[00:09] why invalid [00:09] a friend forgotten to update his key. I must send him something [00:09] now kmail gives me options: 1) send him in an unencrypted way [00:10] I would like to remain free to have option 2) send him encrypted in a way that he will perhaps not be able to read, with warnings etc etc of course. (lets assume its a big problem to create new key now) [00:11] now I would have to force system clock to older date, send the email, restore date.. this is super retarded ;) (or hack code, or read manuals and perhaps by hand encrypt or rebuild gnupg) [00:12] so for me it falls into category "Im a computer, and you user are the tool - do what I say, you can not overrule me" [00:13] Actually, the computer is giving you choices as you just listed. [00:14] xelister: No; if there keys expired then it can't be used for signing or encrypted. [00:14] jpds: sure it can, just bypass the date check in kmail / gnupg lib something [00:15] charlie-tca: in kmail I can choose the outdated key, but if it is disabled [00:17] xelister: I think what jpds is saying is that it's by design [00:18] right, but I should overrule computer about skipping this warning, not reverse right? [00:19] xelister: no, it's by design of the way the keys are meant to work [00:19] xelister: you generally don't want to encourage people to do the wrong thing [00:19] yeah I would expect kmail would really DISencourage me, but in the end allow me to do it [00:20] just like fsck can run even on mounted fs if user /really/ wants [00:21] think of all the greate examples when computers have the finall decission... Matrix... HAL-9000 [00:21] Duke Nukem Forever timeline decissions [00:22] kind of a big jump into skynet, don't you think? [00:22] it's a philosophical question, should computer block user from stupid choices, even if user really really is sure he wants to (and have needed credntials, i.e. root can rm -rf) [00:23] xelister: the keys are no valid after the expiration date, that's why you can't use it [00:26] isn't it just an if () somewhere? [00:27] xelister: it's something that should not be done, that's why you won't see it, you have to remember the whole purpose for key encryption in the first place === blueyed_ is now known as blueyed [01:37] and, on any decent mail client with gpg support, all recipeints will be bothered with warning messages stating that the signing/encryption was done with an invalid key... [09:32] hm, anyone using php? there seems to be problems with php5-imap (still undefined imap functions after install?) [09:32] hmm oh ok, well it should just force apache reload (apache reload is needed to make php re-read config it seems) === bdrung__ is now known as bdrung [12:54] hi [12:56] i have a bug which could be a problem of rhythmbox or the software thatever calls it to open mp3s (i guess it's gnome) [12:56] so what do i do in doubt, starting at the 'top' (i.e. gnome) and let them decide whether it is a problem with rhythmbox or gnome? [12:56] what bug do you have? [12:57] i open a mp3 (with firefox for example) and it is associated with rhythmbox [12:58] so rhythmbox starts and plays a completely different song [12:58] seems a firefox bug [12:59] you're right if click on it the gnome file manager it is opened with exaile [13:00] does firefox has its own file type associations? [13:01] dunno but there is a bug open for years to have that code in gtk so firefox could use it [13:01] no point opening a new bug [13:01] is it the same bug? [13:02] or do you mean with 'no point' that it just won't get fixed because they don't fix bugs in firefox? [13:04] it's a known issue [13:04] no need to open duplicate bugs [13:04] seb128: it sounded like a complete different issue [13:05] your issue is that firefox software selection is buggy [13:05] which is a known issue [13:06] i want to keep track of it anyways [13:08] can i search a bug in launchpad? [13:14] seb128: i find it strange that you recommend me not to report the bug, as i have been told now a couple of times that it is better to open a new bug, in doubrt [13:14] i cannot find a matching bug report [13:16] PrototypeX29, that's because there are thousands of bugs reported against firefox [13:16] the issue has been reported though [13:16] a long time ago [13:17] PrototypeX29, we have lot of bugs opened, that one is known as said [13:17] the fact that you don't find it in launchpad doesn't mean it's not there [13:19] there should be at least an upstream report [13:19] PrototypeX29, there is [13:19] you just need to search for it ;) [13:20] i need to write that down somewhere, otherwise i will encounter the bug in a month and again try to report it [13:27] i think you were talking about this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/220504 [13:27] Launchpad bug 220504 in firefox-3.0 (Ubuntu) "Firefox