| === joerg is now known as Guest92691 | ||
| jussi | highvoltage: ping | 07:35 |
|---|---|---|
| EsLo | Hi, seems to be something overriding my .profile when using LTSP in Lucid.. I've created 2 users norsk and nynorsk and set export LANG="nb_NO.UTF-8" for norsk and export LANG="nn_NO.UTF-8" for the nynorsk user. | 14:41 |
| EsLo | When logging in as norsk via ltsp the locale confirms nb_NO | 14:42 |
| EsLo | But nynorsk defaults to en_US in ltsp | 14:42 |
| EsLo | When I log in directly on LTSP server, the locale is nn_NO | 14:43 |
| EsLo | Where do the locale setting get overridden? | 14:44 |
| joerg | hi | 15:22 |
| mhall119 | anyone hwere know anything about the initrd.lz file in the LiveCD? | 15:23 |
| joerg | sbalneav, hey..... | 15:28 |
| joerg | vmlintu, hi...have you got a clean ubuntu server somewhere? | 15:49 |
| vmlintu | joerg: hi.. I can get a new virtual machine running.. | 15:51 |
| joerg | vmlintu, I am currently trying to write a quick installation guide for the early moves... | 15:52 |
| joerg | that's why I ask | 15:52 |
| vmlintu | need help testing the guide? | 15:54 |
| joerg | vmlintu, yes, that would be great... | 16:01 |
| joerg | vmlintu, http://myserv-project.org/install | 16:01 |
| joerg | vmlintu, that should take care of everything....except the configuration | 16:02 |
| joerg | but if that just works on a fresh ubuntu box without any errors, they'd only have to edit settings.py and will be done... | 16:03 |
| vmlintu | ok, I'll try that a bit later, I'm just finishing off other things | 16:04 |
| highvoltage | hey there vmlintu | 16:05 |
| vmlintu | highvoltage: hi | 16:06 |
| highvoltage | vmlintu: I was wondering, did you manage to bring any of the ldap stuff up with the server team during the UDS? | 16:08 |
| vmlintu | highvoltage: no.. there was some discussion about it on ubuntu-server mailing list, but it died off quickly and I couldn't find anything about it later.. | 16:09 |
| highvoltage | vmlintu: ok | 16:09 |
| vmlintu | highvoltage: the sources for the user management side are now on github: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-users | 16:10 |
| highvoltage | oh cool | 16:11 |
| vmlintu | you can manage multiple ldap databases + kerberos realms with a single server installation | 16:12 |
| vmlintu | It uses subdomains to know which one you want to connect to | 16:12 |
| highvoltage | it would be great if that could make it into ubuntu even though it's not used for anything by default yet | 16:13 |
| vmlintu | packaging it would mean first packaging <10 gems that are not in ubuntu or need updates | 16:14 |
| vmlintu | for the ultimate experience you can try setting up openldap+mit kerberos with 30 ldap databases and kerberos realms with a single command: http://github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools | 16:15 |
| joerg | vmlintu, isn't there something like virtualenv in python? | 16:15 |
| vmlintu | what is virtualenv? | 16:15 |
| joerg | a way to install packages in a virtual environment | 16:15 |
| joerg | e.g. myserv has heaps of dependencies as well... | 16:15 |
| joerg | but I will simply include them in the package | 16:16 |
| joerg | the whole thing will be an isolated python environment.... | 16:16 |
| vmlintu | if I understand debian policy correctly, libraries should not be included.. | 16:16 |
| joerg | so I wonder why you can't simply put all your ruby dependencies in your package | 16:16 |
| joerg | hmm, I don't know what kind of libraries you use.... | 16:17 |
| vmlintu | you can put the dependencies easily in the package, but I doubt it would make it in the repos.. | 16:17 |
| joerg | ...but for my project there is a lot of reusable code snippsets | 16:17 |
| joerg | sometimes only available via git or so | 16:17 |
| vmlintu | sounds the same as the gems in ruby.. | 16:18 |
| joerg | well, I have nobody to package ten or so small python snippets... | 16:18 |
| joerg | django_friends, django_oembed, django_openid, django_notification and so on | 16:19 |
| joerg | and then you sometimes need a certain revision/version.... | 16:20 |
| joerg | I simply cannot take care of that. | 16:20 |
| joerg | there will be a batteries included version which simply depends on python and the needed C lib and that's it... | 16:20 |
| joerg | and those python libs that are available in ubuntu as packages.... | 16:20 |
| joerg | e.g. django | 16:21 |
| joerg | but not these 200 lines code snippets | 16:21 |
| joerg | apart from that: moodle for example use the yale CAS php libs | 16:21 |
| joerg | so if it is really that strict.... | 16:22 |
| joerg | somebody should repackage moodle | 16:22 |
| joerg | remove CAS.php and put that in a php5-cas package :) | 16:22 |
| highvoltage | vmlintu: yep, you're right | 16:23 |
| vmlintu | we'll probably have time for packaging sometime during the summer when schools are out | 16:24 |
| joerg | vmlintu, do you think it is too early to post on the mailing list and provide people with access to the demo server? | 16:52 |
| joerg | I am not that experienced in building communities around projects | 16:53 |
| joerg | but I really need an active community and contributors to run and maintain it in the long run | 16:54 |
| vmlintu | joerg: I'm probably not the right person to give advice on that | 16:58 |
| joerg | but you have seen it | 16:59 |
| vmlintu | I haven't gone through the code yet, but better documentation would probably help getting people interested.. I have now hard time understanding what could be done with the project and how could I benefit from it | 17:05 |
| joerg | read the specs :P | 17:08 |
| joerg | what kind of docs do you expect? | 17:08 |
| joerg | how you can add a comment on a profile? how you can upload and share files? | 17:08 |
| joerg | how you can lock and unlock PCs? | 17:08 |
| joerg | what a RSS feed is? | 17:09 |
| joerg | it is quite self explanatory | 17:10 |
| vmlintu | hard to say.. now the specs tell a vision, but the current status is something else | 17:12 |
