/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/25/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

RAOFGood morninginging00:00
TheMusoMorning RAOF, hey rickspencer3.00:01
rickspencer3hi TheMuso00:02
rickspencer3happy Tuesday00:02
RAOFMorning TheMuso00:02
desrttuesday?00:16
desrtwhat strange alternate universe is this?00:16
rickspencer3desrt, they live in Sydney00:16
rickspencer3they are from the future00:16
RAOFWell, and Hobart.00:16
desrttime, down under00:17
rickspencer3RAOF, you know Hobart is a manufacturer of industrial dishwashers, right?00:17
TheMuso"I remember the future, like it was only yesterday."00:17
RAOFrickspencer3: No?  What dishwashers?00:18
rickspencer3http://www.google.com/products?q=hobart+dishwashers&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Jwn7S47TMML98AbGvInHCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQrQQwAw00:18
rickspencer3for restaurants and cafeterias and stuff00:18
* rickspencer3 notes that RAOF never had a crap job in food service00:18
RAOFWow.  The things you learn :)00:19
lifeless8K new00:19
lifelesswowsers00:19
desrtlifeless: hem?00:19
lifelessdesrt: the first item in ricks link00:20
lifelessa dishwasher00:20
desrtoh.  i thought you meant "8000 new instances of [something]"00:20
lifelessmind you00:21
lifelessI want one of these: http://www.dexigner.com/product/news-g3239.html00:21
lifelessbetter link - http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/default.asp00:21
desrtuses co2 gas?00:23
lifelessliquid00:23
desrtmakes more sense :)00:23
lifelessroom temp pressurises Co200:23
lifelesshttp://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/beneath.asp00:23
lifelesss/s /d /00:23
desrtfascinating00:25
lifelesshttp://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/interface.asp is pretty cool00:25
lifelessand a real eye opener about UI00:25
RAOFYeah.00:26
desrtlifeless: pretty weird interface there00:27
desrti'd suspect a pair of buttons would be more intuitive00:28
lifelessyou'd need several buttons though00:28
desrtalso: less pointlessly expensive00:28
desrtopen/close and "wash now"00:28
lifelessopen/close/start per side no ?00:28
RAOFPointlessly expensive?  It's a supercritical CO₂ dishwasher!00:28
desrtlifeless: as it is, you need a rock per side00:29
lifeless15$ in parts for a couple of magnets and logic vs a pressurised co2 containment system and seperator ?00:29
lifelessI'll pay it:>00:29
desrtlifeless: 15$ added to the cost of each unit in a mass-produced item is a no-go :p00:30
lifelessI disagree00:30
lifelessyou have to talk % not absolute costs00:30
desrttrue00:30
desrtbut i imagine the co2 tech will get a lot cheaper00:30
lifelessdishwashers today are ~ 2K for standalone units00:31
lifeless15 dollars there is still < 2%00:31
lifelessthere is 10 times that variance across models already.00:31
lifelessmore than even00:31
desrtanyway... the cost was not my main point00:31
desrtmy entire point was "less intuitive -and- costs more, to boot"00:32
bryceherf, allhands.canonical.com is really irritating me00:33
brycehConversion Error00:33
bryceh"HR0F08F0CC-C17F-463C-8D7C-3B3412F8ABFD_ZY3NDOMS0SALAsessment_1541_6": Error during model data update.00:33
desrtseems like a neat gimick, that's all00:33
zachtibHi, I asked this in #ayatana also, but I was wondering if someone in here might know... I want to bundle a light and dark tray icon with my app to match the new Lucid look and feel, but I'm wondering where exactly to put them so that appindicator picks them up00:34
lifelessdesrt: I think you learn how to use it by fiddling with greater ease than my dishwasher00:35
* ccheney made it to the hotel :)00:35
desrtlifeless: my initial reaction would be "what idiot put this rock on the dishwasher?" :p00:37
lifelesswell, assume you don't know its a dishwasher00:37
lifelessbecause I doubt you would, its just a tray, with a rock, under some glass00:38
desrtbtw: add moving glass shield and motion/proximity sensor to your cost estimation :p00:38
lifelessI suspect the shield is part of the containment system00:38
lifelesscould be wrong00:38
desrti suspect it's a "we don't let you move the rock if it would put the system into an inconsistent state" system00:39
desrtseems like the system could be sealed by the main door that covers the plates00:39
lifelessah that too00:39
JanCzachtib: somewhere in a subfolder of ubuntu-mono-light & ubuntu-mono-dark I suppose00:41
zachtibJanC: that's where I have them, but appindicator isn't picking them up00:42
zachtib/usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/apps/22/lookit.svg and i've given the indicator the icon name "lookit"00:45
zachtibit picks up an icon if I throw it into /usr/share/pixmaps00:45
zachtibbut that won't let me conform to the theme00:45
RAOFzachtib: I'd guess that you'd need to re-run the icon theme cache generator.  This doesn't sound like the right approach, though, as it's specific to these icon themes.00:56
zachtibi did run gtk-update-icon-cache00:56
TheMusoc01:16
rickspencer3RAOF, if we hold back 3d support for intel 8xx chipsets, we use Vesa for those chips?01:17
RAOFrickspencer3: Correct.01:18
rickspencer3wow, the burndown chart page makes is really easy to be transparent with our plans01:20
brycehrickspencer3, howso?01:30
rickspencer3bryceh, well ... I'm working on my normal "this is what we decided at UDS" blog post01:30
rickspencer3and using http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/ ...01:31
rickspencer3I can pretty much see everything01:31
rickspencer3and these are totally public pages01:31
rickspencer3so users can just look at the individual work items we have assigned ourselves01:31
brycehah cool01:31
rickspencer3I wonder how many other projects work with this degree of transparency?01:31
rickspencer3I think Eclipse might01:32
rickspencer3there is also this, of course: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule01:33
