/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/16/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

ScottLhi troy_s 02:34
troy_sGreets ScottL02:34
ScottLsomeone posted a good, simple way to install network manager from an Ubuntu Studio disc   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=147978803:17
jussiastraljava: we had Dan, Luke and myself06:18
ckontrosBecause of that damn Intel bug, I gotta run Debian-testing on the lappy. :(13:37
astraljavaNot too bad a choice, IMHO. :)13:38
ckontrosYeah. Still a pain. I do like the ubuntu polish. ;)13:38
ckontrosjussi: Around?13:38
ckontrosjussi: Hit me up in PM when you can.13:41
TheMusoScottL: Basically we hope to have pulseaudio step asside for jack2 when jack2 wants to use a sound card, hopefully for Maverick. I don't know what else there is to say really. :)14:53
TheMusoOh yeah, I am awake as I am not really tired from my flight, as I slept on the last leg when I probably shoudln't have.14:54
astraljavaTheMuso: Does that mean you'll be able to attend to the meeting?14:56
TheMusoastraljava: no14:57
TheMusoI hope I can lie down and go to sleep in a little while.14:57
astraljavaTheMuso: Gotcha.14:57
TheMusoastraljava: And if you didn't know, I have resigned from the project.14:57
TheMusoSo even if I was around, I wouldn't be attending the meeting.14:57
astraljavaTheMuso: Yeah, now I recall.14:57
ScottLTheMuso, thanks!14:59
TheMusoScottL: np14:59
ScottLTheMuso, astraljava mentioned several ubuntu studio members going to a UDS, has that happened in the past?15:00
TheMusoScottL: Yes it has.15:02
ScottLTheMuso, was it quite beneficial?15:02
TheMusoScottL: To an extent.15:11
irv_what time is the meeting17:03
ScottLirv_, in about two hours17:52
ScottLhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May1617:52
rlameiroScottL: 2 hours from now?17:56
ScottLrlameiro, i believe so17:58
rlameirook, because i am always confused with the daytime savings in here17:58
ScottLi believe it is 17:00 UTC right now (approximately)17:58
rlameiroin theory i am on UTC, but now we are at summer time17:59
rlameiroyea, i think so17:59
rlameiroScottL: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/58074418:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 580744 in ubuntustudio "Broadcom BCM57780 Enet broken in Lucid Studio (dup-of: 570828)" [Undecided,New]18:00
rlameiroand they start to appear18:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged]18:00
rlameiroi marked it as a duplicate18:00
ScottLyeah, i saw that, good job18:01
ScottLi was going to link this rudimentary howto to the bug later   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=147978818:02
rlameirowell, rudimentary it is :D18:03
rlameirothe only problem is that i am swamped until, at least, 16 June18:04
ScottLwell, i remember that some people have had trouble accessing the ISO as a repo and thought this should work for everyone :)18:04
rlameiroIf i had time i would do a proper how to, or even make a script that people could copy to a text file and run it and it would do that for them...18:04
rlameiroScottL: yeah, that is one of the problems...18:05
rlameiroto do that i would need to install a new ubuntu from scratch and documment the process18:05
rlameirowell, going out and do some stuff out the house, i will be here on time :D18:12
rlameirolooking forward for the meeting18:12
andyzwebmeeting here in a half an hour?19:34
astraljavaandyzweb: yep19:35
rlameirowell, 10 minutes to go :D19:51
scott-upstairshello all, are we ready for the meeting? :)20:00
scott-upstairsthe agenda is here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May1620:00
scott-upstairsi'll give a minute or two to make sure people are here20:01
rlameiroquadrispro left ... :(20:01
astraljavao/20:02
crimsun(present)20:02
rlameiropresent20:02
scott-upstairswho else is here for the meeting?20:02
rlameirostochastic: ping20:03
rlameirocrimsun: congrats for the interview :D20:03
scott-upstairslooks like rlameiro , astraljava and crimsun      fewer than I had hoped but more than it could have been :)20:04
scott-upstairshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16   is the agenda20:04
scott-upstairsanyone have anything to amend to it?20:04
rlameiroi dont have20:05
astraljavaNothing from me.20:05
scott-upstairsokay, first thing is LV2:  quadripro told me two days ago that they are making good progress, lv2rack and zynjacu are already in debian new20:05
scott-upstairshe also mentioned that he has another person who is quite gifted with packaging that is assisting him20:06
rlameirothas great20:06
rlameiroif it is on debian is only a matter of syncing it isnt it?20:06
scott-upstairsif the package is in debian and not in ubuntu we will autosync it at the beginning of every release cycle20:07
astraljavarlameiro: Yes, until Debian import freeze.20:07
scott-upstairsokay, moving on then20:07
