[00:37] <Andre_Gondim> hi, is it possible to change the mail list behaver? when someone reply, that reply sents mail list, not to who sent the mail to list
[00:39] <thumper> Andre_Gondim: normally it is an option in your email client
[00:40] <Andre_Gondim> well, in mailman I have a option to change this, it will be very helpful if there is this option in launchpad mail list
[00:41] <thumper> I don't think we have that option in Launchpad
[00:42] <Andre_Gondim> no, we don't have, I want to know how to file a bug, to do this
[00:44] <mwhudson> Andre_Gondim: tell all your users to use thunderbird 3, that behaves sensibly with the headers launchpad sends :)
[00:44] <mwhudson> if you mean reply-to munging, people get very excited about that
[00:46] <Andre_Gondim> mwhudson, I think the mail list needs to work in every situation. It's very nice the mail list works ok at thunderbird, but if I use gmail, I always needs to do reply to all
[00:47] <mwhudson> Andre_Gondim: in general launchpad can only influence what the clients do, not control it
[00:47] <mwhudson> Andre_Gondim: i'm not sure what you are actually asking for, a magical "make it work" wand-wave isn't realistic
[00:48] <Andre_Gondim> mwhudson, I just want when I reply in mail list, just sent do mail list, not to the sender
[00:49] <mwhudson> Andre_Gondim: you can't have that
[00:49] <mwhudson> without munging reply-to
[00:49] <mwhudson> which other people get very upset about
[00:49] <ali1234> why would you even want that? you will lose unsubscribed people on the CC list
[00:51] <Andre_Gondim> if someone just click on reply, just the sender will receive this mail, I want to everyone in mail list receive this mail
[00:51] <ali1234> so click on "reply to all" problem solved
[00:51] <Andre_Gondim> but this is not a solution is a workaround
[00:52] <mwhudson> Andre_Gondim: what, concretely, do you want launchpad to change?
[00:52] <mwhudson> this has been a problem with email, for oh, at least two decades
[00:52] <mwhudson> probably much longer
[00:53] <Andre_Gondim> mwhudson, I just want that behaver, like any mail list, when I click to reply, I reply to mail list only, not to sender
[00:53]  * mwhudson stops trying 
[00:54] <Andre_Gondim> maybe you don't get my point, forgets, I give up
[00:54] <spiv> Andre_Gondim: "like any mail list" is far from true
[00:55] <ali1234> no mailing list that i am aware of works like that
[00:55] <spiv> Andre_Gondim: The Reply-to munging you want makes many people at least as unhappy as not munging.
[00:55] <spiv> Andre_Gondim: it's sadly impossible to make everyone perfectly happy
[00:55] <ali1234> including all the kernel lists
[00:55] <Andre_Gondim> spiv, at mailman I have a option to do this, and all my users in mail list just needs to reply,
[00:58] <ali1234> it's kind of a shame that nntp lost out to forums and mailing lists
[00:58] <ali1234> i know there's gmane but that's not really the same as having everyone use nntp by default
[00:58] <mwhudson> yeah
[00:58] <mwhudson> clearly launchpad needs newsgroups!
[00:59] <spiv> Nah, clearly everyone should just use twitter ;)
[00:59]  * spm fires up the hell roasting fires for mwhudson to ... sauna in
[06:44] <gour> morning
[06:45] <gour> i'm responsible for a project at LP which got a bit neglected and found out there are some questions asked in 'Answers' section, which are not appropriate for the forum. what is appropriate action to do? Reject question 8which already received answers) or is it possible to delete it via 'reject' ?
[07:22] <cleary> akheron: thanks for the reply re my ppa issue - I did sign the package, but ended up doing it with a personal, non-launchpad key. According to the launchpad doco, a key should have been auto generated for me on ppa setup, but I cannot see it anywhere - can you point me in the right direction?
[07:25] <wgrant> cleary: The auto-generated key is used to sign the repository, and the private part is possessed only by Launchpad. You sign uploaded packages with an independent personal key.
