[00:50] <elky> IdleOne, typing adds cognitive delay
[00:51] <Pici> maco: Actually flash has a beta for Windows users too now.
[00:51] <IdleOne> elky: ?
 why is it that I can control my swearing on irc, which btw I swear every second word in real life
[00:51] <IdleOne> ohh
[00:51] <IdleOne> yes, agreed
[00:51] <IdleOne> I guess some don't have cognitive abilities
[00:52] <elky> no, they do, they choose when they type to use that word. some forget the rules, some just don't believe the rules apply to them
[00:53] <elky> and it's still all primarily subconscious. their subconscious just isn't trained for that as much as ours is
[00:53] <IdleOne> btw I want to apologize for my rant this morning in here and in -ot. I was trying to make a point but using bad language wasn't helpful
[04:00] <nocturnus> i'm still being redirect here, can i please go to #ubuntu, please?
[04:10] <IdleOne> nocturnus: do you know why you got banned??
[04:10] <nocturnus> because i was swearing, probably
[04:12] <IdleOne> actually because you were trolling
[04:12] <nocturnus> i do not troll
[04:12] <IdleOne> being rude to other users
[04:12] <IdleOne> being off topic
[04:12] <nocturnus> sometimes i am rude when i'm angry
[04:12] <IdleOne> and continued to be offtopic after being asked several times to stop
[04:13] <nocturnus> i guess you can re-brand 'swearing' as fifty billion difference offenses
[04:13] <IdleOne> I didn't see any swearing in the log
[04:13] <IdleOne> So no I am not rebranding
[04:13] <nocturnus> rudeness then
[04:13] <nocturnus> did you see rudeness?
[04:14] <IdleOne> basically your poor attitude towards other users in the channel
[04:14] <nocturnus> i guess people only swear when they are NOT being rude, is this correct?
[04:14] <IdleOne> well the rule is no swearing at all
[04:14] <nocturnus> okay
[04:14] <IdleOne> but like I said i didn't see any swearing
[04:14] <nocturnus> it says so in the rules listing
[04:14] <nocturnus> i agree, there probably wasn't swearing
[04:15] <IdleOne> Please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[04:15] <nocturnus> i've read that last time i was in here
[04:15] <IdleOne> and  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
[04:15] <IdleOne> well I think you need to read them both again
[04:15] <nocturnus> why
[04:15] <IdleOne> obviously you didn't understand
[04:15] <nocturnus> i already know there's no swearing allowed
[04:15] <nocturnus> i understand
[04:16] <IdleOne> and no rudeness or being offtopic when asked to stop 4 times
[04:16] <nocturnus> that's correct
[04:16] <nocturnus> i'm not debating my innocence
[04:16] <IdleOne> I don't see any reason to think you aren't going to be any different
[04:16] <nocturnus> why didn't you say that as your first line in our conversation?
[04:17] <IdleOne> because in the first line of our conversation I didn't get attitude from you
[04:17] <nocturnus> please specify which is the attitude line
[04:17] <nocturnus> its not that i'm being rude now, its that i'm not using smilees or exclamation points
[04:17] <nocturnus> i'm being professional
[04:19] <IdleOne> nocturnus: I am not going to be able to lift the ban at this time. you will need to come back and speak with Tm_T when he is online
[04:19] <nocturnus> i was told that last time
[04:19] <IdleOne> ok
[04:19] <nocturnus> i feel there is no chance for redemption
[04:19] <nocturnus> why don't you tell me that upfront?
[04:19] <Flannel> nocturnus: Its coming across as curt.
[04:19] <nocturnus> what is curt?
[04:20] <IdleOne> that is the word I was looking for
[04:20] <IdleOne> curt
[04:20] <nocturnus> who's curt
[04:20] <IdleOne> you are coming off curt
[04:20] <nocturnus> please give me an exact answer as to what i should do
[04:20] <Flannel> nocturnus: You do have a chance upfront, the problem is your manner of carrying yourself comes across as nonchalant and as if you have disdain for the guidelines.
[04:20] <nocturnus> can you please address my last statement?
[04:21] <Flannel> nocturnus: Once I have a chance to read it, yes, I intend to.
[04:21] <nocturnus> that was not exact at all
[04:21] <nocturnus> how am i supposed to know when you have a chance? i assume you've had a chance by now but i guess i was wrong, or maybe you don't intend to read it
[04:21] <nocturnus> i don
[04:22] <nocturnus> oops
[04:22] <IdleOne> nocturnus: give flannel a chance to read the log
[04:22] <nocturnus> oh that log
[04:22] <IdleOne> and drop the attitude
[04:22] <maco> nocturnus: curt is like blunt... dismissive
[04:22] <nocturnus> okay
[04:23] <nocturnus> it would be too short for me to say i am not so i have added these extra words as re-assurance
[04:23] <Flannel> nocturnus: I'm going to assume you're being genuine here, and give you the benefit of the doubt.
[04:23] <nocturnus> i don't get it
[04:23] <nocturnus> is that sarcasm? it usually is, on irc ...
[04:24] <maco> Flannel is not often sarcastic
[04:24] <IdleOne> Ubuntu ops have no sense of humor
[04:24] <Flannel> nocturnus: (hint: there's probably more to a statement if it doesn't sound complete, instead of responding immediately, wait to see if there's a significant pause before answering)
[04:24] <nocturnus> please make a concrete decision, i don't want this to come back and haunt me later
[04:24] <maco> IdleOne: speak for yourself, i'm plenty punny!
[04:24] <nocturnus> don't flip a coin is what i'm saying
[04:24] <Flannel> nocturnus: Again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you're already trying my patience.
[04:25] <nocturnus> i thought you were making a logical decision here, not one based on the current mood
[04:25] <IdleOne> nocturnus: do you want the ban lifted or not?
[04:25] <nocturnus> yes
[04:25] <Flannel> nocturnus: Have a nice evening nocturnus.  We have nothing else to discuss here.  Next time, try being more polite.
[04:25] <IdleOne> then hush
[04:25] <nocturnus> i don't get it ...
[04:26] <nocturnus> why do i have to bend over and take it in the ass every time an admin decision is made
[04:26] <IdleOne> nocturnus: come back in 24 hours. Think about tonights discussion and how to improve your approach
[04:26] <nocturnus> if you don't want me unbanned just tell me to get lost, why do you have to lead me on and give me temptations
[04:26] <nocturnus> i've agreed to follow the rules, i've read the guidelines, i've reported back since last time
[04:26] <Flannel> nocturnus: Try again next time.  In the meantime, take the guidelines and code of conduct to heart.  Another hint is to *not* ask for a specific response to everything you say, and don't feel oblidged to respond to everything said to you.
[04:27] <IdleOne> nocturnus: go now before Flannel bans you from here.
[04:27] <nocturnus> no, this is exactly what i don't intend to do; that's why i'm asking you to make a concrete decision -- because i don't intend to come back every 24 hours and roll the dice
[04:27] <Flannel> nocturnus: There's nothing but your actions when you're in here that keeps you from being unbanned.
[04:27] <nocturnus> i dont understand i've been polite, i've followed the rules
[04:28] <nocturnus> i've asked for a clarification and now the tables have turned
[04:28] <Flannel> nocturnus: You're not being very amicable in your interactions in here.
[04:28] <Flannel> nocturnus: That sole fact is essentially keeping you from being unbanned.
[04:28] <nocturnus> i'm afraid to be amical
[04:28] <nocturnus> its like an interview for me
[04:28] <Flannel> nocturnus: And I unfortunately tried to explain this to you twice now, but you've demanded I answer quicker and accused me of going off on tangents and being biased.
[04:29] <nocturnus> for me, acting amical now would seem like this is a laughing matter
[04:29] <nocturnus> i don't want to give off that impression
[04:29] <nocturnus> i didn't demand you answer quikcer
[04:29] <nocturnus> i demanded you answer in a want that there is not doubt or guessing
[04:29] <nocturnus> and i requested it
[04:29] <nocturnus> i didn't pound my fist
[04:30] <Flannel> nocturnus: We have a responsibility to our users to keep the Ubuntu channels usable and polite, which means we need to have confidence that people who happen to get banned won't just get banned again when we let them back into the channel
[04:30] <nocturnus> yes, so why are you giving me doubt
[04:30] <nocturnus> you should be able to say "i am confident this person is polite etc .."
[04:30] <IdleOne> but you haven't been polite
[04:31] <Flannel> nocturnus: Because you're behaving in a way that forces me to question the genuineness of your desire to participate in #ubuntu constructively
[04:31] <nocturnus> i'm being professional and concise
[04:31] <nocturnus> i'm trying to make my points clear and non-ambiguous
[04:32] <nocturnus> would it help my case if i used puns, smilees, and exclamation points?
