/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/25/#ubuntu-manual.txt

quickshotdevsNew news from manualplanet: Benjamin Humphrey: Brussels, beer, Ubuntu and boys taking a leak06:03
ubuntujenkinsmorning08:25
nisshhubuntujenkins: hey08:33
ubuntujenkinshello nisshh08:33
nisshhubuntujenkins: that ooa works great08:34
nisshhppa08:34
ubuntujenkinsthat was the plan :P . So far we have no bugs with it I hope it stays like that08:35
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: can we add the ppa to the website?08:47
ChrisWoollard_I also agree. That ppa works a treat.09:10
dutchieproblem #42 in making the bug form work: debian has bzr 1.5, launchpad requires bzr 1.16 to download branches09:40
popeydutchie: upgrade bzr?10:29
dutchiepopey: yeah, going to have to12:08
dutchiestupid inferoior 2g connection12:12
dutchiebah12:36
dutchieno godbyk or daker :(12:36
thorwildutchie: look on the bright side! i'm here and most likely totally useless regarding whatever you have on your mind or at hand ;)12:39
dutchiedo you know if there is a 500/404 page used on u-m.org?12:41
dutchiethat I canborow12:41
thorwilhttp://ubuntu-manual.org/thequeenisnotamused12:45
thorwilapparently the url is interpreted as far as possible, so you always get at least the home page :(12:45
nisshhgodbyk: there is a guy asking on lp when the german version of e1 will be released, apparently its now fully translated on lp14:28
nisshhgodbyk-android: ^^^14:30
ChrisWoollard_There have been a lot of bugs filed today against the manual!15:27
dutchiegodbyk: CNAME bugs.ubuntu-manual.org to um-bugs.joshh.co.uk15:28
ubuntujenkinsChrisWoollard_: my inbox noticed :-)15:30
ChrisWoollard_It looks like a guy called Marc Stewart is reading the intire book and logging bugs as he goes. He is on page 36 at the moment. :)15:32
ChrisWoollard_i mean entire15:33
ubuntujenkinsat least we will be very bug free15:33
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: your form asks for an e-mail. Where in the bug report does that go? will it not be traceable by bots?15:34
ChrisWoollard_Some of those bugs are tricky. He is really pushing my knowledge of english grammar. So much so that I have had to get a book out to help.15:35
ubuntujenkinsI thought i would try and help. but then i looked at how complex they can be and decided my english is not up to it. I am a mechnical engineer we are better at maths15:37
ubuntujenkinsbe back later15:41
ubuntujenkinso/15:41
ChrisWoollard_I am going to spend my evening trying to make sense of some more. At least he is explaining his reasoning behind the changes.15:41
ChrisWoollard_See you15:41
dutchieubuntujenkins: it doesn't go anywhere yet15:51
dutchiei may remove it15:52
dutchieinitially I just copied the fields from the spreadsheet15:53
dutchienow it's up, i can start to get some feeback15:53
dutchie+d15:53
dutchiejust don't let humphreybc publicise it everywhere, as it's nowhere near ready15:54
dutchieright, hometime15:55
ubuntujenkins dutchie message recived I will stop ben if i see someone tell him17:27
godbykI'm home again.18:16
godbykI'll take a look at the ubuntu-manual bugs in a moment.18:16
godbykGoing to have lunch first.18:16
ChrisWoollardThere are lots18:54
godbykChrisWoollard: No problem. I can usually blow through them pretty quickly.18:55
godbykI'm fairly good at US English grammar.18:55
godbyk(And don't mind telling people that they're wrong.) :)18:55
godbykis anyone else editing right now that I'll interfere with?18:57
ChrisWoollardNot at the moment. After I put my children to bed. I'll mark bugs as in progress if I am working on them.18:58
godbykokay, cool.19:03
nisshhgodbyk: let me know when you go through and hunt for glossary entries, no rush but id like to get a whole bunch more in there19:03
godbykI'm gonna eat lunch real quick and then I'll dive in.19:03
godbyknisshh: absolutely!19:03
nisshhcool19:03
godbyknisshh: you might post a message to the list and ask people what they think should be in the glossary and index, too.  just so we have some ideas.19:03
godbyknisshh: oh, and you shouldn't have self-referencing glossary entries.  don't use \gls{thisword} in the 'thisword' entry. (there's not much point.)19:04
