[10:12] <vmlintu> joerg: hi
[12:52] <rmorgan> lively in here huh
[13:15] <alkisg> Heh
[14:56] <mhall119> morning
[16:47] <LedHed> If I want to install a package on LTSP clients, do I install the software in the chroot then update the image,  or do I just install it directly on the server?
[16:51] <alkisg>   the server usually, except for any "localapps"
[16:51] <alkisg> !localapps
[16:54] <LedHed> ok, and do I have to update the image each time I install new software?
[16:54] <LedHed> sorry, I'm a total n00b with LTSP
[17:15] <alkisg> No, whenever you install software on the server you don't have to update the image
[17:15] <alkisg> Only if you install something on the chroot
[17:24] <AlanBell> hi all
[17:24] <AlanBell> I am using the edubuntu DVD and trying to get the live LTSP thing going, is there a wiki page or something on the requirements? not sure if I need a separate DHCP server or not
[17:31] <alkisg> AlanBell: I don't think that you need a separate dhcp server
[17:32] <alkisg> It configures dnsmasq in the nic you tell it to, to function as a dhcp server in 192.168.0.x
[17:34] <AlanBell> ah, got it
[17:34] <AlanBell> the crossover cable I was using actually wasn't a crossover
[17:38] <AlanBell> is there a wiki page or something about the live LTSP and networking?
[17:39] <alkisg> I don't think so, what problem are you facing?
[17:39] <AlanBell> I don't have any problem at the moment
[17:39] <AlanBell> I was going to update it/write it
[17:39] <alkisg> highvoltage: ^^^ ?
[17:39] <AlanBell> I am trying a few different things like running the DVD in a VM
[17:40] <AlanBell> at the moment I have the DVD on hardware and I am booting VMs off it
[17:41] <AlanBell> but it would have been good to have a description of what exactly the start LTSP live thing does
[17:41] <alkisg> I think it could use a faster user account creation mechanism, and more choices about the network (e.g. function as a proxydhcp server with an external dhcp server around), but other than that it seems fine
[17:41] <alkisg> gedit /usr/sbin/ltsp-livecd ;)
[17:42] <AlanBell> alkisg: actually yes! that does explain it all :-)
[17:43] <alkisg> A wiki page would be nice to have though, for people that don't have code-reading skills
[17:44] <AlanBell> yup, tell me where to put it and I will make a start on one
[17:45] <alkisg> Hmmm highvoltage should be the one to ask about that, I think
[17:54] <AlanBell> things like setting up bridged networking in virtualbox guests would be good to put somewhere
[17:55] <AlanBell> any idea how many guests you can get on an Atom based server before it explodes?
[17:58] <alkisg> RAM-wise, you need about 512 + 192*guests
[17:58] <alkisg> (for a full experience, not just an xterm)
[17:59] <alkisg> CPU-wise, it very much depends on if you have LDM_DIRECTX=True (which is true on the livecd),
[17:59] <alkisg> and on the apps you use - e.g. flash really hogs the cpu
[18:43] <LedHed> whats the benefit of "localapps" ?
[18:46] <alkisg> Powerful clients run the apps with their own CPU, relieving the server and the network
[20:13] <vmlintu> joerg: hi.. do you have any installation instructions for the portal?
[20:14] <joerg> vmlintu, not yet :) sorry
[20:14] <joerg> vmlintu, you can try it on our demo server first if you like ;)
[20:15] <vmlintu> joerg: how do I do that?
[20:15] <vmlintu> joerg: we have now also the user management tool here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users
[20:17] <joerg> vmlintu, that looks good. gonna check it out later....
[20:17] <joerg> vmlintu, could be interesting for us as well - the django framework has it's own user management, but some schools will definitely need to use ldap - for printing and proxy auth at least
[20:19] <vmlintu> joerg: it works with and without kerberos now and you can administer as many schools as you want in separate ldap databases in single installation
[20:21] <joerg> vmlintu, well, that's nice but we won't need it :)
[20:21] <joerg> vmlintu, because the schools manage their users themselves...
[20:21] <joerg> we have got enough other stuff to do :)
[20:21] <joerg> but it is useful for support and backup...
[20:21] <vmlintu> joerg: we don't manage the users either, but provide the tools that are centrally managed
[20:22] <joerg> we don't have the bandwidth to manage anything centrally
[20:22] <vmlintu> joerg: where does the "My files" part store the files?
[20:22] <joerg> dsl is unreliable, the upload is quite slow and some schools in the villages only have ISDN dialup
[20:23] <joerg> vmlintu, django has the concept of a "storage"
[20:23] <joerg> in the demo installation it is simply a folder in the filesystem
[20:23] <joerg> but it could be a BLOB field in the DB as well
[20:24] <joerg> or you could use the Amazon S3 storage plugin
[20:24] <vmlintu> so the files are only accessible through the web interface?
[20:24] <joerg> vmlintu, and webdav
[20:24] <vmlintu> is webdav working?