scott-upstairsJACK2 and Pulse Audio:20:07
scott-upstairsearly The.Muso said that they are hopeful that this will be completed by the end of Maverick20:08
scott-upstairsgranted he didn't go into too many specifics, just that they were working on it20:08
scott-upstairscrimsun, do you have anything you would like to add?20:08
scott-upstairsif we can get this complete it would alleviate one of our users biggest complaints :)20:09
crimsunLuke and I spoke briefly at UDS-M about it; in Debian multimedia it currently takes over the existing JACK (v1) packaging, but that isn't a big deal infrastructure-wise.20:09
crimsunMore interesting are a couple points, the first of which is probably more important:20:10
crimsun1) With the introduction in Lucid of Pulse's reliance on udev (well, ConsoleKit and udev acl) for @audio permissions, it is vital that users are *not* added to @audio if PulseAudio is used.20:11
crimsun2) Connor Curran may have resources this cycle to investigate one-click enablement of JACK from indicator-sound.20:12
scott-upstairswow, #2 is sounds incredible!20:13
scott-upstairsbut on #1, how will -rt work if the user is not part of the audio group, crimsun?20:13
crimsunscott-upstairs: the active seat, in ConsoleKit terms, already is granted access to /dev/snd/*20:14
crimsunexample:20:14
crimsungetfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names20:14
crimsun# file: dev/snd/controlC020:14
crimsun# owner: root20:14
crimsun# group: audio20:14
crimsunuser::rw-20:14
crimsunuser:crimsun:rw-20:14
crimsungroup::rw-20:14
crimsunmask::rw-20:14
crimsunother::---20:15
crimsungetent group audio                                            20:15
crimsunaudio:x:29:pulse20:15
crimsuni.e., if you're at the keyboard, you'e the active seat, so you have access to @audio20:15
crimsun(note how my user is not in the audio group)20:16
scott-upstairsoh, so it's by association   (associative property x=y and y=z therefore x=z, sort of)   clever, clever20:16
rlameirocrimsun:how will it work  with plug in devices, like firewire and usb?20:17
scott-upstairsbut i noticed when checking users on my lucid install that i am in the audio group20:17
crimsunscott-upstairs: yeah, you want to remove those users from @audio if you plan to have on-the-fly user-switching in GNOME20:18
crimsunnotably:20:19
crimsungnome-system-tools (2.29.91-0ubuntu2) lucid; urgency=low20:19
crimsun  * debian/patches/26_user_profiles_conf.patch:20:19
crimsun    - Don't add users to the audio group. This is consistent with20:19
crimsun      user-setup and fixes an issue with sound device permissions when20:19
crimsun      switching between users. Thanks to Igor Wojnicki for spotting20:19
crimsun      this (LP: #433654)20:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 433654 in gnome-system-tools "[Karmic]&[Lucid] Only one user has sound; no hw shows in Sound Preferences" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43365420:19
crimsun(sorry for spamming :-) )20:19
scott-upstairslol20:19
crimsunrlameiro: it's transparent, presuming the correct permissions are assigned in the udev rule20:20
crimsunrlameiro: i.e., they should contain to have the devices readable & writeable to @audio20:20
crimsunarg, s/contain/continue/20:20
crimsunrlameiro: i.e., no impact20:20
scott-upstairsanything else anyone wants to add?20:21
andyzwebin general or on that topic?20:21
scott-upstairsokay, moving on to the network manager bug   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/57082820:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged]20:21
scott-upstairsandyzweb, whichever, go ahead20:22
andyzwebnvm, continue20:22
scott-upstairsokay, but please mention though20:23
scott-upstairss/mention/mention it20:23
scott-upstairsthe network bug is the other big complaint from users20:23
scott-upstairsthanks to rlameiro for filing the bug20:23
rlameironp20:23
scott-upstairsit has been assigned to lucid-update, does anyone know how soon we might see some progress on this?20:24
rlameirowe need someone to know if a iso respinn can be done for this, since this is a LTS version and a lot of people rely on LTS20:24
astraljavaWon't the discs be respun for 10.04.01?20:25
rlameiroscott-upstairs: its not assigned to anyone, the milestone is lucid updates20:25
crimsunis Ubuntu Studio 10.04 actually LTS?20:25
rlameirowell, i dont know, maybe we dont have lts...20:25
astraljavaWhat do the release notes say?20:25
scott-upstairsastraljava, i would assume the ISO would be respun for 10.04.0120:25
crimsunI think at this point it may be a lost cause; we definitely want it to get into lucid-proposed, however20:26
scott-upstairscrimsun, persia was pointing out that we don't *have* to support an LTS version20:26
crimsunright, since US is a community project, but that in effect means we have to :-)20:26
astraljavaWell there's no mention in the release notes, so I suppose it is not an LTS. :)20:27
