[00:18] If I wanted to fix some of those many bugs. How your I go about it? [00:19] ChrisWoollard: You'd have to have TeX Live 2009 installed, download the lucid-e2 branch from bzr, and then start editing. [00:20] Don't just take the bug reporters' words for it, though. They may not always be right. :) [00:20] (Technically, you don't need TL2009, but it's good to test that it compiles successfully before you commit.) [00:21] I know they might not be accurate. [00:21] But at least they have spent the effort finding things [00:23] What do you do after editing? That is the bit I am unsure of? [00:23] Save the file, commit it to bzr, and push. [00:23] Do you know how to use bzr? [00:23] Not to much but I have read http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/ [00:24] And i have managed to get the manual from bzr ok before [00:24] What is the location to push revisions too? I've just done some bug-fixes [00:27] bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual, yes? [00:28] Zeike: yes. [00:28] ChrisWoollard: the basic workflow is: [00:28] bzr pull [00:28] make edits [00:28] bzr pull (again) [00:28] bzr commit [00:28] bzr push [00:28] lather, rinse, repeat. [00:29] I assume that that second bzr pull is the collect updated revisions before commiting [00:30] ChrisWoollard: yep [00:30] make sure that, if a pull modifies a file you've been working on, it didn't screw something up. [00:31] thanks. that is useful. [00:31] That makes sense/ [00:39] Night All..... [01:31] On page 121 there is a nice chart of the standard files directories with a quick introduction. Is it planned to add a complete description of what most of these directories are for? [01:32] Also, the section immediately after that on "Mounting and unmounting removable devices" seems out of place in the command line section. [01:33] Zeike: I think that was one of the unfinished sections. Explaining the Linux file system layout. [01:36] is there a place on launchpad where we're keeping track of that sort of thing? [01:37] Not that I know of. [01:37] Feel free to file a bug so we don't forget. [01:38] Alright. I don't mind writing the file system descriptions either [01:41] Sure. You might email the list and ask what should go there. I don't know what they originally had in mind. [01:42] i cant remember who did that section it was added on right at the last minute [01:47] I filed a bug [01:53] * humphreybc is doing python labs, everyone, beware! [02:00] So I noticed from the mailing list that theres some tension between this & the ubuntu-docs team? [02:01] there used to be, but now I think everything is coming right [02:02] well, we hope [02:05] well thats good then [02:06] flan: ping [02:06] * humphreybc cries for help [02:07] godbyk, ping [02:07] humphreybc: pong [02:07] help me! [02:07] what's up? [02:07] I'm trying to catch up on labs that I missed while I was away [02:07] Conveniently, I also missed the associated lectures [02:08] * nisshh throws humphreybc a python lifesavers ring [02:08] fun [02:08] which means that I'm firing myself blindly into the object oriented bit of python [02:08] which means I have no idea what I'm doing [02:08] oooh, i did some OOP just the other day [02:08] I have two python files, Point.py and Rectangle.py [02:08] etherpad? [02:09] sure. [02:09] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/humphreybc-help [03:00] Is anyone currently editing the manual? [03:00] (So I don't end up creating conflicts when we all commit our changes.) [03:03] I don't think so [03:03] Ilya was ediitng last but he's gone now? [03:05] Ilya's out for a bit. But a couple other people were going to start editing, I think. [03:05] hmm [03:06] we should have a meeting, this weekend? [03:06] We do need to have a meeting very soon, yeah. [03:06] I'm game for this weekend. [03:06] okay [03:06] i'll sort it out later today [03:06] sounds good [03:07] did daker look at that malware thing on our site? [03:07] I love Joey's sidebar image for our "Show us ya bugs" competition on omgubuntu [03:08] check it out, top of the sidebar on the right, http://omgubuntu.co.uk [03:08] I fixed the malware thing. [03:08] nice [03:08] hard to read, though. [03:08] when Ilya and yourself have been triaging bugs, have you been assigning and targeting to milestones? [03:09] or just changing the status? [03:09] I've just started. I try to assign milestones. [03:09] also, priority would be nice too [03:09] Though so far I've been mostly