| joerg | vmlintu, not really | 17:13 |
| vmlintu | but I don't know django, so I don't understand all the things in there.. | 17:14 |
| joerg | none of the teachers here ever heard about django | 17:14 |
| nubae | django is just a python framework | 17:14 |
| nubae | thiink of it as being python | 17:15 |
| joerg | you don't even need to know what python is | 17:15 |
| nubae | its a webalized framework | 17:15 |
| vmlintu | are you focusing teachers with www.myserv-project.org? | 17:16 |
| joerg | you just need to know: there is a new portal server for schools through which you can publish news, message each other, share files and folders with friends/classes/groups, pay for stuff like printing, as a teacher book a room, allow or deny internet access on certain machines, black and white list internet sites in the proxy.... | 17:17 |
| joerg | vmlintu, who else should I focus? | 17:18 |
| joerg | bus drivers? :o) | 17:18 |
| joerg | a portal server for schools usually has teachers and students in focus, yes :P | 17:18 |
| joerg | and those who are interested in technical stuff can read the technical specs. | 17:18 |
| nubae | talking about schooltool? | 17:18 |
| joerg | the teachers probably gonna simply have a look at the demo. | 17:19 |
| joerg | because they are not really interested what technologies/languages are used.... | 17:19 |
| joerg | they just want to get work done... | 17:19 |
| joerg | nubae, no. | 17:19 |
| joerg | myserv | 17:19 |
| joerg | my upcoming project :) | 17:19 |
| nubae | aha, never heard of it | 17:19 |
| nubae | shall take a look | 17:19 |
| joerg | it won't hurt :) | 17:20 |
| nubae | hehe, i hope not | 17:20 |
| nubae | or i'll come find u | 17:20 |
| nubae | ;-) | 17:20 |
| vmlintu | if I wanted to contribute to it, what could/should I do? | 17:21 |
| joerg | nubae, the web site is very technical as vmlintu correctly noticed :P but as teachers don't want to read anything either I am just showing them the demo | 17:21 |
| joerg | vmlintu, report bugs ;) test it.... criticize it... | 17:22 |
| joerg | implement a feature.... | 17:22 |
| joerg | finding out how it cooperates with your puavo-users stuff | 17:22 |
| nubae | welll I?m a dev so good thing for me I guess | 17:23 |
| vmlintu | I don't know django, but it says I can write modules in any language - how do I write a module using brainfuck? | 17:23 |
| joerg | vmlintu, probably brainfuck + cgi? :P | 17:23 |
| joerg | apart from that you should really have a look at django. you will love it :P | 17:23 |
| vmlintu | how do I get the module working with myserv? | 17:23 |
| vmlintu | I had a look at it and chose ruby on rails | 17:24 |
| joerg | vmlintu, follow the opensocial specs at opensocial.org :) | 17:24 |
| joerg | that would be one way, but the gadgets/opensocial is not yet completely implemented.... | 17:25 |
| joerg | your module could then be added as a small gadget on the user's welcome page or a group administrator could for example add it as a tab in the group profile..... | 17:25 |
| nubae | joerg....I've loooked into many many school apps | 17:26 |
| vmlintu | you have all the answers, but maybe you could make a tutorial-like example how to get started developing on it? | 17:26 |
| nubae | can u tell me why this is say better than schooltool/moodle/mahara | 17:26 |
| nubae | or is this somethign that can work alongside those apps | 17:27 |
| nubae | (would be better for me) | 17:27 |
| joerg | nobody wants to replace moodle | 17:27 |
| joerg | if you want moodle, use it. myserv will be happy to integrate it into it's navigation and provide a single sign on system | 17:27 |
| nubae | well, that would be like an impossile/stupid feat | 17:27 |
| joerg | so you'd only have to log in to myserv and could use your moodle | 17:28 |
| joerg | without authenticating again. | 17:28 |
| nubae | ok good | 17:28 |
| joerg | and if you want to use roundcube, install it. | 17:28 |
| joerg | I am not trying to replace existing good things. | 17:28 |
| joerg | I am just trying to build a portal around them. | 17:28 |
| vmlintu | if it integrates moodle, how do I do it? | 17:30 |
| nubae | so is it more like CLaSS student system? | 17:30 |
| joerg | I don't know what CLaSS is | 17:30 |
| joerg | nubae, did you get my private msg? then log in and see how it looks like.... | 17:30 |
| joerg | vmlintu, you install moodle, configure it to authenticate against ldap + cas and that's it. | 17:31 |
| nubae | well its what some schools have been using (particularly british ones) for student/classrooom management | 17:31 |
| nubae | yes I did | 17:31 |
| nubae | I'm lookking | 17:31 |
| nubae | but difficult to get an overview so quickly | 17:31 |
| joerg | vmlintu, you could add a link in the menu as well, and maybe load moodle in an iframe....or a new window. | 17:31 |
| vmlintu | joerg: how do I know what to do if I stumble on the page? | 17:32 |
| joerg | nubae, well, imagine myserv like an internal "facebook" for a school | 17:32 |
| nubae | thats why I'm wondering what its MOST like? class= http://laex.org/class/ | 17:32 |
| nubae | mahara | 17:32 |
| nubae | do u know it? | 17:33 |
| nubae | its touted as being the social networking tool to fit in with moodle | 17:33 |
| joerg | I am just looking at it... | 17:34 |
| nubae | Mahara is an open source e-portfolio system with a flexible display framework. Mahara, meaning 'think' or 'thought' in Te Reo Māori, is user centred environment with a permissions framework that enables different views of an e-portfolio to be easily managed. Mahara also features a weblog, resume builder and social networking system, connecting users and creating online learner communities. | 17:35 |
| nubae | I'd imagine its something like that? | 17:35 |
| joerg | you don't have to copy the website for me | 17:35 |
| joerg | but thx :D | 17:35 |
| nubae | was just the description of what it was | 17:35 |
