[00:17] <atrus> yofel: hrm. i seem to get that issue too.
[00:18] <atrus> erm, maybe not.
[00:19] <atrus> i don't normally use notify-osd at all, and now i seem to have just flooded it with notifications, so it's not working well any more :)
[00:21] <atrus> ddecator / yofel: yeah, it seems to give me that behavior. try running /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd in a terminal, and watch its output when it happens, and report a bug with those contents?
[00:22] <ddecator> atrus: i already filed a bug, but i'll try running that and seeing what results. thanks :)
[00:22] <atrus> ddecator: can i get the url? i'm curious about following up with it :)
[00:23] <atrus> it seems to say something about the screensaver, but again, i don't normally use notify-osd, so i don't know what it might be doing.
[00:23] <ddecator> bug 581991 | atrus
[00:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 581991 in totem (Ubuntu) "Notifications are suppressed when Totem is playing media (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581991
[00:25] <ddecator> huh, you're right, it does mention the screensave, even though i don't have the screensaver option checked in the prefarances. thanks, i'll add it to the report
[00:25] <atrus> yeah, seems slightly goofy to me :)
[00:26] <BUGabundo_Bones> guud nite
[00:28] <ddecator> cya BUGabundo_Bones
[01:36] <chotchki> hey everyone, quick question, if i have a confirmed bug (sorta example #581134) and its a wishlist item for the ubuntu developement team, how should i indicate that status?
[01:37] <chotchki> (the example im going to send upstream but im curious about the ubuntu procedure)
[01:37] <micahg> chotchki: ask someone here to flag as wishlist
[01:38] <chotchki> cool thx
[01:42] <micahg> chotchki: s/flag/set importance to/
[01:52] <chotchki> could someone set the following bugs to wishlist importance? 581452, 581995
[03:12] <hggdh> bug 581452
[03:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 581452 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Categorize search results (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581452
[03:13] <hggdh> bug 581995
[03:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 581995 in dash (Ubuntu) "set -h not supported (affects: 1)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581995
[05:31] <kermiac> nigelb: pong!
[05:53] <ddecator> kermiac: he's at work. i think he just wanted to ask if you're interested in learning how to write apport hooks
[05:54] <kermiac> ddecator: thanks mate, I'm still at work too. I'll try to catch him later :)
[06:23] <iflema> Hello to all... got a packaging request here for an app called juxta. not in Ubuntu or Debian and not in progress or requested. The thing is... URLs and license info(s) are in the bug description... do I add this info as a comment or just set the 'needs-packaging' tag and request a switch to triaged?
[06:36] <iflema> bug 581987
[06:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 581987 in ubuntu "needs packaging: juxta (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581987
[07:41] <bbordwell> I feel that this bug is ready to be marked as triaged with an importance of medium, could a member of BC please do so? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/582045
[07:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 582045 in totem (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Totem quits unexpectedly when doing a double search in the Youtube plugin (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[07:42]  * ddecator looks
[07:44] <ddecator> hm, i wonder if apport would create a crash report with extra info it you enable it and reproduce the crash
[07:44] <bbordwell> ddecator, I already attached a backtrace
[07:45] <ddecator> bbordwell: right, but idk if a crash report would have any extra information, not sure what hooks totem has
[07:49] <ddecator> ok, doesn't look like it has crash-specific hooks
[07:52] <ddecator> bbordwell: i think you or the reporter should still run apport-collect so there is system information on there, along with a few extra logs. i'm not sure if the backtrace alone is enough for the devs to know what the issue is and how to fix it. maybe have someone more experienced with gnome apps look at it, but at this point i'm not comfortable marking it triaged
[07:54] <bbordwell> ddecator, alright I will run apport-collect in a while, as well as get an Strace
[07:55] <ddecator> bbordwell: it might be easier to generate a crash report
[07:56] <bbordwell> ddecator, I will look into it.
[07:58] <ddecator> bbordwell: if you get a crash report, it'd just file a new bug, so you can mark the current bug as a dupe of the crash bug and then remove the upstream link on the original report and add it to the new crash report (with a note for the reporter so they know what's going on obviously) like i said, might not grab much extra information, but it should give more clues as to what caused the crash
[07:58] <bbordwell> ddecator, okay thats for the advise
[07:58] <bbordwell> s/thats/thanks
[07:59] <ddecator> bbordwell: no problem. also, it's usually good to leave a link to the LP report on the upstream report if you have to create a new one since it won't be added right away by the link :)
[08:10] <bbordwell> ddecator, Note apport does not trap SIGABRT signals
[08:10] <bbordwell> backtrace shows a SIGABRT
[08:10] <ddecator> does it? i didn't read through the whole thing in detail, haha
[08:11] <bbordwell> ddecator, haha well I was accidentaly a step ahead of you then :) that note links to a wiki telling you how to get a backtrace...
[08:14] <ddecator> oh, and there it is
[08:14] <ddecator> bbordwell: note?
