[00:00] <Aquina> ...install "htop" and choose order by PID then use F5 to see tree mode.
[00:00] <mnemoc> searching for what in particular?
[00:01] <mnemoc> (I see the process trees)
[00:02] <mnemoc> what do you mean by "dependancies"? .... a parent of a bunch of processes?
[00:03] <Aquina> what does your application (where you have to save something) depend on?
[00:03] <Aquina> what does your application (where you have to save something) depend on?
[00:04] <mnemoc> it's hanging directly from pid 1
[00:04] <Aquina> perfect.
[00:05] <Aquina> So in theroy you can crsh gdm and reinit it afterwards. Honestly I've never done that, but...
[00:05] <Aquina> ...it's automatically done on runlevel changes. .-)
[00:06] <mnemoc> but if the X restarts all the processes on that DISPLAY will suicide... or not?
[00:06] <Aquina> Best bet (you *may* loose your work though): CTRL+ALT+1 (tty1), then enter sudo init 1, let it do...
[00:06] <mnemoc> i'm chatting with you from tty1 :)
[00:06] <Aquina> ...and then a prompt asks you what to do choose exit there or return or goto runlevel 2
[00:07] <Aquina> then you will be brought back to runlevel 2 and you can relogin a newly created gdm session on tty7 :-)
[00:07] <Aquina> That's the theory at least.
[00:07] <Aquina> Oh btw. the kill of gdm may take half a minute.
[00:08] <mnemoc> uhm
[00:08] <Aquina> Well... as I said you may loose data.
[00:08] <Aquina> Is it an OpenOffice document or your opened IDE?
[00:09] <bardo> thanks to all help, the solution for the 855 intel driver in my laptop was in the boot menu option "i915.modeset=1".
[00:10] <Aquina> Maybe there is an autosave and recovery on crash. That's at least the default for OpenOffice.org. In *that* case you can safely risk a kill.
[00:10] <mnemoc> gimp, gvim and terminator (tiled terminal) with several sshs
[00:10] <Aquina> sshs have no save the history is in the .basg_history files on the end.
[00:10] <Aquina> I will check GIMP save feature in case you tell me the version.
[00:11] <mnemoc> the one that comes in 10.04
[00:11] <mnemoc> i suppose it does
[00:11] <mnemoc> so runlevel 2 here is equivalent to the "classic" runlevel 5?
[00:11] <Aquina> yes
[00:12] <Aquina> Well.. 3 is classic, huh?
[00:12] <mnemoc> 3 is classic without X
[00:12] <Aquina> 4 and 5 for other stuff. I think in Fedora it's 3.
[00:12] <Aquina> oh
[00:12] <Aquina> Ah I think you're right.
[00:13] <Aquina> ah i cant fnd a hint on GIMP I'll try myself
[00:14] <mnemoc> so, if it don't return soon... it didn't work, and i sent the world to hell, and went to sleep :)
[00:14] <arthurjohnson> Is there still a runlevel with upstart?
[00:15] <Aquina> hm no recovyry after..
[00:15] <Aquina> ... kill (-4) ion GIMP for Xubuntu 8.04 LTS
[00:15] <Aquina> I think runlevels always exist.
[00:16] <Aquina> I will check.
[00:17] <Aquina> yes, upstart just replaces the bsd-style init.
[00:20] <mnemoc> Aquina: `init 1` "worked".... killed everthing and made my ttys ask me for auth again. init 2 doesn't start X, so I rebooted
[00:21] <mnemoc> weird bug... sad i couldn't collect the data
[00:21] <mnemoc> i'll go to sleep and try to recover some of the work
[00:22] <mnemoc> Aquina: thanks a lot for your effort, and time
[00:23] <mnemoc> good night :)
[00:28] <Aquina> init2 started X on 8.04 LTS and gdm too. :-(
[00:28] <Aquina> nite, mnemoc
[01:10]  * genii sips his coffee
[01:22]  * arthurjohnson sips his Dew Voltage
[03:24] <Darkthinker> have a question about non free driver and install of them,,  kinda knowelge about about freebsd and some linux but not xubuntu
[04:49] <intok> anybody good with intel socket 478 IGP graphics? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9227361#post9227361
[08:09] <opm595> hi all, could some tell me what the cmd is for Termainal. For the life of me I can't remember, just done a fresh install and want to add a shortcut. It's terminal-xfce4 or something  . .
[08:10] <opm595> Terminal in meant to say - I'll learn to spell one day :)
[08:10] <moetunes> isn't it   xfce4-terminal   ?
[08:17] <opm595> Spot on. Thanks heaps moetunes
[08:18] <moetunes> happy to help opm595 :]
[08:33] <opm595> Have fun, back later, dinner time here :) Seeya's!
[08:35] <handjob> Hi all. Yesterday i wasted so much time tring to set command line resolution in grub2/legancy. I've heard at grub's irc that respecting "vga=" parameters is broken  by default in 10.04. Is that true? If Yes, how can I fix this?
[08:38] <moetunes> handjob: I heard that too - haven't heard of a fix tho
[08:38] <handjob> Sad.
[08:38] <moetunes> prob have to wait for a grub update
[08:39] <handjob> Grub is ok, kernel isn't - that's what I have heard.
[08:40] <moetunes> kernel is it - shouldn't be too long for a fix then
[08:49] <handjob> How so. I am bit dissapointed - the update was more of an anal rape then new quality.
[08:52] <moetunes> it's a lts - a long view is taken afaik - it will be at its' best in a month or two
[08:53] <moetunes> handjob: if you think you can do better for no charge...
[08:53] <arossouw> anyone know what the cause could be for desktop panel and icons dissapearing when loggin in (Xubuntu 9.10)
[08:53] <arossouw> seen that on several pc's now
[08:56] <handjob> God damn i am switching back to debian ^^. Sorry but no idea.
