[00:00] Nearly time === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux [00:00] hey : ) [00:00] Heya [00:01] we starting now? [00:01] kidtp: In a minute or so [00:01] kidtp: soon [00:01] ok [00:01] are there rules? [00:02] 'lo [00:02] Newcomer brings the beer kidtp ;) [00:02] Silver_Fox_: be good foxy [00:02] lol [00:02] haha im a little under aged for beer [00:02] im sorry lol [00:03] * man0riaX gives everyone beer. [00:03] Sugar is also acceptable ;) [00:03] * ZachK_ will take the sugar...for the iced tea [00:03] Who wants to run this meeting ? [00:03] bodhi_zazen: you? lol [00:03] who is in charge? [00:04] I would but apparently I'm not here bodhi_zazen ;) [00:04] Hi [00:04] 'lo team [00:04] heya ibuclaw [00:04] nhandler: ping [00:04] #startmeeting [00:04] Meeting started at 18:04. The chair is ibuclaw. [00:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [00:04] OK, who is here? [00:04] o/ [00:04] o/ [00:04] o/ [00:04] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:04] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings [00:04] o/ [00:04] o/ [00:04] o/ [00:05] o/ [00:05] * ZachK_ is here [00:05] o/ [00:05] o/ [00:05] o/ [00:05] what are we doing? :( [00:06] attendance [00:06] o/ [00:06] ? [00:06] sorry [00:06] o? [00:06] o/ [00:06] OK, what is first on the agenda? [00:06] although I have to leave in 25 min or so ... [00:07] [TOPIC] FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read [00:07] New Topic: FAQ page needs attention, it is messy and difficult to read [00:07] Doesn't look like Bodsda is here [00:08] ZachK_: This would probably be another good task for the Wiki FG to work on [00:08] nhandler: ok [00:08] ibuclaw: link for that page? [00:08] [LINK] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ [00:08] LINK received: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/FAQ [00:08] I presume he means that page [00:08] ibuclaw: i'll get to work on that after i finish writing a tutorial [00:08] for the forums [00:09] which overall, feels kinda out of place compared to the rest of the /Beginners pages [00:09] thank-you ZachK_ [00:09] is anyone aware of which page it might be reffering to as (duplication)? [00:09] ibuclaw: :) [00:09] signposts [00:10] much of the rest of the wiki... [00:10] Rocket2DMn: agreed [00:10] It seems like that FAQ page is pretty repetitive [00:10] that page has probably been superseded by Signpost [00:11] So link to appropriatte content that exists on the wiki where possible [00:11] Rocket2DMn: think we should just delete it then? [00:12] ZachK_, perhaps replace it with a link to another project [00:12] ie: Ubuntu Manual [00:12] if anywhere, back to the wiki homepage [00:12] o/ [00:13] or at least - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Questions#help [00:13] Rocket2DMn: you wanna do that then? [00:13] 'lo cjohnston - have something to add? Or just saying hi. :) [00:13] saying hi [00:13] Rocket2DMn: or do you want me to do it [00:13] hey cjohnston [00:13] I will have something to add to the end though.. [00:14] go for it ZachK_ , please check pages that link to it and either remove links or adjust accordingly [00:14] i believe you know how to handle the wiki, ZachK_ [00:14] Rocket2DMn: yes i do... [00:14] ;) [00:15] so, no more FAQ? [00:15] ibuclaw: You might want to give ZachK_ the [action] [00:16] [ACTION] ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page [00:16] ACTION received: ZachK_ to clean up Beginners FAQ page [00:16] * ZachK_ shall do so...when he's done with his UF Tutorial [00:16] :) [00:16] malev: just take advantage of existing documentation [00:17] I assume no objects and everyone in agreement? :) [00:17] ZachK_, again, thank-you. [00:17] ibuclaw: It is a wiki page. Anyone can edit it if necessary [00:17] I agree! [00:17] o/ [00:17] nhandler, true. [00:17] sounds good to me [00:17] ibuclaw: no prob [00:17] ibuclaw: it's what I'm here for [00:18] I'll have a topic when everyone is done if that's ok [00:18] OK, anything else before we move on? [00:18] 3, 2, 1... [00:18] move on! [00:18] [TOPIC] Replace VoteBot with ubottu [00:18] New Topic: Replace VoteBot with ubottu [00:18] nhandler, you are leading this discussion... [00:19] +1 [00:19] =) [00:19] and yes, +1 [00:19] =) [00:19] i'm honestly not sure what the differences are. i like ubottu, but i'm more familiar with it so i'm biased =p [00:19] Well, the only feature from VoteBot that we actually still need are the factoids. This can be provided by ubottu [00:19] who created votebot? [00:19] ubottu also adds a few other features such as fetching URLs for bugs and !info and stuff like that [00:19] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [00:19] nhandler: are the factiods channel specific ? [00:19] duanedesign: I did [00:19] duanedesign, nhandler did [00:20] +1 for bug links [00:20] bodhi_zazen: They can be, but we really have no realy factoids that are not jokes [00:20] bug links are nice, i use them all the time in other channels [00:20] We are removing one of the more fun elements