[08:01] Good morning [08:02] Guten Morgen pitti [08:02] hey didrocks, had a nice weekend? [08:03] pitti: yeah, really nice with some sun \o/ thanks, and you? [08:04] me too, I finally rode my bicycle again yesterday, and visited my grandparents [08:04] my flat was still in one piece, and I still recognized it after three weeks :-P [08:04] * pitti needs to leave for a bit for a doctor appointment and supermarket; my fridge is absolutely empty [08:05] pitti: same here ;) see you later! [09:01] hello there [09:11] hey seb128! [09:11] hey mvo [09:11] how are you? [09:11] had a good trip back? [09:11] good, easy trip back, also I missed my connection in luxemburg by 1 minute :/ [09:12] but not a big deal, it was just 1h until the next train [09:12] but I discovered that the train station is not very exciting ;) [09:12] hehe, indeed [09:12] and you? all easy? [09:13] hey seb128! [09:14] lut didrocks [09:14] mvo, yes, left at 9:15, was home at 11;25 [09:14] heh :) [09:14] I crossed Lucas at breakfast who came by car [09:15] seb128: and so, you finally drove back and he played on his computer? [09:15] and he's living in Nancy, ie my place was on his road back [09:15] didrocks, I drove but he didn't geek ;-) [09:15] :-) [09:15] haha [09:15] didrocks, bien rentré ? c'était bien ton ubuntu-party-meeting samedi ? [09:16] mvo, he made me drive, wouldn't pick me up if I was not driving [09:16] seb128: oui, dans la même voiture/train que le DPL, on a bien parlé ;) sinon le meeting, bof… rien de préparé et personne de motivé donc j'ai improvisé :/ [09:16] see how the Debian guys are :p [09:16] didrocks, ok [09:17] didrocks, t'étais pas tout seul au moins à ta réunion ? ;-) [09:17] seb128: non, tout de même ^^ mais beaucoup de nouveaux installeurs, donc c'était pour leurs présenter les nouveautés + les best practices [09:17] seb128: did he at least have a nice car? [09:18] (avec un gros troll du /home séparé ou non qui court encore…) [09:18] didrocks, ok [09:18] mvo, no [09:19] seb128: you really should complain to him about his car :-) [09:19] seb128: well, when you arrived, of course ;) [09:19] mvo, a suzuki one I never saw before, it feels quite low quality and it's noisy with slow engine [09:19] I will not complain though I was home for lunch rather than by 17h [09:19] ;-) [09:20] sweet :-) [09:22] I forgot to take some CDs during UDS [09:22] I noticed saturday [09:22] I think I've not seen those around during the week [09:25] pitti: ping [09:26] czajkowski, pong [09:27] DASPRiD: pitti ? [09:27] nah, just a man-in-the-middle attack :) [09:27] czajkowski, you should ask your question [09:27] czajkowski, contextless pings are not that useful [09:28] seb128: well I was told to ask for pitti as it's to do with burndown charts [09:28] seb128: hence the ping for him :) [09:28] czajkowski, you can do useful ping, ie write some pitti: how do I change those in charts? [09:29] seb128: ok [09:29] czajkowski, so he can reply when he's back, you being still around or not [09:29] also other people might be able to reply [09:29] pitti: any change of helping me change the blueprint to Ubuntu and no Ubuntu-community https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-loco-manual-and-guidelinesas selecting Ubuntu isn't helping me change it. then I'll be able to change series goal [09:30] seb128: cheers, won't use ping in here again :) [09:42] czajkowski: hello [09:42] hey seb128, bonjour; had a safe trip home? [09:43] hey pitti! [09:43] pitti, yes, 2 hours by car with lucas [09:43] czajkowski: I don't think you can do that with blueprints; you probably have to set that to "superseded" and open a new one against ubuntu [09:44] pitti: ah ok, just when I select Ubuntu, it's saying too large and to narrow down criteria [09:46] pitti, what about you? did you have a good trip back? [09:46] seb128: yes, it went smoothly; I was with Torsten until Frankfurt, and then the last 4.5 hours to Dresden; we even arrived 10 mins early [09:47] I did some postgresql stuff and watched some movies [09:47] good [09:48] seb128: we had some sun yesterday, so I spent some hours on my bike, as well as doing the laundry etc. [09:48] we had some sun too there [09:48] I went for a walk