doesn't know what apps to use to open any type of downloaded files (dup-of: 209607)" [Undecided,New] [13:27] Launchpad bug 209607 in firefox-3.0 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Open file with external application broken (affects: 3) (dups: 2) (heat: 44)" [Medium,Fix released] [13:28] i think it is a different problem [13:32] PrototypeX29, why do you think it's different issue? [13:32] i can reproduce it without firefox [13:32] convincing? [13:33] i can reproduce it without firefox file associations, but that was not my issue here [13:44] morning [13:50] with rhythmbox it is hard to know what is a bug and what is a feature [13:51] PrototypeX29, try to explain your bug clearly then [13:51] PrototypeX29, how do you trigger it without firefox now? [13:52] now i have two distinct problems (plus the known issue with firefox) [13:52] right i cannot reproduce the first bug because it isn't playing music anyways [13:53] i click on a song and nothing happens, no sound, no time progressing it just doesn't start playing the song [13:53] right, that's a known issue [13:53] in rhythmbox [13:54] that it does not play music? [13:54] it start only playing songs which are not in the library yet [13:54] no, that it doesn't start playing song given on the command line if they are in the library [13:54] it does not play any song right now [13:54] what happens when you click on the play button? [13:55] can you play songs in totem? [13:55] if a press play the song gets to be 'paused' [13:55] when i press it the first time just nothing happens [13:56] oh it stopped working with exaile too [13:56] seems an issue with the sound system then [13:56] not rhythmbox [13:57] yes in this case the only issue might be the missing error message [13:57] sound system seems to be fridged up to [13:58] no point to open a bug about the error message thing [13:58] we have ton of those [13:58] ok, i agree [13:58] they probably know [13:59] but still i would like to know what the problem with the sound system is [13:59] and as always, i don't have any clue on how the sound system is supposed to work [14:00] i know there is something called alsa which is supposed to manage different applications, and there is something called pulseaudio which is supposed to be completely unrelated, but is not, and then there is JACK what some applications seem to expect but cannot find [14:01] so error message i can give right now is 'sound does not work' [14:08] unfortunately not one player gives useful error messages on this [14:09] hmm problem was timidity blocking /dev/dsp [14:10] at least killall -9 timidity did help [14:10] may indicate a problem when this can happen, i don't know [14:14] seb128: you seem to be right with the original problem, it seems to be depending on whether a song already is in the database [14:22] i'm getting to old for this :( [14:30] Just noticed that http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/ doesn't list playing music files as one of its features, maybe it is no bug at all :) [14:31] indeed [14:31] you have to *feel* the rhythm in the box ;) [14:32] i don't get most of the music software, what happened to the simple mp3 playing thing? [14:33] mpg321 is one of the few programs who is able to just play a directory of mp3s [14:35] totem [14:37] with karmic i didn't have sound with totem [14:37] same now with lucid [14:37] now i rememnber why i deinstalled it [14:40] my sound totally sucks, but i don't know where to fix, what to fix or what bug to report [14:44] it's really sad that one of main appliacations for home/office use - kmail - is so horribly messed up in lucid. [14:45] worse than evolution? :) [14:45] dont use evolution so not sure [14:45] is evolution also messed up? [14:45] yes it is [14:46] now when people want to use Kmail, instead they get some crappy akonadi, not working address books, and nepomuku that causes seppuku [14:46] it's like with google's Buzz [14:46] the most used feauture of Buzz is to turn it the *** off =) [14:47] * xelister .oO dreams of a new feauture: [x] unstaill this akonadi/nepomuku bs from my system [x] forever [14:47] yes, i don't have money for windows either *g* [14:48] I own a legal windows and I could own dozen of copies [14:48] is it faster with dozens of them? [14:48] it works better on all computers I have [14:54] how do i search a bug in a specific project in launchpad? [14:57] PrototypeX29, for Ubuntu packages go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package and do the search there [14:58] thanks [14:58] guess i should bookmark that link :/ [15:01] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/218620 [15:01] Launchpad bug 218620 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "rhythmbox problem opening files from file browser (heat: 10)" [Low,Invalid] [15:01] why