[08:31] <qense> good morning
[08:39] <qense> mpt: You did see on the Ayatana discussion list that Rhythmbox cannot persevere state and that it will be a lot of work(almost undoable for the next cycle) to make it persevere its state? That could conflict with the planned behaviour of the Sound Menu.
[08:41] <mpt> qense, no, I didn't
[08:43] <qense> mpt: Fortunately you do know now. Do you think Rhythmbox should stay running in the background if it can't persevere state?
[08:44] <mpt> hm, I don't know
[08:44] <mpt> What do you think?
[08:47] <qense> If you cannot persevere state between two runs of the application then the Sound Menu should be cleared of that state in between two runs as well. It depends on how important you find it for the last played song to stay in the Sound Menu. I haven't spend much time thinking about that, so I might forget half the arguments in favour or against, but I think it wouldn't be such a bad thing to reset/remove the music player's presence on the Sound Menu when 
[08:47] <qense> it has been exited, as that is what at least I would expect. But then again, how clear is it to the user when Rhythmbox exits or is minimised to the Sound Menu?
[08:47] <qense> mpt: I'm also not so sure if Banshee can persevere state.
[15:16] <qense> vish: How much time would it take to get the New bug reports in the 'hundredpapercuts' project to 0? ;)
[15:24] <kermiac> hi tedg, if you have a couple of minutes can you please take a quick look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+bug/583174
[15:25] <kermiac> tedg: I'm also not certain that I have all of the indicators covered, is there a list of all the indicators anywhere?
[15:26] <vish> qense: its a loosing battle..! i'v been trying to do that for a long time ;) i think its around ~50 now , which is much manageable , but there are a few kubuntu bugs there , i need to get yofel involved too
[15:26] <vish> qense: not sure of any other kubuntu folks , who hang out in -bugs
[15:27] <qense> vish: yeah, get some KDE people in! :)
[15:31] <tedg> kermiac, Not a good list.  We can query apt :)
[15:32] <tedg> kermiac, We should probably put the APPMENU and COMPLETE logs in there as well.  Complete is in Lucid, and appmenu will be in Maverick for application menu testing.
[15:32] <tedg> kermiac, Some people may have indicator-datetime installed as well.  Mostly if they installed the Unity PPA.
[15:36] <tedg> kermiac, In Maverick, for UNE, there'll be an indicator-network as well.
[15:36] <kermiac> tedg: thanks. I've got the indicators listed at http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/GWfPNLsv any others I've missed?
[15:36] <mpt> qense, sorry, I timed out and didn't see you'd replied. I don't think Rhythmbox forgetting its state when it exits is a good reason for it to stay running.
[15:37] <kermiac> tedg: ok, I'll add indicator-network
[15:38] <tedg> kermiac, I think for v2 it would be cool to ask the indicator-application service over dbus to give you the application icons, and let the user point at one.
[15:38] <tedg> kermiac, Not needed for the first version -- but could be really cool.
[15:39] <tedg> mpt, Could you help with the text a little?  This is for an apport hook for the indicators.  http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/rH24VyyJ
[15:39] <tedg> mpt, I'm not sure "Me Menu" is something people would recognize, but I can't come up with a better way to describe it.
[15:39] <kermiac> tedg: I'll need to learn more about dbus
[15:40] <tedg> kermiac, You should ask kenvandine, he loves dbus and python.  It should only be one call, so it shouldn't be too bad.
[15:41] <mpt> tedg, I don't have a good answer for that -- it's something we never came up with a good official name for
[15:41] <kermiac> tedg: ok, thanks.. After v1 is finished I'll ask him
[15:41] <kenvandine> tedg, there is nothing to love about dbus with python :)
[15:42] <tedg> kenvandine, s/dbus with// ;)
[15:42]  * kenvandine ignores tedg
[15:43] <tedg> mpt, Ah, okay.  So you're thinking "Broadcast Menu" would be a bad idea? ;)
[15:43] <mpt> Judging by the user testing, yes
[15:45] <tedg> kenvandine, Is there an easy way to get the XDG Cache Dir in Python?  That'd probably be better than hardcoding it in kermiac's apport hook.
