| c7p | godbyk: Typically a screeshot is on the top of the page and then the text follows. Is there any problem if I move some text before screenshot (actually put the screenshot after a paragraph that is slit by it) | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
| c7p | split* | 00:45 |
| c7p | godbyk: When you find some time, send me an e-mail about what can we do about the "movement" of screenshots. Some screenshots have to be placed after some paragraphs or even on different pages... (I have sent you 1-2 mails on your gmail so I guess you have my e-mail address :D) | 01:03 |
| c7p | long day .... night all | 01:03 |
| flan | Finally home. | 02:54 |
| * flan hax test code. | 02:55 | |
| flan | Bleh. I forgot to push my Quickshot commits from work. | 03:02 |
| flan | Website leaf naming convention: nouns or verbs? | 04:19 |
| flan | (index/list_projects, screenshot/upload) | 04:20 |
| flan | Anyone with substantial development experience have a preference? | 04:20 |
| flan | Or is it generally fine to just use whatever makes sense? | 04:21 |
| * flan went with nouns. | 04:57 | |
| flan | Next design thing: construct archives in-memory or on-disk? | 04:59 |
| flan | Actually, I can't do it in-memory, so that's a non-issue. | 05:00 |
| flan | Ooh. I can combine the tempfile module and the tarfile module. Yay for Python. | 05:03 |
| humphreybc | lol | 05:04 |
| humphreybc | I'm enjoying just watching you talk to yourself | 05:05 |
| flan | I think better when I've convinced people care about my musings. | 05:06 |
| flan | I'm* | 05:06 |
| flan | URL mapping rules defined. Now for sleep. | 05:35 |
| flan | (I can actually start playing with templating and data tomorrow! Yay!) | 05:35 |
| * humphreybc is super tired | 08:19 | |
| czajkowski | humphreybc: ping | 08:29 |
| humphreybc | czajkowski: ello | 08:32 |
| flan | ubuntujenkins, after a bit of reflecting, I kinda think it might make more sense to go with reStructuredText for documentation, after all. We're not building a library, so the main benefits of epytext would be lost, and Pylons, which I'm using for the server, auto-generates reST stubs everywhere, in addition to using it as the project-encompasing document template standard. | 15:02 |
| ubuntujenkins | flan: that fine by me can you mail the list and update this page please | 15:04 |
| ubuntujenkins | ?style | 15:04 |
| quickshotdevs | The Quickshot code base tries to follow some conventions a list of them is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/style . | 15:04 |
| flan | I will. I was kinda hoping you'd link to that so I wouldn't have to go looking. :) | 15:04 |
| ubuntujenkins | no probelm the bot currently has these commands | 15:05 |
| ubuntujenkins | ?help | 15:05 |
| quickshotdevs | Useage: +<factoid> Examples: +website , +blueprint , +qssource , +involved , +question , +style , +use , +ppa , +quickshot , +code , +launchpad , +bug | 15:05 |
| ubuntujenkins | except its not a + any more i need to change that its now ? people +1 ing was confusing it | 15:06 |
| flan | Launchpad is an OpenID provider? Weird... | 15:06 |
| thorwil | flan: so Pylons is to your liking? found any stumbling blocks? | 15:11 |
| flan | I accidentally sent my first response directly to you, Luke. Please ignore my momentary stupid. | 15:20 |
| flan | I'm liking it more as I read through its reference documentation, but I've yet to actually start gluing its pieces together, thorwil. | 15:20 |
| flan | I'll be able to answer you this weekend. | 15:20 |
| flan | Or maybe today. | 15:20 |
| thorwil | cool | 15:21 |
| flan | Since I plan to make the first connection between controller, template, and data-model soon. | 15:21 |
| flan | It's looking pretty awesome, though. | 15:21 |
| flan | As far as providing a flexible framework with enough standards to allow for collaboarative development goes, anyway. | 15:21 |