from the team ? [00:20] Well, some factiods are probably best ##ubuntu-offtopic - at best [00:20] that would be my only concern. Make sure the author is ok with it. [00:21] Rocket2DMn: +1 [00:21] The factoids are part of what made this team what it is IMO [00:21] I would -1 migrating the factiods [00:21] ZachK_: If that is the case, you have some major misconceptions of the team [00:21] And I really do not want to go through them one - by -one [00:21] The team is about helping ZachK_ [00:21] Rocket2DMn, does ubottu integrate bug links? [00:21] ibuclaw: yes [00:21] bug 1 [00:21] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout) [00:22] nhandler: I'm not saying that Factoids are what the team is about...I'm saying that it just seems to me that it's what makes us a little different [00:22] and fails spectacularly at the Bug Description... ;) [00:22] ibuclaw: not normally =p [00:23] bug 554185 [00:23] lol [00:23] yes, so...ubottu is not making its case atm >.> [00:23] Launchpad bug 554185 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Preferences app field values should update periodically" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554185 [00:23] ddecator: ^^^ [00:23] \o/ [00:24] Okay, so its slow... :) [00:24] also not normally, haha [00:24] At least it pulled the info down [00:24] So does anyone else see any other real reason to keep VoteBot? [00:24] it also has support for upstream trackers (not sure if that's a default or just in -bugs) [00:24] ZachK_, IMO - Votebot has been deprecated in this team for quite some time. [00:24] ibuclaw: Yep. It doesn't serve much use now that we are an official Ubuntu team and hold meetings in here [00:25] +1 re: votebot == depreciated , lol [00:25] * ZachK_ agrees [00:25] It was a very nice bot nhandler , thank you for making it [00:25] lol @ bodhi_zazen [00:25] bodhi_zazen: Yep. It served its purpose, but now it is time to move on [00:25] vote or just axe it ? [00:26] ok [00:26] bodhi_zazen: No more votes at meetings, remember [00:26] i think it has the majority, haha [00:26] how many channels still use Votebot? [00:26] ibuclaw: Only the BT channels use it [00:26] +#ubuntu-beginners-council +#ubuntu-beginners-team [00:26] OK, so no notice is required for other teams / etc. :) [00:26] ibuclaw: And all the FG channels and -beginners [00:26] #ubuntu-beginners ? [00:27] ibuclaw: Nope [00:27] So the council will vote on the issue, but based on the discussion, it looks like VoteBot will be leaving us soon [00:28] well, we need an [ACTION] or {AGREED] , IMHO [00:28] Any more comments about this topic? [00:28] nhandler: -wiki doesn't have Votebot so ya know [00:28] i think we're set [00:28] bodhi_zazen: Not really, this is just for discussion (like a ML discussion) [00:29] The action will come based on the council's decision [00:29] [ACTION] BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu [00:29] ACTION received: BT Council to vote on replacing VoteBot with ubottu [00:30] TY ibuclaw [00:30] last subject [00:30] [TOPIC] Membership Requirements [00:30] New Topic: Membership Requirements [00:30] nhandler, off to you again. [00:30] those tags [ACTION] make the logs MUCH EASIER to review later =) [00:30] ha, i was just asking swoody about this (kinda) [00:31] bodhi_zazen, compared to .action .topic and the like? [00:31] ibuclaw: MootBot picks up [ACTION] [00:31] Well, I am failing to find the link. If anyone has it, please post it [00:31] yes, and better then no MARKS in the LOGS [00:31] But basically, paultag started working on some criteria we can use when determining whether to accept someone as a BT member [00:32] nhandler: link for? [00:32] Currently, it focuses a bit too much on numbers/stats imo. But I wanted to get some feedback on what everyone thought some good criteria for being a UBT member would be [00:32] ZachK_: The criteria wiki page [00:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership [00:32] that it? [00:33] i think having the CoC signed isn't too much to ask [00:33] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria [00:33] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Paultag/UBTCriteria [00:34] I like the recommendation from someone outside of BT that is recognized in their area of the community. [00:34] +1 signed CoC [00:34] It is nto *that* hard to sign, [00:34] The requirements on the Membership page really aren't that bad. It is the UBTCriteria page I really wanted feedback on [00:34] I like the changes but I don't see "Have at least one recommendation from someone outside of the Beginners Team who can attest to the quality of your contribution" a must [00:35] PabloRubianes: We were trying to avoid having people who *only* participate in the UBT channels [00:35] If they are working with a FG, they will be active in other parts of the community, and should be working with people outside the team [00:35] so each sections applies depending on what FG a person applies for, yes? [00:35] nhandler: good [00:36] ddecator: "applies" probably isn't the