[06:03] <quickshotdevs> New news from manualplanet: Benjamin Humphrey: Brussels, beer, Ubuntu and boys taking a leak
[08:25] <ubuntujenkins> morning
[08:33] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey
[08:33] <ubuntujenkins> hello nisshh
[08:34] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: that ooa works great
[08:34] <nisshh> ppa
[08:35] <ubuntujenkins> that was the plan :P . So far we have no bugs with it I hope it stays like that
[08:47] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we add the ppa to the website?
[09:10] <ChrisWoollard_> I also agree. That ppa works a treat.
[09:40] <dutchie> problem #42 in making the bug form work: debian has bzr 1.5, launchpad requires bzr 1.16 to download branches
[10:29] <popey> dutchie: upgrade bzr?
[12:08] <dutchie> popey: yeah, going to have to
[12:12] <dutchie> stupid inferoior 2g connection
[12:36] <dutchie> bah
[12:36] <dutchie> no godbyk or daker :(
[12:39] <thorwil> dutchie: look on the bright side! i'm here and most likely totally useless regarding whatever you have on your mind or at hand ;)
[12:41] <dutchie> do you know if there is a 500/404 page used on u-m.org?
[12:41] <dutchie> that I canborow
[12:45] <thorwil> http://ubuntu-manual.org/thequeenisnotamused
[12:45] <thorwil> apparently the url is interpreted as far as possible, so you always get at least the home page :(
[14:28] <nisshh> godbyk: there is a guy asking on lp when the german version of e1 will be released, apparently its now fully translated on lp
[14:30] <nisshh> godbyk-android: ^^^
[15:27] <ChrisWoollard_> There have been a lot of bugs filed today against the manual!
[15:28] <dutchie> godbyk: CNAME bugs.ubuntu-manual.org to um-bugs.joshh.co.uk
[15:30] <ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard_: my inbox noticed :-)
[15:32] <ChrisWoollard_> It looks like a guy called Marc Stewart is reading the intire book and logging bugs as he goes. He is on page 36 at the moment. :)
[15:33] <ChrisWoollard_> i mean entire
[15:33] <ubuntujenkins> at least we will be very bug free
[15:34] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: your form asks for an e-mail. Where in the bug report does that go? will it not be traceable by bots?
[15:35] <ChrisWoollard_> Some of those bugs are tricky. He is really pushing my knowledge of english grammar. So much so that I have had to get a book out to help.
[15:37] <ubuntujenkins> I thought i would try and help. but then i looked at how complex they can be and decided my english is not up to it. I am a mechnical engineer we are better at maths
[15:41] <ubuntujenkins> be back later
[15:41] <ubuntujenkins> o/
[15:41] <ChrisWoollard_> I am going to spend my evening trying to make sense of some more. At least he is explaining his reasoning behind the changes.
[15:41] <ChrisWoollard_> See you
[15:51] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: it doesn't go anywhere yet
[15:52] <dutchie> i may remove it
[15:53] <dutchie> initially I just copied the fields from the spreadsheet
[15:53] <dutchie> now it's up, i can start to get some feeback
[15:53] <dutchie> +d
[15:54] <dutchie> just don't let humphreybc publicise it everywhere, as it's nowhere near ready
[15:55] <dutchie> right, hometime
[17:27] <ubuntujenkins>  dutchie message recived I will stop ben if i see someone tell him
[18:16] <godbyk> I'm home again.
[18:16] <godbyk> I'll take a look at the ubuntu-manual bugs in a moment.
[18:16] <godbyk> Going to have lunch first.
[18:54] <ChrisWoollard> There are lots
[18:55] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: No problem. I can usually blow through them pretty quickly.
[18:55] <godbyk> I'm fairly good at US English grammar.
[18:55] <godbyk> (And don't mind telling people that they're wrong.) :)
[18:57] <godbyk> is anyone else editing right now that I'll interfere with?
[18:58] <ChrisWoollard> Not at the moment. After I put my children to bed. I'll mark bugs as in progress if I am working on them.
[19:03] <godbyk> okay, cool.
[19:03] <nisshh> godbyk: let me know when you go through and hunt for glossary entries, no rush but id like to get a whole bunch more in there
[19:03] <godbyk> I'm gonna eat lunch real quick and then I'll dive in.
[19:03] <godbyk> nisshh: absolutely!
[19:03] <nisshh> cool
[19:03] <godbyk> nisshh: you might post a message to the list and ask people what they think should be in the glossary and index, too.  just so we have some ideas.
