[08:01] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[08:02] <pitti> hey didrocks, had a nice weekend?
[08:03] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, really nice with some sun \o/ thanks, and you?
[08:04] <pitti> me too, I finally rode my bicycle again yesterday, and visited my grandparents
[08:04] <pitti> my flat was still in one piece, and I still recognized it after three weeks :-P
[08:04]  * pitti needs to leave for a bit for a doctor appointment and supermarket; my fridge is absolutely empty
[08:05] <didrocks> pitti: same here ;) see you later!
[09:01] <seb128> hello there
[09:11] <mvo> hey seb128!
[09:11] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:11] <seb128> how are you?
[09:11] <seb128> had a good trip back?
[09:11] <mvo> good, easy trip back, also I missed my connection in luxemburg by 1 minute :/
[09:12] <mvo> but not a big deal, it was just 1h until the next train
[09:12] <mvo> but I discovered that the train station is not very exciting ;)
[09:12] <seb128> hehe, indeed
[09:12] <mvo> and you? all easy?
[09:13] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[09:14] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:14] <seb128> mvo, yes, left at 9:15, was home at 11;25
[09:14] <mvo> heh :)
[09:14] <seb128> I crossed Lucas at breakfast who came by car
[09:15] <didrocks> seb128: and so, you finally drove back and he played on his computer?
[09:15] <seb128> and he's living in Nancy, ie my place was on his road back
[09:15] <seb128> didrocks, I drove but he didn't geek ;-)
[09:15] <didrocks> :-)
[09:15] <mvo> haha
[09:15] <seb128> didrocks, bien rentré ? c'était bien ton ubuntu-party-meeting samedi ?
[09:16] <seb128> mvo, he made me drive, wouldn't pick me up if I was not driving
[09:16] <didrocks> seb128: oui, dans la même voiture/train que le DPL, on a bien parlé ;) sinon le meeting, bof… rien de préparé et personne de motivé donc j'ai improvisé :/
[09:16] <seb128> see how the Debian guys are :p
[09:16] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:17] <seb128> didrocks, t'étais pas tout seul au moins à ta réunion  ? ;-)
[09:17] <didrocks> seb128: non, tout de même ^^ mais beaucoup de nouveaux installeurs, donc c'était pour leurs présenter les nouveautés + les best practices
[09:17] <mvo> seb128: did he at least have a nice car?
[09:18] <didrocks> (avec un gros troll du /home séparé ou non qui court encore…)
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:18] <seb128> mvo, no
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: you really should complain to him about his car :-)
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: well, when you arrived, of course ;)
[09:19] <seb128> mvo, a suzuki one I never saw before, it feels quite low quality and it's noisy with slow engine
[09:19] <seb128> I will not complain though I was home for lunch rather than by 17h
[09:19] <seb128> ;-)
[09:20] <didrocks> sweet :-)
[09:22] <seb128> I forgot to take some CDs during UDS
[09:22] <seb128> I noticed saturday
[09:22] <seb128> I think I've not seen those around during the week
[09:25] <czajkowski> pitti: ping
[09:26] <DASPRiD> czajkowski, pong
[09:27] <czajkowski> DASPRiD: pitti ?
[09:27] <DASPRiD> nah, just a man-in-the-middle attack :)
[09:27] <seb128> czajkowski, you should ask your question
[09:27] <seb128> czajkowski, contextless pings are not that useful
[09:28] <czajkowski> seb128: well I was told to ask for pitti as it's to do with burndown charts
[09:28] <czajkowski> seb128: hence the ping for him :)
[09:28] <seb128> czajkowski, you can do useful ping, ie write some pitti: how do I change those in charts?
[09:29] <czajkowski> seb128: ok
[09:29] <seb128> czajkowski, so he can reply when he's back, you being still around or not
[09:29] <seb128> also other people might be able to reply
[09:29] <czajkowski> pitti: any change of helping me change the blueprint to Ubuntu and no Ubuntu-community https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-loco-manual-and-guidelinesas selecting Ubuntu isn't helping me change it.  then I'll be able to change series goal
[09:30] <czajkowski> seb128: cheers, won't use ping in here again :)
[09:42] <pitti> czajkowski: hello
[09:42] <pitti> hey seb128, bonjour; had a safe trip home?
[09:43] <seb128> hey pitti!
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, yes, 2 hours by car with lucas
[09:43] <pitti> czajkowski: I don't think you can do that with blueprints; you probably have to set that to "superseded" and open a new one against ubuntu
[09:44] <czajkowski> pitti: ah ok, just when I select Ubuntu, it's saying too large and to narrow down criteria
[09:46] <seb128> pitti, what about you? did you have a good trip back?
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: yes, it went smoothly; I was with Torsten until Frankfurt, and then the last 4.5 hours to Dresden; we even arrived 10 mins early
[09:47] <pitti> I did some postgresql stuff and watched some movies
[09:47] <seb128> good
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: we had some sun yesterday, so I spent some hours on my bike, as well as doing the laundry etc.
[09:48] <seb128> we had some sun too there
[09:48] <seb128> I went for a walk was good
[09:58] <huats> morning
[10:09] <rodrigo_> pitti, ping
[10:09] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[10:09] <rodrigo_> pitti, exhausted still :) how about you, got home safely?
[10:10] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[10:11] <rodrigo_> pitti, tried to talk with you on Thursday about bug #571286, but either I couldn't find you or you were in the middle of busy discussions :)
[10:11] <rodrigo_> pitti, so, do you have a minute to talk about it?
[10:17] <pitti> bug 571286
[10:18] <pitti>  hey chrisccoulson
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> are you rested from last week now?
[10:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: sure (I'm scanning some stuff for expenses, but I'll answer)
[10:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, had a quiet train ride and a nice Sunday; how about you?
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i flew back on saturday morning and caught up on some sleep :)
[10:19] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok, so, we fixed it in couchdb-glib supporting the old format, and right now, in lucid, users that enter street information on evolution can't see it in the web UI and viceversa
[10:20] <rodrigo_> pitti, so, this is the best way we could find to fix it
[10:20] <rodrigo_> pitti, as for other apps using the format without couchdb-glib, there is the web ui for u1 and macaco-contacts, which use desktopcouch, and both should be changed now to support the new format
[10:21] <rodrigo_> pitti, but in lucid, there's nothing else using it, afaik
[10:22] <rodrigo_> pitti, also, both couchdb-glib and the u1 web ui support the old format, so if any app didn't change, we would still support it
[10:23] <pitti> rodrigo_: hm, is couchdb-glib the only way to access couchdb? you can certainly talk to it in other ways, too?