[08:14] <bbordwell> ddecator, ahh sorry
[08:14] <bbordwell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Apport#How%20to%20enable%20apport
[08:15] <bbordwell> the last thing on that section
[08:17] <ddecator> ah, gotcha. yup, looks good. i was going to suggest a valgrind if you didn't want to do a crash report, but i guess that's not needed either. so a strace would be nice, and just running apport-collect for good measure :)
[08:17] <bbordwell> ddecator, strace is already done
[08:20] <ddecator> bbordwell: that's a lot of info...but yah, that confirms it's a SIGABRT
[08:22] <bbordwell> ddecator, okay apport is done as well. In comment please say you set that as importance medium at my request. I just sent in an application for BC and I used this bug as an example. (I said i would mark it as medium since it was a severe impact on a non core application)
[08:24] <ddecator> bbordwell: fair enough, i think that's all of the information we should need on our end. i would just add a quick comment on the upstream report saying that is was originally report on LP and that more logs are avaiable on the LP report (with a link to the report of course)
[08:25] <bbordwell> ddecator, hmm I forgot to do that. I filed three GNOME bugs tonight and I did it on the others...
[08:30] <ddecator> bbordwell: ok, looks good, just one more thing i want to check real quick
[08:33] <ddecator> bbordwell: ok, so i agree with medium, but totem is a core app, so why is it still medium?
[08:34] <bbordwell> ddecator, well I figure that totem is a core app, but that the youtube plugin is not a core part of the app
[08:36] <ddecator> bbordwell: ah, ok, so that kind of ties in with my reasoning. the bug isn't impacting the functionality for most users since, at this point, it doesn't seem that many users are likely having trouble with this. although i just realized, does only clicking search once work properly?
[08:37] <bbordwell> ddecator, yes
[08:39] <ddecator> bbordwell: ah, i'm leaning more towards low then since it's easy enough to avoid by just clicking once
[08:40] <bbordwell> ddecator, you are correct, it should be low since it is easily worked around.
[08:40] <ddecator> bbordwell: alright, i'll make a note on my comment that we discussed it since you said you included this on your app
[08:44] <bbordwell> ddecator, alright thanks. I am going to go test a bug on fedora though since I have a gstreamer bug that i think may be ubuntu specefic
[08:44] <bbordwell> so talk to you later
[08:45] <ddecator> cya
[08:58] <BUGabundo_remote> I'm an ant,you're a bee
[09:44] <astraljava> BUGabundo_remote: I though AnAnt is an ant.
[11:12] <xelister> it would be really nice if ubuntu 10.04 would support fancy things, like say, a keyboard
[11:13] <xelister> because lack of keyboard makes me a bit miss the 9.10 from which I upgraded. Bug exists on 2 out of 3 tested computers
[11:13] <BUGabundo_remote> lol
[11:13] <xelister> usb keyboards, nothing speciall in dmesh
[11:13] <xelister> dmesg
[11:14] <xelister> how to find similar bugs but only in lucid?  "keyboard not working lucid" or ?
[11:18] <xelister> what would be the best way to report such a bug? against what project?
[11:22] <BUGabundo_remote> project: UBUNTU
[11:22] <BUGabundo_remote> package: some xorg x input ?
[11:48] <xelister> keyboard is not working in Lucid
[11:49] <xelister> how to report that better?  I see similar "reports" but mostlu in googles / forums
[12:06] <xelister> ok so my Lucid is BRICKED, keyboard does not work at all. any known solution?
[12:11] <DrKenobi> Hi! I'm planning to request a mentor at the BugSquad Mentorship Program, but they ask me to have a wiki. Whats that? Where I get it?
[12:12] <xelister> also kmail dies all the time
[12:13]  * xelister rushes to warn friends about installing 10.04
[12:16] <xelister> seriously we should worn users to not upgrade yet, nothing works in this new ubuntu release
[12:18] <zeroseven0183> DrKenobi: You can setup your own Wiki Page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[12:20] <DrKenobi> zeroseven0183, anyone can do it? i thought you have to be someone important! haha I'll set my wiki right now!
[12:20] <DrKenobi> thank u!
[12:26] <arand> xelister: On your machine, mind you. lucid isn't all fail.
[12:26] <xelister> arand: and for 26 other reporters on bugtracker, plus peoples on forums
[12:26] <xelister> arand: on my _2_ machines (out of 3 tested)
[12:29] <arand> xelister: Indeed, but there seems to be a lot out there that don't have no problems at all either, just saying ;)
[12:29] <xelister> how come this bug is not GRAVE priority yet? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/555169
[12:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 555169 in xserver-xorg-input-keyboard (Ubuntu) "[lucid] Keyboard and mouse freeze after grub, usb and PS/2 keyboard not working in X (affects: 27) (heat: 126)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:29] <xelister> please set prio to critical
[12:33] <arand> xelister: On that I would agree though. By the way, if the acpi=off is a viable workaround, it would probably be very useful to add it to the top of the bug description.
[12:34] <arand> xelister: (but I'm not a bug-squadder, so I can't help setting the priority)
[12:34] <xelister> other suggested workarounds include changing  XKBVARIANT = "us,phonetic"  to skip "us"
[12:36] <arand> Ah, well if a workaround is to be in the description, go for whatever seems to have the highest success rate/confirms or working..
