[07:12] <lifeless> is there a asia RMB tonight? persia ?
[07:12]  * persia checks the wiki for those who don't like URLs
[07:14] <persia> lifeless: I think "no", as the wiki page claims the next meeting is on the 11th.  I suspect the next meeting is really on the 25th.
[07:14] <lifeless> persia: thanks!
[11:51] <dholbach> pleia2, Technoviking, popey, nixternal: 9m?
[12:01] <dholbach> hum, I guess I'll wait with my 2 agenda items: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda :)
[12:02] <popey> :)
[12:02] <persia> At least the second one really ought be discussed in this timeslot, as interested folks are more likely to be around.
[12:02] <dholbach> given that it's just boring administrative stuff, I could also take it to email
[12:03] <dholbach> I guess it's just a matter of filing an RT ticket
[12:03] <persia> Is it just adjustment of the subscription lists to match the recent selection process?
[12:03] <dholbach> yes
[12:04] <persia> Oh, then yeah, no point to discussion ;)
[12:04] <dholbach> amachu unfortunately didn't find the time
[12:04]  * persia thought it was something more complicated, as it was on the agenda
[12:04] <dholbach> who will send the RT ticket?
[12:04] <persia> heh.  I can do the second one, but not the first, if that helps.  Might be easier to put both in one though.
[12:04] <dholbach> the other discussion is separate
[12:05] <dholbach> persia: thanks a bunch for taking on the rmb asia update!
[12:05] <persia> Which other discussion is separate?
[12:05] <dholbach> I suggested on team-council-members@lists.u.c that we move the list to LP to make updating a bit easier
[12:05] <dholbach> I'll prod the discussion again
[12:06] <persia> Yeah, that's probably best.  That does need discussion (branding, etc.)
[12:06] <dholbach> right-o
[12:06] <dholbach> Is there anything more that needs to be discussed?
[12:06] <persia> I think you need quorum to have a meeting, and it's not present, so no point formally ending the meeting :)
[12:08] <dholbach> well, there's people who were interested in discussing these things and we got some stuff sorted out already :)
[12:08] <dholbach> so I asked if there was anything more
[12:09] <persia> Not from me.
[12:09] <dholbach> ok cool
[12:09] <dholbach> popey: all set?
[12:10] <popey> nothing here
[12:10] <dholbach> alright, thanks everybody :)
[12:10] <czajkowski> short n sweet
[12:11] <popey> I am
[12:11] <Pendulum> popey: you're sweet. I'm not so sure about short.
[12:12] <popey> awww
[12:12] <popey> *hugs*
[12:12]  * Pendulum hugs popey back
[12:14] <sabdfl> hello folks, sorry for being late
[12:21] <popey> np, i think dholbach is taking it to the ml sabdfl
[12:21] <sabdfl> okdokey
[12:21] <sabdfl> happy to be home?
[12:21] <popey> oh yes!
[12:22] <popey> kids nearly exploded :)
[14:00] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
[14:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:00] <ogra> rool call first ?
[14:00] <davidm> G'day NCommander
[14:00] <ogra> *roll
[14:01] <asac> o/
[14:01] <NCommander> who's here?
[14:02] <NCommander> GrueMaster: you here?
[14:02] <GrueMaster> yep
[14:02] <davidm> dyfet, you about?
[14:02] <ogra> persia, ?
[14:03] <NCommander> no dyfet or persia :-/
[14:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100518
[14:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100518
[14:03] <asac> (i think cooloney also attends for kernel parts still)
[14:04] <NCommander> There are no outstanding action items from last week
[14:04] <NCommander> (there were all checked and completed)
[14:04] <ogra> the work item link is wrongi think
[14:04] <ogra> should be rather http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10.html
[14:04] <ogra> (not that it matters since there isnt anything on it anyway atm)
[14:05] <asac> I think we should use QA Status standing item to talk about SRU targets or something until first milestone for maverick is out
[14:05] <asac> GrueMaster: ^^?
[14:05] <asac> what do you think?
[14:06] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney)
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney)
[14:06] <ogra> oh, right, i have an action item to add for myself for next meeting
[14:06] <GrueMaster> Well, since I don't have a current image, I have nothing to report on image status.
[14:06] <cooloney> oh, actually, nothing new from my side about fsl-imx51
[14:06] <cooloney> kernel
[14:06] <ogra> i talked to slangasek at UDS, we're allowed to SRU bug #568736, NCommander please add an action item for me that i take care
[14:07]  * NCommander coughs
[14:07] <ogra> we'll need it for our PPA build
[14:07] <NCommander> Stay on topic people :-)
[14:07] <ogra> cooloney, i think OMAP is the kernel topic for now :)
[14:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to SRU bug #568736
[14:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to SRU bug #568736
[14:07] <cooloney> ogra: ok, got it
[14:07] <ogra> thanks
[14:07] <cooloney> just discussed with amitk
[14:08] <cooloney> so we are going to use .33 based omap4 kernel code for 10.07
[14:09] <ogra> right
[14:09] <cooloney> and for 10.10, we will have one more flavor in our kernel master branch named omapmainline
[14:09] <GrueMaster> fyi 2.6.34 is out,
[14:09] <cooloney> which will contains upstream omap3/omap4
[14:09] <cooloney> GrueMaster: since 10.07 is critical, and we will try to use the lucid ti-omap branch code base
[14:09] <cooloney> so .33 is much easier
[14:09] <ogra> not only that
[14:09] <GrueMaster> Ok.
[14:10] <ogra> 10.07 is lucid
[14:10] <cooloney> and ti's git tree is also based on .33
[14:10] <cooloney> yeah
[14:10] <cooloney> 10.07 is lucid
[14:10] <asac> cooloney: will we use -omap (for 3) and -omap4 as subarch in kernel package names?
[14:10] <asac> or also rename to -omap3?
[14:10] <ogra> u-boot uses -omap3 currently btw
[14:10] <cooloney> asac: actually, i plan to use -omap4
[14:11] <ogra> cooloney, any keep -omap
[14:11] <ogra> ?
[14:11] <NCommander> Its a pain to rename for 10.07 if we do omap3 there, but we should rename the image for maverick
[14:11] <asac> right. my question was if you are going for -omap3 or still to -omap for 3 (for maverick that is)
[14:11] <ogra> NCommander, 10.07 is out of discussion
[14:11] <cooloney> but -omap or -omap4 is not a big problem for me
[14:11] <ogra> asac, i think the masterplan is to have one -omap kernel in the end (maverick+1)
[14:12] <cooloney> asac: yeah,
[14:12] <ogra> so the version based fully on mainline should probably stay -omep
[14:12] <ogra> heh
[14:12] <ogra> -omap
[14:12] <cooloney> at end, the omap kernel will be in mainline supporting omap3 and omap4
[14:12] <asac> ok that would be a good line
[14:12] <cooloney> it will be just a flavour
[14:12] <cooloney> not a branch
[14:12] <asac> fine with me
[14:13] <cooloney> but before that, we will have a topic branch named omap4patchdump for sync up with ti's patch drop
[14:13] <asac> what about uboot? do we need to rename that using the same rule?
[14:13] <ogra> for u-boot you will have -omap3 and -omap4 packages
[14:13] <ogra> no
[14:13] <asac> or will it always be -omap3 vs. -omap4 vs. -omap5?
[14:13] <asac> etc
[14:13] <ogra> because they are completely different versioned sources
[14:13] <asac> kk
[14:13] <cooloney> so, ogra, for 10.07, is -omap4 for PPA better or just -omap
[14:13] <ogra> *if* we can have one u-boot source i'll consider calling it -omap
[14:13] <davidm> asac, OMAP 3 is planned for 10.10 if at all possible
[14:14] <asac> yep.
[14:14] <ogra> cooloney, i think -omap4 might be better wrt upgrades to maverick
[14:14] <slangasek> ogra: allowed to SRU> I think I suggested getting a second opinion from pitti or cjwatson, first?
[14:14] <ogra> since 10.07 will be installed from scratch we save one package transition
[14:14] <davidm> I don't want to drop the community, the Gumstix and Beagle boards are very nice and OMAP 3
[14:14] <cooloney> ogra: ok, got it.
[14:14] <asac> davidm: ++
[14:14] <ogra> slangasek, yes, but i'm good at bribing :)
[14:15] <davidm> The 512M Gumstix board is NICE
[14:15] <cooloney> currently, i git clone the branch from ti's git tree
[14:15] <cooloney> and rebased to our ti-omap branch
[14:15] <cooloney> now fixed the kernel config
[14:15] <ogra> right, so name the resulting binary -omap4
[14:15] <ogra> for future consistency
[14:15] <cooloney> during the building, met some compiling issues which should be ti omap4 code's problem
[14:16] <ogra> talk to ndec about that please (and put me on CC)
[14:16] <ogra> we should probably invite him to this meeting
[14:16] <ogra> NCommander, can you take an action for that ?
[14:16] <cooloney> so now, i am closed to build a omap4 kernel package
[14:17] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
[14:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
[14:17] <ogra> makes sense to have him around if he has time
[14:17] <ogra> cooloney, cool !
[14:17] <ogra> as soon as you have something to test, NCommander and i have the HW to test it ...
[14:18] <ogra> cooloney, what target SoCs did you enable yet ?
[14:18] <cooloney> ogra: is the kernel and header .deb enough for your testing?
[14:18] <ogra> no need for the header for now
[14:18] <NCommander> cooloney: yes
[14:18] <ogra> i wont build modules
[14:18] <cooloney> ogra: i imported the omap4 defconfig
[14:18] <ogra> hmm
[14:18] <ogra> i wonder if there are differences between blaze and panda
[14:18] <ogra> perferably we want to have both supported
[14:19] <ogra> mpoirier, !!
[14:19] <ogra> welcome !
[14:19] <mpoirier> good morning all
[14:19] <zyga> hello
[14:19] <NCommander> welcome
[14:19] <cooloney> omap_4430sdp_defconfig
[14:19] <cooloney> ogra: ^^
[14:19] <ogra> cooloney, sounds pretty generic
[14:19] <asac> heh
[14:19] <davidm> welcome mpoirier
[14:20] <ogra> cooloney, for the omap3 kernel in maverick we seem to lack some patches btw
[14:20] <cooloney> ogra: yeah, DSS patches?
[14:20] <ogra> cooloney, i tried the lucid kernel and cant get the display to work on the touchbook
[14:20] <ogra> right
[14:20] <ogra> there is a bug for that
[14:20] <cooloney> amitk added them
[14:20] <ogra> between lucid and today ?
[14:21] <cooloney> oh, sorry, not that
[14:21] <ogra> right
[14:21] <cooloney> ok, after i build the package i will take a look
[14:21] <ogra> there might also be patches for zoom2 that we are missing
[14:21] <cooloney> for the omap config,
[14:21] <ogra> (also omap3)
[14:21] <ogra> (and also display related)
[14:21] <cooloney> ogra: do you have the working kernel config for your hardware?
[14:22] <ogra> cooloney, nope, for the zoom i know XorA has it, we can ask him in #ubuntu-arm after the meeting
[14:22] <ogra> for the touchbook i have to dig it up, but their current kernel is something like 2.6.29
[14:23] <cooloney> ogra: good. so for 10.07, which one is our target hardware?
[14:23] <ogra> we have general touchbook and zoom2 support in the lucid kernel
[14:23] <ogra> both boot fine
[14:23] <ogra> its just the display
[14:23] <ogra> for 10.07 its panda and blaze
[14:23] <ogra> both omap4
[14:24] <cooloney> so, we don't have the kernel configs i guess
[14:24] <ogra> 10.10 omap3: beagle, zoom, gumstix, touchbook .... 10.07 omap4: blaze, panda
[14:24] <NCommander> anything else or can I moveon?
[14:24] <ogra> cooloney, we have them enabled already
[14:24] <ogra> cooloney, (omap3 that is)
[14:25] <cooloney> ogra: understand
[14:25] <ogra> cooloney, for omap3 only DSS2 patches seem to be missing
[14:25] <cooloney> NCommander: i am done, nothing more now
[14:25] <ogra> and probably sound
[14:25] <ogra> cooloney, for omap4 we need to get them from TI
[14:25] <NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:25] <ogra> if there are any specific items at least
[14:25] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:26] <GrueMaster> I thought we were skipping this?
[14:26] <ogra> why should we ? :)
[14:26] <cooloney> ogra: ok, i see
[14:26] <dyfet> NCommander: sorry was late getting back
[14:26] <GrueMaster> Because there is nothing to report at this time.
[14:27] <ogra> GrueMaster, so any masterplan for omap testing ?
[14:27] <GrueMaster> Give me boards, testing will happen.
[14:27] <asac> i really think we should keep SRU stuff on topic for QA
[14:27] <ogra> note that the images will be different
[14:27] <GrueMaster> That's the current plan.
[14:27] <asac> so nothing SRU worthy ? fine.
[14:27] <zyga> what is your testing plan if I may ask?
