[01:29] <cjohnston> hggdh: it was very nice meeting you!
[03:30] <hggdh> cjohnston: same from here, pity we only really met at the end
[03:32] <nigelb> oh grr!
[03:32] <nigelb> I missed meeting a lot of people.  Sigh.
[03:39] <chotchki> oh crap did i miss the meeting?
[03:40] <chotchki> *sigh* it was ~10 hours ago wasn't it?
[03:43] <mrand> unfortunately, yes
[03:45] <chotchki> i guess its a good incentive to vote in the meeting time poll :)
[03:49] <mrand> indeed, although last I looked,  8pm UTC Wednesday was the favorite by far.  The people that can't make that can make it a few hours earlier, so perhaps every other month, do it at 8pm or a few hours earlier.
[03:57] <chotchki> mrand, do you know if the meeting is logged at all? (its in the middle of the work day for me) ...
[04:01] <ddecator> if not officially, a lot of us log this channel
[04:02] <mrand> chotchki:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/18/%23ubuntu-bugs.html#t17:00
[04:03] <chotchki> cool thank you!
[09:17] <alvin> If a man page is missing, do you have to file a bug against the package itself(do-release-upgrade in this case), or against man-db?
[13:09] <juris> hello if i have 19 files to add to bug report is it better to add them one by one or all zipped?
[13:12] <juris> or maybe from email if i send in one email all 19 files they will be added as one comment? can then i also send to bugnumber@bugs.launchpad.net even if i havent been sucribed to that bug? but LP will recognize my email and add my email as from my username?
[13:19] <vish> juris: why 19 files?  better to use apport-collect
[13:21] <vish> apport-collect if there is an apport-hook in place..
[13:22] <aburch> alvin: man pages are provided by the individual packages.  Bugs for it should thus also be filed againt individual packages.
[13:25] <alvin> aburch: Thanks
[15:26] <bullgard> X crase
[15:29] <bullgard> X crashed repeatedly. startx: "Fatal server error: Failed to submit batchbuffer. Input/output error". What package should I report this error against? x11-apps?
[15:40] <kermiac> seb128: are you around? nigelb told me you're the one to ask for another apport hook to work on
[15:52] <hggdh> bullgard: if X as a whole crashed, then probably xserver-xorg
[15:58] <bullgard> hggdh: Thank you very much for your help.
[16:00] <nigelb> hggdh: seems like ddecator and kermiac are bought to help with apport hooks ;)
[16:00] <hggdh> nigelb: fantastic! And thanks to both ddecator and kermiac for helping
[16:01] <seb128> kermiac, hi, thanks for working on those
[16:02] <kermiac> hggdh: seb128, no probs. Glad to help :)
[16:02] <seb128> kermiac, you can work on adding an hook to indicator-applet to add .cache/indicator-applet*.log
[16:03] <hggdh> seb128: how about getting back on the stacktrace cleanup I started looong ago? Is it worth it?
[16:03] <seb128> hggdh, seems it would be a good one too
[16:04] <alex_mayorga> hi! anyone that can tell me if Bug #581385 is useful as it is or there's anything I should provide?
[16:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 581385 in nouveau-firmware (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "nouveau doesn't work on a Sony VAIO VPCCW (GT 230M) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581385
[16:04] <kermiac> seb128: ok,.cache/indicator-applet*.log is all that is needed for indicator-applet?
[16:04] <seb128> kermiac, can you join #ayatana and ask tedg?
[16:05] <kermiac> seb128: ok, will do
[16:05] <seb128> thanks
[16:05] <hggdh> kermiac, ddecator: if you have free time, I would like to discuss a hook to clean up stacktraces
[16:06] <hggdh> kermiac: of course, after you are done with this one ;-)
[16:07] <kermiac> hggdh: yeah, no probs hggdh :)
[16:29] <nigelb> hggdh: hm, I'll kick off the mail soon enough
[16:39]  * nigelb mailed the apport hook creation mail
[16:41] <vish> nigelb: hey , turns out people are choosing the wrong option for the cheese hook :s , we should probably drop the option and just do the debugging always
[16:42] <nigelb> vish: question, are those cases where you actually *do* want debug?
