[00:00] RAOF, robert_ancell, tremolux, TheMuso, shall we go ahead? [00:00] sure [00:00] ready [00:00] Yes. [00:00] RAOF, we'll start with you, since you are first on the list [00:01] RAOF did you get any kind of projection for WI through put? [00:01] I only had 4 WI in Lucid, and they took ~1.5 weeks. That's not really enough data to project from, I think. [00:02] so, like 3 per week [00:02] RAOF_ didrocks came up with 5 for himself, so shall we estimate 4 for you to start, maybe? [00:02] That seems reasonable. [00:03] so that's 24 total for A2 [00:03] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-video-bugs-in-the-kms-world [00:03] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-xorg-in-mm [00:03] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-easy-wayland-testing [00:03] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-xorg-gpu-freeze-reports [00:04] RAOF are those all of your blueprints for maverick? [00:04] rickspencer3, how are you getting that list? [00:04] they seem to have work items, and to be less than 24 [00:04] robert_ancell, go here: [00:04] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick?searchtext=desktop-maverick [00:04] and sort by assignee [00:04] and manually count work items? [00:04] pretty much, yeah [00:05] Yep, those are all of them. [00:05] RAOF, do you see any reason not to target them all for A2? [00:05] Oh, no, missed one. [00:05] basically get them all done by June 24th? [00:05] can you paste me a link to the one I missed? [00:06] Yeah, grabbing it. [00:06] oops, there are only 5 weeks now [00:06] so 20 work items total [00:06] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-rootless-x [00:06] so the first 4 brings you to 17 [00:07] This bumps it to 23 [00:07] RAOF lots of work items there, so maybe target rootless x to A3? [00:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule [00:07] or do you feel that it *must* be done for maverick? [00:08] No. It's a nice-to-have. [00:08] ok [00:08] I'm targeting the first 4 to A2, the rootless x one to A3 [00:08] sound ok? [00:08] The other work items are mostly about getting good bugs and being able to deal with them - that's more imporltant. [00:08] I'm fine with that. [00:09] sweet [00:09] next is tremolux [00:09] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end [00:09] tremolux, were you able to calculate a WI throughput? [00:10] it's going to be a little complicated for my case [00:10] because we have community folks who are likely to grab some things [00:10] how does 4 per week sound as an estimate? [00:10] yes, that seems fine, 4-5 or so [00:10] yeah, that can increase productivity [00:11] so I have 17 here for alpha-2 [00:11] tremolux, I think you'll have a tad less maintainer work than other folks, at least to start [00:11] yep [00:11] so maybe 5 is a good number [00:11] so 17 is just right [00:11] I only see one blueprint currently targeted for you: [00:11] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end [00:11] yep, but I will likely have some work items on other blueprints [00:12] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release [00:12] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-dynamic-appview [00:12] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-dynamic-testing-improvements [00:12] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-oneconf [00:12] does this have all the buy something and cool apps work items? [00:12] these bad boys [00:12] aha [00:12] no, this doesn't [00:12] so across those 5 blueprints, you have a total of 17 work items right now? [00:13] I think about 20, not counting the ones that I have past a-2 [00:13] ok [00:14] we need to pick for A2 [00:14] oh, do we have the buy apps blueprint? not yet, right? [00:14] tremolux, correct, not yet, you are blocking on me to work out how to track LP work items [00:14] so those need to be, for sure, in A2 [00:14] right, definitely [00:14] how many did you have from that one? [00:15] I see the work items, but I don't see which are for you [00:15] yes, I think I have "any UI work" [00:15] heh [00:16] ok, so I see there is a lot of work here, and the work items have been identified [00:16] but the 20 that you will sign up for in A2 haven't been called out yet [00:16] we'll have to take care of that tomorrow [00:17] tremolux, can you look through all of