[07:25] <cleary> wgrant: ok, that's what I did
[07:26] <gour> ok, i rejected question(s) and they are not listed any longer. :-)
[07:26] <cleary> dput of the source package was succesful, but I did not receive any notification afterwards
[07:26] <gour> any intention to provide some wiki for the LP projects in the future?
[07:26] <cleary> wgrant: do I have to make launchpad aware of my personal public key?
[07:26] <gour> (or one should use blueprints etc.)
[07:27] <wgrant> cleary: Yes. Register it at https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editpgpkeys
[07:27] <wgrant> Then upload again.
[07:28] <lifeless> it would be nice for lp to autodiscover
[07:28] <lifeless> and do an email-signing dance if someone uses a key it doesn't know about
[07:28] <spm> lifeless: I believe that would be impossible, surely? ;-)
[07:28] <wgrant> lifeless: Huh?
[07:28] <lifeless> spm: why? If its in the global keyring
[07:28] <wgrant> Email-signing dance?
[07:29] <cleary> wgrant: thanks - the rest of the steps look to be nicely laid out. I should be right from here :)
[07:29] <lifeless> wgrant: encrypted mail to user; signed email back to verify.
[07:29] <wgrant> lifeless: Which user?
[07:29] <wgrant> We have a key.
[07:29] <spm> lifeless: you're not caught up on quotes then? 'Constructive trolling' no further comment.
[07:29] <wgrant> But we don't know if the email addresses are good.
[07:29] <lifeless> wgrant: the one matching their email address
[07:29] <wgrant> lifeless: Yay spam?
[07:29] <lifeless> wgrant: how so?
[07:30]  * wgrant uploads 7000 packages with a key involving lifeless' email addresses.
[07:30] <wgrant> Goodbye inbox :)
[07:30] <spm> wgrant: you *have* missed your calling. that sort of evil? you should be in sysadmin.
[07:30] <lifeless> wgrant: no user controllable content, so at most unwanted email, not spam or uce
[07:31] <wgrant> lifeless: Oh, I'm sure any solution like this would attach the changes file.
[07:31] <wgrant> Probably with Content-Disposition: inline, too.
[07:31] <lifeless> wgrant: no way, different use cases.
[07:31] <lifeless> wgrant: and it would enable spam. So no.
[07:32] <wgrant> lifeless: You mean that LP should constantly poke the keyserver looking for matching keys as they show up?
[07:32] <wgrant> Separately from the upload processor?
[07:32] <wgrant> Not a bad idea, perhaps.
[07:32] <lifeless> wgrant: for totally unknown keys, yes.
[07:32] <lifeless> rather than EBLOWUP
[07:33] <wgrant> Somewhat difficult, particularly given that this is SKS, and doesn't solve the common issue where the key isn't on the keyserver.
[07:33] <lifeless> if you got an error saying 'key X was used to sign a package; please verify it by decrypting the attached content and followiong the instructions'
[07:33] <wgrant> Better solution is to make SFTP poppy a reality, and then make it suck less.
[07:33] <lifeless> wgrant: well, StevenK is on that
[07:33] <wgrant> I know.
[09:13] <gour1> any chance we'll have bug #240067 implemented at some time? it's strong 'cons' for putting our project(s) at LP :-(
[09:14] <spiv> At some time?  Yes.
[09:14] <gour1> it is the main reason that we abandoded idea to use fossil-csm (which even has poor non-standard wiki)
[09:14] <spiv> Soon?  Probably not, IIRC it's not yet on the roadmap.
[09:14] <spiv> https://dev.launchpad.net/RoadMap
[09:15] <gour1> yeah, i'm aware of it...it means, considering how things are progressing, it's better to forget about it and use some other hosting or do our own
[09:16] <gour1> it's strange how LP is missing it...so many nice stuff and one (major) blunder
[09:20] <magcius> I forget
[09:20] <magcius> What does Launchpad have for patch support?
[09:20] <gour1> since hg does not play nicely with fast-import, it leaves us with git (& github)  which i really do not like :-/
[09:21] <magcius> gour1: I use git and github for code hosting, and Launchpad for everything else
[09:21] <wgrant> magcius: Patch support?