[19:04] <godbyk> nisshh: oh, and you shouldn't have self-referencing glossary entries.  don't use \gls{thisword} in the 'thisword' entry. (there's not much point.)
[19:04] <nisshh> godbyk: right, and since chapter 6 is no longer going to be in the manual after 10.10 i might take over the maintenance of the index
[19:04] <nisshh> godbyk: good point ill remove those tommorrow
[19:05] <godbyk> 'kay.
[19:05] <godbyk> we'll collect ideas for the index. I'll work with you on it a bit later.
[19:05] <godbyk> (it's easy; we just need to make sure we set some rules for consistency.)
[19:05] <nisshh> right, like we are doing for the rest of the manual
[19:05] <godbyk> yep
[19:06] <nisshh> ok, ill post to the ML in the morning
[19:06] <nisshh> my brain is starting to die now that its 2am
[19:07] <godbyk> heh.. no worries.
[19:07] <nisshh> anyways, ill cya in the morning probably, gnight!
[20:00] <godbyk> Okay, time to crush some bugs.
[20:14] <godbyk> Right now I'm just going through and assigning most of the grammar-related bugs to myself.  I'll start editing them in a little bit.
[20:18] <ChrisWoollard> I have also started working on bugs
[20:19] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: feel free to dive in. I've assigned a bunch of them to myself. (mostly the grammar and formatting bugs.)
[20:19] <godbyk> I have to send out a few emails, so I won't be stepping on your toes in bzr for a little while yet. :)
[20:20] <ChrisWoollard> As
[20:21] <ChrisWoollard> I am going to work on one thing at a time and mark in progress as I am going
[20:21] <ChrisWoollard> I am going to prop
[20:21] <ChrisWoollard> probably work on anything that isn't formatting
[20:23] <godbyk> okay.
[20:23] <godbyk> I think I stole most the formatting bugs, too.
[20:23] <godbyk> :)
[20:23] <dutchie> godbyk: did you do the CNAME?
[20:24] <godbyk> dutchie: uh, nope. where do you want me to point it?
[20:24] <dutchie> um-bugs.joshh.co.uk
[20:24] <dutchie> should be ready to go
[20:25] <godbyk> okay.
[20:25] <godbyk> setting it up now
[20:26] <dutchie> (you can observe it running at that address, too)
[20:27] <godbyk> I've added the CNAME record.
[20:27] <godbyk> It may take a moment for it to propagate to all the DNS servers, of course.
[20:28] <godbyk> But it looks like it's working here already.
[20:28] <godbyk> http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/
[20:28] <ubuntujenkins> works for me
[20:28] <Zeike> me too
[20:28] <godbyk> submitting a bug to test it. :)
[20:28] <godbyk> what's the story with staging.launchpad.net, anyway?
[20:29] <dutchie> testing purposes :)
[20:29] <godbyk> my bug: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/580292
[20:29] <dutchie> feedback?
[20:30]  * ubuntujenkins has a go
[20:30] <godbyk> I would probably set English and Spelling.. as the defaults for the dropdown lists.
[20:30] <godbyk> (the language in the end should default to the browser language, but we only have the english edition out so far.)
[20:30] <Zeike> Does anybody want to give this a quick look through and tell me what you think? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/439510/
[20:30] <godbyk> maybe add a note telling them where to find the revision number (bottom of the copyright page)
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> you can type letters in the number feild
[20:31] <godbyk> Zeike: what am I looking at?
[20:31] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: but if you click submit, it shouldn't let you
[20:31] <dutchie> godbyk: noted
[20:31] <godbyk> of course, we'll want to pretty up the formatting at some point, but I assume you're not asking about that. :)
[20:32] <dutchie> well, yeah, that too
[20:32] <Zeike> Its the file system section from the command line chapter.  Page 121
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: my bad had not got that far
[20:32] <godbyk> seems okay. was there anything we had on our google bug form that didn't transfer over?
[20:32] <godbyk> dutchie: ooh, could you have it do a lookup on the supplied page number to add the chapter name to the bug report, too?  makes it easier to find the bug on our end.
[20:33] <godbyk> (I realize it's variable depending on the revision, but it'll give us an idea.)
[20:33] <godbyk> (and it beats me grepping the .tex files for a phrase)
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> also the suggestion box doesn't show in the bug report or a i mad?
[20:34] <dutchie> godbyk: that sounds, er, fun
[20:34] <dutchie> i was going to add in a dupe finder based vaguely on what we have in the DB
[20:35] <dutchie> could just add in a "chapter" ox
[20:35] <dutchie> +b
[20:35] <godbyk> true. as long as it's not too much to ask of people. :)
[20:37] <dutchie> yeah
[20:37] <dutchie> could probably collapse some of those entries down a little
[20:38] <godbyk> default the revision entry to the current released edition of the translation/language they selected.