these specs, and see which ones you think you need to pick off for A2, including the "ghost spec" for buy something? [00:17] yes, it's a little tricky because mvo and I dynamically divide up work historically [00:17] ah [00:17] hmmm [00:17] we grab from a bucket :) [00:17] but we don't have to do that [00:17] I see [00:17] well ... we shouldn't bust a functional work flow [00:17] it's fine to sign up, much better for tracking [00:17] let's do both [00:17] ok [00:17] sign up for say 15 [00:18] that sounds good [00:18] maybe not 15, but the number that 1. should be done in A2 and 2. are very UIish, so most likely you will do [00:18] however, I do need to know between you, what you are committed to delivering in A2 [00:19] even if many of the work items are unassigned [00:19] yep [00:19] tremolux, do you think you have enough information to identify the A2 work items tomorrow? [00:19] yes, I already made a cut for my spec [00:20] I'm concerned I'm not being clear [00:20] ok, it sounds good, then [00:20] the blueprint certainly have a lot of analysis in them [00:20] and tomorrow I'll work with mvo to 1. pare my list if necessary and 2. add items for me in the other specs [00:20] sounds great [00:20] rock [00:20] cool [00:20] any other concerns, etc...? [00:21] nope! sorry everyone for the diversion from the noob [00:21] :) [00:21] software center is a bfd for Maverick! [00:21] welcome to the team :) [00:21] tremolux, tbh, we're all noobs at this ;) [00:21] haha, thanks! \o/ [00:21] next on the list is TheMuso [00:22] TheMuso, have you calculated a WI throughput? [00:22] rickspencer3: No, I haven't. You know me and graphs, and given the fact I didn't really have much in the way or work items last cycle, and that I don't have many this cycle, its not exactly that easy to do so. [00:22] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome3-accessibility-readiness [00:23] TheMuso, that's fine [00:23] we all have different jobs [00:23] rickspencer3: That spec has turned out to be more informational [00:23] that's why the system is flexible [00:23] TheMuso, I see some things there that could be turned in WIs [00:24] * TheMuso looks again... [00:24] TheMuso, let's talk more next week [00:24] ...and doesn't see things that could be WIs. [00:24] let me think [00:25] I'd like to see some commitments to technical progress in both accessibility and sound [00:25] but I think we need to discuss more [00:25] sound ok? [00:25] Well other than getting the bits from upstream, there is not much else that could be a work item. [00:26] and since we are starting to be more conservative with things... [00:26] that sounds like you are planning just to integrate upstream bits this cycle [00:26] but ok sounds reasonable [00:26] which is good and important [00:26] but I'd like to see us go beyond that [00:27] robert_ancell, were you able to calculate a WI throughput estimate? [00:28] I don't think I have enough data from the last cycle, I'm thinking the 20-25 team estimate sounds about right [00:29] cool [00:29] robert_ancell, I only see this one blueprint for you: [00:29] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-shotwell [00:29] are there others that haven't been accepted yet? [00:29] I'll be doing a large chunk of work on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gnome [00:29] I seem to recall some change mail from your blueprints [00:29] aha [00:29] of course [00:30] erk [00:30] all the new things I planned seb removed from the maverick schedule [00:30] looks like lots of tough ones [00:30] robert_ancell, right ... that didn't mean you were banned from doing those [00:30] I was also signed up to getting PyGI working (foundations blueprint) but it doesn't seem to be on the Maverick schedule [00:30] just, not to commit to them [00:30] Also https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-shotwell [00:30] PyGI is not on the schedule!! [00:31] robert_ancell, I think shotwell maybe end up more maintainer work than expected [00:31] how many work items do you have in A2 total? [00:31] I don't have a lot of work items for these, as not sure how to divide, e.g. for GNOME should I make "Package 2.31.1", "Package 2.31.2" to break it up? [00:31] I'm wondering if you are feeling like you could do more? [00:32] based on comitted work, yes [00:32] robert_ancell, do you feel like