| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === mrevell__ is now known as mrevell | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| bac | #startmeeting | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac. | 15:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:00 |
| bac | hi, who is here today? | 15:00 |
| gmb | me | 15:00 |
| sinzui | me | 15:00 |
| bac | for the launchpad reviewers meeting | 15:00 |
| danilos | me | 15:01 |
| gary_poster | me | 15:01 |
| abentley | me | 15:01 |
| gary_poster | (mars will probably be absent) | 15:01 |
| bac | bigjools ping | 15:01 |
| bac | EdwinGrubbs: ping | 15:02 |
| BjornT | me | 15:02 |
| EdwinGrubbs | me | 15:02 |
| bigjools | \o | 15:02 |
| leonardr | me | 15:02 |
| adeuring | me | 15:02 |
| noodles775 | me | 15:02 |
| bac | team leads would you ping your absent folks | 15:03 |
| deryck | me | 15:03 |
| gary_poster | (foundations is as here as we're going to get) | 15:03 |
| bac | gary_poster: thanks | 15:03 |
| henninge | me | 15:03 |
| gary_poster | np | 15:03 |
| bac | hi intellectronica, jelmer | 15:03 |
| henninge | hi bac ;) | 15:04 |
| jelmer | hi Brad | 15:04 |
| bac | ok, let's get started and hopefully some stragglers will appear | 15:04 |
| bac | [topic] agenda | 15:04 |
| MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 15:04 |
| bac | * Roll call | 15:04 |
| bac | * Agenda | 15:04 |
| bac | * Outstanding actions | 15:04 |
| bac | * Mentoring update | 15:04 |
| bac | * New topics | 15:04 |
| bac | * ec2 failures update - bac | 15:04 |
| bac | * Reviewer move to Friday? - bac | 15:04 |
| bac | * Peanut gallery | 15:04 |
| bac | [topic] outstanding actions | 15:05 |
| MootBot | New Topic: outstanding actions | 15:05 |
| bac | there are only two outstanding actions...both assigned to me. | 15:05 |
| bac | but i'm batting .500 | 15:05 |
| bac | * bac to write community reviewer and contributor policy and announce it on the list. -- done | 15:05 |
| bac | i got that out, as promised, before leaving for UDS. | 15:06 |
| bac | but remain stalled on: | 15:06 |
| bac | * bac to define new doctest policy regarding what is "testable documentation". | 15:06 |
| bac | i'll try to get to that next week | 15:06 |
| bac | [topic] * ec2 failures update - bac | 15:06 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * ec2 failures update - bac | 15:06 |
| bac | actually, i was hoping to have mars give us an update but he's not here today | 15:07 |
| gary_poster | I can summarize maybe | 15:07 |
| bac | sinzui reported in our standup that work has been done but it is still very much a problem | 15:07 |
| bac | yes, gary_poster? | 15:07 |
| gary_poster | mars has been investigating the problems on ec2 test. As a workaround, he has disabled the Windmill tests on ec2. This is obviously very suboptimal, but considered to be less sub-optimal than ec2 break one out of four times, which I gather is the rough stat. | 15:08 |
| gary_poster | He will continue to try to figure out and address the underlying cauase so he can reinstate the windmill tests in ec2 | 15:08 |
| * bac saw about 60% failure last time he tried | 15:09 | |
| gary_poster | note that windmill tests still run in buildbot | 15:09 |
| gary_poster | so this is a testfix risk | 15:09 |
| gary_poster | hopefully I didn't get anything wrong; that's what I understand. done. | 15:09 |
| bac | gary_poster: when tests hang, and the script kills itself after timing out, does it send a farewell email? i think that would be a useful addition if not. | 15:10 |
| gary_poster | bac, that is on mars' backlog, and in fact will be one of the next things he does to address, yes. | 15:10 |
| bac | ok, great | 15:11 |
| bac | gary_poster: when were the windmill tests disabled? | 15:11 |
| gary_poster | bac, IIRC, Monday, with issues; issues were resolved yesterday | 15:12 |
| bac | sinzui: did you see your tests disappear after that or before? | 15:12 |
| sinzui | One disappeared yesterday afternoon | 15:12 |
| gary_poster | sinzui, bac, we'll need to bring this up to mars. Would you like me to take that action ite,? | 15:13 |