[10:23] <pitti> rodrigo_: also, if a db entry has the old format, it looked like it would actually rewrite it (thus breaking other apps that rely on the old format)? or does it do on-the-fly conversion and keep the old format on disk?
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, via desktopcouch, but it doesn't include field level detail, it's up to the app to use the correct field names, so we've changed all the apps we control
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, it moves the record to the new format on disk
[10:24] <pitti> right, I'm concerned about the ones that we don't control
[10:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, we discussed about keeping the old field, but we don't want to do that, if not we'll end up with lots of fields in the record for every change we do
[10:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, the only one we don't control is macaco contacts, which is not even in lucid
[10:25] <pitti> well, there might be dozens of quickly apps by now which use it, too?
[10:26] <pitti> this is not an Ubuntu distro-only thing, after all
[10:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, desktopcouch yes, but not sure about the contacts database
[10:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, and apps using the contacts db, they should watch the freedesktop page for changes
[10:27] <rodrigo_> teknico, anything to add?
[10:27] <pitti> that'd require all those apps to suddenly be aware of this, though
[10:28] <pitti> rodrigo_: wouldn't it be safer to leave the on-disk format as it is and just convert the format on the fly?
[10:28] <rodrigo_> yes, but the same will happen again when we add social networking accounts to the contact format, which we'll be doing soon
[10:28] <pitti> changing on-disk format is really not something that should be done post release
[10:28] <rodrigo_> pitti, as I said, we discussed that, but we don't want to set a precedent to do that, or we'll end up supporting dozens of fields
[10:29] <teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, the contacts web ui and the funambol interface can be made to work both ways, but it would be messier to have to keep old and new format in sync all the time
[10:29] <pitti> rodrigo_: adding new fields seems fine, though? old apps would just ignore those?
[10:29] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, when saving docs to couchdb, you send the whole doc, so if they ignore those fields, they might remove them
[10:30] <pitti> urgh
[10:30] <rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make sure people are aware of all changes, yes
[10:30] <rodrigo_> or have a schema checker, or something
[10:30] <pitti> couchdb doesn't support a thing like that, such as a "layout version" field which we can bump and apps need to check?
[10:31] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, we can have a 'record-type-version' field
[10:31] <pitti> I mean it's not already there?
[10:31] <rodrigo_> no
[10:31] <rodrigo_> because we haven't really came up with final version 1.0 :)
[10:31] <pitti> if couchdb formats are meant to be changed that often, this seems like the most important thing to have right from the beginning..
[10:32] <rodrigo_> well, so far, this is the only rename, until now we just added fields, which, yes, is a change
[10:33] <teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, yes, we need a format version field
[10:33] <rodrigo_> yes, bvut also we need to have apps be aware of that version field, and refuse to save docs if they don't understand the version
[10:33] <pitti> can we add that without breaking existing apps? it seems that version field would be subject to deletion as well?
[10:34] <rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make all apps aware, I'm afraid
[10:35] <teknico> yes, current apps will gleefully ignore the format version, and always try to work with what they get
[10:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, for every change we make, that is
[10:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we coordinated the SRU with changes in the server
[10:36] <pitti> so it seems we really need a solution which includes a version field, otherwise we'll run into the same problem over and over again
[10:36] <pitti> and it gets worse over time, when more and more apps use those DBs
[10:37] <pitti> rodrigo_: this could be passed as an "expected version" field in the connect function, and default to "0" if not given?
[10:37] <pitti> and that current change would then bump it to 1?
[10:37] <pitti> this would at least make those old apps crash with an exception instead of scribbling old data over new ones
[10:38] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we want to add a contacts API to desktopcouch, as we do in couchdb-glib, so that apps just use that set/get API instead of free form field names, as it is now
[10:38] <rodrigo_> pitti, then, the version/format details would just be in couchdb-glib/desktopcouch
[10:42] <pitti> rodrigo_: but this seems to affect all DBs, not just contacts?
[10:42] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, all dbs
[10:42] <pitti> i. e. it seems to make more sense to apply this version check/field to all DBs and default to 0 if it's not there
[10:42] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why in couichdb-glib I'm adding API for all specific formats
[10:42] <pitti> ah, ok; sounds good
[10:42] <pitti> if we can convert data loss into app crash, this seems much better
[10:43] <rodrigo_> and we discussed at UDS doing the same for desktopcouch
[10:44] <rodrigo_> so the problem is not really in the format itself, but on letting apps use the field names they want, instead of an API that deals with format changes
[10:45] <rodrigo_> we have the same problem now for other fields, if some app does firstname instead of first_name as the field name, we lose data
[10:53] <didrocks> rebooting on maverick, bbl (or not ;))
[11:05] <vuntz> what should I do with gnome-menus bugs mentioning Ubuntu in upstream bugzilla?
[11:08] <seb128> vuntz, ?
[11:08] <vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618762
[11:08] <seb128> vuntz, could you explain the question?
[11:08] <vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618780
[11:09] <vuntz> seb128: since you're patching gnome-menus to use the cache stuff, it's possibly ubuntu-specific bugs
[11:10] <seb128> vuntz, ask them to open the bug on launchpad or to try without the cache as you prefer there
[11:10] <seb128> vuntz, i.e they can clean /usr/share/applications/desktop*cache
[11:10] <seb128> and try without it
[11:10] <vuntz> ok
[11:10] <seb128> or ask to open the bug on launchpad
[11:11] <vuntz> thanks
[11:11] <seb128> vuntz, thank you ;-)
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, shame that you didn't come to UDS btw!
[11:12] <seb128> but good to see you hacking on GNOME ;-)
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, btw have you seen bugs similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/439448
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, do you have any clue how we could try to debug those?
[11:13] <rodrigo_> hey vuntz
[11:13] <rodrigo_> vuntz, yeah, we missed you at uds
[11:14] <vuntz> seb128: never seen this
[11:14] <vuntz> seb128: but I guess I'd add some nice printf code in the notification area
[11:15] <seb128> vuntz, it seems to not be restricted in the notification area though
[11:15] <vuntz> it's indeed a shame I couldn't come be an annoyance to all of you ;-)
[11:15] <vuntz> seb128: oh?
[11:15] <vuntz> seb128: in this case, I have no idea
[11:15] <seb128> ok
[11:19] <rodrigo_> vuntz, oh, no we missed you because we didn't have someone to assign all weird bugs to, not because we wanted to see you :D
[11:26] <vuntz> rodrigo_: :-)
[11:40] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, you're laura, right?