[16:42] <vish> nigelb: yup.. ;)
[16:45] <nigelb> I really don't want to collect debug every time
[16:45] <nigelb> its not very user friendly
[16:45] <nigelb> vish: gimme a day to go through the bugs
[16:46]  * nigelb hits 'send' for another mail
[16:48] <vish> nigelb: yeah , but it turns out the wording for the debugging option is "camera not working or detected" and the bugs turn out to be about - the video not recording properly or some small error , which the user thinks is not the 1st option.. eventually we need debugging for those too..
[16:49] <nigelb> vish: ah, then we need to just change the output
[16:49] <nigelb> oh grr, txt prompt
[16:50] <nigelb> come up with something more sensible and add to the bug you assigned to me
[16:50] <nigelb> I almost got it done, just need to make it prettier
[16:50] <vish> nigelb: and i dont think there is a bug which doesnt require a debug :)   further i think we need to check the output from gstreamer-properties as well , turns out some of the bugs are kernel problems
[16:51] <nigelb> those are corner cases
[16:51] <nigelb> vish: debug *every* time? oh grr. ok.
[16:52] <bullgard> "Your gdm log files may help developers diagnose the bug, but may contain sensitive information. Do you want to include these logs in your bug report?" What might be the most sensible information there? There are many gdm logs. For example I found in /var/log/gdm/:0-slave.log.3 an informationen if I need a password to log in or not. Is there there even more sensible information?
[16:52] <vish> nigelb: nope , not corner cases , i have switched 10-15 bugs over to kernel ..
[16:53] <vish> nigelb: turns out the webcam isnt detected, and the user thinks its cheese's fault ;)
[16:53] <nigelb> vish: can't make a hook for that
[16:54] <nigelb> its easier to close the bug and ask OP to open new bug with 'ubuntu-bug linux''
[16:55] <nigelb> vish: btw, check your mail.  see if any mails from me hit yet.  I sent 2 mails to bug squad list
[16:55] <nigelb> one about apport and one about epiphany
[16:55] <vish> nigelb: yeah , not sure how we do that.. but was thinking if we can call up the test video like how check box does and ask if it is the same problem again , and instead as the user to file a bug using "ubuntu-bug linux"
[16:56] <charlie-tca> bullgard: if the question is asked, that is not sensitive information. It is only sensitive if the password is in the log
[16:56] <vish> nigelb: nope no mails yet
[16:56] <nigelb> vish: nope, kernel guys want *all* the info
[16:56] <nigelb> vish: hm, stragnge
[16:57] <bullgard> charlie-tca: Thank you for answering.
[16:57] <vish> nigelb: yeah.. thats why i mention to ask user to file a "ubuntu-bug linux"
[16:57] <vish> instead
[16:57] <vish> nigelb: since that is where the problem is and they can do the upstream testing and be done with it on the same day
[16:58] <nigelb> there are limitations to hook, only so far that we can go
[16:58] <nigelb> the best hook I've seen in the rhythmbox hook (well I wrote it myself) but it gets the right details and asks the right questions
[16:59] <nigelb> thats really what hooks are meant to do
[16:59] <vish> i like the kernel hook better ;p
[16:59] <nigelb> kernel just dumps every single information
[16:59] <nigelb> here, a semi triage is already done at the hook level
[17:00] <vish> nigelb: isnt checkbox somewhat loosely  similar to the apport hooks?
[17:02] <arand_> e2fsprogs, does it have an upstream bugtracker?
[17:02] <vish> one problem is people dont like responding to bugs :(  no one seems to like to debug it or provide the information.. they just expect to submit a report and be done with it and get it fixed
[17:03] <nigelb> vish: loosely yes, but I dunno how much of an api it has to extend it
[17:03] <nigelb> checkbox is mainly for testing
[17:07] <vish> nigelb: the problem i notice is , user files a bug , "the video is inverted" ..  he has to run debugging [ which is now collected by the hook] and then we need to check and again ask user to check with gstreamer-properties.. and the double checking requires user to reply again , where some rarely reply :s  .. instead if we check with gstreamer-properties during the initial submission and divert the bugs to kernel it is better to get the bug in the rig
[17:07] <vish> ht place
[17:08] <nigelb> what exactly do you want to check in gsteamer properties?