| gary_poster | item | 15:13 |
| bac | we should all keep an eye on our ec2 tests and report to mars instances of them disappearing. | 15:13 |
| gary_poster | +1 | 15:13 |
| bac | gary_poster: that would be great. | 15:13 |
| gary_poster | ok | 15:13 |
| bac | [action] gary to follow up with mars on ec2 problems. | 15:13 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: gary to follow up with mars on ec2 problems. | 15:13 |
| sinzui | gary_poster, I think my branch was within a few hours of the mailmanlayer shutoff. the issue may be fixed | 15:14 |
| gary_poster | sinzui: ack wll pass along, thanks | 15:14 |
| bac | [topic] * Reviewer move to Friday? - bac | 15:14 |
| MootBot | New Topic: * Reviewer move to Friday? - bac | 15:14 |
| bac | our pool of reviewers has been pretty hard hit lately with personel changes | 15:14 |
| bac | https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerSchedule | 15:14 |
| bac | right now, on fridays we only have adeuring working | 15:15 |
| bac | would gmb or henninge entertain the idea of moving to friday? | 15:15 |
| gmb | bac, I believe adeuring is a Friday reviewer; I wonder if it's the best thing for hte bugs team to lose two devs on the same day... Not sure it matters though. | 15:16 |
| adeuring | not that I would mind sharing reviews with gmb or henninge, but I think if we have somebody in a US timezone would be better | 15:16 |
| bac | adeuring: yes it would be better | 15:16 |
| bac | adeuring: but of the active reviewers in the americas we're spread pretty thin | 15:16 |
| adeuring | right | 15:17 |
| gmb | bac, I'm happy to do it if deryck's okay with the change. | 15:17 |
| bac | i could move to friday but that leaves an americas hole on tuesday | 15:17 |
| henninge | I don't mind moving to Fridays | 15:17 |
| deryck | I don't know if I want gmb and adeuring sidelined fridays | 15:17 |
| bac | deryck: ok. henninge do you mind moving again? | 15:17 |
| henninge | bac: no problem at all | 15:18 |
| henninge | but, as was said, the problem is America | 15:18 |
| * henninge wonders if he should move west ... | 15:18 | |
| bac | henninge: let's not bring politics into the meeting | 15:18 |
| henninge | lol | 15:18 |
| henninge | But I was talking about the whole continent anyway ... | 15:19 |
| bac | henninge: why don't you try friday and if seems we have a problem i'll then switch | 15:19 |
| henninge | It's in the way of any girl that wants to sail around the world... | 15:19 |
| bac | [action] henninge to move to friday review EU review slot | 15:19 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: henninge to move to friday review EU review slot | 15:19 |
| intellectronica | bac: on the same subject, note that there's a slot freein on monday EU. when i'm gone there will be no reviewer until abentley gets workin, and judging by the last few mondays there's a lot of activity around that time. | 15:19 |
| bac | intellectronica: i know. i was hoping you'd change your mind before then. :) | 15:20 |
| henninge | intellectronica: where are you going, what did I miss? | 15:20 |
| bac | intellectronica: you can always help out on mondays as a community reviewer! | 15:20 |
| intellectronica | wow, i managed to omit all those Gs. i'm not lolcat speaking, it was as accident | 15:20 |
| intellectronica | :) | 15:20 |
| bac | intellectronica: what is the date for you leaving? | 15:21 |
| intellectronica | henninge: i'm leaving launchpad at the end of next week. | 15:21 |
| henninge | intellectronica: oh, too bad :( | 15:22 |
| henninge | ;) | 15:22 |
| bac | in light of that, perhaps it would make more sense for henninge to move to eu-monday and i move to friday | 15:22 |
| intellectronica | henninge: what can i do, all those monday review shifts finally got to me | 15:22 |
| henninge | :) | 15:22 |
| bac | henninge: let's talk about it off-line. | 15:23 |
| henninge | bac: ok | 15:23 |
| bac | [topic] peanut gallery | 15:23 |
| MootBot | New Topic: peanut gallery | 15:23 |
| bac | any new topics? | 15:23 |