nisshhgodbyk: right, and since chapter 6 is no longer going to be in the manual after 10.10 i might take over the maintenance of the index19:04
nisshhgodbyk: good point ill remove those tommorrow19:04
godbyk'kay.19:05
godbykwe'll collect ideas for the index. I'll work with you on it a bit later.19:05
godbyk(it's easy; we just need to make sure we set some rules for consistency.)19:05
nisshhright, like we are doing for the rest of the manual19:05
godbykyep19:05
nisshhok, ill post to the ML in the morning19:06
nisshhmy brain is starting to die now that its 2am19:06
godbykheh.. no worries.19:07
nisshhanyways, ill cya in the morning probably, gnight!19:07
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
godbykOkay, time to crush some bugs.20:00
godbykRight now I'm just going through and assigning most of the grammar-related bugs to myself.  I'll start editing them in a little bit.20:14
ChrisWoollardI have also started working on bugs20:18
godbykChrisWoollard: feel free to dive in. I've assigned a bunch of them to myself. (mostly the grammar and formatting bugs.)20:19
godbykI have to send out a few emails, so I won't be stepping on your toes in bzr for a little while yet. :)20:19
ChrisWoollardAs20:20
ChrisWoollardI am going to work on one thing at a time and mark in progress as I am going20:21
ChrisWoollardI am going to prop20:21
ChrisWoollardprobably work on anything that isn't formatting20:21
godbykokay.20:23
godbykI think I stole most the formatting bugs, too.20:23
godbyk:)20:23
dutchiegodbyk: did you do the CNAME?20:23
godbykdutchie: uh, nope. where do you want me to point it?20:24
dutchieum-bugs.joshh.co.uk20:24
dutchieshould be ready to go20:24
godbykokay.20:25
godbyksetting it up now20:25
dutchie(you can observe it running at that address, too)20:26
godbykI've added the CNAME record.20:27
godbykIt may take a moment for it to propagate to all the DNS servers, of course.20:27
godbykBut it looks like it's working here already.20:28
godbykhttp://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/20:28
ubuntujenkinsworks for me20:28
Zeikeme too20:28
godbyksubmitting a bug to test it. :)20:28
godbykwhat's the story with staging.launchpad.net, anyway?20:28
dutchietesting purposes :)20:29
godbykmy bug: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/58029220:29
dutchiefeedback?20:29
* ubuntujenkins has a go20:30
godbykI would probably set English and Spelling.. as the defaults for the dropdown lists.20:30
godbyk(the language in the end should default to the browser language, but we only have the english edition out so far.)20:30
ZeikeDoes anybody want to give this a quick look through and tell me what you think? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/439510/20:30
godbykmaybe add a note telling them where to find the revision number (bottom of the copyright page)20:30
ubuntujenkinsyou can type letters in the number feild20:31
godbykZeike: what am I looking at?20:31
dutchieubuntujenkins: but if you click submit, it shouldn't let you20:31
dutchiegodbyk: noted20:31
godbykof course, we'll want to pretty up the formatting at some point, but I assume you're not asking about that. :)20:31
dutchiewell, yeah, that too20:32
ZeikeIts the file system section from the command line chapter.  Page 12120:32
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: my bad had not got that far20:32
godbykseems okay. was there anything we had on our google bug form that didn't transfer over?20:32
godbykdutchie: ooh, could you have it do a lookup on the supplied page number to add the chapter name to the bug report, too?  makes it easier to find the bug on our end.20:32
godbyk(I realize it's variable depending on the revision, but it'll give us an idea.)20:33
godbyk(and it beats me grepping the .tex files for a phrase)20:33
ubuntujenkinsalso the suggestion box doesn't show in the bug report or a i mad?20:33
dutchiegodbyk: that sounds, er, fun20:34
dutchiei was going to add in a dupe finder based vaguely on what we have in the DB20:34
dutchiecould just add in a "chapter" ox20:35
dutchie+b20:35
godbyktrue. as long as it's not too much to ask of people. :)20:35
dutchieyeah20:37
dutchiecould probably collapse some of those entries down a little20:37
