=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === acerimmer_ is now known as acerimmer === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux === randa_ is now known as randa [11:02] meeting today? [11:04] persia: ^^ [11:04] persia: pm ? [11:08] freeflying: can you pass on a message to persia ? [11:09] freeflying: yes, there is [11:09] amachu pinged us [11:09] not sure when [11:10] Tell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting. [11:11] sivaji: seems persia is afk atm [11:13] you could tell him when he is here. [11:13] ok, so we start? [11:24] Sorry I'm late. [11:29] so we're here [11:29] 22:10 < sivaji> Tell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting. [11:30] Saw that. [11:31] Are we quorate? Were we waiting for me? Who's charing? [11:43] Right, so since I'm late, and nobody else is chair, and neither of the aspirants are present, I'm adjourning the meeting. [11:43] aye [11:43] I'll be unable to attend the next one, unfortunately. [11:43] * persia updates the date on the wiki page for the early June meeting === Auree is now known as umi [13:59] #startmeeting [13:59] Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander. [13:59] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:00] ogra: GrueMaster: persia, dyfet, ping [14:00] pong [14:00] poop [14:01] * GrueMaster wheezes, coughs, and sputters in. [14:01] NCommander, you missed davidm :) [14:01] G'day all [14:01] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100525 [14:01] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100525 [14:01] ogra: d'oh [14:01] grr, where is my spec gone [14:02] [topic] Action Item Review [14:02] New Topic: Action Item Review [14:02] * ogra tries to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root [14:02] [topic] ogra to SRU bug #568736 [14:02] New Topic: ogra to SRU bug #568736 [14:02] Launchpad bug 568736 in netbook-meta (Ubuntu Maverick) "Having Evolution installed along with Desktop-Email is pointlessly redundant" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568736 [14:02] done [14:02] uploaded to proposed, seeds for lucid and maverick were changed [14:03] [topic] NCommander to invite ndec to meeting [14:03] New Topic: NCommander to invite ndec to meeting [14:03] did you ? [14:03] He's not here [14:03] I poked him on IRC once or twice, but kept missing them [14:03] And he wasn7t on the ping list [14:03] there is that awesome thing called email [14:03] heard about it ? :P [14:04] I'll c/o this [14:04] Also a c/o on NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih [14:04] [topic] Mobile team to have spec completed by next week [14:04] New Topic: Mobile team to have spec completed by next week [14:04] * NCommander has his done [14:04] * ogra has one out of three done [14:05] davidm, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready to go [14:05] i fail to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root and havent done https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl yet [14:06] somehow the ubuntu-arm team is shuffling everything around atm [14:06] [topic] Standing Items [14:06] New Topic: Standing Items [14:07] nothing on the workitem tracker yet [14:07] indeed [14:07] NCommander make sure to have davidm make your specs valid for it [14:08] [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier) [14:08] New Topic: Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier) [14:08] [action] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker [14:08] ACTION received: NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker [14:08] did you invite mpoirier ? [14:09] * NCommander didn'thave an action to [14:09] sigh [14:09] can you send out the two necessary invites today ? [14:09] ndec and mpoirier [14:09] by mail [14:10] will do [14:10] thanks [14:10] so kernel status on omap4 is so-lala [14:10] cooloney isn'taround :-/ [14:10] it works but i see bus errors if i do heavy compile jobs [14:10] Interesting traffic on the ubuntu-kernel mailing list. Looks like we'll have *two* OMAP trees. [14:11] cooloney is trying to upload the kernel to the canonical-arm-dev PPA atm [14:11] persia, we do [14:11] one for omap3 and one for 4 [14:11] NCommander, please test that kernel too asap [14:11] Are they both topic branches, or can we build the omap3 one from the linux source package? [14:11] so we have more data points [14:11] persia, no idea, ask kernel team [14:11] i think omap3 is supposed to be from mainline [14:12] with some cherrypicks from linux-omap [14:12] omap4 is completely TI rebased against our tree [14:12] I thought omap4 was our tree rebased against TI's kernel [14:12] other way round :) [14:13] omap4 is TI rebasing their patchset against the maverick kernel [14:13] * persia is confused by different contents from different sources, and hopes that someone will make it all clear in the future [14:13] easy :) [14:13] 10.07 -> TI 2.6.32 with ubuntu configs [14:14] 10.10 omap3 and 4 both against 2.6.35 ... omap3 built from mainline, omap4 TI rebased against out tree [14:14] clearer ? [14:14] ogra: mind if I move on? [14:15] Not in any