| nubae | didn't want to hassle u with having to wade through the whole thing :-) | 17:35 |
| joerg | well, does mahara act as a single sign on system? | 17:35 |
| nubae | sorry was just trying to be helpful | 17:35 |
| nubae | oh yes | 17:36 |
| joerg | what sso system? | 17:36 |
| nubae | and more, it shares all data with moodle | 17:36 |
| nubae | whichever u set it up with could be openid | 17:37 |
| joerg | as provider? | 17:37 |
| joerg | nubae, what if I am logged into mahara and want to access my webmail? | 17:38 |
| joerg | you have to login again, right? | 17:39 |
| joerg | because mahara is only openid consumer | 17:39 |
| joerg | and the mail client / imap server is not openid capable | 17:39 |
| nubae | u could... it uses rmlpc(SP?) for sharing data | 17:39 |
| nubae | shit... forgot the proper name | 17:39 |
| joerg | hehe | 17:40 |
| joerg | anyway.....can a teacher book a room using mahara? | 17:40 |
| nubae | http://wiki.mahara.org/System_Administrator's_Guide/Moodle//Mahara_Integration | 17:41 |
| nubae | that tells moe about moodle and single sign on and mahara system | 17:41 |
| nubae | that sounds more like a school tool kind of thing | 17:41 |
| nubae | but I couldnt honestly tell u | 17:42 |
| joerg | that sounds like mahara is only working with moodle | 17:42 |
| joerg | and not with squirrelmail | 17:42 |
| nubae | its more like a social networking tool (e-portfolio) than anything else | 17:42 |
| joerg | or roundcube, or xyz | 17:42 |
| joerg | or foobar integrated library system/opac | 17:42 |
| joerg | whatsoever | 17:42 |
| vmlintu | joerg: these are the things you should write on your website - why it rocks | 17:42 |
| nubae | it is VERY integrated wtih moodle yes | 17:42 |
| nubae | almost like a plugin | 17:43 |
| joerg | vmlintu, I will :) | 17:43 |
| joerg | nubae, yeah, but what I'm trying is to provide an open interface to everything. | 17:43 |
| joerg | just look for CAS or even openid.... | 17:43 |
| nubae | If u dont mind, I wil do a write up about your app on my site (nubae.com) | 17:43 |
| vmlintu | when I hear portal I think of yahoo | 17:43 |
| nubae | there is a write up there about mahara and moodle | 17:44 |
| nubae | worth taking a look | 17:44 |
| joerg | I just read it | 17:44 |
| joerg | it tells me that it is only focused on that particular product | 17:44 |
| nubae | oh... the write up on nubae.com? | 17:44 |
| joerg | 99 of 100 schools here don't need moodle | 17:44 |
| joerg | haha, and we have 150 schools here which we are supporting | 17:45 |
| nubae | hmm... that is a VERY srtong comment | 17:45 |
| joerg | nobody ever asked for a moodle setup :) | 17:45 |
| nubae | about 40% or Britiish schools use it | 17:45 |
| joerg | oh | 17:45 |
| joerg | well teachers here dont want it | 17:46 |
| joerg | because it is more work | 17:46 |
| nubae | where would that be? | 17:46 |
| joerg | and has no benefit... | 17:46 |
| nubae | I would strongly argue against that | 17:46 |
| joerg | they dont want to login there, assign tasks and things like that | 17:46 |
| joerg | they tell them in class what the homework is | 17:46 |
| joerg | they won't turn on a computer for it | 17:46 |
| nubae | but I've been involved with moodle for 5 years and know it like the back of my hand so am somewhat biased | 17:47 |
| joerg | I can only tell you how it is here | 17:47 |
| joerg | at these 140 german schools | 17:47 |
| joerg | they say: "nice, but we don't need it, it won't improve the quality of the lessons" | 17:47 |
| nubae | funny... because the largest moodle setup I know of is in Austria | 17:47 |
| nubae | I lived there for many years | 17:47 |
| nubae | Ich wurde wirchlich nicht saggen dass man Moodle nich braucht... | 17:48 |
| joerg | I only tell you how it is here | 17:48 |
| joerg | in northern germany | 17:48 |
| joerg | which is 800km from the austrian border | 17:48 |
| joerg | austria is a technology playground | 17:49 |
| joerg | they have mobile broadband everywhere, they are rich and small | 17:49 |
| joerg | and have almost no social problems.....like we have in the suburbs of berlin etc. | 17:49 |
| nubae | ok... I believe u... but as u are seemingly against moodle... does that mean that your product was not built with it in mind? | 17:49 |
| nubae | sorry for the harsh questions, but I must ask them | 17:50 |
| nubae | if I am to write an unbiased report | 17:50 |
| ColonelPanik | nubae, Do you know of any OpenSource language programs that would do what Rosetta Stone does? | 17:51 |
| nubae | an open interface to everything doesnt tell me much... its like saying, I'm building a website that will do everything... I would prefer a description of what your site actually does, who its for, why it was created (what joolted it on - there is always something/someone) that forces that) | 17:52 |
| nubae | ColonelPanik, in what sense? | 17:53 |
| nubae | joerg... I do love the interface though... its simple | 17:54 |
| nubae | obvious | 17:54 |
| nubae | and teachers would feel at home right away | 17:54 |
| nubae | but I'm still struggling with what it actually does | 17:54 |
| nubae | for me... a facebook for moodle is totaly mahjara, and i think u would agree, so u need another description | 17:55 |
| ColonelPanik | General computer aided language acquisition. Something to learn English, Spanish, etc. | 17:55 |
| nubae | but like apps for the desktop? | 17:56 |
| nubae | or for development work? | 17:56 |
| ColonelPanik | Schools, students go to the language lab, use computer to learn a language? | 17:57 |
| nubae | ColonelPanik, I am quite involved with Sugar.... | 17:57 |
| nubae | I know it has some great language tools... | 17:58 |
| ColonelPanik | http://www.rosettastone.com | 17:58 |
| nubae | then there is gcompris | 17:58 |
| nubae | italso has some great tools inside | 17:58 |
| nubae | I've heard of roseta stone and probaby used t, but need to refresh my memory | 17:59 |
| nubae | let me take a look | 17:59 |