[14:27]  * zyga looks from ubuntu-on-arm qa perspective
[14:28] <ogra> right, i'd like to hear about that too ... but GrueMaster is right, no testing without HW ...
[14:28] <NCommander> msg davidm do we *really* want ubuntu-on-arm mixing with mobile right now?
[14:28] <NCommander> argh
[14:28] <NCommander> fuck me
[14:28] <GrueMaster> I don't know how to define "SRU worthy" wrt the bugs in Lucid.  There are a lot of bugs that need fixing, but I don't know how they affect contract status, etc.
[14:28] <ogra> GrueMaster, so you should get a gumstix and we need to get you a beagle XM at least for the omap3 testing
[14:28] <davidm> NCommander, I'm not sure I understand your question
[14:29] <GrueMaster> ogra: That would help, yes.
[14:29] <ogra> GrueMaster, for omap4 we need to wait for the pandas
[14:29] <GrueMaster> I am going to look into the gumstix later today.
[14:30] <ogra> zyga, do you have any suggestions for testing ?
[14:30] <GrueMaster> As to SRU issues, My main issues are kernel on dove & babbage related.
[14:31] <ogra> whats open there ?
[14:32] <GrueMaster> I'll have to dig up a list, but off the top of my head, bug 559065 and bug 509006.
[14:32] <ogra> ah, good
[14:33] <ogra> GrueMaster, given that we wont build installer images this time, your testing will likely become a bit different
[14:33] <GrueMaster> Had I known we were going to look at SRU bugs, I would have compiled a more detailed list.
[14:33] <ogra> if you work out test plans, try to take that into account
[14:33] <GrueMaster> Yes, I understand that.
[14:33] <ogra> you will dd a fully installed system to SD with the new images that are coming
[14:34] <ogra> though oem-config might need special attention here
[14:34] <GrueMaster> So, I have a new server that is currently actively mirroring ports.  I also am mirroring cdimage.ubuntu.com for daily image builds.
[14:34] <ogra> great
[14:34] <NCommander> nifty
[14:34] <GrueMaster> That will help immensly.
[14:34] <ogra> our images will likely also be a lot bigger
[14:34] <zyga> sorry I had a call
[14:35] <ogra> so that should help you a lot
[14:35] <zyga> ogra, not really, I'd like to see what you do currently and how it fits into our plans, perhaps there is some common effort or piece of technology
[14:35] <GrueMaster> As to actual image testing, daily (as long as there is a new image to test) boot testing, then into deep testing with installed apps & some app testing from main.
[14:35] <ogra> zyga, well, see above, i'm not sure how comparable our images will be to yours
[14:36] <ogra> GrueMaster, oem-config testing too
[14:36] <GrueMaster> Give me a honey-do list, and I'll get a round to-it.
[14:36] <ogra> the image will be preinstalled, extend itself to the full SD card size on first boot and fire up oem-config to set upü the user etc
[14:36] <zyga> ogra, so all testing you do is manual, correct? (unless I missed something)
[14:37] <ogra> so the special code that resizes needs special attention as well as the setup
[14:37] <ogra> zyga, yes, its mainly for milestone tests
[14:37] <GrueMaster> What is the plan for maximum image size ?
[14:37]  * zyga has to go away now, darn
[14:37] <ogra> since for daily the archive is unreliable anyway
[14:37] <NCommander> GrueMaster: probably 1GiB ish
[14:37] <ogra> GrueMaster, we dont have one ...
[14:37] <zyga> I'll read the backlog when I get back from lunch
[14:37] <NCommander> compressed
[14:37] <ogra> 1G would be nice to have
[14:38] <GrueMaster> 1G is easy.  Leaves room for language support in the image.
[14:38] <NCommander> GrueMaster: not quite, there is no squashfs
[14:38] <ogra> GrueMaster, the plan is to compress out all spare space and then to extend the system partition to max size of the SD on first boot
[14:38] <ogra> we dont know yet how well it will be compressed
[14:39] <ogra> there wont be language support beyond english
[14:39] <ogra> that will be installed by oem-config in case a network connection exists
[14:39] <ogra> if not it has to stay english
[14:39] <GrueMaster> No squashfs?  I would recommend it as it makes for easier recovery methods.
[14:39] <ogra> no
[14:40] <ogra> we dont have an installer
[14:40] <ogra> no squashfs
[14:40] <NCommander> GrueMaster: this is a completely new type of image.
[14:40] <ogra> its and "oem" image :)
[14:40] <GrueMaster> Not really.  This is similar to a Moblin 1.0 image.
[14:40] <ogra> what you dd to the SD card is your install
[14:40] <ogra> right
[14:40] <GrueMaster> And Moblin 1.0 used squashfs.
[14:40] <ogra> its in some areas similar to a moblin image
[14:41] <ogra> you cant use squashfs in a sane way
[14:41] <GrueMaster> I'm just suggesting that we can still use squashfs.
[14:41] <ogra> for installed systems
[14:41] <NCommander> folks
[14:41] <GrueMaster> No?
[14:41] <ogra> no
[14:41] <NCommander> lets take this offline and bring it back later
[14:41] <ogra> right
[14:41] <ogra> lets move on
[14:41] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:42] <NCommander> Nothing to report, archive still is in too much churn to really see whats broken
[14:42]  * ogra sees libnih, apr, eglibc, kde4libs
[14:42] <ogra> the first three definately need some research
[14:42] <ogra> well, libnih and eglibc
[14:42] <NCommander> ogra: crap, those must be new from last night :-/
[14:42] <ogra> they are there since about two weeks
[14:42] <ogra> eglibc failed with the first upload
[14:42]  * NCommander sighs and thinks he's gone blind
[14:43] <ogra> libnih failed short before uds
[14:43] <NCommander> is doko sitll maintaining the armel toolchain?
[14:43] <ogra> i would hope so
[14:43] <ogra> asac, ?? °°
[14:43] <ogra> ^^
[14:43] <ogra> do you know ?
[14:43] <asac> yes, for now he is our contact
[14:43] <ogra> ok
[14:44] <ogra> asac, do you know if anyone from your lside will care for things like eglibc ?
[14:44] <ogra> given that its quite essential to have it build
[14:44] <ogra> or do we need to take action here
[14:45] <asac> same as for toolchain. things might change as we move on, but atm its doko
[14:45] <ogra> ok
[14:45] <doko> the eglibc build failure can be ignored for now
[14:45] <ogra> ok
[14:45] <ogra> that leaves libnih
[14:45] <ogra> NCommander, dyfet, can one of you contact Keybuk ?
[14:46] <ogra> iirc we had a similar timeout issue before with it
[14:46] <ogra> (its hitting the 150 minutes barrier)
[14:46] <ogra> not sure why though
[14:46] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
[14:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
[14:47] <NCommander> anything else to bring up?
[14:47] <ogra> not here
[14:47] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[14:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[14:47] <NCommander> ogra: I have livecd-rootfs voodoo for you
[14:47]  * ogra hangs his head in shame for not having the spec ready yet
[14:48] <NCommander> ogra: which spec?
[14:48] <ogra> NCommander, i saw, i need to go over it a bit deeper ... i'm not really happy with your getopts stuff
[14:48] <ogra> NCommander, for the image
[14:48] <NCommander> ogra: lamont thought it was fine, but feel free to abuse it :-)
[14:48] <ogra> if lamont says its fine i'm fine too :)
[14:49] <NCommander> ogra: BuildLiveCD is a manual merge anyway on the buildds
[14:49] <ogra> i'm not such a big fan of getopts in shell scripts where you can solve it with a simple case
[14:49] <NCommander> ogra: the simple code was causing my eyes to bleed
[14:49] <ogra> its what we use everywhere
[14:49] <NCommander> livecd.sh uses getopts
[14:49] <ogra> since case is fast and doesnt require external deps
[14:50] <NCommander> er
[14:50] <NCommander> getopts is a bash builtin
[14:50] <ogra> yes, thats historically from infinity
[14:50] <ogra> nope not that one
[14:50] <NCommander> mcasadevall@daybreak:/home/buildd/src/chroot-scripts$ which getopts
[14:50] <NCommander> mcasadevall@daybreak:/home/buildd/src/chroot-scripts$ getopts
[14:50] <NCommander> getopts: usage: getopts optstring name [arg]
[14:50] <NCommander> Its not a built-in?
[14:50] <ogra> getopt is builtin
[14:51] <ogra> and getopts is a standlone prog iirc
[14:51] <NCommander> ogra: you've got it backwards
[14:51] <NCommander> getopt is standalone, getopts is built in
[14:51] <NCommander> (do which getopt)
[14:51] <ogra> hmm, k
[14:51] <ogra> anyway, if lamont is happy i'm happy too
[14:51] <NCommander> woo, we're all happy!
[14:52] <ogra> i'll write up the spec before next meeting
[14:52] <ogra> so we have work items etc
[14:52] <NCommander> cool
[14:52] <NCommander> anything else on this topic?
[14:52] <ogra> btw, you skipped the work item review
[14:52] <NCommander> ogra: bit hard to do it if the burndown charts are broken
[14:52] <ogra> we have at least three specs and i know persia was planning on more
[14:53] <ogra> they arent broken
[14:53] <NCommander> the main page is empty
[14:53] <ogra> we dont have any specs submitted yet
[14:53] <NCommander> Oh
[14:53] <ogra> davidm needs to approve etc etc
[14:53] <NCommander> [topic] Work Item Review
[14:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Work Item Review
[14:53] <ogra> but indeed we need to have them written and workitems added etc first
[14:53] <ogra> so i have three to add here
[14:54] <ogra> one is the rootfs building without root permissions
[14:54] <ogra> one is upanel
[14:54] <ogra> and one is the new image
[14:54] <ogra> does anyone else have any specs that will be on the tracker ?
[14:54]  * pitti waves
[14:54] <ogra> as i said i know persia had some planned
[14:55] <NCommander> arm softbootloader
[14:55] <kees> heya piit
[14:55] <ogra> but i dont know which
[14:55] <NCommander> improved arm subnarch
[14:55] <kees> er, pitti
[14:55] <ogra> NCommander, does that make any sense ? if we only support one arch ?
[14:55] <dyfet> while it was done under the arm track, I am not sure where the ofono spec will be under...
[14:55] <ogra> (softbootloader i mean)
[14:55] <ogra> dyfet, arm i guess
[14:55] <ogra> dyfet, talk to asac about it
[14:56] <dyfet> ogra: ok, let's assume that for now then...and I will discuss with asac separately
[14:56] <ogra> NCommander, also did cjwatson have a look at your plans to change the installer for subarch ?
[14:57] <NCommander> ogra: not yet, will do this week
[14:57] <ogra> great
[14:57] <ogra> so lets make sure we have them given to davidm by next meeting for approval
[14:58] <ogra> can you make an action for all of us to have all specs ready for the tracker by next week ?
[14:58] <NCommander> [action] Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
[14:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
[14:58] <NCommander> done
[14:58] <ogra> preferct
[14:58] <NCommander> Ok, we're short on time :-/
[14:58] <ogra> or so
[14:58] <ogra> right, but we're done, no ?
[14:58] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[14:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[14:59] <NCommander> I wanted to discuss changing the meeting time
[14:59] <ogra> ..
[14:59] <NCommander> but we don't have time this meeting
[14:59] <ogra> right and no persia around
[14:59] <ogra> lets defer that
[14:59] <NCommander> so if you have a suggestion for a new meeting time, email it to me, and we'll vote next week
[14:59] <NCommander> I think that's eventhing
[14:59] <ogra> ++
[14:59] <NCommander> g'night folks
[14:59] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:59.
[14:59] <sabdfl> nicely timed
[14:59] <NCommander> ogra: one more + and you'll disconnect
[14:59] <ogra> :)
[14:59] <asac> heh ;)
[15:00] <sabdfl> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is sabdfl.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <Keybuk> Hey
[15:00] <sabdfl> howdy scott
[15:00] <kees> hello
[15:00] <cjwatson> hi
[15:00] <sabdfl> mdz around?
[15:01] <pitti> o/
[15:01] <mdz> sabdfl: yes
[15:01] <sabdfl> hi pitti, hi matt
[15:01] <sabdfl> a full house
[15:01] <mdz> I was just sending you an SMS
[15:02] <sabdfl> i look forward to it :-)
[15:02] <mdz> I aborted
[15:02] <mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:02] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Action review
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
[15:02] <sabdfl> ScottK, Riddell, any process on KDE update policy?
[15:02] <pitti> oh, isn't that the agenda from last time?
[15:03] <cjwatson> I suck across the board on actions.  I'll get to at least the meeting minutes this week
[15:03] <sabdfl> hmm
[15:03] <sabdfl> to pitti's point, i think it is, yes
[15:03] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/Current has the actions from last time, FTR
[15:04] <sabdfl> ok
[15:04] <sabdfl> pitti: Canonical patent licenses question, settled?
[15:04] <pitti> got a reply from Amanda and replied to Reinhard and tb@
[15:04] <pitti> so, done
[15:04] <sabdfl> and soyuz sync-source?
