=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
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=== acerimmer_ is now known as acerimmer
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
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freeflyingmeeting today?11:02
freeflyingpersia: ^^11:04
sivajipersia: pm ?11:04
sivajifreeflying: can you pass on a message to persia ?11:08
lifelessfreeflying: yes, there is11:09
lifelessamachu pinged us11:09
lifelessnot sure when11:09
sivajiTell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting.11:10
freeflyingsivaji: seems persia is afk atm11:11
sivajiyou could tell him when he is here.11:13
freeflyingok, so we start?11:13
persiaSorry I'm late.11:24
lifelessso we're here11:29
lifeless22:10 < sivaji> Tell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting.11:29
persiaSaw that.11:30
persiaAre we quorate?  Were we waiting for me?  Who's charing?11:31
persiaRight, so since I'm late, and nobody else is chair, and neither of the aspirants are present, I'm adjourning the meeting.11:43
persiaI'll be unable to attend the next one, unfortunately.11:43
* persia updates the date on the wiki page for the early June meeting11:43
=== Auree is now known as umi
MootBotMeeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.13:59
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]13:59
NCommanderogra: GrueMaster: persia, dyfet, ping14:00
* GrueMaster wheezes, coughs, and sputters in.14:01
ograNCommander, you missed davidm :)14:01
davidmG'day all14:01
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010052514:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010052514:01
NCommanderogra: d'oh14:01
ogragrr, where is my spec gone14:01
NCommander[topic] Action Item Review14:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review14:02
* ogra tries to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root14:02
NCommander[topic] ogra to SRU bug #56873614:02
MootBotNew Topic:  ogra to SRU bug #56873614:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 568736 in netbook-meta (Ubuntu Maverick) "Having Evolution installed along with Desktop-Email is pointlessly redundant" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56873614:02
ograuploaded to proposed, seeds for lucid and maverick were changed14:02
NCommander[topic] NCommander to invite ndec to meeting14:03
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to invite ndec to meeting14:03
ogradid you ?14:03
persiaHe's not here14:03
NCommanderI poked him on IRC once or twice, but kept missing them14:03
persiaAnd he wasn7t on the ping list14:03
ograthere is that awesome thing called email14:03
ograheard about it ? :P14:03
NCommanderI'll c/o this14:04
NCommanderAlso a c/o on NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih14:04
NCommander[topic] Mobile team to have spec completed by next week14:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Mobile team to have spec completed by next week14:04
* NCommander has his done14:04
* ogra has one out of three done14:04
ogradavidm, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready to go14:05
ograi fail to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root and havent done https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl yet14:05
ograsomehow the ubuntu-arm team is shuffling everything around atm14:06
NCommander[topic] Standing Items14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items14:06
ogranothing on the workitem tracker yet14:07
ograNCommander make sure to have davidm make your specs valid for it14:07
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)14:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)14:08
NCommander[action] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker14:08
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker14:08
ogradid you invite mpoirier ?14:08
* NCommander didn'thave an action to14:09
ogracan you send out the two necessary invites today ?14:09
ograndec and mpoirier14:09
ograby mail14:09
NCommanderwill do14:10
ograso kernel status on omap4 is so-lala14:10
NCommandercooloney isn'taround :-/14:10
ograit works but i see bus errors if i do heavy compile jobs14:10
persiaInteresting traffic on the ubuntu-kernel mailing list.  Looks like we'll have *two* OMAP trees.14:10
ogracooloney is trying to upload the kernel to the canonical-arm-dev PPA atm14:11
ograpersia, we do14:11
ograone for omap3 and one for 414:11
ograNCommander, please test that kernel too asap14:11
persiaAre they both topic branches, or can we build the omap3 one from the linux source package?14:11
ograso we have more data points14:11
ograpersia, no idea, ask kernel team14:11
ograi think omap3 is supposed to be from mainline14:11
ograwith some cherrypicks from linux-omap14:12
ograomap4 is completely TI rebased against our tree14:12
persiaI thought omap4 was our tree rebased against TI's kernel14:12
ograother way round :)14:12
ograomap4 is TI rebasing their patchset against the maverick kernel14:13
* persia is confused by different contents from different sources, and hopes that someone will make it all clear in the future14:13
ograeasy :)14:13
ogra10.07 -> TI 2.6.32 with ubuntu configs14:13
ogra10.10 omap3 and 4 both against 2.6.35 ... omap3 built from mainline, omap4 TI rebased against out tree14:14
ograclearer ?14:14
NCommanderogra: mind if I move on?14:14
persiaNot in any way, because it failed to have any reference to the actual source packages, but that7s OK: the folks who can give me the answer I want aren7t here.14:15
ograwell, can you commit to do some omap4 kernel testing ?14:15
ograit would really help if more then one person does it14:15
* GrueMaster would but ENOHW.14:15
ograpersia, source is at omapzoom.org for the 10.07 and at kernel.ubuntu.com in git for 10.1014:16
NCommanderogra: sure, I'lltestmore kernels as well14:16
ogra(or at least its supposed to end up there)14:16
ograNCommander, thanks14:16
ogramove !! :)14:16
ograGrueMaster, well, you can test omap3 ... i think amitk had something for us14:16
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)14:17
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)14:17
ograask in #ubuntu-kernel or -arm14:17
ograGrueMaster, how is the SRU front looking ?14:17
GrueMasterqa status:  Currently working on internal infrastructure improvements and starting to test app builds this week.14:17
GrueMasterSRU front?14:17
ograthere are still a bunch of SRUs for lucid, no ?14:18
ograespecially for kernel stuff iirc14:18
GrueMasterI don't know.  All kernel issues from 10.04 were for platforms that are apparently not supported by us as of now.  Haven't heard from any kernel devs about any test kernels since prior to release.14:19
ograyou pointed at them last meeting14:19
ograGrueMaster, these platforms are supported for 18 months14:19
ograand you pointed out the SRUs yourself last meeting14:20
ograi.e. the eth0 issues on babbage14:20
GrueMasterI'll have to dig up the list again and see if anyone has moved on them.14:20
GrueMasterI know I haven't seen anything from the kernel team.14:20
ograif not we need to kick some butts :)14:20
ograright, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ?14:21
NCommandercan I move on, or are we waiting for an SRU list?14:21
ograi guess its all smb but i doubt he'll write the patches himself14:21
ograNCommander, an action :)14:21
ograthen move onm14:21
ograi'm happy to be in the action together with GrueMaster14:21
NCommander[action] GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid14:22
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid14:22
ogra<ogra> right, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ?14:22
ogra(that was initially to GrueMaster )14:22
ograbut you can action him to assemble a list too :)14:22
ograsince i only operate from the top of my head which isnt very reliable ;)14:23
NCommander[action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:23
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:23
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:23
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:23
NCommandertoolchain is no longer broken, but Qt is busted. Will review this failure this week and attempt to resolve, as this is breakinga lot fo rdepends14:24
ograyeah kde looks bad14:24
ograas usual14:24
ograand still libnih14:24
ograthat will get us bad days wrt images14:24
persiaAs usual?14:24
ograpersia, yeah14:24
NCommanderogra: its only broken cause Qt FTBFSed14:25
ograwe didnt have a cycle yet where kde/qt wasnt at least broken once14:25
NCommanderand that looks like a timeout14:25
NCommanderogra: yeah well, GNOME breaks itself as often, no?14:25
ograi saw the discussion with lamont in ubuntu-release14:25
NCommanderits broken right now!14:25
persiaLet's not have a toolkit war.14:25
persiaWe need both for the flavours built.14:25
ogralamont asked that the package gets a pinger mechanism14:26
persiaSo they need be fixed.  Moving on...14:26
ografor QT14:26
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:26
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:26
ograinstead of working around the timeout14:26
NCommandernothing new to add on my side14:26
ograso someone has to add such a mechanism14:26
* ogra points to #ubuntu-release around 22:00 UTC last night14:27
NCommanderogra: can you sum up for those who weren't there?14:27
ogra<lamont> ScottK: this early in the cycle, could we just fix the package please?14:27
ogra<ScottK> It's not clear what 'fix' would mean in it's current state since the dbg really takes that long to build.14:27
ogra<ScottK> We are promised qt4-x11 getting more modular, but it hasn't happened yet.14:27
ogra<lamont> something that makes sure we spit something out to stdout every 120 min or so, after verifying that the build is, in fact, progressing14:27
ogra<lamont> take a look at the compilers :-(14:27
ogra<ScottK> Sigh.14:27
ogra<lamont> ScottK: as in this is what I get for bending over and violating rules just to avoid rebuilding oo.o everywhere14:27
ograsorry ScottK ...14:27
ograso the request is to not add more timeout override handlers on the buildds but to fix the packages14:28
ograwe need some generic mechanism we can put on a wikipage for that i think14:28
* NCommander disagrees ...14:28
ografor people being hit by these timeouts14:28
ograNCommander, can you take that on with lamont ?14:29
NCommanderI hate the idea of patching a package so it builds just because its slow14:29
