| funkyHat | Any inkscape users able to confirm this bug? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/+bug/580765 | 00:52 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 580765 in inkscape "inkscape objects are stuck at 0% opacity when first drawn" [Undecided,New] | 00:52 |
| funkyHat | h00ky h00k | 00:59 |
| Sarvatt | if anyone's trying to get nouveau running with the maverick kernel i put the userspace components needed in x-updates until I can get them into the archives | 04:53 |
| theadmin | Hm. So is it decided now? Will Maverick go with GNOME 3? | 05:16 |
| Sarvatt | of course it will, just not gnome-shell by default | 05:17 |
| theadmin | ...o_O | 05:17 |
| theadmin | But will it be possible to easily swap to it (it's not as of now)? | 05:18 |
| Sarvatt | yep | 05:18 |
| theadmin | Right now deletion of gnome-panel kills off the entire GNOME, I can't even log in :D | 05:19 |
| Sarvatt | it replaces gnome-panel when it starts, no need to delete gnome-panel | 05:19 |
| theadmin | Sarvatt: Well, I uh... so how apparently will that be done in Lucid? | 05:20 |
| theadmin | err, Maverick | 05:20 |
| Sarvatt | if you have gnome-shell installed you just run gnome-shell --replace | 05:20 |
| theadmin | oh god, just like now. Yeah and then you have to do it on every friggin' start... :/ | 05:20 |
| Sarvatt | i'm sure it'll be an option in appearance preferences or something by release time | 05:20 |
| theadmin | Ah I see. | 05:20 |
| Sarvatt | you shouldn't have to do it on every start now, just change a gconf key to use gnome-shell instead of metacity? | 05:22 |
| theadmin | hm... Oh well, better not to mess it now. | 05:22 |
| theadmin | Sorry, here just to grab the release schedule link :D | 06:59 |
| === linux1_ is now known as nixtux | ||
| BluesKaj | Hiyas folks | 14:03 |
| === nigelbabu is now known as nigelb | ||
| === malnilion_ is now known as malnilion | ||
| theadmin | Say, is there a way to peek into development now? I mean, before any Alpha? | 17:03 |
| theadmin | Ah well whatever | 17:05 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| === luis__lopez is now known as luis_lopez | ||
| === brad[werk] is now known as bradbook | ||
| mrsun_ | hmm on a sata system what can be the reason for the whole system grinding to a halt when it reads/writes to the harddrive? :/ | 20:41 |
| mrsun_ | everything stops up .. its a freakin quadcore computer :( | 20:41 |
| SwedeMike | mrsun_: sounds like a driver problem. | 20:43 |
| mrsun_ | had same problems on ALL my computers | 20:44 |
| mrsun_ | as fast as the harddrives starts working the os stops working | 20:44 |
| mrsun_ | hell even sound etc starts to get choppy etc :/ | 20:44 |
| yofel | mrsun_: check with iotop what's accessing the disk? | 20:49 |
| yofel | under heavy I/O my desktop get's a bit sluggy too though | 20:50 |
| penguin42 | I've seen some setups where that happens as well under some cases | 20:51 |
| mrsun_ | this is a testiment to how much ati drivers in linux sucks | 21:03 |
| mrsun_ | i have vmware and heroes of newerth installed on it, it runs ALOT better then a computer with ati graphics card and fglrx driver to that =) | 21:04 |
| penguin42 | youch | 21:10 |
| Volkodav | will btrfs introduced to maverick ? | 21:10 |
| arand | Volkodav: http://www.netsplit.com/2010/05/14/btrfs-by-default-in-maverick/ | 21:12 |
| penguin42 | Its pretty new - I wouldn't like to see it as default; it would be nice to have it as an option | 21:13 |
| Volkodav | option will be nice too - it is really more advanced then what we use today | 21:13 |
| nigelb | penguin42: its not exaclty sure to be default | 21:13 |
| arand | Yea, having btrfs as default sounds LSD-trippy to me, but I would guess it might be introduced in the same amnner as ext4 was. | 21:14 |
| nigelb | It *may* be default, if they can get it, otherwise, optional | 21:14 |
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| yofel | not again... | 21:14 |
| nigelb | K-Lined, again | 21:14 |
| yofel | hm, was ext4 default in jaunty? | 21:14 |
| arand | 1 in 5 chance according to SJR, I would give it a 1 in 42, rather... | 21:15 |
| nigelb | yofel: optional | 21:15 |
| yofel | ok, then btrfs should be optional at best too | 21:15 |
| nigelb | yofel: well, experimental rather | 21:15 |
