[07:37] <tmzt> Stskeeps: hey :)
[07:37] <tmzt> can somebody point me at uds channel for this topic for tomorrow?
[07:51] <plars> tmzt: they are actually about to get started, but are scattered in different rooms
[07:52] <plars> tmzt: see: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/track/ubuntu_on_arm/
[07:52] <plars> tmzt: typically, the channels take the form of #ubuntu-uds-ROOMNAME, where the room name can be found in that link
[07:54] <plars> tmzt: so for example, the ASoC discussion will be in mahogony, so #ubuntu-uds-mahogony.  However since it's live, you would just have 1 way communication on irc to ask questions.  To know what's going on, you will want to listen to the icecast stream
[07:57] <tmzt> thanks
[07:58] <tmzt> what timezone in the panel clock?
[07:58] <tmzt> oh, got it
[07:58] <tmzt> it's later than I thought
[08:01] <DanaG> Is there an all-discussions stream?
[08:01] <DanaG> Or are there multiple things at the same time?
[08:01] <DanaG> And do they create transcripts?
[08:02] <tmzt> everything is in one room?
[08:02] <tmzt> there seem to be two talks (X/dpkg for ex) at the same time
[08:02] <tmzt> in one track
[08:03] <tmzt> oh, the room is under the title
[08:03] <DanaG> I greatly prefer transcripts.
[08:03] <DanaG> It takes me 5 minutes to read something that could take 45 minutes to listen to.
[08:08] <tmzt> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/05/04/uds-m-remote-participation/
[08:09] <DanaG> oh, and I want glx_ext_texture_from_pixmap
[08:09] <Stskeeps> don't we all
[08:09] <Stskeeps> :P
[08:10] <DanaG> That's 99% of my Linux 3D stuff I use regularly: compiz.
[08:10] <DanaG> Or how about reviving that old XGL... on top of GL ES?
[08:10] <hrw-uds> hi
[08:11] <tmzt> doesn't gallium have some kind of es emulation now?
[08:11] <DanaG> What timezone is uds in, anyway?
[08:11] <DanaG> Oh, and fglrx claims to have some GL_ES strings.... wonder how you'd use that.
[08:11] <hrw-uds> DanaG: european one
[08:11] <hrw-uds> DanaG: 09:11 here
[08:11] <DanaG> Probably it's as xvba-video was: not public.
[08:12] <DanaG> s/was/is/
[08:12] <tmzt> it's a state tracker
[08:18] <tmzt> anybody who can comment on why recent ubuntu releases are limited to armv6mmu and if that is changing with the new branching/repo strategy?
[08:18] <hrw-uds> tmzt: armv6? lucid is armv7a
[08:19] <tmzt> right, so more generally why is this required?
[08:19] <tmzt> how many packages of the full repo actually require neon or vfp
[08:19] <lool> tmzt: All of main was rebuilt for the v7t2 transition
[08:19] <lool> So all of them  :-)
[08:20] <DanaG> http://sourceware.org/redboot/
[08:20] <DanaG> er
[08:20] <DanaG> wrong link
[08:20] <DanaG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/ARMSoftbootLoader
[08:20] <lool> tmzt: The point is to take advantage of v7 and thumb2 instructions
[08:20] <tmzt> I'm aware of the requirement, I'm asking for what the justification might have been
[08:20] <DanaG> That reminds me of the Angstrom "kexecboot" loader on Zaurus.
[08:20] <tmzt> since only certain packages should benefit from those
[08:20] <hrw-uds> tmzt: get as much as possible from cpu?
[08:20] <lool> tmzt: No, everything benefits from it
[08:20]  * DanaG scrolls down and sees that mentioned.
[08:21] <lool> tmzt: thumb2 is smaller and fits better in cache
[08:21] <tmzt> this has made projects such as rhobuntu and mer difficult to support a broad range of hardware with vanilla ubuntu repos
[08:21] <lool> the more code in cache, the faster
[08:21] <DanaG> "that" being "kexecboot"
[08:21] <tmzt> so all packages are now thumb2 code?
[08:21] <lool> tmzt: Sure, but if we kept v5 only, we'd be irrelevant for v7 projects
[08:21] <lool> tmzt: thumb2 is the compiled code
[08:21] <lool> it's instructions
[08:22] <tmzt> I can understand that for, say, gstreamer codecs
[08:22] <lool> tmzt: It really benefits everything
[08:22] <lool> tmzt: It's not like neon
[08:22] <lool> tmzt: what you say would typically apply for neon
[08:23] <lool> since most packages dont take advantage of it, and the toolchain doesn't use much of it when it can
[08:23] <lool> tmzt: But when you tell gcc/gas that they should generate thumb2, it makes a big difference because they will generate 16-bits opcodes instead of 32-bits ones
[08:23] <tmzt> how much of an improvement is thumb2 over thumb?