NCommanderwill do14:29
ograhe's the one to have to do that work all the time14:29
NCommander[action] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont14:29
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont14:29
NCommanderogra: anything else?14:29
NCommander(damn this meeting is goingby fast)14:29
ograso wrt image status14:29
ograhttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready14:29
ograNCommander, persia and me have workitems there14:29
ograplease everyone have a look and agree/disagree :)14:30
NCommanderogra: is that it?14:30
ograGrueMaster, we probably need a specific testing plan since the image operates totally different from what we know14:30
ograNCommander, yeah, any additions ?14:30
persiaWhy not combine the two livecd-rootfs tasks, or at least assign the same person?14:31
persiaAvoids handoff complexities.14:31
GrueMasterFrom a boot up standpoint it shouldn't be too different from live images.14:31
NCommanderJust that I'm slowing rolling along with d-cd changes14:31
ograpersia, well, i'd rather leave the jasper stuff in one hand14:31
ograGrueMaster, well, there is a lot that can go wrong with these images14:32
persiaogra: Also, I thought we were splitting the d-i vs. jasper stuff into two tasks, for scheduling reasons.14:32
GrueMasterOther than the initial setup that shouold run at first boot.14:32
ograbasically its not different from what casper does, but the results are more harmful if something fails14:32
ograpersia, d-i vs jasper ?14:32
persiaI'm still not entirely happy with the VFAT solution, but will withold detailed complaint until I can come up with something better.14:32
ograthere is no other solution14:33
persiaogra: my/your task.14:33
ograits a HW limitation14:33
persiaYou're addressing the wrong complaint :)  Wait until I have some alternate to propose, or ignore me :)14:33
ograpersia, ah, i dont know if the WI tracker will still pick it up, feel free to split it14:33
* persia tries14:33
ograi was inclined to add both of us in front14:33
GrueMasterogra: Why not add a testplan line to the blueprint and assign it to me.14:34
ograpersia, point is that the u-boot versions we currently have can only read fat14:34
ograGrueMaster, would you work out a testplan based on the spec ?14:34
persiaGrueMaster: I'm done editing: your turn :)14:34
NCommanderogra: persia: please take it offline, then come back?14:34
ogralike "check that the blah worked by looking at blupp"14:34
GrueMasterI can.  NCommander:  AR time.14:34
persiaNCommander: Please.14:34
NCommanderpersia: please what?14:35
ograrandom expression of politeness ? :)14:35
NCommanderworks me14:35
ograworks you eh ? :)14:35
* ogra grins14:36
NCommanderworks for me14:36
* NCommander needs more sleep14:36
NCommanderwhich brings me to14:36
NCommander[topic] Meeting Time14:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Meeting Time14:36
ograanyway nothing else from me for images14:36
ograi think davidm started a discussion by mail about that one14:36
NCommanderthere's no real better time unless either ogra or persia is willing to be shafted with an ungoldly meeting hour.14:36
NCommanderogra: I didn't see an email14:36
* ogra did14:36
NCommanderugh, must not be awake enough to remember it14:37
ograsubject: Team meeting times14:37
NCommanderI remember that14:37
ogranobody spoke up14:37
ograso i guess we'll stay at what we have14:37
NCommanderAnyway, to sum up, there's no real better thime for this unfortunately, so meeting time is unmoved14:37
ograits a week old14:37
NCommander[topic] AOB14:37
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB14:37
GrueMastergee, thanks guys.14:38
persiaIs there really no better time?14:38
ograGrueMaster, ?14:38
GrueMaster6am here.14:38
NCommanderJust one thing folks; please remember to post your ARs for previous weeks and such.14:38
persiaI'd be really happy to shift it by ~12 hours.14:38
ograpersia, dunno, nobody answered davids mail14:38
* NCommander would be happy by ~12 hour shift, but I thought that put ogra at a poor time14:38
ograGrueMaster, ^^^14:38
ogralets keep it on that mail14:39
ograand revisit next week14:39
NCommander[action] Entire team to respond to davidm's email14:39
MootBotACTION received:  Entire team to respond to davidm's email14:39
GrueMasterfair enough.14:39
* persia tends to be more flexible than most, so leaves the decision to others14:39
NCommanderanything else, or can I close out the meeting14:39
NCommandergoing once14:39
NCommandergood night folks14:40
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:40.14:40
NCommander(its nice when we finish early)14:40
PendulumNCommander: can I PM you about something quickly?14:43
* persia frantically edits the wiki faster15:58
* micahg waves16:00
persiasoren: nixternal: geser: stgraber: cody-somerville: ?16:00
* stgraber waves16:01
nixternalperfect timing ey? i must have accidentally shut off my server last night16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is persia.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda16:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda16:01
persia[TOPIC] Action Item Review16:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review16:02
persiacjwatson to add PPU stuff in LP for Sylvestre Ledru, Scott Moser, Rodney Dawes, and Chad Miller16:02
persiacjwatson to create ubuntu-kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to Ubuntu kernel packages.16:02
cjwatsonnot done16:02
persiacody-somerville to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first16:03
* persia moves on, considering Administrative Matters later16:03
persia[TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona16:04
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Application for Artur Rona16:04
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication16:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication16:04
AnAntDMB ? now ?16:05
highvoltageAnAnt: yup16:05
AnAntI thought there was still an hour16:05
cjwatsonKeybuk: hmm?16:05
cjwatsonI don't see ari-tczew here, nor on #ubuntu-devel16:05
Keybukcjwatson: hilight attack16:05
cjwatsondo we know if he's intending to be here today?16:05
persiaNor does NickServ have a current record.16:05
cjwatsonKeybuk: uh, ok16:05
micahghe said because of flooding he might have an issue being here16:06
nixternalcjwatson: I would think so, since he was a bit unpatient last time..figured he would be here16:06
AnAntis it 14:00 UTC now ?16:06
nixternal15:00 UTC16:06
Keybukcjwatson: have the volume *WAY UP* because someone didn't sit near the microphone (not you, this time) - and just got deafened by the BONG!16:06
cjwatsonwell, we promised to process him first, but why don't we deal with other applications and then deal with his as soon as (if) he arrives?16:06
persiaSo, let's defer ari-tczew for now, giving him priority if he appears, as agreed last time.16:06
micahg(03:04:42 PM) ari-tczew: geser: I could be late for tomorrow's meeting, because we have flood in country and can be public communication problems.16:06
persia[TOPIC] Administrative matters16:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Administrative matters16:07
persia[TOPIC] Meeting Structure16:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Meeting Structure16:07
cody-somervilleI thought the meeting was suppose to be an hour ago.16:07
micahgthe fridge said 14:00, the wiki said 15:0016:08
AnAntoh yes, it should have been an hour ago, I mis-calculated16:08
persiaSo, we've talked about how the current structure doesn't always let us get to everyone, and some folks (especiall coredev apps) get shunted, perhaps for many weeks.16:08
cjwatsongoogle calendar persistently gets it wrong, probably hence the fridge as well16:08
* barry went by the wiki time16:08
nixternalyeah, the fridge doesn't understand how to tell time16:08
AnAntwell, I'm lucky to arrive on time (by accident !)16:08
persiaThe fridge is broken by DST.  Complain to your governments.  Abolish the practice.16:08
nixternalthe fridge is an epic fail after time changes16:08
cjwatsonI think we've been spending too long on administrative matters at the start of each meeting ;-)16:08
AnAntari-tczew is here16:08
cjwatsonah, excellent16:09
* ari-tczew is present16:09
* nixternal agrees with cjwatson 16:09
cody-somervilleThe fridge isn't broken by DST.16:09
persiaRight, let7s go back to ari-tczew's app then.16:09
persia[TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona16:09
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Application for Artur Rona16:09
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication16:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication16:09
persiaari-tczew: Hey.  How are you today?16:09
ari-tczewHello, my name is Artur, I live in Tczew, Poland. I am studying logistics.16:09
ari-tczewpersia: I'm fine and tired after work. and you?16:09
ari-tczewI contribute to Ubuntu (development) since March 2009. I work on merges and syncs, because I like to order, I work on reduce delta between Debian and Ubuntu packages. I work on requested SRUs and security uploads, because I think that these sectors are orphaned.16:10
cjwatson(I guess people are reading)16:12
persiaari-tczew: A number of the commentors on your application have indicated that they'd like to see you also do more work in other areas.  Have you and recent examples of bugfixes you discovered, or patches submitted to Debian to reduce the need to merge in the future?16:13
cjwatsonso, it's good to see lots of security and merge contributions; these are areas a lot of people get bored of, and it's good to see somebody picking up lots of work there16:13
cjwatsonI'm pleased to see comments from the security team16:13
ari-tczewyea, last patch to Debian was junitperf16:14
ari-tczewnow junitperf is Ubuntu = Debian16:14
persiaOh, excellent!16:14
ari-tczewand if I see that package is fakesynced, then I'll look for new upstream release and submit bug to Debian16:14
ari-tczewlike I did with lash package.16:15
nixternalari-tczew: I see a couple of comments regarding patience which seems you haven't had in previous situations, what are you doing to fix this issue and do you think it has gotten better?16:15
persiaYeah, lash is a special sort of mess :)16:16
ari-tczewnixternal: do you mean issue as my patience?16:16