| thorwil | i wonder if https://fedorahosted.org/moksha/, which adds to turbogears (which adds to pylons) will be useful. it seems it's too early, no adoption yet at all | 15:24 |
| flan | This is a pretty simple system, really. Pylons, by itself, seems more than capable of handling it. | 15:25 |
| flan | (I also want to keep dependencies light) | 15:25 |
| flan | (Since this needs to run on one of our webhosts) | 15:25 |
| flan | (While mine is super-Python-friendly, godby-k's is a little more conservative) | 15:26 |
| flan | (I can easily handle the traffic for 10.10, though, if it comes to that) | 15:26 |
| thorwil | it's quite sad how virtually every hoster supports php, but python? i found some who just list it as checkmark item somewhere, with no version and no word aboust wsgi. if at all | 15:29 |
| godbyk-sagan | thorwil: I agree. | 15:30 |
| godbyk-sagan | my host doesn't have good wsgi support, it seems. | 15:30 |
| godbyk-sagan | (at least from what I've gathered) | 15:30 |
| flan | It has wsgi support as a side-effect of a Rails module. | 15:32 |
| flan | Which is good enough. | 15:32 |
| flan | But it's not very happy-making. | 15:32 |
| flan | Mine used to have the name "python-hosting.com", though. | 15:32 |
| flan | Which is the main reason I looked at them. | 15:32 |
| rickspencer3 | Hi all | 15:33 |
| * flan makes decisions based on poor information. | 15:33 | |
| flan | Hi, you. | 15:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | hello rickspencer3 | 15:33 |
| godbyk-sagan | flan: true, but I don't know how good it actually is. | 15:34 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm working on the application developer manual blueprint | 15:35 |
| flan | I read into it a bit before deciding to actually use Pylons, after thorwil's initial recommendation. | 15:35 |
| flan | It looks like it works reliably and reasonably efficiently. | 15:35 |
| flan | Nobody was complaining and there were a number of guides on setting it up. | 15:35 |
| flan | I'm going to try to be as aggressive as possible with memory-management, though. | 15:36 |
| flan | (Whether that means using disk for caching stuff or tuning the GC in some way) | 15:36 |
| flan | But, again, worst-case, I can host this thing easily. And the public site will be written in PHP, since it'll be all-static, with the exception of its bulletin-board thing. | 15:37 |
| flan | So that can easily live on your host. | 15:38 |
| rickspencer3 | can you guys help me out with the bluerprint? | 15:39 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm trying to figure out what tasks I'll need to do as editor of the manual | 15:39 |
| rickspencer3 | https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-m-opportunistic-developer-manual | 15:39 |
| flan | A critical sense of judgment about what constitutes a best-practice approach and what tools are best-suited to accomplising tasks would be valuable. | 15:51 |
| flan | i.e., not recommending Perl for cases where readability and maintainability are important (things that would likely be better-served by Python) and not recommending building an application framework from scratch when well-established frameworks exist that already do all of the common work. | 15:52 |
| flan | Probably just knowing enough about available tools and technologies to correct the writers when they provide outdated information or repeat myths. | 15:54 |
| flan | Is that the sort of thing you're wondering about? | 15:55 |
| flan | rickspencer3, Dive Into Python has fallen out of favour (though I'd still recommend it to some people). | 16:28 |
| ubuntujenkins | flan http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/daily-digest-windicator-mock-ups.html the e-mail is out :) | 16:28 |
| flan | I can't remember what's currently popular, but you can find it in the topic of #python. | 16:29 |
| flan | (I'm not in there because I get distracted far too easily) | 16:29 |
| flan | Ooh. Windicator looks like a good use of the new whitepsace. | 16:30 |