rickspencer3the combination is potent from a planning and tracking pov01:33
rickspencer3dinner time01:35
TheMusoDoes anybody know off hand what is responsible for multimedia key press handling?02:10
RAOFTheMuso: My understanding is: the kernel should be translating them to recognisable keycodes, then gnome-settings-daemon dispatches them to whatever multimedia app has registered for notifications.02:16
mclasenwith some X in between02:16
TheMusoRAOF: Right, its the gnome-settings-daemon bit I was wondering about, thanks.02:16
RAOFmclasen: Always.  :)02:17
mclasenin this case a bit of bottleneck, keycode-wise02:17
ScottLhello all, the ubuntu studio devs were wondering if removing a patch for network-admin would present a regression for vanilla desktop users03:05
ScottLbug #57082803:05
ubot2Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57082803:05
ScottLi don't think that network-admin is installed by default for a desktop installation, so i didn't think this would really present a regression03:05
robert_ancelldesrt, are you making more work for me? :)04:21
desrtrobert_ancell: yes :)04:21
desrtrobert_ancell: dconf release coming in a few minutes04:21
desrtrobert_ancell: i have the beginning of a dconf client API too04:22
desrtso you could theoretically start working on the editor04:22
desrt*lots* of new work :)04:22
robert_ancelldesrt, also, I didn't realise you already had packages for dconf - is there any reason why I shouldn't just take those into universe?04:22
desrti dont' have packages for dconf04:22
desrtthe ones in my PPA are hilariously ancient04:22
desrti should delete them, actually04:22
desrtbtw: probably time for a MIR04:23
robert_ancelldesrt, universe first :)04:23
desrtok.  GSettings PPA is history04:24
robert_ancelldesrt, I think I'll stick with the names you used for now - we can change the source package name in the future if required04:24
desrtdesrtconf? :D04:24
robert_ancelllibdconf.  So now we know what the d stands for04:25
desrtrobert_ancell: you didn't already know? :p04:25
desrtanyway.  fine with me.04:25
desrtthere was another issue, though: dconf tries to install /usr/bin/dconf04:26
robert_ancellsigh, glib takes so long to build... It hung on a unittest for .6, hoping this one works better04:26
desrtya.  there's a gtester bug that leads to periodic hangs04:26
robert_ancelldesrt, what has to execute /usr/bin/dconf?04:26
desrtthe testcase terminates but the tester framework fails to notice the SIGCHLD04:26
desrtrobert_ancell: humans04:26
robert_ancelldesrt, is that fixed?04:26
desrtrobert_ancell: no.  long-standing difficult bug04:27
robert_ancelldesrt, so it's just random?04:27
desrtit's a race04:27
desrtit bites me sometimes during releases04:27
desrtthen i swear04:27
robert_ancellok, feeling lucky this time04:27
desrt'make distcheck' takes longer than your normal build-from-tarball :p04:27
desrtand i have to start allll over again04:27
robert_ancellhumans don't execute dconf right?04:27
desrtwell04:27
desrthumans as in me and you, or humans as in "Linux for Human Beings"?04:28
desrtyou and i will definitely want to execute /usr/bin/dconf from time to time.  it's the gconf-tool equivalent04:28
robert_ancellit gets run by libdconf on demand right?  Or gnome-session?04:28
robert_ancellok, so it can handle a name changing for now then04:28
desrtah.  that's /usr/libexec/dconf-service04:28
desrtor /usr/lib/dconf/dconf-service in the debian world, i guess04:28
desrtare you packaging now?04:29
robert_ancellI did some yesterday, waiting to get the updated glib working before I propose it04:31
robert_ancelland when I've installed it I'll try the API out04:31
desrtk.  just wanted to say that you should not package dconf 0.304:32
desrt0.3.1 will be out very soon04:32
robert_ancellok04:33
robert_ancellmaverick is unstable anyway :)04:33
desrt0.3 won't even build anymore :p04:34
desrti broke glib API today, times two04:34
desrtboth of them breaking dconf 0.304:34
TheMusoSo what is dconf compared to gsettings?04:35
robert_ancelldesrt, that's why there's no MIR yet :)04:36
desrtok.  dconf 0.3.1 is now released in the usual places04:37
robert_ancellTheMuso, dconf=backend, gsettings=api04:38
robert_ancelldesrt, is anyone working on an LDAP backend?  I think that was one of the criticisms of gconf right?04:39
desrtrobert_ancell: no.04:42
desrtrobert_ancell: but rodrigo is planning an ubuntu1/couchdb backend04:43
desrtreminds me -- i promised him a plugin API in dconf-service04:43
desrthmmm04:43
robert_ancellTheMuso, can you add something here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication ? Paperwork says I need 3-5 endorsements.04:43
desrtThings I could do better04:44
desrtFilling out Ubuntu paperwork earlier (e.g. Core Dev applications)04:44
desrthmm.  i think i'll be doing the sleeping thing now04:47
desrtrobert_ancell: best of luck.  let me know if you hit any problems, of course04:47
robert_ancelldesrt, thanks, see you later04:47
desrtgood night (morning?)04:47
robert_ancell2pm04:47
* desrt pads off04:47
TheMusorobert_ancell: woops it slipped off the radar, will take care of that in a bit.04:52
robert_ancellTheMuso, also, can you sponsor gucharmap from bzr?05:02
robert_ancellpitti, ^^^ should gucharmap be in the desktop set?05:02
robert_ancellpitti, actually I should be bugging seb128 for these things now05:03
TheMusorobert_ancell: sure05:05
robert_ancellTheMuso, oh and I'm about to ask you to sponsor glib in a minute too :)05:05
TheMusorobert_ancell: no problem05:10
TheMusorobert_ancell: uploading gucharmap05:27
robert_ancellTheMuso, sweet05:27
TheMusorobert_ancell: let me know when you want me to look at glib05:36
TheMusoc05:36
robert_ancellit's rebuilding yet again, failed at the final step (missing symbols from .symbols file)05:37
TheMusoah ok05:38
robert_ancellTheMuso, gconf too?05:48
TheMusosure05:48
TheMusoJust let me know when they are ready.05:50
robert_ancellTheMuso, both ready06:05
TheMusorobert_ancell: ok will do them right away.06:05