best word. They are just some criteria that can be used to judge the work a person has done in a certain area [00:36] Like I said, I feel it focuses too much on #s [00:36] yah, maybe it should be more like a bug-control application? email and provide links that demonstrate and understanding of how things work [00:36] s/and/an [00:37] nhandler: I don't feel that a procurement of Wiki pages that the Candidate has worked on would be a good requirement as most new people don't know how to edit the wiki...I'd make it an option at the very least like, "If you have made any contribution to the Ubuntu Wiki list them here" or something [00:37] ddecator: That wouldn't work as well for other areas of the community [00:37] ZachK_: New people probably aren't ready to join the team. They should work with a FG until they are ready [00:37] how about some requirement for the IRC FG? Perhaps 2 or 3 testimonials - again from people well known in the community, inside or out of the BT [00:38] nhandler: true [00:38] nhandler: and the Wiki FG would probably be easier than most [00:38] nhandler, so we are moving to a more close knit group then. [00:38] It would be great to have the different FGs brainstorm some criteria that would be useful in evaluating the work a person has done in a certain area. Remember, it should be stuff like "The # of wiki pages edited" instead of "Edited at least X wiki pages" [00:39] ibuclaw: The idea is to have some real requirements instead of just "hang around for a month and get voted in" [00:39] We want to also ensure our members are qualified [00:39] Are we suggesting that "You must help outside of UBT" ? [00:39] nhandler: I agree with that... [00:39] Silver_Fox_: Yes. The FGs would help with that. Most of them already interact with other teams in the community [00:39] i.e. Wiki FG works with the Doc Team [00:40] Silver_Fox_: well shouldn't we try to be the team that Produces people who move on to the Ubuntu community on a large scale? [00:40] nhandler, that I can agree on. But having the FGs as an entry point onto the team? And main membership granted with merits later? [00:40] true, the FG members can be members of other teams that help introduce new people to the workflow of the different areas [00:40] I think it is important that as we adopt as a part of our mission help new users not only with Ubuntu but with the community that prospective members can be new to the community. [00:40] well, "members" of other teams, not that it's a requirement i suppose (unless you decide it should be) [00:41] As opposed to main membership first ... then the *possibility* of joining an FG, *if* the member doesn't laze about. [00:41] one thing... [00:41] duanedesign: *Prospective* members can be new to the community. But until they learn and are ready to actually help in their area of interest, they should remain *prospective* [00:41] I thought the idea was for the BT to point people in the direction of the wider community, not have it a prerequisite for joining the BT. I saw it more of a stepping stone if you will. [00:41] nhandler: +1 [00:41] Silver_Fox_: The FGs are that bridge to the community [00:42] I think only bt member can be really part of the FG on launchpad... otherwise they recive the BTmember sign even if they are not members... [00:43] nhandler: but if you make it so that people can just join an FG and then do work in that most people won't try to attain any more that that...most want recognition for the Label...not what they themselves have actually done [00:43] PabloRubianes: That is correct. But that shoul not stop them from participating with a FG [00:43] yes, but somewhere it must say that, on the new membership process wiki [00:43] ZachK_ If their only reason for joining the team is to say they are a member of the UBT, they probably shouldn't be a part of the team [00:44] I think there are two cases here. 1. Someone who wants to participate in the community *and* help others do this. They would be joining the team. 2. Users we help join the community but are interested in being a member and helping others do the same [00:44] PabloRubianes, nothing official yet. This is just a proposal for a revision. [00:44] ok [00:44] s/are/are not [00:46] If we make it so that you can join say a part of the team but not all until you "Prove yourself" than what good is that? If a person is going to be a prospective member to the UBT make it so that they are a Prospective member to all aspects of the team..including FG's [00:46] Well, it is clear more discussion is needed before any vote can take place. We should probably get the different views documented on the wiki or ML [00:47] ZachK_: Well, they aren't really joining the FG. They are just working with them [00:47] nhandler: ok...just making sure of that [00:48] nhandler: personally I feel that you shouldn't be able to join one until you are a full member of the BT but that's My opinion [00:49] A difference exists between joining and helping a focus group [00:49] Can FGs work on updating