way, because it failed to have any reference to the actual source packages, but that7s OK: the folks who can give me the answer I want aren7t here. [14:15] well, can you commit to do some omap4 kernel testing ? [14:15] it would really help if more then one person does it [14:15] * GrueMaster would but ENOHW. [14:16] persia, source is at omapzoom.org for the 10.07 and at kernel.ubuntu.com in git for 10.10 [14:16] ogra: sure, I'lltestmore kernels as well [14:16] (or at least its supposed to end up there) [14:16] NCommander, thanks [14:16] move !! :) [14:16] GrueMaster, well, you can test omap3 ... i think amitk had something for us [14:17] [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster) [14:17] New Topic: QA Status (GrueMaster) [14:17] ask in #ubuntu-kernel or -arm [14:17] cool [14:17] GrueMaster, how is the SRU front looking ? [14:17] qa status: Currently working on internal infrastructure improvements and starting to test app builds this week. [14:17] SRU front? [14:18] yeah [14:18] there are still a bunch of SRUs for lucid, no ? [14:18] especially for kernel stuff iirc [14:19] I don't know. All kernel issues from 10.04 were for platforms that are apparently not supported by us as of now. Haven't heard from any kernel devs about any test kernels since prior to release. [14:19] you pointed at them last meeting [14:19] GrueMaster, these platforms are supported for 18 months [14:20] ok. [14:20] and you pointed out the SRUs yourself last meeting [14:20] i.e. the eth0 issues on babbage [14:20] I'll have to dig up the list again and see if anyone has moved on them. [14:20] ok [14:20] I know I haven't seen anything from the kernel team. [14:20] if not we need to kick some butts :) [14:21] right, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ? [14:21] can I move on, or are we waiting for an SRU list? [14:21] i guess its all smb but i doubt he'll write the patches himself [14:21] NCommander, an action :) [14:21] then move onm [14:21] i'm happy to be in the action together with GrueMaster [14:22] [action] GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid [14:22] ACTION received: GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid [14:22] nah [14:22] no? [14:22] right, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ? [14:22] oh [14:22] (that was initially to GrueMaster ) [14:22] sure. [14:22] but you can action him to assemble a list too :) [14:23] since i only operate from the top of my head which isnt very reliable ;) [14:23] [action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team [14:23] ACTION received: GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team [14:23] [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:23] New Topic: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet) [14:24] toolchain is no longer broken, but Qt is busted. Will review this failure this week and attempt to resolve, as this is breakinga lot fo rdepends [14:24] yeah kde looks bad [14:24] as usual [14:24] and still libnih [14:24] indeed [14:24] that will get us bad days wrt images [14:24] As usual? [14:24] persia, yeah [14:25] ogra: its only broken cause Qt FTBFSed [14:25] we didnt have a cycle yet where kde/qt wasnt at least broken once [14:25] and that looks like a timeout [14:25] right [14:25] ogra: yeah well, GNOME breaks itself as often, no? [14:25] i saw the discussion with lamont in ubuntu-release [14:25] its broken right now! [14:25] Let's not have a toolkit war. [14:25] nah [14:25] anyway [14:25] We need both for the flavours built. [14:26] lamont asked that the package gets a pinger mechanism [14:26] So they need be fixed. Moving on... [14:26] for QT [14:26] [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) [14:26] New Topic: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) [14:26] instead of working around the timeout [14:26] nothing new to add on my side [14:26] so someone has to add such a mechanism [14:27] * ogra points to #ubuntu-release around 22:00 UTC last night [14:27] ogra: can you sum up for those who weren't there? [14:27] ScottK: this early in the cycle, could we just fix the package please? [14:27] It's not clear what 'fix' would mean in it's current state since the dbg really takes that long to build. [14:27] We are promised qt4-x11 getting more modular, but it hasn't happened yet. [14:27] something that makes sure we spit something out to stdout every 120 min or so, after verifying that the build is, in fact, progressing [14:27] take a look at the compilers :-( [14:27] Sigh. [14:27] ScottK: as in this is what I get for bending over and violating rules just to avoid rebuilding oo.o everywhere [14:27] sorry ScottK ... [14:28] so the request is to not add more timeout override handlers on the buildds but to fix the packages [14:28] we need some generic mechanism we can put on a wikipage for that i think [14:28] * NCommander disagrees ... [14:28] for people being hit by these timeouts [14:29] NCommander, can you take that on with lamont ? [14:29] I hate the idea of patching a package so it builds just because its slow [14:29] will do [14:29] he's the one to have to