just marking the invalid ones to get them out of the way. [03:09] sure [03:09] yep [03:10] not sure how we're going to keep track of who's submitted 10 confirmed [03:10] I guess we just wait for someone to say they have, then go into their launchpad profile and see if they've got 10 bugs listed that are confirmed [03:10] or you can go through and tally 'em up at some point. :) [03:10] or i could do that, yeah [03:10] lol [03:14] howcome this aint working no more? http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8 [03:14] and how many copies of the book have sold on lulu? [03:14] humphreybc: because it's doing evil things and I haven't fixed it yet. [03:15] (it tries to pull the entire db table into memory and then tally things up instead of running nice SQL queries that do the work for us.) [03:16] Ooh.. free shipping on orders over $19.95 for this summer (at lulu.com). [03:16] I think ~70 books have been sold. [03:16] shit! [03:16] Hard to tell though as lulu doesn't tell me when each book is sold. just gives me odd counts. [03:16] that's still pretty impressive. [03:16] do you know how many downloads now? [03:16] or do we have to wait till that thing is fixed [03:16] no clue [03:17] we'll have to wait 'til we get the stats page fixed [03:17] damn, i want to see if we're over 100,000 :) [03:18] nope. around 87k, I think. [03:18] almost there [03:19] and over 3k people signed up for notification when their translation is released. [03:19] oh crap [03:19] how are they going anyway? [03:19] can we get some translated ones out? [03:20] German and Greek are fairly close. [03:20] But don't go posting things to twitter yet. :) [03:20] are they being edited? [03:20] yeah. [03:20] groovy [03:20] Spanish would be lovely to get out [03:21] should I be looking here for the latest translation status, or somewhere else? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual [03:21] that's the place, basically. [03:22] requests for notification on the translations: [03:22] spanish = 967 [03:23] russian = 321 [03:23] i have an idea [03:23] portuguese =276 [03:23] german = 261 [03:23] vietnamese = 258 [03:23] for a feature on the website [03:23] spanish = another 224 [03:23] swedish = 145 [03:23] russian = another 140 [03:23] nisshh: fire away [03:24] well, i was thinking, why not have all the languages currently being worked on listed in a drop-down box on the downloads page [03:24] when you go to download it [03:25] and if that language isnt yet complete, have a percentage bar(can we get the progress from LP?) showing how complete it ids [03:25] is [03:25] what do you think? [03:25] this way people would be like "Ah, itll be ready in my language soon" [03:26] I think right now you get taken to a page that says, 'Your translation is incomplete. If you want to help translating, go here.' But we could add a progress bar to that page, probably. [03:26] rather than "Awww, they wont ever produce it in my lang" [03:26] it might also be handy to adjust the front page of our site to have an area for news and notices. [03:27] godbyk: ah cool, its just a small thing that may get more people interested and spread the word [03:27] so we can tell people what we're working on right now and what we need help with. [03:27] godbyk: yea! [03:27] we also need to write more instructions for helping us. [03:28] right now we get them set up with the right software, but then we don't tell them what to do next. [03:28] yeah [03:28] yep [03:28] big issue i think [03:28] meeting this saturday then humphreybc? [03:29] humphreybc: yea [03:29] humphreybc: are you talking to yourself again? [03:29] :) [03:30] oops [03:30] i'm trying to play guitar now :P [03:30] i thought you played drums? [03:30] and guitar [03:30] and trumpet [03:30] right, i play guuitar too [03:31] electric [03:31] not very good though [03:31] I used to play low brass instruments (tuba, baritone, euphonium, sousaphone) and the keyboard bass. [03:32] windsor_: hey dude [03:32] hi nisshh! [03:32] godbyk I can picture you playing low brass [03:32] hehe [03:32] :) [03:33] about the second bug I filed today...I guess I didn't do my homework before posting a bug. In US Grammar the punctuation IS placed within the quotation marks [03:34] sorry guys [03:34] im watching all 12 seasons of pokemon again, its 110GB! [03:34] windsor_: no probs, just mark it as invalid [03:35] windsor_: No worries. [03:35] windsor_: We should've pointed out that we're playing by US