[17:11] <vish> nigelb: some bugs we have to ask user if the inverted video or colors are the same when testing with the "default input" in gstreamer-properties  , video tab
[17:11] <vish> nigelb: cheese just reads the gstreamer pipeline
[17:11] <nigelb> vish: no, no.  we can't do that in a hook.  I really don't want users to get confused.
[17:12] <vish> nigelb: why confused?
[17:13] <nigelb> giving that much intruction in a hook is complicated
[17:13] <nigelb> I really dont want to go into that
[17:15] <vish> nigelb: hmm , i think i confused you.. ;p   what i meant was when user files a bug :1> tests cheese and reproduces the problem , then 2> gstreamer-properties is fired up , we ask , do you notice the same problem,, if yes.. ask user to file a linux bug.. if no file cheese bug
[17:15] <vish> nigelb: a lot of the cheese bugs are mostly "webcam not detected"
[17:16] <nigelb> vish: so what do you want to do now?
[17:16] <nigelb> I thought you want to do the gstreamer-properties thing on the cheese hook and if it fails file linux bug
[17:17] <vish> nigelb: no.. if it fails just add a dialogue saying "retry and file a bug with "ubuntu-bug linux"  "
[17:17] <vish> no need to do it in the cheese hook
[17:17] <vish> with better wording ofcourse ;p
[17:18] <nigelb> nope, no way thats goign to be easy through a hook.  I'm strongly -1 for that.  Not about being able to do it.  but about doing it without confusing user.
[17:19] <vish> nigelb: bleh..
[17:19] <nigelb> yeah
[17:19] <vish> nigelb: well , anyway , most of the cheese bugs the users never respond since we are asking them to check again..
[17:19] <vish> but whatever ;p
[17:19] <nigelb> vish: then close them, meh.
[17:20] <vish> nigelb: yeah , remove hook  doesnt help fully either ;)
[17:20] <nigelb> at some point you need a chatty OP
[17:20] <nigelb> only then any sort of triaging is goign to happen
[17:21] <nigelb> I'm headed to bed now, later.
[17:21] <vish> nigelb: well , today i had to run a gdb for the user's crash since it is easily reproducible ;)
[17:34] <nigelb> bdmurray: there was an old action item of getting packages against which the last 1000 bugs were filed.  do you still have the script?
[17:35] <nigelb> I was wondering we could get the list of top packages of bugs filed against maverick without an apport hook
[17:35] <nigelb> Perhaps we can work on getting those numbers prettier by maverick :)
[17:35] <nigelb> s/maverick/lucid for the first time
[17:41] <ali1234> surely what you actually want is packages sorted by number of incomplete bugs
[17:42] <om26er> there are a few bug reports which show ubuntu version 10.10 where are those people getting 10.10 ?
[17:42] <bdmurray> after upgrading!
[17:42] <bdmurray> nigelb: please e-mail me I surely have the script and could help with that
[17:43] <nigelb> bdmurray: awesome! I'll email you :)
[17:45] <om26er> how should linux mint bugs be treated ?
[18:05] <vish> nigelb: hmm , i didnt understand why you think it is confusing.. :s
[18:09] <pionar> bug #580308 reports an error in update-manager having to do with some font package that causes the upgrade not to happen, but in the logs, it seems that the update didn't happen because apt couldn't download from any of the repos he had set.  How should that be handled?
[18:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 580308 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "upgrade to lucid (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580308
[18:13] <pionar> anyone?
[18:14] <charlie-tca> pionar: after the reporter fixed the repos, was he able to upgrade?
[18:15] <pionar> doesn't say
[18:16] <charlie-tca> Some things are out of our hands. It is a good idea to give information on how to complete the upgrade/clear the configuration if the issue is not something we caused.