| flan | Lawl, me making typos. | 16:30 |
| flan | Told you I'd miss something. | 16:30 |
| rickspencer3 | flan, yeah, I'm working on the work items now | 16:39 |
| ChrisWoollard | Hey all. How are you. | 17:10 |
| ubuntujenkins | hello, I am good you? | 17:11 |
| ChrisWoollard | Ok. | 17:11 |
| ChrisWoollard | I feel I have not really been on irc much recently | 17:12 |
| ChrisWoollard | I haven't really paid much attention to what hasbeen going on. | 17:13 |
| flan | I've seen your namy many times, without actually knowing who you are. | 17:14 |
| flan | (I recently nickchanged from Red_HamsterX; I'm some Quickshot guy) | 17:14 |
| ChrisWoollard | Hello | 17:17 |
| flan | Hi. | 17:17 |
| ChrisWoollard | I guess I am some Translation / whatever I can do kind of guy. | 17:18 |
| ChrisWoollard | Why the change from Red_Hamster | 17:19 |
| flan | It was awkward and silly. | 17:19 |
| flan | (This handle was taken, though) | 17:19 |
| ChrisWoollard | I guess it isn't now | 17:20 |
| flan | Nope. | 17:20 |
| flan | Just telling you who I am, in case you've been lurking. | 17:20 |
| ChrisWoollard | Lurking.... That sounds scary | 17:21 |
| flan | It just means someone who watches a discussion without participating. | 17:23 |
| ChrisWoollard | I do like to participate. I have just been busy recently | 17:26 |
| flan | Oh, I'm not trying to imply anything. | 17:27 |
| flan | I'm just trying to minimize confusion. | 17:27 |
| flan | And failing. | 17:27 |
| * flan fails a lot. | 17:27 | |
| ChrisWoollard | Never mind. I often find confusion occurs a lot while writing. | 17:28 |
| flan | Summary: I used to be someone else. You did not know who I was. Therefore, no knowledge needs to be ported from one identity to another. | 17:38 |
| ChrisWoollard | Summary: I was aware of you, so knowing about the name change was useful. | 17:39 |
| ChrisWoollard | Just out of interest. What happened to the UK translation of the manual again. It appears that the translations have changed again to "NNeeds Review"..... again.... | 17:42 |
| ubuntujenkins | iirc there was a reason it happend but i can't remeber what it was | 17:43 |
| flan | Unfortunately, I don't know anything about how translations states work. :( | 17:43 |
| flan | -s | 17:43 |
| quickshotdevs | flan: Error: "s" is not a valid command. | 17:43 |
| * ubuntujenkins gggrrr silly bot | 17:44 | |
| ChrisWoollard | I remember that godbyk fixed it last time. | 17:45 |
| ChrisWoollard | I do also vaguely remember that there is a bug that Humphrybc has going to talk to the launchpad devs about at uds | 17:46 |
| flan | I think that bug was addressed. | 17:46 |
| flan | Whatever it was. | 17:46 |
| flan | Someone announced that some Launchpad issue was fixed following a UDS discussion and then people cheered. | 17:47 |
| ubuntujenkins | I thought the tempoary fix to that bug was to disable po editing and not allow manual imports | 17:47 |
| ChrisWoollard | That sounds about right | 17:47 |
| flan | Or my memory's broken. | 17:48 |
| * flan shouldn't comment on things that don't directly affect him. | 17:48 | |
| ChrisWoollard | It could also be my memory that is broken. | 17:48 |
| ubuntujenkins | or mine :) | 17:48 |
| ChrisWoollard | Bottom line though. Something has made it happen again | 17:49 |
| ubuntujenkins | hhmm | 17:49 |
| ChrisWoollard | I guess I will mention it to Godbyk when he turns up | 17:50 |
| dutchie | o/ | 18:09 |
| flan | Hi, dutchie. | 18:34 |
| dutchie | thorwil: re he-mark, err, what? | 19:04 |
| thorwil | dutchie: it's an exercise in restraint and seriousness | 19:16 |
| dutchie | thorwil: what's with the darth vader-alike in the background? | 19:17 |
| thorwil | dutchie: like i wrote on the blog, a koala-skeletor didn't work | 19:18 |
| dutchie | ha | 19:20 |
| flan | But Skeletor always wins! | 19:25 |
| thorwil | i hate sony music, but it was not very wise of Ben to use some of "their" music for his UDS video | 20:12 |