cjwatsonI'm concerned by your response to Iain Lane's comment; it comes across as very hostile to me, even if Iain's comment wasn't entirely accurate, and in particular I don't like to see responses like "But how about you? How many packages have you done sponsored?" in response to criticism; is this a language barrier thing (which I understand is a lot harder for those for whom English isn't a native language), or do you think ...16:17
cjwatson... it's something you need to work on?  I feel it's important for Ubuntu members to consider criticism they receive, although I know it can be difficult16:17
nixternal"Also, I still remember him being upset because he wasn't able to find available sponsors for Main. He should be more patient (even a MOTU needs to be patient sometimes  )"  <- that is a comment from your application16:17
nixternalcjwatson: +1 - however it seemed a bit defensive more so than hostile16:17
cjwatsonmaybe that's a better word16:17
* ari-tczew is reading, translating and writing answer, please wait16:18
ari-tczewnixternal that's right, my answer to Laney 's comment is defensive - only constructive 'discussion'16:20
ari-tczewheh, patience is a part of heavy character16:21
ari-tczewI'll try be more patient16:21
cjwatsonmay I respectfully suggest that "so I think that Iain Lane can't be a MOTU, because he doesn't have done a lot of security issues" (I know it was meant to be exaggeration to show a point) escalates the argument rather than trying to solve it?16:21
cjwatsonI've probably done the same thing myself on occasion, but I do think it's worth mentioning and trying to avoid16:22
ari-tczewcjwatson: solve what?16:22
cjwatsonIain is making some criticisms of you, which he's entitled to do (there's no point in an application process with review from other people if all the review is obliged to be positive).  He may or may not be correct about all of it, and there's certainly no problem about disputing cases where you feel he's incorrect; in other cases perhaps the criticisms are ones you should be thinking about and taking on board (as you ...16:25
cjwatson... seem to be doing here in response to nixternal's question).  But I think turning it around in a way that looks like you're attacking Iain is stepping over the line16:25
cjwatsonfor example :-), although I don't agree with you that our failure to deal with your application last meeting was a sign of disrespect, I do think it was bad form and we should try to do better16:26
cjwatsonif you see what I mean - there's no need to make things personal16:26
CaesarDid I make it in time for the DMB?16:28
persiaCaesar: yes16:28
ari-tczewCaesar: be patient :D16:28
CaesarPhew, overslept, sorry16:28
cjwatsonpatient> *grin*16:29
nixternalari-tczew: on to technical matters...there seems to have been a few problems with your sync/merges in the past....what have you been doing to improve your packaging and error checking so you don't experience these same issues in the future?16:29
persiaari-tczew: Just to make sure, you're preparing an answer for cjwatson, yes?16:30
ari-tczewcjwatson: as I said: you (as DMB team) had 13 days for manage some minutes on meeting for me. 2 hours wasn't enough... sorry, but I still think that this is disrespect for my and my time16:31
* nixternal needs to be patient this morning...the grumpy old man syndrome is kicking in with phone calls16:31
persiaari-tczew: For the implementation of QuickResponse, how would you suggest we encourage developers to focus more on sponsoring, rather than their work-of-interest that drew them to Ubuntu initially?16:31
cjwatsonari-tczew: I think there are definitely things we need to improve; you're entitled to your opinion of course16:32
nixternalif it was disrespect, it wasn't blatant, however i do not feel it was disrespectful. you have to remember, we are volunteers (well most of us), and we have lives outside of this. we try to get as much done in the time we have16:32
nixternaltoday's weather is gorgeous, i am 100% volunteer, and if someone called and said, "Hey, let's go do a bike ride." I am out of here :)16:33
ari-tczewnixternal: heh, if I did mistake in packaging, sponsor comment on bug or tell me on irc what I did wrong, then I'll read on wiki about it and I'll not do this same bug in future16:33
* ari-tczew is preparing answer for persia16:34
ari-tczewpersia: so, generally provide a sponsors statistics - it would be easier now with syncpackage script (thanks to bdrung)16:35
persiaYou mean keep track of how much sponsoring is done by each person?  We do that now, and publish the top folks on the Hall of Fame page.16:36
persiaOr do you mean something richer?16:36
cjwatsonmm, I really hope that we can just fix the silly remaining problems in LP that mean we can't do this via the LP API, but I don't think I really have much of a leg to stand on in objecting to syncpackage since this has been pending for so long16:36
cjwatson(this> syncs)16:36
persiacjwatson: It's really close.16:36
cjwatsonasymptotically :-)16:37
ari-tczewpersia: hmm, current hall-of-fame is counting sync sponsorship?16:37
persiaari-tczew: Should be, if the syncs are processed according to the documentation.16:38
* persia is done with questions16:38
ari-tczewI think about statistics - count from area "Sponsored by:" because with old sync sponsorship procedure, this area wasn't exist16:38
ari-tczewcurrent script syncpackage gives this area16:39
cjwatsonI have no more questions16:40
stgraberI'm good with what I saw in the backlog (sorry, was only half around)16:40
persianixternal: geser: cody-somerville: soren: ?16:40
geserno questions (but I missed too much of the discussion and irclogs.u.c doesn't have it yet)16:41
ari-tczewin addition, would be nice a statistics who and how many packages has uploaded in $release16:41
cody-somervilleno questions16:42
nixternalnone here16:42
persia[VOTE] Artur Rona to be confirmed as MOTU16:42
MootBotPlease vote on:  Artur Rona to be confirmed as MOTU.16:42
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot16:42
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting16:42
persia-1: I'd like to see endorsements rather than just comments from the security team *OR* more of the active endorsers not citing so many specific examples of things gone wrong.  I think you're close, but not quite there yet.16:43
nixternal+0 - patience! patience! patience! :)  work on communication and I think you will be golden - and what persia just said16:44
MootBotAbstention received from nixternal. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 016:44
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 016:44
cjwatson+1 - I was concerned before the meeting, but I think you've addressed most of my concerns in response to questions, and you've certainly been putting in plenty of work16:45
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 116:45
cody-somervillepersia, Your vote wasn't counted.16:46
persiaOops.  colon too close to vote.16:46
MootBot-1 received from persia. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 016:46
MootBotAbstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 016:46
MootBotAbstention received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 016:47
MootBotFinal result is 1 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: 016:47
ari-tczewbut what about Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application ? Artur Rona (if MOTU Application will be rejected)16:47
persiaari-tczew requested to apply for Ubuntu Contributing Developer if not confirmed, so starting that vote now.16:47
persia[VOTE] Artur Rona to be confirmed as Ubuntu Contributing Developer16:48
MootBotPlease vote on:  Artur Rona to be confirmed as Ubuntu Contributing Developer.16:48
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot16:48
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting16:48
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 116:48
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 216:48
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 316:48
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 316:48
persia+1 : Lots of activity, good integration with other developers.  Could benefit from patience, but well aware.16:48
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 416:48
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 516:48
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 516:49
ari-tczewso what I have to do for become a MOTU?16:49
persiaari-tczew: I'd recommend addressing the comments made in the vote.  I'm happy to work with you offline to review status at any point.16:50
persiaSo, moving on through the agenda:16:51
persia[TOPIC] Administrative matters16:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Administrative matters16:51
persia[TOPIC] Meeting Structure16:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Meeting Structure16:51
persiaSo, we spend too much time on admin matters at the beginning of the meeting, and have a poor sorting order for applicants.16:51
persiaI propose we do admin stuff last, and process applicants in a first-come-first-reviewed queue.16:51
persiaOther proposals?  Consensus?  Shall we vote?16:52
cjwatsonyes, I also propose that we prefer to do admin stuff by mail where it doesn't get in people's way16:52
geser+1 on FIFO on applications16:52
nixternalpersia: we could do applicants like the RMB's do16:52
nixternalfirst-come, first-serve16:52
persianixternal: That's essentially my proposal :)16:53
nixternal+1 on that then :)16:53
nixternallet's vote on that puppy16:53
cody-somervilleI feel we should process core-dev, motu, universe contributors, and then PPU requests.16:53
nixternalwhy that order?16:53
persiaAh, disagreement.  OK voting then.16:53
cjwatsoncore-dev tend to be the people who've put most effort in16:54
cjwatsonI guess?16:54
cody-somervilleBecause approving a core-dev will provide the most benefit to Ubuntu and requires the highest level of evaluation and critique. I don't want to be fatigued from the meeting when evaluating a core-dev application.16:54
cody-somervillecjwatson, aye16:54
cjwatsonI tend to agree with Cody; this is the other way round from our prior agenda16:55
cjwatsonbut I think it should be FIFO within that.  We're probably somewhat dependent on the honour system when people edit the wiki16:55
* cody-somerville nods.16:55
nixternali know there is a hierarchy in the background, however i don't like distinguishing it publically...i think everyone provides the most benefit, no matter what they are applying for16:55
nixternali think first-come, first-serve is the most fair of options16:55