[15:05] <pitti> my branch landed
[15:05] <cjwatson> regarding the Kubuntu unseeded package set thing there, we discussed this at UDS and I think the conclusion was to do something different
[15:05] <pitti> and it's rolled out, so done
[15:05] <cjwatson> oh good, I can stop explicitly saying -S unstable then
[15:05] <sabdfl> and MoM is marked done in the agenda, thanks cjwatson
[15:05] <cjwatson> yep
[15:06] <sabdfl> so, does the absence of a new agenda mean there are no new items? should i resent this agenda to standing items?
[15:06] <Keybuk> I added items today
[15:06] <mdz> also, the chair should scan the mailing list as noted on the agenda
[15:06] <pitti> There is the "release schedule" mail from Robbie
[15:06] <Keybuk> Status of sparc and ia64 ports, and status web page (Scott)
[15:06] <Keybuk> is new
[15:07] <pitti> I guess the case is pretty much closed for maverick, though :)
[15:07] <sabdfl> ok
[15:07] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] 10.10.10
[15:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  10.10.10
[15:07] <sabdfl> robbie makes good data
[15:07] <sabdfl> there are a couple of useful insights, i think:
[15:07] <sabdfl>  - equal weeks don't make equal cycles
[15:08] <mdz> to repeat what I said on the list:
[15:08] <mdz> For my part, I like the idea of balancing out the amount of "actual work"
[15:08] <mdz> time we have in each cycle, though I think that aligning with GNOME *does*
[15:08] <mdz> matter to us.
[15:08] <sabdfl>  - releasing very late in the month is potentially hairy
[15:08] <sabdfl> agreed on the GNOME front
[15:08] <sabdfl> can we separate those two, and start with the nuanced cycle bit?
[15:09] <mdz> I also think this is a release team decision, not a tech board one
[15:09] <sabdfl> input from the tech board was solicited and is welcome
[15:09] <mdz> I'm sure input from the TB is welcome, but the release team needs to be a part of it
[15:09] <cjwatson> ... I think the release team might well punt on this given in particular that we'll be changing RM this cycle
[15:09] <pitti> so, Robbie's proposal basically means to release the fall cycle earlier, and by and large keep the sprint cycle, right?
[15:10] <pitti> i. e. in the spring cycle we would have a better change of fitting gnome x.y.1
[15:10] <pitti> which is nice because LTSes are in spring
[15:10] <sabdfl> +1
[15:10] <cjwatson> we have certainly noticed an "autumn cycles tend to produce worse releases" pattern in the past
[15:10] <sabdfl> i read it as "second week in october, third week in april"
[15:10] <pitti> and for fall we would then have to SRU the lot (or cherrypick)
[15:10] <cjwatson> I don't know that any of us had thought hard about the precise causes of that
[15:11] <Keybuk> pitti: I did a bit of digging, and found that we've tended to cherry pick the bug fixes in anyway before the .1
[15:11] <Keybuk> at least all the ones that had LP bugs filed
[15:11] <Keybuk> so that didn't worry me so much
[15:12] <pitti> Keybuk: for lucid, yes; since we knew that we got late
[15:12] <pitti> we did a couple of git snapshots before
[15:12] <pitti> as I said, it's doable, just takes some more packaging work
[15:12] <kees> I remain on the fence.  moving up from the end of the month is good, but losing time on the release makes me uncomfortable, especially due to the disconnect with the previous cadence.
[15:12] <pitti> so, Robbie's proposal sounds fine to me, and has a better balance between the cycles, too
[15:12] <Keybuk> it would worry me if we released before GNOME's .0 though ;-)  but that's also why I suggested we set our cycle early, to resist the urge for GNOME to slip their cycle :p
[15:13] <kees> I do like equalizing the devel time.
[15:13] <cjwatson> my main position is, I think, still that we're sending a pretty mixed message about cadence; it does help that we're trying to establish a future rhythm but what happens when the next marketing opportunity comes along? :-)
[15:13] <pitti> equalizing> unless we actually want to keep the schema of having slightly more time for LTS cycles?
[15:14] <pitti> marketing opportunity> how did we miss releasing dapper on the 6.06.2006? :-)
[15:14] <sabdfl> LTS cycles get the winter break, for better or worse
[15:14] <sabdfl> pitti: i think certain remixes might have ;-)
[15:15] <pitti> sabdfl: it already was 6.06, after all
[15:15] <mdz> I think we're spending too much time rationalizing this
[15:15] <cjwatson> the historical pattern that autumn releases tend to be worse seems to suggest that more development time => suckier
[15:15] <mdz> robbie has put a lot of work into finding a reason to do what sabdfl wants to do
[15:15] <sabdfl> well, let's not spend even more time on it now, then :-p
[15:15] <mdz> exactly
[15:16] <mdz> I could come up with 10 reasons for or against
[15:16] <pitti> cjwatson: I seriously doubt that it's just due to the time; we just tend to introduce more structural changes before and after LTSes
[15:16] <mdz> this isn't a decision which is motivated by a desire to improve the release process, so let's not cloud the issue
[15:16] <kees> I can produce no good technical reason to oppose the date change, so I support it.
[15:18] <sabdfl> are there any objections to framing our cadence as "2nd week in october, third week in april"? to avoid the last week issue?
[15:18] <mdz> I frankly don't see an issue with the last week
[15:18] <pitti> mdz ++; it never hurt us and it gave us a good alightment with gnome
[15:19] <sabdfl> it always makes me nervous, but it's not actually been a problem yet
[15:19] <kees> it offers no way to slip without changing the release version.  :)
[15:19] <mdz> kees: sure it does
[15:19] <sabdfl> mdz: would you see a problem with releasing 11.04 on, say May 2nd if a wart crops up late?
[15:19] <mdz> we choose the release numbers; they don't choose us
[15:19] <mdz> sabdfl: not even slightly
[15:19] <sabdfl> it would make for very, very bad publicity
[15:19] <mdz> being late would make for bad publicity
[15:20] <sabdfl> i think some of us are more sensitive to the potential for headlines than others
[15:20] <mdz> but we need to be pragmatic; problems do turn up and sometimes being late is the best option
[15:20] <cjwatson> the only issue I see with the last week is the cost-of-bandwidth thing
[15:20] <mdz> the release number is really a minor concern
[15:20] <sabdfl> that's true. but it would amplify the headline.
[15:20] <cjwatson> I don't see an operational concern, given the number of times that we've had late problems and managed to deal with them one way or another
[15:21] <sabdfl> agreed with cjwatson, though, there's a real benefit to fitting the release deluge inside a month
[15:21] <mdz> even if we did want to change it, that's a repeatable process at this point
[15:21] <cjwatson> yes, it puts stress on the release team, but given our structure the stress is not significantly reduced by the difference between one-day-late and one-day-late-and-next-month
[15:21] <cjwatson> we know that one-day-late is a Very Bad Thing regardless of the dates
[15:23] <cjwatson> and it depends on how the calendar works out; 24th of April (say) wouldn't be a significant problem
[15:23] <sabdfl> true
[15:23] <sabdfl> but third week would always have slack for the bandwidth tail to... tail
[15:23] <cjwatson> I don't know that we need to make the definition as complex as that of the date of Easter though :-)
[15:24] <cjwatson> I would rather that we had a little discretion either way, and were up-front about that
[15:24] <mdz> can we rescope this discussion to the decision at hand? we don't need to re-engineer the release schedule in general in this meeting, just decide on what to do about *this* release
[15:24] <Keybuk> In a sense, since Robbie has already changed the schedule on the wiki page, and the Google Calendar
[15:25] <Keybuk> the decision is should the TB overrule him and restore the original Release Schedule
[15:25] <Keybuk> no?
[15:25] <mdz> Keybuk: no
[15:25] <mdz> he was very explicit about calling that a proposal, a draft, etc., and he also directly asked the TB to decide
[15:25] <Keybuk> yes, but he's since made the Proposal the Schedule
[15:26] <sabdfl> to weigh in. you made the point that 10.10.10 is a marketing issue, and the marketing team have also weighed in.
[15:26] <mdz> and the release team is apparently abstaining
[15:26] <pitti> FWIW, I have almost no problem with 10.10.10, given the rather special gnome situation this time
[15:26] <sabdfl> mdz: the reason i'm pursuing the multi-release perspective, is to address your point about GNOME sync
[15:27] <sabdfl> i think we should take the opportunity now to publish our release dates through till 12.04
[15:27] <mdz> sabdfl: yes, I did. I also asked what we will do with this marketing opportunity to make it worthwhile
[15:27] <sabdfl> want to settle this current matter, then take that on
[15:27] <Keybuk> sabdfl: Robbie has already done so, and announced them
[15:27] <Keybuk> (as drafts)
[15:27] <mdz> since changing the date doesn't seem like it will make a big splash
[15:28] <cjwatson> it seems cute but I don't see it making a difference with people on the other side of the chasm
[15:29] <cjwatson> and I still think the Sunday thing is going to be an operational issue
[15:29] <cjwatson> is our webmaster going to be available on Sunday, for instance?
[15:30] <pitti> we'd need to have the images ready on Friday, I think; we can't expect the full release team and testers to work over the weekend; just pushing the announcement and the web page
[15:30] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
[15:30] <Keybuk> Robbie has published the release schedule
[15:30] <cjwatson> yeah, but we know that that last bit involves fairly significant coordination
[15:30] <Keybuk> this release schedule is *not* marked as a draft, and has the release date as 10.10.10
[15:30] <Keybuk> there is no objection from the release team
[15:30] <Keybuk> (that I can see)
[15:30] <cjwatson> in practice, it takes a couple of hours of quite intensive work
[15:31] <Keybuk> and the consensus that I'm hearing from this board appears to be that it's either not this board's decision, or the board as a whole doesn't hate it
[15:31] <sabdfl> our webmaster says he's up for it, and it sounds like a cool plan :-)
[15:31] <Keybuk> so I suggest we respect Robbie's decision to publish the release schedule
[15:31] <mdz> Keybuk: I'm not seeing your point. are you saying there's no decision to be made and we can go home?
[15:31] <Keybuk> and move on to the next topic
[15:31] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm saying someone has already made the decision, so we don't need to
[15:32] <mdz> Keybuk: that I agree with
[15:32] <sabdfl> ok then. 10.10.10 it is.
[15:32] <Keybuk> nothing in our board's "constitution" states that once somebody has forwarded us a question, they can't decide on their own answer
[15:32] <mdz> but those someones have made a point of bringing the issue to the TB anyway
[15:32] <Keybuk> this is on the agenda because of robbie, and robbie has clearly made up his own mind ;)
[15:32] <sabdfl> and in doing so, prompted valuable discussion
[15:33] <Keybuk> yeah, I fully agree the discussion is valuable
[15:33] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Varying the cadence for slightly longer April cycles
[15:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Varying the cadence for slightly longer April cycles
[15:33] <Keybuk> I don't want to set a dangerous precedent that the board overrules people without a stated objection :)
[15:34] <cjwatson> next time, perhaps we could have the discussion before announcements at UDS? ;-)
[15:34] <sabdfl> i heard two objections: one, that we should sync with GNOME, and two, that a nuanced cadence weakens our sotry around cadence in general
[15:34] <sabdfl> do folks think that consulting GNOME now, and publishing a schedule for the next two years, is feasible?
[15:34] <mdz> cjwatson: or skip discussion altogether
[15:35] <cjwatson> consulting them is feasible, but I don't know that expecting external projects not to have their own reasons for temporary variation over the course of two years is feasible
[15:35] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I think so; we have a draft for the next two years, and jcastro is a GNOME Board member, so would know who to consult with
[15:35] <Keybuk> at least then they'd know our plans, so would be able to take their own decisions with a little light
[15:36] <pitti> sabdfl: schedule for next two years should be fully possible, and Robbie by and large worked those out already
[15:36] <sabdfl> would GNOME be sensitive to the winter break argument too?
[15:36] <sabdfl> i'm wqondering if the dynamic might be different for them, in that regard?
[15:36] <pitti> I'm happy to take the action of asking the GNOME RM about this change
[15:36] <Keybuk> and I think we'd want to be flexible enough that should they have a strong reason to break their cycle (and ours), we would be willing to change ours
[15:36] <sabdfl> perhaps "we get MORE done over holidays"?
[15:36] <Keybuk> the release schedule shouldn't be a rock to dash ourselves against
[15:36] <sabdfl> agreed
[15:36] <mdz> I haven't looked at the 11.10 or 12.4 schedules
[15:37] <mdz> but 11.4 looks OK to me
[15:37] <sabdfl> can i propose we approach them to have the discussion, taking Robbie's data, and seeing if they have similar or divergent forces at work?
[15:37] <sabdfl> with a view that we can, if the stars align, publish both our schedules for this next two year cycle?
[15:38] <Keybuk> I imagine right now they're more worried about their current release's schedule, and how ridiculously far behind they are with it <g>
[15:38] <sabdfl> this would have a number of benefits
[15:38] <Keybuk> but it would be a good conversation to have, yes
[15:38] <sabdfl> one of which would be being able to book UDS venues further in advance
[15:38] <sabdfl> we struggle, when the dates are set with less than 12 months notice, at our scale
[15:39] <mdz> I think that's more because we change the venue every time
[15:39] <cjwatson> the UDS dates already seem to have several weeks of slack either way, from recent memory?
