[00:11] <skwashd> hi all
[00:12] <skwashd> i had a client google download 8.04 server (or something similar)
[00:12] <skwashd> junior sys admin ended up downloading 8.04 from http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/
[00:12] <skwashd> he didn't run the updates
[00:12] <skwashd> i know it is pretty clear that he should have
[00:13] <skwashd> can i suggest that there be something a clearly shown at the top of all pages on old-releases.u.o telling people these are old releases and to grab the latest version from releases.u.o ?
[00:14] <handheldCar> skwashd: are you looking for #ubuntu-server ?
[00:14] <handheldCar> oh
[00:15] <stas> skwashd: depends on what iso he downloaded
[00:16] <skwashd> he grabbed 8.04 cos that is what he was told we needed
[00:16] <stas> I can see there 8.04.3
[00:16] <skwashd> from what i gather he is now having some trouble sitting comfortably  ;)
[00:17] <stas> he should since he didn't upgraded
[00:17] <skwashd> stas: yes ... but it doesn't make it clear to the inexperienced visitor that the releases are all out of date
[00:17] <stas> skwashd: it should not be written on website that you should keep the servers os up to date
[00:17] <skwashd> especially now with 3 live server LTS releases hardy and dapper are both "old releases" in some people's minds
[00:18] <stas> 8.04 lts is my favourite os for servers
[00:18] <stas> rock solid
[00:18] <handheldCar> actually, hardy won't be old until july and 10.04.1
[00:18] <skwashd> stas: or me ... a sysadmin with 10yrs+ experience ... i always install updates post install
[00:19] <stas> skwashd: so I don't need to tell you :)
[00:19] <skwashd> s/or/for
[00:19] <stas> it's his problem, either he installed lucid or hardy he now has updates for both
[00:19] <skwashd> all i am suggesting is that old-releases.ubuntu.org have some text with a link to releases.ubuntu.org
[00:21] <skwashd> stas: i am not saying he stuffed up ... i am just pointing out that there might be a case for making things easier for "human beings", rather than expecting everyone installing a server is an uber sysadmin
[00:21] <skwashd> s/i am not saying he stuffed up/i am not saying he didn't stuff up
[00:21] <skwashd> man ... i need to wake up more before starting discussions on irc
[00:22] <stas> skwashd: yeah I understand what you're saying, actually my opinion is that old-releases should be closed since it's confusing
[00:23] <skwashd> stas: i think that it does serve some purpose ... especially for development and testing ... but i think it is too accessible for inexperienced users
[00:24] <skwashd> stas: is there somewhere on launchpad i should file a bug report? or is there no point?
[00:24] <stas> skwashd: I think mirror@ubuntu.com are the guys that maintain some of those servers, might be wrong anyway
[00:24] <stas> also ping jpds he should know more
[00:26] <stas> and don't get mad if somebody's not responding, in europe its past midnight :)
[00:26] <skwashd> stas: what timezone is jpds in?
[00:26] <stas> europe i belive :)
[00:26] <skwashd> i know what time it is .eu - got clients there :)
[00:27] <skwashd> i will pm him and see what happens
[00:29] <handheldCar> It's almost ironic that you're asking for a notice that releases on *old*-releases.u.o are *old*, but it's easy to miss a url.
[00:29] <skwashd> handheldCar: but for a lot of people lucid is "current" ... dapper and hardy are "old"
[00:30] <handheldCar> really, no one should use a ltr for production until it reaches .1
[00:31] <skwashd> handheldCar: best practice !== common practice
[00:31] <skwashd> personally i find ubuntu alphas quite stable and things start to go down hill from beta1
[00:31] <skwashd> production servers are a different story tho :)
[00:34] <stas> i see no reason upgrading a hardy, maybe after they bring btrfs into it
[00:36] <skwashd> stas: for me glusterfs and a recent version of solr are 2 good reasons to run lucid servers
[00:38] <stas> yeah, those are good for clouds, but for home usage/standalone servers I can see no reasons
[00:39] <stas> thoug I think both can be backported into hardy (which I did with some newer packages I needed)
[00:41]  * handheldCar is looking forward to btrfs too.