| nigelb | yofel: you listened in to uds? | 21:15 |
| yofel | nigelb: not to the foundations track, didn't have much time to follow it and concentrated on qa/community/kubuntu | 21:16 |
| yofel | the projector fans were too loud :/ | 21:16 |
| nigelb | yofel: when keybuk gave closing sum up, he said its not yet decided | 21:17 |
| yofel | good | 21:17 |
| nigelb | but they are exploring the option of giving it as default, provided it survives qa and everyone is happy with it | 21:17 |
| arand | There seems to be no videos up from btrfs discussions, making me a sad bunny =:( | 21:17 |
| yofel | I wouldn't be against making it default in alphas and demoting it to optional later | 21:18 |
| nigelb | yofel: exactly | 21:18 |
| Volkodav | well grub2 has to work it out too | 21:18 |
| yofel | true | 21:18 |
| nigelb | if it fails alpha, then good reason to kick it out to optional | 21:18 |
| penguin42 | the conversion process sounds scary :-) | 21:19 |
| arand | This sounds like it might become an interesting testing cycle... | 21:19 |
| penguin42 | it sounds like the installer would need changing quite a bit to deal with multiple device filesystems? | 21:20 |
| nigelb | and also we have only 23 weeks this cycle | 21:20 |
| yofel | well, what consumed a lot of time in the last 2 cycles were grub2, upstart and plymouth, now we have btrfs, what's the difference :D | 21:22 |
| nigelb | good part is, this cycle is not lts | 21:22 |
| arand | And Rick was talking about keeping the same steady development but just lowering the amount of bugs... From what I hear, there are people pulling Maverick in all different kinds of directions... | 21:22 |
| Volkodav | penguin42: true and on top of that may need to detect SSD and offer a btrfs settings for it | 21:22 |
| yofel | true, but I hope that maverick doesn't end up as 'tech preview' like as karmic... | 21:22 |
| nigelb | yeah, the net book with unity is just going to be stunning | 21:22 |
| penguin42 | Volkodav: What does it actively do differently for SSD? | 21:23 |
| nigelb | and windicators and sound menu and all that stuff, it just mindblowing | 21:23 |
| Volkodav | penguin42: TRIM support etc | 21:23 |
| penguin42 | Volkodav: Oh cool | 21:23 |
| yofel | yeah, btrfs had the ssd parameter since quite a while, but with .33 having trim support it actually makes sense ^^ | 21:24 |
| SwedeMike | I hope it's not going to be default though, bleeding edge for FSes is seldom a good idea. | 21:24 |
| arand | Well, at least windics are at a rather separated side of things, with less overlap | 21:24 |
| penguin42 | SwedeMike: Yeh, we're still just getting used to the failure modes of ext4 | 21:24 |
| yofel | SwedeMike: +1, ext4 wasn't really ready until .30 | 21:24 |
| nigelb | arand: whats the different directions you're talking about/ | 21:24 |
| SwedeMike | penguin42: exactly my thinking. | 21:25 |
| penguin42 | can btrfs do snapshotting? | 21:25 |
| Volkodav | yofel: did you try your ssd on trim yet ? | 21:25 |
| SwedeMike | yofel: and all the applications weren't really ready either, still don't know if they are (thinking of sync behaviour) | 21:25 |
| Volkodav | looks like mine works | 21:25 |
| penguin42 | there was someone asking on -server about trying an upgrade from jaunty with rollback, something he's used to being able to do on zfs - and that's a fair wishlist item | 21:25 |
| yofel | Volkodav: not really, didn't have much time the last few days | 21:26 |
| arand | nigelb: If you listen to the Plenary of Rick, and the one by Mark, it seems like one imagine Maverick as Lucid+quality, and the other as Lucid+gocrazy! | 21:26 |
| Volkodav | rollback and snapshots are definitely one of the nicest features it offers | 21:26 |
| nigelb | arand: well, mark's one is going to be the correct take | 21:27 |
| SwedeMike | I think lucid had too much stuff already, but it seems to have fixed all my problems that were introduced in 9.10, so I'm happy. | 21:28 |
| arand | nigelb: Yea, Rick's did kind of sound out of place a bit... I guess "GoCrazy!" it is then.. | 21:28 |
| nigelb | arand: haha. | 21:28 |
| * yofel got the general feeling that .10 was go crazy and .04 is quality | 21:28 | |
| yofel | but plymouth felt rather crazy too... | 21:29 |
| nigelb | but i'd rather have te fast boot times | 21:29 |
