[00:52] <funkyHat> Any inkscape users able to confirm this bug? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/+bug/580765
[00:59] <funkyHat> h00ky h00k
[04:53] <Sarvatt> if anyone's trying to get nouveau running with the maverick kernel i put the userspace components needed in x-updates until I can get them into the archives
[05:16] <theadmin> Hm. So is it decided now? Will Maverick go with GNOME 3?
[05:17] <Sarvatt> of course it will, just not gnome-shell by default
[05:17] <theadmin> ...o_O
[05:18] <theadmin> But will it be possible to easily swap to it (it's not as of now)?
[05:18] <Sarvatt> yep
[05:19] <theadmin> Right now deletion of gnome-panel kills off the entire GNOME, I can't even log in :D
[05:19] <Sarvatt> it replaces gnome-panel when it starts, no need to delete gnome-panel
[05:20] <theadmin> Sarvatt: Well, I uh... so how apparently will that be done in Lucid?
[05:20] <theadmin> err, Maverick
[05:20] <Sarvatt> if you have gnome-shell installed you just run gnome-shell --replace
[05:20] <theadmin> oh god, just like now. Yeah and then you have to do it on every friggin' start... :/
[05:20] <Sarvatt> i'm sure it'll be an option in appearance preferences or something by release time
[05:20] <theadmin> Ah I see.
[05:22] <Sarvatt> you shouldn't have to do it on every start now, just change a gconf key to use gnome-shell instead of metacity?
[05:22] <theadmin> hm... Oh well, better not to mess it now.
[06:59] <theadmin> Sorry, here just to grab the release schedule link :D
[14:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas folks
[17:03] <theadmin> Say, is there a way to peek into development now? I mean, before any Alpha?
[17:05] <theadmin> Ah well whatever
[20:41] <mrsun_> hmm on a sata system what can be the reason for the whole system grinding to a halt when it reads/writes to the harddrive? :/
[20:41] <mrsun_> everything stops up .. its a freakin quadcore computer :(
[20:43] <SwedeMike> mrsun_: sounds like a driver problem.
[20:44] <mrsun_> had same problems on ALL my computers
[20:44] <mrsun_> as fast as the harddrives starts working the os stops working
[20:44] <mrsun_> hell even sound etc starts to get choppy etc :/
[20:49] <yofel> mrsun_: check with iotop what's accessing the disk?
[20:50] <yofel> under heavy I/O my desktop get's a bit sluggy too though
[20:51] <penguin42> I've seen some setups where that happens as well under some cases
[21:03] <mrsun_> this is a testiment to how much ati drivers in linux sucks
[21:04] <mrsun_> i have vmware and heroes of newerth installed on it, it runs ALOT better then a computer with ati graphics card and fglrx driver to that =)
[21:10] <penguin42> youch
[21:10] <Volkodav> will btrfs introduced to maverick ?
[21:12] <arand> Volkodav: http://www.netsplit.com/2010/05/14/btrfs-by-default-in-maverick/
[21:13] <penguin42> Its pretty new - I wouldn't like to see it as default; it would be nice to have it as an option
[21:13] <Volkodav> option will be nice too - it is really more advanced then what we use today
[21:13] <nigelb> penguin42: its not exaclty sure to be default
[21:14] <arand> Yea, having btrfs as default sounds LSD-trippy to me, but I would guess it might be introduced in the same amnner as ext4 was.
[21:14] <nigelb> It *may* be default, if they can get it, otherwise, optional
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[21:14] <yofel> not again...
[21:14] <nigelb> K-Lined, again
[21:14] <yofel> hm, was ext4 default in jaunty?
[21:15] <arand> 1 in 5 chance according to SJR, I would give it a 1 in 42, rather...
[21:15] <nigelb> yofel: optional
[21:15] <yofel> ok, then btrfs should be optional at best too
[21:15] <nigelb> yofel: well, experimental rather
[21:15] <nigelb> yofel: you listened in to uds?