[09:21] <wgrant> What do you mean?
[09:21] <wgrant> Merge proposals?
[09:21] <magcius> wgrant: yeah, code review not tied to bzr
[09:22] <gour> magcius: heh, i'd like integrated solution...otherwise, better to have everything on one's own site
[09:22] <magcius> gour: to me, when you have an integrated solution, there's always some parts that can be done better
[09:23] <gour> magcius: true, but it's less to admin
[09:23] <wgrant> Well. Fix the parts that can be done better, so everyone benefits?
[09:24] <wgrant> That seems like the optimal solution.
[09:24] <wgrant> A good, integrated solution.
[09:24] <magcius> wgrant: easier said than done
[09:24] <wgrant> Indeed.
[09:24] <magcius> if we get a wiki, there's going to be a hell of a wiki format war
[09:25] <magcius> "MoinMoin!" "ReST!" "MediaWiki!" "DokuWiki!" "WikiCreole!"
[09:26] <wgrant> All of the above.
[09:26] <magcius> How? Some use the same syntax to mean two completely different things
[09:26] <gour> considering it's python, having reST under bzr sounds good...otoh, any wiki is better than no wiki
 FTW?
[09:28] <magcius> wgrant: ahahaha
[09:28] <wgrant> Yes, messy.
[09:28] <wgrant> But.
[09:28] <magcius> wgrant: if you do that some guy is going to come along and say "Confluence needs love too!"
[09:29] <magcius> wgrant: and some asshole is going to come around and say "if you support all wiki formats natively why not support all VCSs!"
[09:32] <jml> mediawiki.
[09:37] <lifeless> magcius: in which case, atlassian can rewrite confluences parser + renderer in python and submit a patch to use it
[09:37] <lifeless> jml: ping; reminding you to rename the testtools milestone and do other release stuff
[09:38] <magcius> lifeless: I was thinking more of the case of "we want to convert our Confluence wiki to Launchpad!"
[09:38] <jml> lifeless: thanks, but you don't need to remind me.
[09:38] <lifeless> magcius: well, that should be easier :)
[09:38] <lifeless> jml: ok, I couldn't tell if I did or didn't.
[09:38] <magcius> Why aren't things like bugs and answers and stuff stored in a bzr branch anyway?
[09:39] <lifeless> jml: I was looking at the testtools bugs with thumper earlier today and it reminded me.
[09:39] <lifeless> magcius: VCS's with their single timeline and no delete model are a bad fit for such data
[09:40] <magcius> lifeless: "their"? That's not "VCS"'s fault, that's bzr's fault
[09:41] <lifeless> magcius: sorry, I wasn't including RCS or CVS as VCS's in this day and age.
[09:41] <magcius> lifeless: what do you mean by "single timeline" and "no delete model"?
[09:41] <thumper> gour: I'm working on a wiki in my spare time (like now)
[09:42] <magcius> lifeless: does "single timeline" mean there's no branching, flat, just one commit after another?
[09:42] <magcius> thumper: yay!
[09:42] <lifeless> magcius: if you have a bug, and someone attaches a .iso, you might want to delete it.
[09:42] <magcius> lifeless: ah
[09:42] <magcius> lifeless: delete the file and commit?
[09:42] <lifeless> magcius: but without rebasing (which is bad for trunk branches), you can't delete data from a VCS
[09:42] <lifeless> doesn't delete the history
[09:42] <magcius> lifeless: that's a bad thing?
[09:42] <lifeless> still have to copy 720MB around every time you branch
[09:43] <lifeless> as for single timeline
[09:43] <lifeless> I mean that you don't want to have to merge everytime someone edits a different bug from a different machine
[09:44] <magcius> ah
[09:44] <lifeless> bug trackers are generally full of unrelated items
[09:45] <lifeless> or related only by their id
[09:45] <lifeless> but commits in a modern VCS are across all items, so you have a mismatch in the timeline - its per branch, not per item
[10:16] <Peng_> Nonetheless, there are various bug tracking tools that store the data in your VCS, such as Bugs Everywhere.