[12:37] <arand> If its USB, it could be the kernel (My guess).
[12:38] <xelister> we think it could be also bad setting, like grub or console or other left-overs from previous version
[12:38] <arand> xelister: And if the kernel is indeed the issue, testing from mainline: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds and see if it's already fixed upstream might be a good idea...
[12:41] <xelister> seb128: keyboard not working for dozen of users. can you set priority to high?
[12:41] <xelister> or critical
[12:46] <arand> xelister: Although, priority is not at all a garantee of solution, getting good debugging info, narrowing down (first of all is it xserver or the kernel?), getting a report upstream (if latest release hasn't fixed it), are far better ways to speed up the process.
[12:47] <xelister> I hope more developers are assigned to help fix high priority bugs
[12:53] <arand> Well, if debugging info is lacking, I guess the amount of devs assigned doesn't matter. And if the bug is in the kernel, assigning twenty xserver-devs to it won't do much good either. Although in this case there seems to be at least a hefty amount of info given.
[13:20] <deuxpi> Good day! Bug #580952 causes network file access to fail and has been reproduced with a mainline kernel
[13:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 580952 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Log messages: "CIFS VFS: ignoring corrupt resume name" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580952
[13:20] <deuxpi> Yeah, this one
[13:21] <deuxpi> It probably needs to be marked as Triaged, and, I guess, importance to Medium
[13:21] <nigelb> kermiac: still around?
[13:24] <nigelb> ddecator: what did you find out about nautilius vs nautilius-data?
[14:29] <ali1234> how do i report a bug against the alternate installer?
[14:30] <ali1234> nevermind, someone already reported it
[14:42] <maxb> Has anyone observed suspend-to-ram hanging with lucid-proposed?
[14:50] <xelister> kmail seems to die all the time after upgrade to lucid
[14:51] <DrKenobi> do you think this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/582206 is a duplicate of this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/573957 ?
[14:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582206 in ubuntu "Ubuntu crashes and automatically logout (affects: 2)" [Undecided,New]
[15:14] <hggdh> we do have a meeting today, don't we?
[15:15] <pedro_> according to the schedule, yes
[15:15] <pedro_> 1600 UTC
[15:16] <hggdh> thanks pedro_
[15:16] <pedro_> you're welcome ;-)
[16:12] <pepsiman> What would I report a bug against to get http://www.ubuntu.com/files/countdown/1004/countdown-10.04-1/00.png changed?
[16:52] <ddecator> nigelb: nautilus gave no info, nautilus-data provided what appeared to be all of the non-default gconf settings
[16:53] <nigelb> awesome :)
[16:53] <nigelb> you know how to package?
[16:53] <ddecator> yes
[16:53] <nigelb> package hooks?
[16:53] <ddecator> no, haha
[16:53]  * nigelb hunts for last hook he uploaded
[17:00] <pedro_> Time for the BugSquad meeting folks!!
[17:00] <pedro_> who is around for it?
[17:01] <pedro_> I don't see any agenda item rather than the open discussion https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
[17:01] <pedro_> ping hggdh qense
[17:01] <nigelb> ohh, meeting time ;)
[17:01]  * yofel is around, purely by chance though ^^
[17:01] <kklimonda> yay, meeting
[17:01] <pedro_> awesome!
[17:01] <jibel> hey pedro_
[17:02] <pedro_> so since we don't have an agenda item for this meeting, what about talking about the UDS sessions that might affect us?
[17:02] <zaran_> hello!  this is my first meeting!
[17:02] <pedro_> hello jibel!
[17:02] <nigelb> the one were we talked about mentorship
[17:02] <hggdh> ~o~
[17:02] <yofel> ddecator: ping, meeting time ;)
[17:03] <ddecator> yofel: i have to leave in 10 min :\
[17:03] <pedro_> ok so if you didn't went to UDS there's a few places where you can look for the sessions logs
[17:04] <pedro_> first one is gobby: gobby.ubuntu.com is the host name
[17:04] <pedro_> and this time we used the qa-m-blah format
[17:04] <pedro_> being blah the name of the session, they are some created as qa-maverick-blah though
[17:04] <hggdh> and, sometimes, qa-m-blah-blah
[17:04] <pedro_> right
[17:05] <pedro_> keep in mind that *anybody* can edit the gobby documents so please do not start doing crazy things like deleting them all
[17:05]  * nigelb backs up just in case
[17:05] <pedro_> as a recommendation, the best thing to do is to save one locally and edit in your machine rather than in the server
[17:06] <pedro_> ok the other place to look for logs is
[17:07] <pedro_> is actually for the audio of the sessions http://uds.ubuntu.com/audio/uds-m/
[17:07] <zaran_> I don't see anything at gobby.ubuntu.com
[17:07] <pedro_> if you're interested in hearing the whole session, well that's the perfect place to make the connection between notes and audio
[17:08] <pedro_> zaran_, click on list documents button at gobby
[17:08] <nigelb> zaran_: you have to access through gobby application
[17:08] <zaran_> oh, thanks
[17:08] <pedro_> if you want to know which session to hear/read , have a look to the schedule http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/
[17:10] <pedro_> i know that some of you attended to a couple of sessions on UDS remotely or to almost all of them like nigelb
[17:10] <nigelb> :)
[17:10] <pedro_> anybody else attended to uds remotely this time?