[11:40] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: yup
[11:41] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, I tried to find you on Friday morning, but then I had to leave at noon, so, want me to help you debug your tomboy problem?
[11:41] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: ah great
[11:42] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: sure. basically I was syncing my tomboy notes on othe machine to U1 and then on this machine synching again, but nothing was updating but it was telling it was
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, can you quit tomboy and run on a terminal -> tomboy --debug
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, and try again the syncing?
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, then, pastebin the outpur
[11:43] <rodrigo_> output
[11:43] <czajkowski> will do
[11:44] <czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/434870/
[11:48] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: it missed last few lines in previous paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/434872/
[11:49] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah, it says there are no updates
[11:49] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: which is weird as the note from UDS hasn't been updated and it is missing a lot of information
[11:49] <czajkowski> and I've synced that note to U1
[11:49] <rodrigo_> hmm
[11:50] <czajkowski> and I've just resynced it to be sure
[11:50] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you try again syncing?
[11:50] <czajkowski> sure
[11:50] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ah, ok, and the Sync: New revision: what does it say?
[11:51] <czajkowski> just checking
[11:53] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434874/ same thing, says it's updating on this machine but nothing is happening
[11:54] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, have you done changes on both the web UI and tomboy before syncing?
[11:54] <czajkowski> just tomboy..
[12:02] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you just add a little change to any note in tomboy and try again?
[12:02] <czajkowski> sure
[12:03] <czajkowski> right that machine syned and said one note was up to date, now going to see if it updated on this machine.
[12:04] <czajkowski> 0 notes are updated: your notes are up to date.
[12:30] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, weird
[12:30] <czajkowski>  just a tad :)
[12:30] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, are there changes on the notes that are in the machine that fails?
[12:31] <czajkowski> nope
[12:31] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, so can you open tomboy's prefs and see where it's pointing to? (Prefs->Synchronization)
[12:34] <czajkowski> services#
[12:34] <czajkowski> ;
[12:34] <czajkowski> Tomboy Web
[12:34] <czajkowski> server: https://one.ubuntu.com/notes
[12:35] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: getting (tomboy:21612): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_is_ancestor: assertion `ancestor != NULL' failed
[12:35] <czajkowski> in the debug window
[12:35] <rodrigo_> ugh
[12:36] <czajkowski> when you say ugh it can't be good
[12:36] <rodrigo_> no, it means I don't know why that happens :)
[12:36] <czajkowski> really wish I found you on Friday
[12:36] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah
[12:36] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, let's try one thing though:
[12:36] <rodrigo_> quit tomboy
[12:37] <czajkowski> done
[12:37] <rodrigo_> then mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
[12:37] <rodrigo_> then, restart tomboy and go to prefs, and clear the sync server and re-authorize again
[12:37] <rodrigo_> all this, on the machine that has the old notes
[12:38] <rodrigo_> make sure tomboy doesn't see any notes first, before re-authorizing it again
[12:42] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434912/ that seemed to work but got that on output
[12:43] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, tomboy didn't list any notes before you re-authorized it?
[12:44] <czajkowski> it did but I've a lot and didn't want to copy them all in ;)
[12:46] <rodrigo_> ah, ok, but you want to get the new versions from the server
[12:46] <rodrigo_> so that's why I asked you to mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
[12:46] <rodrigo_> thus, you'll get all the notes from the server
[12:47] <czajkowski> I did
[12:47] <rodrigo_> oh, then why it complains about a note with the same title?
[12:48] <czajkowski> hmm let me go check the folder
[12:50] <czajkowski> mm folder has been backed up
[12:52] <rodrigo_> oh
[12:52] <czajkowski> I have a few errands to do but will be back in a while. sorry
[12:55] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok
[13:24] <rickspencer3> seb128, hi
[13:36] <seb128> hey rickspencer3!
[13:37] <seb128> rickspencer3, how are you? it's very early, still jetlaged?
[13:37] <rickspencer3> seb128, oh yes
[13:37] <rickspencer3> I was up before 4am!
[13:37] <seb128> rickspencer3, I don't ask if you had a good flight back since I read that you apparently didn't :-(
[13:37] <rickspencer3> lol
[13:37]  * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
[13:37]  * rickspencer3 hugs back
[13:37]  * rickspencer3 wipes tear of self-pitty from eye
[13:37] <rickspencer3> I'm all better now!
[13:38] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:38] <rickspencer3> seb128, so, I guess we need to start cracking the whip?
[13:38] <seb128> yes!
[13:38] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[13:38] <rickspencer3> I guess first thing is a list of blueprints that we are targeting?
[13:38] <rickspencer3> hi pitti!
[13:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, I was just about to look at those, just finishing explain claims first to get paper work out of the way
[13:39] <rickspencer3> ah, right
[13:39] <rickspencer3> pitti, how is OEM services treating you?
[13:40] <pitti> I'm getting into it :)
[13:40] <rickspencer3> nice
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> are we still uploading SRU's to lucid-proposed and then pocket copying to maverick? (or should i be uploading stuff to lucid now?)
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3 seb128
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> s/lucid/maverick
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> d'oh
[13:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, yes
[13:47] <seb128> as long as maverick is in sync with lucid you can keep doing that
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[13:47] <seb128> it stops when the concerned source has maverick changes
[13:47] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
[13:48] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, fine
[13:48] <rickspencer3> nice jet lag, so up bright and early
[13:48] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, didrocks I think we should create a new blueprint:
[13:48] <rickspencer3> "Chromium on UNE"
[13:48] <didrocks> rickspencer3: right, should be a good idea (hi btw ;))
[13:48] <seb128> pitti, how does the work item tracker list things which are assigned to the desktop team?
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> heh, i was thinking that when i started mapping out the work that needs to happen ;)
[13:48] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks ;)
[13:49] <rickspencer3> kewl
[13:49] <seb128> pitti, does it takes specs which are assigned to any of the team member? or use the naming?
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: it'll appear as exactly that: a WI assigned to "canonical-desktop-team"
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: oh, you mean "things" == "spec", not "things" == "WI"
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: that should just work
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: usually they get assigned to a person, in which case it figures out the team of that person
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
[13:50] <seb128> how do we populate that list I guess is my question
[13:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, should we have a specific blueprint for shotwell?
[13:50] <seb128> just by setting the serie goals?