[08:23] <lool> In the end, all the little libraries and programs fit better in cache
[08:24] <DanaG> UEFI ARM?  That's an odd idea.
[08:24] <lool> tmzt: It's mostly an improvement in code coverage
[08:24] <lool> tmzt: it wasn't really possible to use thumb for everything
[08:24] <tmzt> but the compiler would fall back to arm when thumb didn't support the needed instruction?
[08:26] <DanaG> Thu May 13 00:26:10 PDT 2010
[08:26] <DanaG> time for me to go to bed. =þ
[08:27] <DanaG> Anyway, I suppose the eventual blueprints will be enough of a "transcript" (or rather, will distill down the overall points).
[08:28] <lool> tmzt: Yes, you'd have to switch back and forth
[08:28] <DanaG> Or stream in stereo.
[08:28] <DanaG> Left side in one room, right in the other.
[08:28] <DanaG> =þ
[08:29] <DanaG> http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/24978.php
[08:29] <DanaG> Nifty.
[08:29] <DanaG> UEFI including ARM.
[08:30] <DanaG> Now... we just need Ubuntu to support UEFI!
[08:31] <DanaG> Actually, I can imagine HP, for example, liking that.... they already use UEFI on their business laptops.
[08:34] <crimsun> cf. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/MaverickUefiSupport
[08:35] <crimsun> which was discussed the first day ;)
[08:35] <DanaG> Sweet.
[08:36] <DanaG> I've messed with UEFI on my laptop... first-gen Elitebook.  Has somewhat broken memory map.
[08:36] <tmzt> is there any public discussion of qualcomm kernel-qcm?
[10:32] <markos_> has anyone tried to build mysql-server from the source package (karmic) on arm? version mysql-dfsg-5.1_5.1.37-1ubuntu5.1, here's the pbuilder log: http://pastebin.com/Y7fwHrV7
[10:33] <markos_> no matter if I build it using pbuilder or without, I get the same result
[10:33] <markos_> I'll file a bug report, but I thought I'd ask here first just in case anyone else has seen this before
[10:35] <hrw-uds> markos_: no idea - I am new member of ubuntu/arm team
[10:36] <markos_> hrw-uds: congrats then :)
[10:36] <hrw-uds> thx
[11:16] <ogra> NCommander, around ?
[11:18] <NCommander> ogra: yeah, I'm in the basement
[11:18] <NCommander> ogra: where are you?
[11:18] <ogra> NCommander, in the UI heads session
[11:19] <ogra> NCommander, so i talked to colin
[11:19] <NCommander> ogra: (I've been having some thoughts about doing hd-install, and I'm not sure this is the proper solution)
[11:19] <ogra> NCommander, after a bit of going back and forth we came to the conclusion that actually the best solution is an OEM image
[11:19] <NCommander> ogra: ?
[11:20] <ogra> its trivial to change livecd-rootfs to omit casper and instead add oem-config.-gtk
[11:20] <NCommander> ogra: didn't I suggest that earlier?
[11:20] <ogra> roll a live image thats going to a real FS on antimony
[11:20] <NCommander> ogra: its not a bad idea expect then we need a way to resize the DD'ed SD card image
[11:21] <ogra> nah, leave it to the user to add more partitions, we can put gparted in
[11:21] <NCommander> ogra: I thought your objection to doing oem-config in place of ubiquity was a speed issue and such
[11:21] <ogra> it is
[11:21] <NCommander> ogra: ugh, that stinks of HACK
[11:21] <ogra> but we need to fix that anyway
[11:21] <NCommander> ogra: fair enough. if a live image is acceptable, this works for me.