[08:56] <moetunes> all you'll get with debian is old software
[08:58] <moetunes> arossouw: using compiz?
[08:59] <handjob> debian unstable = ubuntu?
[08:59] <moetunes> not quite handjob
[09:00] <handjob> Elaborate please.
[09:00] <arossouw> moetunes: not sure, how do you verify that, its a standard xubuntu 9.10 installation
[09:00] <arossouw> moetunes: if i move the home directory to another name and recreate it, it logs in
[09:00] <moetunes> arossouw: not enabled desktop effects or anything?
[09:01] <arossouw> moetunes: no, just standard installation
[09:01] <moetunes> arossouw: what dir?
[09:01] <moetunes> oops
[09:01] <arossouw> moetunes: i move /home/user to /home/user old, then mkdir /home/user , chown user:user /home/user, then everything is perfect
[09:02] <moetunes> arossouw: but is not right at next boot?
[09:02] <arossouw> moetunes: if i did that , it works perfectly even after reboot
[09:03] <moetunes> arossouw: something wrong in .config then would be my guess - try renameing just that folder and do a logout/login
[09:04] <arossouw> i'll try that on the next computer i see ,that has the same problem
[09:04] <arossouw> thx
[09:04] <moetunes> handjob: ubuntu works with upstream developers - debian takes progs as they come afaik
[09:05] <handjob> Oh. Thank You for information.
[09:07] <moetunes> seems a bit short sited to give up 'cause of one short term inconveience handjob  - but it is your choice
[09:09] <handjob> Yes, in fact i was joking - I just switchd back from debian to ubuntu for more pain. By the way there was more of short term inconveience after the update, but I don't want it to sound like whining.
[09:10] <handjob> moetunes, Does using Uvesafb or kms will affect my X session?
[09:11] <handjob> I am afraid it will.
[09:11] <moetunes> handjob: afaik those have the same issue as vga= ...
[09:11] <moetunes> just from what I noticed in passing
[09:13] <handjob> ...damn. Thx. Any idea how to change command line resolution? My screen is too big for work outside X with the "default" ressolution.
[09:13] <moetunes> on a tty?
[09:14] <handjob> Elaborate please, I am not following.
[09:14] <moetunes> well I don't know - you use ctrl+alt+f2 e.g. to get to a tty
[09:14] <moetunes> !tty
[09:15] <moetunes> there you go - last point
[09:16] <handjob> I am afraid I have tried that already.
[09:16] <handjob> But thank You anyway.
[09:17] <moetunes> as you said it is a kernel issue
[09:20] <handjob> I would like to try with uvesafb, however, it is pointless if it will affect also the X session and it will?
[09:21] <psycho_oreos> why uvesafb?
[09:22] <handjob> Does 9.10 have the same issue or is it only the latest kernel?
[09:22] <psycho_oreos> define latest
[09:22] <handjob> psycho_oreos, somebody sugested it to me and I am running out of alternative sollutions.
[09:23] <handjob> psycho_oreos, Good question. What kernel is shipped 9.10?
[09:23] <psycho_oreos> handjob, what are you trying to achieve apart from the fact that you want to use uvesafb as per someone's solution?
[09:24] <psycho_oreos> handjob, afaik its 2.6.32 which is not the latest (let alone latest-stable) from kernel.org
[09:24] <handjob> psycho_oreos, change of resolution outside (only outside) x enviroment.
[09:25] <psycho_oreos> handjob, and you require uvesafb? why not just set vesafb? i.e. vga=xxx
[09:25] <handjob> psycho_oreos, Afaik it won't affect the new kernel.
[09:26] <psycho_oreos> handjob, and which one is that? newest stable? or newest straight from git?
[09:27] <handjob> Wait, let me mount to check.
[09:28] <handjob> vmlinuz-2.6.32-22-generic
[09:28] <handjob> Won't accept any vga= prarameters form grub2/legancy.
[09:29] <handjob> I am wandering what is the latest version that did?
[09:29] <psycho_oreos> legacy should accept vga=, I've tried it and it works
[09:30] <psycho_oreos> and that version sounds like its coming out from lucid no? if so, it sounds like you are on an older/earlier version of the distro
[09:30] <handjob> Well I have tried it also and it didn't maybe it's my error.
[09:31] <psycho_oreos> try vga=ask and hit space when prompted, failing that would possibly mean its not set in the kernel config. I know that jaunty allows it but jaunty has ancient kernel fyi
[09:31] <handjob> Now I am running on karmic upgraded to lucid, however, on this box i do not require usefull command line resolution.
[09:32] <handjob> "vga=ask" should i put it in menu.lst?
[09:32] <psycho_oreos> I gotta admit upgrading is never clean, expect some broken bits
[09:32] <psycho_oreos> yes if you want to give it a try
[09:33] <handjob> I will, but before would You be so kind to take a look at my menu.lst. Maybe the error is on my side.
[09:33] <psycho_oreos> pastebin it
[09:33] <handjob> http://pastebin.com/9s3N57x4
[09:34] <psycho_oreos> well I don't see vga=ask line I do see vga=0x301
[09:35] <handjob> Yes I have not yet tried Your suggestion, I was asking since I thought i could make an error passing the wanter ressolution.
[09:36] <handjob> But if everything is fine i will check the ask option.
[09:36] <handjob> Thx.
[09:36] <handjob> Reboot.
[09:36] <psycho_oreos> replace 0x301 for ask, simple
[09:52] <handjob> psycho_oreos, I am back. The ask option somewhat works - is asks, but whatever the answer is it always boots in the same ressolution.
[09:55] <psycho_oreos> handjob, hmm not sure, *ubuntu sometimes has this thing interfering with resolution, not quite sure what it is but I initially suspected its something to do with initrd but now it could be something to do with resuming (from hibernation?)