[13:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
[13:51] <rickspencer3> seb128, ack
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: the -ubuntu-10.10 one are the specs/WIs _milestoned_ to "ubuntu-10.10", i. e. to final
[13:51] <rickspencer3> I'll try to have a call with them this afternoon (the yorba guys)
[13:51] <pitti> we shouldn't do that just yet
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, same question still ;-) is the serie goal enough?
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, how does it figure that spec is desktop team land?
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, "accepted for maverick" is sufficient
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: because it's assigned to someone in the c-d-t
[13:52] <seb128> ok good
[13:52] <seb128> thanks!
[13:52]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[13:52] <seb128> pitti, do I have access to resetting the database or should I ping you about that once we have WIs listed?
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: it's running as me ATM, so please feel free to ping me
[13:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you think it's feasible to have a list of blueprints for each person by eod tomorrow?
[13:53] <rickspencer3> (eod today if you are US based?)
[13:53] <pitti> seb128: but all files are pitti:warthogs 775, so you should be able to as well
[13:53] <seb128> ie I guess we will spend this week writting WIs and then set the trendline next week
[13:53]  * rickspencer3 wants to get cracking
[13:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, blueprints yes
[13:53] <seb128> WIs by thursday evening
[13:53] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[13:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, shall I send an email to the team?
[13:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, please do
[13:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, also, I'd like folks to calculate their WI/week rate
[13:54] <rickspencer3> I'll send email in 30-60 mins.
[13:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, can you reminder people to set the assignee and and approver too while they are at it?
[13:54] <rickspencer3> yes
[13:54] <seb128> thanks
[14:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, in what form do you want people's list blueprints?
[14:06] <rickspencer3> an email to you or such?
[14:08] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:08] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
[14:09] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i have sick baby duty for a bit this morning... can we postpone our 1:1?
[14:09] <kenvandine> i am upgrading to maverick while holding him :)
[14:09] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, yes
[14:09] <kenvandine> thx
[14:09] <kenvandine> he has been throwing up since thursday :(
[14:10] <ccheney> good morning everyone
[14:10] <kenvandine> taking him back to dr today
[14:10] <kenvandine> hey ccheney
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> hey ccheney
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> hey kenvandine too
[14:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, email works fine, or just set me as approver works too
[14:11] <rickspencer3> seb128, how can we distinguish blueprints we are going to work on versus ones we won't?
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, but yeah, ask for people to email their list it will be clearer this way
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, "serie goal" set to maverick we will work on
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, those are the ones who will get on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
[14:11] <rickspencer3> ok
[14:12] <rickspencer3> so we'll set the series goal and set as approver
[14:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, ie set the serie goal for maverick for things we will be doing this cycle
[14:12] <seb128> yes
[14:13] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm going to go through the list now and set the serie goals for the ones I know about already, we can then tweak if other suggestions get listed by tomorrow
[14:13] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[14:13] <seb128> np
[14:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, can anyone on the team set the series goal for blueprints, or will they have to ask you or I to do it?
[14:21] <seb128> I'm not sure since I've access
[14:21] <seb128> didrocks, ^ can you change serie goals?
[14:21] <seb128> or just suggest the goal and need somebody to accept it for you?
[14:22] <seb128> (or other non admin team members who want to try)
[14:22] <didrocks> seb128: seems that I can
[14:22] <didrocks> it's proposed
[14:23] <didrocks> "Proposed for maverick"
[14:23] <seb128> ok
[14:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, so they can suggest those and we need to approve them later
[14:23] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[14:23] <kenvandine> mvo, your fast!
[14:23] <didrocks> seb128: y/w
[14:24] <mvo> kenvandine: only for stuff that I like ;)
[14:24] <kenvandine> mvo, thx for merging that branch
[14:24] <kenvandine> :)
[14:24] <mvo> kenvandine: thanks for pushing it, its a cool idea
[14:25] <kenvandine> mvo, i might do some more tweaking
[14:25] <mpt> mvo, I'm about to archive a copy of the USC 2.0 spec and start revising for 3.0. Is that okay by you?
[14:25] <mvo> kenvandine: sure, just let me know (or push your branch)
[14:25] <kenvandine> will do
[14:25] <mvo> mpt: yes, maybe just rename the page to "SoftwareCenter-2.0" so that its archived in the current state?
[14:26] <mpt> ooh, MoinMoin has a "Copy Page" command, never noticed that before
[14:26] <mvo> mpt: the daily builds stuff will be super interessting for you I think, lots of stuff in mavericks s-c branch, but I guess you will want to wait a bit until you install it, until then we can create a daily-build ppa
[14:28] <mpt> mvo, why wait? :-) As long as it runs on 10.04
[14:29] <mvo> mpt: good point
[14:30] <mvo> the daily-build PPA support is currently not in edge yet afaik (at least the stuff that can build directly from a bzr branch)
[14:30] <mpt> mvo, is it due soon?
[14:31] <mvo> apparently, there was a lot of talk about it at uds
[14:31] <mvo> I need to check with dholbach, he is leading the documentation effort for it
[14:35] <mpt> ok
[14:38] <mpt> mvo, I copied the current spec to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/2.0
[14:40] <mvo> ok, cool
[14:45] <mpt> This History section is pretty nifty :-)
[14:47] <mvo> yeah, kudos to olivier
[14:48] <mvo> its a great team
[14:48] <mpt> mvo, why is the trunk version number "1.1.21debian1"?
[14:49] <mvo> mpt: that is the version in maverick, right? that was a misguided autosync
[14:49] <mvo> mpt: bzr trunk should be 2.1.0
[14:50] <mpt> mvo, 1.1.21debian1 is what the About box says in bzr trunk
[14:51] <mvo> mpt: aha, the version string is auto-generated at build, could you run "python setup.py build" and see if that fixes it?
[14:51] <mpt> hm, I closed the window and the terminal command didn't exit...