cody-somervilleThis isn't about being 100% fair.16:55
geserand I don't like making it unpredictable for PPU applicants when they get processed16:56
nixternali don't think it should be about position in the community either, seems to show a bit of favortism in my eyes16:56
persiaIf we're doing an order, I'd prefer packagesets, core-dev, all uploaders, contributing developers16:56
geserand I don't agree in that sorting that PPU comes after UUC16:56
cody-somervilleThis isn't about favortism. This is about prioritizing our time.16:56
cjwatsonerr, yes, I agree with geser's most recent point (PPU should be before UUC)16:57
persiaTo me PPU isn't any different from foo-dev (including MOTU)16:57
macogeser: potential for resource starvation?16:57
nixternalif it is about prioritizing time, i think ppu and contribs should go first, since they are usually the easiest and fastest to process16:57
nixternalor we jsut do roshambo16:58
persiaSo because we spend too much time on admin matters, I'm going to run some votes, quick like.16:58
cody-somervilleIf someone is fit to be core-dev, we should prioritize giving them that access because they will tend to, based off of the criteria for core-dev, provide the greatest benefit to the project. We shouldn't hold them up because we're busy approving drive by developers.16:58
nixternalor rock-scissors-paper for those who aren't groovy like me :p16:58
persia[VOTE] DMB shall switch from per-class order to first-come-first-reviewed order16:58
MootBotPlease vote on:  DMB shall switch from per-class order to first-come-first-reviewed order.16:58
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot16:58
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting16:58
MootBot-1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -116:58
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 016:58
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 116:58
persia-1 : Based on discussion I like per-class more and more16:58
MootBot-1 received from persia. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 016:58
nixternalshite, I meant to do -1 :/16:59
MootBot-1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -116:59
nixternalI was with persia's thinking as well...i just had to poke and prod to be persuaded16:59
persiaOK.  motion can't pass at this point.17:00
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -117:00
persiaNow, for orders.17:00
cjwatsonPPU and contribs go first> this worked quite badly last time round, I think17:00
persia[VOTE] DMB should keep the current per-class order17:00
MootBotPlease vote on:  DMB should keep the current per-class order.17:00
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot17:00
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting17:00
cjwatsonalthough hard cases make bad law and all that17:00
MootBot-1 received from cjwatson. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -117:00
persia-1 : PPU+contribs first is working badly17:00
MootBot-1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -217:00
MootBot-1 received from persia. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -317:00
MootBot-1 received from nixternal. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -417:00
MootBotAbstention received from geser. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -417:00
persiamotion cannot pass.17:00
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -417:00
* persia , being chair, picks his version first17:01
persia[VOTE] DMB shall switch to packageset approvals, core-dev approvals, all uploader approvals (MOTU, PPU, cli-mono-dev, etc.), contributing dev approvals17:01
nixternaloh, this isn't going to be fun, I can tell that already17:01
MootBotPlease vote on:  DMB shall switch to packageset approvals, core-dev approvals, all uploader approvals (MOTU, PPU, cli-mono-dev, etc.), contributing dev approvals.17:01
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot17:01
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting17:01
persia+1 : it7s mine :)17:01
MootBot+1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 117:01
MootBotAbstention received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 117:02
cody-somerville+0 : Undecided.17:02
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 117:02
nixternal+1 : ok, i can see how this will be beneficial17:02
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 217:02
MootBotAbstention received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 217:03
persiamotion cannot pass with current attendees17:03
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 217:03
persiaThis will go to mail, and we'll have a good order next time.17:04
geserwhat about an upper limit of applications per meeting? we seem to be only able to handle 4-5 applications in one meeting (10-15 min on average)17:04
persiageser: Sounds good, but let's continue by mail, as we don't have consensus (and we7re already into the second hour)17:04
persia[TOPIC] Mozilla Uploaders Package Set17:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Mozilla Uploaders Package Set17:05
persiamicahg: Do you have a link for us to review?17:05
persia[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html17:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html17:05
* persia has no questions about this set17:06
geserpersia: did "Voting procedures" got also moved to mail?17:06
persiageser: OOps!  I'll hit that next (before we clear admin matters).  Thanks.17:07
micahgcjwatson: it's a xul rdepend in universe17:07
nixternalisn't there a team working on eclipse uploads already?17:07
micahgcjwatson: if it goes to main, I would say to remove it17:07
persianixternal: The Java team does most of them, but there have been some special xul-related changes over time.17:08
persia(as the Java team works almost exclusively in Debian, and relies mostly on syncs)17:10
persiaIs everyone still reviewing the list?  Are there more questions?17:11
nixternalno more questions17:12
cjwatsonI have no further questions on the list17:12
persiamicahg: In addition to the request for this team, this change would make you an Ubuntu Developer: have you prepared any support for such an application?17:13
micahgpersia: no, I haven't17:13
micahgbut some of my sponsors are in here17:13
nixternalyou need to get to it then, don't make me walk down to your office and give you a smackin' too :)17:13
* chrisccoulson waves17:14
persiaProcedurally, I think we'd want the DMB to be the owner of the team, and process approvals.17:14
micahgpersia: yes, I was going to transfer that17:14
persiaI'd like to separate packageset from micahg's development status: anyone object?17:15
* micahg is fine with that17:15
cjwatsonfine by me17:16
persia[VOTE] Creation of a Mozilla Package set with a set of developers to be administered by the DMB17:16
MootBotPlease vote on:  Creation of a Mozilla Package set with a set of developers to be administered by the DMB.17:16
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot17:16
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting17:16
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 117:16
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 217:16
persia+1 : It's basically already there in practice17:16
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 317:16
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 417:18
persiacody-somerville: stgraber ?17:18
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 517:19
nixternali have to let the dogs out...I will be back in like 5 minutes17:20
* persia times out waiting17:21
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 517:21
barrynixternal: who let the dogs out?17:21
persiamicahg: Do you want to be considered later in today's agenda (time permitting), or make an application for next time?17:21
micahgpersia: next time I think17:22
persia[TOPIC] Voting Procedures17:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Voting Procedures17:22
highvoltagepersia: tumbleweed is (probably still) afk for a little while, I know he'd like to be considered today (time permitting)17:22
persiaIt was raised that it can be very stressful being voted on directly live in an IRC session, and that the nature of a time-pressured meeting may make the DMB unable to give a considered recommendation to a deferred applicant.17:23
* tumbleweed is (mostly) back17:23
persiaOne proposal to address this would be to not have the voting inline at the meeting, but rather ask the questions, and vote via the mailing list, preparing a decision and recommendation for each candidate by the following meeting.17:23
geserdo we get enough votes for the next meeting based on the expierence with email votes in MC and the few deferred votes in DMB?17:25
persiaBased on that experience, I'd say no, although we could certainly try to be better about that.17:26
cjwatsondual-running between email and IRC is difficult17:26
cjwatsonwhen it's primarily one or the other it works better I think17:26
persiaPrimary email worked well as long as folks were actually voting.  At some point, the members of the MC stopped voting in a timely manner.  I'm unsure whether that behaviour would carry to the members of the DMB.17:27
persiaOne advantage of primary email is that it7s asynchronous nature tends to reduce the perception of "not getting to folks".17:27
nixternalok, back17:27
nixternaldid the world end? it is so quiet for a meeting right now17:30
persiaOK.  I'm not seeing significant discussion, and I don't think there's a clear answer.17:30
cjwatsonperhaps we can vote on it by e-mail ;-)17:30
persiaLet's discuss via email.17:30
persiaAnd now to the actual applications :)17:31
* geser hopes to see a real discussion and not only one or two emails17:31
persiaFirst up: barry: my apologies for not noticing earlier, but I'd like to ask you to wait for the next meeting, due to not having had a very long perio of peer review for your application (added to wiki 22nd may, no devel-permissions post)17:32
persiaWould that be acceptable to you?17:32
barrypersia: not a problem at all!17:32
persiaThanks, and sorry for not noticing earlier.17:33
barryno worries.  i knew i was cutting it short, but was feeling optimistic :)17:33
geserwas no email sent or is it in the moderation queue?17:33
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock17:33
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock17:33
