[00:03] godbyk, help! [00:04] daker: what's up? [00:04] i can't start mysql server [00:04] start mysql [00:04] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [00:04] 'sudo start mysql'? [00:04] or the old-fashioned way: 'sudo /etc/init.d/mysql start' [00:04] daker@ubuntu:~$ sudo start mysql [00:04] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [00:04] the same [00:04] error [00:04] service mysqld start [00:04] hmm.. [00:05] jcisio, there is no mysqld sevice [00:05] godbyk, I'm writing a text for translator about what should not be translated [00:05] jcisio: okay [00:06] daker: I'm not sure.. maybe check the log files for errors? (look in /var/log for mysql* files or 'messages') [00:14] :s [00:17] godbyk, http://freshmeat.net/projects/docbookwiki [00:17] sf site : http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/ [00:19] daker: neat. I'll take a look at it. [00:36] godbyk, how to display `` in LaTeX? [00:37] jcisio: you can try \verb|``| [00:38] thanks [00:40] hmm getting the manual into mavrick could be hard [00:41] ubuntujenkins: oh yeah? [00:41] persia> I'm not sure it's enough to have meaningful value as it's own package if it's a glorified .desktop file. [00:41] You could upload it to REVU, but I believe the backlog is larger than will be processed during the maverick cycle, which makes it awkward. [00:41] And I agree there's no point trying to get it in Debian: it doesn't belong there. [00:42] we can get it into the cue to be reviewed but we may not get it in [00:42] it is basically a glorified .desktop file. [00:43] it was sugested that it went into debian as it would get in to ubuntu quicker but there is no use for it there. [00:43] I will strive to do my best to get it in [00:44] http://jcisio.com/upload/translator-cheatsheet.pdf half-page translator cheatsheet [00:46] any thought/suggestions godbyk ? [00:46] time go to bed, bb all [00:48] ubuntujenkins: Hmm.. [00:48] ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure. I don't know why it would be unacceptable, I guess. [00:49] I was told "Basic guidelines are: lintian-clean, nicely packaged, of interest to some Ubuntu developer." I questioned the ubuntu dev bit . I think we make it then try and get it in [00:50] yeah, the ubuntu dev bit.. I don't understand that. [00:50] do they mean it has to interest some dev enough to adopt our package? [00:50] because there are loads of non-development-related packages in ubuntu. [00:50] I don't know i did ask but the question was not directly answered [00:51] 'kay. [00:51] we shall see [00:51] I guess. [00:51] Seems to me like it shouldn't be that big of a deal. [00:51] well, I think I'm going to go read a book for a while before passing out. [00:52] I am off to bed as well night all [00:52] night god [00:52] * godbyk [00:52] (still trying to push my sleep time around the clock. woke up at 11pm last night and it's 7pm now. might try to hold out a bit longer, but it's not happening in front of this computer screen!) [00:52] ubuntujenkins: I respond to god, too. :) [00:52] ubuntujenkins: g'night! [00:52] lol night [01:03] godbyk, i think the problem is initctl [01:04] sudo initctl [01:04] [sudo] password for daker: [01:04] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [01:04] http://old.nabble.com/Bug-571056:-chroot_upstart:-divert-initctl-(like-policy-rc.d)-to-fix-start(8)-in-Ubuntu-Lucid-postinsts.-td27697926.html [03:22] Red_HamsterX, hi, yesterday sadly had issues with my display :(, read the irc logs now. ubuntujenkins had introduced me to you [04:17] * Red_HamsterX belatedly "hi"s at hemanth. [04:18] * hemanth o/ [09:05] morning. [09:05] moring godbyk [09:05] I slept from 1930 to 0030 and then read for a bit. Finally got out of bed and showered. It's now 0300. [09:06] My sleep time is slowly getting back to something akin to normal, I suppose.. [09:06] just what i was going to say [09:08] daker sent me this link earlier: http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/ [09:08] It looks like that might be just what we're after. [09:09] nice looks good [09:09] I am off to another group meeting see you later o/ [09:10] see ya [10:28] hey all, nearly fell asleep at college today! [10:28] been up nearly 