[14:52] <mpt> mvo, yep, now it says 2.1.0 :-)
[14:53] <mvo> :)
[14:53] <mvo> cool
[14:53] <mvo> did I mention how excited I'm about the new stuff that is comming? its going to be awsome
[14:55] <kenvandine> mvo, the subprocess stuff was blocking the ui, is that a known problem or a bug i introduced :)
[14:55] <mvo> kenvandine: a bug you added, but it should be fixed in the bits that I commited
[14:55] <kenvandine> great
[14:56] <kenvandine> thx
[14:56] <mvo> kenvandine: so if you merge back from trunk it should be fine
[14:56] <kenvandine> awesome
[14:56] <mvo> kenvandine: there are some other minor modifcations, but only small stuff
[14:57] <mvo> kenvandine: a good name is needed, but I guess that is really hard "share" on its own may be confused with "share via a usb-key"
[14:57] <kenvandine> yeah, i was going to ask for feedback
[14:57] <kenvandine> same for the string that gets posted
[14:58]  * mvo nods
[14:58] <robert_ancell> seb128, can you look at the glib in bzr for maverick?  And feel free to add an endorsment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication :)
[15:00] <dobey> hey mvo
[15:01] <mvo> hey dobey
[15:02] <qense> aquarius: Getting Things GNOME is planning for Ubuntu One support and a website/server. I'd say: why not combine those two!
[15:02] <tedg> james_w: I heard that there was a way to run your caching LP API thingy with bughugger... do you know if there's someplace I can find that?
[15:02] <kenvandine> qense, yeah... awesome!
[15:03] <james_w> tedg: I hadn't heard that
[15:03] <qense> kenvandine, aquarius: I'm not sure whether GTG will want to use Ubuntu One as the primary data source -- Ubuntu isn't the only distribution in the world -- but a sync option for the website/server would be neat.
[15:03] <kenvandine> james_w, someone told me you did that with bughugger ?
[15:03] <tedg> james_w: Hmm, that's no good because I can't remember who told me that -- I was hoping you'd know :)
[15:03] <qense> or maybe Ubuntu One could use the code of a GTG website.
[15:03] <aquarius> qense, the thought has crossed my mind, yes :-)
[15:03] <kenvandine> tedg, it was me...
[15:03] <tedg> james_w: Blame kenvandine! ;)
[15:03] <kenvandine> but i heard it from someone else
[15:04] <dobey> mvo: so you weren't in the ubuntuone login UI session at uds, but it was mentioned that software center a gtk+ ui to do authentication against the ubuntu SSO service. from that session, we're planning on pulling out our dbus auth service into a more general project to authenticate against the ubuntu SSO (and potentially do extra things, like the oauth pieces), and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on what we should nam
[15:04] <kenvandine> spreading rumors i guess
[15:04] <dobey> mvo: since we'd like to get everything in Ubuntu that needs to auth to the SSO, to use the same UI :)
[15:04] <james_w> kenvandine: if I had then I would have demoed that, as it would have been clearer what I was doing
[15:05] <kenvandine> :)
[15:05] <james_w> I'd love for someone to port it though
[15:05] <mvo> dobey: cool, I have gtk code that shows a login dialog etc (no need for webkit/browser). but I would love to stop maintaining that and just use a library :)
[15:05] <james_w> it's not entirely easy right now to use it though, as it depends on a patch to twisted that isn't in a released version yet.
[15:06] <mvo> dobey: I don't much care about the name, python-ubuntu-sso ?
[15:07] <tedg> james_w: Ah, is the patch likely to be in Maverick?
[15:07] <james_w> yes
[15:07] <mvo> dobey: my stuff is in lp:~mvo/sofware-center/reviews in case you are interessted in the code
[15:07] <james_w> it's in trunk, so we can just ask jml to make a release targeting maverick
[15:07] <dobey> mvo: i don't know if we'll provide a library. but we'll provide a dbus service that does auth, registration, etc... so you can just call the login() method (like we currently have for u1), and it will do all the right things and asynchronously tell you when its done, so you can move on to actually reading the data :)
[15:08] <mvo> dobey: aha, cool
[15:09] <mvo> dobey: I do need the actual token from it, will that still be possible ?
[15:10] <dobey> mvo: yes. we need to do some refactoring to make the UX super awesome for all the different things that might use it
[15:11] <tedg> james_w: Cool, then build from branch will backport it for me ;)
[15:11] <james_w> \o/
[15:11] <dobey> mvo: currently we just always store in the keyring, so you get a signal and have to poke the keyring, but currently we only support doing the oauth token fetching on ubuntu one, and not other services that might use the SSO :)
[15:12] <mvo> dobey: ok, I will follow that with interest, one less thing for me to worry about
[15:13] <dobey> mvo: and i'd like to refactor it so the kubuntu people can easily have a qt dialog instead :)
[15:13] <dobey> mvo: but we definitely want a unified sso experience in ubuntu with this
[15:24] <didrocks> seb128: the new evolution will take some time to merge. I have made all the library/plugins triaging right now (debian changed a lot too), and I have now to convert all our patches away from bono (for LPI support) and from glade to gtkbuilder. There are quite a lot
[15:56] <mpt> mvo, rickspencer3, tremolux, call in 5 minutes?
[15:56] <rickspencer3> mpt, sounds good, yeah
[15:56] <tremolux> mpt: sounds good
[15:56] <mvo> mpt: conf line or mumble?
[15:58] <mpt> tremolux, do you have a Mumble account yet?
[15:59] <tremolux> mpt: unfortunately, no, sorry, new accounts are apparently still on hold
[15:59] <mpt> ok, conf line it is
[16:00] <rickspencer3> mpt, I'm calling in now
[16:03]  * mvo really does not like the music
[16:03] <mvo> high time we get mumble accounts for everybody
[16:03] <mpt_> doo do doot do, do do do do-doot do
[16:03] <tremolux> mvo: yes!  man, this song sticks in my head alllll day
[16:03] <mvo> lallalalalalaaa
[16:04] <tremolux> it's entirely too cheerful
[16:04] <rickspencer3> mpt_, aren
[16:04] <rickspencer3> t we waiting for you?
[16:04] <rickspencer3> am I on the right call?
[16:04] <mpt_> rickspencer3, I'm on your line. Whose line are you on? :-)
[16:05] <rickspencer3> lol
[16:05] <rickspencer3> I'm on your line
[16:05]  * rickspencer3 dials into own line
[16:05] <mpt_> I don't have a line, I'm not a manager
[16:05] <rickspencer3> I got it from the invite
[16:05] <mvo> bää
[16:05] <mvo> I'm one mpts line
[16:05] <mvo> the one on the invitation
[16:05] <mpt_> oh crikey
[16:05] <tremolux> I'm on the invite line as well
[16:05] <mvo> someone need to give me a the new code if I need to re-dial
[16:05] <pitti> mpt_: seems you are a manager now :)
[16:05] <mvo> fast promotion!