* micahg apologizes, but has to duck out and thanks the DMB for their time17:33
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication17:33
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication17:33
barrygeser: i'm fairly certain i sent an email.  never heard back though17:33
persiaCaesar: Still about?17:33
cjwatsongeser: there was nothing in the moderation queue today17:34
persiaOK.  Skipping ahead (we'll come back if Caesar reappears)17:36
persiaAnAnt: You still about?17:36
AnAntbut I'm sorry that I'll have to leave after 10 mins17:36
geserbarry: hmm, then it seems to get lost somewhere as it isn't on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/thread.html either. Could you resend it?17:36
persia[TOPIC] MOTU Application for Ahmed El-Mahmoudy17:37
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Application for Ahmed El-Mahmoudy17:37
* persia apologises for the copy&paste issues limiting correct typography17:37
=== dmart_ is now known as dmart
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/أحمد المحمودي/MOTUApplication17:37
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/#-E/ 'DE-EH/J/MOTUApplication17:37
barrygeser: will do17:37
AnAntthe link by MootBot won't work17:38
cjwatsonAnAnt: there was a controversial sl-modem bug I saw going past in e-mail; I mostly ignored it at the time :-), but could you give us your take on that?17:38
AnAntthis might work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%8A/MOTUApplication17:38
AnAntcjwatson: yes, there is a problem in upstream itself17:39
cjwatsonyay for WTF-817:39
AnAntthere is no upstream development17:39
AnAntthey're doing their best & they just accept patches17:39
AnAntthey = guys @ linmodems.org17:40
barrygeser: resent.  i'm heading to lunch now tho.  see you next week :)17:40
AnAntalso there might have mistakes from my side regarding the specific bug you mentioned17:40
persiabarry: Two weeks :)17:41
AnAntfor example I would prepare the package on intrepid (because that is the system I am using), to fix a bug in karmic17:41
cjwatsonright, that's the part I'm most interested in your comments on, I realise that sometimes we're stuck with a mostly-inactive upstream - it's a fact of life sometimes17:41
AnAntyet dkms in karmic had a change that made the package break (& I didn't know until the bug reporter told me about that)17:41
AnAntanother thing (if I recall correctly) is that the package used to use module-assistant, hence a package that is not really maintained by developers used to exist on systems that installed old packages of sl-modem17:43
AnAntor maybe that wasn't the issue17:43
AnAntbut I cannot put all the blame on myself17:44
AnAnta package on PPA is not really guaranteed to work, and I am asking the reporter to try it17:44
AnAntsorry if I forgot some details (that has been months ago)17:45
barrypersia: two weeks: ack17:45
AnAntbut I agree with Rolf that I shouldn't have closed the bug17:45
AnAntbut rather set its status as incomplete17:45
AnAntnothing else to say I suppose17:46
cjwatsonfair enough, I'm happy with that answer17:46
persiaOther questions quick?  We're at the 10 minute boundary, so we either need to finish this next time, or decide we can vote.17:46
nixternalnothing here17:47
cjwatsonI have no further questions17:47
persiacody-somerville: stgraber geser ?17:47
cody-somervilleone second17:48
cody-somervilleokay, read17:49
persiacody-somerville: Are you comfortable voting?17:49
persia[VOTE] Confirm Ahmed El-Mahmoudy as MOTU17:50
MootBotPlease vote on:  Confirm Ahmed El-Mahmoudy as MOTU.17:50
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot17:50
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting17:50
persia+1 : my main concern with this application is that I failed to arrange time to add an endorsement prior to it making the agenda17:50
MootBot+1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 117:50
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 217:50
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 317:50
cjwatson+1 - good endorsements, good answer to my question, my personal experience doesn't suggest anything to worry about17:51
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 417:51
Caesarpersia: sorry, child responsibilities, back now17:51
cody-somerville+1 - good endorsements, reviewed changes look good, etc.17:51
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 517:51
persiastgraber: ?17:51
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 517:52
persiaCaesar: We're tight on time, please forgive us if we don't finish (there's another meting coming)17:53
persiabefore we start that, could I ask for a volunteer to chair next time?17:53
AnAntwell, thanks17:53
Caesarpersia: I can live with a deferral17:53
AnAntI've really got to run now17:53
* persia will not be able to attend, being on holiday17:53
cjwatsonI can chair17:53
persiacjwatson: Thanks.17:54
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock17:54
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock17:54
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication17:54
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication17:54
CaesarI may have misunderstood the totem pole. If I can upgrade to MOTU without being a huge pain in the arse...17:54
CaesarOtherwise I'll run with what I've got here now, and go for MOTU later17:55
persiaI'm not convinced we have time for MOTU at all.17:55
CaesarStick with what we've got17:55
cjwatsonyou can but the pro-forma for MOTU applications usually involves rather more extensive documentation, so I think it would be best to go with what we've got17:55
CaesarYeah no worries17:55
cjwatsonI have no questions here anyway17:55
CaesarI can upgrade to MOTU at another time17:55
persiaCaesar: In your "What I like least about Ubuntu" statement, you suggest that other decisions ought be made for LTSs.  Do you have any specific suggestsions?17:56
geserCaesar: I hope I sorted your application correctly, as the title was a little bit confusing17:56
persiaOr rather, suggestions for a process that helps ensure that goal?17:56
nixternalyeah, no questions here really... I guess I have always assumed you were already a MOTU or more17:56
Caesargeser: I was a little confused about what a Contributing Developer was17:56
CaesarI thought that was a rebadged MOTU at the time17:57
Caesarpersia: I think just slightly more conservatism at the time that blueprints are accepted for the LTS release?17:57
Caesarcjwatson: right, I read that17:57
cjwatsonstill requires sponsorship, but confers membership, essentially17:58
CaesarI think the "continue with sponsored uploads" bit had me slightly confused17:58
persiaOK.  Starting a vote: please vote +0 if you have more questions (as we're out of time)17:58
cjwatsonI would be happy to discuss conservatism or otherwise over a beer or something :)17:58
cjwatsonI don't think we really need to dig into it at this point17:58
Caesarcjwatson: if I ever make another UDS :-\17:58
persia[VOTE] Confirm Andrew Pollock as a Contributing Developer17:59
MootBotPlease vote on:  Confirm Andrew Pollock as a Contributing Developer.17:59
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot17:59
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting17:59
MootBot+1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 117:59
cjwatsonCaesar: dependents, huh?17:59
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 217:59
persia+1 : Caesar has been around (and helpfully so) for a very long time17:59
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 317:59
Caesarcjwatson: that and I'm not working on Goobuntu any more17:59
MootBot+1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 417:59
persiacody-somerville: stgraber: ?17:59
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 517:59
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 518:00
persiaout of time18:00
CaesarWoot. Thanks guys18:00
persiaAnAnt, Caesar: Congratulations.18:00
nixternalcongrats and welcome! \o/18:00
persiacjwatson: Please accept an action to set up the mozillla package set.18:00
nixternalis it time for a beer yet?18:00
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:00.18:00
bjfRoll Call18:01
* ogasawara waves18:01
* JFo here18:01
* tgardner waves18:01
* manjo rolls in18:01
MootBotMeeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.18:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
cnd /o18:02
cjwatsonpersia: ok18:02
bjf# NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Open Action Item: ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Action Item: ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition18:02
ogasawarabjf: done18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Open Action Item: smb to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Action Item: smb to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Open Action Item: jfo to explain new bug review process18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Action Item: jfo to explain new bug review process18:02
JFoin progress18:03
bjf[TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)18:03
JFoRelease Meeting Bugs (none yet)18:03
JFoAlpha 1 Milestoned Bugs (0)18:03
JFo * 0 linux kernel bugs ()18:03
JFo * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs ()18:03
JFo * 0 linux-ec2 bug ()18:03
JFo * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs ()18:03
JFoRelease Targeted Bugs (34 across all packages)18:03
JFo * 1 linux kernel bugs18:03
JFo * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs18:03
JFo * 0 linux-ec2 bug18:03
JFo * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs18:03
JFoMilestoned Features -18:03
JFo * 13 blueprints18:03
JFo*** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***18:04
JFoBugs with Patches Attached:130 (down 2 from last week)18:04
JFoBreakdown by status:18:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/18:04
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:04
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:04
jjohansen  Working on dfa translation for the compatibility patch for old kernel interface, and will use this to cross verify the upstreaming interface changes.18:04
jjohansenso current upstreaming code isn't yet compatible with lucid18:05
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)18:05
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)18:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack18:05