waltercoola question... using dvd version of Ubuntu... can i make a new Xubuntu/Ubuntu/Kubuntu installation? Or is just Ubuntu with more packages on dvd?06:25
waltercooloh sorry... wrong place :/06:26
waltercoolwas just a xchat problem06:26
TheMusoyay long glib test runs. :_06:31
* TheMuso does gconf while waiting for glib...06:56
TheMusorobert_ancell: gconf FTBF son i3786 for me07:08
TheMusoi386 even07:08
TheMusorobert_ancell: and amd64. I'll update my chroot to see if that helps any.07:14
robert_ancellTheMuso, ok, looking here07:18
robert_ancellTheMuso, it just built for me on my Maverick box (i386)07:30
TheMusoHrm.07:31
TheMusoWell I updated my amd64 chroot. Thats weird, I'll try again.07:31
RAOFDamn you, sbuild?  Why are you failing, and leaving zombie mounts around after you?07:31
TheMusoRAOF: you running amverick on bare metal?07:32
TheMusomaverick07:32
RAOFAh.  This is the problem?07:32
robert_ancellTheMuso, on my test box07:32
robert_ancellbut thinking about migrating my main box as then I can compile faster07:33
TheMusorobert_ancell: right. I'll pastebin the error if it happens again.07:33
TheMusook glib uploading.07:33
robert_ancellI had trouble getting my Maverick pbuilder to work in Lucid, gave up and just use the test box07:33
robert_ancellRAOF, I hear your frustration :)07:35
RAOFFortunately, pbuilder exists, and works.07:37
RAOFJust slightly less nice.07:38
TheMusorobert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/439226/07:41
TheMusorobert_ancell: the above is the gconf FTBFs.07:49
pittiGood morning08:02
pittirobert_ancell: gucharmap> is it not?08:02
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
didrocksgood morning08:04
pittihey didrocks08:05
didrockshey pitti, how was your week-end?08:05
pittinice and long; lots of fresh air :)08:05
pittihow was you'rs?08:05
pittiyour's08:05
didrockspitti: nice too, a lot of walk in Paris :)08:06
robert_ancellpitti, no, it's in main08:11
pittirobert_ancell: but it's already installed by default08:13
pittirobert_ancell: and ubuntu-desktop pulls it in08:13
robert_ancellpitti, I think it needs to be added to the ubuntu-desktop whitelist08:15
pittirobert_ancell: oh, you mean for team upload, not seed08:15
robert_ancellyeah08:15
pittirobert_ancell: probably some other desktop uses it as well08:15
pittirobert_ancell: can you please ping cjwatson about it?08:16
robert_ancellthanks, couldn't remember who was doing it08:16
TheMusoxubuntu uses it as well as studio.08:16
TheMusoand ubuntu netbook08:16
TheMusoat least in lucid.08:17
TheMusorobert_ancell: were you building gconf in a chroot at all? Without having delved deeper, I still don't know why I gt an FTBFs as above.08:22
robert_ancellTheMuso, I've uploaded it to a PPA to see what happens there08:23
TheMusorobert_ancell: ok08:23
glatzorhello mvo08:35
mvohey glatzor!08:35
robert_ancellTheMuso, fixed gconf, can you try again?08:40
didrocksgood morning glatzor, mvo (and robert_ancell ;))08:41
seb128hey didrocks robert_ancell08:41
robert_ancellhello08:41
mvohey didrocks and robert_ancell and seb12808:41
pittibonjour seb128, guten Morgen mvo08:41
pittiurgh, I didn't mean to scare you08:42
mvohey pitti08:42
mvoheh :)08:42
didrocksgood morning seb12808:42
seb128wrong click08:42
pittibonjour seb12808:42
seb128hey mvo pitti08:42
glatzorhello didrocks08:43
didrocksmvo: FYI, I have pushed this week-end a new version of oneconf-query using an undocumented desktopcouch function (batch_update) which help for first update (from more than 1min to less than 1s)08:43
seb128getting coffee, back in a bit08:43
mvodidrocks: sweet08:45
mvodidrocks: that is great news08:45
didrocksmvo: yes ;) I'll finish later today the metapackage handling and I think it's done for the CLI part. Will add the dbus backend this week, I hope08:45
mvook08:47
mvoI'm doing a mini sprint this week with arne to improve language-selector08:47
mvoso I won't have much time (unfortunately) for it08:47
didrocksmvo: no pb. I have no blocker right now :)08:48
didrocksmvo: enjoy your mini sprint!08:48
mvoit starts tomorrow :)08:48
mvo(mini-mini :)08:48
seb128reboot brb08:50
didrocksheh :)08:51
mvochrisccoulson: hey! if you have a moment, can you help me with a NM releated question?09:17
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone09:53
chrisccoulsonhey mvo09:54
mvohey chrisccoulson09:54
seb128hey chrisccoulson, how are you?09:56
didrocksgood morning chrisccoulson09:56
chrisccoulsonhey seb128, i'm good thanks. did you enjoy your long weekend?09:56
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks, how are you too?09:56
didrockschrisccoulson: I'm fine after a good week-end :)09:57
seb128yes, very nice weather and relaxing weekend09:57
chrisccoulsonyou had nice weather too? it was quite hot here at the weekend09:58
seb128yes, summer weather09:59
chrisccoulsonwe had 2 whole days of summer weather at the weekend, which probably means that summer is finished for us until next year ;)10:00
seb128lol10:00
huatsmorning10:20
pittichrisccoulson: good morning, how are you?10:41
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you?10:41
pittiI'm great, thanks10:41
ftabratsche, (in case you missed it yesterday) the c-s-d patch in gtk also breaks acroread in the partner's repo10:54
seb128fta, he's sleeping10:54
seb128it's middle of night for him now10:55
ftaoh, which TZ?10:55
seb128Dallas10:55
ftaok, thanks10:55
seb128fta, is anybody still using jaunty?11:39
ftaseb128, why?11:39
seb128fta, you are blocking a ppa builder for hours building chromium dailies for jaunty11:39
seb128I think we could make better use of that ppa builder ;-)11:40
seb128ie I'm waiting for some builds for an hours and looked at what was blocking builds11:40
ftaseb128, (i often get user requests for mozilla & chromium from jaunty users)11:40
seb128users are weird ;-)11:40
seb128why would anybody stay on jaunty11:40
ftaseb128, well, chromium starts at 4am, but today, it ftbfsed and i fixed it this morning11:42