48 hours straight! [10:30] that sucks. [10:31] http://www.scribd.com/documents/30964170/Scribd-in-HTML5 [10:32] godbyk: yea, BUT i know what its like to be sleep deprived now :) [10:32] so i did learn something today [10:32] heh.. there ya go, nisshh [10:32] thorwil: seen that! [10:33] thorwil: cool. our doc is already on scribd, btw: http://www.scribd.com/doc/30667167/Getting-Started-With-Ubuntu-10-04 [10:35] just how the selectable text in custom font fits neatly in the comic is damn nice [10:35] yeah, it is [10:36] i like it [10:36] no 100% cpu either [10:37] looks like ours gets mangled a bit: http://www.scribd.com/documents/30667167/Getting-Started-With-Ubuntu-10-04 [10:38] ugh [10:39] just a bit yea [10:39] daker sent me this link earlier: http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/ [10:40] which looks like what we may want to use for this new site (after it's been heavily modified). [10:40] at least, the keywords sound right. :) [10:40] godbyk: yea [10:42] just tried out a tiled window manager called xmonad, its so awesome! [10:42] except for the fact that its not designed for 19 inch monitors [10:43] needds something bigger [10:47] brb [11:01] godbyk: this sounds like dita would be a bad idea: http://www.scriptorium.com/palimpsest/2006/01/to-dita-or-not-to-dita.html [11:02] though the topic concept sounds like it could with offering our content in varying "packages" [11:07] true. [11:08] I wonder how Mallard compares. [11:08] http://projectmallard.org/ [11:09] it seems the gnome docs are headed that direction. [11:09] and ubuntu docs appear to be following suit (or are at least leaning that way) [11:10] the biggest downside that I see is that we'll still have to edit the resulting tex code (and possibly html code) to ensure perfect typography. [11:10] then again, we had to do that anyway. [12:37] Out of curiosity, is there any rule about the manual that it must be written in simple English? [12:37] synergetic: What do you mean? [12:38] godbyk: Where Simple English has a limited list of words and you only write using that vocabulary such that it's written plainly enough that anyone who can read should be able to understand it - it should also be easier to translate. [12:38] I wasn't sure if there was any set rule or if it was a general "keep it simple, use your common sense" [12:38] synergetic: There's not a set rule (yet), but it is a goal we have. [12:39] We're going to be working on a style guide to help establish some of those rules. [12:39] It's more of a KISS notion at the moment. [12:39] ah godbyk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English that being what I was thinking of, Basic English [12:40] There was some movement in the US federal government a decade or two ago to start producing materials in Plain Language, which is the same concept, instead of the standard legalese. [12:40] I'm not sure how pervasive it's become in practice, though. [12:40] but there seems to be a dozen different varieties of simplified English - wasn't sure if there was one that you all subscribed to for the purposes of the manual [12:41] We're not explicitly using any of the simplified English rules at the moment. [12:41] I doubt we'd adopt any strict rules like that. [12:42] godbyk: Not particularly pervasive, as far as I can tell - but I doubt I would have noticed either way, if I'm honest. But I do remember something about local newspapers aiming to write at a 5th Grade reading level and the New York Times writing at an 8th Grade reading level (or something like that) [12:42] But we certainly would prefer that the language be clear, concise, and readable. [12:42] Yeah, that's probably true. [12:42] I've heard similar numbers. [12:43] I've got a program someplace that I could run the manual through to calculate the reading level using different metrics. [12:43] Perhaps I'll try that later today. [12:43] I'd certainly be curious to know the results. [12:44] I'm wondering if anyone has spoken to the RockBox group - they do their manuals in LaTeX and produce both PDF and HTML documents from it [12:45] Perhaps to find out how they do their LaTeX->HTML [12:45] http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml [12:46] They're using a program called TeX4ht. [12:46] Unfortunately, TeX4ht doesn't like our XeLaTeX files. [12:47] Ahh. Ok. [12:48] yey my headset has arived [12:48] I haven't gotten around to looking at the LaTeX sources for the manual so I'm not sure how it works. I'll have to dig in to get a better idea of how it all works. Thanks godbyk! [12:49] ubuntujenkins: awesome! we'll have to test it out. [12:49] yep i will just have to get it set up right first [12:49] synergetic: no problem. if you have any questions about it, feel free to ask. [12:53] godbyk: skype test? [12:54] ubuntujenkins: sure. [12:54] I should be online. [12:55] I don't see oyu online [12:55] I don't see you online either. [12:55] Ah, there you go. [12:56] I can here you [12:56] ok [12:56] It worked a scond ago [12:57] I call you back [12:57] k [13:10] hello [13:11] hello c7p [13:13] godbyk, from what i see you managed to compile the greek manual successful with the screenshots in place , good job :) [13:14] thanks. [13:14] there may still be a few bugs in there. [13:15] yes there are but we can work on them [13:17] is there a place i can report the bugs or the work will be done through this channel ? [13:31] godbyk, how can i compile a manual with the screenshots in place ? [13:32] c7p: if you have the lucid-e1 branch files, you can just run 'make ubuntu-manual-el.pdf' [13:33] godbyk how can i get lucid-e1 branch files ? [13:33] c7p: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors [13:34] i think i should rerun the command === daker is now known as daker|afk === daker|afk is now known as daker [13:58] Hey, daker. That docbook wiki site you linked me too looks to be pretty much what we'd like to do with our site. (We'd have to overhaul the user interface and add some feature to it, but I think the underlying idea is the same.) [13:58] oki [14:15] godbyk, http://blog.astrumfutura.com/archives/369-Writing-Professional-Looking-Documentation-With-Docbook,-PHP,-Phing-and-Apache-FOP-Part-1-Getting-Started.html [14:59] I've updated the PDFs at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ === iant0 is now known as ianto [16:32] is there anywhere where new folk can introduce themselves formally? [16:33] hello synergetic, an e-mail to the list? [16:34] ubuntujenkins: Righto - I may do that, then. I wasn't sure if there was anywhere on the website that had profiles or greetings or anything [16:35] nope we have nothing like that, that is an idea for the future [16:36] ubuntujenkins: Righto - I may do that, then. I wasn't sure if there was anywhere on the website that had profiles or greetings or anything "Have a look at our Getting Started FAQ" or "Meet the Team" [16:37] argh. accidentally c/p'd away my response [16:37] lol no problem [16:37] it SHOULD have said - I had a look at "Become an Author" but I didn't see anything like "Have a look at t our Getting Started FAQ" or "Meet the Team" [16:38] add it to your e-mail as a suggestion, it would be a good idea [16:39] ubuntujenkins, it would be great if we add a factoid for this [16:39] +team [16:39] Factoid 'team' not found [16:39] :p [16:40] See if dutchie will ad it to manualbot :P [16:41] oki [16:55] godbyk, can't find a solution for my problem :s [16:55] daker: what problem are you having? [16:55] daker@ubuntu:~$ sudo mysql [16:55] ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) [16:56] you shouldn't have to run mysql as sudo. [16:56] just run mysql [16:56] but you need to tell it what to connect to (which server, databsae, etc.) [16:56] like: mysql -h localhost -u username -p databasename [16:56] then it'll prompt for the password [16:57] the same error [16:58] is the mysql server running? [16:58] i don't think [16:58] 'kay. so we need to get that running first. [16:58] are you on lucid or karmic or what? [16:58] lucid [16:59] okay, I know they changed the startup stuff, but I think the old ways may still work, too. [16:59] try: sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart [16:59] daker@ubuntu:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart [16:59] Rather than invoking init scripts through /etc/init.d, use the service(8) [16:59] utility, e.g. service mysql restart [16:59] Since the