[09:57] <handjob> psycho_oreos, No hibarnation. This is dmesg http://pastebin.com/4m4rEKdE . I don't think that it's only my problem. There are some similar cases on the net that i have read of.
[09:58] <psycho_oreos> handjob, dmesg output isn't useful in such cases like these. I have had similar problems before in the past but have never bothered to fix it properly myself.
[09:59] <handjob> Lazy boy.
[09:59] <handjob> ^^
[10:00] <psycho_oreos> *ubuntu goes into a pre-boot environment where the kernel is actually using that vga= parameter then resumes boot with another kernel or something like that whereby it does not carry on user's set commands
[10:00] <psycho_oreos> you are :p using *ubuntu
[10:00] <psycho_oreos> and like I said before, upgrades are never clean, expect broken bits
[10:01] <handjob> Yes I am and I thought there is some strang in-between boot state.
[10:01] <handjob> Thx for everything psycho_oreos .
[10:01] <handjob> Now I am going to brag about this on some kernel irc.
[10:02] <psycho_oreos> handjob, p.s. on my clean install of xubuntu jaunty, I don't have such issues :p
[10:02] <psycho_oreos> maybe you should probably try clean installs
[10:47] <handjob> Hi again. If i chroot into another os previously --bind(ding) devs/proc/sys can I install software as I would being loged in the "normal" way?
[10:48] <handjob> Other OS is also *buntu.
[13:13] <lansen> greetings, does the new partition alignment in Lucid Lynx have an impact on dual boot setups with other Linux distros?
[13:14] <bazhang> not afaik
[13:14] <lansen> even when distros share a common /home partition?
[13:15] <bazhang> which two distros
[13:16] <lansen> oy... several different ones, Arch Linux on a laptop with shared /home partition, SliTaz on a desktop
[13:17] <lansen> Lucid will tkae care of GURB in both cases
[13:17] <lansen> take*
[13:17] <lansen> GRUB* >.<
[13:17] <bazhang> you mean grub2?
[13:17] <lansen> yes
[13:17] <lansen> doing a clean install of the root partition in both cases
[13:18] <bazhang> read the grub2 wiki?
[13:19] <lansen> erm... not really sure what that has to do with partition alignment...
[13:20] <lansen> hmmm maybe a better question would be: does the new partition alignment in Lucid require a repartitioning of the harddrive?
[13:28] <lansen> nvm I guess I'll play it safe and pass the partman boot parameter
[13:57] <Jobob> SPAM
[13:57] <Jobob> SPAM
[13:57] <Jobob> SPAM
[13:57] <Jobob> SPAM
[13:57] <Jobob> lol
[13:57] <Jobob> sorreh
[13:57] <bazhang> Jobob, stop that
[14:46] <dreamer> hello
[14:46] <dreamer> qualcuno parla italiano ?
[14:46] <bazhang> !it
[14:47] <dreamer> ok, thankyou
[15:28] <PrebenR> Hi I found a security issue with xubuntu 10.04
[15:29] <PrebenR> problem is to find which package to report it against.
[15:29] <PrebenR> I had changed the fs of one of my partitions and I forgot to update fstab.
[15:30] <PrebenR> so when rebooting I was asked to skip mounting or do manual repair
[15:30] <PrebenR> when I chose the latter I got root shell without being asked for a passowrd
[15:31] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: That may be intentional.
[15:31] <PrebenR> what!!!??!!
[15:31] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: Considering there is no root password
[15:31] <mr_pouit> and anyway, someone with physical access to the computer can do anything
[15:31] <PrebenR> depends on how you have setup bios and the computer
[15:31] <PrebenR> and what level of encryption you have taken
[15:32] <arthurjohnson> mr_pouit: Indeed.  Password protecting the console doesn't protect against usb keys with rescue systems, boot keys, etc.  In fact, you can change grub to read init=/bin/bash and bypass any password controls
[15:32] <PrebenR> huh?
[15:33] <arthurjohnson> The latter is how I break onto customer systems if I have to do forensics.
[15:33] <PrebenR> If I in the bios set a passowrd and also set it to boot from HDD first
[15:33] <PrebenR> then why on earth should the computer boot the usb?
[15:33] <Sysi> disconnect HDD
[15:33] <Sysi> or/and take it with you
[15:34] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: Exactly.  Put the hard drive in another machine, mount it in a usb enclosure, etc.
[15:34] <PrebenR> yes, of course if you steal the HDD and put it in another computer
[15:34] <mr_pouit> (that's not xubuntu-specific, it's the same in ubuntu. If you want you can try to file a bug against the 'friendly-recovery' package PrebenR)
[15:34] <PrebenR> but that is kind of extreme
[15:34] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: Most servers are locked up in fort knox style data centers anyway.
[15:35] <PrebenR> my point is simply that it has been custom in most distros to ask the root password for accessing
[15:35] <PrebenR> the system when a failure occurs
[15:35] <arthurjohnson> In fact, to get to one of my dedicated servers you have to get past the keyscan outer doors, then keyscan the mantrap outside the data room, then biometrics to get all the way through the mantrap, then a physical key, then you have to know the kvm password.
[15:35] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: Its distro specific.  Fedora and Centos are the same way.
[15:36] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: You only need to boot to init 1 to get root access without a password
[15:36] <PrebenR> why do you need to do that if you open up backdoors for accesing the computer some 1000 km away?
[15:36] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: My recommendation is the same as mr_pouit, file a bug report against friendly-recovery
[15:37] <PrebenR> thanks I will
[15:37] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: We don't have any control over that.
[15:37] <PrebenR> btw
[15:37] <PrebenR> it is then not possible to encrypt / in ubuntu?
[15:37] <PrebenR> as root doesn't have a password
[15:37] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: In fact, if you want to harden your server its not that hard, refer to the bastille project.