seb128ok11:42
seb128I've nothing against those daily build11:42
seb128it just seems the jaunty build is wasting cycles for almost nothing though11:42
ftaseb128, iirc, lp shouldn't give me all the resources. something else is blocking too11:42
seb128I doubt many users are staying on an one year old non lts version11:42
seb128right it doesn't give you all the ressources but half of it11:43
ftai'm sill waiting for the ppa stats to see how many users each dist still has11:43
seb128which means the other stack of build is taking double time ;-)11:43
seb128anyway I don't want to argue11:43
seb128I just doubt there is many people still running jaunty11:44
seb128it wasn't our best version, it's one year old and it's not a lts11:44
seb128so it seems costy in build time for a few users only11:44
ftaif i stop running the testsuite, i could shrink the build time from 2h to ~30m11:46
seb128if you think you have users on jaunty don't bother about my comment11:47
seb128I though it was a leftover11:47
seb128I'm just surprised that anybody still rely on it11:47
ftawell, i really have no idea, i just see the users complains i get in my mbox when the builds fail for more than a few days11:48
seb128ups11:48
ftai need to check the status of bug 13985511:48
ubot2Launchpad bug 139855 in soyuz (and 2 other projects) "Display stats about PPA usage (affects: 19) (dups: 1) (heat: 156)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13985511:48
seb128well you will see 3 jaunty user complaining I guess11:48
seb128where you might creating issue for some thousand users waiting on builds for versions actually used ;-)11:49
seb128ie lucid or maverick11:49
ftamost of the time, noone complains. when there's a mass-rebuild, i usually stop all my dailies until it clears out11:51
seb128ok11:51
seb128other users probably just wait the hour without complaining about the useless jaunty builds blocking a builder ;-)11:52
seb128anyway lunch time11:52
seb128bbl11:52
Laneyso I uploaded f-spot 0.6.2 yesterday. What should happen with the SRU?11:54
seb128Laney, hey12:28
seb128Laney, somebody should work on it? ;-)12:28
seb128Laney, we need to lower changes for the sru so we can't use the maverick version, we want to update the lucid one without packaging changes12:29
seb128there is quite some changes there for a stable update though it seems12:29
seb128mvo, update-notifier displays a notification area icon again in maverick it seems12:46
mvoseb128: oh? I did not upload it, maybe it got synced via debian?12:46
seb128mvo, indeed it did12:46
mvoseb128: I check it out12:47
seb128"  * Show the tray icon instead of running update-manager (Closes: #578717),"12:48
seb128"    the update-manager mode does not even work currently due to Bug#579789."12:48
seb128mvo, ^ in the current Debian revision12:48
mvoseb128: yeah, just saw itI will upload a new version in a little bit I think12:50
mvoand see what changes debian has that are worth taking12:50
seb128mvo, no hurry I was just mentioning it because I noticed on my mini which I use as a testbox ;-)12:51
mvook :)12:52
LaneyI don't know if even just the upstream changes would be alright12:55
Laneycan someone take a look at those?12:55
seb128Laney, it seems to be quite some changes to me13:01
Laneyyes indeed13:01
seb128I guess we could either go with backporting fixes or trying to get the versions in lucid-proposed for a while13:02
Laneywhich is why I don't know if it'll go into lucid at all13:02
seb128would be nice to have pitti or somebody from the sru team to comment on it13:02
seb128do you have a simplified debdiff online somewhere?13:02
seb128ie one without autotools noise, translations, etc13:02
Laneyhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/fspot.diff13:09
Laneyit's large due to stuff like removing Mono.Addins which we never linked against anyway13:09
Laneyseb128, pitti: ^13:09
seb128Laney, can you filter that out from the debdiff too?13:10
seb128let me look at it there13:11
seb128Laney, seems too many changes for a sru in my opinion13:14
LaneyI updated the diff13:16
Laneybut yes it likely is13:16
seb128Laney, I think I would rather work by backporting fixes for some of the issues in launchpad13:18
pittiI agree, this is really intrusive13:23
rickspencer3seb128, I renamed the meeting page with the proper date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-2514:26
seb128hey rickspencer314:27
seb128good, I double checked my calender I was wondering if my computer was on the wrong day ;-)14:27
didrocksI just refreshed the page before posting and was quite surprized to see it gone :)14:29
* kenvandine should refresh :)14:30
rickspencer3oops14:33
rickspencer3hope I didn't blow away anyone's data14:33
didrockskenvandine: btw, if you do batch insert to desktopcouch, you should really consider put_records_batch14:33
didrocksrickspencer3: not for me, it was refreshing before copy and paste :)14:33
kenvandinedidrocks, did you find docs?14:33
kenvandinerickspencer3, not yet...14:33
kenvandine:)14:33
didrockskenvandine: no, but it's easy to use: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+junk/oneconf/revision/714:34
didrockskenvandine: just a list of Records14:34
didrockskenvandine: for 1700 entries it goes for more than 1min here to less than 1s :)14:34
kenvandinewoot14:35
kenvandineso it is a list of json strings?14:35
kenvandineoh14:36
kenvandinea list of CouchRecord objects14:36
didrockskenvandine: yes14:36
kenvandinesweet14:36
* kenvandine thinks there should really be docs :)14:36
seb128hey ayan14:39
seb128welcome14:39
ayanhello seb!14:39
seb128everybody, ayan has started recently in the hwe team and is going to do gtk work there14:40
seb128he doesn't have too much on his plate yet and he might be helping us for a bit14:40
seb128so he can see how Ubuntu works and get started on some gtk bugs, etc14:40
ayanhello everyone!14:41
didrockshey ayan14:45