script you are attempting to invoke has been converted to an [16:59] Upstart job, you may also use the restart(8) utility, e.g. restart mysql [16:59] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [16:59] well the problem is initctl [17:00] also with the service command [17:01] try 'sudo service mysql restart' or 'sudo restart mysql' [17:01] daker@ubuntu:~$ sudo service mysql restart [17:01] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [17:01] daker@ubuntu:~$ sudo restart mysql [17:01] Warning: Fake initctl called, doing nothing. [17:02] hmm.. I have no idea what that means. [17:02] I guess ask in #ubuntu? [17:02] oki [17:08] * thorwil doesn't understand why there are so many people in #ubuntu because there are so many people there [17:10] my copy of the manual just arrived. [17:11] Waw [17:14] godbyk: whats the paper like? [17:16] godbyk, picture ? [17:16] ubuntujenkins: it's pretty decent. [17:16] I'm taking pics right now, daker [17:16] I'll upload them in just a moment. [17:16] any specific pics you guys want? [17:16] thorwil: the spine alignment looks perfect! [17:17] thorwil: and you'll be pleased to know that no heads were cropped. [17:17] excellent! :) [17:18] It will be intersting to compare against my copy [17:18] godbyk: i will appreciate sharp hi-res photos on neutral ground ;) [17:18] thorwil: I'll take some of those a bit later for ya. right now they're just lame camera phone pics in a low-lit room. [17:19] ubuntujenkins: where's that all-black grub screenshot? [17:19] I want to see what kind of ghosting there is. [17:19] hmm near the back [17:19] page 136 [17:20] /quit [17:20] oops [17:21] grr.. the lighting in this room totally sucks. [17:21] let me grab my actual camera and see if there's a better lit room for this. [17:21] be back in a few minutes (with better pics, I hope). [17:39] okay, I'm back now. [17:39] it's an overcast day, so the lighting sucks. [17:39] but I'll upload these photos for you guys. [17:40] just to see how it looks [17:43] Uploading now. [17:43] hello all [17:44] Hey, c7p. [17:44] Morning, IlyaHaykinson_. [17:44] hi godbyk [17:44] I got my copy of the manual today. Uploading some photos now. [17:44] just stopping by for a second. was buying a book on running usability research [17:45] cool. which book? [17:45] "Observing the User Exprience - A Practitioner's Guide for User Research" [17:45] By Kuniavsky? [17:46] yup [17:46] We used that for a class. [17:46] In fact, that's where my previous lulu.com experience came from. [17:46] ah nice. decent book? i saw it in a reference list [17:46] That Shiny Happy Users book on lulu is a collection of essays that my classmates and I wrote as we were reading that book. [17:46] from a presentation by some vmware guy who emailed me in response to my techwr-l [17:47] ah very cool [17:47] (At http://www.shinyhappyusers.org, you can snag a free copy of the PDF/ebook.) [17:47] hm, my lulu order is still fulfilling! [17:47] It's an okay book for getting an quick overview of the various methods of researching the user experience. [17:49] cool. well, hopefully i'll think likewise. :) [17:49] alright, emailed lulu; hopefully they can fix the order for me. [17:50] ok, gotta go. conference call in 10 mins. [17:50] l8r [17:50] see ya. [17:50] * ubuntujenkins gets the shinyhappy users podcasts [17:50] oh, dear. [17:51] I don't have time to read at the moment but i always ahve something playing [17:51] I don't know if any of my talks are there, but if so, you should know that I'm talking a mile a minute because we only have 5 minutes for each presentation. [17:51] The presentations are each really short.. 