[11:22] <ogra> well, its not a live image
[11:22] <NCommander> ogra: since its trivial to drop ubiquity (we just need to change the second package installation pass)
[11:22] <ogra> its essentially a rootfs on a artitioned image
[11:22] <NCommander> ogra: well, from the perspective of image building :-)
[11:22] <ogra> *partitioned
[11:22] <NCommander> er
[11:22] <NCommander> hrm
[11:22] <NCommander> actually
[11:22] <NCommander> tihs is a new type of image now that I think of it
[11:22] <NCommander> since we'll have no squashfs
[11:22] <ogra> right
[11:22] <ogra> we only use the squashfs as a base
[11:23] <NCommander> ogra: I rather just have it dump a tarball and let antimony learn how to deal with it; it will greatly reduce build time
[11:23] <ogra> but do the content copying that ubiquity would usualy do during image build
[11:23] <NCommander> squashing an image takes ~1 h
[11:23] <ogra> yeah, true, we can add such a function
[11:23] <NCommander> ogra: /etc/fstab, /etc/passwd, /etc/group
[11:23] <NCommander> f-k-i will have to be run
[11:23] <ogra> the only thing that concerns me a bit is the actual image size
[11:24] <ogra> you dont need fstab beyond proc
[11:24] <NCommander> ogra: we might want to look at using livehelper instead, since this looks like a massive pain to hack onto livecd-rootfs
[11:24] <NCommander> oh
[11:24] <NCommander> fair enough
[11:24] <ogra> passwd and group are set up by oem-config
[11:24] <NCommander> ogra: but then there won't be an fstab entry for /
[11:24] <ogra> you dont need one
[11:24] <NCommander> ogra: I thought oem-config needs an account added to run at boot time
[11:24] <ogra> it doesnt
[11:24] <NCommander> casper makes one for the livecd environment, and the installer adds an ubuntu:ubuntu user for first boot
[11:24] <ogra> it adds one actually :)
[11:25] <ogra> thats the live session
[11:25] <ogra> oem-config doesnt need any user
[11:25] <NCommander> ogra: then what user does GDM log in as?
[11:25] <ogra> so i'd like to build two kinds of images ...
[11:25] <ogra> there is no gdm running, oem-config is the DM
[11:25] <NCommander> DM?
[11:26] <ogra> display manager
[11:26] <NCommander> ogra: the dm is started up by GDM, which is set to autologin on first boot with oem-config
[11:26] <ogra> an oem-config image boots into a stripped down ubiquity
[11:26] <ogra> ad the DM
[11:26] <ogra> instead of GDM
[11:26] <NCommander> I've got to be missing something
[11:26] <NCommander> But that's fine
[11:26] <ogra> yes :)
[11:27] <NCommander> ogra: er, ubiquity launchs GDM though in all cases though ...
[11:27] <ogra> try a rootstock build and install oem-config-gtk in it
[11:27] <NCommander> ogra: I'll take your word for it :-)
[11:27] <ogra> ubiquity doesnt touch gdm
[11:27] <ogra> so
[11:27] <ogra> i'd like us to build two images
[11:27] <NCommander> livecd-rootfs needs to grow a new function mode
[11:27] <ogra> starting out with  minimal one
[11:27] <ogra> +a
[11:28] <NCommander> ogra: minimal? like just a basic command line system?
[11:28] <ogra> which is only a basic debootstrap+oem-config
[11:28] <ogra> right
[11:28] <ogra> we'll need a seed for that
[11:28] <NCommander> ogra: we can't use tasks in PPAs
[11:28] <NCommander> (limitation of Launchpad)
[11:28] <ogra> and the other one should be a stripped down netbook
[11:28] <ogra> thats why i want to use a seed :)
[11:29] <ogra> so we can have a metapackage
[11:29] <NCommander> ogra: right, but we'll have to make sure we keep the metapackages up to date
[11:29] <NCommander> :-)
[11:29] <NCommander> ah good, we're on the same page, we're just cross-typing each other
[11:29] <ogra> they live in the PPA, shouldnt be a prob
[11:29] <NCommander> right, we did this for Moblin
[11:29]  * NCommander shivers
[11:29] <ogra> so what i'd like us to come up with is some idea for the size issue
[11:29] <NCommander> ogra: hrm, we can't put stuff on an ext4 image though
[11:30] <ogra> i dont want to end up with 3G images
[11:30] <NCommander> At least, not if we use antimony
[11:30] <ogra> we can use ext3
[11:30] <NCommander> Slow, but doable
[11:30] <ogra> no pob with that
[11:30] <NCommander> e2tools is VERY slow :-/'
[11:30] <ogra> nope, pretty fast
[11:30] <NCommander> It is? Not the last time I used it
[11:30] <ogra> right, we will use gene2fs
[11:30] <NCommander> OH
[11:30] <NCommander> That works
[11:30] <ogra> indeed
[11:30] <ogra> and doesnt need root
[11:30] <NCommander> Right, so d-cd needs to grow a new ext2/3 backend
[11:31] <ogra> needs to tinker with the journal afterwards though
[11:31] <NCommander> I already have code on a local branch for that
[11:31] <ogra> so it gets converted to ext3
[11:31] <NCommander> ogra: how do we do that though, we can't loopback mount as non-root
[11:31] <ogra> why would you loopback mount anything ?