[15:39] <cjwatson> though I agree that it would be nice to have them a bit more consistent relative to the release
[15:40] <sabdfl> repeating the venue would be appreciated by the organising team, i think, if folks are up for that. but that's a separate topic.
[15:41] <sabdfl> would Jorge be the right person to task with opening up that dialogue?
[15:41] <cjwatson> I thought that was the organising team's decision :)
[15:41] <mdz> cjwatson: they tend to get a lot of "input" into that decision
[15:42] <Keybuk> does anyone really mind if UDS tends to repeat venues, if the venues are good?
[15:42] <mdz> silbs has proposed selecting the same venues for a couple of years to come, and I think that's wise
[15:42]  * pitti notes that selecting venues isn't really TB matter :)
[15:43] <mdz> pitti: it is, however, something that needs to be considered when setting dates for UDS
[15:43] <sabdfl> [VOTE] TB invites Jorge to work with GNOME to see if a release schedule till 12.04 is feasible, and if the dynamics around April releases are similar
[15:43] <MootBot> Please vote on:  TB invites Jorge to work with GNOME to see if a release schedule till 12.04 is feasible, and if the dynamics around April releases are similar.
[15:43] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:43] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[15:43]  * persia holds the faint hope that the lack of venue preselection means UDS might happen in Asia once in a while
[15:43] <jcastro> I can take that action to GNOME
[15:44] <maco> persia: :)
[15:45] <Keybuk> +1
[15:45] <MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:45] <pitti> +1
[15:45] <MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:45] <kees> +1
[15:45] <Keybuk> (on the basis jcastro just said it was ok :p)
[15:45] <MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:45] <mdz> +1
[15:45] <MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[15:45] <sabdfl> +1
[15:45] <MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[15:46] <sabdfl> [ENDVOTE]
[15:46] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[15:46] <sabdfl> ok
[15:46] <sabdfl> if we can, that gets us a roadmap to 12.04, and opens up the possibility for planning UDS and other sprints further in advance
[15:47] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Sparc and IA64 status and web page
[15:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sparc and IA64 status and web page
[15:47] <sabdfl> scott?
[15:47] <Keybuk> right, just collecting notes
[15:47] <Keybuk> at UDS, there was a session on the current status of the Sparc and ia64 ports
[15:47] <cjwatson> sorry, I missed the vote above; I'm +1 on that as well
[15:47] <Keybuk> I agreed to bring the result of that discussion to the TB for a formal vote
[15:47] <Keybuk> sparc is in a poor state, it has no current maintainer, and there are numerous issues with the toolchain and kernel such that it basically does not boot, etc.
[15:48] <Keybuk> the recommendation from the discussion is that the TB should send a general mail announcing this fact, and that should a maintainer team not come forwards to work on it, the port should be dropped at Maverick Feature Freeze
[15:48] <pitti> I should add that sparc caused quite some extra effort durign lucid for manually removing uninstallable binaries, cleaning up NBS/uninstallables, etc.
[15:48] <Keybuk> ia64 is in a better state, it's largely good, just needs an active maintainer team
[15:48] <Keybuk> so in the same mail we should encourage people to work on it (but won't drop it right now if they don't)
[15:49] <cjwatson> I'm always very cautious about dropping ports, but if we give clear and sufficient notice (as the plan seems to be) then I'm less concerned
[15:49] <Keybuk> also I agreed to put together a wiki page summarises the current state of the ports, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchitectureStatus
[15:49] <Keybuk> so, does the TB agree with this approach, and if so, can we vote to approve the result of the discussion?
[15:49] <mdz> I think it's important that we not underestimate the cost of ports
[15:50] <mdz> a port which virtually nobody uses, even if it has an active maintainer team, is not a net benefit to the project
[15:50] <kees> do we have any download stats for the ports?
[15:50] <mdz> the rest of us do trip over it in various ways, e.g. archive admin as pitti mentioned
[15:50] <cjwatson> there are also benefits to ports which are easy to forget
[15:50] <pitti> powerpc is still fairly popular, judging by bug reports that I got
[15:50] <mdz> kees: yes
[15:51] <cjwatson> I'm not disagreeing on the costs, but it isn't all negative
[15:51] <Keybuk> pitti: powerpc was not discussed, the port is in a good state
[15:51] <mdz> when I want a quick summary, I usually look at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[15:51] <Keybuk> (has active maintenance, etc.)
[15:51] <mdz> though we can get additional data if that's desired
[15:51] <pitti> Keybuk: right, that referred to "port that nobody uses"
[15:51] <sabdfl> is "armel" a special port of arm, or is it the primary one?
[15:51] <persia> The primary one
[15:52] <persia> ARM Extended ABI, Little Endian (I believe)
[15:52] <mdz> ubuntu-10.04-desktop-ia64.iso	has 3 downloads, and I believe there are two seed servers
[15:52] <Keybuk> "el" being someone's silly idea of a joke
[15:52] <mdz> compared to 5377 for i386
[15:52] <Keybuk> though isn't el big-endian technically? :p
[15:52] <sabdfl> mdz: i was going to ask for the picture version of that :-)
[15:53] <cjwatson> sabdfl: "arm" is the old abi, and the new one required a new architecture name
[15:53] <cjwatson> we've never had an arm architecture in Ubuntu
[15:53] <mdz> sabdfl: just imagine a grain of sand in the irish sea
[15:53] <sabdfl> :-)
[15:53] <Keybuk> radioactive sand?
[15:54] <sabdfl> i have a beach on the irish sea close by. there is no sand. there is, in fact, mostly rotting seaweed :-)
[15:54] <mdz> we also build kubuntu, xubuntu, server and alternate versions for ia64
[15:55] <sabdfl> Keybuk: what would qualify for "maintainer team" for IA64, in your mind?
[15:55] <mdz> just in case the one user wants more choice
[15:55] <persia> There are a number of active Ubuntu developers who run ia64: it may be worth seeking greater input on which flavours they run.
[15:55] <sabdfl> i've heard no objections to putting SPARC on notice, some concern about not doing the same for IA64
[15:56] <Keybuk> sabdfl: one or more people contributing patches to the toolchain and kernel, and actively helping with FTBFS issues
[15:56] <Keybuk> the concern in the discussion about putting ia64 on notice was
[15:56] <Keybuk> (a) lamont was there :p
[15:56] <mdz> I volunteer to get download data for both ia64 and sparc
[15:56] <Keybuk> (b) ia64 builds tend to pick up bugs that affected amd64 at runtime
[15:56] <sabdfl> the latter is interesting
[15:56] <kees> for "b" I though those scripts had been bolted to the amd64 buildds too now?
[15:57] <mdz> Keybuk: what kind of bugs?
[15:57] <Keybuk> kees: the theory was that building things on ia64, with its stricter ABI, means that certain runtime failures get caught at build time
[15:57] <Keybuk> alignment issues and whatnot
[15:57] <persia> kees: Only based on some common issues, but not all cases.
[15:57] <mdz> sounds like something that compiler or linker flags would do more effectively than a port
[15:57] <slangasek> missing prototypes causing implicit pointer->int casts
[15:57] <kees> okay
[15:57] <cjwatson> ia64 and amd64 both have 64-bit pointer and 32-bit int
[15:58] <kees> (but if no-one is looking at ia64 failures, it doesn't have any value...)
[15:58] <slangasek> and yes, my understanding is that the build-time check (which is a build log filter, not a compiler feature) is enabled now on am64 too
[15:58] <mdz> -Werror=implicit-function-declaration I believe
[15:58] <slangasek> if it isn't, it ought to be done ASAP
[15:58] <cjwatson> if you have the implicit casts slangasek mentions (which are a very common bug), then they completely hose ia64 because it tends to scatter pointers liberally through the whole 64-bit space
[15:58] <cjwatson> but amd64 only notices sometimes, because its pointers tend to be packed down in the bottom 4GB when possible
[15:58] <cjwatson> so you only notice once you start using enough memory
[15:59] <mdz> let's call it an "accidental feature"
[15:59] <cjwatson> we've caught quite a few problems due to ia64 binaries failing during builds, AIUI
[15:59] <cjwatson> mdz: this kind of accidental feature is rife with ports
[15:59] <mdz> it doesn't sound like a reason to maintain an entire port
[15:59] <sabdfl> mdz: you mean, build images?
[15:59] <mdz> sabdfl: I mean, compile packages
[15:59] <cjwatson> the reason I support a reasonably rich (but not to Debian or NetBSD levels!) port ecosystem is that each port we have tends to catch an interesting set of problems of its own
[15:59] <slangasek> mdz: -Werror=implicit-function-declaration is overly broad; lamont has a script that greps the logs and detects the explicit combination of missing declaration + implicit cast
[15:59] <mdz> though there are certainly intermediate levels we could consider
[15:59] <cjwatson> and then, when we have to bootstrap a new port, we don't find ourselves needing to fix everything at once
[16:00] <mdz> like compiling the packages and throwing them away
[16:00] <mdz> if we just want build testing
[16:00] <cjwatson> I don't think this is a reason to maintain all the CD images we do maintain, say
[16:00] <sabdfl> ok
[16:00] <cjwatson> there are some explicit casts which break ia64 but aren't caught by compiler flags, btw
[16:01] <cjwatson> IIRC it used to be fairly common to stuff pointers into ints for glib callbacks
[16:01] <sabdfl> do we need to vote, or can we simply support keybuk's proposal, modulo mdz's desire to set the bar quite high for maintainership of IA64?
[16:01] <sabdfl> there are no community bugs, ftr
[16:01] <cjwatson> I'm entirely happy with Keybuk's proposal
[16:01] <sabdfl> me too
[16:01] <mdz> I would like to suggest a different tone
[16:02] <Keybuk> I'd like to find out whether the board feels that ia64 should suffer the same deadline?
[16:02] <mdz> the message sounded like "someone please step up to maintain this thing because we want to keep it"
[16:02] <mdz> while I think it should be "we propose to drop this because it isn't adding enough value to the project; if you have a good reason to keep it AND are willing to step up and maintain it, please get in touch"
[16:03] <sabdfl> what i heard was "building the packages is useful, publishing them is useful to quite a lot of people, but making images turns it into an official exercise we aren't comfortable with"
[16:03] <Keybuk> I'll take an action to draft that mail, and send it to the TB list for review there
[16:04] <sabdfl> +1 to mdz's language, from me
[16:04] <mdz> Keybuk: did hppa come up at all?
[16:04] <cjwatson> there's probably no reason, incidentally, why people with ia64/sparc needs couldn't deal with installations by way of netboot installation
[16:04] <Keybuk> mdz: hppa is not a port
[16:04] <kees> +1 on language. +1 on sparc schedule, +1 on at least dropping ia64 image builds.
[16:04] <cjwatson> mdz: why would it?  we removed it
[16:04] <mdz> oh, right
[16:05] <mdz> for 9.10
[16:05] <Keybuk> zombie hppa?
[16:05] <persia> It was touched briefly in the session, but nobody wanted to consider reviving it.
[16:05] <mdz> Keybuk: no, just looking cross-eyed at the list of isos
[16:05] <Keybuk> it rose from the dead crying "BRRRAAAAAAAAAINS"
[16:05] <sabdfl> :-)
[16:05] <sabdfl> ok
[16:05] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Community bugs
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Community bugs
[16:05] <sabdfl> there are none
[16:05] <sabdfl> any comments?
[16:06] <Keybuk> I am happy with there being no bugs
[16:06] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[16:06] <sabdfl> 3
[16:06] <sabdfl> 2
[16:06] <persia> There was a session about flavour testing at UDS: would the TB have an interest in being a piont of approval for flavour definitions?
[16:06] <sabdfl> i'd like that on my business card, yes
[16:06] <persia> (the alternative being to delegate entirely to the release team(
[16:06] <sabdfl> piont of approval
[16:07] <sabdfl> that'll get them wondering
[16:07] <Keybuk> I looked that up, before I realised it was a typo
[16:07] <persia> Sorry.  New laptop this week, with very different keyboard.
[16:07] <sabdfl> flavours being.... ?
[16:07] <pitti> persia: hm, not sure what you mean; xubuntu et al are already on the iso tracker, being tested, etc.?
[16:07] <pitti> although these aren't called "flavour" usually
[16:07] <persia> pitti: Right.  So if someone wants a new one, is this a TB item, or just up to the release team?
[16:08] <persia> What aren't called "flavour"?
[16:08] <sabdfl> i'd say release team
[16:08] <pitti> persia: "derivatives"?
[16:08] <pitti> just want to ensure that we talk about the same thing
[16:09] <persia> pitti: That language was *supposed* to change in feisty, but communication has been weak :)
[16:09] <cjwatson> well, speaking of which, Lubuntu approached us asking for hosting
[16:09] <persia> But yeah, same thing.