[17:10] <nigelb> yofel and ddecator perhaps
[17:10] <yofel> I attended a few, didn't have much free time :/
[17:10] <pedro_> oh charlie-tca was there too
[17:10] <ddecator> yes, but i'm heading out :)
[17:10] <kklimonda> I've tried but once again it didn't work for me..
[17:10] <pedro_> ah yes ddecator as well ;-)
[17:11] <pedro_> One of the sessions that I personally enjoyed a lot was the BugSquad Roadmap
[17:12] <pedro_> if you look into the gobby document, you'll see a lot of tasks listed
[17:12] <pedro_> we're going to start adding those to the wiki page so anybody on our team can start picking from there and starting to work
[17:12] <pedro_> we created a blueprint for it here: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-bugsquad-roadmap
[17:13] <pedro_> there's plenty of tasks so if you're willing to contribute, stay tune to the mailing list
[17:13] <pedro_> since we're going to start making a call for help shortly
[17:14] <pedro_> We also talked about the BugSquad Mentoring Program
[17:14] <pedro_> we reviewed the process and came out with some good ideas on how to improve it
[17:14] <pedro_> hggdh, qense want to say anything about that session?
[17:15] <hggdh> yes
[17:15]  * pedro_ pass the mic to hggdh
[17:15] <hggdh> a summary -- we (finally) realised it was not quite working, and decided to review the process. From then on pedro_ and qense took over
[17:16] <hggdh> and -- we hope -- we will have a more responsive process from now on. Amazingly, I ended up with *no* tasks to perform ;-)
[17:17] <hggdh> as such, I now defer to qense and pedro_ :-)
[17:17] <pedro_> heh ;-)
[17:17] <pedro_> thanks hggdh
[17:18] <pedro_> as you know we've been working on the Adopt an Upstream/Package initiative
[17:18] <pedro_> we had a session about that as well
[17:19] <pedro_> if you're interested on it the session was called community-m-upstream-contacts
[17:19] <pedro_> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-upstream-contacts
[17:20] <pedro_> the name on gobby is: community-m-adopt-upstream
[17:21] <pedro_> another session that you might be interested in is the https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-m-regression-bug-management
[17:22] <pedro_> at least as in an informative way, please have a look to the document and hear the audio too
[17:23] <pedro_> alright, from the folks who attended remotely or went to UDS any session  you may want to highlight?
[17:23] <hggdh> and -- please -- feedback is really appreciated. Do comment, discuss, and disagree (if needed)
[17:26] <pedro_> yes totally, please don't be shy we're open to comments :-)
[17:27] <pedro_> alright seems that's all for now from the uds topics
[17:27] <kklimonda> is there a list of packages that could particularly use an adopter?
[17:27] <kklimonda> some packages in universe that had problems in lucid cycle due to lack of communication for example
[17:27] <qense> Sorry, was away during the previous remarks. There is nothing much I would like to add, just that I think it is awesome that some people have already decided to adopt certain smaller packages they like. If only some of you would get together to adopt a larger (core) package with a group I d be even mroe happy!
[17:27] <kklimonda> I remember a problem with audacious
[17:28] <pedro_> we have a list on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/AdoptPackage
[17:28] <pedro_> we need to update that though, we have an action item on that
[17:28] <kklimonda> one day the upstream developer has come to #-motu and asked us to remove audacious from archive completely :)
[17:28] <hggdh> kklimonda: in principle, any package is fair game
[17:28] <nigelb> ok, someone just decided to rease the gobby doc it seems
[17:28] <pedro_> of course if you adopt openoffice.org we'll buy you thousand of beers ;-)
[17:29] <nigelb> I'm restoring it, please don't delete again
[17:29] <qense> Yeah, someone really should look after OpenOffice's many, many bugs.
[17:29] <kklimonda> pedro_: on the other hand if I adopt OO.o I may have no time to drink them ;)
[17:29] <pedro_> haha good point
[17:29] <pedro_> qense, any highlight you might want to share?
[17:30]  * hggdh has one point to raise
[17:30] <pedro_> hggdh, please go ahead
[17:30] <qense> Nothing else I'd like tell.
[17:31]  * micahg needs help with Firefox bugs :)
[17:31] <hggdh> I have noticed that the busquad and control MLs are sort of idling. It might be a good idea to start using it more
[17:31] <micahg> hggdh: ah, that came up in the bugsquad blueprint IIRC :)
[17:32] <hggdh> micahg: yes... something like a monthly reminder of what this is all about, and more discussions
[17:32] <hggdh> which I have just tried to poke, with my "is BugControl dense" email
[17:32] <yofel> and a meeting reminder...