| ColonelPanik | Thanks nubae, my wife teaches ESL at the university level and Rosetta Stone is very expensive | 18:00 |
| nubae | yeah that I know :-) I see it on all the torrent sites because of that | 18:00 |
| nubae | google should have some tools for that purpose | 18:01 |
| nubae | chrome has the amazing ability to translate really well any website into another language | 18:02 |
| nubae | to the degree it almost reads like it was written in that language | 18:02 |
| nubae | you should check to see if google hasnt developed someting great | 18:02 |
| nubae | ColonelPanik, u know rosettta stone works with wine right? | 18:05 |
| nubae | but she wants to be legal? | 18:05 |
| nubae | http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10409371-264.html - google edges to rosetta stone status | 18:06 |
| nubae | have a read of that | 18:06 |
| nubae | its what I thought might be the case | 18:07 |
| nubae | joerg, did I upset u with any of my comments? that was truly not my intention | 18:10 |
| ColonelPanik | For sure we will be legal. And OPEN SOURCE | 18:11 |
| nubae | I would like to write a piece on your software, it might boost your user based considerably | 18:11 |
| ColonelPanik | nubae, Do not translation need a program to learn a language. | 18:12 |
| nubae | ColonelPanik, http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/54605 | 18:12 |
| nubae | that link should be a good starting point | 18:13 |
| nubae | yes, but I think google is working on something like that... it would need some digging.... but it mst be out there.... they've invested a hell of a lot into translation and language tools | 18:14 |
| ColonelPanik | nubae, Thank you. Thats what I am talking about. | 18:14 |
| nubae | I'd be surprised if there wasn't a tool they created to learn languages | 18:14 |
| nubae | no probs... | 18:15 |
| joerg | hmm | 18:27 |
| joerg | nubae, sorry dinner :P | 18:27 |
| joerg | nothing against you | 18:27 |
| nubae | oh... bon apetit then | 18:28 |
| nubae | we can talk later | 18:28 |
| joerg | I am back :P | 18:29 |
| joerg | I wasn't upset | 18:29 |
| joerg | I was having dinner | 18:29 |
| joerg | anyway: I can just tell you what I already said: 140 of 140 clients did not ask us for moodle | 18:29 |
| joerg | and if there are people in austria who LOVE it | 18:30 |
| joerg | and cannot live without it | 18:30 |
| joerg | I don't care. | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | woot! RC for Qimo 2 is out: http://www.quinncoincorporated.org/qimo-2.0-desktop-rc1.iso.torrent | 18:30 |
| joerg | I am not paid for making solutions for austrians :) | 18:30 |
| highvoltage | mhall119: did you compress that initramfs? | 18:30 |
| mhall119 | I found out I needed to extract the gzipped version made by update-initramfs, and compress it with lzma instead | 18:31 |
| mhall119 | also, I left the gzipped version in /boot, which it seems I didn't need to do | 18:31 |
| joerg | nubae, the strength of myserv is or will be, that it integrates everything - as far as I know schooltool like solutions, they follow the "the teacher is god" concept | 18:31 |
| joerg | nubae, or the admin is god. | 18:32 |
| mhall119 | between that, and removing some stuff from /var/cache/man/cat, I was able to get it down to 699.4 MB | 18:32 |
| nubae | joerg, ok, well, I will analyse all the options and do a write about it explaining that it is menat to be a school product that ties into existing school products already in use in those schools | 18:37 |
| nubae | dioes that sound about right? | 18:37 |
| nubae | has it been translated into many languages? | 18:38 |
| joerg | lol | 18:38 |
| joerg | the project was born on 26th of january :P | 18:38 |
| joerg | what do you expect? | 18:38 |
| nubae | just questions | 18:38 |
| joerg | what you can see is a small demo of revision 159 of the code | 18:38 |
| nubae | I willmention that too | 18:38 |
| joerg | there's nothing ready for production | 18:38 |
| nubae | ah ok, when will it be production ready? | 18:39 |
| joerg | nubae, anyway.....as far as I can see, mahara is only a social network | 18:39 |
| nubae | ie...when do u expect a release? | 18:39 |
| joerg | it only focuses on one product | 18:39 |
| joerg | and does not provide open interfaces and technologies | 18:39 |
| nubae | its extremely good at what it does | 18:39 |
| joerg | so it is quite different | 18:39 |
| joerg | that might be | 18:39 |
| nubae | being an e-portfolio | 18:40 |
| nubae | a personalised area for students and teachers using moodle | 18:40 |
| joerg | yes, but I am just telling you why it is absolutely not suitable for us. | 18:40 |
| nubae | oh I didnt think it was, I was just trying to get a feel for a similar product | 18:40 |
| joerg | and I am not against moodle | 18:41 |
| nubae | and thought from your first description it migjt be mahara | 18:41 |
| joerg | I just say: MY clients dont ask me for moodle | 18:41 |
| nubae | but I guess its not | 18:41 |
| joerg | so I am not focused on it | 18:41 |
| nubae | have u looked at class? | 18:41 |
| joerg | even though myserv can integrate it | 18:41 |
| nubae | that might be more like what myserv is like | 18:42 |
| joerg | nope | 18:42 |
| joerg | absolutely not | 18:42 |
| joerg | as far as I can see, you can manage marks and stuff with it. | 18:42 |
| nubae | ok, I'll treat it as a new product that has no known competitors | 18:43 |
| joerg | hmm | 18:43 |
| joerg | iserv is one :P | 18:43 |
| nubae | ok.... that helps | 18:43 |
| joerg | but that won't help you unless you are quite fluent in german | 18:44 |
| nubae | if i can show how myserv is superior, it will make a better story | 18:44 |
| nubae | I am | 18:44 |
| joerg | nubae, the thing is: e.g. mahara is a quite isolated environment | 18:44 |
| nubae | hab in österreich eine ganze weile gelebt | 18:44 |
| joerg | is there a way to integrate it into ldap? | 18:44 |
| joerg | for the users/groups? | 18:44 |
| nubae | absolutely | 18:45 |
