[00:00] Good morninginging [00:01] Morning RAOF, hey rickspencer3. [00:02] hi TheMuso [00:02] happy Tuesday [00:02] Morning TheMuso [00:16] tuesday? [00:16] what strange alternate universe is this? [00:16] desrt, they live in Sydney [00:16] they are from the future [00:16] Well, and Hobart. [00:17] time, down under [00:17] RAOF, you know Hobart is a manufacturer of industrial dishwashers, right? [00:17] "I remember the future, like it was only yesterday." [00:18] rickspencer3: No? What dishwashers? [00:18] http://www.google.com/products?q=hobart+dishwashers&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Jwn7S47TMML98AbGvInHCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQrQQwAw [00:18] for restaurants and cafeterias and stuff [00:18] * rickspencer3 notes that RAOF never had a crap job in food service [00:19] Wow. The things you learn :) [00:19] 8K new [00:19] wowsers [00:19] lifeless: hem? [00:20] desrt: the first item in ricks link [00:20] a dishwasher [00:20] oh. i thought you meant "8000 new instances of [something]" [00:21] mind you [00:21] I want one of these: http://www.dexigner.com/product/news-g3239.html [00:21] better link - http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/default.asp [00:23] uses co2 gas? [00:23] liquid [00:23] makes more sense :) [00:23] room temp pressurises Co2 [00:23] http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/beneath.asp [00:23] s/s /d / [00:25] fascinating [00:25] http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/exhibits/binddes/rockpool/interface.asp is pretty cool [00:25] and a real eye opener about UI [00:26] Yeah. [00:27] lifeless: pretty weird interface there [00:28] i'd suspect a pair of buttons would be more intuitive [00:28] you'd need several buttons though [00:28] also: less pointlessly expensive [00:28] open/close and "wash now" [00:28] open/close/start per side no ? [00:28] Pointlessly expensive? It's a supercritical CO₂ dishwasher! [00:29] lifeless: as it is, you need a rock per side [00:29] 15$ in parts for a couple of magnets and logic vs a pressurised co2 containment system and seperator ? [00:29] I'll pay it:> [00:30] lifeless: 15$ added to the cost of each unit in a mass-produced item is a no-go :p [00:30] I disagree [00:30] you have to talk % not absolute costs [00:30] true [00:30] but i imagine the co2 tech will get a lot cheaper [00:31] dishwashers today are ~ 2K for standalone units [00:31] 15 dollars there is still < 2% [00:31] there is 10 times that variance across models already. [00:31] more than even [00:31] anyway... the cost was not my main point [00:32] my entire point was "less intuitive -and- costs more, to boot" [00:33] erf, allhands.canonical.com is really irritating me [00:33] Conversion Error [00:33] "HR0F08F0CC-C17F-463C-8D7C-3B3412F8ABFD_ZY3NDOMS0SALAsessment_1541_6": Error during model data update. [00:33] seems like a neat gimick, that's all [00:34] Hi, I asked this in #ayatana also, but I was wondering if someone in here might know... I want to bundle a light and dark tray icon with my app to match the new Lucid look and feel, but I'm wondering where exactly to put them so that appindicator picks them up [00:35] desrt: I think you learn how to use it by fiddling with greater ease than my dishwasher [00:35] * ccheney made it to the hotel :) [00:37] lifeless: my initial reaction would be "what idiot put this rock on the dishwasher?" :p [00:37] well, assume you don't know its a dishwasher [00:38] because I doubt you would, its just a tray, with a rock, under some glass [00:38] btw: add moving glass shield and motion/proximity sensor to your cost estimation :p [00:38] I suspect the shield is part of the containment system [00:38] could be wrong [00:39] i suspect it's a "we don't let you move the rock if it would put the system into an inconsistent state" system [00:39] seems like the system could be sealed by the main door that covers the plates [00:39] ah that too [00:41] zachtib: somewhere in a subfolder of ubuntu-mono-light & ubuntu-mono-dark I suppose [00:42] JanC: that's where I have them, but appindicator isn't picking them up [00:45] /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/apps/22/lookit.svg and i've given the indicator the icon name "lookit" [00:45] it picks up an icon if I throw it into /usr/share/pixmaps [00:45] but that won't let me conform to the theme [00:56] zachtib: I'd guess that you'd need to re-run the icon theme cache generator. This