[18:16] <charlie-tca> The bug can then be marked invalid
[18:16] <pionar> charlie-tca: thanks
[18:16] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[18:22] <charlie-tca> pionar: thanks for helping with bugs
[18:27] <pionar> charlie-tca: i'm trying! :)
[18:27] <charlie-tca> You are doing a great job
[18:33] <ddecator> hggdh: sure thing. i'm about to go to class (and not sure how long you'll be on), but i will be on after class and tonight if you want to talk
[18:33] <jibel> pionar, regarding the bug above, the main.log and term.log don't look like coming from the same upgrade session.
[18:34] <jibel> main.log stops at 2010-05-13 13:03:39,942 and aptterm.log starts at Log started: 2010-05-13  20:54:28
[18:34] <jibel> pionar, the OP problably retried the upgrade and the download issue is not relevant anymore.
[18:35] <jibel> pionar, it rather looks like a perl setup issue according to the error "Can't locate File/Copy.pm"
[18:37] <pionar> i see
[18:44] <jibel> pionar is gone ? did I say something frightening ?
[18:46] <ddecator> i don't think so. maybe s/he just had to go? haha
[18:50] <mvo> jibel: indeed, looks like a perl error :/
[18:55] <jibel> well, triage of this report is not finished it seems to be a real issue with predependencies on perl-module. same issue in 8.10 : bug 510976
[18:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 510976 in doc-base (Ubuntu) "Package failed to unpack : Can't locate Pod/Usage.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/sbin/install-docs line 18. (affects: 1) (dups: 2) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510976
[19:08] <mvo> jibel: oh :(
[19:08] <mvo> jibel: well, this time we have "systemstate.tar.gz", so hopefully I can create a way to reproduce it
[19:13]  * mvo hugs jibel and vanishes for the evening 
[19:15]  * jibel hugs mvo back and wishes him a nice evening
[19:39] <mistrynitesh> well it is 20th in my timezone, so starting with the 'Hug Day
[19:40] <mistrynitesh> what should be done to bug 582432?
[19:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582432 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update manager should cache changelog information by url (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582432
[19:40] <mistrynitesh> the reporter seems to suggest some improvement for the package - the importance seems low
[20:04] <deuxpi> mistrynitesh: I guess the request for enhancement is reasonable and should be set to 'Wishlist'
[20:26] <mistrynitesh> deuxpi: 'Wishlist' not in status list. If it is 'importance' value, I do not have permissions to change it.
[20:27] <mistrynitesh> even I was looking for the same
[20:30] <deuxpi> mistrynitesh: You are right, but someone from bug control can do it
[20:34] <mistrynitesh> deuxpi: ok, thanks for helping
[20:36] <mistrynitesh> in bug 577568 the reporter was upgrading from karmic to lucid
[20:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 577568 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Could not install the upgrades (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577568
[20:36] <mistrynitesh> main.log indicates problem with installing 'fglrx'
[20:38] <hggdh> mistrynitesh: bug 582432 wishlisted
[20:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582432 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update manager should cache changelog information by url (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582432
[20:39] <mistrynitesh> should it be reassigned, if so whether to 'fglrx-driver' or 'fglrx-installer'?
[20:39] <mistrynitesh> hggdh: thanks :)
[20:43] <hggdh> mistrynitesh: for 577568: I am unsure, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/436351/
[20:43] <hggdh> (this is from the term.log)
[20:49] <jibel> mistrynitesh, hggdh its a dup of bug 565407
[20:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 565407 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "package fglrx (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 - inst_path_default or inst_path_override does not exist in /etc/ati when ATI Drivers are previously installed (affects: 114) (dups: 16) (heat: 599)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565407
[20:50] <hggdh> jibel: merci beaucoup; mistrynitesh will you set it as a dup?
[20:50] <mistrynitesh> hggdh: sure
[20:51] <mistrynitesh> uii... jibel already did that!
[20:51] <hggdh> heh
[20:52] <jibel> mistrynitesh, sorry, you've found it, its yours :)
[20:53] <mistrynitesh> yes its mine :P
[20:54] <hggdh> precioussss
[20:55] <mistrynitesh> time to sleep, see you people tomorrow :)
[21:00] <ddecator> hggdh: did you want to talk now, or wait and talk to kermiac and i at the same time?