[20:38] <dutchie> hang on
[20:38] <dutchie> need to find somewhere to make notes
[20:42] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: i don't think i added the suggestion box to what shows up in LP, so no, you're not mad :)
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> hehe I think i may be mad any way :P
[20:44] <dutchie> entirely possible
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we update the website with the latex ppa?
[20:45]  * dutchie shares the todo doc with other @ubuntu-manual.org folks
[20:47] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you mean edit the text on the site?  sure. I'll add it to my list. :)
[20:47] <ubuntujenkins> cheers godbyk :)
[20:47] <dutchie> godbyk: know if there is an easy way to make it visible to UMP folks?
[20:47] <dutchie> (via google docs)
[20:48] <godbyk> dutchie: I'm not sure. other than sending a link.
[20:48] <godbyk> lemme see if it shows up in my list.
[20:48] <dutchie> i don't think it will
[20:49] <godbyk> gah.
[20:49] <godbyk> google's captcha's are the worst!
[20:49] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I have sent you the instructions to save you finding them on the mailing list
[20:50] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks
[20:51] <ubuntujenkins> thanks for doing it I have not looked into how to add stuff to the website yet. I need to sort out a quickshot one
[20:51] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah, it's not in the list.
[20:52] <godbyk> if you go to the sharing dialog, I think there's a 'share with all @ubuntu-manual.org users' checkbox or something.
[20:52] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no problem.
[20:52] <dutchie> i can't see one
[20:52] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: basically just edit a file and commit it. the server auto-pulls every so oftetn.
[20:52] <dutchie> i think that's because i created it with my normal @googlemail.com account
[20:52] <godbyk> ah, that's probably why.
[20:53] <dutchie> the accounts are linked together though
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yea i guessed but i need to make sure i do it correctly etc. I will add it to the list of stuff to do
[20:55] <ubuntujenkins> I have set myself a deadline of 30th of june to have devloped the manual program for maverick and the quickshot ui. I hope i can pull it off as I will not be able to start untill 21st
[20:55] <dutchie> right, that does it
[20:55] <godbyk> cool
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> I think lots of skype calls will be needed to say how wrong i have got it :)
[20:57] <ubuntujenkins> I like the input really
[20:57] <godbyk> I have to do some other work stuff for a bit (nothing exciting, unfortunately).  so I may be slow to respond. ping me if anyone needs me, though.
[20:59] <ubuntujenkins> whats the biggest skype call you can have?
[20:59] <dutchie> right, one todo list uploaded to docs.ubuntu-manual.org
[21:02] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: i can't see it :/
[21:03] <ubuntujenkins> its not on my list
[21:03] <dutchie> oh stupid thing
[21:04] <dutchie> say shared from me to Ubuntu Manual
[21:04] <dutchie> are you logged in with your @ubuntu-manual.org address?
[21:04] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[21:05] <dutchie> stupid slow safari
[21:06] <dutchie> it definitely says shared with everyone at ubuntu manual
[21:06] <ubuntujenkins> #blamep-o-p-e-y :P
[21:08] <dutchie> #blameubuntujenkins
[21:08] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[21:08] <dutchie> #blamegoogle
[21:09] <dutchie> http://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB
[21:09] <dutchie> does that work?
[21:09] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[21:10] <ubuntujenkins> strange
[21:10] <ubuntujenkins> and now its in my list
[21:11] <ubuntujenkins> thanks josh
[21:11] <dutchie> good good
[21:28] <ChrisWoollard> Can somebody give me their thoughts on bug #585484. Personally I think they are being picky. But i would like a 2nd / 3rd opinion.
[21:28] <dutchie> ooh, no manualbot
[21:29] <ubuntujenkins> #585484
[21:29] <godbyk> bug 545484
[21:29] <godbyk> ah, bummer.
[21:29] <godbyk> bad bots!
[21:29] <ubuntujenkins> #585484
[21:29] <ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/585484
[21:29] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 585484 in ubuntu-manual "Factual problem with sudo on page 123" [Undecided,New]
[21:30] <godbyk> yay, manualbot!
[21:30] <dutchie> really should get round to making manualbot start on boot
[21:32] <ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: Personally I agree with the bug reporter. If I hit alt+f2 and type sudo gedit i don't see the sudo promt. I need gksudo so that i can type in my password. It is picky but could be frustraing to a new user. just my humble opinion.