rules. [03:35] There are times when we break those rules, too. [03:35] godbyk: that would have been nice to do ages ago, considering all the spam i have got about it [03:35] (Especially the punctuation-inside-quotation-marks rule.. it makes things confusing sometimes.) [03:35] yeah, ever since grade school I've been going with certain rules that may differ from that used in the Manual [03:35] :) [03:36] =D [03:36] Ah, nisshh, you needed something to read anyway! :) [03:36] godbyk: there are at least 10-15 comma bugs reported on lp now, hehe [03:36] godbyk: meh [03:37] all of them for the first 15 pages too [03:37] yeah, I saw [03:39] about the Maverick manual.. is it planned to add new stuff as the dev build continues? [03:40] arhrhahrah, keep hitting control + x on my keyboard [03:40] windsor_: yes [03:40] ok great [03:40] windsor_: we plan to keep up with changes made in each new release of ubuntu [03:41] I see [03:43] can't wait for Maverick, RGBA graphics by default hee hee XD [03:45] so the whole manual is written according to US Grammatical Rules, what about spelling? [03:46] Spelling is US, too. [03:47] We do have a UK English translation, though. :) [03:47] ok [03:47] and AU is based on UK [03:47] well, mostly [03:48] ok, I'll go with US Style for everything then [03:50] thx for the clarification XD [03:53] bye everybody [03:54] cya [03:54] See ya, windsor_ [03:54] godbyk: hows the style guide coming along? [03:55] What do you guys think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584452? [03:55] I'm not particularly interested in the fact that Ubuntu is Debian-based, and I our 'getting started' readers are either. But some people in the community can get picky about such things. [03:55] nisshh: very, very slowly. [03:56] I'm going to ping Ilya about it some this week. See if we can get started on it. [03:56] fuck i hate barre chords [03:56] humphreybc: lol [03:57] my index finger just will not bend that way [03:57] humphreybc: how long have you been playing guitar [03:57] godbyk: yea, cool im going to go over it now and have a look [03:57] about 2 years. I usually can get by with traditional chord shapes, which is what I usually play [03:57] (and i've got pretty good at them) [03:58] but when it comes to fucking F#m [03:58] humphreybc: try some ACDC or powderfinger, they have songs that are just single note stuff, or power chords [03:59] humphreybc: you need to have long spidery fingers to do F#m, its evil! [03:59] godbyk: havent actaully read the style guide since the original 2-page version was made [04:00] godbyk: about that bug, why should we not say ubuntu is debian-based? [04:02] godbyk, i know we're both working on the lucid-e2 branch right now. i'm trying to be careful not to step on your toes. [04:03] epkugelmass: no worries. [04:03] if you run into a conflict, you can run 'bzr uncommit' to uncommit your stuff, then 'bzr pull', and 'bzr commit' to recommit your work. [04:03] nisshh: well, we mention it earlier in the sentence already. [04:04] godbyk: right, well id leave it there if its applicaple to mention it twice [04:06] nisshh: have a look at the context of it in the PDF and tell me what you think. [04:07] godbyk: ok [04:08] nisshh: Add your arguments to the bug and ping me if you still think it should be Debian-based. :) [04:08] ok, ok ill do it properly [04:08] (only because I already made the change and resolved the bug.) :) [04:09] godbyk: arh, your too quick for me! [04:10] godbyk: which page is that on? [04:11] I'm not sure. Search for 'Debian-based' [04:11] I think it was in the learning more chapter. [04:17] godbyk: i dont really know yet, but i read each part 3 times each and i cant say it is that bad, but maybe im wrong [04:17] I hear ya. [04:17] lots of nit-picking going on. [04:17] (which I'm okay with.) [04:19] hehe [04:19] aw, nice, a guy just thanked me for the manual in #ubuntu-au-chat [04:19] cool [04:21] apparently this guy just gave this manual to heaps of people and now they all use lucid! [04:21] printed copies or just the pdf? [04:22] pdf apparently [04:22] geez would have been expensive buying 25+ copies of the manual [04:24] true. [04:24] 20 bugs triaged/fixed in 1 hour! [04:25] nice work everyone =] [04:25] epkugelmass: nice! [04:25] i actually really enjoy bug crushing sessions. very satisfying [04:26] godbyk: he says the manual was *exactly* what they needed, they apparently said it was the *perfect* thing to get them started [04:26] nisshh, I'm