[16:09] <persia> That would be a current example, yes.
[16:09] <cjwatson> for the time being, I've said that we are too pressed for space on cdimage to be able to offer hosting, but that we could perhaps e.g. accommodate them on the ISO tracker as a partial compromise
[16:09] <persia> another likely to approach in maverick would be liquid/kubuntu-mobile (depending on integration efforts)
[16:10] <pitti> if/once we can drop some ports images, we might have more
[16:10] <cjwatson> but if it came to full-blown hosting, I'd expect to be bringing it to the TB
[16:10] <sabdfl> i think the bar has to be pretty high for us to provide hosting
[16:10] <persia> images aside: there's changes in lots of other places as well.
[16:10] <persia> (LP, cocoplum, livecd-rootfs, debian-installer, ubuntu-cdimage, etc.)
[16:10]  * kees has to go to another appointment...
[16:10] <cjwatson> yes, full hosting implies things such as their development processes being integrated with Ubuntu
[16:11] <sabdfl> persia: topic for next TB
[16:11] <slangasek> cjwatson: accomodating them on the ISO tracker w/o having image respins under the control of the release team on antimony poses some practical workflow problems for milestones
[16:11] <sabdfl> which will be chaired by....
[16:11] <Keybuk> I feel like I haven't chaired in a while
[16:11] <cjwatson> slangasek: yeah, I know - it was a suggestion rather than a decision, and I'm open to exploring it
[16:11] <sabdfl> alphabetical rotation, wasn't it?
[16:11] <persia> If it's a TB thing, then I'll draft it that way, and submit for review, and if the TB decides to delegate, we can change it.  Thanks :)
[16:12] <Keybuk> I think I was on leave, when I was supposed to chair, so it went from kees->pitti
[16:12] <sabdfl> ok, Keybuk it is
[16:12] <sabdfl> #endmeeting
[16:12] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:12.
[16:12] <sabdfl> thanks all and sorry for the overrun
[16:13] <pitti> thanks all
[17:58]  * manjo waves 
[17:59]  * manjo pokes cking 
[17:59]  * vanhoof looks in
[17:59] <cking> manjo, eh?
[17:59]  * cking here
[17:59]  * smb drags himself in
[17:59] <apw> Roll Call
[17:59]  * ogasawara waves
[17:59]  * jjohansen1 waves
[17:59]  * manjo waves
[17:59]  * cking waves
[17:59]  * tgardner is here
[17:59] <apw> #startmeeting
[17:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is apw.
[17:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:59] <mpoirier> good morning all
[18:00] <kamal> o/
[18:00] <smb> \o
[18:00] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:00] <apw> #
[18:00] <apw> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:00] <apw> #
[18:00] <apw> [TOPIC] Outstanding Actions
[18:00] <apw> None from last meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding Actions
[18:00] <apw> [TOPIC] New Bodies
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  New Bodies
[18:00] <smb> I want one
[18:00] <apw> Welcome to all those new bodies who have joined us since the last meeting!
[18:01] <apw> those of you who are here might want to say hi
[18:01] <apw> ..
[18:01] <manjo> welcome
[18:01] <mpoirier> hello
[18:01] <vanhoof> hi :)
[18:01]  * apw expects a couple more
[18:01] <abogani> hi
[18:02]  * smb waits for lag 
[18:02] <lag> Hello
[18:02] <apw> Anyhow welcome all ...
[18:02] <apw> [TOPIC] UDS/Blueprints (all)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS/Blueprints (all)
[18:02] <apw> With UDS behind us its time to get all the discussion into the blueprints, to get the outcomes distilled out, and the work items onto the blueprint whiteboards.  Please ensure that your blueprint is assigned to someone in the team, that it is targetted to a sensible Maverick milestone, that it has a priority set, and that it has a Series Goal of Maverick.
[18:02] <apw> We will start to expect status reporting for the open blueprints from next meeting.  If you are an assignee, you will be expected to report progress or delegate someone to do so.  Please ensure your blueprint is shown on the release status page (url below), and if not talk to ogasawara or apw so we help sort it out.
[18:02] <apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:02] <apw> ..
[18:03] <ogasawara> apw et al: I'll send a gentle reminder about blueprints/work items to the mailing list as well
[18:03]  * apw warns you things are not in the normal order, so be ready :)
[18:03] <apw> ogasawara, ack
[18:03] <apw> [ACTION] ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
[18:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
[18:03] <apw> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick overall (ogasawara)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick overall (ogasawara)
[18:04] <ogasawara> For those who haven't yet heard, we'll be targetting the 2.6.35 kernel for Maverick.
[18:04] <ogasawara> We'll be rebasing to 2.6.34 final today and uploading.  Next will be to get the changes from the UDS config review integrated as well as changes noted from the UDS delta review.
[18:04] <ogasawara> For any brave souls wanting to try Maverick's current kernel, it's available at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/2.6.34-2.9
[18:04] <ogasawara> ..
[18:04] <apw> [TOPIC] Status: Security & Bugfix Kernels (smb/gnarl/sconklin)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Security & Bugfix Kernels (smb/gnarl/sconklin)
[18:04] <smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.83  (updates)
[18:04] <smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.69  (updates)
[18:04] <smb> Intrepid:    --- End of Support ---
[18:04] <smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (updates)
[18:04] <smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-21.59  (updates)
[18:04] <smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-213.27 (updates)
[18:04] <smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-111.27 (updates)
[18:04] <smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-306.14 (updates)
[18:04] <smb> Lucid:       2.6.32-22.33  (updates)
[18:04] <smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.32-204.16 (release)
[18:04] <smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-607.13 (release)
[18:04] <smb>  - ti-omap   2.6.33-500.6  (release)
[18:05] <smb>  - qcm-msm   2.6.31-800.2  (release)
[18:05] <smb>  - ec2       2.6.32-305.9  (release)
[18:05] <smb> Currently working on security updates. Following that there are quite a few
[18:05] <smb> stable updates for Lucid.
[18:05] <smb> Given the number of topic branches I expect pain.
[18:05] <smb> ..
[18:05] <sconklin> ..
[18:05] <apw> smb have we got a work-item for the slamming back of fsl-imx51 to karmic ?
[18:05] <smb> apw, action me
[18:05] <smb> I think not
[18:05] <apw> [ACTION] smb, to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
[18:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smb, to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
[18:06] <apw> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:06] <apw>  /me pokes JFo in the ribs
[18:06] <tgardner> JFo is sufferuing from ubuflue, so might not be around.
[18:07] <apw> ahh ... ok ...
[18:07]  * apw will take that under advisment
[18:07] <apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:07]  * apw takes that one as well
[18:07] <apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:07] <apw> seeing the pattern ?
[18:07] <apw> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:07] <tgardner> give it up, dude
[18:07] <apw> #
[18:07] <apw> # NOTE: 'o/' to indicate you have a topic, chair will call you forward
[18:07] <apw> #
[18:07] <kamal> o/
[18:08] <apw> kamal, go
[18:08] <kamal> Some of my Dell Studio 155x patches have been accepted to -stable.  Yay!   I'm sick.  :-(  UDS ----  wow!
[18:08] <kamal> ..
[18:08] <apw> sounds good, we should get those shortly via smb then
[18:08]  * smb saw something
[18:08] <manjo> o/
[18:09] <apw> manjo, go
[18:09] <manjo> any changes to SRU policy for Maveric ?
[18:09] <smb> manjo, no
[18:09]  * JFo is here now
[18:09] <apw> smb, presumably we are back to non-LTS sru policy
[18:09] <JFo> apologies for being late
[18:09] <smb> apw, Yes, though that is already documented
[18:09] <apw> JFo, ok ... will call your sections in a sec
[18:10] <JFo> k
[18:10] <apw> any other, any other business ?
[18:10] <manjo> ..
[18:10] <apw> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:10] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (none yet)
[18:10] <JFo> [18:10] <JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (none yet)
[18:10] <JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs
[18:10] <JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
[18:10] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
[18:10] <JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs
[18:10] <JFo> [18:10] <JFo> Milestoned Features -
[18:10] <JFo>  * 15 blueprints
[18:10] <JFo>     
[18:10] <JFo> [18:10] <JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:132
[18:10] <JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
[18:10] <JFo> Breakdown by status:
[18:10] <JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:11] <JFo> I plan to do a review of patch attached bugs this week
[18:11] <JFo> hopefully that number will drop drastically
[18:11] <JFo> ..
[18:11] <apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:11] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:11] <JFo> 1134 Lucid Bugs
[18:11] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:11] <JFo> [18:11] <JFo>   * 317 lucid bugs
[18:11] <JFo> [18:11] <JFo>   * 26 lucid bugs
[18:11] <JFo>   * 9 karmic bugs
[18:11] <JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
[18:11] <JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
[18:11] <JFo>   * 2 hardy bug (up 1)
[18:12] <JFo> [18:12] <JFo>   * 141 lucid bugs
[18:12] <JFo>   * 52 karmic bugs
[18:12] <JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
[18:12] <JFo>   * 10 intrepid bugs
[18:12] <JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs
[18:12] <JFo> [18:12] <JFo>   * 1 lucid bug
[18:12] <JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
[18:12] <JFo> I've not yet removed Intrepid, but I shall as it is EOL
[18:12] <apw> sounds good, rip it out
[18:12] <JFo> please note the large amount of regression-release bugs for Lucid
[18:12] <JFo> ok, will do
[18:12] <JFo> ..
[18:13] <apw> yeah we need to remember to focus on lucid regression-release bugs in the early cycle
[18:13] <JFo> yep
[18:13] <apw> this is an LTS and we care as we have to have this baby about forever
[18:13] <apw> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:13] <JFo> Bug Days will start back after next week. I plan to send out an announcement for the next one early in the week with a reminder the business day before.
[18:14] <smb> \o
[18:14] <apw> sounds good ...
[18:14] <manjo> since we SRU kittenkillers only should we mark all lucid bugs milstone to maveric ?
[18:14] <apw> smb, go
[18:14] <smb> Just on the Lucid release bugs, we should try to get the pending stable updates queued up into proposed and revisit then
[18:14] <apw> manjo, we don't know if they are even in maverick
[18:14] <JFo> I agree smb
[18:15] <JFo> ..
[18:15] <manjo> apw, right, so if !fixed in maveric
[18:15] <apw> we actually do fix bugs whcih affect users in lucid too btw
[18:15] <manjo> if you looks at jfos list its huge
[18:16] <apw> yeah we have a fair few bugs in there
[18:16] <smb> apw, manjo It should be in the SRU policy for the next 3 months
[18:16] <smb> After that rather kitten killers but for LTS also enablement to a degree
[18:16] <smb> ..
[18:17] <apw> smb, seems the SRU message is not getting out, we should have had a session on it at UDS
[18:17] <apw> ...
[18:17] <manjo> +1
[18:17] <apw> i think thats everything
[18:17] <apw> shout now if you have anything more
[18:17] <apw> #endmeeting
[18:17] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:17.
[18:18] <kamal> thanks apw
[18:18] <apw> thanks everyone
[18:18] <smb> thanks apw
[18:18] <JFo> thanks apw
[18:18] <cking> ditto
[18:18] <lag> Cheers
[18:18]  * lag runs for the door
[18:18]  * manjo bye
[18:57] <zul> server team meeting?
[18:57] <ttx> zul: in 3 min, yes
[18:57] <sommer> o//
[18:57] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[18:58] <Daviey> o/
[18:58] <zul> yo
[18:58] <Daviey> kirkland looking forward to it? :)
[19:00] <ttx> o/
[19:00] <ttx> Welcome everyone
[19:00] <mathiaz> /o//^98
[19:01] <hggdh> ~o~
[19:01] <ttx> to another season of the exciting adventures of the Ubuntu Server team
[19:01] <ttx> #startmeeting
[19:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is ttx.
[19:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:01] <Daviey> Ooooooo
[19:01] <zul> is it a sequal?
[19:01] <ttx> Agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[19:01] <zul> or a prequal
[19:01] <smoser> \0
[19:01] <ttx> smoser is the lucky scribe
[19:02] <smoser> ah. joy.
[19:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[19:02] <ttx> No ACTION that I can find
[19:02]  * mathiaz agrees
[19:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick blueprints and specs (ttx)
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick blueprints and specs (ttx)
[19:03] <ttx> So, while we recover from 5 (10?) days away from home, it's time to start drafting specs
[19:04] <ttx> Please have a look at specs where you are set as drafter, and set them to "Drafting" if you started drafting
[19:04] <ttx> I didn't manage to sync with Jos after UDS on potential reassignments
[19:04]  * Daviey doesn't have any, and would be happy to volunteer some if people are overloaded.
[19:04] <ttx> so please just take what you care the most about for now (or what you think will be assigned to you anyway)à
[19:05] <ttx> Daviey: I expect kirkland to offload some of his UEC specs to the rest of the team
[19:05] <ttx> Daviey: if not, I've one for you :)
[19:05] <Daviey> Oh joy :)
[19:05] <ttx> Daviey: but I'll wait for Jos to confirm first :P
[19:05] <Daviey> ok.