| flan | "their" referring to which label? | 20:14 |
| * flan hasn't watched it. | 20:14 | |
| thorwil | sony | 20:16 |
| thorwil | godbyk-sagan: http://www.advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=420 | 20:39 |
| flan | Ooh. More fonts. | 20:43 |
| * ubuntujenkins likes it now the channel has a few more people in again | 21:37 | |
| ubuntujenkins | flan: as a wish list item for this release if we have time I would quite like to add apport support. This does tie us into 'buntu distros, may be we can add it as a option in the build. I am looking into how hard it is etc. It would make bug reports easier. What is your opinion on this? | 21:42 |
| dutchie | you can always patch it in to the ubuntu client | 21:43 |
| dutchie | lots of already-existing packages do that iirc | 21:43 |
| ubuntujenkins | it looks like it is easy to do, only a handful of lines of code. I think it would make life easier. | 21:44 |
| ubuntujenkins | When people submit bugs there is a list of things that would help us with it but people don't always read it. | 21:45 |
| flan | We're going to be maintaining Ubuntu/UMP-specific patches. Making it part of the .deb build process should be pretty easy. | 22:03 |
| flan | (I've added patches against .debs on the Debian side before) | 22:04 |
| ubuntujenkins | cool, we also have to do a make file i guess | 22:04 |
| flan | (It was generally just a matter of making sure the patches were in the right directories and indexed in the serial application file) | 22:04 |
| flan | We'll worry about that when we get to it. :) | 22:05 |
| flan | I'm sure there are other packages we can leech from. | 22:05 |
| flan | (I've never actually done a Python makefile before, but they aren't so bad for C) | 22:05 |
| ubuntujenkins | good, I have never done any patching stuff. I think this will be another steap learning curve :) | 22:05 |
| flan | Patching's easy. =P | 22:05 |
| dutchie | generally you use distutils for python | 22:05 |
| flan | bzr branch, hack stuff, bzr diff > patch | 22:05 |
| dutchie | rather than make | 22:05 |
| flan | Yeah. | 22:06 |
| flan | But ubuntujenkins is the only one of us who's built a .deb from scratch. | 22:06 |
| flan | As far as I know. | 22:06 |
| flan | I've just altered existing ones. | 22:06 |
| dutchie | i think i have. once. a long time ago | 22:06 |
| ubuntujenkins | I tend to cheet and use quicklys help there is abit of hacking needed on it. | 22:07 |
| ubuntujenkins | Do we want to packages the server? | 22:07 |
| ubuntujenkins | I have learnt allot about packaging what with the latex ppa | 22:07 |
| flan | I'm not sure how well packaging the server would work. | 22:08 |
| flan | I've seen a few PHP-based systems packaged and it's always been awkward to configure them. | 22:09 |
| flan | Or, actually, no, that's just been the ones packaged by third parties. | 22:09 |
| flan | We could probably use the Wikimedia packages or something as a reference. | 22:09 |
| flan | I'll restructure the directories a bit once I have something working, to try to make that a viable idea. | 22:10 |
| ubuntujenkins | I don't know it was just an out loud thought. It does rely on people having a "standard" setup | 22:10 |
| flan | As for apport itself, I think that'd be a really good idea. | 22:10 |
| flan | I hate the thought of bugs going unreported due to users being overwhelmed or too busy. | 22:10 |
| flan | And Ubuntu's our main focus, so we might as well make use of its features to make out stuff better. | 22:11 |
| ubuntujenkins | yea and it doesn't look like much work aprox 10 - 20 lines if i understand it right | 22:11 |
| flan | I'm guessing it's just a top-level exception-grabber. | 22:11 |
| ubuntujenkins | basically we have to get it to grab log files so, quickhsot must make a log file in /var/logs | 22:14 |
| ubuntujenkins | thats my understanding of it atm | 22:14 |
| flan | Got a link? | 22:14 |
| ubuntujenkins | I spend 5 mins looking. emm handon ... | 22:14 |
