language uses some other quotation marks, though.
[23:23] <godbyk> If you use American-style quotes, then they should be left as is, however.
[23:23] <godbyk> (Or turned into their unicode counterparts.)
[23:24] <jcisio> it breaks, I think
[23:24] <godbyk> the builds should be updated now, btw.
[23:24] <godbyk> it shouldn't break.
[23:25] <jcisio> they replace those by “ ” and it breaks
[23:26] <godbyk> really?
[23:26] <jcisio> I fixed once when it threw an error on that
[23:27] <godbyk> it should generally work.
[23:27] <godbyk> but if your language uses American-style quotes, then leaving them as `` and '' will be fine.
[23:27] <jcisio> yes
[23:28] <jcisio> when copy/paste from OpenOffice, it is “ ”, or if they type themselves, "...", (can't distinguish " and '')
[23:29] <c7p> godbyk, i hope you find a good font for headings :), night all
[23:29] <godbyk> c7p: I'll try. :)
[23:29] <godbyk> g'night, c7p
[23:29] <c7p> godbyk, ty g night :)
[23:30] <godbyk> jcisio: Ah, well,  “ ” are fine, but " is evil and won't be correct.
[23:32] <jcisio> yes, they just don't know, I must say well sometimes they should copy/paste
[23:32] <jcisio> you had to fix at least once \Idots in Vietnamese ;)
[23:33] <godbyk> Yeah, that one was funny because I knew exactly why it occurred. :)
[23:33] <jcisio> godbyk, builds look good, and warning come back from 4 to 122 in en_US
[23:38] <godbyk> jcisio: yeah, I ran an extra script previously to filter out some of the warnings I don't care about.
[23:38] <godbyk> I haven't reran that script yet.
[23:38] <godbyk> most of the warnings are just about the margin notes getting moved around a bit.
[23:38] <jcisio> do you know how to fix those warnings?
[23:38] <godbyk> you can't.
[23:39] <jcisio> (I get that in my thesis, too ;))
[23:39] <godbyk> it's just latex doing its thing.
[23:39] <jcisio> too much warning
[23:39] <godbyk> generally it tells you that when it moves a marginpar to avoid running into another marginpar or to prevent it from running off the end of the page.
[23:40] <jcisio> these warnings happen only with complex layout?
[23:40] <jcisio> I saw a few documents compiled without any warning
[23:41]  * jcisio don't have time dig into LaTeX warnings
[23:41] <godbyk> yeah, usually when you have a more complex layout or when you use a lot of marginpar's.