rlameirowell, there is something that was bothering me about this20:27
scott-upstairsrlameiro, which part bothers you?20:27
rlameirodid someone got notified on that change on the package? is there some system that warn flavours on changes made on the vanilla version?20:28
rlameirosince we depend on that package and ubuntu deprecated it in favour of nm-applet...20:28
scott-upstairsthat's were having core developers on the studio team really helps :/20:29
rlameirowell, how i see it, to correct it, we will force all the other versions onto a regression20:30
rlameiroso, we have 2 options, either test and try network manager20:31
scott-upstairswell, whether we consider lucid an LTS i imagine the discs will be respun for 10.04.01 and therefore we need to get it into lucid-proposed as crimsun mentioned20:31
rlameiroor make a regression20:31
scott-upstairswell, perhaps we should defer this until persia can offer some insights as well and perhaps some other disucssions with luke as well20:33
rlameirok then20:33
scott-upstairsbut testing network manager would also be a good thing to accomplish, we just need people20:34
scott-upstairsrlameiro, would you be able to do it?20:34
rlameiroi use network manager20:34
rlameiroi just dont know how to test it20:34
scott-upstairsokay, we can work on that part later :)   we just need to get more people to help us test then20:34
astraljavaMake it public on ubuntu-studio-users@?20:35
scott-upstairscertainly, and post in ubuntu forums / ubuntu studio20:35
scott-upstairsit was suggested to work with upstream as well if we test and find it lacking20:35
scott-upstairsmoving on, ubuntustudio-controls update and redesign20:36
scott-upstairssince jack is now handling rtpri and memlock in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf  we need to update -controls to stop putting it into /etc/security/limits.conf20:36
scott-upstairsand rlameiro has some suggestion as far as a redesign as well20:37
rlameiroyeah, but with the new things comming, maybe it needs another rethink20:37
scott-upstairswe need to at least update it to stop adding "@audio rtprio xx" and "@audio memelock xx" though20:38
scott-upstairsdoes anyone have any other thoughts, suggestions, complaints about it?20:39
rlameirowell, that seems fairly easy to do, just removing the code from it20:39
scott-upstairswhat about removing the "nice" setting?  it has been argued that this doesn't help with -rt audio anyway20:40
rlameirothe nice thing... i really dont know about that, maybe crimsun can help on this20:40
crimsunright, I don't think renicing gains us anything20:40
rlameiroso take it away is the way to go20:40
rlameiroso sttudio controls will be only to enable raw139420:41
scott-upstairsare there anything else that users routinely do after installation that we might add here also?20:41
scott-upstairslike installing 'ubuntu-restricted-extras"20:42
scott-upstairsor enabling the ubuntu studio ppa for other available kernels?20:42
rlameirowell adding the ppa is a good idea20:42
astraljavaI think it would only be stuff that doesn't have relatively easy GUI at the moment.20:43
crimsunI think it'd be a very good idea to partition the ppa, namely, we should make a habit of documenting a stable ppa vice a development ppa.20:43
astraljavaSo -1 for installing ubuntu-restricted-extras.20:43
rlameirocrimsun: +1 to the 2 different ppas20:44
crimsunin fact, anything that belongs in the stable ppa we should probably get into Debian and Ubuntu first as much as possible20:44
rlameiroso the US controls only goes for the stable things20:44
rlameirowell, kernel is not easy to push AFAIK20:44
scott-upstairsastraljava, re: easy GUI, my thought would be to consider putting anything that a user routinely does after installation to get his box set up into -controls20:45
crimsunright, but those sorts of things can be expected to sit in a ppa.20:45
scott-upstairsastraljava, but only if it's worth it (not for just one additional installation or setting)20:46
rlameiroWhat do you think about the script that is on the Arch Linux wiki?20:46
rlameiroit search for lots of things20:47
astraljavascott-upstairs: Yeah, but the problem is that you're trying to solve the problem that some other app already solves, and more maturely.20:47
scott-upstairsastraljava, true :)20:47
rlameirohdd setups, hpet clocks20:47
scott-upstairsrlameiro, i don't know much about that rtirq script20:48
rlameiroits not rtirq20:48
scott-upstairslol, that proves how much i know :) 20:48
rlameiroits a perl script that test the configurations of your system, rtirq tries to alocate the irq in a way the rt kernel can use the devices more efficiently20:49
scott-upstairsi'll have to look at that script then, probably tomorrow evening then20:49
rlameirohttp://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio20:49