| sinzui | orphaned commits | 15:23 |
| sinzui | This is the what we have so far: https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/QATeam/OrphanedCommits/10.05-devel | 15:24 |
| sinzui | Ursinha, noted that this class of landing was not tracked with bug tags last release | 15:25 |
| bac | hard to have a bug tag with no bug. | 15:25 |
| gary_poster | FWIW, If we talk about this here, I'd be +1 on this simply leading to someone taking an action item to raise this on the mailing list | 15:25 |
| sinzui | In the examples I saw related to the registry team they were contributor branches that were not linked to bugs | 15:26 |
| * mars is guilty of submitting build system cleanups without bugs. | 15:26 | |
| sinzui | Do we want contributor work to always have a link to a bug/spec | 15:26 |
| bac | i think reviewers should be on the look out for any MP that isn't linked to a bug. not saying it isn't sometimes appropriate but it should raise a flag. | 15:27 |
| intellectronica | sinzui: with contributor work it's even more important, because you want to help contributors plan and track the work before they start | 15:27 |
| bac | intellectronica: agreed. so sinzui's suggestion is a good one, IMO. | 15:27 |
| sinzui | Or in my case, remove part of the branch a week later because the feature is causing errors | 15:28 |
| bac | but only 2 of the 10.05 orphans are from community | 15:28 |
| sinzui | yes, there is another issue, but in the lp engineer case, flacoste assumes these are on the kanban board | 15:29 |
| bac | sinzui: well, that does help. but if we're going to track qa with bug tags then it would make sense to *require* a bug or we lose all QA testing...unless we employ a separate tracking mechanism. | 15:30 |
| BjornT | bac: if all we want is to track qa, filing a bug automatically sounds like a good idea | 15:31 |
| bac | BjornT: at what point? | 15:31 |
| * gary_poster idly thinks of a flag for branches that says "addresses" rather than "fixes" | 15:33 | |
| sinzui | The tags are hard to visualise at the moment since the page is missing: http://people.canonical.com/~lpqateam/test-plan-report-10.05.html | 15:33 |
| BjornT | bac: the script that scans commits and add qa tags probably | 15:33 |
| gary_poster | where addresses means that it is an incremental step towards a bug | 15:33 |
| gary_poster | but does not actually resolve a bug | 15:33 |
| * gary_poster suspects this is a can of worms | 15:34 | |
| henninge | BjornT: so it should create a bug if none is linked to the commit? | 15:34 |
| BjornT | henninge: if all we want is to track QA, yes, why not? | 15:35 |
| mars | gary_poster, that's why I'm not going to touch it :) | 15:35 |
| gary_poster | :-) | 15:35 |
| bac | sinzui: would you take an item to talk to QA and then make a proposal on the list, taking into account BjornT's suggestion? | 15:35 |
| henninge | BjornT: sounds like a good idea. Let's see if Ursinha likes it, too. | 15:35 |
| sinzui | yes | 15:35 |
| bac | thanks curtis | 15:36 |
| bac | [action] sinzui to talk to QA about our QA tracking problem and create a proposal on the mailing list | 15:36 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: sinzui to talk to QA about our QA tracking problem and create a proposal on the mailing list | 15:36 |
| bac | any other topic? | 15:36 |
| bac | 3 | 15:36 |
| bac | 2 | 15:36 |
| bac | 1 | 15:37 |
| bac | thanks for coming everyone. | 15:37 |
| bac | #endmeeting | 15:37 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:37. | 15:37 |
| mars | thanks bac | 15:37 |
| henninge | so, intellectronica, which team won you over and how? ;-) | 15:37 |
| intellectronica | henninge: the summer won me over. in a couple of weeks i'll be out of employment and ready to rock'n'roll :D | 15:38 |
| henninge | intellectronica: oh, because you said "leaving launchpad", I thought it was within the company. | 15:39 |
| henninge | intellectronica: so you have nothing new lined up yet? | 15:40 |
| intellectronica | henninge: nothing at all (other than some fun-related plans) | 15:40 |