[17:32] <nigelb> We seem to be using it only for applications lately
[17:32] <hggdh> yes. This is *wrong*
[17:32] <pedro_> yofel, and choose meeting times ;-)
[17:33] <yofel> yep
[17:33] <pedro_> did anybody filed their best time for the meeting to happen?
[17:33] <hggdh> I did
[17:33] <qense> e.g: If someone proposes an item for the meeting agenda (s)he should send a mail to the mailing list so it can be discussed.
[17:33] <pedro_> http://www.when2meet.com/?30657-7nGss <- please do it here
[17:33] <pedro_> that's really important for us
[17:33] <qense> If you make an important or large change to the wiki page, or plan on making one, please also send a mail to the mailing list.
[17:34] <hggdh> qense: indeed. If we can hash out the points before the meetings, it will be more productive
[17:34] <vish> qense: the bugsquad is already subscribed to the wiki , isnt it?
[17:34] <pedro_> yes, but a little explanation would be nice too
[17:34] <kklimonda> pedro_: what timezone are those hours in? :)
[17:34] <nigelb> UTC
[17:34] <qense> vish: Most pages, but not all.
[17:34] <vish> ah..
[17:34] <qense> yeah, and the explanation
[17:35] <pedro_> like if you added a new stock response, say why you're adding it , maybe it was requested by a developer etc
[17:35] <qense> vish: e.g.: I recently created a new page in the BugSquad namespace and saw no notification mail for that on the mailing list
[17:35] <pedro_> so other can also say oh so i can contact the developers and make sure all their stock responses are up2date
[17:35] <qense> If you decide to adopt a package I'd also greatly appreciate if you'd notice the mailing list.
[17:35] <vish> qense: we might have to subscribe the team to bugsquad/* then
[17:36] <qense> Maybe
[17:36] <hggdh> vish: I had set up an LP account to do that, will check on it
[17:36] <pedro_> thank you hggdh!
[17:36] <vish> hggdh: neat
[17:36] <pedro_> ok guys so please please please fill up your best times for the meeting
[17:36]  * vish likes this time :D
[17:37] <pedro_> we need to decide that soon ;-)
[17:37] <qense> There are a lot of people unavailable at a lot of times.
[17:37] <kklimonda> done
[17:37] <pedro_> let's follow up with our "agenda"
[17:37] <hggdh> also we are considering having more than one time-to-meet, alternating
[17:37] <micahg> anyone have the time link handy?
[17:37] <pedro_> we can discuss further the meeting time on the bugsquad mailing list
[17:37] <nigelb> http://www.when2meet.com/?30657-7nGss
[17:37] <hggdh> micahg: http://www.when2meet.com/?30657-7nGss
[17:37] <hggdh> Moving on?
[17:37] <pedro_> nigelb, you have an item to discuss, please go ahead
[17:38] <nigelb> ok, thanks pedro_ :)
[17:38] <nigelb> We all have seen bugs reported through apport and how they generally help us triage faster
[17:38] <nigelb> Last cycle I had written a few hooks, this cycle, I'd like to help others learn how to write them
[17:38] <micahg> this doesn't seem to work, looks like almost everyone is unavailble all the time
[17:39] <qense> Maybe we should make writing the hooks more structured.
[17:39]  * hggdh pokes micahg, and laughs
[17:39] <charlie-tca> micahg: it is not as easy as doodle
[17:39] <qense> Can't we generate a report for the packages that do and don't have Apport hooks?
[17:39] <nigelb> In this regard, I've poked ddecator and kermiac with 2 simple tasks which they completed in less than 12 hours
[17:39] <nigelb> qense: yes we can
[17:39] <kklimonda> micahg: well, we have other things to do but thursday, 8pm looks nice :)
[17:39] <micahg> heh, nigelb, hggdh and I were discussing that last night
[17:40] <nigelb> So, I'll be leading an effort to get more learning how to write.  there are folks who know it.
[17:40] <nigelb> If you want to help out, poke me and I'll get something you can work on
[17:40] <nigelb> micahg: anything you want to add in?
[17:40] <pedro_> nigelb, are you planning to do a call for help on that regard?
[17:40] <qense> nigelb: I'm afraid I'm quite busy already, so I won't be of much help.
[17:40] <nigelb> pedro_: yes
[17:40] <pedro_> would be great to announce the effort widely ;-)
[17:40] <micahg> nigelb: well, hggdh and I were thinking that documentation on hook writing and training sessions would be good
[17:41]  * hggdh humbly suggests using the MLs
[17:41] <vish> nigelb: you've setup a wiki ? , or is that already there
[17:41] <micahg> nigelb: also, trying to get the maintainers interested in writing hooks as well
[17:41] <hggdh> yes
[17:41] <nigelb> micahg: yes, that too
[17:41] <pedro_> micahg, that'd be *awesome*
[17:41] <nigelb> vish: there is already a wiki from karmic cycle
[17:41] <nigelb> I feel us playing tag with maintainers isn't going to help.  Time to take things into our hands.