| joerg | oh, ok, then I didn't really find it qhile quickly scanning the docs. | 18:45 |
| alkisg | joerg, is there a beta available for your myserv? What can it do already? | 18:45 |
| joerg | anyway....I don't know all that stuff in detail | 18:45 |
| nubae | thats its strength it shares absolutely all its data with moodle via rml-rpc | 18:45 |
| joerg | yes, but please understand that I do not concern it as a strength | 18:46 |
| joerg | for us | 18:46 |
| nubae | I am not going to compare it to mahara if u say the 2 products are differet | 18:46 |
| joerg | if none of your customers wants to use microsoft windows, it doesn't help you if you have the best windows integrating software ever | 18:47 |
| nubae | I would prefer to compare to a real competito like ierv | 18:47 |
| nubae | iserv | 18:47 |
| joerg | well...it is inspired by iserv. | 18:47 |
| joerg | because these guys have a monopoly here | 18:47 |
| nubae | ok I shalll mention that too | 18:47 |
| joerg | you shouldn't write anything anywhere before there is a more or less working beta :P | 18:48 |
| nubae | is the idea for myserv to be international? | 18:48 |
| nubae | ok, fine | 18:48 |
| joerg | the idea for myserv is at first sight: solve OUR problems | 18:48 |
| nubae | I'l give u my email private | 18:48 |
| joerg | we are just so nice that we don't sell it but share it with others as OSS | 18:48 |
| nubae | u write me when u think its ready for a review | 18:48 |
| joerg | well it already is :9 | 18:49 |
| joerg | but you have to use the demo | 18:49 |
| joerg | and click through it | 18:49 |
| joerg | as there is no documentation available at the moment saying: it rocks, because you can do A, B and C | 18:49 |
| joerg | I just can tell you in brief what it does: | 18:49 |
| joerg | it supports several auth backends (including ldap), it acts aus SSO provider for others like webmail and moodle, it provides social networking stuff (have friends, have a profile, found a group, make a group profile). | 18:50 |
| joerg | it provides file sharing capabilities, that's quite important for us. | 18:50 |
| joerg | the users have a web based (ajax) file manager to upload and manage their home directory | 18:51 |
| joerg | and they can add a so called share to their own profile and share it with their friends (r, rw) or everyboddy (r, rw) | 18:51 |
| joerg | and you can add a share to a group profile | 18:51 |
| joerg | if you are the group manager/founder. | 18:51 |
| nubae | so its like a moodle+mahara but inspired by iserv and for your particular userbase | 18:52 |
| joerg | e.g. a read only folder in your home that you as a teacher share with your students - which provides a homework task as pdfs etc. | 18:52 |
| nubae | northern germany | 18:52 |
| nubae | to me that sounds exactly like moodle+mahara | 18:53 |
| joerg | it is more like facebook + "share a folder with this group/my friends" | 18:53 |
| nubae | yep... thats mahara | 18:53 |
| joerg | hmm, maybe should get a demo account there then :) | 18:53 |
| nubae | but f u dont want me to, i wont even mention moodle or mahara | 18:54 |
| joerg | well, and apart from that: personalized start page with RSS feeds, notifications, gadgets (opensocial) | 18:54 |
| nubae | yeah u shoould | 18:54 |
| nubae | agaijn....mahara | 18:54 |
| joerg | hmm, ok | 18:54 |
| joerg | and well, the files stuff is accessible through webdav | 18:54 |
| nubae | even drag and drop interface | 18:54 |
| nubae | to move stuff around | 18:55 |
| joerg | drag and drop is nothing magical :P | 18:55 |
| nubae | it would probablyhelp with some ideas | 18:55 |
| nubae | i know | 18:55 |
| nubae | but teachers and studnets love it | 18:55 |
| joerg | hmm, ok.... | 18:55 |
| joerg | ok, and apart from that the intranet stuff | 18:56 |
| nubae | read through my write up and follow the instructions | 18:56 |
| joerg | block host foobar from internet access | 18:56 |
| joerg | allow internet access in room 123 | 18:56 |
| nubae | u'llthen get an idea of what it is and how it compare | 18:56 |
| joerg | block www.youtube.com for 30 minutes in room 312 | 18:57 |
| nubae | and maybe gives u some ideasm u can integrate | 18:57 |
| nubae | ok, thats original | 18:57 |
| nubae | dont think moodle ormahara do that | 18:57 |
| nubae | but another product does | 18:58 |
| nubae | :-) | 18:58 |
| nubae | but of course i forgot the name | 19:00 |
| nubae | its used extensively with ltsp | 19:01 |
| nubae | as the user manager | 19:01 |
| nubae | damn whats it called again... | 19:01 |
| nubae | its used to control terminals and other computers | 19:02 |
| joerg | but not windoze computers I guess | 19:02 |
| nubae | u can even share a single desktop with all the others | 19:02 |
| joerg | we just need to block proxy access / ip masquerading | 19:02 |
| nubae | yah windows too | 19:02 |
| joerg | hmm, the mahara thing looks good | 19:03 |
| joerg | first thing: how do I access my files or group files locally? | 19:04 |
| joerg | is there a way to mount it under linux? | 19:04 |
| joerg | and connect it as a drive in windows? | 19:04 |
| nubae | like I said, run through the doc I wrote | 19:05 |
| nubae | it'll give u an idea of everything possible | 19:05 |
| nubae | and yes, its done by a group of coders related to the moodle project | 19:06 |
| joerg | so it is not possible at present? | 19:06 |
| nubae | so its real high quality | 19:06 |
| nubae | I do not know | 19:07 |
| joerg | you wrote docs about it but you don't know? :) | 19:07 |
| nubae | I write a LOT of docs | 19:07 |
| joerg | hmm | 19:07 |
| nubae | I cant be expectd to remmeber every detail about every doc | 19:07 |
| nubae | for instance I wrote a large part of the ltsp manual | 19:08 |
| nubae | it doesnt mean I know everything about LTSP | 19:08 |
| nubae | far from it... | 19:08 |
| nubae | but it does integrate with webdav | 19:09 |
| nubae | mahara and moole | 19:09 |
| nubae | moodle | 19:09 |
