[00:52] Any inkscape users able to confirm this bug? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/+bug/580765 [00:52] Launchpad bug 580765 in inkscape "inkscape objects are stuck at 0% opacity when first drawn" [Undecided,New] [00:59] h00ky h00k [04:53] if anyone's trying to get nouveau running with the maverick kernel i put the userspace components needed in x-updates until I can get them into the archives [05:16] Hm. So is it decided now? Will Maverick go with GNOME 3? [05:17] of course it will, just not gnome-shell by default [05:17] ...o_O [05:18] But will it be possible to easily swap to it (it's not as of now)? [05:18] yep [05:19] Right now deletion of gnome-panel kills off the entire GNOME, I can't even log in :D [05:19] it replaces gnome-panel when it starts, no need to delete gnome-panel [05:20] Sarvatt: Well, I uh... so how apparently will that be done in Lucid? [05:20] err, Maverick [05:20] if you have gnome-shell installed you just run gnome-shell --replace [05:20] oh god, just like now. Yeah and then you have to do it on every friggin' start... :/ [05:20] i'm sure it'll be an option in appearance preferences or something by release time [05:20] Ah I see. [05:22] you shouldn't have to do it on every start now, just change a gconf key to use gnome-shell instead of metacity? [05:22] hm... Oh well, better not to mess it now. [06:59] Sorry, here just to grab the release schedule link :D === linux1_ is now known as nixtux [14:03] Hiyas folks === nigelbabu is now known as nigelb === malnilion_ is now known as malnilion [17:03] Say, is there a way to peek into development now? I mean, before any Alpha? [17:05] Ah well whatever === yofel_ is now known as yofel === luis__lopez is now known as luis_lopez === brad[werk] is now known as bradbook [20:41] hmm on a sata system what can be the reason for the whole system grinding to a halt when it reads/writes to the harddrive? :/ [20:41] everything stops up .. its a freakin quadcore computer :( [20:43] mrsun_: sounds like a driver problem. [20:44] had same problems on ALL my computers [20:44] as fast as the harddrives starts working the os stops working [20:44] hell even sound etc starts to get choppy etc :/ [20:49] mrsun_: check with iotop what's accessing the disk? [20:50] under heavy I/O my desktop get's a bit sluggy too though [20:51] I've seen some setups where that happens as well under some cases [21:03] this is a testiment to how much ati drivers in linux sucks [21:04] i have vmware and heroes of newerth installed on it, it runs ALOT better then a computer with ati graphics card and fglrx driver to that =) [21:10] youch [21:10] will btrfs introduced to maverick ? [21:12] Volkodav: http://www.netsplit.com/2010/05/14/btrfs-by-default-in-maverick/ [21:13] Its pretty new - I wouldn't like to see it as default; it would be nice to have it as an option [21:13] option will be nice too - it is really more advanced then what we use today [21:13] penguin42: its not exaclty sure to be default [21:14] Yea, having btrfs as default sounds LSD-trippy to me, but I would guess it might be introduced in the same amnner as ext4 was. [21:14] It *may* be default, if they can get it, otherwise, optional [21:14] Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIO® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBook® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/ [21:14] not again... [21:14] K-Lined, again [21:14] hm, was ext4 default in jaunty? [21:15] 1 in 5 chance according to SJR, I would give it a 1 in 42, rather... [21:15] yofel: optional [21:15] ok, then btrfs should be optional at best too [21:15] yofel: well, experimental rather [21:15] yofel: you listened in to uds? [21:16] nigelb: not to the foundations track, didn't have much time to follow it and concentrated on qa/community/kubuntu [21:16] the projector fans were too loud :/ [21:17] yofel: when keybuk gave closing sum up, he said its not yet decided [21:17] good [21:17] but they are exploring the option of giving it as default, provided it survives qa and everyone is happy with it [21:17] There seems to be no videos up from btrfs discussions, making me a sad bunny =:( [21:18] I wouldn't be against making it default in alphas and demoting it to optional later [21:18] yofel: exactly [21:18] well grub2 has to work it out too [21:18] true [21:18] if it fails alpha, then good reason to kick it out to optional [21:19] the conversion process sounds scary :-) [21:19] This sounds like it might become an interesting testing cycle... [21:20] it sounds like the installer would need changing quite a bit to deal with multiple device filesystems? [21:20] and also we have only 23 weeks this cycle [21:22] well, what consumed a lot of time in the last 2 cycles were grub2, upstart and plymouth, now we have btrfs, what's the difference :D [21:22] good part is, this cycle is not lts [21:22] And Rick was talking about keeping the same steady development but just lowering the amount of bugs... From what I hear, there are people pulling Maverick in all different kinds of directions... [21:22] penguin42: true and on top of that may need to detect SSD and offer a btrfs settings for it [21:22] true, but I hope that maverick doesn't end up as 'tech preview' like as karmic... [21:22] yeah, the net book with unity is just going to be stunning [21:23] Volkodav: What does it actively do differently for SSD? [21:23] and windicators and sound menu and all that stuff, it