[21:16] <yofel> nigelb: not to the foundations track, didn't have much time to follow it and concentrated on qa/community/kubuntu
[21:16] <yofel> the projector fans were too loud :/
[21:17] <nigelb> yofel: when keybuk gave closing sum up, he said its not yet decided
[21:17] <yofel> good
[21:17] <nigelb> but they are exploring the option of giving it as default, provided it survives qa and everyone is happy with it
[21:17] <arand> There seems to be no videos up from btrfs discussions, making me a sad bunny =:(
[21:18] <yofel> I wouldn't be against making it default in alphas and demoting it to optional later
[21:18] <nigelb> yofel: exactly
[21:18] <Volkodav> well grub2 has to work it out too
[21:18] <yofel> true
[21:18] <nigelb> if it fails alpha, then good reason to kick it out to optional
[21:19] <penguin42> the conversion process sounds scary :-)
[21:19] <arand> This sounds like it might become an interesting testing cycle...
[21:20] <penguin42> it sounds like the installer would need changing quite a bit to deal with multiple device filesystems?
[21:20] <nigelb> and also we have only 23 weeks this cycle
[21:22] <yofel> well, what consumed a lot of time in the last 2 cycles were grub2, upstart and plymouth, now we have btrfs, what's the difference :D
[21:22] <nigelb> good part is, this cycle is not lts
[21:22] <arand> And Rick was talking about keeping the same steady development but just lowering the amount of bugs... From what I hear, there are people pulling Maverick in all different kinds of directions...
[21:22] <Volkodav> penguin42: true and on top of that may need to detect SSD and offer a btrfs settings for it
[21:22] <yofel> true, but I hope that maverick doesn't end up as 'tech preview' like as karmic...
[21:22] <nigelb> yeah, the net book with unity is just going to be stunning
[21:23] <penguin42> Volkodav: What does it actively do differently for SSD?
[21:23] <nigelb> and windicators and sound menu and all that stuff, it just mindblowing
[21:23] <Volkodav> penguin42: TRIM support etc
[21:23] <penguin42> Volkodav: Oh cool
[21:24] <yofel> yeah, btrfs had the ssd parameter since quite a while, but with .33 having trim support it actually makes sense ^^
[21:24] <SwedeMike> I hope it's not going to be default though, bleeding edge for FSes is seldom a good idea.
[21:24] <arand> Well, at least windics are at a rather separated side of things, with less overlap
[21:24] <penguin42> SwedeMike: Yeh, we're still just getting used to the failure modes of ext4
[21:24] <yofel> SwedeMike: +1, ext4 wasn't really ready until .30
[21:24] <nigelb> arand: whats the different directions you're talking about/
[21:25] <SwedeMike> penguin42: exactly my thinking.
[21:25] <penguin42> can btrfs do snapshotting?
[21:25] <Volkodav> yofel: did you try your ssd on trim yet ?
[21:25] <SwedeMike> yofel: and all the applications weren't really ready either, still don't know if they are (thinking of sync behaviour)
[21:25] <Volkodav> looks like mine works
[21:25] <penguin42> there was someone asking on -server about trying an upgrade from jaunty with rollback, something he's used to being able to do on zfs - and that's a fair wishlist item
[21:26] <yofel> Volkodav: not really, didn't have much time the last few days
[21:26] <arand> nigelb: If you listen to the Plenary of Rick, and the one by Mark, it seems like one imagine Maverick as Lucid+quality, and the other as Lucid+gocrazy!
[21:26] <Volkodav> rollback and snapshots are definitely one of the nicest features it offers
[21:27] <nigelb> arand: well, mark's one is going to be the correct take
[21:28] <SwedeMike> I think lucid had too much stuff already, but it seems to have fixed all my problems that were introduced in 9.10, so I'm happy.
[21:28] <arand> nigelb: Yea, Rick's did kind of sound out of place a bit... I guess "GoCrazy!" it is then..
[21:28] <nigelb> arand: haha.
[21:28]  * yofel got the general feeling that .10 was go crazy and .04 is quality
[21:29] <yofel> but plymouth felt rather crazy too...