| nubae | so in a way yes mounting windows is possible | 19:09 |
| joerg | I cannot find anything about how I can mount my "my files" as webdav. | 19:09 |
| nubae | welll, I'd help u look, but I'm sure google will help u faster | 19:10 |
| nubae | search webdav moodle | 19:10 |
| joerg | I am not looking at moodle | 19:10 |
| joerg | I am talking about mahara | 19:10 |
| nubae | if nothing comes up I'll give u 100 dollars | 19:10 |
| joerg | the my files part of mahara | 19:10 |
| joerg | a personal home directory | 19:11 |
| nubae | mahara ties into moodle 100 percent | 19:11 |
| nubae | so whatever is possible with moodle is possible with mahara | 19:11 |
| joerg | I dont see any moodle | 19:12 |
| nubae | look.... if u really want to see what it does and how it integrates, do what I said, follow the instructions on installing the 2 and integrating | 19:12 |
| nubae | it'll take u half an hour at most | 19:12 |
| nubae | u dont see any moodle what? | 19:12 |
| nubae | ok,found the other progrma Italc | 19:14 |
| joerg | I have a demo account at mahara.org | 19:14 |
| nubae | if u havent seen that, take a look | 19:14 |
| nubae | that is REALLY impressive | 19:14 |
| nubae | and does the lockdown stuff u were talking about with you tube | 19:14 |
| joerg | I know it | 19:15 |
| joerg | and it has absolutely nothing to do with proxy filters | 19:15 |
| nubae | I never mentioned and u never mentioned proxy filters | 19:15 |
| joerg | I said allowing and denying internet access | 19:15 |
| nubae | u said blocking youtube on a remte machine | 19:16 |
| joerg | which has to do with proxies and firewalls | 19:16 |
| joerg | and not with teachers playing big brother | 19:16 |
| nubae | heh... thats not what I would call I talc,but never mind | 19:16 |
| joerg | yes, that is proxy filtering / blacklisting of certain sites | 19:16 |
| joerg | because they contain P0RN or whatever :P | 19:16 |
| joerg | or the solution of the current task :) | 19:17 |
| nubae | for what u are mentioning dansguardian is the defalto standard | 19:17 |
| nubae | along with squid | 19:17 |
| joerg | ok and where's the web frontend? | 19:17 |
| nubae | why anyone else would use something different is beyong me | 19:17 |
| joerg | where the teacher can add a url? | 19:17 |
| nubae | therer are lots | 19:17 |
| nubae | I use webmin | 19:17 |
| joerg | or domain? to be blocked for the next 34 minutes? | 19:17 |
| joerg | and webmin does time based proxy filtering? | 19:18 |
| nubae | and dansguardian has a great little gui | 19:18 |
| nubae | dansguardian does | 19:18 |
| nubae | also there is ufw | 19:18 |
| nubae | which has a great gui | 19:19 |
| nubae | look im not attacking your product | 19:19 |
| nubae | think itlooks wonderfuk | 19:19 |
| nubae | wonderful | 19:19 |
| joerg | give me a link :P | 19:19 |
| nubae | but almost everything we can think of has already been done some place | 19:20 |
| joerg | for a web based gui | 19:20 |
| joerg | where a teacher can login with his ldap account | 19:20 |
| nubae | for what dansguardian? | 19:20 |
| nubae | actaully | 19:20 |
| joerg | and select: room 211 -> computer 1 -> block youtube for 23 minutes | 19:20 |
| nubae | i'll give u one better | 19:20 |
| nubae | hang on | 19:20 |
| joerg | we have dansguardian | 19:20 |
| nubae | cause we used this at guadalinex-edu | 19:20 |
| nubae | i used to work there | 19:21 |
| joerg | if it allows teachers to block things forever, forget it :) | 19:21 |
| joerg | we are not talking about cool web based firewall tools. | 19:21 |
| joerg | we are talking about a gui for very stupid people | 19:21 |
| alkisg | How does the blocking work? The teacher has root access to all the client PCs and inserts some iptable rules? | 19:22 |
| joerg | who will block internet access on all machines | 19:22 |
| alkisg | Or with squid and inetd? | 19:22 |
| joerg | and go away having forgotten about it | 19:22 |
| nubae | https://launchpad.net/webcontentcontrol | 19:22 |
| joerg | next person comes, nothing works. | 19:22 |
| nubae | eat your heart out | 19:22 |
| joerg | in our setup? | 19:22 |
| joerg | teachers logs in to myserv | 19:22 |
| joerg | selectes a room | 19:22 |
| joerg | selects some hosts | 19:22 |
| joerg | or all hosts. | 19:22 |
| joerg | tells the number of minutes | 19:23 |
| nubae | joerg check out that link | 19:23 |
| nubae | and install | 19:23 |
| joerg | and says "block" or "unblock" | 19:23 |
| alkisg | Not the GUI, the backend, how does it work technically? | 19:23 |
| nubae | there is nothing better out there i guarantee it | 19:23 |
| joerg | alkisg, that depends....it only executes a command. | 19:24 |
| alkisg | With root privileges? | 19:24 |
| alkisg | I.e. does each teacher have root privileges to all PCs? | 19:24 |
| joerg | alkisg, what we are doing at the moment: add it to a text file with ips that are blocked by squidguard | 19:24 |
| joerg | and add an ip tables rule to block forwarding for that host | 19:24 |
| nubae | alkisg. http://demo.myserv-project.org | 19:24 |
| joerg | alkisg, the teacher logs into a web gui, the gateway/proxy. | 19:24 |
| alkisg | Is there anything that prevents the clients from not using that proxy? | 19:25 |
| joerg | alkisg, and that web app has sudo rights on a script that blocks/allows | 19:25 |
| joerg | if you only use the proxy to block it... | 19:25 |
| joerg | ...you don't need sudo/root | 19:25 |
| joerg | alkisg, yes | 19:25 |
| joerg | you either use it or you don't have internet access | 19:26 |
| nubae | joerg did u check out webcontentcontrol? | 19:26 |
| joerg | unless you bring your own 3G device or so :) | 19:26 |
| alkisg | joerg: so it won't work on all schools - only specially configured schools, right? | 19:26 |
| joerg | no, I cannot explain things to him and check out sth at the same time :P | 19:26 |
| joerg | alkisg, hmm? | 19:26 |
| joerg | if you want internet | 19:27 |
| alkisg | I.e. I can't use my router as the gateway, I need to use a special server for a gateway | 19:27 |