didrocksayan: welcome to the team :)14:45
ayanhi!  thanks. :)14:45
didrocksseb128: so, gtk + compiz ? ;)14:46
seb128lol14:46
seb128didrocks, no compiz, he's not in our team ;-)14:46
seb128ayan, don't be scared, it's a desktop team tradition, new comers get to maintain compiz14:46
seb128;-)14:46
didrocksurgh, too bad for robert_ancell I guess :)14:46
seb128lol14:46
mvohey ayan, welcome14:47
seb128bratsche_, bratsche: hey14:48
mvoseb128: if you source NEW sessioninstaller you can have packagekit session goodness now14:49
seb128bratsche_, bratsche: ayan will be doing gtk work for the hwe team14:49
seb128I've pointed you as a good contact point if he has questions to get started ;-)14:49
seb128mvo, oh, nice14:49
ayanlol14:50
ayanseb128: lets start with the compiz problems i have on *my* machine.14:51
seb128;-)14:51
pittiseb128: do you know a good function to grep for to check whether/how a program properly registers to gnome-session?14:52
seb128pitti, grep smclient?14:53
seb128pitti, g_option_context_add_group (context, egg_sm_client_get_option_group ());14:54
seb128is what most GNOME softwares do14:55
pittioh, seems it's a d-bus call to org.gnome.SessionManager.RegisterClient() ?14:55
pittiseb128: cheers14:55
* pitti looked at gpm which apparently does the d-bus call manually14:55
seb128pitti, I don't know of anything using the dbus api14:55
chrisccoulsonpitti - it depends, EggSmClient has a dbus and xsmp backend14:55
pittiright, so n-l-efl doesn't seem to register to gnome-session at all, that explains why panel and friends only start after some 10 s14:56
pittichrisccoulson, seb128: thanks14:56
bratscheHi ayan14:56
ograpitti, note that there is effort to get away from gnome with the efl launcher in maverick14:57
seb128ogra, away from GNOME to what?14:57
pittiogra: *nod*14:57
ograseb128, a plain gtk container as panel replacement plus the indicators hooked into that14:57
ograDX calls it upanel14:58
seb128well I guess it depends what you call GNOME14:58
ograseb128, if i had finished writing the spec i could point you to it :)14:58
seb128do you still plan to use gdm or gnome-session?14:58
ograseb128, gdm -> most likely since we dont have any replacement, -session, not sure14:59
ogralikely the minimal one from gdm14:59
ogranot a full gnome-session14:59
* tremolux waves hello to ayan15:02
pittihey tremolux15:19
tremoluxpitti: hiya!15:20
pittitremolux: thanks for the time zone investigations; seems this bug is invalid then?15:20
tremoluxpitti: you mean based on the reply on the mailing list?  it *seems* so15:22
=== rodrigo__ is now known as rodrigo_
tremoluxpitti: seems like I can attach that reply to the bug and set everything back to "fix released", and if "Guria" comments again we can consider reopening, does that sound correct?15:26
pittitremolux: right, although I'd close it as invalid, not fixreleased15:28
pittisince we didn't actually change anything for this15:28
tremoluxpitti:  sounds good (I was only thinking fix released because the actual bug itself was fix released, before the comment and reopening)15:30
pittitremolux: ah, right, it was an old bug; right, fixreleased is appropriate then15:30
tremoluxpitti: ok, will do, thx!15:31
mvoseb128: new gtk breaks emacs in gtk made badly - known issue?15:32
seb128bratsche: ^15:33
seb128mvo, yes, there is a bug open, it's rgba15:33
seb128you can export some variable15:33
seb128it's in the bug15:33
bratschemvo: Yeah I was trying to get a stacktrace of emacs but it just exits.15:34
bratscheBut I did a quick grep through emacs source for gtk colormap related stuff and there's nothing really standing out that seems relevant. :/15:35
mvohm, is that a gnome bz or a Lp bug?15:36
mvoI want to find it to apply the workaround15:36
bratschehttps://launchpad.net/bugs/58519615:37
ubot2Launchpad bug 585196 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "emacs fails to start: X protocol error (affects: 4) (heat: 22)" [Low,New]15:37
mvothanks15:37
mvolow? not for emacs users ;)15:38
seb128mvo, I tend to not bother much about settings so early in maverick especially when you can export a variable to workaround the issue15:38
seb128;-)15:39
mvoits ok, I saw a file overwrite error set to low as well recently ;)15:39
seb128lol15:39
seb128update-manager ignore those15:39
seb128so it's low too :p15:39
mvoI see :P I should switch teams, that would dramatically reduce my bug count ;)15:40
seb128lol15:40
scott-workhello all, the ubuntu studio devs were wondering if removing a patch for network-admin would present a regression for vanilla ubuntu desktop users15:41
scott-workbug #57082815:41
ubot2Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57082815:41
scott-worki don't think that network-admin is installed by default for a desktop installation, so i didn't think this would really present a regression15:41
mvoseb128, bratsche: thanks for the workaround, I have a working emacs again \o/15:41
rickspencer3tremolux, hey, I think you told me this, but to double check:15:48
rickspencer3https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release15:48
rickspencer3has no work items for us because you are tracking them on the other software-center blueprints?15:48
chrisccoulsonseb128 - re bug 439448 - i've been running gnome-panel for a few days now with GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS, and i haven't seen any more problems yet (but i don't know if that's just a coincidence or not)15:49
ubot2Launchpad bug 439448 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "visual corruption affecting several panel applets (affects: 113) (dups: 35) (heat: 834)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43944815:49
seb128oh, gtk bug?15:49
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure. but it might be that i just haven't ran it for long enough yet15:49
chrisccoulsonhow often do you see it?15:49
seb128once a week15:49
tremoluxrickspencer3: heya, actually, there are work items at the bottom15:50