[16:05]  * tremolux wants me mumble
[16:05] <mpt_> That's ivanka's line
[16:06] <mpt_> sorry
[16:06] <mpt_> I forgot that was still there
[16:06] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:06] <rickspencer3> switch to mine:
[16:06] <rickspencer3> 2455480861
[16:06] <tremolux> k
[16:13] <kenvandine> whew... rebooting into maverick... hopefully will brb
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[16:20] <Nafai> good morning
[16:20] <kenvandine> woot
[16:20] <kenvandine> all seems good
[16:20] <kenvandine> didrocks, when do you think there will be maverick builds of unity?
[16:20] <kenvandine> hey Nafai
[16:21] <didrocks> kenvandine: eow, I think
[16:21] <didrocks> hey Nafai
[16:21] <Nafai> Hi kenvandine
[16:21] <kenvandine> cook
[16:21] <Nafai> I think I caught a flu or something over the weekend :(
[16:21] <kenvandine> cool even :)
[16:21] <kenvandine> ubuflu!
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, no need to port the small screen patches to new evo for now
[16:21] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so only LPI is needed?
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, the ui changed so they might be deprecated
[16:21] <didrocks> seb128: I was afraid by the bunch of work there :)
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, keep those somewhere in the source but not used
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, if they are not deprecated oem will need to provide us updated changes since the changes come from them there
[16:22] <didrocks> ok, I'll try to see how the lp-bono can be ported to new upstream
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, well as any other desktop component
[16:22] <didrocks> seb128: understood. Thanks! That makes my life much much much easier :)
[16:23] <seb128> use the standard lpi not the bonobo one
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, ;-)
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, welcome you are!
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: right, but upstream don't seem to use gtkbuilder for the menu, so a little bit more search is needed :)
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: heh
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, we have some other sources not using gtkbuilder, the lpi source might have an example too
[16:24] <seb128> didrocks, it's basically "get the menu widget and use the add function on it"
[16:24] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'll have a look at it, thanks (finishing e-d-s first)
[16:24] <seb128> didrocks, see gucharmap-lpint.patch in the lpi source
[16:25]  * didrocks notes that down
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items(à
[16:25] <seb128> ()
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items()
[16:25] <seb128> I meant
[16:25] <didrocks> sweet, should be easy to do
[16:25] <didrocks> thanks again :)
[16:26] <seb128> you're welcome
[16:26] <seb128> session restart, brb
[16:38] <nigelb> hey seb128, congrats on being tech lead this cycle :)
[16:39] <seb128> hey nigelb, thanks!
[16:40] <nigelb> Are there anymore apps on default cd that need apport hooks?
[16:40] <nigelb> I was thinking of offereing that for mentorship on the bug squad list for anyone who's interested
[16:43] <seb128> need to think about that but most likely yes
[16:46] <nigelb> if you can poke me with a list later when you have time, I'll see that its worked on :)
[16:48] <seb128> nigelb, ok thanks
[16:49] <nigelb> :)
[16:49] <seb128> nigelb, I guess you could work gedit and nautilus for example
[16:49] <seb128> getting changed gconf values
[16:50] <nigelb> ok :)
[16:50] <tseliot> pitti: I would like to request an SRU for bug #580763 (and fix 540171 too). It would fix a rather annoying video corruption bug. Any objections?
[16:50] <pitti> tseliot: can you please subscribe ubuntu-sru and ask there? I (or another SRU member) will followup by mail
[16:51] <pitti> tseliot: without having looked at it, fixing video bugs is always nice if it doesn't introduce a regression potential
[16:51] <rickspencer3> pitti, can you paste me the link for your wiki page on how to specify work items in blueprints?
[16:51] <rickspencer3> the syntax, I mean
[16:51] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[16:51] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^
[16:51] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:51] <tseliot> pitti: sure, it's what I planned on doing next. Thanks
[16:53] <Daviey> rickspencer3: Is there any way to predict how much cache bughugger needs to download for a given search?
[16:53] <Daviey> it's downloaded 20M so far.. :/
[16:53] <rickspencer3> Daviey, uh ...
[16:53] <rickspencer3> not so that I know, sorry
[16:53] <rickspencer3> tbh, I only use the json searches these days
[16:54] <Daviey> rickspencer3: yeah, i'm using a team sub'd package search, and it seems to be bigger than i expected :)
[16:54] <rickspencer3> yeah, those are BIG searches for sure
[16:54] <rickspencer3> lots of bug tasks
[16:54] <Daviey> oh well.. thanks :)
[16:54] <rickspencer3> I think a json search would serve you better
[16:54] <rickspencer3> which team is it?
[16:55] <Daviey> rickspencer3: ~ubuntu-server
[16:55] <rickspencer3> hmm
[16:55] <rickspencer3> is there not a json search set up for that already?
[16:55]  * rickspencer3 looks
[16:55] <Daviey> oh, there is!
[16:55] <rickspencer3> I am always one step ahead!
[16:56] <seb128> ;-)
[16:56] <Daviey> wow, that was "somewhat" faster
[16:56]  * Nafai curses the ubuflu
[16:57] <dobey> Nafai: i guess you didn't drink enough beer then :)
[16:58] <Nafai> heh.  nope, I don't drink :)
[16:58] <Daviey> thanks rickspencer3
[16:58] <mpt_> tremolux, remember to fill in foundations-m-software-center-roadmap
[16:58] <tremolux> mpt_: yep, thanks!
[17:01] <tremolux> mpt_: restored to gobby; I'll paste it to the whiteboard as well
[17:01] <mpt_> brilliant, thanks
[17:03] <didrocks> mvo: are you planning to do the zlib merge or can I steal it? The current one seems to not shipping a .pc file, which is a little bit… embarrassing :)
[17:03] <mvo> didrocks: you can have it
[17:04] <didrocks> mvo: yeah \o/
[17:19] <dieki> Hey, I had a quick question about the Software Center; At UDS it was stated that new applications will be added after release.
[17:19] <dieki> Does this include new versions of existing applications?
[17:20] <dieki> For instance, during the time between the release of Karmic and the release of Lucid, Firefox 3.6 was released, but there was no really easy way to get it.
[17:20] <dieki> Will new major versions be easily upgradable through the software center?
[17:21] <dobey> dieki: i suppose if Mozilla puts firefox packages in this new thing, or it gets into backports, yes. but i think the UDS discussion was about people writing new apps and getting them released to users of already released ubuntu
[17:22] <dieki> Okay.