do that work all the time [14:29] thanks [14:29] [action] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont [14:29] ACTION received: NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont [14:29] ogra: anything else? [14:29] nope [14:29] (damn this meeting is goingby fast) [14:29] so wrt image status [14:29] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready [14:29] \o/ [14:29] NCommander, persia and me have workitems there [14:30] please everyone have a look and agree/disagree :) [14:30] cool [14:30] ogra: is that it? [14:30] GrueMaster, we probably need a specific testing plan since the image operates totally different from what we know [14:30] NCommander, yeah, any additions ? [14:31] Why not combine the two livecd-rootfs tasks, or at least assign the same person? [14:31] Avoids handoff complexities. [14:31] From a boot up standpoint it shouldn't be too different from live images. [14:31] Just that I'm slowing rolling along with d-cd changes [14:31] persia, well, i'd rather leave the jasper stuff in one hand [14:32] GrueMaster, well, there is a lot that can go wrong with these images [14:32] ogra: Also, I thought we were splitting the d-i vs. jasper stuff into two tasks, for scheduling reasons. [14:32] Other than the initial setup that shouold run at first boot. [14:32] basically its not different from what casper does, but the results are more harmful if something fails [14:32] persia, d-i vs jasper ? [14:32] I'm still not entirely happy with the VFAT solution, but will withold detailed complaint until I can come up with something better. [14:33] there is no other solution [14:33] ogra: my/your task. [14:33] its a HW limitation [14:33] You're addressing the wrong complaint :) Wait until I have some alternate to propose, or ignore me :) [14:33] persia, ah, i dont know if the WI tracker will still pick it up, feel free to split it [14:33] * persia tries [14:33] i was inclined to add both of us in front [14:34] ogra: Why not add a testplan line to the blueprint and assign it to me. [14:34] persia, point is that the u-boot versions we currently have can only read fat [14:34] GrueMaster, would you work out a testplan based on the spec ? [14:34] GrueMaster: I'm done editing: your turn :) [14:34] ogra: persia: please take it offline, then come back? [14:34] like "check that the blah worked by looking at blupp" [14:34] I can. NCommander: AR time. [14:34] NCommander: Please. [14:35] persia: please what? [14:35] random expression of politeness ? :) [14:35] works me [14:35] works you eh ? :) [14:35] er [14:36] * ogra grins [14:36] works for me [14:36] * NCommander needs more sleep [14:36] which brings me to [14:36] [topic] Meeting Time [14:36] New Topic: Meeting Time [14:36] So [14:36] anyway nothing else from me for images [14:36] i think davidm started a discussion by mail about that one [14:36] there's no real better time unless either ogra or persia is willing to be shafted with an ungoldly meeting hour. [14:36] ogra: I didn't see an email [14:36] * ogra did [14:37] ugh, must not be awake enough to remember it [14:37] Anyway [14:37] subject: Team meeting times [14:37] oh [14:37] I remember that [14:37] Ok [14:37] nobody spoke up [14:37] so i guess we'll stay at what we have [14:37] Anyway, to sum up, there's no real better thime for this unfortunately, so meeting time is unmoved [14:37] its a week old [14:37] [topic] AOB [14:37] New Topic: AOB [14:38] gee, thanks guys. [14:38] Is there really no better time? [14:38] GrueMaster, ? [14:38] 6am here. [14:38] Just one thing folks; please remember to post your ARs for previous weeks and such. [14:38] I'd be really happy to shift it by ~12 hours. [14:38] persia, dunno, nobody answered davids mail [14:38] * NCommander would be happy by ~12 hour shift, but I thought that put ogra at a poor time [14:38] GrueMaster, ^^^ [14:39] lets keep it on that mail [14:39] and revisit next week [14:39] [action] Entire team to respond to davidm's email [14:39] ACTION received: Entire team to respond to davidm's email [14:39] fair enough. [14:39] * persia tends to be more flexible than most, so leaves the decision to others [14:39] :-) [14:39] anything else, or can I close out the meeting [14:39] going once [14:39] twice [14:40] good night folks [14:40] #endmeeting [14:40] Meeting finished at 08:40. [14:40] (its nice when we finish early) [14:43] NCommander: can I PM you about something quickly? [15:58] * persia frantically edits the wiki faster [16:00] here [16:00] * micahg waves [16:00] soren: nixternal: geser: stgraber: cody-somerville: ? [16:01] * stgraber waves [16:01] hola [16:01] perfect timing ey? i must have accidentally shut off my server last night [16:01] quorate! [16:01] #startmeeting [16:01] Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is persia. [16:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:01] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda [16:01] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda [16:02] [TOPIC] Action Item Review [16:02] New Topic: Action Item Review [16:02] cjwatson to add PPU stuff in LP for Sylvestre Ledru, Scott