was good [09:58] morning [10:09] pitti, ping [10:09] hey rodrigo_, how are you? [10:09] pitti, exhausted still :) how about you, got home safely? [10:10] hello everyone [10:11] pitti, tried to talk with you on Thursday about bug #571286, but either I couldn't find you or you were in the middle of busy discussions :) [10:11] pitti, so, do you have a minute to talk about it? [10:17] bug 571286 [10:17] Launchpad bug 571286 in couchdb-glib "Data loss of postal addresses between Evolution and Ubuntu One's Funambol exchange/web UI" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571286 [10:18] hey chrisccoulson [10:18] hey pitti, how are you? [10:18] are you rested from last week now? [10:18] rodrigo_: sure (I'm scanning some stuff for expenses, but I'll answer) [10:18] chrisccoulson: yes, had a quiet train ride and a nice Sunday; how about you? [10:19] pitti - yeah, i flew back on saturday morning and caught up on some sleep :) [10:19] pitti, ok, so, we fixed it in couchdb-glib supporting the old format, and right now, in lucid, users that enter street information on evolution can't see it in the web UI and viceversa [10:20] pitti, so, this is the best way we could find to fix it [10:20] pitti, as for other apps using the format without couchdb-glib, there is the web ui for u1 and macaco-contacts, which use desktopcouch, and both should be changed now to support the new format [10:21] pitti, but in lucid, there's nothing else using it, afaik [10:22] pitti, also, both couchdb-glib and the u1 web ui support the old format, so if any app didn't change, we would still support it [10:23] rodrigo_: hm, is couchdb-glib the only way to access couchdb? you can certainly talk to it in other ways, too? [10:23] rodrigo_: also, if a db entry has the old format, it looked like it would actually rewrite it (thus breaking other apps that rely on the old format)? or does it do on-the-fly conversion and keep the old format on disk? [10:24] pitti, yes, via desktopcouch, but it doesn't include field level detail, it's up to the app to use the correct field names, so we've changed all the apps we control [10:24] pitti, no, it moves the record to the new format on disk [10:24] right, I'm concerned about the ones that we don't control [10:25] pitti, we discussed about keeping the old field, but we don't want to do that, if not we'll end up with lots of fields in the record for every change we do [10:25] pitti, the only one we don't control is macaco contacts, which is not even in lucid [10:25] well, there might be dozens of quickly apps by now which use it, too? [10:26] this is not an Ubuntu distro-only thing, after all [10:26] pitti, desktopcouch yes, but not sure about the contacts database [10:26] pitti, and apps using the contacts db, they should watch the freedesktop page for changes [10:27] teknico, anything to add? [10:27] that'd require all those apps to suddenly be aware of this, though [10:28] rodrigo_: wouldn't it be safer to leave the on-disk format as it is and just convert the format on the fly? [10:28] yes, but the same will happen again when we add social networking accounts to the contact format, which we'll be doing soon [10:28] changing on-disk format is really not something that should be done post release [10:28] pitti, as I said, we discussed that, but we don't want to set a precedent to do that, or we'll end up supporting dozens of fields [10:29] rodrigo_, pitti, the contacts web ui and the funambol interface can be made to work both ways, but it would be messier to have to keep old and new format in sync all the time [10:29] rodrigo_: adding new fields seems fine, though? old apps would just ignore those? [10:29] pitti, no, when saving docs to couchdb, you send the whole doc, so if they ignore those fields, they might remove them [10:30] urgh [10:30] pitti, we need to make sure people are aware of all changes, yes [10:30] or have a schema checker, or something [10:30] couchdb doesn't support a thing like that, such as a "layout version" field which we can bump and apps need to check? [10:31] pitti, yes, we can have a 'record-type-version' field [10:31] I mean it's not already there? [10:31] no [10:31] because we haven't really came up with