[17:42] <nigelb> If we have a solid system where they can ask help, etc, it might help better
[17:42] <hggdh> well, eventually the maintainers will have to review and approve
[17:42] <micahg> nigelb: well, if they don't respond, that's fine, but I think they should be addressed as well though
[17:42] <pedro_> yes sounds good, they have to review those later anyways
[17:42] <nigelb> I have a few plans, if someone can help me coordinate things, we can work something out
[17:42] <micahg> and here's an apport hook related blueprint for those that are interested: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-browser-apport/
[17:43] <pedro_> awesome! thanks for this great initiative nigelb
[17:43] <nigelb> pedro_: :)
[17:44] <pedro_> is there any other agenda item for the meeting?
[17:44] <hggdh> yes
[17:44] <pedro_> hggdh, go for it ;-)
[17:44] <hggdh> back to mentorship, a bit more of data (well, actually *not* in the agenda)
[17:45] <hggdh> we decided to create a small group of admins for the mentorship programme; these admins should cover all TZs
[17:46] <hggdh> we are in need of one in the Asia TZ, we already have folks for Americas and Europe. Anyone insterested, please contact pedro_ , qense, charlie-tca or myself
[17:46]  * nigelb can help
[17:46]  * pedro_ hugs nigelb
[17:46]  * hggdh accepts :-)
[17:47] <qense> yay!
[17:47] <charlie-tca> yay
[17:47] <nigelb> about time I taught stuff my mentor taught me ;)
[17:47]  * hggdh blushes
[17:47] <nigelb> just fyi, hggdh was my mentor :)
[17:47]  * BUGabundo_remote checks he is in the proper #
[17:47] <pedro_> hahah
[17:47] <pedro_> alright folks anything else?
[17:48] <hggdh> not from me
[17:48] <nigelb> as always patch review could use some help from bug squad :)
[17:48] <qense> nope
[17:48] <pedro_> what a great meeting :-)
[17:48] <hggdh> oh
[17:48] <hggdh> patch review
[17:48] <pedro_> please guys remember if you need help with anything, we have a meeting list ;-))
[17:48] <hggdh> this is a good thing. For those interested, we do need a lot of help reviewing patches
[17:48] <pedro_> a mailing list rather
[17:48] <pedro_> ;-)
[17:49] <hggdh> yes, lets start using it more
[17:49] <pedro_> there's a lot of request to join the bugsquad team on lp, let's use it for other announcements/discussions/ideas/etc as well
[17:49] <nigelb> ok, so #endmeeting?
[17:49] <pedro_> yeah let's wrap up :-)
[17:50] <duanedesign> could i just say that i was reviewing the gobby doc and saw 'screencasts' mentioned. If the Screencat Team can be any assistance let me know.
[17:50] <pedro_> thank you guys! you're the best
[17:50] <hggdh> duanedesign: offer noted and (already) accepted. Thank you!
[17:50] <pedro_> duanedesign, great! we'll contact you shortly then ;-)) thanks a lot
[17:51] <charlie-tca> sorry I was late. Did I miss anything in the first 20 minutes?
[17:51] <nigelb> charlie-tca: uds round up
[17:51] <hggdh> charlie-tca: it was just a summary of UDS
[17:51] <pedro_> charlie-tca, yes, we assigned all the tasks to you ;-)
[17:51] <charlie-tca> Great!
[17:51] <pedro_> oops
[17:51] <charlie-tca> I needed more to do
[17:51] <hggdh> well, now that you say that...
[17:52]  * charlie-tca is getting bored, with triaging, testing, xubuntu-leadership role, etc
[17:52] <hggdh> OK. I am done
[17:52] <nigelb> charlie-tca: talk to jorge, he always has lots of tasks lying around
[17:52] <charlie-tca> going hide instead
[17:52] <hggdh> heh
[17:52] <pedro_> jibel, are you going to publish the slides of your presentation somewhere?
[17:53] <nigelb> ok, since meeting is officially over, can we talk about stuff post meeting
[17:53] <hggdh> nigelb: most certainly
[17:53] <nigelb> hggdh: I was wondering if we could use a wiki page for membership instead of mail to bugsquad list
[17:53] <pedro_> jibel, would be amazing if you can send an email to the bugsquad if you do it ;-))
[17:53] <nigelb> admins can subscribe to the page and they can remove people from list once accepted
[17:54] <hggdh> nigelb: perhaps we should change the requirement -- instead of emailing the ML, just requesting membership on LP
[17:54] <nigelb> but we can get confirmation of 'read triage guide'
[17:54] <hggdh> the team admins always get emailed on the request
[17:54] <nigelb> *can't
[17:54] <yofel> the mailing list message was to make sure the people are subscribed to the list
[17:54] <jibel> pedro_, no problem,I'll attach upload it to the wiki and send an email
[17:54] <pedro_> is there any easy way to check if a person was subscribed to the mailing list?
[17:54] <pedro_> or that info is only available to the ml admins?
[17:54] <hggdh> pedro_: the list admin can look it up
[17:54] <pedro_> eek..
[17:55] <hggdh> :-)
[17:55] <nigelb> well, only easy way is lp admin=list admin
[17:55] <yofel> how about moving the ML to LP ?