behind here. Mind recapping? Who said what? [04:27] awesome [04:30] epkugelmass: hehe, you just missed it, a guy in #ubuntu-au-chat told me the story of how he had just given over 25 people the manual and they had all just started using lucid straight away [04:30] WOW! [04:32] i know, thats what i said [04:32] freakin amazing huh? [04:40] gnarly [04:40] humphreybc, any word on the release dates or milestones for e2? july is coming up awfully quickly [04:41] yeah, tell me about it! [04:41] not sure really [04:41] we don't have alphas or anything for e2 [04:42] do we want to have an RC? [04:42] i think the only thing we need is a writing freeze [04:42] i feel like we should have at least one public testing release before we publish [04:42] we could combine the two. [04:43] yeah [04:43] but i would recommend a writing freeze (beta) then an RC, then release [04:43] epkugelmass: agreed [04:44] what's the writing freeze do for us? [04:44] I mean if we stop writing, there's nothing else to do, right? [04:44] proof, fix bugs [04:44] nisshh, humphreybc, we could rename the current e2 milestone to 'beta'. that will maintain the appropriate milestone targeting on the bugs. we can then add two more milestones [04:45] godbyk, it gives us something to release to the translators and our helpful bug catchers in the community [04:45] there's actually no rush for lucid e2 [04:45] we've got 5 years to do it lol [04:46] haha, very funny ----- [04:46] humphreybc: haha, no 3 because its about the desktop [04:47] Is there a planned number of editions or lucid, or just however many that get done? [04:47] editions for lucid* [04:47] just two [04:48] this is the only time we'll update the lucid one, because we didn't have that much time for the first one [04:50] epkugelmass: I think the translators are far enough behind that a writing freeze for e2 won't help them. [04:50] As long as 'writing freeze' does not mean 'string freeze', I'm okay with it. [04:51] If 'writing freeze' means 'no new content, only bug fixes', then I'm all for it. [04:52] godbyk, pardon me for being daft, but what 'first issue' are you addressing here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584492 [04:53] epkugelmass: Great question -- I have no idea! [04:54] lmao. ok, figure it out, or I'm marking the bug fixed. [04:54] I thought it had said something about the /home/ubuntu-manual text -- where 'ubuntu-manual' should be something like 'username' instead. But I must have conflated a couple bugs in my head. [04:54] godbyk: I think I fixed that bug earlier today [04:54] Zeike: okay. [04:54] I have way to many bug report emails. [04:54] I think my brain is fried. [04:55] while we're on that section, any thoughts on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584772 [04:56] Zeike: I passed that one by because we need to write material for that section (or remove it). [04:58] I'll start writing something up then [04:59] is there a style guide in the bzr branch, or is the one linked to in the topic the most recent? [05:01] the one linked to in the topic will be the most recent. [05:03] thanks [05:54] Whats the standard for typesetting a directory? \code? [06:00] Zeike: \code will work for now. [07:10] morning [07:10] 181 bug mail messages [07:28] anyone working on the e2 branch? [07:28] godbyk: are you? ^ [07:30] GODBYK!!!!!! [07:31] Nope. I'm in bed reading. [07:32] ah, ok thats why i had to yell [07:32] :) [07:32] Yep. :-) [07:33] ok, im just adding the glossary stuff from the spreadsheet [07:35] scratch that, im installing texlive, AGAIN! [07:36] nisshh: what version of ubuntu are you usung? [07:39] because we have a lucid ppa [07:41] oh, we do? [07:41] ubuntujenkins: with texlive in it? [07:41] yep [07:41] im running lucid, i have been since feb this year [07:41] we only had it last month i made it [07:42] ah ok [07:42] just getting the instructions [07:42] i heard about it but didnt know it was ready [07:42] whats the ppa called [07:42] http://paste.ubuntu.com/438685/ should be all you need to know [07:44] wow, thats a much smaller download than the official script [07:44] not sure as some stuff comes form the lucid repo. [07:45] I will work this summer to make it for 9.10 etc [07:46] yea [08:11] morning! [08:12] godbyk: didn't you say something about the list being unsubscribed from bugs? [08:14] ah, nm got to Ben's mail about that, after deleting millions of mails [08:14] :) [09:00] ubuntujenkins: ok, i installed tex