| joerg | you need to have a gateway/proxy | 19:27 |
| joerg | which usually runs on linux | 19:27 |
| alkisg | So in order to use your program in my school, I'd need a specially configured server, right? | 19:27 |
| joerg | yes sure.... | 19:27 |
| joerg | you need users/groups etc. | 19:27 |
| joerg | or find a way how the server can tell your router what to do :P | 19:28 |
| alkisg | Can you block access by user? | 19:28 |
| alkisg | Or only by PC? | 19:28 |
| alkisg | E.g. will it work in ltsp environments, where all users are essentically on the server? | 19:28 |
| joerg | nubae, forget it :P | 19:29 |
| joerg | sorry to say it | 19:29 |
| joerg | but the interface is overkill | 19:29 |
| joerg | tinyproxy on? dansguardian on? | 19:29 |
| joerg | teachers will already give up here because they dont know what that is. | 19:29 |
| nubae | joerg, perhaps, but it does what u said, and way more | 19:30 |
| joerg | apart from that, it cannot manage multiple hosts/rooms/ips/mac adresses | 19:30 |
| joerg | seems to be for parents blocking certain stuff on a single machine | 19:30 |
| nubae | I'm just syaing... there is nothing out there that hasnt already been done | 19:30 |
| alkisg | The only way I found to block internet access by user, was to use squid with inetd. | 19:30 |
| joerg | nubae, this is NOT doing what I said | 19:30 |
| nubae | if yours looks nicer and works simpler kudos | 19:30 |
| joerg | it is NOT web based | 19:30 |
| joerg | it does not authenticate me and check if I am a teacher | 19:31 |
| joerg | it does not show me rooms/hosts I have at my school | 19:31 |
| nubae | then search dansguardian and gui | 19:31 |
| nubae | u'll find lots | 19:31 |
| nubae | ubuntu christian editinon has it installed by default | 19:31 |
| joerg | lool | 19:32 |
| joerg | alkisg, inetd? | 19:32 |
| alkisg | joerg: yes, it is used to tell squid which user is requesting the page | 19:32 |
| joerg | you mean identd? | 19:32 |
| alkisg | Otherwise user-based filtering doesn't work | 19:32 |
| alkisg | Yes, sorry | 19:32 |
| alkisg | identd. | 19:32 |
| nubae | joerg, actually... guadalinex-edu just developed something like that, based on avahi... | 19:33 |
| joerg | if you trust your machines | 19:33 |
| nubae | wrks great | 19:33 |
| joerg | I'd use squid + ldap | 19:33 |
| joerg | and proxy auth | 19:33 |
| nubae | lets u control every room in a school and every app | 19:33 |
| nubae | does single sign on | 19:33 |
| alkisg | joerg: so the students would have to authenticate to the proxy to access the internet? | 19:33 |
| joerg | yes | 19:33 |
| alkisg | Can that be automated for younger students? | 19:34 |
| nubae | but dont think thye released it yet.... or maybe they did... it had a funny name | 19:34 |
| joerg | nubae, are you a teacher? | 19:34 |
| joerg | have you really dealt with everyday problems at a school for years? | 19:34 |
| nubae | joerg, anyway, would u like me to doa write up of your product or not | 19:34 |
| nubae | actually I am a teacher | 19:35 |
| nubae | though a dev too | 19:35 |
| joerg | you are serving me a new name of some "cool app" every 2 minutes here | 19:35 |
| joerg | and there's instead of mahara nothing that you could ever use in a school | 19:35 |
| nubae | joerg yes I have | 19:35 |
| joerg | because all of it is for ADMINs | 19:35 |
| joerg | and cannot be used by ppl without technical skills | 19:35 |
| nubae | I disagree, but hye | 19:36 |
| joerg | did you ever confront a teacher for latin and religion with webmin? | 19:36 |
| nubae | 40% off British schools use moodle | 19:36 |
| nubae | and many use mahara as a plugin | 19:36 |
| nubae | its the most widely used (by TEACHERS) app in the world | 19:36 |
| joerg | and how many percent of british teachers are able to configure dansguardian through one of your proposed guis? | 19:37 |
| joerg | and how many of them are able to use webmin? | 19:37 |
| joerg | sorry, but they call us and ask if we know where the enter key is :) | 19:37 |
| nubae | well, the ones I've trained have had no problems... but usually itis NOT a teacher that run webmin or dansguardian | 19:38 |
| joerg | or why they can't upload a 200mb file through their dialup | 19:38 |
| nubae | why would they? | 19:38 |
| joerg | because they are writing an exam in the room | 19:38 |
| joerg | and don't want that the students can access the web in the next 45 minutes | 19:38 |
| nubae | joerg, to be honest.. I'm much more interested in teaching with real simple tools to young kids (4-9) | 19:39 |
| nubae | I use sugar for that | 19:39 |
| joerg | yeah, I know it. | 19:39 |
| joerg | for the primary schools we don't need all that stuff | 19:39 |
| joerg | but for a 17 yo highschool teenie, things are different | 19:39 |
| nubae | well, thats what I'm currently really using.... and focusign on | 19:39 |
| joerg | yeah | 19:40 |
| joerg | or e.g. in my high school youtube.com is blocked | 19:40 |
| joerg | because they have a very slow dsl line | 19:40 |
| nubae | but I have a blog, and I do write ups on interesting school products | 19:40 |
| joerg | and if it is not blocked, the traffic is so much that other's cant really work anymore. | 19:40 |
| nubae | would u like me to write up something on myserv, yes or no? | 19:40 |
| joerg | but for certain projects, e.g. a video project, teachers want youtube. | 19:41 |
| nubae | I dont really want to waste any more time on this | 19:41 |
| joerg | so they should have a way to whitelist youtube for the particular room for e.g. 45 minutes | 19:41 |
| joerg | becuase if it is not timed, they will forget to lock it | 19:41 |
| joerg | and it will stay whitelisted forever | 19:41 |
| joerg | nubae, no | 19:42 |
| nubae | okm :-) | 19:42 |
| joerg | nubae, I don't think anybody who says that he doesn't want to "waste time" on my project could write anything objective about it. | 19:42 |
| joerg | you are just giving me names of software that you probably never really used. | 19:42 |