[17:55] <hggdh> or we can just *trust*
[17:55] <nigelb> well, what % of folks had signed CoC before we closed?
[17:55] <yofel> hggdh: we already did that... unsuccessfully...
[17:55] <hggdh> this is, after all, about trusting people to Do The Right Thing
[17:56] <nigelb> that should give an  idea of whether we can *trust*
[17:56] <hggdh> yes, I agree, yofel, but we can check if the CoC was signed
[17:56] <hggdh> and -- for good or for worse -- we can monitor the actions (somehow)
[17:56] <yofel> considering that we lost about 50% of the members on LP after the purge, not that many...
[17:56] <nigelb> Ok, in that case, I have a suggestion
[17:57] <nigelb> we use M/L more so that people end up subscribing to it to keep track of things
[17:57] <hggdh> yofel: we did not require the CoC before
[17:57] <nigelb> and we trust them after checking CoC is signed
[17:57] <hggdh> nigelb: yes indeed. For example, a summary of this meeting, etc, etc
[17:57] <yofel> hggdh: we didn't? I thought we did... but I seriously can't remember how it was when I joined so I might be wrong...
[17:58] <nigelb> I dont remember having done so.
[17:58] <pedro_> yofel, there was no requirements, the team was an open one
[17:59] <pedro_> jibel, thanks!!
[17:59] <hggdh> CoC was only required for -control
[17:59]  * yofel wonders why he signed the CoC then back then... can't remember anymore
[17:59] <nigelb> hggdh: perhaps you can talk to brian about having people only apply
[17:59]  * hggdh points to pedro_ :-)
[18:00]  * pedro_ whistle
[18:00] <yofel> well, I knew the team was open, but I though it said so on some wiki page, whatever
[18:00] <hggdh> I am not a bugmeister, just a grasshopper
[18:00] <nigelb> heh
[18:00] <hggdh> but yes, Brian, Pedro and I will discuss it
[18:01] <charlie-tca> yofel: I think you are right. I had to sign the CoC in 2006 when I joined the team
[18:01] <deuxpi> could be nice to have people "present" themselves to the ML instead of just applying
[18:01] <nigelb> ok, so about the apport hooks
[18:01] <hggdh> deuxpi: yes. Some of them nowadays do that, but it is not required
[18:01]  * pedro_ -> lunch
[18:02] <charlie-tca> nigelb: I'm useless for that. I can not program these days
[18:02] <nigelb> charlie-tca: hooks are easy.  pitti has done half the work.
[18:02] <nigelb> I was envisioning a wiki page where we can list package that need apport hooks, bug number for the wishlist bug, and info that needs to be collected
[18:02] <charlie-tca> When I have some time, I'll get back to you and see if I can learn it
[18:03] <nigelb> if someone wants to help they can pick a bug from it and start working on it
[18:03] <micahg> nigelb: I suggest using tags rather than a wiki list
[18:03] <yofel> +1
[18:03] <duanedesign> hggdh: pedro_ looking at the type of screencast mentioned looks like something that will be on the 'Developer Network'. If you have anything geared more for desktop users in the chute let me know. Please :)
[18:03] <nigelb> micahg: that works too
[18:03] <nigelb> the idea is maintianers can ask us to make it if they don't want to learn the whole apport thing
[18:04] <nigelb> and we can have some low lying fruit for people who want to work on them
[18:04]  * hggdh jumps around happily -- the ML poke sent is generating responses
[18:04] <micahg> nigelb: I think the first thing you should do is send an e-mail to ubuntu-devel explaining what you want to do and soliciting maintainer by-in either in the form of making the hooks or opening bugs with the required info
[18:05] <nigelb> micahg: I can do that, but I'd like some help with coordination.  I have a big set of WI from UDS.
[18:05] <hggdh> WI?
[18:05] <nigelb> worklist items
[18:05] <hggdh> what's it?
[18:05] <micahg> nigelb: I'm still working on mine from last cycle :)
[18:05] <hggdh> oh
[18:06] <nigelb> micahg: lol
[18:06] <nigelb> well, then I'll do the stuff, can review?
[18:06] <micahg> nigelb: sure
[18:06] <nigelb> perhaps over the weekend we can get the groundwork done
[18:06] <hggdh> nigelb: send it over to all of us, we will be happy to review and help
[18:06] <micahg> +1
[18:07] <nigelb> I find upstream devs in -desktop wanting pitti to review hooks etc.
[18:07] <nigelb> we should be able to do that stuff
[18:07] <micahg> nigelb: not necessarily
[18:07] <hggdh> it is very much like a patch review, after all
[18:08] <nigelb> well, most of the time, its not big things.  they know what info they want, but not how to get it
[18:08] <nigelb> basically a lack of knowledge of the apport stuff
[18:08] <nigelb> that is a void that we as bug squad can fill
[18:09] <nigelb> im sure a lot of folks know how to write one.
[18:09] <nigelb> i've play with it quite a lot.
[18:10] <nigelb> thoughts?