[17:22] <dobey> dieki: in general, i don't think new major versions will be pushed via this new mechanism as a means for upgrading the distro
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> dieki - the process is not applicable for firefox anyway, as stable releases will be getting new upstream versions
[17:23] <dobey> but PPAs are a bit complex to require users to use
[17:23] <dieki> chriscoulson: Okay.
[17:23] <dobey> chrisccoulson: i think he was more asking about karmic getting 3.6 for example
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> karmic will be getting 3.6
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> as will hardy and jaunty
[17:24] <dieki> How so? Backports?
[17:24] <dobey> well yeah, firefox is special
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> dieki, no, via security
[17:24] <dobey> because it's usually a drastic change for security fixes, so they can't just be backported to 3.5 etc... easily
[17:24] <dieki> I see.
[17:24] <dieki> What about other applications?
[17:25] <dieki> Will old releases be getting, say, Thunderbird 3.0?
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> dieki, eventually, yes
[17:26] <dieki> So... did a major policy change occur?
[17:26] <dobey> dieki: i think you're looking at this the wrong way. old releases will be getting security updates in the same way they always have been, if they are supported as such for getting them
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> i think thats the plan for TB anyway
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> dieki, for mozilla, yes
[17:27] <dieki> Oh, okay. This doesn't affect other applications, say GIMP, then?
[17:27] <dobey> dieki: this new thing from UDS is about allowing "opportunistic developers" and such, easier methods for shipping software to ubuntu users
[17:27] <chrisccoulson> dieki, see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
[17:27] <dobey> dieki: it doesn't affect anything already in ubuntu
[17:27] <dieki> Okay, I get it. Thanks.
[17:28] <dieki> But will there be any method to upgrade all the other applications? In Maverick, that is.
[17:29] <dieki> My understanding was that that couldn't be done because it would require the upgrades of system components, which would break other stuff. But adding new apps would do that too.
[17:30] <dobey> dieki: if your question is 'how do i always run bleeding edge' i think the answer is 'always run bleeding edge' :)
[17:31] <dieki> :)
[17:31] <dieki> I always run bleeding edge anyway.
[17:31] <dobey> dieki: new gnome/gimp/etc... will not get pushed to older versions of ubuntu
[17:31] <dieki> Okay.
[17:32] <dobey> would sort of defeat the purpose of having an LTS and such at that point :)
[17:33] <dieki> Yeah. But then what do we do with the people who want the newest version of OpenOffice\GIMP\Chrome\Whatever, and Ubuntu doesn't have it in it's repos?
[17:33] <dieki> Is that what PPAs are supposed to be for?
[17:34] <dobey> the answer is "build it yourself, subscribe to a PPA that has it, or run the devel ubuntu"
[17:35] <dobey> or "install via some other means, because you're likely to anyway"
[17:35] <dobey> for example the firefox install script they give you from getfirefox.com, etc...
[17:35] <dieki> Well, I suppose that is the only way to do it and keep the system stable.
[17:35] <dobey> if you care about keeping the system stable, you're not running the "latest" of those anyway
[17:36] <dieki> True.
[17:36] <dobey> and you're probably only running LTS releases
[17:37] <dieki> In which case the situation gets worse, though, since you have to wait two years to get a modern version of OpenOffice.
[17:37] <dieki> And the stable versions released inbetween were probably sstable.
[17:37] <dieki> *stable
[17:38] <dobey> if you care that much about openoffice, it's probably because you're doing a lot with it, and your corporate IT support infrastructure probably has some plan for you to get it
[17:38] <dobey> or you don't care about stability as much as you claim, and you're not going to stick on LTS for 2 years :)
[17:38] <vish> seb128: hi.. for Maverick , could you update lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release ? fixes a few minor problems/bugs
[17:39] <dieki> I'm thinking more about the non-techie users I'm setting up systems for.
[17:39] <dieki> What I have seen, and this may not at all be typical, is that the user's friend will say "Hey, have you checked out the latest version of <insert app name here>? It's totally cool"
[17:40] <dieki> And then the user says "No, I haven't, let me run the update manager and get that"
[17:40] <dieki> And then... they can't.
[17:40] <dieki> But then this may not be a normal scenario, I haven't done any real studies on it.
[17:43] <dieki> And the only applications I've seen this for were the Mozilla ones, which will now be updated to stable releases. :)
[17:46] <dobey> well
[17:46] <dobey> that's a harder problem to solve
[17:46] <dobey> because in windows you don't have update manager and standard distribution channels, you have random exe or msi downloads
[17:47] <dieki> Yeah. They took the easy way out. :)
[17:47] <dobey> the right solution is getting <randomapp> that's latest and cool to provide packages for ubuntu
[17:47] <dobey> well, apple took the easy way out
[17:47] <dobey> they just control everything that you can install on the ipad/ipod/iphone :)
[17:48] <dieki> But even if they do, won't <randomapp>'s packages not be included until the next release?
[17:48] <dieki> :D I don't see how that makes it much easier, but I'm not too familiar with how their system works.
[17:49] <dobey> dieki: they won't necessarily be included at all
[17:49] <dobey> dieki: but that's what PPAs and apt repos are for
[17:49] <dieki> Even if <randomapp> was already in?
[17:49] <dobey> and this is how we delivered ubuntu one to jaunty users for example
[17:50] <dobey> ubuntu one is in ubuntu
[17:50] <dobey> but we also provide some PPAs for nightlies or newer stable builds for karmic for example
[17:50] <dieki> Yeah.
[17:51] <dobey> they'll be a bit better organized soon, but it's the only way to do what you're suggesting
[17:51] <dobey> well, only good way
[17:51] <dobey> we could also put .deb files on random web servers and have people just install them instead
[17:52] <sash_> nice idea :)
[17:52] <dieki> My thought was that new stable versions might be included in the software center next to the old stable version. That way, if the user wants the new stable version, the can install it. (Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed)
[17:53] <sash_> "Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed" <- thats not that easy
[17:53] <dobey> dieki: PPAs show up in the software center
[17:54] <dobey> sash_: it is that easy. just put them in a PPA. problem is new dependencies might end up removing a lot of other things the user cares about :)
[17:55] <dieki> sash_: How hard is it? I had thought that dependencies could specify packages to be removed.
[17:56] <sash_> but what if appA from ppa depends on libXY0-1.1 and appB from standard-repos depends on libXY0-1.08
[17:56] <sash_> and both libs cannot be installed at the same time?
[17:57] <dieki> Hm. That is a problem. But how does the new system of adding applications after release get around that?
[17:57] <dieki> Might one of the new applications depend on libXY0-1.1?