[04:32] <nocturnus> i also try not to use too many "please", to avoid seeming un-authentic
[04:33] <nocturnus> but my opening statement i've said please twice
[04:33] <Flannel> nocturnus: It'd help if you would have a conversation with us that wasn't accusatory, nor pretentious
[04:33] <nocturnus> i didn't accuse you
[04:33] <nocturnus> and i didn't pretend i wasn't guilty
[04:34] <nocturnus> and between us, as friends (although you may want to debate this), i'm feeling like this is made purposely hard as possible
[04:34] <Flannel> nocturnus: You did.  You've accused us of wasting your time by deciding arbitrarily that you won't be unbanned.
[04:34] <nocturnus> some admins like to do that
[04:34] <nocturnus> ardya in #linxu on efnet does that all the time
[04:34] <Flannel> nocturnus: So you assumed that I'm an asshole?
[04:34] <nocturnus> no
[04:35] <nocturnus> its not being an asshole
[04:35] <nocturnus> its just what people do for fun
[04:35] <Flannel> nocturnus: That's malice, not entertainment.
[04:35] <nocturnus> i don't know, its his channel ...
[04:35] <nocturnus> people in #linux on freenode do it
[04:35] <nocturnus> #fedora always rides ass about man pages
[04:35] <nocturnus> it seems the norm around freenode
[04:35] <nocturnus> its what i deal with everyday, i'm used to it
[04:35] <Flannel> nocturnus: This is #ubuntu, not #linux.  I can't speak for other communities.
[04:36] <nocturnus> i just assume everyone is like that and deal with it in a non-hostile way
[04:36]  * maco would class malice-for-fun as "asshole" behaviour
[04:36] <nocturnus> that's why i behave the way i do which probably resulted in ban
[04:36] <Flannel> nocturnus: Alright.  Come back in a day or two, and when you do, leave the notion that we're out to get you at the door.  Take some of the things I've said here to heart, and we'll see how things go.
[04:37] <nocturnus> i'm not rolling the twice a third time; one bad luck, twice shame on you, but three i'd have to be an idiot
[04:37] <nocturnus> please reconsider?
[04:38] <Flannel> nocturnus: Your initial hostility has left a bad taste in a number of the operators mouths, so I don't think you'll be able to convince someone you're being genuine right now.  But bad tastes fade quickly, so you shouldn't need to worry about predispositions next time around.
[04:38] <nocturnus> i've been here for at least 5 hours debating
[04:38] <nocturnus> not today, but in total
[04:38] <nocturnus> you say i'm trolling, this would be a bad signal-to-noise ratio
[04:38] <nocturnus> 5 hours to get unbanned from one out of like an infinite number of channels
[04:39] <nocturnus> it doesn't add up
[04:39] <Flannel> nocturnus: Right, but now we've had this heart to heart, so you know what to (and what not to) expect the next time around.  I hope you'll change your attitude so we can get you back into #ubuntu
[04:39] <nocturnus> i've agreed to that
[04:40] <Flannel> nocturnus: Good.  I look forward to unbanning you in a day or two.
[04:40] <nocturnus> i've been accused of not having read the guidelines every time i've been here, yet i've been here enough that you remember our conversation -- but at the same time you tell me that i'm being curt
[04:40] <nocturnus> you promise?
[04:41] <Flannel> nocturnus: Assuming your attitude has changed, yeah.
[04:41] <nocturnus> this implies this discussion all over agian
[04:41] <nocturnus> i can't change my behavior because i don't know what's wrong with it
[04:41] <nocturnus> i've been concise and up-to-the-point
[04:41] <Flannel> nocturnus: No, because we've already had this dicsussion, so next time you'll be able to avoid the issues.
[04:41] <nocturnus> what are the issues i don't get it
[04:41] <nocturnus> there is no exact response
[04:42] <nocturnus> you will not provide one
[04:42] <Flannel> nocturnus: I already gave you an "exact response"
[04:42] <nocturnus> come back in two days is not exact, its roll the dice and go fuck yourself because we feel that we don't need you
[04:42] <Flannel> nocturnus: No, it was before that.  Are you listening to what I said?  And the language isn't appreciated.
[04:42] <nocturnus> then i have to contact some op i don't even know who's in the completely opposite time-zone
[04:43] <nocturnus> i don't even know what i did wrong, except for swearing but i think you can feel where i'm comming from with that rage
[04:43] <nocturnus> of course the chances were lost before the swearing
[04:43] <Flannel> nocturnus: You were rude to people in #ubuntu, even after you were asked to stop.