[15:40] <arthurjohnson> !bastille
[15:41] <PrebenR> I just don't want ubuntu to end up as a crappy apple copy with no mind on security
[15:41] <arthurjohnson> Dangit.  I forgot how to expand package details with ubotto
[15:41] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: Anywho, see the package "bastille" that will allow you to harden your server, including setting passwords on the recovery console.
[15:42] <bazhang> !find bastille
[15:42] <PrebenR> thanks I will (after changing my daughters diaper ;-)  )
[15:42] <bazhang> !info bastille
[15:42] <arthurjohnson> Thanks bazhang
[15:42] <bazhang> np
[15:43] <arthurjohnson> Thats what I've always used to harden my servers that need extra security.
[15:53] <PrebenR> another point, why on earth is there no xsession.desktop for gdm in xubuntu but there is a xterm f.ex?
[15:54] <PrebenR> and why does the spash on my 1440x900 look like a C64 from the 80's? and not small and nice as one other resolutions?
[15:55] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: This is a support channel, your comments and complaints should be directed to #xubuntu-offtopic
[15:55] <Sysi> what graphics card / driver?
[15:55] <Sysi> mu splash got bad after installing restricted driver
[15:55] <PrebenR> huh
[15:55] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: I believe the problem with splash is a known bug, I think they are working on it
[15:55] <PrebenR> so if something is missing it is off topic
[15:55] <PrebenR> ?
[15:56] <Sysi> if something isn't asking for help it's offtopic
[15:56] <PrebenR> Sysi, ati HD4870
[15:57] <PrebenR> well I asked for help yesterday
[15:57] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: I was referring to your complaint about the xsession.desktop file being missing.
[15:57] <PrebenR> but nobody answered
[15:57] <arthurjohnson> PrebenR: Not the video resolution issue
[15:57] <PrebenR> so in the end afer 2 hours I managed to find the solution myself
[15:57] <PrebenR> so much for support
[15:57] <arthurjohnson> I have to fix my own problems all the time ;)
[15:58] <arthurjohnson> !patience
[15:58] <PrebenR> ubottu, I find that arch linux wiki has more answers than ubuntu itself. actually ;)
[15:59] <bazhang> its a bot PrebenR
[15:59] <Sysi> and enough clever to say that :D
[15:59] <PrebenR> sorry, didn't recognise  it from the name
[15:59] <bazhang> no problem
[16:00] <Sysi> you don't have to use ubuntu if you don't like it
[16:00] <Sysi> if you want unstable rolling release, go ahead
[16:00]  * arthurjohnson hugs Xubuntu
[16:01] <PrebenR> btw
[16:01] <arthurjohnson> All this bashing, I thought it could use a little love
[16:01] <Sysi> mah buntu ♥
[16:01]  * arthurjohnson group hugs all the *buntus!
[16:01] <arthurjohnson> Yes, even Kubuntu ;)
[16:01] <PrebenR> ash friendly.recovery works like it does, why do one consider that a program with a security bug giving root acces is a bug and not a feature
[16:02] <bazhang> ash?
[16:02] <PrebenR> sorry
[16:02] <PrebenR> as
[16:02] <bazhang> bash?
[16:02] <PrebenR> don't get me wrong, I love(x) ubuntu
[16:02] <arthurjohnson> Can we move the discussion of friendly.recovery and the xsession.desktop to the offtopic channel?
[16:03] <bazhang> lets keep support here please PrebenR
[16:03] <arthurjohnson> This channel should be reserved for support.
[16:03] <bazhang> all other chat in the -offtopic channel please
[16:03] <PrebenR> I just don't want it ending up like something that only thinks about newbie-friendliness and not security
[16:03] <PrebenR> ok
[16:07] <kora> hi, im running 10.04 now; has anybody else tried to use xfce-globalmenu from the gnome globalmenu team? it says that i have to manualle activate the globalmenu setting for gtk by posting this "export GTK_MODULES=globalmenu-gnome" in my xinitrc. i also tried this line in my .profile but the normal gtk menus dont disappear. any ideas?
[16:45] <junctions> Hello there
[16:45] <arthurjohnson> Greetings junctions
[16:45] <bazhang> hi
[16:46] <junctions> I'm new to the IRC support deal, but thought I'd give it a try, so excuse me if I don't work the nettiquete correctly
[16:46] <Sysi> Myrtti is gone :/
[16:47] <junctions> basically I wanted to know if anyone can help me with an AspireOne 751h and it's graphics configuration, as I just upgraded to Lucid Lynx disregarding the fact that no fix for the graphics bug is found on it's help.ubuntu.com page
[16:48] <junctions> maybe you guys can point me to how I would go about addressing this issue here (or if you think another way is better such as the ubuntuforums.org)
[17:44] <neiliob1973> needing help with bad display in Firefox after upgrade
[18:09] <Type00> the logo on bootup is all messed up can i change that?
[18:09] <charlie-tca> It is a direct cause of kms, There is no way to fix it right now
[18:10] <Type00> charlie-tca, kms?
[18:11] <charlie-tca> http://www.netsplit.com/2010/03/30/all-about-kernel-mode-setting/
[18:14] <Type00> can i remove the boot logo then or change it to one that will display properly if its a problem?
[18:15] <charlie-tca> sure
[18:15] <Type00> charlie-tca,  you know how?
[18:17] <charlie-tca> sure. create the logo you want, then replace /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.png with it, keeping the name the same
[18:17] <charlie-tca> However, very few images/text will look right
[18:20] <Type00> charlie-tca, so what kinda image format would work on it?
[18:20] <charlie-tca> png
[18:20] <charlie-tca> 16-color or less
[18:20] <Type00> charlie-tca, thanks for your help:)
[18:20] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[18:31] <Type00> how can i change the permissions of a file?
[18:34] <Type00> whats the name of the desktop effects app for xubuntu?