[21:32] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I would say that if the manual is introducing sudo, use sudo.
[21:33] <godbyk> I don't know that I run GUI apps using sudo..  I typically use it with command-line apps. But that's because I'm usually only running command-line apps.
[21:34] <dutchie> (note manualbot connects over ipv6 for extra geek points)
[21:36] <ChrisWoollard> By looking at the manual i get the impression that sudo is being run from the shell and not from Alt+F2. If it was Alt+F2 I would specify gksudo.
[21:37] <ChrisWoollard> from the shell it really doesn't matter.
[21:42] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. It has been decided. In this case it says as it is.
[21:43]  * dutchie can tell from humphreybc's experience of European steak that he has not been to Europe before
[21:43] <dutchie> "Ask for a medium steak, get a rare steak. Ask for a rare steak, get a live cow."
[21:45] <godbyk> The last time I ordered a "hamburger" in England, I got a Salisbury steak on a bun.
[21:45] <godbyk> Also, cuts of meat are different in Europe, I discovered (or at least Germany).
[21:46] <godbyk> It added an extra complication when I was trying to explain to the butcher what I wanted. (The first complication being that I don't speak German.)
[21:46] <ChrisWoollard> Where were you eating
[21:46] <godbyk> I don't recall now.
[21:46] <dutchie> what the hell is a Salisbury steak?
[21:46] <godbyk> I remember we were both reduced to pointing at body parts, though. :)
[21:47] <ChrisWoollard> A steak from Salisbury. Duh.
[21:47] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[21:47] <godbyk> dutchie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_steak  :)
[21:47] <godbyk> I think the only time I've seen the name, it's been on a TV dinner.
[21:47] <dutchie> stupid americans and your made-up words
[21:48] <godbyk> lol
[21:48] <godbyk> I wouldn't have guessed the etymology going back to a person's name. That's interesting.
[21:49] <godbyk> (Wikipedia teaches me so many new things each day.  It's wondrous!)
[21:49] <ChrisWoollard> To me that sounded English. BUt apparently not. That explains why I have never heard of it
[21:50] <godbyk> Yeah, I'd assumed it was named after Salisbury (the place), but knew it was likely a US thing.
[21:50] <godbyk> (It was too processed to have come from anywhere else. ;-))
[22:19] <ChrisWoollard> Godbyk: I think bug #584504 is one for you. It is an index entry appearing in the wrong place
[22:19] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 584504 in ubuntu-manual "erroneous entry at start of Index ie first entry of "CD/DVD Creator, 27"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584504
[22:19] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: fair enough. feel free to assign it to me.
[22:19] <ChrisWoollard> ok, will do
[22:39] <ChrisWoollard> I have a problem compiling the manual. It won't build anymore. It gets stuck half way
[22:40] <ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: please paste bin your error
[22:40] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: post the main.log file.
[22:44] <ubuntujenkins> he he I saw "later live with jools holland" and read it as "later live with josh holland"
[22:45] <ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439562
[22:45]  * dutchie is famous
[22:46] <ChrisWoollard> I don't think it was me that broke it.  I deleted my local branch and started again. It still didn't compile
[22:47] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: are you compiling the main US English version? 'cause that log file looks okay
[22:48] <ChrisWoollard> That is weird. in the terminal it said error 1
[22:49] <ChrisWoollard> I was doing the us english
[22:49] <ubuntujenkins> I am glad you say its ok kevin cos i thought so too. I thought i was missing the obvious
[22:49] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: paste the output around the Error 1 stuff.
[22:53]  * ubuntujenkins theres like 100 bug emails a day. We should be really bug free soon
[22:54] <ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439568
[22:54] <flan> Wishful thinking.
[22:56] <ubuntujenkins> hello flan, true it is wishfull thinking but i like to be positive about these things :)
[22:56] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[22:57] <dutchie> night ubuntujenkins
[22:57] <ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
[23:00] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: run: makeglossaries -L english main
[23:00] <godbyk> and tell me if it gives any errors
[23:00] <ChrisWoollard> ok, will do
[23:01] <flan> G'night, ubuntujenkins.
[23:01] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: and if that's okay, try: makeindex main
[23:02] <ChrisWoollard> no errors on either
[23:03] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: you're compiling the lucid-e2 branch, right?  and just running 'make' with no arguments?