godbykdefault the revision entry to the current released edition of the translation/language they selected.20:38
dutchiehang on20:38
dutchieneed to find somewhere to make notes20:38
dutchieubuntujenkins: i don't think i added the suggestion box to what shows up in LP, so no, you're not mad :)20:42
ubuntujenkinshehe I think i may be mad any way :P20:43
dutchieentirely possible20:44
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: can we update the website with the latex ppa?20:45
* dutchie shares the todo doc with other @ubuntu-manual.org folks20:45
godbykubuntujenkins: you mean edit the text on the site?  sure. I'll add it to my list. :)20:47
ubuntujenkinscheers godbyk :)20:47
dutchiegodbyk: know if there is an easy way to make it visible to UMP folks?20:47
dutchie(via google docs)20:47
godbykdutchie: I'm not sure. other than sending a link.20:48
godbyklemme see if it shows up in my list.20:48
dutchiei don't think it will20:48
godbykgah.20:49
godbykgoogle's captcha's are the worst!20:49
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: I have sent you the instructions to save you finding them on the mailing list20:49
godbykubuntujenkins: thanks20:50
ubuntujenkinsthanks for doing it I have not looked into how to add stuff to the website yet. I need to sort out a quickshot one20:51
godbykdutchie: yeah, it's not in the list.20:51
godbykif you go to the sharing dialog, I think there's a 'share with all @ubuntu-manual.org users' checkbox or something.20:52
godbykubuntujenkins: no problem.20:52
dutchiei can't see one20:52
godbykubuntujenkins: basically just edit a file and commit it. the server auto-pulls every so oftetn.20:52
dutchiei think that's because i created it with my normal @googlemail.com account20:52
godbykah, that's probably why.20:52
dutchiethe accounts are linked together though20:53
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: yea i guessed but i need to make sure i do it correctly etc. I will add it to the list of stuff to do20:53
ubuntujenkinsI have set myself a deadline of 30th of june to have devloped the manual program for maverick and the quickshot ui. I hope i can pull it off as I will not be able to start untill 21st20:55
dutchieright, that does it20:55
godbykcool20:55
ubuntujenkinsI think lots of skype calls will be needed to say how wrong i have got it :)20:56
ubuntujenkinsI like the input really20:57
godbykI have to do some other work stuff for a bit (nothing exciting, unfortunately).  so I may be slow to respond. ping me if anyone needs me, though.20:57
ubuntujenkinswhats the biggest skype call you can have?20:59
dutchieright, one todo list uploaded to docs.ubuntu-manual.org20:59
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: i can't see it :/21:02
ubuntujenkinsits not on my list21:03
dutchieoh stupid thing21:03
dutchiesay shared from me to Ubuntu Manual21:04
dutchieare you logged in with your @ubuntu-manual.org address?21:04
ubuntujenkinsyep21:04
dutchiestupid slow safari21:05
dutchieit definitely says shared with everyone at ubuntu manual21:06
ubuntujenkins#blamep-o-p-e-y :P21:06
dutchie#blameubuntujenkins21:08
ubuntujenkinslol21:08
dutchie#blamegoogle21:08
dutchiehttp://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB21:09
dutchiedoes that work?21:09
ubuntujenkinsyep21:09
ubuntujenkinsstrange21:10
ubuntujenkinsand now its in my list21:10
ubuntujenkinsthanks josh21:11
dutchiegood good21:11
ChrisWoollardCan somebody give me their thoughts on bug #585484. Personally I think they are being picky. But i would like a 2nd / 3rd opinion.21:28
dutchieooh, no manualbot21:28
ubuntujenkins#58548421:29
godbykbug 54548421:29
godbykah, bummer.21:29
godbykbad bots!21:29
ubuntujenkins#58548421:29
ubuntujenkinshttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/58548421:29
manualbotLaunchpad bug 585484 in ubuntu-manual "Factual problem with sudo on page 123" [Undecided,New]21:29
godbykyay, manualbot!21:30
dutchiereally should get round to making manualbot start on boot21:30
ubuntujenkinsChrisWoollard: Personally I agree with the bug reporter. If I hit alt+f2 and type sudo gedit i don't see the sudo promt. I need gksudo so that i can type in my password. It is picky but could be frustraing to a new user. just my humble opinion.21:32