[18:34] <Sysi> xfwm4, the window manager :)
[18:34] <Sysi> settings → window manager tweaks
[18:34] <Sysi> or install compiz and try to set that up
[18:36] <Type00> Sysi, settings?
[18:36] <Sysi> in menu
[18:37] <Type00> i dont see that do i need to install it
[18:37] <Type00> manager tweaks?
[18:37] <Type00> or xfw
[18:37] <Type00> m
[18:37] <Sysi> you shouldn't need
[18:38] <Sysi> if you have xubuntu
[18:38] <Sysi> "window manager tweaks"
[18:42] <Type00> hmmm i wonder if its because i have built in video?
[18:49] <Type00> i have installed compiz but its not in my menus :/
[18:54] <Type00> how do i enable compix in xubuntu?
[19:00] <digitalstimulus> does anyone know of a way to trim down Xubuntu for very old hardware?
[19:01] <Sysi> install and use lubuntu-desktop
[19:01] <digitalstimulus> without having to build from the ground up and select everything manually
[19:01] <Sysi> if we talk like 128mb ram
[19:01] <digitalstimulus> 90 MB
[19:01] <Sysi> install lubuntu, it could run ok
[19:02] <digitalstimulus> is it selectable through apt?
[19:02] <digitalstimulus> I've never heard of or seen lubuntu
[19:03] <Sysi> !lubuntu
[19:05] <digitalstimulus> thanks :)
[19:06] <Type00> so is that desktop environment ffaster that xfce and more light weight?
[19:06] <Sysi> yes
[19:06] <Sysi> of course then missing some features
[19:07] <Type00> what is the lightest weight widow manager?
[19:07] <Sysi> ratpoison propably
[19:07] <Sysi> but it's even beyond rough
[19:07] <digitalstimulus> i'm trying to refurbish a 350 Mhz, 90 MB RAM, 6 GB HDD system...Xubuntu was a bit too much of a hog.  The goal is to give away the computer to someone who may have no knowledge of how to use a computer at all
[19:07] <Sysi> lxde uses openbox
[19:08] <digitalstimulus> going to try lubuntu, hopefully I can get those non PnP ISA cards working in lubuntu
[19:08] <Type00> sysi how do enable compiz in xubuntu?
[19:08] <Sysi> alt+f2 "compiz"
[19:09] <arthurjohnson> digitalstimulus: You could try some of my Lean Ubutnu methods:  http://leanubuntu.blogspot.com/
[19:09] <arthurjohnson> The "Lean Xubuntu" install I'm on only uses 60 megs once booted up.  You would have to use a light window manager thou.
[19:09] <arthurjohnson> Thats about what Lubuntu uses, FYI
[19:10] <digitalstimulus> hopefully lubuntu isn't "too light", I am not going to be around to help whoever gets this computer
[19:10] <arthurjohnson> digitalstimulus: With so little RAM you may want to consider not using a desktop env all together.  WindowMaker can be setup to be pretty user friendly.
[19:10] <digitalstimulus> I've not dealt with such old hardware in years
[19:11] <arthurjohnson> LXDE is a fine environment, but it doesn't have nearly as many features as Xfce.  That was my only complaint.
[19:11] <digitalstimulus> right now xubuntu is loaded on it and it takes about 5 mins to boot up
[19:11] <Sysi> that old machine is hardly usable for browsing internet
[19:11] <arthurjohnson> Plus the file manager doesn't have a volume manager, that is removable devices don't show up on the desktop.
[19:12] <digitalstimulus> lots of swapping, I have a few more older systems, so i'm trying to find something I can 'install and go' for each one.
[19:12] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: I agree.  None of the major browsers will run very well at all.
[19:12] <digitalstimulus> without having to spend lots of time confiruging
[19:12] <digitalstimulus> it actually runs firefox decent, after the swap fest, it's ok
[19:13] <digitalstimulus> obviously stuff like flash and video would choke
[19:13] <arthurjohnson> You might want to try Chromium, the build in Lucid is actually really good.
[19:13] <digitalstimulus> but the internet was around in 1998 :)
[19:13] <Sysi> arthurjohnson: i did that minimal with just: xorg, gdm, xfce4, xfce4-goodies, midori (browser)
[19:13] <arthurjohnson> And it uses a third of the RAM of Firefox
[19:13] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: How did that work out for you?
[19:13] <Sysi> but adblock
[19:13] <Sysi> arthurjohnson: well
[19:14] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: makes a pretty lean mean machine doesn't it!
[19:14] <Sysi> yeah
[19:14] <digitalstimulus> I'll go with slow and more newbie friendly over fast and "more confusing", this computer may end up going to someone who has never used a computer before
[19:14] <Sysi> funnily it has even different wallpapers than xubuntu
[19:14] <arthurjohnson> I like the Xfce Smoke wallpaper, that one is pretty sweet.
[19:15] <charlie-tca> digitalstimulus: you are building a system for someone that has never touched a computer, you really should increase the ram to 256MB at least, so they don't get the idea computers are not useful
[19:15] <Sysi> o hai charlie :)
[19:15] <digitalstimulus> I would if it didn't use pre-SDRAM modules
[19:15] <digitalstimulus> I think they're EDO
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Hello, Sysi
[19:15] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: Check out the later article on leanubuntu, you can install the Xubuntu graphics and it doesn't take up any more RAM
[19:15] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: Its the Lean Xubuntu article
[19:16] <Type00> 5how much you gonna sell that for?
[19:16] <Sysi> arthurjohnson: i don't like gnome
[19:16] <arthurjohnson> charlie-tca: I'll second that.  It would run Xubuntu 10.04 pretty well, the memory footprint is lower than 9.04, the last time I checked Xubuntu's memory foot print.
[19:16] <Sysi> i have enough ram for any DE in all my machines
[19:17] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: I don't care for Gnome either.  Not enough config options for me, and I don't want to run Compiz.