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure if you want to try the same for a week or so to see if it goes away15:50
rickspencer3oh?15:50
seb128chrisccoulson, maybe comment on the bug saying how to try that and see if some users who get the issue can try?N15:50
rickspencer3hmmm15:50
seb128chrisccoulson, maybe comment on the bug saying how to try that and see if some users who get the issue can try?15:50
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, can do15:50
seb128chrisccoulson, thanks15:50
rickspencer3tremolux, they aren't showing up here for some reason: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html15:51
seb128rickspencer3, the spec has no assignee15:52
rickspencer3aha15:52
seb128rickspencer3, so you need names on those lines or an assignee for items to be listed15:52
rickspencer3ok, I assigned it to tremolux15:53
tremoluxrickspencer3, seb128: yes, only my one work item there shows up (because I called out myself as the assignee)15:53
rickspencer3oh, I see15:53
rickspencer3the others are not on our team15:53
rickspencer3that makes total sense15:53
rickspencer3in other words, I was being a dope15:53
tremoluxrickspencer3: haha  :)15:53
rickspencer3I'm a bit concerned that the community team hasn't made progress on the policy front15:54
rickspencer3I'll ping jono about that when he gets online15:54
tremoluxrickspencer3: oh, I noticed something about https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-maverick-buy-something15:55
rickspencer3yes?15:55
tremoluxrickspencer3: yesterday I had further broken out items for alpha-2 and alpha-315:55
tremoluxbut I notice that the change I made was reverted15:55
rickspencer3hmmm15:55
tremoluxrickspencer3:  8 minutes later15:55
rickspencer3I dunno, I didn't do that, at least not on purpose15:56
tremoluxrickspencer3: it's ok, I think it was when you updated the series goal to maverick15:56
tremoluxrickspencer3: so, as long as it wasn't on purpose (which is why I am checking), I'll just change it back15:56
tremoluxrickspencer3: I think we just clobbered each other accidentally15:57
rickspencer3thanks tremolux15:57
rickspencer3sorry15:57
tremoluxrickspencer3: oh np!15:58
tremoluxrickspencer3: it's funny, it's not exactly a wiki though it tries to act like one  ;)15:58
tremoluxrickspencer3: no warning of editing, separate "body" vs. whiteboard15:59
mvokenvandine: have you seen this error here from gwibber before? http://paste.ubuntu.com/439399/16:19
kenvandinemvo, yes... fixed in trunk16:19
mvoaha, cool16:20
mvothanks16:20
kenvandinei'll get an upload done soon with that fix :)16:20
mvothanks :)16:20
desrtso is launchpad doing some creepy tracking of bugzilla/gnome-git these days?16:28
* desrt has unexpected karma16:29
Laneyyou can see where it came from by clicking on it IIRC16:30
desrtright.  just says "Revision added" lots of times16:30
desrtno further details16:30
Laneyooer, not sure what that means16:31
Laneyperhaps a vcs import from gnome git16:31
desrtya.  i just find it a bit freaky that it's smart enough to link me with my upstream self :)16:31
Laneydo you have the same email address registered?16:32
desrtnope16:32
desrtdifferent user id too16:32
* Laney backs away slowly16:32
desrtrealname is the same, but that's about it16:32
rickspencer3ArneGoetje, bryceh, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128 team meeting in 1 minute17:29
rickspencer3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-2517:29
* ArneGoetje waves17:29
chrisccoulsonand me? ;)17:30
seb128hey17:30
didrockshey o/17:30
rickspencer3hi chrisccoulson, yes and you ;)17:30
chrisccoulsonooh, i didn't do my activity report :(17:30
brycehhi rickspencer3, do you need me for the meeting?17:30
rickspencer3bryceh, meh, I was just letting you know17:30
rickspencer3probably don't need you for anything17:30
brycehah ok17:30
rickspencer3everyone ready to go?17:31
brycehjust had lp team meeting and another meeting in 30 so I'll just be a lurker here17:31
rickspencer3kenvandine, anything for partner update?17:31
Riddellhi17:31
rickspencer3tremolux, team meeting is now, btw17:31
rickspencer3I'll take that as a "no"17:32
rickspencer3Riddell, anything for a Kubuntu update?17:32
* kenvandine waves17:32
* tremolux waves too17:32
kenvandinepartner update?17:32
rickspencer3ah, now I've created resource contention17:32
kenvandine:)17:32
rickspencer3kenvandine, yeah17:32
rickspencer3are Dx and U1 done their A2 planning, for example?17:33
kenvandineno... U1 will have all their WIs added this week17:33
rickspencer3http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/ubuntuone-hackers-maverick-alpha-2.html17:33
rickspencer3http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-dx-team-maverick-alpha-2.html17:33
kenvandineDX i am more worried about, they have a bunch of blueprints that are assigned to the team and not approved17:33
kenvandinei need to talk to dbarth, but he is out again today17:33
seb128dbarth will be back tomorrow17:34
kenvandineyeah17:34
seb128which specs are you concerned about?17:34
kenvandineso we need to get that under17:34
rickspencer3dang it, I thought they were going to get these done by last Friday17:34
kenvandinewell most of the ones for dx-m- aren't approved or assigned to an individual17:34
kenvandineseb128, so i don't know which ones will end up approved17:34
seb128http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-dx-team-maverick-alpha-2.html seems to have a good summary17:34
kenvandineseb128, perhaps you know17:34
seb128well if you tell me which one you are concerned about I can tell you if I know about it ;-)17:35
kenvandineseb128, ok, after the meeting17:35
seb128ok17:35
kenvandinei just did a search for dx-m- and was alarmed that most are "unapproved" and not assigned to an individual17:35
kenvandinemaybe most of them aren't in scope...17:35
kenvandineanyway17:36
kenvandinewe need to get that nailed down17:36