[21:29] <nigelb> but i'd rather have te fast boot times
[21:29] <arand> Well they did try it for a while in karmic didn't they?
[21:29] <penguin42> yofel: That coupled with kms has been a mess
[21:30] <SwedeMike> plymouth definitely was cracy, 9.10 and 10.04 was the worst alphas/betas since 8.10, but it seems to have been worked out, at least on the hw I'm running.
[21:30] <yofel> that's exactly what I mean...
[21:30] <penguin42> still, with a fs change it might be ok because people will actually do testing in VMs, where as VMs weren't really helping with all the KMS problems
[21:31] <mrsun_> having like 40 - 60% wa in top when disk io .. that cant be right? :/
[21:31] <penguin42> mrsun_: wa is OK
[21:31] <mrsun_> hell even the text when pasting that was delayed 2 seconds before it was sent from the text frame to the text window :/
[21:31] <yofel> why not? it means the cpu is waiting for data and the HDD isn't fast enough
[21:32] <penguin42> mrsun_: If it's waiting for disk thats perfectly reasonable
[21:32] <arand> Hmm, I don't think mountall/plymouth was particularly fine on release... But then, I'm following a few major bugs (-proposed atm)
[21:32] <Volkodav> HDD is never fast enough lol
[21:32] <penguin42> but it shouldn't be stopping you paste something for 2s
[21:32] <yofel> which is pretty usual
[21:32] <mrsun_> penguin42, no :/
[21:32] <mrsun_> alwast not on a freakin quadcorer
[21:32] <mrsun_> sure on a single core cpu where everything depends on that core
[21:32] <mrsun_> and hell ubuntu is gulphing up ram also :/
[21:32] <yofel> quadcore has nothing to do with HDD I/O speed
[21:32] <penguin42> mrsun_: Even in a single - if it's waiting for the disk it's not helping
[21:33] <mrsun_> 2gb of ram, cante ven open firefox before it starts paging to disk like crazy
[21:33] <jpds> mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
[21:33] <penguin42> it shouldn't be paging heavily at 2gb
[21:34] <mrsun_> hell it worked better before i enabled a page partition
[21:34] <mrsun_> then everything was fast always
[21:34] <mrsun_> now its grinding to a halt as soon as it starts paging
[21:34] <yofel> mrsun_: I have 2gb RAM here, and I can live without swap [open: firefox with 30tabs, thunderbird, quassel, choqok, and the rest of KDE]
[21:34] <SwedeMike> mrsun_: you could try http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000
[21:35] <penguin42> mrsun_: I'd run vmstat 5   and watch the rate of swap in /out  and get the thing quiet and try a hdparm -tT to see read rate
[21:35] <mrsun_> tried setting down swappiness to something low before, worked fine for a while until i was in a cirital moment in a game
[21:35] <mrsun_> then BLAM the disk started swapping and wasnt done until 10 minutes later
[21:35] <mrsun_> i was disconnected from the game and had to wait, couldnt do anything
[21:35] <mrsun_> os just stood still while it was paging
[21:35] <SwedeMike> penguin42: I prefer iostat -x 5 to see drive io
[21:36] <yofel> hm, iostat is nice, didn't know that one yet
[21:42] <mrsun_> turned swap off, in vmstat is the "cache" the "free" ram i have?
[21:43] <yofel> no, cache is cache, just use 'free' to see how much ram you actually have left (the +/- buffers cache numbers)
[21:48] <SwedeMike> mrsun_: did you even read that link you were sent?
[21:49] <mrsun_> SwedeMike, well its alot of text and i wont read the whole damn page, so as far as i can figure its about swapiness?
[21:49] <mrsun_> and if it is it doesnt help me at all with my os grinding to a halt as soon as something touches the disk
[21:49] <SwedeMike> mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ is the one I'm talking about.
[21:49] <mrsun_> ahh there
[22:55] <Martiini> What dimension do we , humans on earth, exist in ??
[22:56] <guntbert> !ot | Martiini
[22:57] <Martiini> what is the current development version of Ubuntu ?
[22:57] <yofel> !topic