doesn't sound like the right approach, though, as it's specific to these icon themes. [00:56] i did run gtk-update-icon-cache [01:16] c [01:17] RAOF, if we hold back 3d support for intel 8xx chipsets, we use Vesa for those chips? [01:18] rickspencer3: Correct. [01:20] wow, the burndown chart page makes is really easy to be transparent with our plans [01:30] rickspencer3, howso? [01:30] bryceh, well ... I'm working on my normal "this is what we decided at UDS" blog post [01:31] and using http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/ ... [01:31] I can pretty much see everything [01:31] and these are totally public pages [01:31] so users can just look at the individual work items we have assigned ourselves [01:31] ah cool [01:31] I wonder how many other projects work with this degree of transparency? [01:32] I think Eclipse might [01:33] there is also this, of course: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule [01:33] the combination is potent from a planning and tracking pov [01:35] dinner time [02:10] Does anybody know off hand what is responsible for multimedia key press handling? [02:16] TheMuso: My understanding is: the kernel should be translating them to recognisable keycodes, then gnome-settings-daemon dispatches them to whatever multimedia app has registered for notifications. [02:16] with some X in between [02:16] RAOF: Right, its the gnome-settings-daemon bit I was wondering about, thanks. [02:17] mclasen: Always. :) [02:17] in this case a bit of bottleneck, keycode-wise [03:05] hello all, the ubuntu studio devs were wondering if removing a patch for network-admin would present a regression for vanilla desktop users [03:05] bug #570828 [03:05] Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 34)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570828 [03:05] i don't think that network-admin is installed by default for a desktop installation, so i didn't think this would really present a regression [04:21] desrt, are you making more work for me? :) [04:21] robert_ancell: yes :) [04:21] robert_ancell: dconf release coming in a few minutes [04:22] robert_ancell: i have the beginning of a dconf client API too [04:22] so you could theoretically start working on the editor [04:22] *lots* of new work :) [04:22] desrt, also, I didn't realise you already had packages for dconf - is there any reason why I shouldn't just take those into universe? [04:22] i dont' have packages for dconf [04:22] the ones in my PPA are hilariously ancient [04:22] i should delete them, actually [04:23] btw: probably time for a MIR [04:23] desrt, universe first :) [04:24] ok. GSettings PPA is history [04:24] desrt, I think I'll stick with the names you used for now - we can change the source package name in the future if required [04:24] desrtconf? :D [04:25] libdconf. So now we know what the d stands for [04:25] robert_ancell: you didn't already know? :p [04:25] anyway. fine with me. [04:26] there was another issue, though: dconf tries to install /usr/bin/dconf [04:26] sigh, glib takes so long to build... It hung on a unittest for .6, hoping this one works better [04:26] ya. there's a gtester bug that leads to periodic hangs [04:26] desrt, what has to execute /usr/bin/dconf? [04:26] the testcase terminates but the tester framework fails to notice the SIGCHLD [04:26] robert_ancell: humans [04:26] desrt, is that fixed? [04:27] robert_ancell: no. long-standing difficult bug [04:27] desrt, so it's just random? [04:27] it's a race [04:27] it bites me sometimes during releases [04:27] then i swear [04:27] ok, feeling lucky this time [04:27] 'make distcheck' takes longer than your normal build-from-tarball :p [04:27] and i have to start allll over again [04:27] humans don't execute dconf right? [04:27] well [04:28] humans as in me and you, or humans as in "Linux for Human Beings"? [04:28] you and i will definitely want to execute /usr/bin/dconf from time to time. it's the gconf-tool equivalent [04:28] it gets run by libdconf on demand right? Or gnome-session? [04:28] ok, so it can handle a name changing for now then [04:28] ah. that's /usr/libexec/dconf-service [04:28] or /usr/lib/dconf/dconf-service in the debian world, i guess [04:29] are you packaging now? [04:31] I did some yesterday, waiting to get the updated glib working before I propose it [04:31] and when I've installed it I'll try the API out [04:32] k. just wanted to say that you should not package dconf 0.3 [04:32] 0.3.1 will be out very soon [04:33] ok [04:33] maverick is unstable anyway :) [04:34] 0.3 won't even build anymore :p [04:34] i broke glib API today, times two [04:34] both of them breaking dconf 0.3 [04:35] So what is dconf compared to gsettings? [04:36] desrt, that's why there's no MIR yet :) [04:37] ok. dconf 0.3.1 is now released in the usual places [04:38] TheMuso, dconf=backend, gsettings=api [04:39] desrt, is anyone working on an LDAP backend? I think that was one of the criticisms of gconf right? [04:42] robert_ancell: no. [04:43] robert_ancell: but rodrigo is planning an ubuntu1/couchdb backend [04:43] reminds me -- i promised him a plugin API in dconf-service [04:43] hmmm [04:43] TheMuso, can you add something here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication ? Paperwork says I need 3-5 endorsements. [04:44] Things I could do better [04:44] Filling out Ubuntu paperwork earlier (e.g. Core Dev applications) [04:47] hmm. i think i'll be doing the sleeping thing now [04:47] robert_ancell: best of luck. let me know if you hit any problems, of course [04:47] desrt, thanks, see you later [04:47] good night (morning?) [04:47] 2pm [04:47] * desrt pads off [04:52] robert_ancell: woops it slipped off the radar, will take care of that in a bit. [05:02] TheMuso, also, can you sponsor gucharmap from bzr? [05:02] pitti, ^^^ should gucharmap be in the desktop set? [05:03] pitti, actually I should be bugging seb128 for these things now [05:05] robert_ancell: sure [05:05] TheMuso, oh and I'm about to ask you to sponsor glib in a minute too :) [05:10] robert_ancell: no problem [05:27] robert_ancell: uploading gucharmap [05:27] TheMuso, sweet [05:36] robert_ancell: let me know when you want me to look at glib [05:36] c [05:37] it's rebuilding yet again, failed at the final step (missing symbols from .symbols file) [05:38] ah ok [05:48] TheMuso, gconf too? [05:48] sure [05:50] Just let me know when they are ready. [06:05] TheMuso, both ready [06:05] robert_ancell: ok will do them right away. [06:25] a question... using dvd version of Ubuntu... can i make a new Xubuntu/Ubuntu/Kubuntu installation? Or is just Ubuntu with more packages on dvd? [06:26] oh sorry... wrong place :/ [06:26] was just a xchat problem [06:31] yay long glib test runs. :_ [06:56] * TheMuso does gconf while waiting for glib... [07:08] robert_ancell: gconf FTBF son i3786 for me [07:08] i386 even [07:14] robert_ancell: and amd64. I'll update my chroot to see if that helps any. [07:18] TheMuso, ok, looking here [07:30] TheMuso, it just built for me on my Maverick box (i386) [07:31] Hrm. [07:31] Well I updated my amd64 chroot. Thats weird, I'll try again. [07:31] Damn you, sbuild? Why are you failing, and leaving zombie mounts around after you? [07:32] RAOF: you running amverick on bare metal? [07:32] maverick [07:32] Ah. This is the problem? [07:32] TheMuso, on my test box [07:33] but thinking about migrating my main box as then I can compile faster [07:33] robert_ancell: right. I'll pastebin the error if it happens again. [07:33] ok glib uploading. [07:33] I had trouble getting my Maverick pbuilder to work in Lucid, gave up and just use the test box [07:35] RAOF, I hear your frustration :) [07:37] Fortunately, pbuilder exists, and works. [07:38] Just slightly less nice. [07:41] robert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/439226/ [07:49] robert_ancell: the above is the gconf FTBFs. [08:02] Good morning [08:02] robert_ancell: gucharmap> is it not? === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [08:04] good morning [08:05] hey didrocks [08:05] hey pitti, how was your week-end? [08:05] nice and long; lots of fresh air :) [08:05] how was you'rs? [08:05] your's [08:06] pitti: nice too, a lot of walk in Paris :) [08:11] pitti, no, it's in main [08:13] robert_ancell: but it's already installed by default [08:13] robert_ancell: and ubuntu-desktop pulls it in [08:15] pitti, I think it needs to be added to the ubuntu-desktop whitelist [08:15] robert_ancell: oh, you mean for team upload, not seed [08:15] yeah [08:15] robert_ancell: probably some other desktop uses it as well [08:16] robert_ancell: can you please ping cjwatson about it? [08:16] thanks, couldn't remember who was doing it [08:16] xubuntu uses it as well as studio. [08:16] and ubuntu netbook [08:17] at least in lucid. [08:22] robert_ancell: were you building gconf in a chroot at all? Without having delved deeper, I still don't