[08:02] <skwashd> for completeness i discuss this with jpds and have filed a bug report against cdimages ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/585719
[08:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585719 in ubuntu-cdimage "old-releases.ubuntu.com doesn't tell uses images are out of date (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[14:05] <dieki> I see the new website is up. Great job!
[14:06] <dieki> It looks beautiful!
[14:07] <dieki> On Chrome at least, the text on the navbar is a tad bit hard to read.
[14:08] <dieki> Methinks it's because of the 1px drop shadow.
[14:10] <dieki> There are also stray pixels in the Forward\Backward buttons on the slideshow.
[14:11] <dieki> That's a Chrome-only issue, it seems.
[15:11] <dholbach> hey newz2000
[15:11] <newz2000> hey
[15:12] <dholbach> so yeah, I thought we'd do a clever thing by reusing a lot of the ubuntu.com theming instead of copying it around
[15:12] <newz2000> yeah, I did that too in one place
[15:12] <newz2000> dholbach: if you can get me the path to the files you need I can mirror it somewhere
[15:13] <dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439904/
[15:13] <dholbach> that should be it as far as I can tell
[15:14] <newz2000> dholbach: ok, I'm tracing through a maze of links and redirects but I'll have something in a little bit
[15:14] <newz2000> it will likely be a short-term workaround
[15:14]  * dholbach hugs newz2000
[15:14] <dholbach> awesome
[15:16] <newz2000> Wow, there's nothign like wading through your 3 year old hand-written code to make you feel humble. :-)
[15:16] <dholbach> :-)
[15:21] <mhall119> newz2000: has anyone talked to you about missing ubuntu09.css after the website update?
[15:21] <newz2000> as a matter of fact, yes. :-)
[15:21] <mhall119> okay, is there anything I can do to facilitate getting it back to where it's avaialble to loco.ubuntu.com?
[15:23] <dholbach> mhall119: newz2000 is chasing redirects right now :)
[15:24] <mhall119> even if we can just get a copy of the file, we can add it to the loco-dir sources
[15:24] <mhall119> otherwise we have to patch in css from -r 99
[15:24] <mhall119> which is quite old now
[15:24] <dholbach> I'm sure newz can fix us up somehow
[15:24] <mhall119> I tried to see if it was any easy thing, but no luck
[15:26] <reya276> guys one thing I must say is that I love the way you guys used the grid layouts
[15:26] <newz2000> mhall119: I'm actively working on this right now so we'll have something soon
[15:26] <stas> wow, when the update was rolled out? :)
[15:27] <stas> congrats btw
[15:37] <newz2000> dholbach, mhall119: try now
[15:37] <newz2000> And then we need to get these assets moved to a new source
[15:38] <dholbach> newz2000: looks great
[15:38] <dholbach> http://loco.ubuntu.com
[15:39] <newz2000> dholbach: can you guys mirror the source into your local branch?
[15:39] <newz2000> until the work on the new branding is done?
[15:39] <dholbach> will old branding always be wiped again?
[15:40] <dholbach> newz2000: ^?
[15:41] <newz2000> dholbach: no guarantees
[15:41] <newz2000> consider it "buying time"
[15:41] <dholbach> that's good to know, I thought that all the "node pages" could rely on the ubuntu.com theming somehow
[15:41] <newz2000> from Spads newz2000: but please get the word out if you can, this is a temporary stopgap
[15:41] <newz2000> dholbach: there is a community effort (right here in this channel) to make community themes with the new look
[15:42] <dholbach> right
[15:42] <newz2000> we'll be moving quick to get some work done on that so you can switch to the new look
[15:42] <dholbach> I'll copy it in for now - I was keen for us to inherit as much as possible and copy as little as possible
[15:44] <newz2000> dholbach: the new theme will have a base theme all the sub-sites can derive from so this model will be supported I believe
[15:44] <dholbach> ok
[15:47] <dieki> When will the wiki.ubuntu.com theme be updated?
[16:00] <dholbach> newz2000: is there going to be some kind of announce or is there a bug I subscribe myself to, so I know when we can drop all the nicked theming again?
[16:00] <newz2000> dholbach: I'm guessing that there's no intention to deliberately remove it, but instead it's just a bad idea to count on it being there
[16:02] <dholbach> newz2000: I was a happy man when I thought we had removed all "copy / pasted" theming from our code and just maintained our own stuff
[16:19] <mhall119> thanks newz2000
[16:20] <newz2000> ;-)
[17:14] <bihari> ?
[17:23] <thorwil> newz2000: if you move from http://www.ubuntu.com/netbook to /server, the logo on the right "jumps"
[17:24]  * newz2000 checks
[17:24] <newz2000> interesting
[17:26] <knome> newz2000, the "server edition" slide is distracting
[17:26] <knome> newz2000, the dots do not work that well on the arrows...
[17:27] <newz2000> ok, I think I might get overwhelmed with bug reports this way...
[17:27] <newz2000> I've posted thorwil's bug, knome: would you post yours to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/
[17:27] <knome> newz2000, do you consider that a bug?
[17:28] <newz2000> if you put it there my project manager will forward it to the designers to consider
[17:28] <knome> okay
[17:34] <knome> newz2000, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/585949
[17:34] <ubot4> knome: Error: Bug #585949 is private.
[17:34] <newz2000> thanks knome
[17:34] <knome> oh well... :)
[17:34] <knome> do you want to be subscribed, or can you do that yourself?
[17:38] <thorwil> ooh, do you want secret bug reports?
[17:38]  * thorwil clears the backlog too soon sometimes
[18:43] <bilalakhtar> Hello people, please see bug #585873
[18:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585873 in ubuntu-website "Page http://www.ubuntu.com/how-can-it-be-free is unreadable (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585873
[18:44] <bilalakhtar> opk, I got it. Its an overlay. Thanks, people
[19:37] <newz2000> stas: thanks for taking the lead on that email. I think you should wait about 30 min or so to see if a reply comes through then just pick your favourite choices from the options you outlined and reply as such.
[19:37] <newz2000> that will spur people with a passion on the subject to quickly speak up, and in case no one has a strong opinion you can begin without delay
[19:38] <newz2000> regarding fixed vs. fluid, there are benefits to both and you're going to upset half the world which ever is chosen
[19:39] <stas> newz2000: thanks, yeah you're right, if people don't get involved soon, they loose all the interest
[19:40] <stas> newz2000: yeah, about that, we can get some fixed width for website and see something more fluid for forums and wiki if the problem gains popularity
[19:40] <newz2000> good plan
[19:40] <stas> I just always hope for the best, thats why I proposed it :)
[19:42] <stas> basically the ubuntu-ru team work will give us a great boost if we accept it, but of course I would rewrite most of its html and css
[19:46] <newz2000> Someone has to take the reigns and drive it. :-)
[19:54] <newz2000> Ugh. kubuntu.
[20:51] <DJones> Is this thr right place to ask why http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download says "64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" A few people have asked why it says that in #ubuntu today & it'd be useful to be able to give them an answer
[20:56] <ianto> DJones: Probably because simply most computers support 32bits but not all support 64bits in the home today
[20:58] <DJones> ianto: Quite possibly, just seems that the wording sounds a bit odd, as though the 64 bit isn't stable enough for everyday use
[21:00] <ianto> I guess it's just a step to avoid people downloading the wrong architecture and then having a bad experience with the OS,  i.e. it wouldn't boot from the disk at all for them
[22:19] <newz2000> hey ryanakca, around?
[23:24] <ofirk> newz2000: hi
[23:24] <newz2000> hey ofirk
[23:24] <ofirk> newz2000: just saw the new website
[23:24] <ofirk> newz2000: great work!
[23:25] <newz2000> thanks (on behalf of the team that did the work)
[23:25] <newz2000> ofirk: did you see the email I sent you a bit ago?
[23:25] <ofirk> newz2000: yeah, and I fixed it.
[23:25] <ofirk> Thanks!
[23:25] <newz2000> awesome
[23:43] <cjohnston> newz2000: bug 585816
[23:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585816 in ubuntu-website "No styling on: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/partners/ (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585816
[23:43] <cjohnston> should the new theme already be on all pages?
[23:43] <cjohnston> got plenty of new bugs for ya