[04:44] <nocturnus> yes, i know
[04:44] <nocturnus> this is my fault
[04:44] <nocturnus> i am guilty
[04:44] <nocturnus> i have re-evalutate myself, and the guidelines
[04:44] <Flannel> nocturnus: Right.  But we haven't seen anything from you to make us think you will change.
[04:44] <nocturnus> i have familirised myself with the guidelines, we are parallel
[04:44] <nocturnus> i have not been rude here
[04:44] <Flannel> nocturnus: We do give you the benefit of the doubt, but then you throw that away with your antics in here.
[04:44] <Flannel> nocturnus: Yes, you have.
[04:44] <nocturnus> omg
[04:45] <nocturnus> you say i am rude because i am concise
[04:45] <nocturnus> i've added extra-words to prove that i am not curt
[04:45] <nocturnus> at least 100000 words have been spoken by me here, this is not curt
[04:45] <nocturnus> its in my nature to be consise and precise
[04:45] <Flannel> no, I say you're rude because you've got a sense of entitlement and you're accusing us of being biased against you.
[04:45] <nocturnus> omg
[04:45] <nocturnus> this is not the situation at all
[04:45] <Flannel> nocturnus: Good evening nocturnus.  I'll see you in a few days.
[04:46] <nocturnus> no
[04:46] <nocturnus> i've told you
[04:46] <nocturnus> i don't intend to come back
[04:46] <Flannel> That's a pity.
[05:26] <Flannel> maco: it got chopped off by auto_bleh
[05:26] <maco> ah
[05:28] <maco> can we add a !buggy factoid? "!buggy is <reply> Why is the stable release so buggy? Because the development team can always use more volunteers! Visit http://www.ubuntu.com/community to learn how to help!"
[05:28] <maco> something like that?
[05:28]  * maco is in favour of guilting people into helping out
[05:29] <mneptok> i don't think that factoid will help or silence the types that would ask the original question
[05:29] <maco> more forceful? "If you think the release is buggy, help fix it."
[05:30] <mneptok> "why is this so buggy?" usually translates to "i can't be bothered to read some basic documentation" or "i don't care about filing and tracking bug reports, i just want to complain" or "the folks in #archlinux-offtopic are gonna *love* this ..."
[05:31] <maco> i hate that last one
[05:31] <mneptok> amen, sistah
[05:31] <maco> the list of arch users i know that arent jerkwads is umm...it very very very easily fits on one hand. and maybe one finger.
[05:32] <maco> er... i mean
[05:32] <maco> or maybe just one finger
[07:03] <elky> nhandler, get a handle on your connection :P
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[08:24] <jpds> Anyone else think noisecontrol is !ot in #u?
[10:02] <Tm_T> IdleOne: did you know the past with nocturnus?
[10:06] <Tm_T> IdleOne: actually, its irrelevant, ignore me (:
[13:53] <IdleOne> Tm_T: Did not really need to know the whole back story with him.
[13:54] <Tm_T> IdleOne: ye, figured while reading backlog
[14:18] <IdleOne> Good morning btw :)
[19:57] <Pici> funkyHat: Can you please not kick people for fun.  As you can see kyubutsu hasn't come back yet.
[19:58] <funkyHat> He did kind of set himself up for it, but ok.
[20:03] <funkyHat> Or were you telling me off for fun as well ⢁(
[20:04] <Pici> No, I don't (usually) have fun having to do that.
[20:04] <IdleOne> it is never fun to tell you off
[20:04] <IdleOne> but watching others do it is entertaining :P
[20:05] <Tm_T> funkicks is big nono
[20:05] <Pici> Times have changed.
[20:05] <IdleOne> how bout funslaps?
[20:05] <funkyHat> funkicks were only supplied because kyubutsu made a joke about funkicks
[20:06] <Tm_T> no, it's not ok even then
[20:06] <Tm_T> it's never ok
[20:06]  * funkyHat takes note
[20:07] <Tm_T> it was ok in the past, but we are way past that, atleast that is my big wish
[20:07] <IdleOne> I klined myself off my own ircd one time
[20:07] <IdleOne> that was fun
[20:42] <ikonia> !info jesred
[20:56] <Pici> IdleOne: thanks
[20:57] <IdleOne> for?
[20:58] <Pici> IdleOne: just helping with that user in #u
[20:58] <IdleOne> oh
[20:58] <IdleOne> heh no problem, that is why we are here right
[20:58] <Pici> Right :)
[20:58] <IdleOne> help each other out
[20:59] <IdleOne> ok but he doesn't seem to get it