godbykChrisWoollard: I would say that if the manual is introducing sudo, use sudo.21:32
godbykI don't know that I run GUI apps using sudo..  I typically use it with command-line apps. But that's because I'm usually only running command-line apps.21:33
dutchie(note manualbot connects over ipv6 for extra geek points)21:34
ChrisWoollardBy looking at the manual i get the impression that sudo is being run from the shell and not from Alt+F2. If it was Alt+F2 I would specify gksudo.21:36
ChrisWoollardfrom the shell it really doesn't matter.21:37
ChrisWoollardOk. It has been decided. In this case it says as it is.21:42
* dutchie can tell from humphreybc's experience of European steak that he has not been to Europe before21:43
dutchie"Ask for a medium steak, get a rare steak. Ask for a rare steak, get a live cow."21:43
godbykThe last time I ordered a "hamburger" in England, I got a Salisbury steak on a bun.21:45
godbykAlso, cuts of meat are different in Europe, I discovered (or at least Germany).21:45
godbykIt added an extra complication when I was trying to explain to the butcher what I wanted. (The first complication being that I don't speak German.)21:46
ChrisWoollardWhere were you eating21:46
godbykI don't recall now.21:46
dutchiewhat the hell is a Salisbury steak?21:46
godbykI remember we were both reduced to pointing at body parts, though. :)21:46
ChrisWoollardA steak from Salisbury. Duh.21:47
ChrisWoollard:)21:47
godbykdutchie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_steak  :)21:47
godbykI think the only time I've seen the name, it's been on a TV dinner.21:47
dutchiestupid americans and your made-up words21:47
godbyklol21:48
godbykI wouldn't have guessed the etymology going back to a person's name. That's interesting.21:48
godbyk(Wikipedia teaches me so many new things each day.  It's wondrous!)21:49
ChrisWoollardTo me that sounded English. BUt apparently not. That explains why I have never heard of it21:49
godbykYeah, I'd assumed it was named after Salisbury (the place), but knew it was likely a US thing.21:50
godbyk(It was too processed to have come from anywhere else. ;-))21:50
ChrisWoollardGodbyk: I think bug #584504 is one for you. It is an index entry appearing in the wrong place22:19
manualbotLaunchpad bug 584504 in ubuntu-manual "erroneous entry at start of Index ie first entry of "CD/DVD Creator, 27"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58450422:19
godbykChrisWoollard: fair enough. feel free to assign it to me.22:19
ChrisWoollardok, will do22:19
ChrisWoollardI have a problem compiling the manual. It won't build anymore. It gets stuck half way22:39
ubuntujenkinsChrisWoollard: please paste bin your error22:40
godbykChrisWoollard: post the main.log file.22:40
ubuntujenkinshe he I saw "later live with jools holland" and read it as "later live with josh holland"22:44
ChrisWoollardhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/43956222:45
* dutchie is famous22:45
ChrisWoollardI don't think it was me that broke it.  I deleted my local branch and started again. It still didn't compile22:46
godbykChrisWoollard: are you compiling the main US English version? 'cause that log file looks okay22:47
ChrisWoollardThat is weird. in the terminal it said error 122:48
ChrisWoollardI was doing the us english22:49
ubuntujenkinsI am glad you say its ok kevin cos i thought so too. I thought i was missing the obvious22:49
godbykChrisWoollard: paste the output around the Error 1 stuff.22:49
* ubuntujenkins theres like 100 bug emails a day. We should be really bug free soon22:53
ChrisWoollardhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/43956822:54
flanWishful thinking.22:54
ubuntujenkinshello flan, true it is wishfull thinking but i like to be positive about these things :)22:56
ubuntujenkinsnight all22:56
dutchienight ubuntujenkins22:57
ubuntujenkinsnight dutchie22:57
godbykChrisWoollard: run: makeglossaries -L english main23:00
godbykand tell me if it gives any errors23:00
ChrisWoollardok, will do23:00
flanG'night, ubuntujenkins.23:01
godbykChrisWoollard: and if that's okay, try: makeindex main23:01
ChrisWoollardno errors on either23:02
godbykChrisWoollard: you're compiling the lucid-e2 branch, right?  and just running 'make' with no arguments?23:03