Moser, Rodney Dawes, and Chad Miller [16:02] done [16:02] gnargh! [16:02] cjwatson to create ubuntu-kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to Ubuntu kernel packages. [16:02] not done [16:03] cody-somerville to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first [16:03] * persia moves on, considering Administrative Matters later [16:04] [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona [16:04] New Topic: MOTU Application for Artur Rona [16:04] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication [16:04] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication [16:05] DMB ? now ? [16:05] AnAnt: yup [16:05] I thought there was still an hour [16:05] Keybuk: hmm? [16:05] I don't see ari-tczew here, nor on #ubuntu-devel [16:05] cjwatson: hilight attack [16:05] do we know if he's intending to be here today? [16:05] Nor does NickServ have a current record. [16:05] Keybuk: uh, ok [16:06] he said because of flooding he might have an issue being here [16:06] cjwatson: I would think so, since he was a bit unpatient last time..figured he would be here [16:06] is it 14:00 UTC now ? [16:06] 15:00 UTC [16:06] cjwatson: have the volume *WAY UP* because someone didn't sit near the microphone (not you, this time) - and just got deafened by the BONG! [16:06] well, we promised to process him first, but why don't we deal with other applications and then deal with his as soon as (if) he arrives? [16:06] So, let's defer ari-tczew for now, giving him priority if he appears, as agreed last time. [16:06] (03:04:42 PM) ari-tczew: geser: I could be late for tomorrow's meeting, because we have flood in country and can be public communication problems. [16:07] [TOPIC] Administrative matters [16:07] New Topic: Administrative matters [16:07] [TOPIC] Meeting Structure [16:07] New Topic: Meeting Structure [16:07] I thought the meeting was suppose to be an hour ago. [16:08] the fridge said 14:00, the wiki said 15:00 [16:08] oh yes, it should have been an hour ago, I mis-calculated [16:08] So, we've talked about how the current structure doesn't always let us get to everyone, and some folks (especiall coredev apps) get shunted, perhaps for many weeks. [16:08] google calendar persistently gets it wrong, probably hence the fridge as well [16:08] * barry went by the wiki time [16:08] yeah, the fridge doesn't understand how to tell time [16:08] well, I'm lucky to arrive on time (by accident !) [16:08] The fridge is broken by DST. Complain to your governments. Abolish the practice. [16:08] the fridge is an epic fail after time changes [16:08] I think we've been spending too long on administrative matters at the start of each meeting ;-) [16:08] ari-tczew is here [16:09] ah, excellent [16:09] * ari-tczew is present [16:09] * nixternal agrees with cjwatson [16:09] The fridge isn't broken by DST. [16:09] Right, let7s go back to ari-tczew's app then. [16:09] [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona [16:09] New Topic: MOTU Application for Artur Rona [16:09] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication [16:09] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication [16:09] ari-tczew: Hey. How are you today? [16:09] Hello, my name is Artur, I live in Tczew, Poland. I am studying logistics. [16:09] persia: I'm fine and tired after work. and you? [16:10] I contribute to Ubuntu (development) since March 2009. I work on merges and syncs, because I like to order, I work on reduce delta between Debian and Ubuntu packages. I work on requested SRUs and security uploads, because I think that these sectors are orphaned. [16:12] (I guess people are reading) [16:13] ari-tczew: A number of the commentors on your application have indicated that they'd like to see you also do more work in other areas. Have you and recent examples of bugfixes you discovered, or patches submitted to Debian to reduce the need to merge in the future? [16:13] so, it's good to see lots of security and merge contributions; these are areas a lot of people get bored of, and it's good to see somebody picking up lots of work there [16:13] I'm pleased to see comments from the security team [16:14] yea, last patch to Debian was junitperf [16:14] now junitperf is Ubuntu = Debian [16:14] Oh, excellent! [16:14] and if I see that package is fakesynced, then I'll look for new upstream release and submit bug to Debian [16:15] like I did with lash package. [16:15] ari-tczew: I see a couple of comments regarding patience which seems you haven't had in previous situations, what are you doing to fix this issue and do you think it has gotten better? [16:16] Yeah, lash is a special sort of mess :) [16:16] nixternal: do you mean issue as my patience? [16:17] I'm concerned by your response to Iain Lane's comment; it comes across as very hostile to me, even if Iain's comment wasn't entirely accurate, and in particular I don't like to see responses like "But how about you? How many packages have you done sponsored?" in response to criticism; is this a language barrier thing (which I understand is a lot harder for those for whom English isn't a native