rickspencer3ACTION: kenvandine to clarify with Dx what is in scope for A217:36
kenvandinegood news is that U1 will do weekly releases this cycle17:36
kenvandineprobably on tuesdays17:36
rickspencer3kewl!17:36
kenvandinestarting next week17:36
rickspencer3great job kenvandine17:36
kenvandinethere will be DX releases this thursday17:36
kenvandinethat is it for partner update17:37
rickspencer3thanks kenvandine17:37
rickspencer3Riddell, Kubuntu update?17:37
Riddell * merges mostly done17:37
Riddell * qt 4.7 in, split up slightly, arm build timing out :(17:37
Riddell * KDE SC 4.5 beta being packaged17:37
Riddell * kubuntu.org update blocked on sysadmins17:37
Riddell * https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo starting to get coloured in17:37
RiddellI added alpha 2 targets to that Todo page17:37
Riddellnot sure if a burndown chart will magically appear somewhere as a result17:37
rickspencer3ACTION: Riddell to ask pitti about creating Kubuntu burndown charts17:38
pittihm, they should be17:38
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to poke squinky about kubuntu.org17:38
rickspencer3Riddell, thanks for the update, looks like a tight turnaround for the Kubuntu team from UDS -> work started17:39
pittihttp://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/kubuntu-dev.html17:39
pittirickspencer3, Riddell ^17:39
pitti(per-milestone pages exist, too)17:39
rickspencer3son of a gun17:40
rickspencer3thanks pitti17:40
rickspencer3next on the agenda is Self and peer assessments17:40
rickspencer3so self assesments *are* due today17:40
bratscheseb128, mvo: I think I have a proper patch for the emacs23 issue on gtk.  I'm rebuilding emacs now, will test after lunch.17:40
rickspencer3but for peer assesments, you only need to invite people, not actually do them17:40
rickspencer3thanks to tremolux for catching my error there17:40
rickspencer3any questions about HR stuff?17:40
seb128bratsche: ok, good, having to fix the software is not great though, we don't have access to ie flash source17:40
Riddellbeware of timeouts on the review website17:41
tremoluxouch, yes17:41
rickspencer3heh17:41
* kenvandine got a big crash screen... but it seemed to work :)17:41
rickspencer3yeah, write your stuff in an editor, make sure it fits the ma character count17:41
bratscheseb128: Right.. I think maybe something can be done with the XEmbed code in Chromium though.  I'll talk to Evan Martin from Google if I can't figure out a way to fix it.17:41
rickspencer3and then past it in and submit17:41
bratscheseb128: Otherwise I guess we'd have to disable rgba on Chromium, which sucks and kind of defeats the purpose of all of this in a way. :)17:42
rickspencer3bratsche, seb128 could I ask you guys to take it to PM until after our meeting? we're going to be done soon17:42
Riddellrickspencer3: do you know if we can file a bug report with somebody about that?17:42
bratscheSorry.17:42
seb128rickspencer3, yes, sorry17:42
rickspencer3bratsche don't be sorry, its all good17:42
rickspencer3Riddell, uh, I don't know17:42
rickspencer3It's a well known issue, and I think your energy will be better spent working around it ;)17:43
rickspencer3otherwise, maybe ping dgoggin?17:43
rickspencer3ok, on to release status?17:43
rickspencer3I haven't looked at Maverick bugs yet, so we'll just skip that for this week ;)17:43
rickspencer3I *think* our blueprints are substantially done, and work items identified17:44
rickspencer3are there any blueprints that should be, but are not, showing up here:17:44
rickspencer3http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html17:44
seb128(it's too early to look at bugs anyway or rather to start tracking those)17:45
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: mine will be ready by eow (after sprinting with mvo and meeting with michaelforrest)17:45
rickspencer3ArneGoetje, ack17:46
rickspencer3seb128, do you feel that the blueprints are substantially complete?17:46
seb128rickspencer3, yes17:46
seb128I've been looking to the UDS topics and the registered blueprints for the meeting we had17:47
rickspencer3sweet!17:47
rickspencer3so it's Tuesday17:47
seb128the current list seems to be good17:47
rickspencer3basically, it took us 6.5 working days to get to this state17:47
rickspencer3that's quite good, I think17:47
rickspencer3in terms of turn around from UDS to starting real work17:48
rickspencer3perhaps we can shoot for 5 days in m + 1?17:48
rickspencer3and maybe work a bit tighter with out partners17:48
tremoluxyes, that's the trickiest bit17:49
rickspencer32 questions occurred to me when I was looking through the specs17:49
rickspencer3#1 Are there patches for chromium that should be in the distro (make sqllite, gtk, etc... go faster?)17:49
rickspencer3like, if these chromium takes these patches to make chromium better, any reason we wouldn't take those into the distro?17:49
rickspencer3I don't want an answer now, but would someone like to take the lead to answer this question for our next meeting?17:49
seb128I think the chromium guys try to get their changes upstream but yeah, worth investigating17:50
seb128chrisccoulson, maybe you could have a look to that?17:51
rickspencer3seb128, right, but there is a long turn around17:51
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, no problem. i'll try and figure out what changes they carry17:51
rickspencer3thanks chrisccoulson17:51
rickspencer3ACTION: chrisccoulson to investigate any chromium changes appropriate for the distro17:52
rickspencer3#2 how to make Qt apps run nicer on Ubuntu?17:52
rickspencer3I installed parley last night, and it works, but has terrible integration17:52
rickspencer3Qt is quite catching on, and I think we'll see more and more people want to run Qt apps on Ubuntu17:52
rickspencer3I'm wondering if there is something we can do to improve integration17:53
rickspencer3anyone interested in investigating for next week?17:53