[19:17] <arthurjohnson> Sysi: or can't on some of my machines
[19:18] <Sysi> i tried compiz on xfce because of window switches, didn't like it
[19:18] <Sysi> kde is pretty good after much setting up
[19:18] <Type00> kde heavier than xfce?
[19:19] <arthurjohnson> Type00: Depends
[19:19] <digitalstimulus> this poor computer's video can't do over 640x480
[19:19] <arthurjohnson> Type00: If you run all KDE applications, its around the same footprint of Xfce running similar apps
[19:19] <arthurjohnson> digitalstimulus: Boat anchor
[19:19] <digitalstimulus> arthurjohnson, nah
[19:20] <arthurjohnson> I wouldn't run a modern wm/de on anything less than 800x600, and thats pushing it
[19:20] <digitalstimulus> If I put 1000 of them in a cluster of sorts, I might be able to get the power of this computer
[19:20] <arthurjohnson> Again, thou, it depends on what they are going to be using it for.
[19:20] <Type00> so a p4 2 gig and 512 mb ddr onboard video would run kde?
[19:21] <Sysi> easily propably
[19:21] <arthurjohnson> Type00: I would immagine.  I haven't used Kubuntu since 8.04 thou.
[19:21] <Sysi> i ran it on eee 701 and it worked well
[19:22] <digitalstimulus> Yes, I just reloaded a P4/512...with ubuntu though.  It was pretty snappy
[19:22] <Sysi> exept that if i had firefox on music player stopped occasionally
[19:22] <digitalstimulus> gnome, not kde
[19:26] <digitalstimulus> puppy linux is looking promising for this old hulk
[19:28] <arthurjohnson> digitalstimulus: I would have to agree.  Its kinda what puppy was designed for.
[19:29] <arthurjohnson> digitalstimulus: A P4/512 with Xubuntu would be very snappy.
[19:29] <digitalstimulus> I've got it running in a VM right now testing.  Going to try lubuntu though.  Puppy is really "dumbed down" so to speak and fast to boot
[19:29] <arthurjohnson> Did they ever update seamonkey on puppy?
[19:30] <digitalstimulus> Not sure
[19:30] <digitalstimulus> Seamonkey 1.1.18
[19:30] <arthurjohnson> Ick
[19:31] <arthurjohnson> Thats like Firefox 2
[19:31] <arthurjohnson> maybe even firefox 1.  Pretty old.
[19:31]  * arthurjohnson thinks we're breaking protocol in this channel
[19:32] <charlie-tca> where did sunbird go?
[19:32] <digitalstimulus> Anyone have any ideas on how to make xubuntu less resourceful?
[19:32] <digitalstimulus> since this is #xubuntu
[19:32] <charlie-tca> I finally found a stand-alone calendar app that worked for me, it is no longer in the repository as of the final version of 10.04
[19:32] <charlie-tca> digitalstimulus: make it pure xfce:
[19:32] <charlie-tca> !purexfce
[19:33] <digitalstimulus> that sound promising
[19:33] <digitalstimulus> thanks charlie-tca
[19:33] <charlie-tca> no problem
[19:33] <arthurjohnson> charlie-tca: They dumped sunbird a while ago.
[19:33] <charlie-tca> huh?
[19:33] <arthurjohnson> charlie-tca: They recommend Thunderbird + Lightening
[19:33] <charlie-tca> it just went away the end of april
[19:33] <arthurjohnson> I think its on their main page.
[19:33] <charlie-tca> I don't want thunderbird, though
[19:34] <arthurjohnson> Me neither.
[19:34] <charlie-tca> I like claws-mail. It works for me better than thunderbird
[19:34]  * arthurjohnson still uses Pine
[19:34] <arthurjohnson> Aloung with ircII and centerim
[19:39] <Type00> how do i set an app to start up when linux starts up?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> you want it for all users?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> you can put a link to it in /etc/rc.local , and turn on the executable permissions for /etc/rc.local
[19:42] <Type00> yeh
[19:43] <Type00> how do i create a short cut to the task bar too?
[19:43] <charlie-tca> task bar??
[19:43] <Type00> the bar at the top
[19:43] <charlie-tca> top panel? maybe
[19:43] <Type00> yeh
[19:44] <charlie-tca> right click, left-click 'Add New Item'
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Add a launcher
[19:44] <Type00> where are the logos for the apps?
[19:46] <charlie-tca> click the big square with the ugly picture in the launcher, then in the 'Select icon from: " box, click the arrows on the left, click on 'all icons'
[19:46] <charlie-tca> I guess that is a brown/orange diamond I click on
[19:53] <Type00> greeat thanks, how do a daemon to start say screenlets on start up?
[19:56] <charlie-tca> find the .desktop file that runs it, copy it to /home/USER/.config/autostart
[19:56] <charlie-tca> It will then run when the user logs in
[19:57] <charlie-tca> You can usually find the .desktop file by looking in /usr/share/applications
[19:58] <charlie-tca> There are probably other ways to do these things, these are just the way I do it
[20:43] <type00> hey, xubuntu dont seem to picj up my cd drive
[20:43] <Sysi> 10.04?
[20:44] <Sysi> does usb-drives work?
[20:44] <type00> yes
[20:44] <type00> yes
[20:44] <charlie-tca> Does it work with a data cd?
[20:44] <charlie-tca> It no longer shows up in /media/cdrom unless there is a cd in the drive, and then it doesn't always show up anyway in there
[20:45] <type00> i have placed a cd in and it still dont show
[20:46]  * charlie-tca out of ideas
[20:46] <type00> its detected in the bios
[20:46] <type00> hence the install of the os
[21:24] <Type00> so chmod is to set permissions on files
[22:05] <Type00> what can i use for my web cam software wise?