[11:31] <NCommander> ogra: to twiddle the journal with tune2fs
[11:32] <ogra> no need for that
[11:32] <NCommander> unless you another way to get journals enabled
[11:32] <ogra> tune2fs can work on .img files
[11:32] <ogra> directly
[11:32] <NCommander> didn't know that
[11:32] <NCommander> Nifty
[11:32] <NCommander> ogra: the lack of ext4 is a bit disappointing, but not a show stopper
[11:32] <ogra> ext3 is fine
[11:33] <NCommander> ogra: so the images will have two partitions. vfat /boot, and / ext3, right?
[11:33] <ogra> i was planning to implement the same setup in rootstock to overcome the usage of root
[11:33] <ogra> so i can just copy/paste the PoC from there into antimony
[11:33] <ogra> three
[11:34] <NCommander> ogra: we can expand the partition map on first boot now that I think about it. OEM had to do that on the Dell mini's once
[11:34] <ogra> err
[11:34] <ogra> two
[11:34] <NCommander> We just have to look at how they did it, and then make the ext filesystem grow
[11:34] <ogra> but no vfat /boot
[11:34] <NCommander> ogra: ?
[11:34] <ogra> dpkg doesnt cope with vfat /boot
[11:34] <NCommander> ugh
[11:34] <ogra> we will do something similar to imx51
[11:35] <NCommander> ogra: so flash-kernel voodoo?
[11:35] <NCommander> yeah
[11:35] <NCommander> Ok, so I see how this will come together
[11:35] <ogra> a raw hidden partition that pretends to be a flash
[11:35] <NCommander> d-cd will grow ext2/3 image support, that image is passed into {post-}boot scripts, and then we handle it like we do on imx51 and dove
[11:35] <ogra> flash-kernel will then mount that and cp uImage/uInitrd to it
[11:36] <ogra> that code from oem ... does that automatically grow the partition ?
[11:36] <NCommander> ogra: it had to, but I don't know the full story behind it
[11:37] <NCommander> ogra: but its a solved problem, we just need to figure out how they solved it
[11:37] <ogra> can you try to get your hands on that code and test it ?
[11:37] <NCommander> ogra: let me see if I can figure out who solved it originally, this was almost a year ago
[11:37] <ogra> i'll look into livecd-rootfs and the build scripts
[11:37] <ogra> (or feel free to do the d-cd changes and give them to me)
[11:38] <ogra> so we have something to get started from
[11:38] <NCommander> ogra: I can handle the build scripts/d-cd if you want, I have local infrastructure
[11:38] <ogra> fine then
[11:39] <ogra> i'll put an action point list together and write up an explanation of what we'll do to david
[11:39] <NCommander> ogra: right, so I'll make d-cd grow ext support, you'll make livecd handle making a pre-installed image
[11:40] <NCommander> or do you want me to handle the entirity of the image stack?
[11:40] <ogra> right, and you try to get your hands on the grow partition code
[11:40] <NCommander> (this is work I enjoy doing so I don't mind taking it)
[11:41] <ogra> let me make up the bulletpoint list and we look who does what then (by mail), if you want to start already, start with d-cd
[11:42] <NCommander> ogra: execellent, I'm just fixing up my local build infrastructure here now
[14:55] <aaron_> what 's the dbfifo  use for ?
[14:59] <aaron_> armel-rootfs-201005131535.tgz ?
[14:59] <aaron_> i cannot find the img file
[14:59] <ogra> did you tell rootstock to actually build an img ?
[14:59] <ogra> by default it only builds a tgz
[15:00] <ogra> you need to use --keepimage
[15:00] <aaron_> but how to convert armel-rootfs-201005131535.tgz  to an img file ?
[15:01] <ogra> its described on the RootfsFromScratch wikipage (see channel topic)
[15:16] <aaron_> dd if=/dev/zero of=ubuntu-arm.img bs=1MB count=0 seek=1024
[15:17] <aaron_> what size i should to set ,i don't want to waste the space
[15:35] <hrw-uds> dd if=/dev/zero of=myimage.img bs=1M count=1024
[15:35] <hrw-uds> mkfs.ext3 myimage.img
[15:35] <hrw-uds> mount myimage.img /mnt -o loop
[15:36] <hrw-uds> sudo tar xf tarball.tgz into /mnt
[21:15] <waleed> hello
[21:15] <waleed> am trying to run ubuntu in my iphone
[21:15] <waleed> is there any one tried to do something like that?
[22:05] <tmzt> waleed: rhobuntu
[22:05] <tmzt> what phone?
[22:06] <waleed> Iphone
[22:06] <waleed> iphone 2g
[22:06] <tmzt> with the new android kernel support it should be possible
[22:06] <tmzt> I can try to help you in #htc-linux but I'm not in #iphonelinux or whatever