[18:12] <hggdh> we should probably augment the docs with examples
[18:12] <micahg> +1
[18:13] <nigelb> yeah.  mostly from /usr/share/apport/package-hooks
[18:13] <hggdh> and I still think the patch review team is the ideal place for initial screening
[18:13] <nigelb> the reason why im hesitant is not all of the aptch review folks should know apport
[18:14] <hggdh> nigelb: BTW, I did my first (official) patch review -- and set it as needswork ;-)
[18:14] <micahg> hggdh: the problem I see with that is that with patches, you can apply locally and test to see if the problem is resolved, it's harder w/hooks w/out opening a bug
[18:14] <nigelb> hggdh: woo! yaay!
[18:14] <nigelb> micahg: well, you can file a bug against staging
[18:14] <hggdh> not really. It *is* a patch to the package, and it can be tested against staging (or even locally)
[18:15] <micahg> hggdh: k, well, as long as that is documented somewhere, I didn't even know we can file bugs against staging
[18:15] <nigelb> micahg: I'll get that doc in a few.  I always misplace that particular thing
[18:15] <micahg> hggdh: if that's the case, then I agree
[18:15] <hggdh> there is also something that worries me a bit, the risk of private data being collected
[18:16] <nigelb> actually, the firsrt test should be done use apport-cli and set to save only
[18:16] <yofel> micahg: man apport-bug says that you can set APPORT_STAGING so it files bugs there
[18:16] <qense> dinner, afk!
[18:16] <qense> (even more afk than I already was)
[18:17] <hggdh> heh
[18:17] <nigelb> how about we take this to the mailing list and talk about it there?
[18:17] <nigelb> that way we achive the secret task of getting it more active
[18:17] <hggdh> good idea. Another point is most hooks agaisnt stable will need a SRU
[18:18] <nigelb> Also, one of the old specs had some script to get most common packages for which the last 1000 bugs were filed
[18:18] <nigelb> sru for hooks should be no fuss
[18:19] <nigelb> I'll write a mail in the mornign when I'm more alert and we'll continue the planning there :)
[18:19] <hggdh> k. nigelb, are you going to send out an email? If so, to which ML?
[18:19] <nigelb> bug squad
[18:19] <hggdh> COOL!
[18:22] <laz0r> hi, can I just confirm a bug on launchpad if I experience it too?
[18:24] <laz0r> or are there certain criterias that have to be met first?
[18:27] <nigelb> laz0r: well, are you reproducing it in the exact same conditions?
[18:27] <nigelb> most of the time you can confirm
[18:31] <micahg> laz0r: if there are steps to reproduce and not an X, video card, kernel or sound bug, then yes
[18:32] <laz0r> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/567068
[18:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 567068 in udev (Ubuntu) "udev rules with dot in key fails with Env must be KEY=VALUE pairs (affects: 5) (heat: 28)" [Undecided,New]
[18:33] <laz0r> thats the one I would like to confirm, it is somewhat X related
[18:33] <laz0r> plus there is a debian bug report linked that says that they won't fix the issue and you should use the xorg.conf instead
[23:17] <ddecator> nigelb: so there is a problem with that hook. you around?
[23:35] <hggdh> anyone here used NTP (not ntpdate) on Lucid?
[23:35] <hggdh> s/used/uses/
[23:38] <BUGabundo_Naruto> no
[23:38] <BUGabundo_Naruto> nptdate here in maverick
[23:44] <charlie-tca> I tried to use NTP, but I don't really know how to set it up
[23:46] <mrand> micahg: did you fill out some times that you're available for a meeting on the when2meet time map?  That app doesn't make it easy to see when one particular person is available, but I tried to move  my mouse over every time segment and don't see where you're available at all.
[23:47] <hggdh> charlie-tca: pretty much all you should need to do is install it
[23:47] <micahg> mrand: no, but I'm available almost all the time except Sat 00:00 UTC to Sun 2:30 UTC
[23:47] <charlie-tca> I am on static ip's
[23:47] <hggdh> no problem
[23:48] <charlie-tca> It kept giving me error messages about not being to able find the server
[23:48] <mrand> micahg: hmm... it has you as unavailable for all times.  Could you perhaps go turn everything there green?
[23:48] <hggdh> charlie-tca: this is strange. The default NTP install comes with ntp.ubuntu.com set as the server
[23:48] <hggdh> it should work
[23:49] <micahg> mrand: that requires clicking too many of those boxes, now I know why everyone else is only clicked a few :)
[23:49] <ddecator> micahg: click and drag :p
[23:49] <hggdh> charlie-tca: my issue is that NTP is not being started on boot (or when the net comes active)
[23:49] <charlie-tca> don't you need a crontab entry for it?
[23:50] <micahg> mrand: UTC, right?
[23:50] <mrand> micahg: yep!
[23:50] <charlie-tca> I don't think it starts on boot, it goes off cron instead, doesn't it?
[23:53] <micahg> mrand: done
[23:53] <mrand> awesome.
[23:53] <hggdh> charlie-tca: no, not the ntp server. ntpdate, yes, should be started via crontab every hour or so
[23:55] <hggdh> pure NTP (ntpd) should be started on NIC up