from the ppa, and i just ran the install-pkgs script from the bzr branch, but it refuses to continue since it thinks i have the repo version of tex [09:01] ubuntujenkins: nah its good now, no worries [09:37] WOW, the word 'distribution' is mentioned nearly 15 times in chapter 9 [09:41] if the word distribution is distributed with such frequency, is it at least distributed evenly? [09:52] thorwil: nope, lol [09:53] its used in almost every sentence for about 4 paragraphs [10:32] godbyk: if your up can you please remind me how to use \gls{} with other commands? [10:32] godbyk-android: ^^^^ [10:38] nvm [10:41] i really do hope no one is hacking on the e2 branch right now [10:51] right, the glossary is now getting there [11:23] yea nisshh the script is not needed if you use the ppa [13:02] hello :) [13:03] is there a particular reason, why the numbers in expressions like "eth0" are written in mathematical mode? ("eth$0$")? [14:07] hey godbyk [14:11] c7p: i think godbyk is asleep [14:12] nisshh: ok :) [16:20] godbyk: ping [16:21] ChrisWoollard: pong [16:21] Hello [16:21] Morning. [16:21] can you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/584035 [16:22] and confirm the answer to the question about po files [16:22] sure. just a moment [16:22] Thank you. [16:23] I did change the settings to NOT import the po files. [16:24] (It was suggested that that would fix the problem we had earlier.) [16:28] Cool. I will update the bug [16:29] 'kay. [16:30] Thank You [16:30] np [16:30] I'll subscribe to the bug so I can keep an eye on it. [16:34] lovely. thanks [16:34] ooo quickshot is on the full circle podcast [16:45] ubuntujenkins: yeah. [16:45] the second part of humphreybc's interview is in there and he's mostly talking about the tools/software we use (and write). [16:46] yea i have listened to it now [17:17] * popey wonders if ubuntujenkins skipped past the good bits to humphreybc's interview ;) [17:17] lol [17:17] like the parts about me and how awesome I am? :-) [17:18] that bit was corrupted in my download [17:18] no popey I have listened to it all so far i am 1:04:50 so far. [17:18] might skip the key note as i have heard it before [17:18] apologies for rambling on [17:18] no it was good [17:18] we had a right time recording it over skype [17:19] i bet i was on a mates podcast it was cool [17:25] hey godbyk [17:25] Hey, c7p [17:27] godbyk: There are three bug reporters on the greek manual (e1). Do they have a chance to participate on the competition or it is only for english manual e2 ? [17:31] c7p: Good question. I don't know. It's Ben's competition; you'll have to ask him. :) [17:33] godbyk: right! Have you checked the text about the font that you were telling me the other day? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/22/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t21:42 [17:34] The Bera Mono bit in the colophon? Not yet. [17:36] so there is no text for translation [17:37] not yet. [17:46] godbyk: Should I add or remove blank pages so the number of the first page of a chapter is prime number (=> left pages)? [17:46] c7p: Nope, no need. [17:47] godbyk: ok as an editor i can tell that the job is finished (there are only 7-10 minor bug fixes that will be done today). What else remains ? [17:48] c7p: I'll have a glance through it to figure out what's left. We need to get the license worked out. (I'll contact Ilya about this.) I'll get you the new text for the colophon in a couple hours. [17:49] Oh, and I'll harass the project leads about the whole credits thing again, too. [17:50] godbyk: what about license ? I don't remember if i have told, topo made the license-el.tex file [17:51] c7p: Did topo translate it himself? If not, where did he get the license from? [17:51] We have to use specific license text from CC. [17:51] yes it's from the site, let me find the link [17:52] Thanks. [17:53] I'll have Ilya double-check it. [17:55] hey all [17:55] the translation is from http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/gr/legalcode [17:57] topografos: Thanks! I'll check with Ilya to make sure that's the license we're supposed to use. [17:57] great [18:33] topografos: When you get a chance, add the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file to the repository. [18:35] c7p has the up-to-date file. I will let him now, as he is currently not online [18:36] topografos: cool. thanks! [20:59] godbyk: ping [21:19] c7p: pong [21:20] I have found a bug on index [21:22]