[02:14] <liquidmeson> http://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w%2BYS7FHzX8C 
[04:04] <liquidmeson> define: nunnery, the convent of a community of nuns.
[12:45] <unimatrix> has anyone noticed that the top screen border is unusable since lucid?
[12:46] <kklimonda> why exactly is it unusable?
[12:46] <unimatrix> for example if i want to unmaximize a window
[12:46] <unimatrix> if i doubleclick on the window border at the top of the screen
[12:46] <unimatrix> this doesn't work anymore since lucid
[12:47] <unimatrix> how do i reenable this feature?
[12:48] <kklimonda> no idea, works here - are you sure you are clicking a window border and not a menu? they look the same in lucid and you can drag by holding menu in lucid but you can't maximize/minimize by double clicking it
[12:48] <unimatrix> i slam the mouse to the top of the screen
[12:48] <unimatrix> and doubleclick
[12:49] <unimatrix> in karmic, this unmaximized the window
[12:49] <unimatrix> in lucid nothing happens
[12:49] <unimatrix> i have to aim for it and lower the cursor for a pixel or two
[12:50] <kklimonda> no, even if I remove top panel, maximize window, move mouse to the top and double click it works - maybe it depends on a theme?
[12:50] <unimatrix> i'm using dust sand
[12:50] <unimatrix> oh yea i forgot to mention that i'm not using the top panel
[12:51] <kklimonda> hmm, it works fine here with dust sand too.
[12:51] <unimatrix> i've tried other themes now
[12:51] <unimatrix> none of them work
[12:52] <unimatrix> ah snap, now the damn buttons have moved to the left side again :S
[12:52] <unimatrix> how do i permanently set them to stay on the right side?
[12:54] <unimatrix> anyone?
[12:55] <kklimonda> dunno if you can, theme seems to be overriding gconf settings
[12:55] <unimatrix> what kind of an idiot thought they would be better to the left anyone
[12:55] <unimatrix> anyway*
[13:11] <unimatrix> what could be causing this top border to be ignored?
[13:11] <unimatrix> compiz?
[13:14] <kklimonda> possibly, try with metacity
[13:14] <unimatrix> it's fine with metacity
[14:12] <unimatrix> hmm, ive found out something even stranger
[14:12] <unimatrix> if i printscreen while my cursor is in the upper screen corner, it will not be visible on the screenshot
[14:13] <unimatrix> video driver bug?
[14:13] <hyperair> hey i made an interesting discovery! if my cursor is in the upper right screen corner, i can't see it!
[14:14] <hyperair> it must be a bug!
[14:14] <unimatrix> shit i didn't mean "corner"
[14:14] <unimatrix> should've written "edge"
[14:14]  * hyperair chuckles
[14:14] <unimatrix> and it is clearly a bug
[14:15] <hyperair> my cursor's visible
[14:15] <hyperair> using scrot, at least.
[14:15] <unimatrix> let's try scrot
[14:16] <hyperair> hmm with gnome-screenshot it's also visible.
[14:16] <unimatrix> are you using compiz?
[14:16] <hyperair> yeah, i am
[14:16] <unimatrix> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/121855/2010-05-07-151616_1920x1200_scrot.png
[14:16] <unimatrix> there we go, no cursor
[14:17] <unimatrix> i had it at the top screen edge
[14:18] <unimatrix> hmm, scrot doesn't capture it at all
[14:27] <unimatrix> ok i've narrowed down my initial problem to compiz-decorator
[17:13] <mikelifeguard> no mpt :(
[17:15] <mikelifeguard> 11 minutes ago :O
[17:15] <mikelifeguard> he must have known I was gonna bonk his noggin >_>
[17:58] <jcastro> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundMenu 
[17:58] <hyperair> jcastro: yeah i saw that.
[17:58] <hyperair> jcastro: what do you think about it?
[17:59] <jcastro> dunno until I use it
[17:59] <hyperair> heh
[17:59] <hyperair> true that
[17:59] <jcastro> I am finding that I prefer the old volume slider to the new one
[17:59] <hyperair> how was the old one like?
[17:59] <hyperair> i don't remember, i hardly ever opened it
[17:59] <jcastro> vertical
[17:59] <hyperair> i just scrolled 
[18:00] <hyperair> i'm finding i can live with banshee's appindicator, as long as i have music-applet around
[18:02] <mikelifeguard> anyone else mindboggled by removing the standard show/hide action for left-clicking some app icon in the notification area? Apparently this is a feature
[18:03] <hyperair> i'm not mindboggled.
[18:03] <mikelifeguard> just like putting the notify-osd bubbles over top of what the user is reading is a Feature(TM)
[18:03] <hyperair> er
[18:03] <hyperair> what?