[19:06] <ttx> SpamapS: you should get a few too
[19:06] <ttx> SpamapS: hiding won't help you
[19:06] <zul> hehe
[19:06] <ttx> Any question on the blueprint/specs side ?
[19:07] <mathiaz> ttx: yes
[19:07] <mathiaz> ttx: what's the deadline for spec writing?
[19:07] <SpamapS> ttx: Jos assigned a few of the blueprints to me already
[19:07] <mathiaz> ttx: and how does it play with the first iteration of the cycle?
[19:07]  * SpamapS still will attempt hiding tho
[19:07] <ttx> mathiaz: that's a good question.
[19:07]  * ttx looks
[19:08] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: i'll ping you later on this week to discuss cloud-loadbalancing autoregistration. I alraedy have an idea on how to implement it :)
[19:08] <mathiaz> ttx: should the WI be defined for all BP?
[19:08] <SpamapS> ttx: is there a good wiki page on spec writing somewhere?
[19:08] <ttx> Feature Definition Freeze is on Jun 17th
[19:08] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: excellent, I look forward to hearing what you have in mind.
[19:09] <mathiaz> SpamapS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
[19:09] <ttx> I'd expect specs to be filed and approved by May 27th
[19:09] <hggdh> being rather new, directions on spec writing are also welcome
[19:09] <mathiaz> ttx: when does the first iteration start?
[19:09] <mathiaz> hggdh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
[19:09] <ttx> mathiaz: but again, haven't synced with Jos on the new release schedule yet
[19:09] <mathiaz> hggdh: SpamapS: use the SpecTemplate as template for the wiki page
[19:10] <ttx> mathiaz: it's already started, in a way
[19:10] <mathiaz> to outline what needs to be done
[19:10] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: :) we'll discuss that later this week since I believe we didn't have enough time at UDS session to discuss it
[19:10] <mathiaz> not all the sections will be needed
[19:10] <mathiaz> the focus is on getting the design section written
[19:10] <ttx> mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule shows A2 is already started
[19:10] <hggdh> mathiaz: thanks
[19:10] <ttx> mathiaz: however, we can consider being in Iteration planning this week and the next
[19:11] <mathiaz> the implementation section has been superseeded with Work Items in the BP whiteboard
[19:11] <mathiaz> hggdh: SpamapS: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto for we're tracking work items
[19:11] <ttx> mathiaz: Pending another direction, consider they are due for approval by May 27th, which means must be submitted for review by May 25th
[19:12] <smoser> it would be nice if mathiaz would update the spec template to indicate that
[19:12] <mathiaz> smoser: that == implmentation?
[19:12] <smoser> yes
[19:12] <mathiaz> smoser: I don't think it's official yet
[19:12] <ttx> SpamapS: i'll talk you through the process offline
[19:12] <mathiaz> smoser: it's more what I've found out last cycle
[19:12] <ttx> SpamapS: after the meeting
[19:13] <mathiaz> smoser: ttx may have another opinion on the use of the implementation section
[19:13] <mathiaz> smoser: moreover the SpecTemplate is a wiki template used throughout the whole Ubuntu project
[19:13] <ttx> mathiaz: no, I agree with you.
[19:14] <mathiaz> smoser: some team may choose to still use the implementation section
[19:14] <smoser> it surely would make sense to have it mentioned there at least "You may replace this with the work item tracker <link here>"
[19:14] <ttx> mathiaz: Sometime I use that section as a tracker when things are not easily tracked by work items
[19:14] <ttx> mathiaz: but that's purely optional and depending on the work needed
[19:15]  * ccheney is here too btw, forgot to announce earlier
[19:15] <ttx> Otherwise, this is the merging period, so please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[19:15] <mathiaz> for me, the design section == what we're trying to do (ie the end goal, the results)
[19:15] <mathiaz> and the implementation section == how we get there, which step, the plan (-> Work items)
[19:16] <ttx> mathiaz: for me, the Design discusses how we'll achieve the goal technically, and Implementation/WI show the detailed step by step plan
[19:16]  * kirkland is having irc proxy issues, but i'm here
[19:16] <ttx> kirkland: o/
[19:16] <mathiaz> ttx: right - I think we're in agreement here
[19:17] <ttx> OK, any other question on that ?
[19:17] <kirkland> ttx: please repeat any questions that were directed at me up until now
[19:17] <Daviey> mathiaz / ttx: Can you write a summary on the ML/Wiki?
[19:17] <ttx> Daviey: As soon as I have confirmed the deadlines with Jos, sure
[19:17] <mathiaz> I'm planning to use diagrams this cycle (following up on my whiteboard experiement at UDS) :)
[19:17] <Daviey> super
[19:17] <ttx> [ACTION] ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos
[19:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos
[19:18] <ttx> [ACTIOn] ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process
[19:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process
[19:18] <mathiaz> Daviey: are you asking for a summary of the spec guidelines as well?
[19:18] <Daviey> mathiaz: yes.. in diagram form :)
 Daviey: I expect kirkland to offload some of his UEC specs to the rest of the team
 Daviey: if not, I've one for you :)
[19:18] <Daviey> mathiaz: There seems to be some confusion/agreement.. and would be nice to have something to refer to.
[19:19] <ttx> kirkland: ^ (answering Daviey asking for some drafting work)
[19:19]  * mathiaz opens his 32nd document in Dia
[19:19]  * Daviey hopes kirkland's irc proxy issues are continuing
[19:19]  * sommer chuckles
[19:19] <kirkland> Daviey: yep, i'm here
[19:19] <kirkland> ttx: will do
[19:20] <ttx> Any other question on specing/merging ?
[19:20] <ttx> Moving on to...
[19:20] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[19:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[19:20] <ttx> hggdh: o/
[19:20] <hggdh> nothing new on the eastern front
[19:20]  * hggdh still recovering
[19:21] <ttx> hggdh: are you going to be assigned the new UEC testing spec ?
[19:21] <ttx> (or expecting to be assigned)
[19:21] <hggdh> ttx: I would expect so, and was considering drafting it (with help from mathiaz and smoser)
[19:21] <ttx> hggdh: ok, makes sense
[19:22] <ttx> I don't have any other questions... Team ?
[19:22] <zul> nope
[19:22] <Daviey> not here
[19:22] <hggdh> I have one
[19:22] <hggdh> may I start looking at NTP bugs?
[19:22] <ttx> hggdh: shoot
[19:22] <zul> hggdh: im for it
[19:22] <ttx> hggdh: you may start looking at any bug :)
[19:23] <hggdh> heh. I meant I will specialise on them, if all agree
[19:23] <hggdh> and slowly take over the world
[19:23] <zul> im all for taking over the world
[19:23] <ttx> hggdh: no problem. You need to start working on package bugfixes anyway, to get exposure
[19:23] <hggdh> ttx: ack
[19:23] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[19:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[19:23] <jjohansen> hey
[19:23] <ttx> hggdh: thanks
[19:23] <ttx> jjohansen: o/
[19:24] <jjohansen> so nothing really new on the kernel front
[19:24] <ttx> I would have been surpised if we had :)
[19:24] <ttx> I don't have questions or bugs for you yet :)
[19:25] <mathiaz> I have one - but not really related to -server hw
[19:25] <jjohansen> well smoser does, but I haven't made any progress on it since yesterday :)
[19:25] <mathiaz> I just got my new x201
[19:25] <jjohansen> mathiaz: nice
[19:25] <jjohansen> what is the issue?
[19:25] <mathiaz> and the external display isn't working
[19:25] <ttx> less nice.
[19:25] <mathiaz> there are also some issues with the graphic driver
[19:25] <Daviey> well would be a shame to let jjohansen go empty handed.. any news on the kernel issue with my "server" bug #576601?
[19:25] <mathiaz> there is a bug about it though
[19:26] <jjohansen> mathiaz: bug #
[19:26] <mathiaz> jjohansen: bug 554569
[19:26] <jjohansen> Daviey: sadly no progress I know of there
[19:27] <mathiaz> jjohansen: ^^ you get a blank screen when to try to install from the iso
[19:27] <mathiaz> I hope it will be fixed with 10.04.1
[19:27] <Daviey> jjohansen: thanks
[19:28] <mathiaz> well - that's all I had for the kernel team
[19:28] <jjohansen> mathiaz: hrmm okay I'll look into it and get back to you with what I find
[19:28]  * ttx moves on
[19:28] <mathiaz> jjohansen: great - thanks
[19:28] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[19:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[19:28] <ttx> including Changes discussed at UDS on SRU tracking
[19:29] <mathiaz> hm - right
[19:29] <mathiaz> so bug 575945
[19:29] <mathiaz> is nominated for hardy
[19:29] <mathiaz> and two bugs for lucid
[19:29] <ttx> mathiaz/zul: I propose that we move to the new model starting next week
[19:29] <zul> ack
[19:29] <ttx> though explaining it first today would be nice
[19:29] <mathiaz> ttx: ok - that's going to require some work though
[19:30] <mathiaz> ttx: ie - some WI and development
[19:30] <ttx> mathiaz: for the tracking yes, but to replace the nomination review, maybe not ?
[19:30] <mathiaz> so following up on the sru-process discussion at UDS
[19:30] <ttx> I meant switching nomination review from meeting to ML
[19:30] <mathiaz> we'll move the nomination review to the ML
[19:31] <mathiaz> ttx: a script needs to be develop to generate the list of bugs to review for nominations
[19:31] <ttx> mathiaz: hmm, ok. Maybe we should wait before switching then
[19:31] <mathiaz> (which should also include the list of bugs closed)
[19:32] <ttx> mathiaz: and continue until the spec is written
[19:32] <mathiaz> ttx: that's why I think we should write a BP for the sru-process as well
[19:32] <ttx> ack
[19:32] <mathiaz> as there will be some development work required
[19:32] <ttx> ok, let's keep the current process until we have a plan for this
[19:32] <ttx> (and resources assigned to make it work)
[19:33] <mathiaz> ok
[19:33]  * ttx looks at this week's nominations
[19:33] <ttx> bug 575945 is incomplete -> decline
[19:34] <mathiaz> ttx: just accepted
[19:34] <mathiaz> as mdeslaur seems to have a backport ready in a PPA
[19:34] <ttx> ah, ok
[19:34] <mathiaz> bug 574704
[19:34] <ttx> I'll defer to check on this one
[19:34] <ttx> to Chuck
[19:34] <zul> that one needs more testing
[19:35] <mathiaz> zul: SRU worth?
[19:35] <ttx> zul: you intend to SRU it ?
[19:35] <zul> yeah i do
[19:35]  * mathiaz accepts the bug then
[19:35] <mathiaz> bug 576910
[19:35] <zul> i havent seen that one
[19:36] <zul> yeah i can see that one being sru
[19:36] <ttx> I'd say yes
[19:36] <Daviey> would be nice if the reporter gave an example of something it broke.
[19:36] <zul> freaking php ;)
[19:36] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[19:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[19:36] <mathiaz> ^^ anything SRU worth on this list?
[19:37] <ttx> mathiaz: nothing from me
[19:37] <zul> most of those i seen sru's for already
[19:37] <zul> ie dovecot
[19:37] <mathiaz> alright - then that's all
[19:37] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[19:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[19:38] <ttx> Anything/anyone ?
[19:38] <Daviey> sommer: If you want a hand with your doc's spec, do shout out for it. :)
[19:39]  * ttx introduces SpamapS, a new team member that will care about our Web/Ops stack
[19:39] <Daviey> SpamapS: o/
[19:39] <sommer> Daviey: will do... there's some good discussion on the ubuntu-doc list at the moment
[19:39]  * ttx doesn't introduce Daviey, a new team member that everyone already knows.
[19:39] <Daviey> sommer: I'll follow it.
[19:39] <zul> boo
[19:39] <Daviey> bah
[19:39] <zul> hehe
[19:39] <mathiaz> and ccheney that joins the server team for some time as well
[19:40] <ccheney> yea! :-)
[19:40] <ttx> sommer: I was wondering if, as discussed at UDS, you'd like a weekly slot in the team meeting (like QA and kernel ?)
[19:40] <ttx> mathiaz, ccheney: indeed ! Too many new people, I get lost
[19:40] <SpamapS> Hi everyone. :)
[19:41] <SpamapS> sorry I was still reading list of bugs for SRU consideration.
[19:41] <ttx> SpamapS: you have to be faster :P
[19:41] <sommer> ttx: maybe... I'll have more time to stay up to date this cycle so I think we'll see how it goes
[19:41] <SpamapS> ttx: Thats precisely what the bus drivers were trying to teach us wasn't it?
[19:42] <Daviey> ttx: can we go home now? :)
[19:42] <SpamapS> Daviey: meaning "can I take my pants off now?"
[19:42] <smoser> i think it should be clarifid that Davey and SpamapS are new members to the Canonical Server Team.