astraljavaMaybe that should be made into a blueprint or something, at least a wiki item where devs can give test reports and other suggestions on how it should be implemented on US. I doubt that it would be possible to integrate it straight away.20:49
scott-upstairsgreat idea astraljava , can either you or rlameiro make it happen?20:50
astraljavarlameiro: Do you want that one?20:50
rlameirowell, i dont know any perl, just python..20:50
astraljavarlameiro: No need to be able to tweak it, just create the wiki page or something?20:51
rlameirook20:51
rlameirohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign20:51
scott-upstairsgood, you work fast rlameiro ;)20:51
rlameiro:D20:52
scott-upstairsthe ppa question of -controls actually ties into the next topic which is possibily maintaining our own backports ppa20:52
rlameiroi will make a chapter for a system tester script then20:52
scott-upstairsthanks20:52
scott-upstairsjohn dong basically said that the backports team is stretched pretty thin usually and suggested we maintain our own backports ppa20:53
scott-upstairsespecially for a LTS version (if we have one)20:53
rlameiroi can test backports20:53
rlameiroi will have a VM with a LTS version for that20:53
rlameiroor a partition for kernel and hardcore software testing20:54
astraljavaI'm interested in working with backports, and possibly even integrating into the team in the future. So a big fat +1 for backports PPA. :D20:54
scott-upstairsi like backports as well :)20:55
scott-upstairsi asked jdong about a member from our team being included on their team, he wasn't reticent as much as he demured from the subject at this time20:55
scott-upstairsi think his concern was quality and effectiveness20:56
astraljavaWell yeah, I assume they want to see a proven track record for these things.20:56
scott-upstairshe wants someone who does a quality job and actually *does* the job, not just someone who wants to be on another team20:56
scott-upstairsbut if we maintain the backports ppa this may be a vector into it20:56
astraljavaAbsolutely understood.20:57
rlameiroonly one thing about it20:57
rlameiroWhat is qualified for backport?20:57
rlameiroany app? just on the main repo?20:58
scott-upstairsrlameiro, are you asking about ubuntu's policy or asking if we can slip something else into *our* ppa?20:58
rlameirono, just iff we can backport any software we use on ubuntustudio20:59
rlameirofor instance a new jack20:59
rlameiroor a new ardour20:59
crimsunI'd argue that we consider even further partitioning of the ppa in that case.20:59
scott-upstairswe need to test it first, but i think any software in the archives is acceptable to backport20:59
rlameirook, understood21:00
scott-upstairscrimsun, are you saying that because of libraries?21:00
crimsunscott-upstairs: yeah21:00
scott-upstairsrlameiro, weird things can happen if we start introducing something like JACK2 into lucid via backports21:00
scott-upstairsdetrate, do you have anything to say about the website update?21:01
astraljavaCan a team have several PPAs, or just the one?21:01
rlameiroso we can conclude we need to make various ppa with specific functions and teams21:01
crimsunastraljava: as segmented as desired21:01
astraljavacrimsun: Okay, I need to read about that further. At the moment I have no idea how it works. :)21:02
scott-upstairsmoving on:  we are also updating the website, detrate is helping us21:03
scott-upstairshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp  is the list that i forwarded to detrate (who has someone else helping him)21:03
scott-upstairsplease feel free to amend and update it21:03
scott-upstairsit would appear that the new website will probably be based on word press21:04
astraljavaSurely there's a deadline for the updates? I mean, they must have a feature freeze at some point.21:04
scott-upstairsastraljava, do you mean for the website?21:05
astraljavaNo objections towards wordpress.21:05
astraljavascott-upstairs: Yes.21:05
rlameiroi dont like the facebook think so much, but it could work :D21:05
scott-upstairswell, i don't think the feature freeze will have any impact on updating the website since it isn't actually part of the ubuntu development process21:06
rlameiroalse there is already a !ubuntustudio group on identi.ca, maybe we can send updates to the subscribers of the group21:06
scott-upstairsi was hoping to have detrate here to discuss current status and a generalized time table, but oh well21:07
scott-upstairsdoes anyone have anything else to add about the website update?  anyone want to particpate in it?21:08
scott-upstairsokay, moving on:  the next one is a good one,  reducing the delta between ubuntu packages and debian packages21:09
scott-upstairshttp://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html21:09
scott-upstairsthis provides a list of package that are in both ubuntu studio and debian and it categorizes them21:09