| arand | Well they did try it for a while in karmic didn't they? | 21:29 |
| penguin42 | yofel: That coupled with kms has been a mess | 21:29 |
| SwedeMike | plymouth definitely was cracy, 9.10 and 10.04 was the worst alphas/betas since 8.10, but it seems to have been worked out, at least on the hw I'm running. | 21:30 |
| yofel | that's exactly what I mean... | 21:30 |
| penguin42 | still, with a fs change it might be ok because people will actually do testing in VMs, where as VMs weren't really helping with all the KMS problems | 21:30 |
| mrsun_ | having like 40 - 60% wa in top when disk io .. that cant be right? :/ | 21:31 |
| penguin42 | mrsun_: wa is OK | 21:31 |
| mrsun_ | hell even the text when pasting that was delayed 2 seconds before it was sent from the text frame to the text window :/ | 21:31 |
| yofel | why not? it means the cpu is waiting for data and the HDD isn't fast enough | 21:31 |
| penguin42 | mrsun_: If it's waiting for disk thats perfectly reasonable | 21:32 |
| arand | Hmm, I don't think mountall/plymouth was particularly fine on release... But then, I'm following a few major bugs (-proposed atm) | 21:32 |
| Volkodav | HDD is never fast enough lol | 21:32 |
| penguin42 | but it shouldn't be stopping you paste something for 2s | 21:32 |
| yofel | which is pretty usual | 21:32 |
| mrsun_ | penguin42, no :/ | 21:32 |
| mrsun_ | alwast not on a freakin quadcorer | 21:32 |
| mrsun_ | sure on a single core cpu where everything depends on that core | 21:32 |
| mrsun_ | and hell ubuntu is gulphing up ram also :/ | 21:32 |
| yofel | quadcore has nothing to do with HDD I/O speed | 21:32 |
| penguin42 | mrsun_: Even in a single - if it's waiting for the disk it's not helping | 21:32 |
| mrsun_ | 2gb of ram, cante ven open firefox before it starts paging to disk like crazy | 21:33 |
| jpds | mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ | 21:33 |
| penguin42 | it shouldn't be paging heavily at 2gb | 21:33 |
| mrsun_ | hell it worked better before i enabled a page partition | 21:34 |
| mrsun_ | then everything was fast always | 21:34 |
| mrsun_ | now its grinding to a halt as soon as it starts paging | 21:34 |
| yofel | mrsun_: I have 2gb RAM here, and I can live without swap [open: firefox with 30tabs, thunderbird, quassel, choqok, and the rest of KDE] | 21:34 |
| SwedeMike | mrsun_: you could try http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000 | 21:34 |
| penguin42 | mrsun_: I'd run vmstat 5 and watch the rate of swap in /out and get the thing quiet and try a hdparm -tT to see read rate | 21:35 |
| mrsun_ | tried setting down swappiness to something low before, worked fine for a while until i was in a cirital moment in a game | 21:35 |
| mrsun_ | then BLAM the disk started swapping and wasnt done until 10 minutes later | 21:35 |
| mrsun_ | i was disconnected from the game and had to wait, couldnt do anything | 21:35 |
| mrsun_ | os just stood still while it was paging | 21:35 |
| SwedeMike | penguin42: I prefer iostat -x 5 to see drive io | 21:35 |
| yofel | hm, iostat is nice, didn't know that one yet | 21:36 |
| mrsun_ | turned swap off, in vmstat is the "cache" the "free" ram i have? | 21:42 |
| yofel | no, cache is cache, just use 'free' to see how much ram you actually have left (the +/- buffers cache numbers) | 21:43 |
| SwedeMike | mrsun_: did you even read that link you were sent? | 21:48 |
| mrsun_ | SwedeMike, well its alot of text and i wont read the whole damn page, so as far as i can figure its about swapiness? | 21:49 |
| mrsun_ | and if it is it doesnt help me at all with my os grinding to a halt as soon as something touches the disk | 21:49 |
| SwedeMike | mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ is the one I'm talking about. | 21:49 |
| mrsun_ | ahh there | 21:49 |
| Martiini | What dimension do we , humans on earth, exist in ?? | 22:55 |
| guntbert | !ot | Martiini | 22:56 |
| ubottu | Martiini: #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu. Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support. Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic. | 22:56 |
| Martiini | what is the current development version of Ubuntu ? | 22:57 |
| yofel | !topic | 22:57 |
| ubottu | Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic | 22:57 |
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