[15:46] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:46] <kenvandine> xdg.BaseDirectory.xdg_cache_home
[15:46] <kenvandine> import xdg first
[15:46] <qense> tedg: There are two ways: python-xdg and python-glib
[15:46] <qense> tedg: kenvandine gave the python-xdg way
[15:47] <tedg> kermiac, ^ that would be better than having "~/.cache" in your script.  Just incase someone has changed the directory.
[15:47] <kermiac> tedg: ok, I'll work on changing that too
[15:48] <qense> glib method is "glib.get_user_cache_dir()"
[15:48] <qense> The GLib one is better for cross-platform support, the XDG one is better if you want to get in KDE more easily.
[15:49] <tedg> qense, I just want the one that works with apport the best :)
[15:49] <qense> kenvandine: pyxdg or pyglib?
[15:50] <qense> I'd go for pyglib in case of Apport as that reduces the dependencies.
[15:50] <qense> tedg: Apport, being a GTK+ app, already has got pygobject (provider of puyglib) installed.
[15:50] <kenvandine> pyglib probably
[15:53] <kermiac> tedg: mpt: would "Social Networking Menu" possibly fit to replace "me menu"?
[15:55] <mpt> possibly
[15:57] <tedg> kermiac, I think that probably makes more sense that "Me" to most users.
[15:57] <tedg> Other than that we'll have to go with "that text box menu thingy"
[15:57] <qense> The 'Networking' stick in between looks ugly. Why not just 'Social Menu'?
[15:58] <kermiac> tedg: well, I was thinking about "that envelope thingy" too ;)
[15:59] <tedg> kermiac, Could we perhaps put the icons in the drop down?
[16:01] <kermiac> tedg: that might be getting a little advanced for apport, I'm not sure if or how we can add icons to a hook
[16:01] <tedg> kermiac, Oh, I wasn't thinking about putting them in as much as just using GTK and the same icon names.  In theory, that should result in using the system icons.
[16:05] <kermiac> tedg: TBH I don't know if that is possible. I'm still learning as I go but I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the documentation. All of the existing hooks just use text
[16:08] <kermiac> tedg: anyway, at least for version1 - do you think we should use "Social Menu" or "Social Networking Menu". I'm leaning towards "Social Networking Menu" as being more readily identified by end users. I understand the point qense made, but will "Social Menu" be easily identified?
[16:09] <qense> It's not all about networking, it's also about sharing and broadcasting.
[16:09] <tedg> kermiac, Sounds good to me.
[16:10] <tedg> qense, It's becoming more of a category name rather than the words having individual meaning.  For better or worse.
[16:10] <qense> tedg: ok
[16:11] <kermiac> ok, thanks for the input everyone. tedg, I'll ping you when I've made those few changes
[17:25] <qense> vish: papercuts down to 40 now
[17:25] <qense> new papercuts, that is
[17:39] <vish> qense: \o/
[17:39] <qense> vish: Will you finish of the rest? ;)
[17:39] <vish> qense: i'm doing them one by one , before i get papercut fatigue :p
[17:40] <qense> :P
[17:40] <qense> Watch out for that!
[17:46] <qense> vish: whoops, that was almost a double edit on bug #568872
[17:48] <vish> qense: was funny that the user switched the project from indicator-applet to papercut :)
[17:48] <qense> yeah
[17:48] <qense> vish: he sent a mail to me apologising for making a mess out of two bug reports before making all those changes
[17:48] <qense> vish: I assume he thought he had done something wrong and was fixing them with those changes.
[17:49] <vish> ha!
[17:50] <qense> afk, dinner time
[17:51] <qense> vish: Don't secretly triage all remaining bugs while I'ma way!
[17:52] <vish> qense: done for the day ;)