scott-upstairswe should focus on the following:  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html#sameversionbutlocalinB21:10
scott-upstairsand http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ubuntustudio.html#outdatedandlocalinB21:10
scott-upstairsthese are packages with local changes, i.e. ubuntu specific21:11
astraljavascott-upstairs: Sorry, was afk for a while. If not tied to distro release dates, then no feature freeze for the website, you're right. Moving on now. :)21:11
scott-upstairswe should evaluate these packages and see if the ubuntu specific changes are: 1) necessary  and 2) can be pushed back "upstream" to debian to be incorporate into their pacakges21:12
astraljavaI can start tracking this, like already discussed with quadrispro, I'm interested in working together with debian-multimedia, so I'd think this falls under that umbrella.21:13
scott-upstairseliminating ubuntu specific changes allows us to request a sync from debian instead of hand packaging the changes21:13
scott-upstairsfantastic astraljava , i would also like to help with this as well21:13
astraljavaOk.21:14
scott-upstairsgood, moving on:  testing procedures21:14
scott-upstairsstochastic, are you here?21:14
scott-upstairsi was hoping that since eric is the head of the ubuntustudio-testers group in launchpad that he would help with this21:15
scott-upstairsbut my thoughts were that if we *really* want more feedback from users then we need to codify our expectations21:15
astraljavaShows how out I am of this game, I didn't even know about such a team in LP. :)21:15
rlameirowell i can do iso testing21:16
scott-upstairswe should establish the testing that we would like done, we should document it well, and then we should ask for help :)21:16
rlameirobut we do need some procedures21:16
scott-upstairsrlameiro, thank you, but i was hoping a small team could develop those procedures :)21:16
scott-upstairsbasically, we have nothing right now, so something is better than that :)21:17
scott-upstairsanyone want a crack at it? or shall I wait and see about stochastic ?21:17
rlameirowell, there are some studio esting procedures made by ckontros somewhere21:17
scott-upstairsi have all the links i could previously find somewhere convienient if you would like me to forward them to rlameiro 21:18
scott-upstairsit sounds like you may be interested in helping?  :)21:18
astraljavaIs there a wiki page for this?21:19
scott-upstairsastraljava, there are several, but none really finished or completed21:19
rlameirowell i am on the testing team (i joined myself...) so i can try to help on that, but only after finishing my college related things21:20
astraljavaOkay, so we need to unify them together and work on that to create the policy.21:20
scott-upstairscertainly, rlameiro21:20
scott-upstairsmy thought was that a small group should get together and discuss this, agree to which itesm should be tested beyond installation of ISO21:21
scott-upstairsfor example, run jack, record something in ardour21:21
rlameiroyeah21:21
scott-upstairsjust come up with the bullet points of *what* should be tested, the rest is downhill (easy)21:21
rlameiroand try to have a core team that can test diffrent situations21:21
rlameirolike firewire, usb pci cards21:21
rlameirolaptop/desktop21:21
rlameiroetc21:21
rlameiroi will try to ping stochastic on that21:22
scott-upstairsbut once it's documented i think we might see more support from users as well :)   tell them *specifically* what to do to test21:22
rlameiroand maybe holstein 21:22
scott-upstairsi know the opensourcemusicians would love to help :)21:22
scott-upstairsonce it's documented, that is21:23
rlameirook21:23
scott-upstairsrlameiro, so you are going to work with stochastic on this?  astraljava, do you want to help as well?21:23
rlameiroi can get to it with stochastic if he is interested in it21:23
astraljavascott-upstairs: Absolutely.21:23
scott-upstairsrlameiro, if he isn't i will help as well21:23
scott-upstairsthat is fantastic!21:24
scott-upstairsthis ties into the last topic:   where to put documentation?  wiki.ubuntu.com or help.ubuntu.com21:24
scott-upstairshi _guitarman_ 21:24
_guitarman_hi scott-upstairs 21:24
scott-upstairsdoes anyone have particular thoughts about wiki vs. help?21:24
rlameirofinally _guitarman_ 21:24
rlameiro_guitarman_: is a good candidate for a testing team21:25
astraljavaI don't have an informed opinion, sorry.21:25
rlameirohe plays alot in it21:25
rlameirosorry for the regression scott-upstairs 21:25
scott-upstairsright now there seems to be a mish mash between the two21:25
_guitarman_rlameiro: we can talk about that later21:25
rlameiroyeap21:25
scott-upstairsno problem rlameiro :)21:25
scott-upstairsmy thoughts are that we try to use help.ubuntu.com for the user facing documentation, i.e. the howtos, etc21:26
rlameiroabout the next topic i think a good idea to diferentiate wiki from help21:26