final version 1.0 :) [10:31] if couchdb formats are meant to be changed that often, this seems like the most important thing to have right from the beginning.. [10:32] well, so far, this is the only rename, until now we just added fields, which, yes, is a change [10:33] rodrigo_, pitti, yes, we need a format version field [10:33] yes, bvut also we need to have apps be aware of that version field, and refuse to save docs if they don't understand the version [10:33] can we add that without breaking existing apps? it seems that version field would be subject to deletion as well? [10:34] pitti, we need to make all apps aware, I'm afraid [10:35] yes, current apps will gleefully ignore the format version, and always try to work with what they get [10:35] pitti, for every change we make, that is [10:35] pitti, that's why we coordinated the SRU with changes in the server [10:36] so it seems we really need a solution which includes a version field, otherwise we'll run into the same problem over and over again [10:36] and it gets worse over time, when more and more apps use those DBs [10:37] rodrigo_: this could be passed as an "expected version" field in the connect function, and default to "0" if not given? [10:37] and that current change would then bump it to 1? [10:37] this would at least make those old apps crash with an exception instead of scribbling old data over new ones [10:38] pitti, that's why we want to add a contacts API to desktopcouch, as we do in couchdb-glib, so that apps just use that set/get API instead of free form field names, as it is now [10:38] pitti, then, the version/format details would just be in couchdb-glib/desktopcouch [10:42] rodrigo_: but this seems to affect all DBs, not just contacts? [10:42] pitti, yes, all dbs [10:42] i. e. it seems to make more sense to apply this version check/field to all DBs and default to 0 if it's not there [10:42] pitti, that's why in couichdb-glib I'm adding API for all specific formats [10:42] ah, ok; sounds good [10:42] if we can convert data loss into app crash, this seems much better [10:43] and we discussed at UDS doing the same for desktopcouch [10:44] so the problem is not really in the format itself, but on letting apps use the field names they want, instead of an API that deals with format changes [10:45] we have the same problem now for other fields, if some app does firstname instead of first_name as the field name, we lose data [10:53] rebooting on maverick, bbl (or not ;)) [11:05] what should I do with gnome-menus bugs mentioning Ubuntu in upstream bugzilla? [11:08] vuntz, ? [11:08] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618762 [11:08] vuntz, could you explain the question? [11:08] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618780 [11:08] Gnome bug 618762 in libgnome-menu "Manually created menu item in Gnome disappears from Gnome, Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit).after reboot" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [11:09] Gnome bug 618780 in libgnome-menu "Main Menu wrong position after instalation any programs" [Minor,Unconfirmed] [11:09] seb128: since you're patching gnome-menus to use the cache stuff, it's possibly ubuntu-specific bugs [11:10] vuntz, ask them to open the bug on launchpad or to try without the cache as you prefer there [11:10] vuntz, i.e they can clean /usr/share/applications/desktop*cache [11:10] and try without it [11:10] ok [11:10] or ask to open the bug on launchpad [11:11] thanks [11:11] vuntz, thank you ;-) [11:12] vuntz, shame that you didn't come to UDS btw! [11:12] but good to see you hacking on GNOME ;-) [11:12] vuntz, btw have you seen bugs similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/439448 [11:12] Launchpad bug 439448 in gnome-panel "visual corruption affecting several panel applets" [Low,Triaged] [11:12] vuntz, do you have any clue how we could try to debug those? [11:13] hey vuntz [11:13] vuntz, yeah, we missed you at uds [11:14] seb128: never seen this [11:14] seb128: but I guess I'd add some nice printf code in the notification area [11:15] vuntz, it seems to not be restricted in the notification area though [11:15] it's indeed a shame I couldn't come be an