5-10 minutes. [17:51] okay, pics are up: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/photos/lucid-e1/ [17:51] nice i will listen after dinner [17:52] taken by me (and I suck at photos) using my crappy point-and-shoot camera. [17:52] so go easy on me. [17:54] the manual looks very nice on paper even without colourful print [18:00] godbyk, GREAT [18:13] godbyk: how close is the right margin on the left-hand pages? they look quite narrow in this picture: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/photos/lucid-e1/img_1918.jpg [18:15] synergetic: When you're holding the book in your hand, the margin there looks fine. [18:15] In that photo, the book was on a table, with the right-hand side lying flat on the table. [18:15] to the margin got folded around the left-hand-side page a bit. [18:16] (I couldn't hold the book open with one hand the camera at arm's length with the other hand. :)) [18:38] godbyk: cool, i was wondering that when i was looking at the PDF, too, how the margins would be when printed. if they're find then that's good ^_^ [18:39] *fine [18:39] synergetic: I was wondering, too. That's why I sprang for a printed copy -- just to make sure it all works out okay. :) [18:40] are you going to give people the option to order printed copies in the ubuntu store? [18:41] synergetic: that'd be cool, but I haven't any idea how to go about setting that up. [18:41] currently, you can purchase a printed copy via lulu.com for ~10 USD. [18:42] The PDF is also available if someone wants to take it to their local print shop. [18:42] I have no idea how that'd be set up, either - if there'd be a central printers that we'd get them from or maybe a link to lulu [18:43] I'd personally just take it to the campus print shop but then it wouldn't have that stunning binding ^_^ [18:44] thorwil's cover does package it all up quite nicely. [18:44] It's just a PDF, too. [18:44] Your campus probably has binding services available. [18:49] godbyk these talks are good watching yours now :) [18:49] ubuntujenkins: uh oh! [18:49] what's the topic? [18:49] * godbyk doesn't remember anything he said in those talks. [18:50] pesona's for a website [18:50] aha. [18:51] ubuntujenkins: Some text if you want to read along: http://kevin.godby.org/2007/02/23/using-personas-to-design-a-website-a-real-world-example/ :) [18:52] * ubuntujenkins reads along [18:52] (link to the slides is at the bottom of the post) [18:52] apparently the formatting of that blog entry didn't survive switching themes. :-( I'll have to fix that someday. [18:53] its good, now i know where all this persona stuff came from [18:54] heh [18:56] godbyk: they do have binding services but they're plain solid black binding [18:56] synergetic: Ah, bummer. [18:57] Hey, ubuntujenkins, what'd it cost you to order a copy of the book from lulu? [18:57] godbyk: is the ubuntu store on Ben's radar? [18:57] thorwil: not that I'm aware of. [18:57] godbyk: £5.17 with the FREESHIP code [18:57] there ya go, synergetic. Only five pounds! A bargain! :) [18:57] godbyk: indeed! [18:58] it took a week for me to get it from ordering it [18:58] godbyk: i've been working on bringing my grandfather over to ubuntu but he doesn't trust anything that doesn't come with a comprehensive manual [18:59] godbyk: it'd be a help ^_^ [18:59] synergetic: I don't blame him! [18:59] I miss good manuals. [18:59] godbyk: I'd read an article the other day on the iPad coming without a manual. The fellow writing it lamenting the loss of good manuals. I'll see if I can find it if you'd like? [19:00] While the doc team complains about overlapping audiences and material, I think a printed book reaches people who would never click System > Help and Support. [19:00] godbyk: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/ipad-manual-not-included-1956027.html [19:00] neat, thanks! [19:00] godbyk: also the book is quicker to find vs loading time of yelp [19:00] :P [19:00] godbyk: There was a book that came out explaining the last LTS but it was out-of-date by the time I wanted to put ubuntu on my grandfather's computer. [19:00] Yeah, O'Reilly (I think) has an entire series of books called 'The Missing Manuals'. [19:01] ubuntujenkins: ha! so true. [19:01] though our index needs a lot of work. (it's on my to do list for the second edition.) [19:03] godbyk, the problem has been solved [19:03] daker: excellent! how did you fix it? [19:05] @Waver from #ubuntu-ma [19:05] daker: Error: "Waver" is not a valid command. [19:06] well there a lot of command that i typed [19:06] are* [19:06] but the one that should work is : [19:06] apt-get install --reinstall upstart [19:06] ah. [19:06] apt-get install --reinstall mysql-server [20:32] godbyk: I liked your talk, listening to more now i am back from shopping [20:32] ubuntujenkins: Cool, thanks. [20:32] ubuntujenkins: I may have more on my blog that aren't in that podcast. I don't remember. [20:33] godbyk: I will have a look [20:33] I sometimes tried to find things to discuss that would cause discussion and debate. (I enjoy playing devil's advocate, what can I say?) [20:53] godbyk: pauvcontrol on the configuration tab if you change you Internal audio to "off". Does the sound controls then work on your headset? It does for me I am trying to work out the command that it calls so I can try and write a udev rule [20:54] not that i have written one before but still [21:01] godbyk do you have some time to fix some bugs on the greek manual ? [21:02] c7p: is it compiling errors? If so i will try, i am not sure godbyk is here right now [21:02] ubuntujenkins: I think I just went to the audio preferences in gnome and selected the thing I wanted the buttons to control.. the default volume whatchamacallit. [21:02] ubuntujenkins, no [21:03] c7p: sure. what's up? [21:04] godbyk, i think some margin notes should be placed on another position on the page [21:04] c7p: yes, that's definitely true. [21:04] godbyk: I will have a dig, now that the sound preferences is silly its harder to find stuff [21:05] what can we do about it ? [21:05] the process I went through for the english version was to fix everything else first and then move the margin notes to where they should be. [21:05] well, it involves moving the lines of code around, so we have to wait until the translation is completely finished, edited, and approved first. [21:05] then we can move them around to where they need to go. [21:06] (otherwise you'll have to retranslate a ton of stuff) [21:07] the translation is 100% completed and reviewed, on the translation and review part the job is finished [21:09] so you're promising there are no spelling errors, etc.? [21:09] so we can move on :) [21:09] does it compile cleanly with no errors and warnings? (excluding marginpar warnings) [21:10] we spend this week only reviewing and correcting the string [21:10] s [21:16] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/429696/ [21:17] Success! Wrote 178 pages [21:19] godbyk is this a clean compilation :/ ? [21:22] It looks like there are a lot of overfull boxes. Usually this means the hyphenation isn't working. Let me poke around a bit and see if I can fix that. [21:23] ok [21:23] ah [21:23] Also, on my end the index isn't compiling (which is a problem with the Makefile, not your tex stuff.) [21:23] 'overfull box' just means 'the line was too long and tex couldn't find a good way to wrap it' [21:24] the pdf on the "builds" is a bit diffirent from the one i have compiled (your's has less mistakes) [21:24] thank you for the information [21:25] some questions so I can set up the language stuff properly: [21:25] monotonic, polytonic, or ancient? [21:25] monotonic [21:25] greek or arabic numerals? (for page numbers and numered lists) [21:26] lists on english is with arabic numerals right? [21:26] arabic numerals [21:27] yeah, lists in the english version are using arabic numerals. [21:28] use arabic numerals [21:28] or I guess we can use the acrophonic numbering system (see unicode characters U+10140 through U+10174) [whatever this means] [21:28] okay [21:29] evening [21:30] hey, dutchie [21:30] g evening dutchie [21:30] hello dutchie [21:31] * dutchie is tired [21:31] * ubuntujenkins so am i [21:33] godbyk: I can't find where to set these buttons. I think it may be this new audio control thing (2 releases old) [21:33] ah, could be. [21:34] that's just where I went on karmic. [21:34] I haven't looked in lucid yet. [21:42] brb [21:45] how is it going godbyk ? [21:46] c7p: I think I have that language stuff sorted, but the index is complaining. [21:46] trying to sort that now. [21:46] I've always hated the indexing programs. they're so picky and never tell you anything useful. [21:46] :/ i wish i could help [21:47] me too. :) [22:15] night all [22:16] night ubuntujenkins [22:20] g'night, ubuntujenkins. [22:28] godbyk it's about 00:30 here, i can stay if you need me something [22:31] c7p: nah, I'm gonna have to poke around some more to work out the indexing thing. [22:32]