[20:24] <joerg> sure
[20:24] <joerg> at least I hope so :)
[20:25] <joerg> vmlintu, http://demo.myserv-project.org/fs/dav
[20:25] <vmlintu> ValueError at /fs/dav/
[20:25] <joerg> vmlintu, don't open it in the browser, as it returns an ugly traceback
[20:25] <vmlintu> ok
[20:25] <joerg> vmlintu, yeah, because you are doing a GET on a webdav collection.
[20:26] <joerg> vmlintu, should return a 403 Forbidden or so...
[20:26] <joerg> didn't catch that exception yet.
[20:26] <joerg> vmlintu, in nautilus you can simply go to: dav://demo.myserv-project.org/fs/dav
[20:28] <vmlintu> seems to work
[20:29] <vmlintu> do you know if it could use cifs as backend?
[20:32] <joerg> vmlintu, hmm, depends what you mean with "backend"
[20:33] <joerg> you can store it on an auto mounted cifs storage, sure...
[20:34] <joerg> vmlintu, in case that you want your users to access their "My Files" via cifs, it could be a bit tricky...
[20:35] <vmlintu> we have used before a web interface that reads everything through cifs with user permissions
[20:35] <vmlintu> http://www.simple-groupware.de/cms/WebDisk/IntegraTUMWebDisk
[20:35] <joerg> vmlintu, the problem is the permissions: in myserv you can add shares to your profile or to the profile of the group that you just founded.
[20:35] <vmlintu> alternative would be to figure out how windows users get the files working without cifs
[20:36] <joerg> vmlintu, hmm? just mount it!
[20:36] <joerg> vmlintu, I have tried it under Windows XP - just add one of these so called "web folders"
[20:37] <joerg> which is just a webdav client
[20:38] <vmlintu> hmm.. I guess I have to try that once I find a windows box..
[20:40] <joerg> hehe....that's sometimes difficult, I know.
[20:40] <joerg> but there was an issue I think
[20:41] <joerg> with webdav stuff not sitting at the webservers root
[20:41] <joerg> that caused problems on windoze
[20:41] <joerg> that's why I should add a vhost webdav.demo.myserv-project.org if anybody wants to test it on windows
[20:42] <joerg> vmlintu, another idea would be to automount that stuff using davfs
[20:42] <joerg> vmlintu, and export that through samba
[20:44] <vmlintu> I wonder how fast that would be..
[20:51] <vmlintu> I'll do some testing with the portal later this week and check the sources
[20:52] <joerg> vmlintu, I wouldn't use that as home dir...
[20:52] <joerg> it is a place in the web to share stuff with others...
[20:52] <joerg> not a place for heaps of dot files and app data :P
[20:55] <vmlintu> are you planning on acls for the shares?
[21:28] <joerg> vmlintu, well there are acls :P
[21:29] <joerg> vmlintu, you can edit/view them in a very uncomfortable way right now by right click on a file and "Edit ACL..."
[21:30] <joerg> vmlintu, they are automatically generated if you add a share to a profile
[21:31] <joerg> but from our experience, manually setting acls is overkill for students and especially teachers
[21:31] <joerg> they love you if you make things easy.
[21:31] <joerg> that's why the share concept exists:
[21:31] <joerg> if I want to share a folder I add it to my profile and select read/write for my friends and/or everybody
[21:32] <joerg> if I want to share a folder in a group, I add it to the group profile and select read/write for the group members
[21:35] <vmlintu> yes, it really should be kept simple for the users
[22:07] <joerg> vmlintu, got a demo server of your project as well?
[22:09] <vmlintu> joerg: not a public one at the moment
[22:12] <joerg> vmlintu, hmm, ok....is it easy to install? then I'd just check it out right now ;)
[22:12] <joerg> got a meeting concerning these things tomorrow.....
[22:13] <vmlintu> there's a setup tool here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
[22:14] <vmlintu> it has been tested on clean lucid server installs only, though
[22:15] <vmlintu> the installation instructions for the whole thing are here: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/
[22:17] <vmlintu> I'm working on an actual website and demo server now.. just need to get some new servers installed
[22:53] <joerg> vmlintu, ah okay....well, I am too tired to follow all that instructions right now....
[22:54] <joerg> doesn't look like if I could make that in 20 minutes...
[22:54] <joerg> I don't have more if I want to have 7 hours of sleep :)
[22:59] <vmlintu> 20 minutes is probably not enough if you haven't done it before
[23:19] <joerg> vmlintu, well, slapd and ldap auth is running here :)
[23:20] <vmlintu> did you use the script?
[23:21] <joerg> vmlintu, yes, your script....ages ago
[23:22] <joerg> you certainly remember
[23:22] <joerg> when I found an error which was not an error :)
[23:22] <vmlintu> I mean the scripts here: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools
[23:23] <joerg> ah, no.....I was brushing my teeth :)
[23:23] <vmlintu> that does all the steps I wrote in the blog
[23:37] <joerg> vmlintu, just a hint to make it easier: apt-add-repository ppa:opinsys does the sources list thing and the key import :)
[23:41] <joerg> do I need that kerberos stuff?
[23:41] <joerg> I dont want it :P
[23:42] <joerg> and I don't want samba
[23:42] <vmlintu> kerberos is not required, but the setup script configures it now always