| joerg | to give me the feeling that I am so stupid and develop things that are already there. | 19:43 |
| joerg | what do you want to write if you don't even want to understand what it is about? | 19:43 |
| nubae | I didnt say that | 19:43 |
| joerg | and why all your webmin and technical admin stuff is not the solution for an arts teachers that wants to allow youtube for his video project | 19:44 |
| nubae | I said I dont want to waste any more time arguing about what we'vee been arguiing about | 19:44 |
| nubae | but thre are many projects out there | 19:44 |
| joerg | yes, and that means you don't want to waste time on understanding why I believe that this solution is new and unique. | 19:45 |
| nubae | so if u dont want attention on yours, and from what u've read, u'll see I'm always impartial, thats your perogative | 19:45 |
| joerg | I just don't want anybody to write about a project that he doesn't know in detail | 19:45 |
| joerg | write about sugar or whatever stuff you have experience with. | 19:46 |
| nubae | I told u I would study it and then do the write up | 19:46 |
| nubae | but u are far far too defensive... | 19:46 |
| nubae | so lets just leave it at that | 19:46 |
| nubae | your loss, not mine | 19:47 |
| joerg | lol | 19:47 |
| nubae | It would be MY time I would be usin | 19:47 |
| nubae | u'd have nothing to loose | 19:47 |
| joerg | I don't need negative publicity | 19:48 |
| nubae | u obviously thnink you've created gods masterpiece... I wish u all the best... | 19:48 |
| joerg | I am trying to explain you some points | 19:48 |
| joerg | and you simply send me links and names and so on | 19:48 |
| nubae | it wouldnt have been negative at all | 19:48 |
| joerg | telling me: why myserv? look at xyz | 19:48 |
| nubae | I stated several times I thouhgt it looked excellent | 19:48 |
| joerg | and I look at xyz and think: what the HELL has it to do with the things you just said? :) | 19:49 |
| joerg | the thing is: I am trying to explain you by example why we are not using solutions that are already there. | 19:49 |
| joerg | I am talking about differences and advantages. | 19:49 |
| joerg | and you say: but xyz can do this too....and that's mostly not the case. | 19:50 |
| joerg | how do you want to write an in-depth article about myserv? | 19:50 |
| joerg | e.g. if it comes to webdav access | 19:50 |
| joerg | mounting local drives | 19:50 |
| nubae | no actually, I dont anymore | 19:50 |
| joerg | you tell me how cool mahara is | 19:50 |
| nubae | please just stop talking now | 19:51 |
| joerg | but if I ask you: is it possible to mount it as drive....you don't know it. | 19:51 |
| joerg | yes, sorry.... | 19:51 |
| joerg | but either you give me a FAIR chance or you leave it. | 19:51 |
| joerg | but I am tired of looking at x, y and z and trying to explain you why it does not do what we need. | 19:52 |
| nubae | gosh I'm just gonna leave the channel for a while, this is getting ridiculous | 19:52 |
| joerg | lol | 19:52 |
| joerg | :( | 19:56 |
| joerg | maybe I should stop developing open source software | 19:56 |
| joerg | if the only feedback I get is that my work is senseless :( | 19:56 |
| joerg | alkisg, sorry | 20:02 |
| alkisg | np, you guys really shouldn't be fighting for open source software. Anyway I gotta do some work, bbl. | 20:03 |
| joerg | no | 20:03 |
| joerg | but do you know how that feeling is? | 20:03 |
| joerg | you have a project, you believe in the ideas | 20:03 |
| joerg | and somebody is asking you what the advantages and concepts are | 20:04 |
| joerg | you explain an advantage, the other person says: abcd can do it as well. | 20:04 |
| joerg | you have a quick look at abcd's web page and it cannot do it. | 20:04 |
| joerg | I can better go and make proprietary stuff and make money with it | 20:05 |
| joerg | instead of doing idealistic stuff for people who don't they thank you or anything positive. | 20:05 |
| joerg | and no, I am NOT gonna announce it on the mailinglist anymore. | 20:09 |
| joerg | bye | 20:21 |
| LedHed | When using LTSP, I want a client to execute a script that requires a name be set. I wanted to use the devices hostname, but when I use `hostname` in my script I get the servers hostname. How can I get the hostname from the client via script? | 22:50 |
| alkisg | $LTSP_CLIENT_HOSTNAME | 22:52 |
| LedHed | alkisg, thank you! | 22:52 |
| alkisg | np | 22:52 |
| LedHed | alkisg, can I set the client hostname via DHCP? | 23:03 |
| alkisg | LedHed: In karmic+, yes | 23:05 |
| alkisg | You can also set it from lts.conf | 23:05 |
| LedHed | alkisg, I'm using Lucid, | 23:05 |
| LedHed | How do I config ltsp clients to grab the hostname via DHCP? is it an option in lts.conf? | 23:06 |
| alkisg | No, if you want to set it by dhcp, that's done from /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf | 23:07 |
| alkisg | You can also set it from lts.conf, but that isn't dhcp anymore. It has the same effect, though | 23:08 |
| alkisg | [ma:ca:dr:es:s] | 23:08 |
| alkisg | HOSTNAME=xxx | 23:08 |
| alkisg | For dhcpd.conf you'd need to google it, it's easy but I don't use dhcpd.conf so I can't have an example handy | 23:08 |
| LedHed | alkisg, ok. I'm already setting the hostname via DHCP Reservation. | 23:08 |
| LedHed | the clients just dont seem to be getting it. | 23:09 |
| LedHed | Its a Windows DHCP server | 23:09 |
| alkisg | Hmmm ok then do some debugging: | 23:09 |
| LedHed | I will. Thanks for the help | 23:09 |
| alkisg | replace "quiet splash" with "break=init" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default | 23:09 |
| alkisg | Then boot a client | 23:09 |
| alkisg | You'll get a busybox shell | 23:10 |
| alkisg | In that shell, type: cat /etc/net-eth0.conf | 23:10 |
| alkisg | And see if it got the hostname. | 23:10 |
| LedHed | ok, thanks. I would never have thought of doing that | 23:10 |
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