the criteria wiki page for some good criteria to judge contributions in their respective areas? Revisions to the membership page (in a new Comments section at the bottom) would also be helpful [00:49] Silver_Fox_, precisely [00:49] nhandler: I'll definitely do that for the Wiki Section [00:50] i do think part of the membership process should involve encouraging prospective members to check out the various FGs (not require, but encourage them so they can try new things) [00:50] Having the different views documented on the wiki should help the council make a decision [00:50] Am I correct in understanding that it is unlikely that if someone only helps out with a FG they are not going to become full members of UBT ? [00:50] Silver_Fox_: No [00:50] Okay, good :) [00:51] Any more comments? [00:51] none here [00:52] nhandler: I had the SoD topic if that's ok [00:52] gotta run =) [00:52] nhandler: i forgot to put it on the meeting page [00:52] and today during UDS there was some discussion about the team and its role in helping people get involved in the community. Overall it was a positive response. I felt like Jono and others on the community team were willing to provide advice/input. Might be a resource we should utilize. [00:52] bye bo^H^H^H [00:52] duanedesign: I want to talk on that tonight if we get to it before I crash [00:52] Well, I'm done. ibuclaw you're up Mr. Chair [00:54] is that it for agenda items? [00:54] Silver_Fox_, I don't think it is necessary to help out in BT to be part of this team (for example my role has changed wildly in the last 2 years) - I think the new criteria should provoke a push for FGs to get more *out there* and active in Ubuntu. [00:54] * nhandler -> dinner [00:54] duanedesign: I had one... [00:55] nhandler, okies [00:55] Activity should be encouraged ibuclaw :) [00:56] [ACTION] Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki [00:56] ACTION received: Membership Requirements to be discussed on ML and wiki [00:57] Silver_Fox_, indeed - as opposed to just dawdling ... (*cough*) That FG shame remain nameless, but I'll be poking around some time later. >:) [00:57] ZachK_, you have a final topic? [00:57] ibuclaw: i do [00:57] so does cjohnston [00:57] I have no idea to what you refer ibuclaw ;) [00:58] [TOPIC] Summer of Documentation Project [00:58] New Topic: Summer of Documentation Project [00:59] ZachK_, fire away [00:59] ibuclaw: Thanks...Ok I'm sure most of you have received one or more emails from me regarding the Summer of Documentation Project...any questions on that? [00:59] I always liked the Summer of Documentation Project. [00:59] I think it is a good idea [01:00] I'm welcoming Ideas, input, and especially help [01:00] i can help after i'm done with school [01:00] it should be called Summer/winter [01:00] The Wiki FG has been somewhat slim regarding Members.....and contributions [01:01] Any questions/ideas anyone? [01:01] ZachK_, As I said earlier, I am happy to help with SOD again. [01:01] :) [01:01] Silver_Fox_: ok join the wiki fg channel... [01:02] ZachK_: a howto of sorts will help =) [01:02] ddecator: ok....good idea that [01:02] ZachK_, Has the list been updated ? [01:02] PabloRubianes: haha pablo has a point. It is winter down South. :) [01:02] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010 [01:02] Silver_Fox_: list? [01:02] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2010 [01:02] TY ibuclaw [01:02] ZachK_, List of pages that require attention [01:03] :) [01:03] Those who wish to participate, please bookmark that. =) [01:03] ZachK_: for example, i have the content almost done for the software center page (just need some more screenshots) but idk how to format the page, so i'll probably just go into a finished one and copy the formatting, but a wiki detailing everything would help [01:03] I think we have some new people who speak spanish arround now, so do it it in spanish is ok? Documentation in Spanish is not so good... [01:03] * ddecator bookmarks page [01:04] ddecator: ok I'll put a link on the Wiki FG page as there is already a wiki page with formating help on it [01:04] ZachK_: but for BT pages specifically? [01:04] ddecator: the format is the same for all wiki pages... [01:05] PabloRubianes, go for it. =) [01:05] ZachK_: but i mean like the navigation area at the top of main pages that are for BT pages [01:05] ddecator: that would be the /include bt header [01:06] cjohnston: are you still with us? [01:06] ddecator: i'll tell you all about it later [01:06] yes [01:06] ZachK_: well then mention it on a wiki, because i had no idea =p [01:06] ibuclaw: unless anybody else has anything more that's all i got [01:06] ok, thank-you ZachK_ [01:06] ibuclaw: yup [01:06] * ZachK_ out [01:07] I'm hoping to see more members contribute this year. =) [01:07] +1 [01:07] ibuclaw: as am i [01:07] Am I up? [01:07] cjohnston: yuppers [01:07] Okie... [01:07] Today at UDS we had a session on fixing this page: [01:07] IMO - Open Source documentation is lagging behind the FAST development pace [01:07] http://www.ubuntu.com/community [01:07] LINK received: http://www.ubuntu.com/community [01:07] duanedesign participated remotely with us [01:07] cjohnston, wait for it =) [01:07] topic? [01:08] umm [01:08] UDS Community Involvement discussion [01:08] without the spelling errors [01:09] I see none =) [01:09] [TOPIC] UDS Community Involvement discussion [01:09] New Topic: UDS Community Involvement discussion [01:09] take it away then. [01:09] Ok.. Today at UDS we had a session about fixing this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community [01:09] duanedesign participated remotely with us.. [01:09] I think we had some good ideas... [01:10] Currently there are a couple problems with the page.. [01:10] 1) it looks old [01:10] 2) some of the pages under it arent really correct [01:10] oh yah, i remember seeing this page when i was first getting involved and i wasn't sure where i was supposed to go.. [01:10] so we want to redeisgn the page to 1) provide accurate information on getting involved with the community [01:11] and 2) update it to the new "light" theme of Ubuntu [01:11] We want the end result to look similar to: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/1004features [01:11] The top set of images (header image) will be pictures of people (contributors, users, etc) [01:11] under that... [01:12] Each of the "sections" that are there now will be changed to different ways to get involved [01:12] So the current browse the web could be something like Documentation [01:12] More Human, less Tango? [01:12] yes [01:12] with a little discription of what is involved in documentation [01:13] and a link to get more info on what documentation means and how to get involed [01:13] we want to include the different ways to contribute to ubuntu [01:13] and really just make the page better [01:13] we are planning on waiting to sstart this IIRC until the new website design is relased [01:13] hopefully soon [01:13] but duanedesign and I had mentioned that since the BT is wanting to focus on helping users become contributors [01:14] this may be something good for us to help work on [01:14] I just wanted to see if any members had any interest in helping out with redoing this pagr [01:14] page [01:14] I would be up for helping out [01:14] cjohnston, so is the design on the main Ubuntu site you linked open to anyone to help out? [01:14] [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community [01:15] LINK received: http://www.ubuntu.com/community [01:15] and if so, we will get together with jono at some point, and go over what he is wanting from this, and bounce ideas off each other and make it happen [01:15] i think anything the team can do here would be good. [01:15] ibuclaw: we will design the new page, and then after being approved by jono, he will submit it to the proper authorities to get it changed [01:15] cjohnston: I can't help with design stuff, but in terms of the content that should go on there, I can help with that [01:15] we wont be able to edit that page directly [01:16] cjohnston, just confirming what I thought was the case, thanks. [01:16] Bleh, the page links to projects, not teams :( [01:16] nhandler: that sounds good.. i think we almost more need help with the content more than the design just because ultimatly the design will have to be done by the webmaster [01:16] and the website team [01:16] cjohnston: An email to the ML asking for volunteers might also be handy [01:16] but we can provide them with the mock design (working preferably) to go off [01:16] of [01:16] nhandler: sounds like a good idea [01:16] ill have to try to remember that [01:17] cjohnston: ill try and help with that ;) [01:17] i can help with bugsquad related material if it's needed [01:18] here is some notes from that session. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/community-m-improvement-ubuntu-community-pages [01:18] Ok.. so nhandler and duanedesign are interested.. I'm going to send an email to the ML at some point, hopefully soon, and solicit more help.. Like I said, it may be a litte while before the real work starts, however we could technically start gathering content now, and just put the content into place once we have the design to work off of [01:18] and ddecator [01:18] thanks duanedesign [01:19] thank you cjohnston for representing th BT at UDS [01:19] and I did put it into a gobby doc (not that it matters) afterwords [01:19] np [01:19] thanks for being there to help me with that [01:19] I had to represent a team im not even a part of earlier :-x [01:19] because they werent there but i kinda agreed with their points [01:19] but thats off topic [01:19] IMO - I think this is a great opportunity for the team to proves themselves and give out a solid point of recognition =) [01:19] ibuclaw: absolutly [01:19] ibuclaw: +100 [01:20] ibuclaw: +1 [01:20] as duanedesign will attest, jono had mentioned that the BT has been off his radar... [01:20] and I think this would be a great way to get the BT on his radar [01:20]