| henninge | intellectronica: well, have fun, then! ;-D | 15:41 |
| intellectronica | henninge: thanks! | 15:41 |
| * Ursinha reads the backlog | 16:12 | |
| Ursinha | <BjornT> bac: if all we want is to track qa, filing a bug automatically sounds like a good idea | 16:12 |
| Ursinha | we dropped out that idea because some of the commits aren't really bugs | 16:12 |
| Ursinha | henninge, ^ | 16:13 |
| henninge | BjornT: ^ ;) | 16:13 |
| henninge | Ursinha: I think that is the point. | 16:13 |
| henninge | Ursinha: To track even those commits that aren't really bugs. | 16:13 |
| Ursinha | henninge, that's how the script would initially work, but I dropped the idea after chatting with francis | 16:14 |
| Ursinha | henninge, and why would we need that? | 16:14 |
| henninge | Ursinha: we were talking about orphaned commits. | 16:14 |
| Ursinha | henninge, I see now... but the point is that the orphaned commits aren't all the commits the don't mention bugs, but only those which should and don't | 16:16 |
| Ursinha | s/the don't/that dont/ | 16:16 |
| Ursinha | henninge, I guess that not a lot of those supposedly orphaned commits are really orphaned, maybe we could fix that by adding the bug tag to the commit message? | 16:19 |
| Ursinha | henninge, making that a pqm requirement, maybe | 16:19 |
| henninge | Ursinha: I am not sure they have bugs. It did not sound like that. | 16:21 |
| Ursinha | henninge, and they should? | 16:22 |
| * henninge has little own experience, he always files bugs... | 16:22 | |
| Ursinha | henninge, that's why I love you :P | 16:22 |
| * henninge blushes | 16:23 | |
| henninge | Ursinha: well, jtv trained me that way ... | 16:23 |
| Ursinha | henninge, I love him too :) | 16:23 |
| henninge | Ursinha: The question was "Should all commits have a bug so they are qa'ble". | 16:24 |
| Ursinha | henninge, my personal opinion is no | 16:24 |
| henninge | I was not aware of the definition for orphaned commits that you just gave. | 16:24 |
| henninge | "should have bug bug don't" | 16:24 |
| Ursinha | henninge, the idea of having a bug attached to a commit is to track the qa you have to do on it | 16:25 |
| henninge | Ursinha: you are the authority on QA here, so if that is your opinion, we are fine, I guess ... ;) | 16:25 |
| henninge | on the bug, you mean | 16:25 |
| Ursinha | of course having a bug for real fixes is needed to track problems and future reference | 16:25 |
| Ursinha | but now we really need to care about fixes that need qa, those need bugs | 16:25 |
| henninge | so the rule should be "If the fix will need qa, attach a bug. If it doesn't a bug is optional?" | 16:26 |
| henninge | Ursinha: don't all fixes need QA? | 16:27 |
| Ursinha | henninge, I thought so, but it turns out some are just adjustments that not necessarily can be qaed | 16:28 |
| henninge | Ursinha: I'll put that on the agenda for next week's meeting. | 16:28 |
| Ursinha | henninge, well, speaking roughly in practical qa terms, yes, but I'd like to have bugs to all problems we have, even the ones that result in commits we can't test | 16:29 |
| Ursinha | but that's my wish :) | 16:29 |
| Ursinha | or the ones that don't even need commits to lp tree to be fixed :) | 16:30 |
| === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch | ||
| === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado | ||
| === gary_poster is now known as gary-afk | ||
| === gary-afk is now known as gary_posrer | ||
| === gary_posrer is now known as gary_poster | ||
| === salgado is now known as salgado-afk | ||
| bac | thumper, rockstar: up for a reviewers meeting? | 22:33 |
| rockstar | bac, havin' our standup right now. | 22:33 |
| thumper | I might have to skip it this week | 22:33 |
| bac | rockstar: why do you schedule the standup during our meeting time? :) | 22:33 |
| bac | thumper: ok. not much said but talk about broken ec2 and rearranging of OCR schedules due to all the people moving around. | 22:34 |
| bac | next week... | 22:34 |
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