didrocks(I'm interested but not sure I have the time right now for next week)17:53
rickspencer3yes, you are quite loaded with work for the next two weeks17:54
rickspencer3didrocks, can we carry this over to next week, perhaps you or someone else will be interested then17:54
rickspencer3seb128, sound ok?17:54
didrocksrickspencer3: sure17:54
seb128rickspencer3, you want to investigate what option the qt world gives there? or work to do?17:55
rickspencer3seb128, I want to know what work we could do to make Qt apps look like they just "fit in" to our desktop17:55
rickspencer3currently, they stand out, some badly17:55
seb128I would suggest that those who know better about qt are kubuntu guys, ie Riddell17:55
rickspencer3Riddell, can you take a look? it would entail installing Ubuntu ;)17:56
Riddellas ever in these cases kubuntu guys are unlikiely to care about ubuntu desktops (just as I've never noticed ubuntu desktop people caring about how gtk looks horrible on kubuntu)17:56
seb128Riddell, I do know that there is a qtk-gt-engine though17:56
rickspencer3right, it's not symetric17:56
seb128it has been creating quite some bugs :-p17:56
Riddellseb128: we dropped that two releases ago :)17:56
rickspencer3we care about Qt running on Gnome, but not about Gtk tunning on KDE17:57
rickspencer3ok, I'll keep it open until next week17:57
seb128rickspencer3, right, I was just pointing that if I know about this maybe somebody in kubuntu knows about something similar for qt17:57
rickspencer3after that, i'll have to assign it to someone17:57
rickspencer3(if no one volunteers)17:57
seb128ok17:57
rickspencer3probably for A317:57
Riddellqt should have a built in theme for gnome, possibly it doesn't get used by kde apps17:58
rickspencer3I think everyone has work items planned out for A2, so it won't fit now, anyway17:58
seb128right, it also doesn't seem something which need to be done early in the cycle17:58
seb128a3 seems good enough17:58
rickspencer3any other business?17:58
rickspencer3well well well17:59
rickspencer3I guess we are really ready to rock Maverick!17:59
kenvandine:)17:59
rickspencer3I'll call that a wrap then17:59
* rickspencer3 taps gavel17:59
tremoluxhaha  \o/17:59
rickspencer3thanks all, this really is a rocking team, maverick is going to raise the bar, yet again!18:00
seb128thanks rickspencer318:00
didrocksthanks rickspencer3 ;)18:00
ArneGoetjethanks18:00
pittigo, desktop team,  go!18:01
seb128pitti, ;-)18:02
Jasrajhello everyone19:15
JasrajI am new to ubuntu19:15
Jasrajinstalled a 64 bit version today19:16
Jasrajfacing problem with display drivers19:16
Jasrajanyone to help me out?19:16
Jasrajno one?19:17
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
Gianna_Parryhi everyone!19:30
Gianna_Parryi'm looking to help out19:30
rickspencer3hi Gianna_Parry19:32
rickspencer3welcome19:33
didrocksrickspencer3: seem you were not convincing enough :)19:35
rickspencer3:/19:38
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
diekiI notice that the software center wiki page talks of purchasing software. Will this be like Apple's App Store where anybody can submit something for consideration and approval, or will it just be a few things like DVD players, MP3 codecs, etc. provided by Canonical or Canonical parteners?19:54
mvocan we make apport not pop up a gazillion times when multiple crashes are pending?19:55
diekiI'm hoping for an App Store...19:55
diekiAnybody know which way the Software Center will be?20:06
diekiOr is that not to be publicly revealed yet...20:06
diekiHm. Either nobody knows, or else nobody is interested in saying anything...20:29
dieki(Or perhaps this is the wrong place to ask?)20:29
pittigood night everyone!20:39
diekiI notice that the software center wiki page talks of purchasing software.20:41
dieki+Will this be like Apple's App Store where anybody can submit something for20:41
dieki+consideration and approval, or will it just be a few things like DVD players,20:41
dieki+MP3 codecs, etc. provided by Canonical or Canonical parteners?20:41
andreserlrickspencer3, could you please "approve": https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-testdrive-frontend-gsoc ? thank you!!21:14
rickspencer3andreserl, done21:26
andreserlrickspencer3, thank you :)21:27
rickspencer3np21:27
=== ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
ayan3~/names22:44
TheMusoGood morning all.23:32
fagangood morning TheMuso23:33
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
ccheneywhile away at server sprint apparently my air conditioning at home broke down, not good :-\23:42
* ccheney hopes a breaker just threw23:43
faganccheney: wow could it cause any damage. /me doesnt know anything about air con. Ireland is too cold for people to get it23:43
faganActually the air con made me feel really weird at UDS Dallas I had to go outside for air every few hours because I didnt feel to well.23:45
ccheneyfagan: yea and i'm doing lots of OOo builds for an upcoming release, hopefully it won't melt down23:45
ccheneyits in the mid 30Cs where i live23:46
faganccheney: well we would hit 30C about 1 time every 3 years23:46
faganish23:46
ccheneyfagan: it gets up to the high 40Cs where I live in Jul/Aug23:46
ccheneywith lots of humidity :-(23:47
faganI couldnt live with that23:47
* ccheney hopes its just a breaker that needs reset23:47
* fagan hopes so too so ccheney doesnt melt23:47
ccheneyheh23:48
ccheneyi won't be back until fri but my wife is 9mo pregnant and at home in the heat :(23:48
faganOoh thats not good23:48
faganhopefully it will have an easy fix23:49
ccheneyyea23:49
faganmorning RAOF23:51
RAOFGood morning.23:51
* fagan goes to bed23:53
rickspencer3hey RAOF23:53
rickspencer3RAOF, could you please answer that email from Yingying in the next 60 minutes?23:54
RAOFHey rickspencer323:54
rickspencer3I have a call with her later tonight23:54
RAOFOk, certainly.23:54
* TheMuso will brb in a couple of mins.23:59

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