scott-upstairsthe wiki.ubuntu.com is what developers and contributors work on to help development21:26
rlameiroand make wiki more dev centric and help more community21:26
scott-upstairsabsolutely :)21:26
astraljavaSounds good to me.21:26
scott-upstairsit wouldn't hurt to deprecate the ubuntustudio page on  wiki.ubuntu.com and put up an index for our stuff then21:27
astraljavaPlease elaborate.21:27
scott-upstairs'tis a nice page, i would move it somewhere and link to it, not delete it :)21:27
scott-upstairsastraljava, right now it has things like team members, how to contact the team, this is not very "development" like21:28
astraljavascott-upstairs: Okay, understood.21:28
scott-upstairsthat information can be moved to the help.ubuntu.com as required21:28
scott-upstairsokay :)21:28
rlameirowell i do have some things to trough in21:28
scott-upstairsyes?21:29
scott-upstairsand i think astraljava had something as well21:29
rlameirowell the main topic is the audience and the meaning of ubuntustudio21:29
rlameirowho? why? where? are very important questions21:30
* scott-upstairs nods his head21:30
_guitarman_you also have ubuntustudio.com21:30
rlameirofor instance why do we need a media distro and for whom21:31
rlameiroand find a "user base" and go for it 21:31
_guitarman_as an end user its always been a bit confusing having so many places to go21:31
_guitarman_not knowing which is the right place etc.21:31
rlameiroi had an idea of what can be done, but people could find this intruding21:31
astraljavarlameiro: Be brave. :)21:32
scott-upstairs_guitarman_, that is a *very* good point, we shall have to address it as well21:32
rlameiromake a feedback software that would fireup on the first install, maybe atacched to a launchpad id (to avoid duplicates)21:32
rlameiroand make a kind of poll21:32
_guitarman_scott-upstairs: its my belief most people are going to be starting on the ubuntustudio.com web site21:33
scott-upstairs_guitarman_, that's good information, thanks!21:33
_guitarman_scott-upstairs: so if you want to funnel them in appropriately, you should have a help tab, and a developer tab21:33
_guitarman_and on that is how you can direct traffic appropriately21:33
scott-upstairsabsolutely :)21:33
rlameiro_guitarman_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp look and see what can be improved21:33
* _guitarman_ isn't sure if he's being a pest or not21:33
scott-upstairs_guitarman_,  you are offering good opinions and advice, not being a pest :)21:34
_guitarman_rlameiro: ah thanks21:34
astraljavaCurrently we have links to both wiki.u.c and help.u.c on the website, but perhaps clarifying what they mean is in order.21:34
scott-upstairswe currently have a user base, but i don't think anyone could accurate define it well21:34
rlameirowell that is the idea of this software21:35
rlameiroyou could do a feedback app that would send usefull info about the usage21:35
rlameirofor instance, it could send the hardwae the people use, what for(audio video or 3d/2d21:35
_guitarman_astraljava: i would venture to say that the user will be confused with a redirect - if there is a way to make it appear that they are still on the ubuntustudio website that would be less confusing even if you are bringing in content from the other sites. if this makes sense21:36
scott-upstairsthat does make sense _guitarman_ 21:36
astraljava_guitarman_: Noted. Don't know how it's possible, but something to think about.21:36
scott-upstairsi'm not sure if it's possible :/  we can ask detrate for his input though21:36
rlameiromaybe using a iframe with the link21:36
scott-upstairsrlameiro, if we did go the 'feedback app' route it would take time to get through REVU though21:38
_guitarman_the user needs a 1 stop shop, ideally it would all be on the ubuntustudio web site...21:38
_guitarman_if your goal is to get less developer types and hacker types, then they don't really care about anything but ubuntustudio.com21:38
_guitarman_what i mean is - if you want to widen the audience, you have to deliver something like a super tasty potato chip... the bag has to look good, and the contents have to be refined and just the right stuff.21:39
_guitarman_anyways - you get the idea i imagine and i'll just listen in for a bit21:39
astraljava_guitarman_: I'm getting the feel that help.u.c would be integrated to us.org, _not_ wiki.u.c/us though. That might make perfect sense, actually.21:40
rlameiro_guitarman_: you are right, i never liked the ubunsutstudio website because of that21:40
astraljavascott-upstairs: I hear ya regarding the feedback app. It takes time to design and spec such an app, and getting it in before feature freeze might prove out to be difficult.21:41
astraljavaPerhaps for Maverick+1?21:41
rlameiroastraljava: maybe there is a way to parse the help.u,com webpage and use it as a "native look" inside ubuntustudio.org21:41