manjoI emailed out a description of what needs to be done, and why we need to do it t18:05
manjoo the ukml. Waiting on responses.18:05
manjolooks like we need help from foundations18:06
ogasawaramanjo: I was thinking you might want to CC foundations on that email as well.18:06
ogasawaramanjo: as they likely don't follow ukml18:06
manjoapw, was of the opinon that we discuss it on the list 1st I thought18:06
apwthats fine we can point them at it either way18:06
manjoogasawara, yes I can cc them as well..18:06
apwwe need their input for sure18:07
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:07
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:07
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:07
apwTim has pulled out the -preempt flavour from Maverick with a view to it being a community supported flavour from its own source package.  The new ubuntu-debian.git repository is up and seeded with Maverick debian plus some fixes developed f18:07
apwollowing testing on Karmic and Lucid; scripts now exist to apply this back to th18:07
apwose releases.  Finally the broadcom wl driver has been fixed for Maverick.18:07
bjfJust an observation, lots of people have items in the whiteboard for this blueprint but there are very few subscribers18:08
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:08
tgardnerLTS backport is undergoing tests (no problems so far). I've uploaded to the kernel PPA at http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ppa/ubuntu. I've also created a new branch in the Lucid repository called lts-backport-maverick18:08
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:08
jjohansen  Playing with paravirt-ops kernel for legacy /dev/tty and /dev/sdX used by EC2 and integrating in to the virtual kernel, currently /dev/hvc -> /dev/tty changes require !VT18:08
jjohansen  Have built and Produce kernels with paravirt-ops enabled for testing, but they aren't quite ready for hand off to scott and others for further testing18:08
apwhow big si the delta there ?18:09
jjohansenit is small18:09
apwjust configuration ?18:09
jjohansenI couple of patches that touch hvc and xen_blkdev18:09
aboganibjf: subscribed18:09
tgardnermostly device name changes, right?18:10
jjohansensome config changes, and removing wireless-crda from packaging18:10
jjohansen/dev/hvc -> /dev/sd18:10
jjohansenand /dev/hvc -? /dev/tty18:10
apwjjohansen, thanks ..18:10
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)18:11
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support18:11
cndI'm currently in the process of reviewing the configs for tracers in maverick, other work (tooling packaging) has yet to be started18:11
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:11
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:11
ogasawaraI'm hoping to update iscsitarget today.  apw had a rather large set of patches associated to his name during the18:11
ogasawaradelta review, so I could see him extending this work item to Alpha2.  manjo only has one patch to follow up on, so I suspect he should be able to complete this by next week, ie. Alpha1.18:11
* apw squeeks ..18:11
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)18:11
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts18:11
manjosmb, I emailed you regarding that patch as you requested18:12
apwkernels are up for testing in my purple PPA, no feedback as yet from foundations18:12
smbmanjo, Yes I saw it, but have not got time to follow up18:12
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)18:12
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review18:12
ogasawaraThe two bugs/work items are Fix Committed and should close when I upload today.  This will then complete the blueprint.18:13
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)18:13
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)18:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:13
JFoWorking on the wiki pages with input from apw, ogasawara and smb. this is an action on 2 BPs misc and bug handling. Which should it be under?18:13
apwbug handling18:13
* ogasawara votes bug handling too18:13
apwas you are doing most of it18:13
JFoalso we have discovered that the Expired status is missing from Launchpad so the done item will need to be reopened18:13
JFoapw, ok18:14
smbsounds reasonable ..18:14
JFoI'll remove it from misc then18:14
apwJFo, 'missing' ?18:14
JFomissing as in not there18:14
bjfapw, will look into it after the meeting18:14
apwbibble ..18:14
JFoso the expired script is doing its job but unable to actually expire bugs18:14
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:14
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:14
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:14
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:14
apwLeann has written up the new modules.builtin rules exceptions.  Other progress i18:15
apws slow but still hoped to hit Alpha-1.18:15
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)18:15
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement18:15
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)18:15
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement18:15
ckingnothing to report18:16
bjf[TOPIC] kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:16
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:16
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:16
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:16
ckingIdentified some tests "low-hanging fruit"18:16
ckingGit repo: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=cking/ubuntu-firmware-test-suite/.git;a=summary18:16
cking  Test suite framework complete (fancy logging, execution mechanism, kernel log parsing, etc..)18:16
cking  Test added in past week:18:16
cking     dmi_decode:  test DMI/SMBIOS tables for errors18:16
cking     acpiinfo:    general ACPI sanity check18:16
cking     syntaxcheck: check for DSDT AML syntax errors18:16
cking     klog:        check for generic errors in kernel log18:16
cking     wakealarm:   ACPI wakealarm test18:16
cking     s3:          suspend/resume test (in progress)18:16
cking     with the help of some code lifted from the Intel Firmware Test kit18:16
cking  Working on:18:16
cking     common:      check common kernel log errors18:16
cking     s4:          hibernate/resume test18:16
cking     semanticAML: some semantic AML checking18:16
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:17
ogasawaraIt's been almost a week since I've uploaded and I've accumulated quite a bit of patches since then.  We've pulled in the -omap flavour, tweaked multiple config options per our UDS config review, and dropped a number of patches based on our UDS delta review.  We're also now carrying the two security kernel hardening patches for hardlink/symlink protections.  That being said, I'll be uploading 2.6.34-4.11 today (note the A18:17
ogasawaraBI bump).  I'll likely do one last upload on Friday, so get your patches to the list and ack'd before then if you want something to land in the Alpha1 kernel. Also, please test once 2.6.34-4.11 is uploaded if you are able to.18:17
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:18
smbNoting changed since last week. Currently working with priority on getting18:18
smball of the topic branches ready for security plus providing test kernels for18:18
smball ec2 and arm branches. Will send out separate mail for testing.18:18
smbTarget for security release is early next week.18:18
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:18
JFoIncoming Bugs18:18
JFo1134 Lucid Bugs18:18
JFo4 Maverick Bugs18:18
JFoCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):18:18
JFo==== regression-potential ====18:18
JFo  * 3 maverick bugs18:18
JFo  * 302 lucid bugs (to be converted to regression-release)18:18
JFo==== regression-update ====18:18
JFo  * 25 lucid bugs (down 1)18:18
JFo  * 9 karmic bugs (no change)18:18
JFo  * 5 jaunty bugs (no change)18:18
JFo  * 2 intrepid bugs (no change)18:18
JFo  * 2 hardy bug (no change)18:18
JFo==== regression-release ====18:18
JFo  * 149 lucid bugs (up 8)18:18
JFo  * 50 karmic bugs (down 2)18:19
JFo  * 20 jaunty bugs (down 1)18:19
JFo  * 10 intrepid bugs (no change)18:19
JFo  * 3 hardy bugs (no change)18:19
JFo==== regression-proposed ====18:19
JFo  * 1 lucid bug (no change)18:19
JFo  * 1 karmic bug (no change)18:19
cndcan we drop the intrepid bugs now?18:19
JFoI assume so18:19
ogasawaraI'd say drop em18:19
JFoEOL was end of April18:19
JFowill so18:19
JFoerr do..18:20
apwyep no obvious reson to report them18:20
manjoshould atleast add comment saying update to latest version of ubuntu18:20
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:20
JFoBug Days will start back next week. I plan to send out an announcement for the next one later this week with a reminder the business day before. The current plan is to review Bugs with Patches attached to eliminate misreported patches and prepare the list for team review.18:20
JFoI am however, open to suggestion should the Bug day topic need to change18:20
apwseems a valid use of the day ..18:21
JFoI assume we'd like to focus on those as a team at some point as well18:21
JFoso we can see what is cruft and what is not18:21
JFoso I am open to a Kernel Bug Day soon too18:21
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:22
aboganiWho could review my -lowlatency package (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-May/010707.html) ?18:22
aboganiWho could upload it when will be ready?18:22
smbI probably would volunteer but I am already badly behind reviewing -rt18:23
aboganilowlatency is a very simple package.18:24
cndabogani: I can try to review18:24
cndbut I don't have upload rights18:24
bjfJFo, go18:24
JFoapw, did you want to discuss the priority listing briefly?18:24
JFoor wait?18:24
apwabogani, i have it on my list to review18:24
apwwe can worry about upload after that18:24
aboganiapw: Ok. Thanks.18:24
apwJFo, sure18:25
cjwatsonwould it be hard to get at least fbcon built-in in the near future (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Grub2BootFramebuffer)?  I guess vesafb might require a bit more thought18:25
ogravesafb might get tricky with arm :)18:25
* ogra agrees fully on fbcon18:25
ogasawaracjwatson: I can look into it, can you open me a bug so it doesn't fall off the radar18:26
bjfthanks everyone18:27
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:27.18:27
JFothanks bjf18:27
lagCheers bjf18:27
cjwatsonogasawara: ok18:30