[11:35] <gour> thumper: you're the only one working on it?
[11:36] <gour> Peng_: BugsEverywhere is not in very rapid dev
[11:49] <Peng_> It was just an example, and it's the most-developed one I know of.
[11:50] <gour> ahh...i was testing fossil...it is nice, but lack of standard wiki kills it badly...too bad LP lacks wiki as well
[12:57] <EgYPaRaDoX> I am inquiring if there is the possibility to become an Ubuntu member through translating rather than developing?
[12:58] <soren> EgYPaRaDoX: This is not really the right channel, but yes. Any and all contributions to Ubuntu count.
[12:58] <soren> EgYPaRaDoX: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[12:59] <EgYPaRaDoX> sorn: I couldn't find the right channel actually
[12:59] <EgYPaRaDoX> soren*
[12:59] <persia> That's because there isn't a right channel
[12:59] <persia> But any of the #ubuntu-* channels are probably a better place to ask in general.
[12:59] <soren> Yeah. I wouldn't know where to send you :)
[12:59] <james_w> #ubuntu-community-team would be best
[12:59] <persia> Would it?
[12:59] <soren> Is there a channel for translations?
[13:00] <persia> #ubuntu-translators
[13:00] <james_w> #ubuntu-translators IIRC
[13:00] <soren> Then that one :98
[13:00] <soren> Er..
[13:00] <soren> s/98/)/
[13:00] <EgYPaRaDoX> james_w: I appreciate your help
[13:27] <EgYPaRaDoX> I need to ask another question, is it compulsory to register an OpenPGP key in order to become a member?
[13:32] <nigelb> jml: I have the notes from the UDD session. want me me to put it up on gobby?
[13:32] <jml> nigelb, that'd be great, thanks!
[13:32] <nigelb> yaay for remote!
[13:33] <jml> nigelb, yay indeed.
[13:33] <nigelb> check now
[13:34] <fta> uh?? https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1743263
[13:35] <nigelb> jml: on gobby now :)
[13:35] <jml> nigelb, ta
[13:36] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, to become a member of Ubuntu, yes.
[13:36] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, but you might not need to become a member
[13:36] <jml> fta, I have no idea what to make of that. Perhaps bigjools or noodles775 might.
[13:37]  * noodles775 is looking at the upload log, but it doesn't log anything indicating why it failed to upload.
[13:37] <nigelb> jml: yes you need pgp key - sigh code of conduct
[13:37] <nigelb> *sign
[13:37] <fta> jml, i guess i can just retry but i don't understand what went wrong with it
[13:37] <jml> fta, me neither
[13:38] <wgrant> I am also confused.
[13:38] <jml> nigelb, yeah, but not everyone in the world needs to sign the code of conduct.
[13:38] <jml> wgrant, o hai
[13:38] <wgrant> jml: You do need to to become an Ubuntu Member, though.
[13:38] <jml> right.
[13:38]  * nigelb assumed Ubuntu Member
[13:38] <jml> that's what I said
[13:38] <jml> "to become a member of Ubuntu, yes.  but you might not need to become a member."
[13:39] <noodles775> fta: pls let us know if it fails to upload again - there has been some changes to that code recently (and will be more too).
[13:39] <wgrant> Oh, right, sorry. Still a little jetlagged.
[13:39] <jml> wgrant, np. :)
[13:40] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: I am talking about the use of OpenPGP, some countries have strict laws.
[13:40] <fta> noodles775, yesterday, i had another like this one, it was jaunty/amd64. a retry worked.
[13:40] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, you can use GnuPG, if that helps.
[13:41] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, but if you want to become an Ubuntu Member, you have to sign the code of conduct. To do that, you need a GPG key on Launchpad.
[13:41] <wgrant> In countries outlawing outlawing strong encryption, you would probably be unable to legally use Launchpad at all, given that it is served over reasonably strong SSL.
[13:41] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: OK.
[13:43] <EgYPaRaDoX> wgrant: So I shouldnt be using launchpad?