astraljavarlameiro: _guitarman_: Please add this as a feature to the TaskWebRevamp page, so detrate et al. can design it in.21:42
rlameirowell the feedback app has very deep implications, that go into the ubuntu core 21:42
scott-upstairsi had planned on discussing audience in the next meeting so i'm not as prepared as i had hoped21:42
scott-upstairsbut we obviously need to understand more about our audience's wants and needs21:42
rlameiroscott-upstairs: np, but as astraljava mentioned, this stuff takes time21:42
scott-upstairsi had thought that an online survey would help and had started developing questions for it21:42
rlameiroso we need to start ASAP to get it on Maverick+121:42
scott-upstairswe could post the link in the -users mailing list, the forums and the irc channel21:43
rlameiroscott-upstairs: online survey will help for the immediate time21:43
scott-upstairsbut i fear that most users are somewhat apathetic to helping and we may need another vector to gather information21:44
rlameirobut i always tought that it is a missing piece on the ubuntu sphere21:44
astraljavaI'm just thinking about popcon, and its problems in getting users reveal their habits and other "sensitive" information.21:44
rlameiromaybe it is purposed, so i am afraid it will be dismissed very hard21:44
scott-upstairs"popcorn" astraljava ?21:45
astraljavascott-upstairs: No, popcon.ubuntu.com. :)21:45
astraljavaThere's an app that gathers information regarding packages installed etc.21:45
astraljavaBut it has to be turned on, as turning it on by default is considered a privacy violation.21:46
scott-upstairsoh, bloody fantastic!  i didn't know that existed till fifteen seconds ago21:46
rlameirowell, i dont meant to do packages21:46
rlameiroI tought more on a survey like thing21:47
scott-upstairsi was hoping to understand user's workflows as well21:47
astraljavarlameiro: I understand, but it might be perceived as the same thing.21:47
rlameiroastraljava: yeap, i know it is really sensitive stuff21:47
scott-upstairsbut it does become important for us to understand what the users want/need in order to provide it to them21:48
astraljavaBut yeah, as a totally volunteered "if you like, please take part in this survey" kind of app.21:48
rlameiroastraljava: that was the idea21:48
rlameirothe app show on the startup, or maybe after 10 reboots21:48
astraljavascott-upstairs: Forums have polls, don't they?21:48
* rlameiro 10 reboots seems better21:49
scott-upstairsi think ubuntu forums has polls21:49
rlameirowell, maybe we will need a meeting just for this matter :D21:49
astraljavarlameiro: There is the way to make those lightbulbs appear in the panel, that might work as an information pop-up as well.21:49
rlameiroastraljava: great idea21:50
astraljavarlameiro: True, but let's not wait too long for that.21:50
holsteinrlameiro: sorry i missed the meeting :/21:50
holsteini had a session21:50
holsteinand im off to a gig now :)21:50
rlameirohe he21:50
scott-upstairshi holstein , bye holstein !21:50
rlameirolol21:50
holsteinnext time21:50
scott-upstairsastraljava, didn't you have something else you wanted to mention?21:50
astraljavascott-upstairs: Hmm... I don't know, did I? :)21:51
astraljavascott-upstairs: Any idea what it was referring to?21:51
* astraljava had a tough day at the construction... :)21:51
scott-upstairssorry, it was andyzweb 21:51
astraljavaOk.21:51
scott-upstairsandyzweb, do you want to mention now what you started to say earlier?21:52
scott-upstairswhew, it's been a two hour meeting21:53
rlameirowow21:53
rlameiroi need to eat21:53
rlameirolol21:53
astraljavaGoes to show that a meeting was in order. :)21:53
scott-upstairsdoes anyone else have anything to add?21:53
astraljavaNext meeting?21:53
scott-upstairsi'll add audience to the next meeting agenda soon21:53
scott-upstairsastraljava, should be in approximately one month21:54
astraljavascott-upstairs: Okay good.21:54
scott-upstairswe try for second sunday each month21:54
rlameiroscott-upstairs: i think we could schedule more often21:54
rlameiromaybe specific meetings21:54
rlameirolike testing team meeting 21:54
scott-upstairsabsolutely!  that's a good idea21:55
scott-upstairsi'll summarize the meeting during this coming week and see about setting the next meeting up as well and post to the -dev mailing list21:55
rlameirok21:56
astraljavaGreat!21:56
scott-upstairsthank you for participating :)21:56
astraljavaDoes the meeting log get posted?21:56
scott-upstairsyes, this channel is automatically logged21:56
astraljavaOh, right. :)21:56
scott-upstairsi will include links to it on the meeting agenda page along with the summerization21:56
scott-upstairss/summerization/summary21:56
astraljavaCool.21:56
scott-upstairsthat sounded german21:56
astraljavaHeheh... :)21:57
rlameirohe he21:57
astraljavaThank you ScottL for organizing this. :)22:05
astraljavaJust one thing came to mind, too late of course. What about the team positions?22:05