the current plan has you under-utilized? [00:32] if so, we should consider bringing back one of your other blueprints [00:33] sure, we should discuss priorities [00:33] for this stuff: for GNOME should I make "Package 2.31.1 [00:33] I think I wouldn't make work items, per se [00:33] that sounds more like regular maintainer work [00:34] they do represent chunks of work, so not sure if that's worth tracking or not [00:34] well ... if it's recurring and rote, it's probably worth accounting for, as in it will take up time, but not work tracking [00:34] if that makes sense [00:35] acounting != work tracking? [00:35] no [00:35] like I could assume you are going to do 20 hours per week of maintainer work on gnome, for example (made up number) [00:36] so I would account for that by knowing that you only have 20 more hours a week to work [00:36] but I would track the flow of maintainer work [00:36] it will just get done [00:36] ok [00:37] robert_ancell, I hate to think of you not having awesome projects that you are motivated to work on [00:37] just to run back, "PyGI is not on the schedule", was that a statement of suprise or "it's not supposed to be on the schedule" [00:37] well, it was a statement of surprise [00:38] I would have thought it was a bit tricky to land and make it work [00:38] but maybe not [00:38] I know this is totally vague, btw [00:38] ok, shall we discuss after the meeting which project to put on schedule [00:38] well first, what do you think? [00:39] does it need to be tracked, etc...? [00:39] Color management is the interesting one I'd like to try [00:39] hmmm [00:39] which I know you want to talk about anyway :) [00:39] ok [00:40] robert_ancell, are doing the PyGI work specifically yourself, or are there other people involved? [00:40] I ask, because I care about this a lot for certain developer experience stuff we are workign on [00:40] like the easy and fun telepathy API [00:40] rickspencer3, I'm doing the packaging (I've done some work this week, but it's not working) [00:41] ah [00:41] so it should be working by default in Maverick asap [00:41] (but expected to still have all the usual bugs) [00:41] who is responsible for getting it working? [00:41] are you the maintainer? [00:41] no [00:41] foundations? [00:42] not sure, I think that's upstream. The meeting was more about making it available so people are prepared for when the old bindings start to stop being maintiained [00:42] hmmm [00:42] I would like someone in Ubuntu to be on point for making sure this goes smoothly [00:42] robert_ancell: do you know, is Barry working on this? [00:43] tremolux, I don't know, I'm looking for blueprint now [00:43] I am so happy to have robert_ancell back on the team! [00:43] robert_ancell rocked OEM! [00:43] I think it is, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-python-versions but it doesn't seem to have the items yet. Maybe no-one copied them from the gobby doc [00:44] robert_ancell, I suggest that you work on color management (or what you prefer) but don't target it to the release [00:44] rickspencer3, ok, can do [00:44] so we don't appear committed to delivering it [00:44] then you can pull a Simple Scan [00:44] hehe :) [00:44] robert_ancell: hey [00:44] deliver such awesome software that everyone wants to ship it! [00:44] desrt, hey [00:44] robert_ancell: seb was wondering if you had some free time to make some packages [00:45] desrt, ok, talk after meeting [00:45] robert_ancell: Feel free to pour some colour-management work this way if you need to :) [00:45] ah. didn't realise. sorry. :) [00:46] desrt is always welcome to our meetings! :) [00:46] robert_ancell, I think we are done, actually [00:46] ok, I feel like I'm hogging the meeting, anything I should do to track things? [00:46] oh ok [00:46] well ... just get your work items cleaned up on your blueprints [00:47] I'll look at the burndown chart on Monday and make sure nothing seems amiss [00:47] rickspencer3, ok, I just don't have any really, let me know if there's a good way to break up the items [00:48] hmmm, you ended up with no spec work? [00:48] just maintenance? [00:48] rickspencer3, just no items, so I have two I put on Shotwell "Package 0.6" and "Package 0.7" but I just put them to have some items on this [00:48] basically, you are the new seb128 ;) [00:49] GNOME I have two that seb retro