[18:03] <hyperair> since when?
[18:04] <mikelifeguard> since Karmic
[18:04] <hyperair> notify-osd ends up in a corner
[18:04] <mikelifeguard> no it doesn't
[18:04] <hyperair> yes it does
[18:04] <mikelifeguard> At least someone fixed it for us in a PPA :)
[18:04] <hyperair> it's in the corner
[18:04] <hyperair> how can it block what you're reading?
[18:05]  * hyperair pokes mikelifeguard 
[18:05] <mikelifeguard> no, it is about 3cm from the corner, placing it directly over top of, for example, text on a webpage
[18:06] <hyperair> 3cm from the corner, fine, yes.
[18:06] <hyperair> but don't you usually have toolbars at the top of your windows?
[18:06] <hyperair> and honestly, if you have a website that stuffs everything at the top right corner, it's a retarded website that isn't worth visiting.
[18:06] <mikelifeguard> Usually. But it is below that too.
[18:07] <hyperair> mikelifeguard: and i suppose you visit lots of websites that stuff their content in the top right corner?
[18:07] <mikelifeguard> Anyways, like I said, someone fixed that bug for us. But it is comparable to removing standard behaviour for application icons in the notification area.
[18:07] <hyperair> i'm using chromium and the notification blocks what, 3mm of content?
[18:07] <jcastro> but if you move it won't there be text on whatever corner you put it on?
[18:08] <hyperair> mikelifeguard: i'm just trying to understand why you are so bothered by the notifications appearing one position lower.
[18:09] <mikelifeguard> Yes, the point is to minimize how much of what the user is interacting with you have to cover. This was done properly in Intrepid, and is done properly in other OSs.
[18:09] <hyperair> i forget, did intrepid have notify-osd at all?
[18:09] <jcastro> J was the first one iirc
[18:09] <mikelifeguard> I think that was the first one
[18:09] <hyperair> no, jaunty was the first.
[18:09] <hyperair> rmadison said so
[18:10] <mikelifeguard> ah, then it was done properly in Jaunty
[18:10] <hyperair> if you had notify-osd in intrepid, that was because you probably used my PPA.
[18:10] <hyperair> all they did was switch the positions of the synchronous and non-synchronous notifications, afaik
[18:11] <hyperair> i think firefox had its search box always blocked by notify-osd
[18:11] <hyperair> so they shifted it down
[18:12] <hyperair> but back on topic, the ability to open applications with one click was nice.
[18:13] <hyperair> and banshee's tooltips was an important functionality of the icon.
[18:14] <hyperair> i use music-applet to compensate for its loss
[18:14] <hyperair> which basically means i now have one extra applet in my panel, wasting more space and adding clutter.
[18:14] <hyperair> whee.
[18:14] <mikelifeguard> Like I said, the goal should be to minimize how much of what the user is *interacting with* you have to cover. Unless the user is interacting with that search box, it is irrelevant.
[18:15] <hyperair> i think it's virtually impossible to figure out what the user is currently interacting with.
[18:15] <hyperair> you apparently have website content within the first 3mm of the top of the page which always gets blocked by notify-osd
[18:16] <hyperair> but is your mouse or keyboard focus within that 3mm?
[18:16] <hyperair> i doubti t
[18:16] <hyperair> short of using a webcam to track your eyes, it's impossible to figure out what you're doing with that 3mm
[18:16] <hyperair> or if you are actually doing anything with that 3mm
[18:17] <hyperair> besides, i think 3mm is already quite minimal, but apparently it's not enough for you
[18:30] <mikelifeguard> Does Canonical do usability research?
[18:31] <kklimonda> they do
[18:32] <mikelifeguard> Is there any data available from that research? For example, the MediaWiki Usability team has published lots of data at http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usability,_Experience,_and_Progress_Study (etc)
[18:36] <kklimonda> no that i know of but Shuttleworth was hinting that those interested should get in touch with someone from dx team to get this data available. you can check his q+a session from the last open week for a full answer (which may or may not be longer than one sentence)
[18:39] <mikelifeguard> k, thanks
[18:45] <hyperair> kklimonda: i'll be interested to see that researdch
[18:45] <hyperair> the results of the research, i mean
[19:40] <mikelifeguard> kklimonda: Where would one find that Q&A you talked about?
[19:41] <kklimonda> !openweek
[19:41] <ubot4> Ubuntu is hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to join the Ubuntu community, which all takes place in a week. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek for schedules, logs, and instructions.
[19:42] <kklimonda> mikelifeguard: ^ there you will find a link to logs
[19:42] <mikelifeguard> cool, thanks