language), or do you think ... [16:17] ... it's something you need to work on? I feel it's important for Ubuntu members to consider criticism they receive, although I know it can be difficult [16:17] "Also, I still remember him being upset because he wasn't able to find available sponsors for Main. He should be more patient (even a MOTU needs to be patient sometimes )" <- that is a comment from your application [16:17] cjwatson: +1 - however it seemed a bit defensive more so than hostile [16:17] maybe that's a better word [16:18] * ari-tczew is reading, translating and writing answer, please wait [16:20] nixternal that's right, my answer to Laney 's comment is defensive - only constructive 'discussion' [16:21] heh, patience is a part of heavy character [16:21] I'll try be more patient [16:21] may I respectfully suggest that "so I think that Iain Lane can't be a MOTU, because he doesn't have done a lot of security issues" (I know it was meant to be exaggeration to show a point) escalates the argument rather than trying to solve it? [16:22] I've probably done the same thing myself on occasion, but I do think it's worth mentioning and trying to avoid [16:22] cjwatson: solve what? [16:25] Iain is making some criticisms of you, which he's entitled to do (there's no point in an application process with review from other people if all the review is obliged to be positive). He may or may not be correct about all of it, and there's certainly no problem about disputing cases where you feel he's incorrect; in other cases perhaps the criticisms are ones you should be thinking about and taking on board (as you ... [16:25] ... seem to be doing here in response to nixternal's question). But I think turning it around in a way that looks like you're attacking Iain is stepping over the line [16:26] for example :-), although I don't agree with you that our failure to deal with your application last meeting was a sign of disrespect, I do think it was bad form and we should try to do better [16:26] if you see what I mean - there's no need to make things personal [16:28] Did I make it in time for the DMB? [16:28] Caesar: yes [16:28] Caesar: be patient :D [16:28] Phew, overslept, sorry [16:29] patient> *grin* [16:29] ari-tczew: on to technical matters...there seems to have been a few problems with your sync/merges in the past....what have you been doing to improve your packaging and error checking so you don't experience these same issues in the future? [16:29] hah [16:30] ari-tczew: Just to make sure, you're preparing an answer for cjwatson, yes? [16:31] cjwatson: as I said: you (as DMB team) had 13 days for manage some minutes on meeting for me. 2 hours wasn't enough... sorry, but I still think that this is disrespect for my and my time [16:31] * nixternal needs to be patient this morning...the grumpy old man syndrome is kicking in with phone calls [16:31] ari-tczew: For the implementation of QuickResponse, how would you suggest we encourage developers to focus more on sponsoring, rather than their work-of-interest that drew them to Ubuntu initially? [16:32] ari-tczew: I think there are definitely things we need to improve; you're entitled to your opinion of course [16:32] if it was disrespect, it wasn't blatant, however i do not feel it was disrespectful. you have to remember, we are volunteers (well most of us), and we have lives outside of this. we try to get as much done in the time we have [16:33] today's weather is gorgeous, i am 100% volunteer, and if someone called and said, "Hey, let's go do a bike ride." I am out of here :) [16:33] nixternal: heh, if I did mistake in packaging, sponsor comment on bug or tell me on irc what I did wrong, then I'll read on wiki about it and I'll not do this same bug in future [16:34] * ari-tczew is preparing answer for persia [16:35] persia: so, generally provide a sponsors statistics - it would be easier now with syncpackage script (thanks to bdrung) [16:36] You mean keep track of how much sponsoring is done by each person? We do that now, and publish the top folks on the Hall of Fame page. [16:36] Or do you mean something richer? [16:36] mm, I really hope that we can just fix the silly remaining problems in LP that mean we can't do this via the LP API, but I don't think I really have much of a leg to stand on in objecting to syncpackage since this has been pending for so long [16:36] (this> syncs) [16:36] cjwatson: It's really close. [16:37] asymptotically :-) [16:37] persia: hmm, current hall-of-fame is counting sync sponsorship? [16:38] ari-tczew: Should be, if the syncs are processed according to the documentation. [16:38] * persia is done with questions [16:38] I think about statistics - count from area "Sponsored by:" because with old sync sponsorship procedure, this area wasn't exist [16:39] current script syncpackage gives this area [16:40] I have no more questions [16:40] I'm good with what I saw in the backlog (sorry, was only half around) [16:40] nixternal: geser: cody-somerville: soren: ? [16:41] no questions (but I missed too much of the discussion and irclogs.u.c doesn't have it yet) [16:41]