cjwatsonogra: obviously vesafb is per-arch18:31
ograindeed thus the ":)" :)18:31
cjwatsonogasawara: bug 58549018:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 585490 in linux (Ubuntu) "build in fbcon on all architectures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58549018:33
ogasawaracjwatson: thanks, will try to get it in for the Alpha1 kernel18:34
ivokssommer: o/18:52
sommeryo :)18:52
sommerhow's it going18:56
ivoksquite good18:56
* Daviey and kirkland need to make our apologies. We are sprinting18:57
ttxDaviey: why do you need to apologize ? You plan to miss the meeting ?18:58
* SpamapS yawns18:59
ttxHello everyone19:00
ttxjiboumans is on a call and might be late, asked me to start without him.19:00
MootBotMeeting started at 13:00. The chair is ttx.19:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:00
ttxWelcome to the 15428th Ubuntu Server Team meeting19:00
* smoser claps19:01
ttxAgenda is fresh at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting19:01
ttxLucky scribe is SpamapS19:01
* SpamapS bows19:01
ttxSpamapS: details about minutes publication at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team%20policy19:01
ttx[TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting19:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting19:02
ttx* ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos: DONE19:02
ttxDeadline was today EOB, but we'll discuss that later19:02
ttx* ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process19:02
ttxDONE as well, I think. He ran out of questions19:02
ttx[TOPIC] Maverick Alpha2 subcycle and specs19:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Maverick Alpha2 subcycle and specs19:03
ttxWe need to finalize specs, review them and assign some of them to the Alpha-2 iteration this week19:03
ttxSpecs that are ready must be set to "Review" status19:04
ttxGiven that a fair number of them are not yet in that status, I assume that today's deadline might be difficult to reach19:04
ttxSo please move as many as you can to that status today. And the new deadline is tomorrow EOB19:05
ivoksthank you!19:05
mathiazttx: what'S the most important items that should be part of the specs?19:05
ttxWe'll review the specs starting today, asking questions on the whiteboard19:05
mathiazttx: should WI be already defined?19:05
ScottKivoks: I'll take care of the mail stack spec.19:05
mathiazttx: can the user stories be postponed?19:05
ivoksScottK: ok19:05
mathiazttx: or should the spec be completly ready?19:06
* ScottK even started on it already.19:06
ttxmathiaz: design is the most important. Implementation (or WI) should at least give an idea of how much work is involved19:06
ttxmathiaz: if you need to pick something to leave out, user stories are a good candidate19:06
mathiazttx: ok - so in order of importance: 1. Design 2. Work Items (=implementation) 3. Other sections19:07
ttxmathiaz: I have a few specs where I'm missing info, so having an open plan in the spec is ok too. Something where the first steps of Implementation is "find the right design" :)19:07
ttxmathiaz: yes19:08
SpamapSsuch as "cloud-loadbalancer - create proof of concept LB config backend (puppet or REST): TODO19:09
ttxIdeally community specs would be filed by that deadline as well. Especially if they rely on some outside help19:09
ttxIf they are not ready by tomorrow EOB we'll have trouble incorporating them in the general server roadmap19:09
jiboumansappologies for the late join, a call ran somewhat over. Thanks ttx for getting things started.19:09
ttxjiboumans: floor is yours, sir19:10
jiboumansttx: that went fast :)19:10
jiboumansso, what ttx said ^ ;)19:10
mathiazttx: well - you've started the meeting19:10
mathiazttx: so only you can drive the bot19:10
ttxmathiaz: I can drive the bot.19:10
mathiazttx: (that may be a detail in the meeting though)19:10
jiboumansttx: anything more on blueprint/spec prep?19:11
ttxI don't think so... Questions ?19:11
ttxOf course you can start working on urgent items on your specs.19:11
jiboumans[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:11
ttxAlso last thing...19:11
ttxRemember that merging is in full swing, and needs your help :)19:12
zuldone and done19:12
ttx[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:12
hggdhnone ATM. I just marked my specs for review19:12
jiboumanshggdh: excellent. any input needed from us for those that you'd like to bring up?19:12
zuli would like to bring up something actually19:12
hggdhonly the additional test rig19:12
hggdhzul, please go ahead19:13
jiboumanshggdh: let's sync up on that outside this meeting to get the fine points clear19:13
zulit seems my access to nominate bugs for lucid has disapeared which slows me down is there a way to get that fixed?19:13
ttxDaviey/kirkland: are you around ?19:14
jiboumansi'll take that as a 'no'19:15
jiboumanszul: can you raise it with kirkland/daviey via mail please?19:15
SpamapSnot sure if this is pertinent exactly, but I added myself as a bug triager on Fridays19:15
zuljiboumans: sure19:15
ttxjiboumans: my question was unrelated to zul's problem19:15
SpamapSper zul's request I might add19:15
ttxI don't think they can help19:15
jiboumansttx: my bad19:15
mathiazzul: hm - has you membership in some team expired latelyÉ19:16
mathiazzul: ?19:16
zulmathiaz: i dont think so19:16
jiboumanszul: in that case we'll need to contact a losa right?19:16
mathiazzul: I talk to bdmurray - he may be able to figure it out19:17
ttxzul: see with bdmurray first19:17
zuljiboumans: probably lemme poke around a bit more19:17
jiboumansalright, anything else on QA?19:17
hggdhno news there for now19:17
zulnot from me19:17
ttxhggdh: should the qa workflow spec be considered a server or a QA spec ?19:17
ttxi.e. who should be the approver ?19:18
hggdhttx: this is a good Q, I cannot answer. I would venture a mix19:18
ttxjiboumans: where do you want it ?19:18
jiboumansttx: since we initiated it, leave me as the approver for now19:18
ttxok, same for UEC testing, I suspect.19:19
* hggdh thinks it saner19:19
jiboumansdefinitely for UEC testing19:19
ttx[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:19
jiboumansjjohansen: o/19:19
jjohansenhey :)19:19
jiboumansi was wondering about the kernel upgrades in uec/ec219:19
jjohansenSo I have started playing with the maverick pv-ops ec2 kernel19:19
jiboumansyou're way ahead of me i see19:20
jjohansenI have built several but none have successfully booted :(19:20
jjohansenAt the moment I am trimming configs and rechecking packaging/builds19:20
zuljjohansen: need help?19:20
jjohansennah, not yet any way19:20
jjohansenits early can't really expect it to go right the first few times19:21
zuljjohansen: its probably nothing to do with the configs, its probably more to do with the vmlinuz you'll have to strip it19:21
jjohansenso hopefully we will have a kernel in a few days19:21
SpamapSI have an item in the cluster filesystem spec about Ceph being available as a module in the maverick kernel (which it is not in the latest). Do I need to add a work item in my spec for somebody on the kernel team?19:21
jjohansenzul: hrmm it should be stripped but I'll check19:22
ivoksone thing19:22
zuljjohansen: xen versions have different boot loaders19:22
jjohansenWe already have that on our misc configs19:22
ivoksthat's a cloud filesystem19:22
jjohansenceph should be enabled with the next upload19:23
SpamapSjjohansen: ty. :)19:23
jiboumansSpamapS: good to add a workitem anyway so we can keep track of it19:23
ttxok, any other questions for kernel ?19:23
ttx[TOPIC] Weekly status for Server documentation (sommer)19:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly status for Server documentation (sommer)19:24
ttxThat's a new point :)19:24
jiboumanshi sommer19:25
ttxsommer: As discussed, it's good for you to have a forum for us to sync our respective needs, so here you go :)19:25
sommerthere's been some good discussion on the ubuntu-doc list about new formats19:25
ScottKIs the 10.04 server guide available as a PDF?  It came up on #ubuntu-server recently and I didn't know where to point someone.19:25
sommerScottK: there was an issue with the PDF for lucid, but I committed a change yesterday to take care of it19:25
sommerit just now needs to be rebuilt and uploaded to h.u.c19:26
ttxsommer: do you have a spec covering new sections that you want written for Maverick ?19:26
ScottKsommer: Great.  Thanks.19:26
sommerttx: yep, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+spec/server-maverick-serverguide-updates19:26
ttxhm, I don't think that one can be picked up by our work items system, since it's not the same project19:27
ttxsommer: so you'll have to use that lot in the meeting to shout when you need outside help.19:27
sommeroh, should I change it?19:27
jiboumansttx: would be great to have all server related blueprints in the WI tracker though19:27
jiboumanswonder how we can do that19:27
ttxjiboumans: it needs to be an Ubuntu spec19:27
ttxjiboumans: then if targeted against Maverick, work items assigned to team members would show up in our tracker19:28
mathiazcan't the spec be just reattached to the ubuntu project?19:28
sommerif not I can recreate it19:28
ttxI doubt that's possible19:28
mathiazor recreate it19:28
ttxsommer: that would be great. Then you can have work items like "write draft of section x" and assign that to someone, and keep "Review draft of X" on your plate19:29
jiboumansthat'd work very well indeed19:29
ttx[ACTION] sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs19:30
MootBotACTION received:  sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs19:30
jiboumansnext is you ttx on papercuts19:30
ttx[TOPIC] Maverick Papercuts: Start of the alpha-2 round (ttx)19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Maverick Papercuts: Start of the alpha-2 round (ttx)19:30
sommerwhat's the project name?19:30
ttxsommer: "Ubuntu" ?19:30
sommerdoh, sooo simple :)19:30
ttxSo in order to have a full alpha-2 round for papercuts, I anticipated the review and prepared the round in advance. I'll call for nominations today, and open nominations (until next week's meeting where we'll decide on the bugs for the round)19:30
ttxdelaying one more week would jeopardize the length of that subcycle19:31
jiboumansttx: that warrants a seperate mail to u-devel/-server right?19:31
ttxjiboumans: yes. I start with a blog post, then tomorrow an email... Then I would appreciate some echo on blogs of yours19:32