annoyance to all of you ;-) [11:15] seb128: oh? [11:15] seb128: in this case, I have no idea [11:15] ok [11:19] vuntz, oh, no we missed you because we didn't have someone to assign all weird bugs to, not because we wanted to see you :D [11:26] rodrigo_: :-) [11:40] czajkowski, you're laura, right? [11:40] rodrigo_: yup [11:41] czajkowski, I tried to find you on Friday morning, but then I had to leave at noon, so, want me to help you debug your tomboy problem? [11:41] rodrigo_: ah great [11:42] rodrigo_: sure. basically I was syncing my tomboy notes on othe machine to U1 and then on this machine synching again, but nothing was updating but it was telling it was [11:42] czajkowski, ok, can you quit tomboy and run on a terminal -> tomboy --debug [11:42] czajkowski, and try again the syncing? [11:42] czajkowski, then, pastebin the outpur [11:43] output [11:43] will do [11:44] http://paste.ubuntu.com/434870/ [11:48] rodrigo_: it missed last few lines in previous paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/434872/ [11:49] czajkowski, yeah, it says there are no updates [11:49] rodrigo_: which is weird as the note from UDS hasn't been updated and it is missing a lot of information [11:49] and I've synced that note to U1 [11:49] hmm [11:50] and I've just resynced it to be sure [11:50] czajkowski, can you try again syncing? [11:50] sure [11:50] czajkowski, ah, ok, and the Sync: New revision: what does it say? [11:51] just checking [11:53] rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434874/ same thing, says it's updating on this machine but nothing is happening [11:54] czajkowski, have you done changes on both the web UI and tomboy before syncing? [11:54] just tomboy.. [12:02] czajkowski, can you just add a little change to any note in tomboy and try again? [12:02] sure [12:03] right that machine syned and said one note was up to date, now going to see if it updated on this machine. [12:04] 0 notes are updated: your notes are up to date. [12:30] czajkowski, hmm, weird [12:30] just a tad :) [12:30] czajkowski, are there changes on the notes that are in the machine that fails? [12:31] nope [12:31] czajkowski, ok, so can you open tomboy's prefs and see where it's pointing to? (Prefs->Synchronization) [12:34] services# [12:34] ; [12:34] Tomboy Web [12:34] server: https://one.ubuntu.com/notes [12:35] rodrigo_: getting (tomboy:21612): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_is_ancestor: assertion `ancestor != NULL' failed [12:35] in the debug window [12:35] ugh [12:36] when you say ugh it can't be good [12:36] no, it means I don't know why that happens :) [12:36] really wish I found you on Friday [12:36] czajkowski, yeah [12:36] czajkowski, let's try one thing though: [12:36] quit tomboy [12:37] done [12:37] then mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place [12:37] then, restart tomboy and go to prefs, and clear the sync server and re-authorize again [12:37] all this, on the machine that has the old notes [12:38] make sure tomboy doesn't see any notes first, before re-authorizing it again [12:42] rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434912/ that seemed to work but got that on output [12:43] czajkowski, hmm, tomboy didn't list any notes before you re-authorized it? === cking is now known as cking-afk [12:44] it did but I've a lot and didn't want to copy them all in ;) [12:46] ah, ok, but you want to get the new versions from the server [12:46] so that's why I asked you to mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place [12:46] thus, you'll get all the notes from the server [12:47] I did [12:47] oh, then why it complains about a note with the same title? [12:48] hmm let me go check the folder [12:50] mm folder has been backed up [12:52] oh [12:52] I have a few errands to do but will be back in a while. sorry [12:55] czajkowski, ok === cking-afk is now known as cking [13:24] seb128, hi [13:36] hey rickspencer3! [13:37] rickspencer3, how are you? it's very early, still jetlaged? [13:37] seb128, oh yes [13:37] I was up before 4am! [13:37] rickspencer3, I don't ask if you had a good flight back since I read that you apparently didn't :-( [13:37] lol [13:37] * seb128 hugs rickspencer3 [13:37] * rickspencer3 hugs back [13:37] * rickspencer3 wipes tear of self-pitty from eye [13:37] I'm all better now! [13:38] good ;-) [13:38] seb128, so, I guess we need to start cracking the whip? [13:38] yes! [13:38] hey rickspencer3 [13:38] I guess first thing is a list of blueprints that we are targeting? [13:38] hi pitti! [13:38] rickspencer3, I was just about to look at those, just finishing explain claims first to get paper work out of the way [13:39] ah, right [13:39] pitti, how is OEM services treating you? [13:40] I'm getting into it :) [13:40] nice [13:46] are we still uploading SRU's to lucid-proposed and then pocket copying to maverick? (or should i be uploading stuff to lucid now?) [13:46] hey rickspencer3 seb128 [13:46] s/lucid/maverick [13:46] d'oh [13:47] chrisccoulson, hey, yes [13:47] as long as maverick is in sync with lucid you can keep doing that [13:47] cool, thanks [13:47] it stops when the concerned source has maverick changes [13:47] hi chrisccoulson [13:48] hey rickspencer3, how are you? [13:48] chrisccoulson, fine [13:48] nice jet lag, so up bright and early [13:48] chrisccoulson, didrocks I think we should create a new blueprint: [13:48] "Chromium on UNE" [13:48] rickspencer3: right, should be a good idea (hi btw ;)) [13:48] pitti, how does the work item tracker list things which are assigned to the desktop team? [13:48] heh, i was thinking that when i started mapping out the work that needs to happen ;) [13:48] hi didrocks ;) [13:49] kewl [13:49] pitti, does it takes specs which are assigned to any of the team member? or use the naming? [13:49] seb128: it'll appear as exactly that: a WI assigned to "canonical-desktop-team" [13:49] seb128: oh, you mean "things" == "spec", not "things" == "WI" [13:49] seb128: that should just work [13:50] seb128: usually they get assigned to a person, in which case it figures out the team of that person [13:50] pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10.html [13:50] how do we populate that list I guess is my question [13:50] seb128, should we have a specific blueprint for shotwell? [13:50] just by setting the serie goals? [13:50] rickspencer3, yes [13:50] seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html [13:51] seb128, ack [13:51] seb128: the -ubuntu-10.10 one are the specs/WIs _milestoned_ to "ubuntu-10.10", i. e. to final [13:51] I'll try to have a call with them this afternoon (the yorba guys) [13:51] we shouldn't do that just yet [13:51] pitti, same question still ;-) is the serie goal enough? [13:51] pitti, how does it figure that spec is desktop team land? [13:51] seb128: yes, "accepted for maverick" is sufficient [13:51] seb128: because it's assigned to someone in the c-d-t [13:52] ok good [13:52] thanks! [13:52] * seb128 hugs pitti [13:52] pitti, do I have access to resetting the database or should I ping you about that once we have WIs listed? [13:52] seb128: it's running as me ATM, so please feel free to ping me [13:52] seb128, do you think it's feasible to have a list of blueprints for each person by eod tomorrow? [13:53] (eod today if you are US based?) [13:53] seb128: but all files are pitti:warthogs 775, so you should be able to as well [13:53] ie I guess we will spend this week writting WIs and then set the trendline next week [13:53] * rickspencer3 wants to get cracking [13:53] rickspencer3, blueprints yes [13:53] WIs by thursday evening [13:53] pitti, thanks [13:53] seb128, shall I send an email to the team? [13:54] rickspencer3, please do [13:54] seb128, also, I'd like folks to calculate their WI/week rate [13:54] I'll send email in 30-60 mins. [13:54] rickspencer3, can you reminder people to set the assignee and and approver too while they are at it? [13:54] yes [13:54] thanks [14:06] seb128, in what form do you want people's list blueprints? [14:06] an email to you or such? [14:08] hey rickspencer3 [14:08] hi kenvandine [14:09] rickspencer3, i have sick baby duty for a bit this morning... can we postpone our 1:1? [14:09] i am upgrading to maverick while holding him :) [14:09] kenvandine, yes [14:09] thx [14:09] he has been throwing up since thursday :( [14:10] good morning everyone [14:10] taking him back to dr today [14:10] hey