know why I gt an FTBFs as above. [08:23] TheMuso, I've uploaded it to a PPA to see what happens there [08:23] robert_ancell: ok [08:35] hello mvo [08:35] hey glatzor! [08:40] TheMuso, fixed gconf, can you try again? [08:41] good morning glatzor, mvo (and robert_ancell ;)) [08:41] hey didrocks robert_ancell [08:41] hello [08:41] hey didrocks and robert_ancell and seb128 [08:41] bonjour seb128, guten Morgen mvo [08:42] urgh, I didn't mean to scare you [08:42] hey pitti [08:42] heh :) [08:42] good morning seb128 [08:42] wrong click [08:42] bonjour seb128 [08:42] hey mvo pitti [08:43] hello didrocks [08:43] mvo: FYI, I have pushed this week-end a new version of oneconf-query using an undocumented desktopcouch function (batch_update) which help for first update (from more than 1min to less than 1s) [08:43] getting coffee, back in a bit [08:45] didrocks: sweet [08:45] didrocks: that is great news [08:45] mvo: yes ;) I'll finish later today the metapackage handling and I think it's done for the CLI part. Will add the dbus backend this week, I hope [08:47] ok [08:47] I'm doing a mini sprint this week with arne to improve language-selector [08:47] so I won't have much time (unfortunately) for it [08:48] mvo: no pb. I have no blocker right now :) [08:48] mvo: enjoy your mini sprint! [08:48] it starts tomorrow :) [08:48] (mini-mini :) [08:50] reboot brb [08:51] heh :) [09:17] chrisccoulson: hey! if you have a moment, can you help me with a NM releated question? [09:53] good morning everyone [09:54] hey mvo [09:54] hey chrisccoulson [09:56] hey chrisccoulson, how are you? [09:56] good morning chrisccoulson [09:56] hey seb128, i'm good thanks. did you enjoy your long weekend? [09:56] hey didrocks, how are you too? [09:57] chrisccoulson: I'm fine after a good week-end :) [09:57] yes, very nice weather and relaxing weekend [09:58] you had nice weather too? it was quite hot here at the weekend [09:59] yes, summer weather [10:00] we had 2 whole days of summer weather at the weekend, which probably means that summer is finished for us until next year ;) [10:00] lol [10:20] morning [10:41] chrisccoulson: good morning, how are you? [10:41] pitti - yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you? [10:41] I'm great, thanks [10:54] bratsche, (in case you missed it yesterday) the c-s-d patch in gtk also breaks acroread in the partner's repo [10:54] fta, he's sleeping [10:55] it's middle of night for him now [10:55] oh, which TZ? [10:55] Dallas [10:55] ok, thanks [11:39] fta, is anybody still using jaunty? [11:39] seb128, why? [11:39] fta, you are blocking a ppa builder for hours building chromium dailies for jaunty [11:40] I think we could make better use of that ppa builder ;-) [11:40] ie I'm waiting for some builds for an hours and looked at what was blocking builds [11:40] seb128, (i often get user requests for mozilla & chromium from jaunty users) [11:40] users are weird ;-) [11:40] why would anybody stay on jaunty [11:42] seb128, well, chromium starts at 4am, but today, it ftbfsed and i fixed it this morning [11:42] ok [11:42] I've nothing against those daily build [11:42] it just seems the jaunty build is wasting cycles for almost nothing though [11:42] seb128, iirc, lp shouldn't give me all the resources. something else is blocking too [11:42] I doubt many users are staying on an one year old non lts version [11:43] right it doesn't give you all the ressources but half of it [11:43] i'm sill waiting for the ppa stats to see how many users each dist still has [11:43] which means the other stack of build is taking double time ;-) [11:43] anyway I don't want to argue [11:44] I just doubt there is many people still running jaunty [11:44] it wasn't our best version, it's one year old and it's not a lts [11:44] so it seems costy in build time for a few users only [11:46] if i stop running the testsuite, i could shrink the build time from 2h to ~30m [11:47] if you think you have users on jaunty don't bother about my comment [11:47] I though it was a leftover [11:47] I'm just surprised that anybody still rely on it [11:48] well, i really have no idea, i just see the users complains i get in my mbox when the builds fail for more than a few days [11:48] ups [11:48] i need to check the status of bug 139855 [11:48] Launchpad bug 139855 in soyuz (and 2 other projects) "Display stats about PPA usage (affects: 19) (dups: 1) (heat: 156)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139855 [11:48] well you will see 3 jaunty user complaining I guess [11:49] where you might creating issue for some thousand users waiting on builds for versions actually used ;-) [11:49] ie lucid or maverick [11:51] most of the time, noone complains. when there's a mass-rebuild, i usually stop all my dailies until it clears out [11:51] ok [11:52] other users probably just wait the hour without complaining about the useless jaunty builds blocking a builder ;-) [11:52] anyway lunch time [11:52] bbl [11:54] so I uploaded f-spot 0.6.2 yesterday. What should happen with the SRU? [12:28] Laney, hey [12:28] Laney, somebody should work on it? ;-) [12:29] Laney, we need to lower changes for the sru so we can't use the maverick version, we want to update the lucid one without packaging changes [12:29] there is quite some changes there for a stable update though it seems [12:46] mvo, update-notifier displays a notification area icon again in maverick it seems [12:46] seb128: oh? I did not upload it, maybe it got synced via debian? [12:46] mvo, indeed it did [12:47] seb128: I check it out [12:48] " * Show the tray icon instead of running update-manager (Closes: #578717)," [12:48] " the update-manager mode does not even work currently due to Bug#579789." [12:48] mvo, ^ in the current Debian revision [12:50] seb128: yeah, just saw itI will upload a new version in a little bit I think [12:50] and see what changes debian has that are worth taking [12:51] mvo, no hurry I was just mentioning it because I noticed on my mini which I use as a testbox ;-) [12:52] ok :) [12:55] I don't know if even just the upstream changes would be alright [12:55] can someone take a look at those? [13:01] Laney, it seems to be quite some changes to me [13:01] yes indeed [13:02] I guess we could either go with backporting fixes or trying to get the versions in lucid-proposed for a while [13:02] which is why I don't know if it'll go into lucid at all [13:02] would be nice to have pitti or somebody from the sru team to comment on it [13:02] do you have a simplified debdiff online somewhere? [13:02] ie one without autotools noise, translations, etc [13:09] http://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/fspot.diff [13:09] it's large due to stuff like removing Mono.Addins which we never linked against anyway [13:09] seb128, pitti: ^ [13:10] Laney, can you filter that out from the debdiff too? [13:11] let me look at it there [13:14] Laney, seems too many changes for a sru in my opinion [13:16] I updated the diff [13:16] but yes it likely is [13:18] Laney, I think I would rather work by backporting fixes for some of the issues in launchpad [13:23] I agree, this is really intrusive [14:26] seb128, I renamed the meeting page with the proper date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-25 [14:27] hey rickspencer3 [14:27] good, I double checked my calender I was wondering if my computer was on the wrong day ;-) [14:29] I just refreshed the page before posting and was quite surprized to see it gone :) [14:30] * kenvandine should refresh :) [14:33] oops [14:33] hope I didn't blow away anyone's data [14:33] kenvandine: btw, if you do batch insert to desktopcouch, you should really consider put_records_batch [14:33] rickspencer3: not for me, it was refreshing before copy and paste :) [14:33] didrocks, did you find docs? [14:33] rickspencer3, not yet... [14:33] :) [14:34] kenvandine: no, but it's easy to use: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+junk/oneconf/revision/7 [14:34] kenvandine: just a list of Records [14:34] kenvandine: for 1700 entries it goes for more than 1min here to less than 1s :) [14:35] woot [14:35] so it is a list of json strings? [14:36] oh [14:36] a list of CouchRecord objects [14:36] kenvandine: yes [14:36] sweet [14:36] * kenvandine thinks there should really be docs :) [14:39] hey ayan [14:39] welcome [14:39] hello seb! [14:40] everybody, ayan has started recently in the hwe team and is going to do gtk work there [14:40] he doesn't have too much on his plate yet and he might be helping us for a bit [14:40] so he can see how Ubuntu works and get started on some gtk bugs, etc [14:41] hello everyone! [14:45] hey ayan [14:45] ayan: welcome to the team :) [14:45] hi! thanks. :) [14:46] seb128: so, gtk + compiz ? ;) [14:46] lol [14:46] didrocks, no compiz, he's not in our team ;-) [14:46] ayan, don't be scared, it's a desktop team tradition, new comers get to maintain compiz [14:46]