[19:42] <smoser> Daviey is by no means new to the Ubuntu Server teeam
[19:42] <Daviey> SpamapS: you need to check your US to UK translations. :)
[19:43] <ttx> Daviey: ok, ok
[19:43] <SpamapS> Daviey: I'm using Benny Hill's US<->UK dictionary.. is that not a good one?
[19:43] <ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[19:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[19:43] <ccheney> smoser: Also, I am a member of the Canonical Desktop Team on loan to Canonical Server Team for this release cycle.
[19:43] <ttx> Next week, same time, same place
[19:43] <Daviey> :(
[19:43] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: do you want to chat about load balancing now or later?
[19:43] <ttx> Daviey: you can go to your dinner now :)
[19:43]  * sommer +1
[19:44] <hggdh> heh. For me, lunch
[19:44] <Daviey> \o/
[19:44] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: as you prefer
[19:45] <ttx> #endmeeting
[19:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:45.
[20:51] <juancarlospaco2> Holas
[20:52] <juancarlospaco2> Hello
[20:52] <juancarlospaco2> Bonjour
[20:52] <PabloRubianes> hola/hello
[20:53] <juancarlospaco2> traje mate
[20:53] <jorgevazq1> juancarlospaco2: hay forma de que me llegue hasta Mexico=
[20:53] <jorgevazq1> ?
[20:53] <jorgevazq1> jajaja
[20:54] <unimix> hey PabloRubianes, juancarlospaco2, jorgevazq1 !
[20:54] <leogg> juancarlospaco2, paselo nomas :)
[20:54] <PabloRubianes> hola unimix
[20:54] <juancarlospaco2> solo si hay forma de que unos Tacos lleguen hasta Argentina...
[20:54] <gnunezr> jorgevazq1: Lo puedes conseguir en el palacio de hierro, en la sección de "Delicatessen", si mal no recuerdo
[20:54] <jorgevazq1> juancarlospaco2: hmm
[20:54] <jorgevazq1> lo pensare
[20:54] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[20:54] <jorgevazq1> jajaja
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> gnunezr: en serio? pero no estoy en la ciudad de Mexico
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> estoy un bastante más al norte
[20:55] <gnunezr> Palacio de hierro hay en todos lados, no?
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> gnunezr: nope
[20:55] <gnunezr> Uh... Prissa?
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> creo que nada más en DF, GDL y MTY
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> Prissa?
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> esa no la conozco
[20:55] <gnunezr> Ellos no siempre tienen
[20:55] <jorgevazq1> hmm
[20:56] <juancarlospaco2> bienvenida sofia
[20:56] <jorgevazq1> buscaré en Sanborn's
[20:56] <juancarlospaco2> welcome sofia
[20:56] <jorgevazq1> saludos sofiavitale
[20:56] <sofiavitale> hola a todos
[20:56] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[20:56] <gnunezr> Uh, buena suerte :p
[20:56] <jorgevazq1> jajajaja el juancarlospaco2 todo bilingüe
[20:56] <jorgevazq1> gracias gnunezr
[20:56] <juancarlospaco2> sep
[20:56] <jorgevazq1> PabloRubianes: y es la primera vez que intentan oficializarse?
[20:56] <PabloRubianes> si jorgevazq1
[20:57] <jorgevazq1> oh, deja hago un cambio
[20:57] <juancarlospaco2> hablo español, ingles, klingon, na'vi, python
[20:57] <juancarlospaco2> XD
[20:57] <unimix> juancarlospaco2, lol !
[20:57] <slangasek> juancarlospaco2: tendrás que decirnos qué tal el language-pack-gnome-tlh
[20:57] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[20:58] <jorgevazq> PabloRubianes: pues mucha suerte
[20:58] <jorgevazq> nosotros es la segunda vez, a ver cómo nos va
[20:58] <juancarlospaco2> hay que pagar derecho de piso
[20:58] <juancarlospaco2> jajjjajajaj chiste
[20:58] <juancarlospaco2> XD
[20:58] <juancarlospaco2> que fea esa palabra eh...
[20:59] <PabloRubianes> gracias jorgevazq
[21:00] <paultag> Hey all
[21:00] <jorgevazq> hi paultag
[21:00] <paultag> we will be starting in one sec -- hold on
[21:00] <paultag> :)
[21:00] <jorgevazq> paultag: ok
[21:00] <PabloRubianes> hey paultag!
[21:00] <jorgevazq> umm
[21:00] <paultag> howdy PabloRubianes :)
[21:00] <jorgevazq> ubuntu-mx contact should be here soon
[21:00] <PabloRubianes> paultag: :S :D
[21:01] <jorgevazq> he was literally rushing home from work
[21:01] <paultag> As per usual Ubuntu protocol we will be starting this meeting just a few minutes late :)
[21:01] <jorgevazq> howdy, jamesjedimaster
[21:01] <jamesjedimaster> hi jorgevazq
[21:01] <jorgevazq> paultag: thanks, pal!
[21:02] <juancarlospaco2> lol
[21:02] <huats> who is late ?
[21:02] <huats> :)
[21:02] <huats> not me:D
[21:03] <popey> :)
[21:03] <juancarlospaco2> not late, just different UTC   :)
[21:03] <juancarlospaco2> XD
[21:03] <paultag> Ha!
[21:03] <paultag> UTC+0010
[21:03] <popey> ok, lets get started
[21:03] <jorgevazq> 'k... brb, gotta brush my teeth... I kinda feel weird to speak in public right after mealtime
[21:03] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:04] <popey> So first item on the agenda is Uruguay LoCo Team reapproval..
[21:04] <popey> er approval :)
[21:04] <paultag> there it is ;)
[21:04] <PabloRubianes> Here
[21:04] <popey> hey PabloRubianes
[21:04] <PabloRubianes> hello popey
[21:05] <popey> anyone else here for Uruguay?
[21:05] <efebe> i'm from uruguay ;)
[21:05] <PabloRubianes> yes sofiavitale and Julin digan hola
[21:06] <Julin> hola!!!!
[21:06] <sofiavitale> hola!
[21:06] <Julin> vamo arriba ubuntu uruguay!
[21:06] <Julin> eso se podia?
[21:06] <popey> :)
[21:06] <PabloRubianes> most people is working at this time here
[21:06] <itnet7> PabloRubianes: same here
[21:07] <juancarlospaco2> yeah im "working"
[21:07] <popey> :)
[21:07] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[21:07] <popey> PabloRubianes: do you log your irc meetings?
[21:07] <PabloRubianes> the important ones yes, and the others we provide a sumary on the website
[21:08] <popey> I see you hold events recycling computers, how successful has that been?
[21:09] <paultag> Yeah, Hardwaraiser, what's that about
[21:09] <PabloRubianes> very nice
[21:09] <PabloRubianes> we try to ask for unused hardware and put together computers
[21:10] <PabloRubianes> then we give them to poor schools in the rural areas
[21:10] <paultag> PabloRubianes, about how many machines do you donate each year?
[21:10] <PabloRubianes> about 5
[21:10] <paultag> outstanding
[21:10] <popey> I love the Centros de Distribucion idea!
[21:10] <PabloRubianes> every year, we are about to start this year
[21:10] <popey> thats brilliant
[21:11] <PabloRubianes> popey: the thing is here internet is not so fast
[21:11] <PabloRubianes> we have to give alternatives to download
[21:11] <paultag> PabloRubianes, can you tell me a bit about some of your past events? Have you held installfests and the like?
[21:11] <popey> Sure, but i love the idea of people burning CDs for the price of a blank disc
[21:12] <PabloRubianes> yes we been part of the last two Years "Flisol"
[21:12] <huats> PabloRubianes, that was something I was about to ask you, if you exchange with other Locos
[21:12] <huats> that is great
[21:12] <PabloRubianes> there you take your computer and a voluntary install Ubuntu for you
[21:13] <PabloRubianes> huats: lately we start to work on #ubuntu-es-locos we are trying to work with other locos which speak english
[21:13] <PabloRubianes> spanish sorry
[21:13] <paultag> :)
[21:13] <paultag> PabloRubianes, do you guys participate in translation work?
[21:13] <huats> PabloRubianes, yeah I have figure out
[21:14] <juancarlospaco2> i was, but the translator team rejected me :(
[21:14] <PabloRubianes> not many people here know english that's the problem
[21:14] <PabloRubianes> juancarlospaco2: me too
[21:14] <paultag> Ah
[21:14] <itnet7> PabloRubianes: what are your teams plans for the near future?
[21:14] <PabloRubianes> we are going to publish a magazine
[21:15] <itnet7> I see some listed, but what I mean is what are you most passionate about
[21:15] <PabloRubianes> and form a Education Team in order to give online courses
[21:15] <juancarlospaco2> mayor colaboration with Bleachbit, until translator member becomes mandatory, they reject me, cant collaborate anymore
[21:16] <PabloRubianes> and lately education institutions are asking us to give talks to parents and teachers
[21:16] <itnet7> Very cool
[21:17] <PabloRubianes> the Plan Ceibal was a huge success for linux here
[21:17] <huats> Have you been part of the global jam ?
[21:18] <huats> or do you plan to ?
[21:18] <PabloRubianes> no, we have problems to find a place, without having to pay, but the next one I think we are going to join
[21:18] <paultag> PabloRubianes, how do you plan to change how you operate if you become an approved team and have access to the resources of an approved team
[21:18] <huats> PabloRubianes, for the record I have done my first one in a bar with an internet connection
[21:18] <huats> it might be an idea...
[21:18] <paultag> huats, +1 !!
[21:19] <popey> http://www.ubuntu.org.uy/main/?q=node/1304  who made those tutorials?
[21:19] <PabloRubianes> huats: that's good idea
[21:19] <huats> PabloRubianes, the idea behind jam was a group of people gathering around a pizza to ork on bugs...
[21:20] <huats> so you can even do that in someone's house... I think efrain did that:)
[21:20] <PabloRubianes> huats: we are weird we held the release party on a university and gave talks
[21:20] <juancarlospaco2> mmm pizza
[21:20] <huats> PabloRubianes, why do you say weird ?
[21:20] <PabloRubianes> there was a too formal party
[21:20] <paultag> Bah!
[21:20] <popey> :)
[21:20] <paultag> I did that too. It's awesome
[21:20] <popey> each to their own
[21:20] <paultag> PabloRubianes, how do you plan to change how you operate if you become an approved team and have access to the resources of an approved team
[21:21] <PabloRubianes> no, I think we are gonna provide with the cds canonical send to the approved locos to the Centros de Distribucion
[21:22] <PabloRubianes> but we set a course when we form the community council and we are gonna stick to it
[21:22] <itnet7> PabloRubianes: popey was interested in who created the videos, were you involved, or is there a part of your team that contributes through tutorials?
[21:23] <PabloRubianes> no I want't part
[21:23] <itnet7> http://www.ubuntu.org.uy/main/?q=node/1304
[21:23] <paultag> PabloRubianes, do you know who created them?
[21:24] <PabloRubianes> I think Julin found them on other page and put it there,
[21:24] <popey> useful resource
[21:24] <itnet7> That is still really cool!!!
[21:24] <paultag> It would be really cool to get more of those
[21:24] <paultag> PabloRubianes, being part of the Ubuntu Beginners Team, you could really help new users who es :)
[21:25] <PabloRubianes> yes they are really good
[21:25] <paultag> only speak es *
[21:25] <PabloRubianes> this videos are made by a member of our loco http://sites.google.com/a/ubuntu.org.uy/montevideo/tutoriales/video-tutoriales
[21:26] <paultag> well done
[21:27] <popey> i like the separate sites for regions of Uy
[21:27] <popey> ok we ready to vote on Uruguay team approval?
[21:27] <itnet7> yes!
[21:27] <paultag> sure am
[21:27] <leogg> yep
[21:27] <popey> I'm going to +1
[21:27] <leogg> +1 here
[21:27] <paultag> +1 here, too
[21:27] <itnet7> +1 for me as well!
[21:28] <paultag> huats, *poke*
[21:28] <itnet7> :-)
[21:28] <huats> +1 too
[21:28] <paultag> :)
[21:28] <huats> thanks paultag
[21:28] <paultag> huats, sure thing :)
[21:28] <popey> win
[21:28] <popey> congratulations PabloRubianes
[21:28] <huats> congrats !
[21:28] <PabloRubianes> THanks!!!!
[21:28] <paultag> Congrats PabloRubianes! :)
[21:28] <leogg> vamo uruguay! :)
[21:28] <jorgevazq> felicidades Uruguay!
[21:28] <itnet7> Congrulations to ubuntu-uy!!
[21:29] <PabloRubianes> but's not only me!
[21:29] <leogg> congrats guys
[21:29] <jorgevazq> keep up the good work
[21:29] <gnunezr> Arriba el paisito!!! :D
[21:29] <unimix> congratulations PabloRubianes and the Ubuntu-uy team ! You deserve it ! Good work !
[21:29] <efebe> congrulations :)
[21:29] <itnet7> great job, and we look forward to the future and what your team will achieve
[21:29] <pcapeluto> Que grande Uruguay!!!!!!!!  GRACIAS PABLO!!!!!!