ccheney [14:10] hey ccheney [14:10] hey kenvandine too [14:10] rickspencer3, email works fine, or just set me as approver works too [14:11] seb128, how can we distinguish blueprints we are going to work on versus ones we won't? [14:11] rickspencer3, but yeah, ask for people to email their list it will be clearer this way [14:11] rickspencer3, "serie goal" set to maverick we will work on [14:11] rickspencer3, those are the ones who will get on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html [14:11] ok [14:12] so we'll set the series goal and set as approver [14:12] rickspencer3, ie set the serie goal for maverick for things we will be doing this cycle [14:12] yes [14:13] rickspencer3, I'm going to go through the list now and set the serie goals for the ones I know about already, we can then tweak if other suggestions get listed by tomorrow [14:13] thanks seb128 [14:13] np [14:21] seb128, can anyone on the team set the series goal for blueprints, or will they have to ask you or I to do it? [14:21] I'm not sure since I've access [14:21] didrocks, ^ can you change serie goals? [14:21] or just suggest the goal and need somebody to accept it for you? [14:22] (or other non admin team members who want to try) [14:22] seb128: seems that I can [14:22] it's proposed [14:23] "Proposed for maverick" [14:23] ok [14:23] rickspencer3, so they can suggest those and we need to approve them later [14:23] didrocks, thanks [14:23] mvo, your fast! [14:23] seb128: y/w [14:24] kenvandine: only for stuff that I like ;) [14:24] mvo, thx for merging that branch [14:24] :) [14:24] kenvandine: thanks for pushing it, its a cool idea [14:25] mvo, i might do some more tweaking [14:25] mvo, I'm about to archive a copy of the USC 2.0 spec and start revising for 3.0. Is that okay by you? [14:25] kenvandine: sure, just let me know (or push your branch) [14:25] will do [14:25] mpt: yes, maybe just rename the page to "SoftwareCenter-2.0" so that its archived in the current state? [14:26] ooh, MoinMoin has a "Copy Page" command, never noticed that before [14:26] mpt: the daily builds stuff will be super interessting for you I think, lots of stuff in mavericks s-c branch, but I guess you will want to wait a bit until you install it, until then we can create a daily-build ppa [14:28] mvo, why wait? :-) As long as it runs on 10.04 [14:29] mpt: good point [14:30] the daily-build PPA support is currently not in edge yet afaik (at least the stuff that can build directly from a bzr branch) [14:30] mvo, is it due soon? [14:31] apparently, there was a lot of talk about it at uds [14:31] I need to check with dholbach, he is leading the documentation effort for it [14:35] ok [14:38] mvo, I copied the current spec to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/2.0 [14:40] ok, cool [14:45] This History section is pretty nifty :-) === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_ [14:47] yeah, kudos to olivier [14:48] its a great team [14:48] mvo, why is the trunk version number "1.1.21debian1"? [14:49] mpt: that is the version in maverick, right? that was a misguided autosync [14:49] mpt: bzr trunk should be 2.1.0 [14:50] mvo, 1.1.21debian1 is what the About box says in bzr trunk [14:51] mpt: aha, the version string is auto-generated at build, could you run "python setup.py build" and see if that fixes it? [14:51] hm, I closed the window and the terminal command didn't exit... [14:52] mvo, yep, now it says 2.1.0 :-) [14:53] :) [14:53] cool [14:53] did I mention how excited I'm about the new stuff that is comming? its going to be awsome [14:55] mvo, the subprocess stuff was blocking the ui, is that a known problem or a bug i introduced :) [14:55] kenvandine: a bug you added, but it should be fixed in the bits that I commited [14:55] great [14:56] thx [14:56] kenvandine: so if you merge back from trunk it should be fine [14:56] awesome [14:56] kenvandine: there are some other minor modifcations, but only small stuff [14:57] kenvandine: a good name is needed, but I guess that is really hard "share" on its own may be confused with "share via a usb-key" [14:57] yeah, i was going to ask for feedback [14:57] same for the string that gets posted [14:58] * mvo nods [14:58]