ChrisWoollardwhen i run make in the ubuntu-manual directory. It pauses about half way. Then i press enter and it continues23:03
ChrisWoollardI believe it is lucid-e223:04
godbykChrisWoollard:23:04
godbykChrisWoollard: run 'xelatex main'23:04
ChrisWoollardand just and i am running make on its own23:05
ChrisWoollardIt just stops half way with a ? prompt23:05
godbykChrisWoollard: it should give you an error message of some sort23:06
godbykalso, type 'H' and press Enter. it'll give you more info23:07
ChrisWoollardThe control sequence at the end of the top line of your error message was never \def'ed23:08
godbykso someone misspelled a \command.23:08
ChrisWoollardi'll paste again23:09
ChrisWoollardhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/43958223:10
godbykChrisWoollard: \Button should be \button (lowercase).23:10
ChrisWoollardis that in listening to audio?23:11
godbykChrisWoollard: default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex line 6323:12
ChrisWoollardi found it.23:13
ChrisWoollardi'll try again23:13
ChrisWoollardnow a different error. now a missing }23:14
ChrisWoollardlooks like the glossary23:15
godbykapparently people haven't been running 'make' before they commit. :)23:15
godbyk(despite my pleas for them to do so.)23:15
ChrisWoollardWell, I have to say. none of these errors were mine23:15
ChrisWoollard:)23:15
godbyk:)23:16
ChrisWoollardhow do i know which line the error is on?23:16
godbykIt says l.000 (where 000 is the line number)23:16
godbykat the beginning of the context lines (just above the ?)23:16
ChrisWoollardok, i think 1123:17
ChrisWoollardIs this where you usually bang your head against a wall?23:25
godbyktracking down all the typos that people make?23:25
ChrisWoollardyes23:25
godbykit's a bit irksome sometimes, but I've gotten pretty good at it.23:25
ChrisWoollardi now have another one23:25
godbykif you want to commit what you've fixed so far, I can try to fix the others for you real quick.23:26
ChrisWoollardi just did23:26
godbykthen maybe we'll institute a new rule that requires people to run 'make' before committing.23:26
ChrisWoollardAt least I have now had a crash course on debugging23:26
rickspencer3hey guys, when I start getting content for the developer manual, what format should I get the chapters in, and where should I store them?23:27
ChrisWoollardfixed another23:29
ChrisWoollardand commited23:29
ChrisWoollardI can't find the error in the glossary though23:30
godbykgah! damn you. :)23:31
ChrisWoollardsorry23:31
godbykuncommitting and recommitting now. :)23:31
godbykremaking. we'll see if they're all fixed now.23:32
ChrisWoollardNot touching anything until told to now :)23:32
godbyklooks like it compiled cleanly for me here.23:33
dutchiefor a DVCS, bzr is shocking at handling parallel commits23:33
dutchiemaybe we're Doing It Wrong23:34
godbykdutchie: yeah, I don't know if I'm using it wrong or what.23:34
godbykdutchie: but there's gotta be a better way.23:34
dutchiemy answer would be "git", but...23:34
godbykdutchie: I hate seeing the 'removed three revisions'-type messages when someone runs 'bzr 'merge'.23:34
ChrisWoollardhave you pushed?23:34
godbyknothing to push23:35
godbykI think you got them all23:35
dutchiei mean, no offence to the guys who built bzr, but git was written in C and perl by a bunch of kernel hackers23:35
dutchiewith beards23:35
godbykheh23:35
godbykI don't know enough to choose between the various VCSs.23:35
godbykI just wish they'd figure it out and tell me which one I should spend time learning.23:36
ChrisWoollardMine still doesn't build23:36
godbykas it is, I've had to learn enough about cvs, svn, bzr, and git to check code out and in.23:36
godbykrun 'bzr status' anything listed?23:36
ChrisWoollardapparently there is an issue in the glossary line 11.23:36
godbykChrisWoollard: otherwise, run 'make clean', then 'make'23:36
ChrisWoollardnothing lised23:37
dutchieright, bedtime23:38
ChrisWoollardYay23:38
dutchienight all23:38
ChrisWoollardit worked23:38
godbykdutchie: g'night.23:38
godbykChrisWoollard: great!23:38
ChrisWoollardI hope people don't break it again. That scared me a bit23:39

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