just mindblowing [21:23] penguin42: TRIM support etc [21:23] Volkodav: Oh cool [21:24] yeah, btrfs had the ssd parameter since quite a while, but with .33 having trim support it actually makes sense ^^ [21:24] I hope it's not going to be default though, bleeding edge for FSes is seldom a good idea. [21:24] Well, at least windics are at a rather separated side of things, with less overlap [21:24] SwedeMike: Yeh, we're still just getting used to the failure modes of ext4 [21:24] SwedeMike: +1, ext4 wasn't really ready until .30 [21:24] arand: whats the different directions you're talking about/ [21:25] penguin42: exactly my thinking. [21:25] can btrfs do snapshotting? [21:25] yofel: did you try your ssd on trim yet ? [21:25] yofel: and all the applications weren't really ready either, still don't know if they are (thinking of sync behaviour) [21:25] looks like mine works [21:25] there was someone asking on -server about trying an upgrade from jaunty with rollback, something he's used to being able to do on zfs - and that's a fair wishlist item [21:26] Volkodav: not really, didn't have much time the last few days [21:26] nigelb: If you listen to the Plenary of Rick, and the one by Mark, it seems like one imagine Maverick as Lucid+quality, and the other as Lucid+gocrazy! [21:26] rollback and snapshots are definitely one of the nicest features it offers [21:27] arand: well, mark's one is going to be the correct take [21:28] I think lucid had too much stuff already, but it seems to have fixed all my problems that were introduced in 9.10, so I'm happy. [21:28] nigelb: Yea, Rick's did kind of sound out of place a bit... I guess "GoCrazy!" it is then.. [21:28] arand: haha. [21:28] * yofel got the general feeling that .10 was go crazy and .04 is quality [21:29] but plymouth felt rather crazy too... [21:29] but i'd rather have te fast boot times [21:29] Well they did try it for a while in karmic didn't they? [21:29] yofel: That coupled with kms has been a mess [21:30] plymouth definitely was cracy, 9.10 and 10.04 was the worst alphas/betas since 8.10, but it seems to have been worked out, at least on the hw I'm running. [21:30] that's exactly what I mean... [21:30] still, with a fs change it might be ok because people will actually do testing in VMs, where as VMs weren't really helping with all the KMS problems [21:31] having like 40 - 60% wa in top when disk io .. that cant be right? :/ [21:31] mrsun_: wa is OK [21:31] hell even the text when pasting that was delayed 2 seconds before it was sent from the text frame to the text window :/ [21:31] why not? it means the cpu is waiting for data and the HDD isn't fast enough [21:32] mrsun_: If it's waiting for disk thats perfectly reasonable [21:32] Hmm, I don't think mountall/plymouth was particularly fine on release... But then, I'm following a few major bugs (-proposed atm) [21:32] HDD is never fast enough lol [21:32] but it shouldn't be stopping you paste something for 2s [21:32] which is pretty usual [21:32] penguin42, no :/ [21:32] alwast not on a freakin quadcorer [21:32] sure on a single core cpu where everything depends on that core [21:32] and hell ubuntu is gulphing up ram also :/ [21:32] quadcore has nothing to do with HDD I/O speed [21:32] mrsun_: Even in a single - if it's waiting for the disk it's not helping [21:33] 2gb of ram, cante ven open firefox before it starts paging to disk like crazy [21:33] mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ [21:33] it shouldn't be paging heavily at 2gb [21:34] hell it worked better before i enabled a page partition [21:34] then everything was fast always [21:34] now its grinding to a halt as soon as it starts paging [21:34] mrsun_: I have 2gb RAM here, and I can live without swap [open: firefox with 30tabs, thunderbird, quassel, choqok, and the rest of KDE] [21:34] mrsun_: you could try http://kerneltrap.org/node/3000 [21:35] mrsun_: I'd run vmstat 5 and watch the rate of swap in /out and get the thing quiet and try a hdparm -tT to see read rate [21:35] tried setting down swappiness to something low before, worked fine for a while until i was in a cirital moment in a game [21:35] then BLAM the disk started swapping and wasnt done until 10 minutes later [21:35] i was disconnected from the game and had to wait, couldnt do anything [21:35] os just stood still while it was paging [21:35] penguin42: I prefer iostat -x 5 to see drive io [21:36] hm, iostat is nice, didn't know that one yet [21:42] turned swap off, in vmstat is the "cache" the "free" ram i have? [21:43] no, cache is cache, just use 'free' to see how much ram you actually have left (the +/- buffers cache numbers) [21:48] mrsun_: did you even read that link you were sent? [21:49] SwedeMike, well its alot of text and i wont read the whole damn page, so as far as i can figure its about swapiness? [21:49] and if it is it doesnt help me at all with my os grinding to a halt as soon as something touches the disk [21:49] mrsun_: http://www.linuxatemyram.com/ is the one I'm talking about. [21:49] ahh there [22:55] What dimension do we , humans on earth, exist in ?? [22:56] !ot | Martiini [22:56] Martiini: #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu. Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support. Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic. [22:57] what is the current development version of Ubuntu ? [22:57] !topic [22:57] Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic