[00:00] oops, time for Eastern Edition === bratsche is now known as br-away [00:00] robert_ancell, RAOF, TheMuso, ready? [00:00] Like a fox. [00:00] ready like a fox? [00:00] Exactly. [00:00] fair enough [00:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-05-25 [00:01] it was a short main meeting [00:02] want to skim over the logs and let me know when you're done? [00:02] ready [00:02] back [00:02] * TheMuso reads [00:03] done [00:04] done [00:04] Done [00:04] nice [00:04] ok [00:04] let's rocket through then [00:05] for partner update, there is some ambiguity regarding exactly what the Dx team plans to do for A2 [00:05] kenvandine will take care of that [00:05] Kubuntu is locked and loaded, awaiting IS to update the branding on Kubuntu.org [00:05] * bryceh waves [00:06] hi bryceh o/ [00:06] bryceh: Meeting junkie? I see you were at the !Eastern edition, too :) [00:06] so, your self assesment is due today, and you have to pick people for peer assements today [00:07] review stuff so far as what needs done is done from my POV. [00:07] RAOF, nah just looking for respite from writing launchpad test cases [00:07] TheMuso, you've done your self-assement and invited peer reviewers? [00:07] rickspencer3, how many/how do we pick peers? [00:07] rickspencer3: yes [00:08] robert_ancell, uh, there is an "invite peers" button, or similar [00:08] invite at least 3, I would say [00:08] rickspencer3, ok [00:08] I find it suspicious when people only have 1 or 2 [00:08] RAOF, none of this applies to you, I guess [00:08] so release status ... [00:08] Except for next time, I guess [00:09] seb128 believes that have all of our work items identified [00:09] are there any blueprints that aren't showing up on A2 page, but that should be? [00:09] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html [00:10] I guess I needed some kind of time out or terminator on that question [00:11] hmm, I'm not on the asignee list [00:11] robert_ancell, do you have any specs targeted for A2? [00:12] no, they're all just general maverick work items [00:12] that would be it [00:12] you are on this list: [00:12] i need help with ubuntu install, can anyone help? [00:12] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html [00:12] hi dado55 [00:12] this channel is typically for developers as we work on Ubuntu [00:12] support is usually provided in #ubuntu [00:13] though you are welcome to hang out here [00:13] we are actually in a meeting atm [00:13] (unless you had a question about developing the installer, then you are in the right place) [00:14] so, moving on, robert_ancell, TheMuso, RAOF, the A2 work item list looks complete to you [00:14] ? [00:14] Yes. [00:14] rickspencer3: yep [00:14] ok [00:14] i trying install ubuntu 10.04 and on the first screen on boot when dots show progress, no the screen is freeze [00:15] dado55, yah, so that's a good question for #ubuntu, but we aren't really equiped to help you with that here [00:15] we are working on 10.10 [00:15] so, moving on [00:15] I installed Parley last night [00:15] it's a useful Qt app, but it looks terrible on the desktop wrt integration [00:16] I would like us to work on making Qt apps look at home in Ubuntu [00:16] we agreed in the main meeting this would be a good A3 goal [00:16] if anyone is happy to pick this up sooner, that would be sweet [00:16] Are there any GTK/QT bits that can do that for us? [00:17] TheMuso, 1000100 <-- those i think [00:17] very funny DASPRiD [00:17] I know there's a native-qt-look-on-gtk engine and I think there's the reverse, too. [00:17] rickspencer3, i try to do my best [00:17] RAOF: ah ok, thats what I thought. [00:17] RAOF, I think the Gtk on KDE engine was dropped because it was too buggy and unmaintained [00:18] anyway, if you get a moment, feel free to look into it [00:18] if there is no volunteer, someone will have to get voluntold for A3 [00:18] :P [00:18] Oooh! And I remember a bug in the qt-on-gtk engine that would eat spreadsheets :) [00:18] It sounds fun, but… :) [00:18] hehe [00:18] ok [00:18] any other business? [00:19] not from me [00:19] Nor me. [00:19] nope [00:20] alrighty then [00:20] thanks guys [00:20] and nice job turning around UDS discussions into plans [00:20] I hope we'll be burning down work items today! [00:22] Excellent. This meeting was almost exactly 1 standard mesa build in length :) [00:22] be glad you don't have to write test cases for each work item :-) [00:22] RAOF, how is X treating you so far? [00:22] bryceh: quiet. We don't want to give management any more ideas now. [00:23] bryceh: Not too badly. There's a lot of mail, and things take too long to build, though :) [00:25] * bryceh nods [00:25] mesa is a beast [00:25] It doesn't help that we build it 5 times :) [00:27] YokoZar, hi [00:28] I see you volunteered to write a chapter for the Ubuntu Developer Manual [00:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/DeveloperManual [00:29] writing to files, urllib2 both need authors, if you are interested in either of those [00:29] thoughts? [00:35] errand, biab [00:44] Riddell, can you refer to me where an upstream tarball should not contain a PDF [00:49] robert_ancell: http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines #2 [00:50] and? [00:51] Riddell, I see no conflict [00:52] it's not preferred modifiable form, thus not free as in free software [00:53] Riddell, what are you talking about? There is nothing in that document stating that a file cannot be a PDF [00:54] Is the PDF built from a source file? People generally don't edit PDFs. [00:55] is a PDF preferred modifiable form? no, you don't edit PDFs (except through hacky means) you edit it as a ODF or a .doc or a text file or whatever [00:55] Riddell, the link you gave me has no reference to "preferred modifiable form" [00:56] "source code" is the equivalent there [00:56] Since when is a license file a piece of source code? [00:56] And even if it is, PDF is a documented standard. [00:57] we have lots of things in the archive which are not source code, regardless we require them to be free as in freedom and require the prefered modifiable form [00:57] images, documentation, anything [00:58] a standard isn't relevant here, it's not how you edit it [01:00] Riddell, even if this is true, and I strongly disagree with your interpretation here, you have rejected this package again - the reason given that the file is in the *source tarball*. Are you saying we should modify every source tarball to remove all PDFs? [01:01] yes, unless they are accompanied by their preferred modifiable form [01:01] Riddell, even if the debian/ patch contains the file in the "preferred modifiable form" [01:02] welcome to the world of archive admin pain, see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ArchiveAdministration#NEW handling [01:02] if the packaging contained the preferred modifiable form I think that would be acceptable [01:03] Riddell, which is exactly what I did at your request [01:06] then what are we arguing about? just point out my oversight and we're sorted :) [01:08] Riddell, ok, re-uploading. Thanks :) [01:08] for the record, this policy is just wrong from a technical/legal/logical standpoint [01:09] rickspencer3: I'll do the files part [01:09] kewl! [01:09] YokoZar, adding you to the wiki, I'm creating a team too, will add you there [01:10] one step ahead of me, I see [01:10] rickspencer3: also I noticed the launchpad/bzr section doesn't have an author, although you might want to delay that section a bit till you're confident how groundcontrol is gonna look [01:10] or get martin owens to just right it straight up [01:10] I don't think I'm going for ground control [01:11] *write [01:11] Fair enough [01:11] it doesn't seem focused enough yet [01:11] but when it's ready, we'll pull it in [01:26] Riddell, thanks! [01:27] I love that I can add people to a team without asking them [01:42] sir spamalot :) [02:53] robert_ancell: gconf builds for me now, uploading. [02:57] TheMuso, cool, thanks [02:57] np [04:12] To any folks out there who have multi-user desktop systems: please see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/40011 and add a confirmation or two to this bug if it affects you. This one is pretty serious yet does not get attention because most Ubuntu systems are single-user machines. Thanks. [04:12] Launchpad bug 40011 in gdm (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Three users switching leads to blank tty9 (affects: 6) (heat: 44)" [Low,Confirmed] === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [07:27] Good morning [07:30] Hi, ho, pitti! [08:05] good morning pitti, RAOF [08:21] TheMuso, you still here? [08:21] didrocks, hey, how is evolution going? [08:21] good morning robert_ancell [08:21] robert_ancell: yep [08:21] robert_ancell: all is merged (apart from evolution-mapi) [08:22] robert_ancell: it's working pretty well, but there are still some annoying crashers [08:22] didrocks, was that version 2.30 or 2.31 [08:22] ? [08:22] TheMuso, can you sponsor a new launchpad-integration? [08:22] robert_ancell: 2.30, it was already a big jump :) [08:22] robert_ancell: Sure. [08:23] robert_ancell: so, if you want to investigate 2.31 (if we want to update to the new version), do not hesitate [08:23] didrocks, nah, the less evolution I look at the better :) [08:23] I think we should also revisit the plugin seperation between -plugin and -plugin-experimental to follow upstream [08:23] but I don't have the time to do that right now [08:23] robert_ancell: heh, I agree. It gave me quite headaches :) [08:23] didrocks, just ran it now - tehe welcome screen doesn't fit on a netbook :/ [08:24] robert_ancell: yeah, that's not new :) [08:24] robert_ancell: let me know when its ready [08:24] TheMuso, ready now [08:24] robert_ancell: ok will do [08:24] TheMuso, thanks [08:24] robert_ancell: after talking to seb128, we removed some OEM patch as they have to transition them to gtkbuilder from bonobo [08:24] Maverick is slowly starting to look different to Lucid... [08:25] right :) [08:25] didrocks, right, do you know if upstream is interested in those sorts of patches? [08:25] you can't create some vapi file for instance :) [08:25] didrocks, vapi? [08:25] robert_ancell: I guess those patch were report some years ago [08:26] vapi is the vala introspection file [08:26] new gobject-introspection generate new .gir file format [08:26] and the vapigen which transforms .gir in .vapi doesn't work anymore [08:26] didrocks, ok, I've lost you, are we still talking about evolution? [08:26] didrocks, oh, is that broken in maverick? [08:26] robert_ancell: no no, I was just reacting from "Maverick is slowly starting to look different to Lucid" [08:27] right [08:27] that's pretty annoying and a lot of work, apparently [08:27] TheMuso, whoops, can you hold lpi for a second [08:28] robert_ancell: sure [08:28] TheMuso, I forgot to bump the version number in configure.ac. I notice that seb128 forgot last release too :) [08:28] TheMuso, pushed now [08:28] thanks [08:29] new shotwell almost ready... [08:29] robert_ancell: great \o/ [08:29] robert_ancell: oh btw, I had a lot at a multimedia store in the touchscreen with window7 embedded [08:29] robert_ancell: I tried some game like freecell and I must say that they look pretty shiny [08:30] didrocks, what device was that? [08:30] we are clearly late in this regard [08:30] robert_ancell: hum, some acer screen+computer in one device, sorry don't remember the name [08:31] but I think we can do some cool effect in using clutter in gnome-games [08:31] yeah, and the open-source app developers aren't going to make good apps until they have some real hardware [08:31] well, the touch isn't to blocker there [08:31] but the fancy graphics first [08:31] for instance, when you select a card [08:31] you have a glossy effect around it [08:31] when you move it, the card behind flips [08:32] well, I think it's not a lot to do if we try to use clutter [08:32] do you know where the clutter port is for gnome-games? [08:32] yeah, the platform is holding people back there. when clutter/vala/seed are easier to use this will start to happen [08:32] (I remember some demo with quadrapassel) [08:32] quadrapassel is clutter now, lightsoff is a new clutter game, same-gnome was rewritten with clutter [08:33] I think aisleriot can be consitionally compiled with clutter support [08:33] robert_ancell: I don't see some shiny effect in quadrapassel :) [08:33] afaik there is no push to migrate any other games at this time [08:34] didrocks, the effects are low by default due to performance (change theme in preferences) [08:34] quadrapassel has shiny effects - the blocks explode when disappearing! [08:34] let me have a try [08:35] but they could be better - we need some artists to go over gnome games and make that stuff [08:36] robert_ancell: ok, seeing what you tell, I was thinking about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US5BhxJSV2I [08:37] didrocks, oh, that is much cooler [08:37] robert_ancell: yeah ;) [08:37] I'll have to see how much work that would take to finish... [08:37] not sure where is robert carr branch [08:38] sweet :) [08:38] that's pretty ackward all the hard part of managing the game is already done, it's just now some layout details to make them "fresh" :) [08:39] if only I had more time… [08:39] didrocks, you don't need to sleep right? [08:39] robert_ancell: that's what I try to tell to my body, but it clearly disagree :) [08:47] robert_ancell: my plan for this week is to finish my GNOME merges btw (it's modest as I've plenty of other stuff to do, ETOOMUCHTODO :)) [08:49] didrocks, I know that error code. I'm working my way through the base packages which is slow, expect to speed up once get to the applications [08:49] dconf tomorrow hopefully... [08:49] sweet, that will rock! [08:59] robert_ancell: still test building launchpad-integratino, the install part of the build with dpkg takes quite a while when there is a lot of packages as build deps. :) [09:01] robert_ancell: launchpad-integration uploaded. [09:01] and EOD for me. [09:03] hey [09:10] TheMuso, and me too :) [09:10] TheMuso, thanks [09:10] bye [09:18] seb128: GNOME microreleases get uploaded into -proposed, right? what is the procedure for that? the same as the normal SRU procedures, or is there something different? [09:19] normal sru yes [09:19] is there any update you want to work on? [09:19] good morning seb128 [09:19] lut didrocks [09:19] seb128: yeah, banshee 1.6.1 [09:20] it's not a GNOME component [09:20] seb128: but it follows the GNOME release schedule. [09:20] i think we've been through this before. [09:20] still not a GNOME component [09:20] they are doing it for half a cycle now [09:20] yes it isn't a GNOME component. i was just wondering whether it was different for GNOME components. [09:20] half a cycle? [09:20] they didn't prove anything in regard of their ability to respect freezes for documentation, strings, etc [09:21] since when are they aligned on GNOME schedule? [09:21] er.. some months back. [09:21] half a cycle [09:21] ah [09:22] it's nice they are using the GNOME schedule now [09:22] but they don't have any of the GNOME team making sure they don't break any freeze, change strings, etc [09:22] they probably do fine but for now we want to check as for any SRU [09:22] check how? [09:23] translators are not going to complain at them if they break the GNOME string freeze since they are not part of GNOME [09:23] they are aligned on GNOME but not officially part of GNOME so don't get the checking other components get and they are free to break freezes they decided on if they want [09:24] i see. [09:24] but in practice that makes very few difference [09:25] meaning, if i wanted to get 1.6.1 into lucid-updates, what would i need to do? [09:25] do the update as for any sru [09:25] add the debdiff to the bug [09:25] somebody from ubuntu-sru will review it [09:26] okay, will do, thanks. [09:26] you're welcome [10:01] slomo, hey [10:01] slomo, could you look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619642 [10:01] Gnome bug 619642 in media profiles "The default MP3 profile is broken" [Major,Unconfirmed] [10:09] morning [10:18] seb128: added a comment, thanks [10:18] slomo, thank you [10:19] slomo, do you know when it has been deprecated? [10:19] lamemp3enc is there for how many versions? [10:41] didrocks, could you do the gtk-doc merge on debian? [10:42] seb128: finishing the evince one and can get this one on top of priority if you wish :) [10:42] didrocks, thanks [10:42] didrocks, some sources are depwaiting on the new revision [10:42] seb128: ok, will do today :) [10:42] thanks [10:42] you're welcome [11:13] seb128: .13 or .12 i think [11:14] seb128: docs say .12 [11:59] hum, I'm stuck with a merge of package. I tried a lot of workaround without any solution :/ [11:59] for evince, we split the package with libevdocument2 and libevview2, libevview2 depending on libevdocument2 [11:59] debian created a libevince2 containing the two packages. [12:00] I was thinking that might work, but apparently dpkg is silly? or is it me? http://paste.ubuntu.com/439829/ [12:00] (I have even changed the order of libevdocument2 and libevview2 to list libevdocument2 first as provides:) === DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:26] didrocks: you can't provide versions [12:26] slomo: Provides: libevdocument2, libevview2 I don't provide any version [12:26] didrocks: if something Depends: libevview2 (>= 1.2.3) and something else Provides exactly that, dpkg still won't install it [12:27] oh ok, so I have to remove the version dep on Conflicts/replace? [12:27] no, unfixable without a transitional package [12:27] you can't depend with a version on a virtual package [12:28] slomo: ok, I will provide a transitional package for that then. Thanks! [12:28] didrocks, don't take the debian split [12:29] I've kept the 2 libraries on purpose previous cycle [12:29] there is no garanty the soname will stay the same [12:29] what debian is doing there is stupid [12:29] seb128: really? I was just thinking my split was bad [12:29] seb128: ok, that's easier so (but more work for now to remerge) [12:30] don't remerge if that's worth it [12:30] ie if debian has nothing really interesting the get for us and there is too much diff that's worth the work [12:31] seb128: well, there is an additional -common package, I just need to tweak again the library, not a lof of work, can do now that the merge is almost done [12:31] we stopped merging some of the things we have over cycles [12:31] ok [12:48] seb128: I just talked to pochu and debian will take the same split (I'll commit that this week-end). Finishing my first merge now [13:04] didrocks, nice, thanks [13:04] robert_ancell, hey [13:05] robert_ancell, how are you? [13:05] robert_ancell, great work on maverick updates for the platform btw! [13:05] robert_ancell, do you work on pygi or dconf now? [13:06] I have pygi packaged but I can't get it to work [13:06] dconf tomorrow hopefully === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:07] robert_ancell, ok, let me know if you need testing or sponsoring [13:08] seb128, I've been annoying TheMuso to get them all done :) [13:09] when is the next meeting to review applications? [13:10] I just missed the last one, the page hadn't updated with the next date when I checked [13:10] ok [13:10] I still need one more endorsement [13:11] (now is your last chance everyone to unendorse me :)) [13:11] who did you get so far? me, pitti, ..? [13:11] * pitti holds up the fanboy poster [13:11] ;-) [13:11] robert_ancell: wasn't DMB yesterday? [13:11] yes [13:12] we should get mvo to do it [13:12] where is mvo? [13:13] seb128: who is the evolution expert? [13:13] didrocks, ... [13:13] robert_ancell: I'm by no mean an expert :) [13:14] didrocks, If they call me the compiz expert ;) [13:14] robert_ancell: ahah :) [13:14] pgraner, define expert? ;-) [13:15] pgraner, I've been packaging it and talking to upstream for some years [13:15] seb128: evo keeps segfaulting when I click on mail [13:15] seb128: on Maverick [13:15] pgraner, didrocks did the new version merges in maverick recently [13:15] pgraner, can you get a stacktrace of the crash? [13:15] pgraner, what version do you have installed? [13:15] pgraner, you run maverick before alpha2 ? you are insane !! [13:16] seb128: not sure the best way to debug this [13:16] pgraner: yeah, some emails make it segfault. I didn't have the time to have a look from it. But it's really some email, if you click on other (and are fast enough for it), there should be no issue [13:16] pgraner, gdb evolution [13:16] (gdb) run [13:16] crash [13:16] (gdb) backtrace [13:16] didrocks, debian had a fix for that no, didn't you merge it? [13:16] seb128: 2.30.1.2-2ubuntu1 [13:16] seb128: I was thinking it was this fix, I merged it and apparently it's not [13:17] pitti, did we have retracers on maverick yet? [13:17] no, we don't yet [13:17] pitti, and if not is that something you will look at or should I find some time for it? [13:17] I think it's still a bit early, but *shrug* [13:17] well, I have one email a day which makes it segfaults, but well… ETOOMUCHTODO (second time of the day) :) [13:17] well, it seems people run it and get crashes [13:18] seb128: I can, but at this point we'll get new versions faster than we can keep up with triage, no? [13:18] pgraner, open a bug with a stacktrace is the best you can do for now I think [13:18] seb128: but it's your call this time :) [13:18] pitti, well, I'm not saying to turn apport on [13:18] seb128: if you want me to set up maverick chroots, I can do that [13:18] pitti, having a retracer will just retracer what is sent [13:18] i. e. copy the lucid chroots and dist-upgrade [13:18] pitti, it will not create extra bugs [13:18] seb128: ack I'm running it now however under gdb is not crashing now [13:19] yay heisenbug [13:19] pitti, let's wait a bit [13:19] pitti, upgrades will likely break that early [13:19] and it's work to keep it running [13:19] those who run maverick that early can use gdb ;-) [13:20] seb128: ok it just died [13:21] seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/439864/ [13:21] * pgraner goes to file bug [13:22] pgraner, it seems it's in the plain text option [13:22] you might want to turn that off [13:22] it's a workaround not a fix but it might allow you to use evo [13:23] seb128: I hate html mail :-/ [13:23] pgraner, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612082 [13:23] Gnome bug 612082 in Mailer "Crash in em_format_snoop_type" [Critical,Unconfirmed] [13:27] seb128: is the plan to remove the gnome-system-tools completely in Maverick? [13:28] I'm wondering because shares-admin is completely broken in Lucid, but it might not be worth a proper fix if it goes away - a hack would do [13:28] not removing but stop installing it by default [13:29] OK [13:29] since there is the new user account dialog project now [13:29] so we need to do something about it [13:29] it means almost all gst uses are covered by other compoents now [13:29] yeah - not sure it supports adduser ATM but it should be nice [13:29] shares-admin is the only tool left, there's no real equivalent [13:30] we have nautilus-share [13:30] seb128: well turning off plain text didn't fix it, I'll have to go back to mutt until its resolved, it crashes on every other email I click on :-/ [13:30] yes, but to manage many shares... [13:30] shares-admin provides a central place, configuring NFS and Samba [13:30] pgraner, weird, did you restart evo? [13:30] seb128: yep 3 times [13:30] pgraner, it seems actively worked upstream though so it should be fixed in a decent timeline [13:31] seb128: cool [13:31] milanbv, right, not very desktopish usecase though [13:31] rather corporate one [13:31] seb128: maybe [13:31]