| ubuntujenkins | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Apport/DeveloperHowTo | 22:15 |
| flan | I think you misunderstood that part (which is good for us, 'cause it means we don't have to mess with /var/logs unless we have to) | 22:17 |
| ubuntujenkins | ok i didn't read it properly i did skim it :) | 22:17 |
| flan | The example is just adding the contents of a logfile to the report that'll be submitted. | 22:17 |
| flan | But it's cool that it can do things like that, since it means we can add whatever we want to the report. | 22:18 |
| flan | Which means we can probably implement some sort of step-tracer in the design. | 22:18 |
| flan | Like an in-memory log. | 22:18 |
| flan | Every time the user advances through a dialogue box or clicks something, we could log that event, like what we were doing with the --debug flag in 0.0.8. | 22:19 |
| ubuntujenkins | thats what i was going to ask about | 22:19 |
| flan | If it dies, we could just attach that thing as a big string. | 22:19 |
| flan | And then trace every single step. | 22:20 |
| ubuntujenkins | I think this would be good in so many ways | 22:20 |
| flan | Agreed. | 22:20 |
| flan | Excellent idea. | 22:20 |
| * ubuntujenkins adds it to the todo list | 22:20 | |
| flan | Must-have. | 22:21 |
| ubuntujenkins | added it to my list | 22:21 |
| ubuntujenkins | I am liking tracks for my organising | 22:22 |
| flan | I'm still working off of http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ | 22:22 |
| ubuntujenkins | I think ther si a page on the wiki .... | 22:23 |
| ubuntujenkins | ?plan | 22:23 |
| quickshotdevs | Factoid 'plan' not found | 22:23 |
| ubuntujenkins | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/next-release-plan | 22:23 |
| flan | Oh, but it looks like the hook doesn't share memory with the client... | 22:25 |
| flan | (i.e., it's launched externally) | 22:26 |
| flan | (Which is kinda good, in that it means we won't need to change our core code to make use of it) | 22:26 |
| flan | We'll probably have to write a per-session activity log to .quickshot/debug/log or something, then. | 22:27 |
| ubuntujenkins | thats a good place to put it | 22:27 |
| ubuntujenkins | this happended to be in my inbox https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/DetailingBugs | 22:32 |
| daker | hello @all | 22:35 |
| ubuntujenkins | hey daker | 22:35 |
| flan | I've been interested in Apport for a while, but I do most of my development projects with ultra-conservative Debian as a target platform, so... | 22:37 |
| ubuntujenkins | this will be a fun to add | 22:37 |
| flan | It'll be well worth however long it takes. | 22:38 |
| flan | (And, as you said, it looks easy) | 22:38 |
| ubuntujenkins | I agree | 22:39 |
| flan | Wait, what? SunK's in Calgary, too? | 22:41 |
| SunK | hey flan | 22:47 |
| SunK | yeah I'm | 22:47 |
| * flan was formerly known as Red_HamsterX. | 22:47 | |
| flan | (I finally got this name freed up) | 22:47 |
| ubuntujenkins | wow two people on the quickshot team in the same place | 22:47 |
| flan | Yeah. Kinda strange. | 22:47 |
| flan | But Calgary's a big place. | 22:48 |
| * flan answers the looming question first. | 22:48 | |
| flan | Midnapore. | 22:48 |
| SunK | i'm new to Calgary | 22:51 |
| SunK | use to live in Vancouver | 22:51 |
| SunK | used* | 22:51 |
| flan | That doesn't tell me what part of the city you live in. :( | 22:52 |
| flan | How am I supposed to mock you now? | 22:52 |
| SunK | haha Panorama Hills | 22:53 |
| flan | ...Well, I can't really mock that. | 22:53 |
| dutchie | ubuntujenkins: in fairness, we're not *that* far apart | 22:53 |
| ubuntujenkins | true dutchie, I wich i could have gone to ogg camp | 22:54 |
| dutchie | ubuntujenkins: next one may be down south | 22:54 |
| ubuntujenkins | I am on placemnet next year so i have a car. So fingers crossed I may make it | 22:54 |
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