[21:01] <hggdh> ddecator: probably better with kermiac in also. This deals with an old idea of mine, of cleaning up private data from stacktraces
[21:02] <ddecator> hggdh: yah, that sounds like a great idea. not sure when he will be on since we're all in different time zones. when are you generally online?
[21:03] <hggdh> ddecator: so let's get on it. I am usually in from about 0730-1930 CDT (UTC-5)
[21:04] <hggdh> ddecator: a long time ago I started writing an apport-hook for Evolution. It was quite easy, until I decided to clean up the stacktraces
[21:05] <ddecator> hggdh: good, we're in the same timezone so that helps. kermiac is in australia, so i know he gets on later. if he doesn't get on before 7:30 tonight then i'll figure out what times he's on and figure out what time in the morning i can get on
[21:05] <hggdh> ddecator: deal
[21:40] <QA_linux> Hi
[21:40] <QA_linux> i want to helo to be a QA for ubuntu
[21:40] <QA_linux> i think this the right place to star
[21:41] <ddecator> QA_linux: this is one of the many places you can start :)
[21:41] <ddecator> QA_linux: do you have any questions?
[21:41] <QA_linux> yes
[21:42] <QA_linux> what i need to kwow or to do for start doing QA for linux
[21:42] <QA_linux> for ubuntu
[21:43] <ddecator> QA_linux: well are you looking to help with bug triage?
[21:44] <QA_linux> ok
[21:44] <QA_linux> what do you need__
[21:44] <QA_linux> ??
[21:44] <QA_linux> just tell me what you need
[21:45] <ddecator> QA_linux: well this channel helps with bug triage. info on the BugSquad can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[21:45] <QA_linux> what i can do for estar testing the test cases or something stuff like that
[21:47] <QA_linux> but tomorrow is the day bug
[21:47] <QA_linux> right??
[21:47] <yofel> QA_linux: for general QA work you should start  at http://qa.ubuntu.com/
[21:48] <QA_linux> ok thanks
[21:48] <Aquina> I think you should read the online documents first, QA_linux.
[21:48] <yofel> this here is the home of the bugsquad as ddecator said and we help taking care of the bug reports that come in from testers
[21:48] <hggdh> well, it happens that bug triaging is one of the QA activities, let's not forget that
[21:49] <yofel> there is #ubuntu-testing for stuff like upgrade/ISO testing, and #ubuntu+1 for general discussion about the development version of ubuntu
[21:49] <QA_linux> ok thanks a lor for the information
[21:49] <yofel> hggdh: yep, sry if I was unclear about that
[21:50] <hggdh> yofel: you we not wrong, I just wanted to be sure QA_linux understood it
[21:50] <yofel> sure, np
[21:52] <QA_linux> so here is for general discuss about ubuntu
[21:52] <QA_linux> ??
[21:54] <ddecator> QA_linux: this might help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
[21:54] <Aquina> QA_linux I guess you'd rather like to join #ubuntu for general discussions and help.
[22:18] <Cynthia> (From #ubuntu, I was told to go here) How would I go about making a request for optimising the PNG and SVG files with OptiPNG and Scour.py, in either all repo packages OR the files as they appear on the LiveCD?
[22:18] <Cynthia> I ran them in a customisation script for the 10.04 iso image, and this saved 12 megabytes. Perhaps this would help add more software in future versions, such as Meerkat.
[22:22] <David-T> Cynthia: um #ubuntu-bugs doesn't seem like the right place for that
[22:23] <David-T> not sure what would be mind. although you could try filing a bug if all else fails
[22:26] <Cynthia> looks like I was mistakenly referred to here by someone in #ubuntu then, sorry for the inconvenience :)
[22:47] <pionar> hey, did i do this right: #582942 is a bug report for eye of gnome.  I didn't see a matching report in gnome's bugzilla, so i added one and linked to the launchpad bug.
[23:02] <yofel> bug 582942
[23:02]  * BUGabundo_Chuck kicks the bot
[23:02] <BUGabundo_Chuck> oh wait
[23:02] <BUGabundo_Chuck> bug #582942
[23:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582942 in eog (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "eye of gnome does not open files depending on name/extension (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582942
[23:03] <yofel> ...
[23:09] <BUGabundo_DrHous> fu fu