[22:28] <arthurjohnson> Type00: Cheese works really good, so does skype with some sort of compatibility plugin.
[22:28] <Cheese> I do?
[22:28] <arthurjohnson> ha!
[22:28] <Cheese> Hmm, need to get Cheese, actually
[22:29] <arthurjohnson> Cheese is fun
[22:29] <arthurjohnson> !info cheese
[22:30] <arthurjohnson> Oh, and Empathy works.  My webcam is a Logitec QuickCam, those seem to be the best supported in Linux
[22:31] <Type00> yeh i have a logitech quickcam express
[22:31] <TheSheep> any luck getting them to work in flash?
[22:32] <Type00> how can i set my user for admin privs?
[22:32] <TheSheep> Type00: system->users ad groups->manage groups->admin
[22:33] <TheSheep> or 'advanced settings' and then 'manage privileges'
[22:36] <Type00> i cant change the permissions on the xubuntu logo asi need to replace it
[22:36] <Type00> say operation not permitted when i chmod
[22:38] <TheSheep> !sudo
[22:42] <Type00> what is sudo then?
[22:42] <Type00> i though if iwas set to admin i could edit any files on my system
[22:43] <TheSheep> no, then anyone could get you to run some script that would destroy everything
[22:43] <TheSheep> each time a root privilege is needed, you need to give your password
[22:44] <TheSheep> well, unless you just did that less than 5 minutes ago
[22:44] <TheSheep> this way scripts can't act as root without your knowledge
[22:44] <Type00> got it thanks
[22:44] <Type00> is copy 'cp'?
[22:45] <TheSheep> yes
[22:45] <TheSheep> you can also just run 'gksu thunar'
[22:53] <Type00> does any one know where i can edit the logout image, as i have sorted the boot image as the existing ones are all distorted on boot and logout
[22:55] <svideoproblem> --Can anyone please help me i want to know how to extend or show my desktop on tv with my realmagic hw+ card
[22:55] <TheSheep> !xrandr
[22:56] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: does it work with a pci card without installing the drivers (win2000 :()
[22:56] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: in the simplest case, just connecting your tv and running 'xrandr --auto' should work
[22:56] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: no, it only works on linux
[22:56] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: yes i meant the drivers are only for windows 2000
[22:56] <svideoproblem> okay i go try xrandr
[22:57] <svideoproblem> shows only my onboard vga
[22:58] <xubuntu_newbie> running xubuntu and having a sound problem that i can´t seem to fix from forum notes...is this the chat room to come to?   is there a better one for xubuntu problems?  all help appreciated..:-[
[22:59] <svideoproblem> aumix and mixersettings good? (not muted) xubuntu_newbie
[23:00] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: yes, this is the place
[23:01] <xubuntu_newbie> got gui alsa mixer up...master, pcm, cd and pc speaker full volume and not muted...line-in and microphone muted...i do get beep when i shut down or type an illegal character...otherwise no sounds in xubuntu...still works when i boot windows(bleah)...
[23:03] <xubuntu_newbie> sound originally worked...then i got over ambicious and tried to instal ubuntu studio...but that was too much for my old laptop...so i tried to uninstall ubuntu studio   and sound has gone away.....except for shutdown beep as mentioned earlier.
[23:04] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: : u only have xubuntu installed now?
[23:05] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: how do you test for it?
[23:05] <xubuntu_newbie> as best as i can tell...still learning linux/xubuntu....
[23:07] <xubuntu_newbie> i figure uninstall zapped some parameter or file somewhere...but can´t seem to figure out what.....have reinstalled alsa several times using forum notes....that stuff didn´t seem to help....or hurt...
[23:07] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: u know how to open terminal? try aumix and check sttings
[23:07] <xubuntu_newbie> can do
[23:08] <xubuntu_newbie> give me a moment...let u know results...
[23:08] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: can u help me, xrandr i got but it shows only my onboard connected screen and not my pci videocard with svideo out to tv plugged
[23:09] <TheSheep> ah
[23:09] <TheSheep> you have two video cards
[23:09] <TheSheep> !twinhead
[23:09] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: it is recognised by lspci but what now ? (yes sorry for confusion)
[23:09] <TheSheep> !dualhead
[23:09] <TheSheep> it's going to be much more complicated
[23:10] <TheSheep> but doable
[23:10] <svideoproblem> okay so theres no need for me to compile the dxr3 linux driver for the card?
[23:11] <svideoproblem> (that didnt work :p)
[23:11] <TheSheep> I'm not sure, but (x)ubuntu comes with most drivers included
[23:12] <TheSheep> only a few closed-source ones need to be installed separately
[23:12] <svideoproblem> okay how to install xinerama, is it just libxinerama1 or 0 dont remember
[23:12] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: try with two separate screens first
[23:13] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: if that works, go for xinerama
[23:13] <xubuntu_newbie> k...aumix shows same as alsa mixer...vol, pcm, spkr and cd at 100%...other at 0%...such as pcm2, line, mic, igain, line1, difital1, phonein,phoneout and video
[23:13] <TheSheep> pcm2 might be important
[23:13] <xubuntu_newbie> aumix balance is in middle for all...
[23:13] <svideoproblem> how do i do that if i disable this one i cant try to enable the tv out
[23:13] <xubuntu_newbie> k...want me to boost pcm2 up to 100%???
[23:13] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: good
[23:14] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: won't kill you :)
[23:14] <svideoproblem> try installing gnome alsa mixer
[23:14] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: you can add two graphics cards to your xorg.conf
[23:14] <xubuntu_newbie> probably not;-)
[23:14] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: meh
[23:14] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: that worked for my soundproblem
[23:15] <svideoproblem> but i did have no sound at all so might be no fix for u
[23:16] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: how would i go about doing that? its a very old one im on a P3 now
[23:16] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: I think that link for dualhead above had a howto
[23:17] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Using_multiple_monitors_with_XFree86#Multihead
[23:18] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: cool was on same page :)
[23:19] <xubuntu_newbie> setting pcm2 didn´t seem to have any effect...still no sound...