[17:57] <dieki> Or will apps like that not be allowed?
[17:58] <sash_> in a stable release, that should not happen. and even doesnt afaik ;)
[17:58] <dobey> dieki: the new system doesn't get around it. it's not a way to subvert the existing system, it's a way to deploy new apps to it
[17:59] <sash_> dieki: in a stable-releases, programs have no upgrades, except safety
[17:59] <dobey> dieki: the system you're deploying to is the sdk, you need to work with what's in ubuntu, not replace it
[17:59] <dieki> Okay. Wow. This is far more complicated than I could have imagined.
[17:59] <dieki> :)
[17:59] <dobey> no, it's really rather simple
[17:59] <dobey> you're just trying to make it complicated :)
[18:00] <dieki> :)
[18:00] <dieki> I mean, what I'm trying to do is complicated. :)
[18:00] <dieki> I wonder how Apple does it.
[18:00] <dobey> you don't ship new windows applications to users by sending them an upgrade disc :)
[18:00] <dobey> apple doesn't do it
[18:01] <dieki> iPhone apps don't get major upgrades?
[18:01] <dobey> apple controls what is shipped in their OS
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: "major upgrade" is a rather inconsequential view for iphone
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: you can't replace the kernel on iphone to make your app upgrade work, no :)
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: you get to use the APIs provided by the system and nothing else
[18:03] <dieki> Ohh... because they control everything, they can pretend libXY-1.1 doesn't exist.
[18:03] <dieki> Because it doesn't.
[18:04] <dieki> Well, I thank you for explaining this all to me.
[18:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, here'
[18:19] <rickspencer3> s a draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess
[18:19]  * rickspencer3 leaves for gym
[18:33] <pitti> good night everyone!
[18:33] <rickspencer3> 'night pitti
[18:34] <didrocks> good night pitti
[18:35] <seb128> re
[18:35] <seb128> 'night pitti
[18:35] <seb128> vish, it's early for maverick, I've not upgraded yet, will have to wait a bit
[18:35] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[18:36] <vish> seb128: np , ok.. mainly wanted to get it done for an SRU for Lucid of for  10.04.1 atleast
[18:37] <vish> s/of/or
[18:37] <seb128> vish, doing sru is easier there
[18:38] <seb128> get the change uploaded as a sru to lucid-proposed then get it copying to maverick automatically from there
[18:38] <vish> oh..
[18:38] <seb128> there is no point to do 2 uploads
[18:39] <vish> seb128: hmm, how do i get it uploaded to lucid-proposed? [  tried to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and thought +1 and then sru was the way]
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> bah, gnome-screensaver really doesn't work at all in kvm
[18:40] <seb128> vish, do what is written on this wiki but don't bother about +1
[18:40] <vish> seb128: neat thanks..
[18:40] <seb128> in practice we often do upload as a sru and copy to +1 on soyuz
[18:40] <seb128> the wikipage should perhaps get updated
[18:56] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication
[19:14] <ccheney> pitti: i noticed the ddebs openoffice.org packages aren't available for amd64, is there a way to fix that, or is someone else in charge of ddebs now?
[19:31] <Sarvatt> anyone interested in a *massive* speedup of xchat's scrollback reloading speed? It dropped the load time from close to a minute at 100% cpu usage down to ~4 seconds here with 32 channels worth on this atom CPU. http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xchat_2.8.6-4ubuntu6.debdiff
[19:34] <Sarvatt> it's just a backport of an upstream commit and will probably be a few more years until there's another x-chat release with it :D
[19:42] <Sarvatt> things building with dh_gconf in maverick currently are pulling in a unfulfillable gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2) dependency when we have 2.28.1-0ubuntu1, should I file a bug against debhelper about it?
[19:42] <Sarvatt> i've got maximus xchat-common mutter-common simple-scan tomboy update-notifier and update-notifier-common built in maverick all uninstallable because of it
[19:43] <kklimonda> why not upgrade gconf to the new unstable version?
[19:46] <Sarvatt> thats why I was asking if I should file a bug against debhelper or just wait for gconf to be updated, i dont think we'd ever have 2.28.1-2 anyway
[19:47] <Sarvatt> the debhelper changelog for maverick mentioned lowering the requirement in dh_gconf to fix it but it still has addsubstvar($package, "misc:Depends", "gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2)") unless $gconf_dep;
[19:51] <seb128> Sarvatt, I will resync gconf2
[19:52] <Sarvatt> \o/ thanks seb128
[21:03] <didrocks> well, evolution 2.30 is crashy there :/ will have a look tomorrow
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[21:05] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> how are you doing?
[21:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, evolution stack took a long time to update, apart from that, I'm fine, thanks :) You?
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> i'm trying to make gnome-screensaver work in kvm right now
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> looking forward to start on maverick, but that could be a long time away ;)
[21:06] <didrocks> is there really a use case for gnome-screensaver in kvm? :)
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i'm not sure. currently it crashes when you try and lock the screen
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> but it could crash outside of kvm if the X extensions required for fading aren't there
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> (eg, on LTSP)
[21:07] <didrocks> urgh
[21:08] <didrocks> grrr, I can't get my emails now as evo is crashing when clicking on any email
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's not good
[21:10] <didrocks> clearly not :/
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver works in kvm now though ;)
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> that doesn't help with your e-mails though
[21:12] <didrocks> not at all, to be honest ;)
[21:12] <didrocks> it's not a crash, it's a hang, hence the fact it's not easy to debug
[21:38]  * ccheney back from doctor, that took entirely too long, he prescribed medicine my insurance wouldn't cover so had to go back and have him rewrite it :-\
[22:05] <lowje> Hi
[22:14] <rickspencer3> hi lowje
[23:03] <Sarvatt> Setting up gconf2 (2.28.1-3ubuntu1) ...
[23:03] <Sarvatt> WARNING: Failed to parse default value `[????????? ???????;gnome-appearance-properties.desktop,????????? ???????????? ???????????;gnome-default-applications.desktop,?????????? ??????????;system-config-printer.desktop] ' for schema (/schemas/apps/control-center/cc_actions_list)
[23:03] <Sarvatt> hmm
[23:18] <lowje> I found a bug about gnome-panel on the LiveCD of Lucid but according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel, "Desktop panel for GNOME does not use Launchpad for bug tracking". Where am I supposed to report?
[23:28] <lowje> noone knows? :s
[23:39] <pochu> lowje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel
[23:49] <lowje> thanks pochu