[21:29] <paultag> aye, we have high hopes :)
[21:29] <PabloRubianes> :D
[21:29]  * popey has invited ubuntu-uy to locoteams-approved
[21:29] <efebe> muy bien pablo y el resto de ubuntu-uy felicidades :)
[21:29] <popey> PabloRubianes: you should get an invite mail
[21:30] <PabloRubianes> thanks a lot to the people who help me to make the approval application
[21:30] <magu42> Gracias Pablo!!! thanks the council  :-)
[21:30] <paultag> thank you guys :)
[21:30] <itnet7> magu42: thank you
[21:30] <magu42> itnet7» :-)
[21:30] <PabloRubianes> popey: ok!
[21:30] <pcapeluto> Thank you very much at all, the whole community waiting for this moment
[21:30] <Toluxero> clap clap
[21:31] <sofiavitale> thanks!!!
[21:31] <juancarlospaco2> Uruguay pays the beer
[21:31] <juancarlospaco2> lol   XD
[21:31] <Toluxero> xD
[21:31] <pcapeluto> jajajajaj
[21:31] <popey> right, who's up next?
[21:31] <leogg> juancarlospaco2, +1
[21:31] <jorgevazq> wiii
[21:31] <jorgevazq> Mexico's next!
[21:32] <Toluxero> jorgevazq, relax
[21:32] <popey> :)
[21:32] <rkgarcia> XD
[21:32]  * jorgevazq excited, sorry
[21:32] <itnet7> jorgevazq's excited, now worries :-)
[21:32] <itnet7> no worries
[21:32] <itnet7> I meant *
[21:32] <jorgevazq> hohoho
[21:32] <Toluxero> hahaha
[21:32] <itnet7> :-P
[21:34] <Toluxero> lalala
[21:34]  * paultag is reading
[21:34]  * jorgevazq is anxious
[21:34] <paultag> hold on Mexico, we're still here :)
[21:34] <popey> So Toluxero, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMxTeam/Eventos/Flisol2010 can you tell us about this event?
[21:35] <Toluxero> popey, ok, this event is the "festival latinoamericano de software libre"
[21:36] <itnet7> Toluxero: how does your team participate?
[21:36] <popey> what was theplan?
[21:36] <Toluxero> in this event, me represent a the community
[21:37]  * Toluxero is nervous
[21:37] <juancarlospaco2> :s
[21:37] <itnet7> Do you help with installations, or recruit for your LoCo, or help users with issues?
[21:37] <itnet7> Don't be nervous you are among friends :-)
[21:38] <Toluxero> ok
[21:38] <Toluxero> sorry
[21:38] <popey> we need a bit more detail I think.
[21:38] <Toluxero> I participated in both installing and conferences
[21:38] <Toluxero> in this event
[21:39] <Toluxero> and distribution of CD's
[21:39] <jamesjedimaster> talking about the advantages of ubuntu
[21:39] <Toluxero>  I was also part of the organization staff at one of the Sites
[21:39] <popey> cool.
[21:40] <popey> Where would you say most people in the community "hang out"? forums? irc? mailing list? somewhere else?
[21:40] <jorgevazq> popey: yeah, he even designed Barcoded tickets and all
[21:40] <popey> heh, neat!
[21:41] <jamesjedimaster> most people enters the forum for Q&A
[21:41] <jorgevazq> although IRC is a nice place  to socialize ;)
[21:41] <jamesjedimaster> we provide some answers according to our experiences
[21:41] <huats> Do you have developpers (I mean Ubuntu developpers) in your team ?
[21:41] <jamesjedimaster> and when users need faster answers, they can find us at irc
[21:41] <popey> do you get many new people in the forums / irc?
[21:42] <Toluxero> popey, in the forums
[21:42] <itnet7> Can you talk a little about your Podcast, and has that helped the Team to grow, and raise awareness for your LoCo and Ubuntu?
[21:42] <jorgevazq> I can talk about the podcast
[21:42] <jorgevazq> that's the subteam I guide
[21:42] <jorgevazq> well, we have been downloaded over 1,000 times, counting all three episodes
[21:43] <juancarlospaco2> i need to sudo reboot will be back...
[21:43] <jorgevazq> we believe it has helped us to be known
[21:43] <popey> any more episodes planned?
[21:43] <jorgevazq> popey: yes
[21:43] <jorgevazq> actually
[21:43] <jorgevazq> we're planning a special episode for Lucid Lynx
[21:44] <itnet7> Nice!
[21:44] <leogg> jorgevazq, cool
[21:44] <jorgevazq> we plan to gather many types of "ubuntu users"
[21:44] <jorgevazq> such as students
[21:44] <jorgevazq> designers
[21:44] <jorgevazq> programmers
[21:44] <jamesjedimaster> engineers
[21:44] <jorgevazq> internet-café owners
[21:44] <jorgevazq> and so forth
[21:44] <Nuun> musicians
[21:45] <jorgevazq> so that they can actually share why they liked ubuntu (specially Lucid), and how it makes their life easier
[21:45] <huats> Are you planning to participate in the global jam ?
[21:46] <jlbrito> Hola
[21:46] <jamesjedimaster> huats: we haven't talk about the jam, but sometime in the near future :)
[21:46] <Toluxero> huats, it  is in our plans to do so
[21:46] <paultag> jorgevazq, What do you see as the strongest part of your team?
[21:46] <paultag> erm jamesjedimaster *
[21:47] <jorgevazq> paultag: the loco contact is Toluxero
[21:47] <paultag> sorry! I've been reading
[21:47] <paultag> Toluxero, to you, then -- What do you see as the strongest part of your team?
[21:48] <Toluxero> paultag, the support to new users
[21:48] <Toluxero> in the forum
[21:48] <jamesjedimaster> I think the experience of old linux users, and the curiosity of the new ones
[21:48] <Toluxero> the forum is the door to anothers projects of the team
[21:48] <paultag> :)
[21:48] <jorgevazq> and they later join us on IRC, or other teams
[21:50] <Toluxero> in projects: we are also planning a school-oriented project
[21:51] <Toluxero> right now, the doc team is working on a knowledge database
[21:52] <huats> do you have plans to try to grow your community ?
[21:53] <Toluxero> huats, sure!
[21:53] <huats> can you elaborate a bit more ?
[21:53] <huats> :)
[21:53] <Toluxero> we want to create local communities in every state
[21:54] <Toluxero> actually a recent community was created: ubuntu-mx-df
[21:54] <jorgevazq> df stands for "distrito federal", the official name of Mexico City
[21:54] <Toluxero> (rest 31)
[21:54] <huats> and what will be the role of each of that local community ?
[21:56] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[21:58] <jorgevazq> well, each local community may hold its own events
[21:58] <huats> ok
[21:58] <jorgevazq> which would be more succesfull, for distance is currently one of our biggest obstacles
[21:58] <jorgevazq> in that aspect
[21:58] <huats> jorgevazq, ok
[21:59] <jorgevazq> we would also expand and disclose ubuntu trhoughout the country more effectively, for every region would have its own strategy (according to their situation)
[22:00] <leogg> jorgevazq, Toluxero, dentro del council sentimos que han hecho un excelente trabajo como comunidad, pero pensamos que podrían necesitar algo de ayuda para fortalecer el grupo y seguir creciendo
[22:01] <leogg> esto no es un no definitivo de parte nuestra, sino que nos gustaría que trabajarán un poco más en las áreas que están débiles
[22:01] <toluxero_> sorry
[22:01] <jorgevazq> network issues with toluxero_
[22:02] <leogg> piensan ustedes que la comunidad ubuntu-mx se podría beneficiarcon algo de ayuda de nuestra parte?
[22:03] <Toluxero> leogg, claro, yo no se cuales sean las observaciones. Durante el año que he estado trabajando
[22:03] <Toluxero> he visto como crece la comunidad
[22:03] <jamesjedimaster> por supuesto, tal vez estamos viciados y no vemos todo lo que nos falta por hacer desde dentro
[22:03] <Toluxero> como pide más cosas, y como necesitamos de mas ayuda
[22:03] <leogg> Toluxero, están haciendo un excelente trabajo :)
[22:04] <Toluxero> leogg, acabo de tomar el contacto y realmente mi ingles es muy malo
[22:04] <leogg> pero hay lugar para mejorar un par de cosas
[22:04] <leogg> Toluxero, no hay problema
[22:04] <leogg> podemos hablar en español :)
[22:04] <jorgevazq> leogg: como cuales? para ir aplicandonos en eso
[22:04] <leogg> Toluxero has recently taken the leadership in ubuntu-mx
[22:05] <jorgevazq> la traduccion nos detuvo un poco en la junta
[22:05] <Toluxero> leogg, de hecho es un cambio que se hizo, para empezar a quitar vicios
[22:05] <leogg> jorgevazq, necesitan un poco más de actividad sostenida
[22:05] <Toluxero> se quiere promover que haya mas ubuntu members
[22:06] <leogg> documentar un poco mejor el trabajo
[22:06] <leogg> Toluxero, eso también, promover más el trabajo hacía afuera
[22:06] <leogg> Toluxero, jorgevazq, me gustaría ayudarles en ese aspecto para ver si podemos retomar la oficialización dentro de un par de meses
[22:07] <leogg> si a ustedes les parece bien?
[22:07] <Toluxero> leogg, es la segunda vez q lo hacemos.
[22:07] <Toluxero> leogg, hemos puesto mucho empeño en hacerlo
[22:07] <juancarlospaco2> :(
[22:07] <jorgevazq> 2009 was a though year for us
[22:07] <leogg> Toluxero, se mira que han hecho un gran trabajo
[22:07] <Toluxero> además de que a veces es muy complicado por la situacion em mexico
[22:08] <leogg> a veces toma un poco de tiempo reconstruir las cosas
[22:08] <jorgevazq> H1N1 was a real hit to many events
[22:08] <Toluxero> el año pasado fue muy dificil, todo el año se fue gracias a la influenza.
[22:08] <leogg> Toluxero, me lo imagino
[22:08] <Toluxero> y este año ni se diga en invierno restringieron de nuevo los eventos masivos
[22:08] <juancarlospaco2> sudo kill -9 h1n1
[22:09] <Toluxero> y quitaron la restriccion aproximadamente 6 semanas
[22:09] <leogg> Toluxero, jorgevazq, yo les recomendaría que se tomen su tiempo en reconstruir el equipo
[22:09] <leogg> y que intentemos de nuevo en un par de meses
[22:09] <leogg> yo estoy a su disposición para ayudarles si lo necesitan
[22:09] <rkgarcia> leogg++
[22:10] <itnet7> Toluxero: I am here for you as well
[22:10] <itnet7> ping me anytime
[22:10]  * Toluxero is sad, too sad
[22:10] <jorgevazq> gracias por el ofrecimiento leogg
[22:11] <leogg> Toluxero, don't be... it's a great opportunity to build a new and strong team
[22:11] <Nuun> ...so?
[22:11] <leogg> jorgevazq, siempre a la orden :)
[22:11] <jorgevazq> Nuun: que no
[22:11] <jorgevazq> leogg: vale, dejanos asimilar todo esto, estamos en contacto
[22:11] <jorgevazq> que tenemos mucho trabajo que hacer
[22:11] <jorgevazq> :(
[22:11] <Nuun> that's ok, it's a pleasure.
[22:11] <leogg> jorgevazq, claro... buscame en cualquier momento
[22:13] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[22:13] <PabloRubianes> si a mi tambien... estamos todos para ayudar
[22:13] <itnet7> jorgevazq: I am confident that if you take leogg up on his offer, that he can help bring to light some of the great work you have done, where it's not so obvious now
[22:15] <popey> thanks leogg and everyone else for coming.
[22:15] <leogg> thank you guys
[22:15] <jorgevazq> see ya later someday soon
[22:15] <paultag> thanks guys!
[22:16] <jorgevazq> itnet7: probably, but again, we still need to figure out some things by ourselves before getting help from outside
[22:16] <Toluxero> jorgevazq, relax please
[22:17] <jorgevazq> I am relaxed, I'm just saying we got to strategize before jumping
[22:17] <paultag> jorgevazq, we are here to help in any way
[22:17] <jorgevazq> ok
[22:17] <jorgevazq> thank you all
[22:17] <jorgevazq> really
[22:18] <paultag> thank you guys. Keep up the good work
[22:18] <jorgevazq> paultag: count on it
[22:19] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[22:19] <paultag> Alright. That's it. Thanks for coming everyone. Have a great day!
[22:20] <jorgevazq> ci vediamo, tutti!
[22:23] <juancarlospaco2> esteeeeem...
[22:28] <PabloRubianes> Bye and thanks all!!
[22:28] <juancarlospaco2> :)
[22:35] <juancarlospaco2> vuelvo a ed a escribir unas cosas...
[22:38] <pcapeluto> Nuevamente gracias a todos, una alegría muy grande nos han dado esta noche, muchas gracias, estamos en contacto, Thanks again to everyone, a great joy they have given us tonight, thank you very much, we are in contact