ttxI already know Yokozar will echo it, since he was in that UDS room19:32
ttxany other blogger with a large audience is welcome (kirkland ?)19:32
ttxWe already have a few candidates from previous leftovers19:32
ttxNote that this time, you can nominate minor features as well !19:33
zulminor features like what?19:33
ivokslike utf8 in mysql by default?19:33
ttxThe method is the same, mark as affecting the "server-papercuts" project19:33
ttxlike things that would impact behavior, and that we refused because of FeatureFreeze during the lucid cycle19:33
ttxivoks: a papercut needs to be non-conflicting19:34
ttxand simple to implement :)19:34
SpamapSotherwise we'd have to call it a paper stab19:35
ivoksit's simple alright19:35
ttxWe'll review the nominations next week to come up with a list of candidates19:35
ttxand start the subcycle on Jun 2nd19:35
ttxto end it end of week before the Alpha2 release19:35
* sommer heh stab19:35
ttxquestions ?19:35
ttxwe'll need everyone's help in fixing those papercuts btw19:36
ttxchoosing them is the easiest part of the job :)19:37
ttx[TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)19:37
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)19:37
* mathiaz opens up the links19:37
mathiaztwo bugs nominated for lucid:19:37
mathiazbug 56717919:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 567179 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "Update mysql-server-5.1 hangs up" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56717919:37
mathiazbug 58354219:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 583542 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh server doesn't start when irrelevant filesystems are not available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58354219:38
zulubottu: im testing bug 56717919:38
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)19:38
zulstupid bot19:38
zuli have it fixed for maverick (567179) just need to get people in lucid to test it19:38
mathiazI think both bugs are not ready for SRU as of now19:39
ttxmathiaz: ack19:39
mathiazas they still need to more information to get to the triage state19:39
mathiazI'm going to decline them19:39
mathiazany bugs worth fixing from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html ?19:39
smoserthere is no fix for 583542 available19:39
mathiazsmoser: ok19:40
mathiazbug 57716519:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 577165 in vsftpd (Ubuntu) "Typo in etc/init/vsftpd.conf" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57716519:40
jiboumansbug 573206 sounds important enough19:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 573206 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[SRU] upstart script does not load AppArmor profile" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57320619:40
zuljiboumans: its already fixed in lucid19:41
ttxjiboumans: it's already done apparently. Zul's magic19:41
jiboumanszul++ also way ahead of me19:41
* jiboumans notes that being in UTC+8 means he's behind the times19:41
RoAkSoAxlol :P19:42
mathiazI've written up the Spec for the updated sru-process in maverick:19:42
ttxooo, a graph !19:42
mathiazso if you wanna comment on what's coming up please head there19:42
mathiazand there are shiny diagrams as wel :)19:43
zulwohoo diagrams!19:43
ttxmathiaz: now I know why you don't have time to write user stories. Too busy doing shiny diagrams19:43
mathiazttx: :)19:43
mathiazttx: it's an experiment:19:44
mathiaza picture is worth a thousand words!19:44
jiboumansagreed there19:44
ttxnow you need to automate paperboard -> dia transition19:44
mathiazthat's all from me on the SRU front19:44
mathiazttx: I've got some ideas there :)19:44
mathiazanything else?19:45
mathiazon the SRU front?19:45
jiboumanssmoser, you had something on ami/api tools?19:45
smoserseeking feedback.19:45
smoserec2-ami-tools and ec2-api-tools are multiverse packages19:45
smoserthey are updated by amazon to expose new features (or regions) on occasion19:45
smoserin the past we have provided backports of these via a ppa19:46
mathiazsmoser: one option is to push them to -backports19:46
mathiazsmoser: they may actually be SRUable as well19:46
smoserright. so 3 options:19:46
smosera. SRU19:46
smoser backports19:46
smoserc. ppa backports19:46
smoserwe've been doing c.19:46
ttx(a) needs a TB derogation19:46
mathiazsmoser: under the exception that they're useless (?) if the network service changes19:47
smoserwell they're never useless.19:47
mathiazsmoser: landscape-client is an example of package that an SRU exception19:47
smoserthe old tools work, they just do not expose new functionality19:47
mathiazsmoser: right19:47
mathiazsmoser: so -backports is the best option19:47
smoseris there a reason to prefer -backports over ppa ?19:48
mathiazsmoser: -backports are easily discoveralbe19:48
mathiazsmoser: whereas PPA are less discoverable19:48
smoseri question it because there is a fair amount of use of the ppa, and education to use backports instead would be needed.19:48
mathiazsmoser: there is an option in the sources list manager to enable backports19:48
mathiazsmoser: and I think there -backports options in sources.list are also set but commented19:49
jiboumanswe do have the option to enable the ppa on EC2 images ourselves19:49
mathiazsmoser: right - if it's common knowledge to enable the PPA then I'd stick with the existing option19:49
SpamapSIn my brief time running Ubuntu server I've never used thes ources list manager.. but I've definitely setup a few PPA's to pull from19:49
smoserjiboumans, well.. tools are in multiverse, they're not in our images by design.19:49
mathiazsmoser: if the use of the PPA is advertised and documented then I'd stick with the PPA19:50
smosermathiaz, if backports is the right thing, then i think we should go that route.19:50
SpamapScan the server guide be updated with that?19:50
mathiazsmoser: it seems that the use of the PPA is already common knowledge19:50
ScottKsmoser: I've got no problem pushing the updated ec2 tools in backports.19:51
ttxsince this derived from the SRU process discussion, let's move to19:51
ttx[TOPIC] Open discussion19:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Open discussion19:51
mathiazsmoser: so I wouldn't change that19:51
mathiazsmoser: and as mentioned by ScottK we could publish the package to both -backports and a PPA19:51
ScottKmathiaz: Generally I think it's a problem to push people to use third party repositories when it's not really required.19:51
mathiazsmoser: it may add some overhad though19:51
smosermathiaz, somewhat common knowledge.  googling probably finds it, but it finds backports also.19:51
smoseri am leaning towards re-education19:52
smoserbackports is a common place for backports19:52
mathiazScottK: right - IMO the main issue here is how discoverable the repository to use is (be it a PPA or a -backports)19:52
SpamapSsmoser: that is almost t-shirt worthy19:52
* ttx leans towards reeducation too19:52
ScottKsmoser: You know the backports procedure?19:52
smoseri can read19:53
ttxSpamapS: we have a "quotes" page.19:53
ScottKOK.  Ping me if you have questions.19:53
smoseryeah. thanks ScottK19:53
jiboumansso... open discussion? :)19:53
ScottKI'd like to talk about package stack names.19:53
SpamapSI like the idea of having them in both19:53
mathiazsmoser: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports19:53
ScottKSo far we have mail and cluster stack.19:53
SpamapSThe PPA will get them right away.. backports upon completion of the process. Seems useful.19:53
jiboumansScottK: go right ahead19:53
zuli like to say that im melting19:54
ScottKIn mail stack, we're planning on using mail-stack-foo package names.19:54
ScottKI think having a general rule of [stackname]-stack-[function] is a good way to go.19:54
jiboumansScottK: i've been following the thread on naming and i'd agree there19:55
ScottKI think cluster stack is similar, but not sure.19:55
sommerthat makes sense to me19:55
RoAkSoAxScottK: yes it is similar, though the difference is that in our scenarios we are in need of multiple machine19:55
ScottKSince I know you are pushing the idea of more community supported stacks, it seems like a good idea to have a standard naming scheme and have that documented.19:55
jiboumansScottK: it caters to the road of least surprise (as opposed to 'dovefix' which makes sense mostly to those in the know)19:55
SpamapSare there other stacks in the pipeline?19:56
ScottKSpamapS: Not that I know of, but I know Canonical wants to encourage the concept.19:56
RoAkSoAxFor Cluster Stack, names I've been thinking of is: cluster-stack-failover and cluster-stack-loadbalancing19:56
ttxScottK: you apparently do not meet any resistance :)19:57
SpamapShow do stacks differ from tasks?19:57
ttxlet's wrap up.19:57
ScottKttx: Could you have someone document this policy?19:57
* SpamapS will takethe answer offline. :)19:57
ttxScottK: where would you see this policy ? As a server team policy ?19:57
mcasthe stack packages are virtual packages?19:57
ttxScottK: or something more TB-level ?19:58
mathiaz^^ seems like a good place to document that for the time being19:58
ttx[ACTION] ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names19:59
MootBotACTION received:  ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names19:59
ttx[TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time19:59
MootBotNew Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time19:59
ttxNext week, same place same time19:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:59.19:59
ttxThanks everyone :)19:59
jiboumanswith a minute to spare19:59
jiboumansthanks people19:59
ScottKttx: I was thinking server team policy20:00
ttxScottK: I'll make it so20:00
=== ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube
legreffieri heard there was a meeting at 21pm utc21:34
legreffierobviously i got the date wrong21:34
legreffieroh no it was next week, nevermind!21:35
Pendulumlegreffier: what sort of meeting?21:41
legreffierubuntu council21:42
=== ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
czajkowskiwhich council21:57
BlackZlegreffier: do you mean the membership board?21:58
BlackZ(I think yes, since you're there (in the table of the candidates))21:59
BlackZit's the 1st june21:59
legreffierit's next week.21:59
BlackZat 20:00 UTC21:59
BlackZgood luck21:59
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux

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