[23:03] <ChrisWoollard> when i run make in the ubuntu-manual directory. It pauses about half way. Then i press enter and it continues
[23:04] <ChrisWoollard> I believe it is lucid-e2
[23:04] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard:
[23:04] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: run 'xelatex main'
[23:05] <ChrisWoollard> and just and i am running make on its own
[23:05] <ChrisWoollard> It just stops half way with a ? prompt
[23:06] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: it should give you an error message of some sort
[23:07] <godbyk> also, type 'H' and press Enter. it'll give you more info
[23:08] <ChrisWoollard> The control sequence at the end of the top line of your error message was never \def'ed
[23:08] <godbyk> so someone misspelled a \command.
[23:09] <ChrisWoollard> i'll paste again
[23:10] <ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439582
[23:10] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: \Button should be \button (lowercase).
[23:11] <ChrisWoollard> is that in listening to audio?
[23:12] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex line 63
[23:13] <ChrisWoollard> i found it.
[23:13] <ChrisWoollard> i'll try again
[23:14] <ChrisWoollard> now a different error. now a missing }
[23:15] <ChrisWoollard> looks like the glossary
[23:15] <godbyk> apparently people haven't been running 'make' before they commit. :)
[23:15] <godbyk> (despite my pleas for them to do so.)
[23:15] <ChrisWoollard> Well, I have to say. none of these errors were mine
[23:15] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[23:16] <godbyk> :)
[23:16] <ChrisWoollard> how do i know which line the error is on?
[23:16] <godbyk> It says l.000 (where 000 is the line number)
[23:16] <godbyk> at the beginning of the context lines (just above the ?)
[23:17] <ChrisWoollard> ok, i think 11
[23:25] <ChrisWoollard> Is this where you usually bang your head against a wall?
[23:25] <godbyk> tracking down all the typos that people make?
[23:25] <ChrisWoollard> yes
[23:25] <godbyk> it's a bit irksome sometimes, but I've gotten pretty good at it.
[23:25] <ChrisWoollard> i now have another one
[23:26] <godbyk> if you want to commit what you've fixed so far, I can try to fix the others for you real quick.
[23:26] <ChrisWoollard> i just did
[23:26] <godbyk> then maybe we'll institute a new rule that requires people to run 'make' before committing.
[23:26] <ChrisWoollard> At least I have now had a crash course on debugging
[23:27] <rickspencer3> hey guys, when I start getting content for the developer manual, what format should I get the chapters in, and where should I store them?
[23:29] <ChrisWoollard> fixed another
[23:29] <ChrisWoollard> and commited
[23:30] <ChrisWoollard> I can't find the error in the glossary though
[23:31] <godbyk> gah! damn you. :)
[23:31] <ChrisWoollard> sorry
[23:31] <godbyk> uncommitting and recommitting now. :)
[23:32] <godbyk> remaking. we'll see if they're all fixed now.
[23:32] <ChrisWoollard> Not touching anything until told to now :)
[23:33] <godbyk> looks like it compiled cleanly for me here.
[23:33] <dutchie> for a DVCS, bzr is shocking at handling parallel commits
[23:34] <dutchie> maybe we're Doing It Wrong
[23:34] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I don't know if I'm using it wrong or what.
[23:34] <godbyk> dutchie: but there's gotta be a better way.
[23:34] <dutchie> my answer would be "git", but...
[23:34] <godbyk> dutchie: I hate seeing the 'removed three revisions'-type messages when someone runs 'bzr 'merge'.
[23:34] <ChrisWoollard> have you pushed?
[23:35] <godbyk> nothing to push
[23:35] <godbyk> I think you got them all
[23:35] <dutchie> i mean, no offence to the guys who built bzr, but git was written in C and perl by a bunch of kernel hackers
[23:35] <dutchie> with beards
[23:35] <godbyk> heh
[23:35] <godbyk> I don't know enough to choose between the various VCSs.
[23:36] <godbyk> I just wish they'd figure it out and tell me which one I should spend time learning.
[23:36] <ChrisWoollard> Mine still doesn't build
[23:36] <godbyk> as it is, I've had to learn enough about cvs, svn, bzr, and git to check code out and in.
[23:36] <godbyk> run 'bzr status' anything listed?
[23:36] <ChrisWoollard> apparently there is an issue in the glossary line 11.
[23:36] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: otherwise, run 'make clean', then 'make'
[23:37] <ChrisWoollard> nothing lised
[23:38] <dutchie> right, bedtime
[23:38] <ChrisWoollard> Yay
[23:38] <dutchie> night all
[23:38] <ChrisWoollard> it worked
[23:38] <godbyk> dutchie: g'night.
[23:38] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: great!
[23:39] <ChrisWoollard> I hope people don't break it again. That scared me a bit