[13:44] <wgrant> EgYPaRaDoX: It depends completely on the laws that apply in your current jurisdiction.
[13:45] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, also, do you really want to be taking legal advice from a bunch of strangers on the Internet?
[13:45] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: Nope.
[13:45] <wgrant> That too.
[13:45] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: I totally agree.
[13:48] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: I am just trying to be a member, I believe thats all the help I could get from here.
[13:49] <jml> EgYPaRaDoX, cool. If you need any more help, let me know.
[13:49] <EgYPaRaDoX> jml: OK.
[14:24] <EgyParadox> jml: There is one thing also, I don't know where specifically I could get help. In other words , If I have some issue , I don't know which channel to join , canonical related?, launchpad related?, ubuntu related?
[14:24] <jml> EgyParadox, it depends on what the issue is.
[14:24] <jml> EgyParadox, if it's about using Launchpad, you are in the right place.
[14:24] <jml> EgyParadox, if it's about Ubuntu development, then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ is your best starting point
[14:26] <EgyParadox> jml: The problem is that I don't know who is responsible for what
[14:27] <jml> EgyParadox, hmm.
[14:27] <jml> EgyParadox, there's a lot of "who" and a lot of "what" – I'm not sure I'd be able to give a detailed breakdown of everything related to Ubuntu, Launchpad and/or Canonical
[14:32] <EgyParadox> jml: I understand that the involvement of the the three together causes the situation to be bit complicated. If so , then I will ask anybody who can guide me for what I want.
[14:33] <jml> EgyParadox, do you want something in particular right now?
[14:33] <jml> EgyParadox, in general, if you ask in the wrong place, people will happily point you to the right one.
[14:34] <EgyParadox> jml: Nope, is there a site where I can find information about the role of each of canonical, ubuntu , and launchpad?
[14:35] <jml> EgyParadox, other than wiki.ubuntu.com or canonical.com, not really...
[14:35] <jml> EgyParadox, in a nutshell....
[14:35] <jml> EgyParadox, Ubuntu is a Linux distribution made by a whole bunch of people and partly funded by a commercial company called Canonical.
[14:36] <jml> EgyParadox, To handle bugs, translations and pretty much anything related to developer collaboration, Ubuntu uses a tool called Launchpad
[14:36] <jml> EgyParadox, which was developed by Canonical and is still largely funded by them.
[14:37] <jml> EgyParadox, a whole bunch of free software projects and commercial projects also use Launchpad to handle bugs, translations and pretty much anything related to developer collaboration.
[14:37] <jml> EgyParadox, these projects are sometimes related to Ubuntu, sometimes not.
[14:37] <jml> EgyParadox, does that help?
[14:38] <EgyParadox> jml: Yes.
[14:41] <EgyParadox> jml: Is there a diagram showing how the three are related?, If there isn
[14:41] <EgyParadox> If there isn't, is it possible to create one , since before I was totally confused.
[14:43] <EgyParadox> jml: I am talking for other people to know.
[16:19] <shtylman> when trying to upload to my ppa I get rejected with: The source mongodb - 1:1.5.2~acr1 is already accepted in ubuntu/hardy and you cannot upload the same version within the same distribution. You have to modify the source version and re-upload.
[16:19] <shtylman> my ppa does not have anything else in it
[16:20] <shtylman> and that package doesn't exist in hardy... so I am confused...
[16:20] <bigjools> have you uploaded it before?
[16:20] <shtylman> for lucid.. yes... but I have since deleted it
[16:20] <shtylman> cause I had something wrong with it
[16:21] <bigjools> you can't upload the same version again even if you delete it
[16:21] <shtylman> ... really?
[16:21] <bigjools> the error's a bit misleading about hardy
[16:21] <bigjools> yeah - apt clients don't like seeing the same file again with different contents
[16:21] <shtylman> oh... I see
[16:21] <shtylman> I will make a note to remember that :)
[16:21] <shtylman> a followup question tho
[16:21] <shtylman> lets say I upload this for hardy
[16:21] <bigjools> it's in the FAQ :)
[16:22] <shtylman> can I use the copy feature to make it work for lucid as well?