added (update GLIB, GTK+) [00:49] yeah, like you ended up with a large maintenance surface area [00:49] PyGI should have one [00:49] which makes sense [00:49] but I don't want you to be bored [00:49] I always have side projects :) [00:49] so I guess having a blueprint on the side makes sense [00:50] looking at your areas, you have a lot of responsibility for maverick! [00:50] alright, so let's finish up here [00:50] RAOF, TheMuso, tremolux, robert_ancell - thanks for your time and effort planning out maverick! [00:50] please note that we have HR review stuff due by Tuesday! [00:51] fun times :) [00:51] np [00:51] don't forget to invite peer reviews and such [00:52] any questions, comments, etc...? [00:52] rickspencer3: no questinos, but if you have a minute, I'd like to talk about your thoughts re technical progress for sound/a11y that you mentioned earlier. [00:52] not me [00:52] questions [00:52] TheMuso, sure [00:53] ok, thanks all, I enjoyed my first desktop meeting, Eastern Edition (tm) [00:53] * tremolux goes to make sure the kids didn't eat all the dinner [00:53] desrt, ok, so anything special to note about glib/dconf? [00:55] ya. you should add a small vendor patch to dconf [00:55] also: you'll need a post-install hook [00:56] the patch you should add is the one at the head of the 'master' upstream [00:56] tremolux, they are not usually this organized ;) [00:56] totally silly mistake on my part [00:56] the post-install hook is the one that runs gio-querymodules [00:57] desrt, any dconf/gconf interactions to worry about? (guessing no) [00:57] nope [00:57] did seb128 give any hints on packaging naming? I'm guessing gnome-dconf from the last discussion [00:58] that's a dreadful name [00:58] like, really really bad [00:58] and you would recommend... [00:59] hmm. [00:59] well, i like 'dconf' [00:59] because libdconf doesn't sound right. [00:59] Sorry, dconf is taken [00:59] it's difficult [00:59] but it's also not really gnome specific [00:59] really, the various binary packages will all have different names anyway [00:59] unlikely to have one called 'dconf' [00:59] the source package name is the trouble [01:00] yes. indeed. [01:00] would it be very strange to call the source package 'dconf-source'? [01:00] TheMuso, ^ ? [01:00] with binary package names like 'dconf-gsettings' 'dconf-tools' etc [01:00] 'libdconf' [01:01] dconf-config? or something like that, i.e. "name"-"class" [01:01] dconf-settings? [01:01] dconf-registry? [01:01] d-conf? [01:01] aha [01:01] you're going to have to repackage 'dconf' in universe i guess [01:02] because it tries to install /usr/bin/dconf. i'll be using that. [01:02] why couldn't you have done a debian package name check before choosing the name!! :) [01:02] gnome-dconf? [01:02] no. [01:02] orca is gnome-orca after all. [01:03] it's not gnome-specific [01:03] ah ok [01:03] we can't change the binary name [01:03] (of the existing dconf) [01:03] epiphany got renamed to epiphany-game [01:04] let the record show what happens when i run 'dconf' [01:04] /usr/bin/dconf:3: DeprecationWarning: The popen2 module is deprecated. Use the subprocess module. [01:04] import os, sys, glob, re, shutil, getopt, popen2, time, fnmatch [01:04] /usr/bin/dconf:5: DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead [01:04] import difflib, smtplib, gzip, md5, sha [01:05] /usr/bin/dconf:5: DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module instead [01:05] import difflib, smtplib, gzip, md5, sha [01:05] Traceback (most recent call last): [01:05] File "/usr/bin/dconf", line 481, in [01:05] main() [01:05] lovely [01:05] who would I talk to about renaming it? [01:05] popcon says 150 people are using it [01:06] i'm not sure? [01:06] i don't know what happened for epiphany [01:06] I guess in Debian is the best place to do this properly right, or is this a package that is only in Ubuntu? [01:06] it's from debian [01:06] http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=dconf [01:06] right [01:07] about 400 times as many people are using gconf [01:08] so I don't know what the process here is, what are the chances of filing a bug in debian and anything being done? Guess I need to ask the Debian GNOME guys what their dconf plans are [01:08] ah. only 7 people are marked as having dconf installed/used recently [01:08] wow [01:08] how much do you want