[23:21] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: how do you test that?
[23:22] <svideoproblem> TheSheep: sorry i feel like a noob but last time i was messing with xorg was way back :p
[23:23] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: man xorg.conf  <-- this helps
[23:24] <xubuntu_newbie> tried playing a short video w/sound, tried playing a midi file, tried internet radio.....no go on any of them....all of them used to work...
[23:24] <svideoproblem> TheSheep:  but i dont have one, in /etc/X11
[23:24] <TheSheep> svideoproblem: then make it
[23:24] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: i presume u did update after ur install?
[23:25] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: maybe you are missing codecs?
[23:25] <TheSheep> !mp3
[23:26] <xubuntu_newbie> i had previously tried updating codecs as per forum notes...but that didn help...
[23:27] <xubuntu_newbie> how can i be sure i really got them ???
[23:27] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: try this: cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp  (it will make noise)
[23:27] <TheSheep> ctrl+c to stop
[23:27] <svideoproblem> xubuntu_newbie: type: sudo apt-get install gnome-alsamixer and try again. worked for me... if not u can sudo apt-get remove gnome-alsamixer
[23:28] <xubuntu_newbie> k ...let me try noise maker first...then will try gnome alsa...
[23:28] <xubuntu_newbie> not hearing anything with ...﻿cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
[23:28] <TheSheep> ok, then it's the card, not codecs
[23:29] <TheSheep> try increasing volume on all channels, sometimes it detects the names wrong
[23:29] <xubuntu_newbie> some card setting got messed up???   card works fine when i boot up windows....
[23:30] <TheSheep> by card I mean the driver and/or channel settings
[23:30] <TheSheep> not hardware
[23:30] <TheSheep> btw, is there a hardware volume control by any chance? ;)
[23:31] <xubuntu_newbie> how do i increase sound on all channels???  how is that differnt that boosting vol using aumix???
[23:31] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: use aumix
[23:31] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: but also do it on the channels like linein and phone
[23:31] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: they may be labeled incorrectly
[23:31] <xubuntu_newbie> yeah, buttons on laptop...again...they work great with windows....should be on full....i clearly hear beep at shutdown time...
[23:32] <xubuntu_newbie> k....when you said channels...i wasn´t sure that´s what u meant...  will do...
[23:32] <TheSheep> alsamixer shows more of them so try with that
[23:33] <xubuntu_newbie> k
[23:33] <TheSheep> run the noisemaker in other window and play with them all
[23:36] <Type00> i cant seem to get compiz to work
[23:36] <TheSheep> !compiz
[23:38] <xubuntu_newbie> yikes.....went through alsa mixer...got to an item call DAC...it was set to 0...so i started to bump it up.....WOW....the noise was deafing!!!:-D
[23:38] <TheSheep> toldya
[23:39] <xubuntu_newbie> what is DAC????  just out of curiosity???
[23:40] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: the chip on your sound card, afair
[23:40] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter
[23:48] <Type00> has any one got compiz running on xubuntu?
[23:48] <xubuntu_newbie> midi now works...video....wav files...mp3...internet radio......DAC  seems to be the setting....had to turn down all the volume settings as it was toooooo loud!!!!    thanks so much!!!   don´t remember any of the forums notes on sound issues saying to check the DAC setting with alsa mixer.......this chat room is great....!!!!!...:-D...was that too over the top!!!
[23:48] <TheSheep> xubuntu_newbie: you actually did it yourself, all we could do is encouragement
[23:48] <GiZy> hi 2 all
[23:49] <xubuntu_newbie> and direction!!!!  yoda!!!
[23:49] <TheSheep> hello GiZy
[23:49] <TheSheep> Type00: I did some 2 years ago, but it probably all changed since, try asking on #compiz
[23:49] <GiZy> i'm newbie on xubuntu? and i apologise for my bad english =))
[23:49] <GiZy> ,*
[23:50] <TheSheep> GiZy: your English is good so far :)
[23:50] <TheSheep> GiZy: what's your problem?
[23:50] <Xorgproblem> hello, im now from shell lol how do i make my xorg?
[23:51] <GiZy> when i choose user and type passwd login screen just reboot))
[23:51] <Xorgproblem> i dropped gdm
[23:51] <Xorgproblem> GiZy: can u try another session? will it reboot too?
[23:51] <GiZy> now i can login onlu as root
[23:51] <TheSheep> Xorgproblem: it should work without any, autodetecting everything
[23:51] <GiZy> y*
[23:52] <Xorgproblem> huh?
[23:52] <TheSheep> GiZy: can you check the /home/youruser/.xsessionerrors file for anything that may be related?
[23:53] <TheSheep> Xorgproblem: you can also generate one with 'Xorg -configure'
[23:53] <GiZy> okay boss ^__^
[23:55] <Xorgproblem> TheSheep: a few red stripes for a sec but screen remains black while testing
[23:56] <GiZy> (xfce4-mixer-plugin:2669): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0
[23:56] <GiZy> (xfce4-settings-helper:2661): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error
[23:56] <GiZy> it's what i need?)
[23:58] <TheSheep> GiZy: do you have free space left on your disk? you can check with 'df -h'
[23:58] <GiZy> anyway google is my friend
[23:58] <GiZy> yep, 400Gb =D
[23:58] <TheSheep> on h eroot partition too?
[23:58] <GiZy> hm
[23:58] <Xorgproblem> TheSheep: i lost my gdm and xorg.conf.d is not working either
[23:58] <TheSheep> on the root*
[23:59] <TheSheep> Xorgproblem: how did you lose it?
[23:59] <GiZy> it's a magic
[23:59] <GiZy> =D