[16:22] <shtylman> last time I uploaded for lucid and tried to copy.. it only let me copy binary
[16:22] <bigjools> yep - but only if you copy with binaries
[16:22] <shtylman> why is that?
[16:22] <shtylman> doesn't it need to be rebuilt?
[16:22] <bigjools> you can't rebuild the same version in a new series in a pool-based repo
[16:23] <shtylman> and what if it does need to be rebuilt?
[16:23] <bigjools> you'd end up with the same version with different contents trying to get published
[16:23] <bigjools> if you need a rebuild
[16:23] <bigjools> then you need to upload a different version to lucid
[16:23] <shtylman> ahh
[16:23] <shtylman> noted
[16:23] <bigjools> most people do something like ~series on the version
[16:23] <shtylman> but that means keeping different changelog files around..
[16:24] <bigjools> the bzr ppa is a good example
[16:24] <wgrant> The error message is not, in fact, misleading. https://edge.launchpad.net/~shtylman/+archive/acr/+packages?field.name_filter=mongodb&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter= shows that it was uploaded to Hardy then very quickly deleted 18ish hours ago.
[16:24] <bigjools> 'fraid so
[16:24] <bigjools> heh
[16:24] <wgrant> The misleading one is the file with different contents message.
[16:25] <bigjools> I should stop trusting people :)
[16:39] <Kalidarn> if i delete a ppa will it destroy my launchpad account?
[16:39] <shtylman> no
[16:39] <Kalidarn> oh okay
[16:39] <Kalidarn> so i can make a new ppa under the launchpad account and provide new packages
[16:40] <shtylman> right
[16:41] <Kalidarn> it's not like its had any packages in it for over 70 months
[16:42] <Kalidarn> i mean days
[16:42] <Kalidarn> and even then it wasn't public
[21:16] <falktx> hi
[21:17] <falktx> i need some help
[21:17] <falktx> it's the 2nd time i tried to compile a package in my ppa
[21:17] <falktx> the packages actually compiles but the upload fails
[21:17] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+build/1745010
[21:17] <falktx> very weird error
[21:17] <falktx> please help
[21:23] <tsimpson> falktx: you have a typo in your debian/control, in the Package: vst-plugin-vopm
[21:23] <tsimpson> "DDescription: VST Plugin Pack (dummy)"
[21:23] <falktx> oh
[21:24] <falktx> many thanks!
[21:24] <falktx> how "debuild -S -sa" didn't detect that?
[21:24] <falktx> it usually complains about everything...
[21:25] <tsimpson> not sure
[22:18] <tremolux> heya LP folks, if I've mistakenly nominated a bug for release, is there a way that I can revert that?
[22:21] <beuno> tremolux, unfortunetely, no
[22:21] <tremolux> beuno: ah well
[22:22] <tremolux> beuno: thx  :)
[22:26] <tremolux> beuno: does it make sense to mark the bug Invalid and just remake it?
[22:29] <beuno> tremolux, I don't think so
[22:29] <beuno> you can reject the proposal
[22:32] <tremolux> beuno: hmm, not sure I need to...I actually want to add the series but I think I just don't have the permissions to?
[22:32] <tremolux> beuno: got a sec?  I can show you
[22:33] <beuno> tremolux, is this an ubuntu bug?
[22:33] <tremolux> beuno: yes, bug 582529
[22:33] <beuno> right, so only certain people can accept/reject the nominations
[22:34] <tremolux> beuno: yeah, I need it to look like bug 572103
[22:34] <tremolux> beuno: but I don't have perms to do that, correct?
[22:35] <beuno> tremolux, correct
[22:35] <tremolux> beuno: so, is it in fact correct for me to have nominated it after all?
[22:35] <beuno> you need to talk to pitti
[22:35] <beuno> well, I don't know what the current Ubuntu bug rules are
[22:36] <tremolux> beuno: yep, I'll check with pitti tomorrow
[22:36] <tremolux> beuno: thanks for your help!  it's much appreciated  :)
[22:36] <beuno> tremolux, youz welcome