* _guitarman_ plays defense22:06
* _guitarman_ jokes22:06
astraljavaHahah! :)22:06
rlameirolol22:11
rlameiroScottL: is not upstairs now... maybe spending sometime with the family22:11
rlameiroI vote on _guitarman_ to the testing team22:11
rlameirohe uses a lot of audio features everyday, besides beeing a podcaster22:12
astraljavaHopefully he can join the team. Is it an open team? Well I guess I can take a look at it myself. :)22:22
astraljavaAhh... I'm already an indirect member. Guess I should pay more attention to my LP affairs. ;)22:24
_guitarman_rlameiro: i'd love to be helpful, i'm just very concerned about the commitments i already have. :( testing an iso out from time to time and contributing a thought here and there may be my max at this point ... i'm just not sure, i've got the full time job, the podcast, the kids, and a tech contract outside of that22:41
rlameiro_guitarman_: well, you could test things out when isos ae released22:42
rlameiroand maybe only testing one of them22:42
_guitarman_yes, i did one of those this time around22:42
rlameirothat would be very helpfull already22:42
_guitarman_probably my usefulness will extend to communicating what the team has to say - like the interview we did with scott22:43
_guitarman_i'm open to conveying whatever the team wants to send out22:43
rlameiroand as a musician you would go to the straight points, like hardware working, or jack unnig and things like that22:43
_guitarman_we are almost at 1500 downloads / month22:43
_guitarman_hopefully grow more and more22:44
rlameirowell, i think a PR positions isnt a bad idea...22:44
_guitarman_hehe we shall see - i'll sit in on the next few meetings and see if anything comes natural to how i can be of service22:44
rlameiromaybe a shout out to test isos when its needed 22:44
_guitarman_yup or if the team needs help developing an app to do X22:45
_guitarman_or this or that22:45
_guitarman_next time we won't fail so bad on getting the word out sooner22:45
rlameirowell you can help alot just with that22:46
rlameirobut also, you are an "heavy" audio user, so you imput is very important also22:46
rlameirosoftware releases worth to include, or some things that dont work wood22:47
rlameirothat feedback seems important to me22:47
_guitarman_yeah, something that is really useful that kxstudio did is the pulse to jack bridge being on by default22:47
_guitarman_this solved my podcast problem with skype22:47
_guitarman_i setup a mumble server22:47
_guitarman_do the voip on that22:47
rlameiroand after all you are a power user.... slackware pain lover22:47
_guitarman_use pulse to jack audio bridge to route the other voice in ardour22:47
_guitarman_i tested this today, it works22:47
rlameirowell, the problems is that the bridge is not on the ubuntu repos22:48
rlameiroso here you go, you found a thing to implement :D22:48
_guitarman_yes, it must be in falks ppa22:48
_guitarman_as it is, his distro is more suitable with that being implemented for my uses.22:49
_guitarman_i can get ubuntustudio to do the same i imagine if i drop the ppa in22:49
_guitarman_i might do this22:49
_guitarman_on my mininote22:49
_guitarman_the implecation is huge - the lack of dependance on a non free tool22:50
rlameirowell, maybe we need to try to push the package to the ubuntu repos22:50
_guitarman_i will drop slack like a hot rock22:50
rlameirohehe22:50
_guitarman_here what i think kxstudio does right - the latest apps, the pulse to jack sync22:50
_guitarman_in a way, fragmentation is a bit of a problem - blessing and a curse22:51
rlameiro_guitarman_: what is the name of the bridge?22:51
rlameirofrom the binary 22:52
_guitarman_hmmm lemme see if its easy to grep22:52
_guitarman_i actually don't know22:52
_guitarman_i still have that livedvd in the pc22:53
rlameirooh never mind22:53
rlameiroi will find it later22:53
_guitarman_pulseaudio-module-jack22:53
_guitarman_is one22:53
_guitarman_they are on jack2 though as well etc.22:54
_guitarman_its all the experimental stuff22:54
_guitarman_ladi22:54
_guitarman_etc22:54
_guitarman_i dont really know if thats where ubuntustudio wants to go22:54
_guitarman_anyways - that module in particular is of use to podcasters wanting to use pulse voip and record it in ardour22:55
_guitarman_a lot of linux podcasters would find that useful22:55
_guitarman_well, i just installed that on the mininote22:56
_guitarman_which is running lucid22:56
_guitarman_i'll let you know if thats all that was needed22:56
rlameirowell, it is on the repos22:57
rlameirowhere do you strt it?22:57
rlameirofrom the pachooser?22:58
_guitarman_rlameiro: we can probably take this over to #opensourcemusicians so we don't flood the log22:58
rlameiroyeap22:58
rlameiro:D22:58
astraljavaPlease don't, it's useful information for this project as well. :) Nevermind the log.23:02
rlameiroyea23:03

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