to bet that they all thought that they were getting my software? :p [01:10] huh. according to popcon, 99.79% of all debian users are using popcon [01:10] * desrt suspicious [01:10] epiphany didn't get their name [01:10] They got epiphany-browser instead [01:10] Heck, did git get their name yet? [01:10] alternatives? [01:10] yes. git is git. [01:11] er. [01:11] Amaranth: we're talking about /usr/bin/ binary names, not packagers [01:11] ah [01:11] the epiphany-browser package installs /usr/bin/epiphany [01:12] the existing dconf in the archive really should just be removed, it hasn't been updated for over 2 years now [01:12] chrisccoulson: that's what i was getting at with my 'spews about deprecations then crashes' [01:12] desrt - i agree, and i hate cruft anyway ;) [01:12] robert_ancell: maybe you should wait [01:13] ok, i will check to make sure nothing is build-depending on it and ask an archive admin to remove and blacklist it [01:13] are you a DD? [01:13] no [01:13] i'm not either [01:13] I'll get the packaging working and get seb to check this out, he's more on the pulse of Debian [01:13] you should fairly familiar with the ways of debian :p [01:13] *sound [01:14] it's too hot in here. my brain is melting. [01:14] heh [01:35] good night all! [01:36] I'll be back on Monday (will check in tomorrow prolly) [04:40] Isn't assinging to desktop team out? [04:40] I believe we dont do that anymore [05:01] RAOF_: ping [05:01] lifeless: Pong. [05:02] RAOF_: whats a good pci express video card to buy [good == linux love] these days [05:02] poolie is stranded at a computer shop [05:02] and has a fried card [05:02] What's he need it for? [05:02] bzr dev [05:02] explicitly not games [05:02] Buy the cheapest ATI card money can buy. [05:02] thanks [05:02] That should be ~$50 [05:03] and the free driver will likely run it ? [05:03] or the binary blob is tolerable ? [05:03] Free driver works fine on the box next to me; that has a video card chosen by this algorithm. The blob also works. [05:04] RAOF_: hd4350 ring any bells ? [05:04] That's possibly what I've got in the box next to me. [05:04] I'll check. [05:05] now thats service; poolie says 'thanks very much' [05:07] RAOF_: so what did lspci say ? [05:07] Yup. Radeon DH 4350 is what I've got. [05:07] awesome [05:07] poolie reckons its a typo :) [05:08] DH<->HD [05:08] It is :) [05:11] poolie is very grateful [05:12] No problem! === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF [06:20] Yay sbuild-on-tmpfs-overlay! [06:48] good morning desktoppers === cking is now known as cking-afk === cking-afk is now known as cking [07:46] Good morning [08:03] good morning pitti, fagan [08:04] morning didrocks [08:05] hey didrocks, fagan [08:05] hey pitti [09:00] hey there [09:01] salut seb128, bien dormi? [09:01] lut didrocks [09:01] nickel, et toi? [09:03] bonjour seb128 [09:03] hey pitti [09:03] how are you? [09:03] c'est bien, merci! et toi? [09:04] seb128: très bien, merci ;) [09:06] pitti, gut danke [09:07] so many languages :) [09:29] heya pitti, good morning, I'm moving all helper scripts related to Ubuntu Translations to a central location. We've got one to retrieve the URLs from translation imports. ArneGoetje told me it was you who wrote it, so I've added a license header and added you as the original author before publishing it. Before I push it, does that look ok to you (well, the license header, copyright assignment and such)? -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/437184/ [09:39] dpm: no, I don't think I wrote this :) just leave you as the author then, it doesn't matter much; The copyright should be (C) 2010 Canonical Ltd., if you wrote it during paid hours [09:40] dpm: btw, if you are looking for a home for it, langpack-o-matic might not be the worst one [09:53] james_w: hey, who should we ping when an debian branch is out of date? (are they still target testing?) [09:57] james_w: the sid branch is uptodate, just lp:debian/package points to testing [10:00] didrocks: that's launchpad's decision, I'm not entirely sure what the consequences of changing it would be [10:02] james_w: no pb, since we can branch from sid. I was just surprized at first :) [10:02] yeah [10:02] I would prefer it was the other way, but as I said, I'm not sure what would rely on it pointing to testing [10:04] ok, thanks james_w :) [10:05]