is it invalid? [15:03] hello, I noticed a bug in the xorg.conf manpage [15:04] Option "PreferredMode" is formatted so it's within the Option "Primary" section [15:07] PrototypeX29, that's a known issue and a duplicate [15:12] pedro_: it didn't say about a duplicate [15:12] even if you all know that it is a known, to the people reporting it is not [15:12] PrototypeX29, the last comment say so and i've marked it as such already [15:13] thanks [15:14] PrototypeX29: you also can see in the upper left column "duplicate of bug # ...." [15:14] charlie-tca: there was no such thing at the time [15:14] well neither at the upper right [15:15] where i usually look for this [15:15] yeah, sorry. Upper right column [15:18] looks like pedro just added this. Without having the duplicate bug entered it is not very easy to follow for the reporter, why the bug was closed as invalid [15:19] then it becomes just like 'There is nothing you can do about it, just go away' [15:22] PrototypeX29: good thing to keep in mind: whenever you comment a bug as a dup, mark it so [15:23] do i need privileges to do so? [15:23] no, you do not [15:23] i am still confused by thinkpad [15:23] are there policies when to link two bugs, which may be a duplicate but may be not [15:24] i usually only hint it in a comment when i think a bug might be related [15:25] PrototypeX29: you might want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage [15:26] i shouldn't start triaging, when i can't even manage to report all the bugs i am encountering :) [15:27] these are different activities [15:28] yes, and 1.) i assume triaging involves more politics and 2.) i shouldn't forget reporting bugs :) [15:31] like this one, i guess i need to be more specific https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/539397 [15:31] Launchpad bug 539397 in totem (Ubuntu) "no sound in movie player.... (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] [15:31] no triaging involves no politics at all [15:31] it should :) [15:31] PrototypeX29, do you have sound out of totem [15:31] ie in rhythmbox? [15:32] seb128: yes, this time i have [15:32] weird [15:32] they both use gstreamer [15:33] it doesn't make sense [15:33] i never had sound in totem, i think [15:34] PrototypeX29, it's likely an issue in your user config [15:34] try with a guest session? [15:35] the config of totem? [15:35] dunno what you are changing [15:35] you seem to have a weird config [15:35] i haven't changed anything in totem config, i just apt-got it [15:35] but i try with another user [15:36] you shouldn't need to apt-get it [15:36] it comes with Ubuntu [15:36] i think i removed it because it was useless [15:36] (having no sound and always being firefox first choice) [15:46] bad news: totem doesn't run with the other user either. good news: i found another bug crashing my systenm while switching users [15:50] pedro_: are you replying to the original poster in the bug i linked? [15:50] PrototypeX29A, try gst-launch playbin2 uri=... [15:50] to play the file [15:51] PrototypeX29A, in the totem bug? yes, your issue seems different though [15:51] PrototypeX29A, the reporter on that bug doesn't have any sound in the machine [15:51] pedro_: i didn't really understand the original poster but i assumed it to be the same problem [15:51] i then will open a new bug [15:53] seb128: i have an executable called 'gst-launch-0.10' which does not seem to be the same [15:53] PrototypeX29A, it is [15:54] after apt-get gestreamer-tools i got gst-launch [15:54] are there two different versions with different naming? [15:58] how to i give the paramter with gst-launch it doesn't find the file? [16:00] ah got it [16:00] PrototypeX29A, with uri=file:///path/to/file [16:00] missing a slash [16:00] it has got sound with gst-launch [16:04] hey all. i'm getting a blank page for , anybody else? [16:05] oh, it's back. [16:05] it could have a little bit more images and colours, but i wouldn't call it blank [16:05] lol, yeah it's not blank for me anymore :) [16:06] maybe a unicorn [16:06] :) [16:06] PrototypeX29A, totem does the same thing than gst-launch [16:06] it doesn't make sense [16:06] you set your mixer to 0 or something? [16:07] then i would have sound in the other apps, would i? [16:07] my mixer is set to 0 at every start-up, so i am sure i set it to some decent value :) [16:08] (but this again is another unrelated bug) [16:20] the debate on the mailing list really needs to go elsewhere... [16:25] +1, reminds me of a debate on one of the lists a while back about a piece of software that was "offensive" [16:27] 'fsck'? :) [16:28] being that the debate has religious implications it could go on forever... no joking either [16:32] bcurtiswx: right [16:40] +1 [16:40] hggdh had a very good reply.. if he were here i'd thank him for it [16:41] er, what? [16:42] wtg empathy [16:42] * bcurtiswx kicks emapthy [16:42] empathy* [16:43] well hggdh: according to empathy you aren't here.. :P [16:43] is it my imagination or have we closed 4k bugs since release [16:44] oh, OK (backlog read). This was confused by the original reclamants raising a theological issue -- wrongly, in my humble view. But I hope now we can put it to rest [16:44] hggdh: +1 [16:45] hggdh: agreed. Your email summarized, IMO, what the original response should have been from the get go. It's about respect. [16:45] * micahg doesn't like the idea of another person telling me something is offensive to me [16:45] hggdh: +1 [16:45] * micahg suggests people learn more history [16:46] history is to offensive [16:46] micahg: neither do I like it... [16:46] * bcurtiswx never liked his history classes [16:47] but it is so important, mostly when you find why things were done, and how the original reason was so limited [16:47] OK. off theology, into history ;-) [16:48] like with qwerty keyboard layout? [16:48] I learned a lot from them, don't get me wrong about that. [16:48] * micahg heard dvorak is for emacs junkies [16:48] It is not so much the idea of someone telling anyone what is offensive. It is offensive in the eyes of the Italian law. [16:48] micahg: no, because emacs sucks :) [16:48] charlie-tca: which is why I said what I did [16:48] * PrototypeX29A could not resist [16:49] charlie-tca: take out the word 'dio'. 'porco' would be the equivalent (when used for insulting) as a *series* of words and expressions in English, all of them pretty much stating you are a no-do-gooder [16:50] so, back to bugs discussion, did we really fix/close 4k bugs since release? [16:50] micahg: where do you see this? [16:50] micahg: the real Q is did we close 4k bugs for Lucid? [16:50] closing and fixing is not the same :) [16:51] PrototypeX29A: rest assured we know the difference ;-) [16:51] bcurtiswx: I only see 82.5k bugs open now and before there were 87k [16:51] but did we close them? [16:51] hggdh: no, this was after release [16:51] * micahg thinks it has to do with expiring busg [16:51] *bugs [16:51] micahg: is there an "expiring" status now? [16:51] er... "expired" [16:51] * charlie-tca thinks micahg has a point there [16:51] bcurtiswx: expired, yes [16:52] incomplete-without-response [16:52] but I can't remember how to view them [16:52] micahg: what bug has thsi (been interested in seeing this) [16:52] * bcurtiswx fails at typing this morning [16:52] yep, 4815 expired bugs [16:52] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=EXPIRED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_no_packag [16:52] I did not know expired bugs counted as closed [16:52] charlie-tca: they're no longer open ;) [16:53] * bcurtiswx is very glad to see an expired status [16:53] hggdh: i just wanted to mention it, for the case some people are just into closing bugs [16:53] PrototypeX29A: we discourage that [16:53] oh bloody hell. micahg, can you tinyurl this beast? [16:53] PrototypeX29A: ack [16:53] mine went right to it [16:53] :-O [16:53] hggdh: http://tinyurl.com/3a2wng2 [16:53] thanks [16:54] there's supposed to be a + flag for it, but idr [16:54] I take it that 'expired' can only be set by launchpad? [16:54] pedro_: do you remember the + flag for expired bugs? [16:54] when does a bug expire? [16:55] charlie-tca: I think so, would we need to be able to set expired? [16:55] bcurtiswx: not really. just wondering [16:55] PrototypeX29A: IIRC, after 60 days of incomplete-without-response [16:55] ic [16:56] i like "incomplete-without-response" as a status :D [16:56] micahg, you mean +expirable-bugs ? [16:57] i often read incomplete bugs with some copy and pasted message that it is incomplete, and i can't figure out which information is missing [16:57] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+expirable-bugs <- that one? [16:57] pedro_: i was a little confused as to whats changing with bugsquad-mentorship and us Mods. [16:58] pedro_: is that all there is, I thought there was one for expired ones as well [16:59] PrototypeX29A: this usually will happen when a question for more details/data was asked, and the OP did not respond [16:59] hggdh: yes but the question for mor details often is very generic [17:00] * bcurtiswx heads off to lunch, bbs [17:00] PrototypeX29A: when you see such a situation, please feel free to ask more specific questions [17:01] yes, now i do that, but at first i was a little bit discouraged [17:01] and just moved to another program [17:02] ugh, is there a way to get empathy to stop scrolling to new messages? [17:04] * hggdh does not know, weechat user [17:05] nerd :) [17:06] * charlie-tca uses weechat and xchat, both of which avoid that scrolling thing [17:06] * BUGabundo_remote uses pidgin , and has full control of scroll [17:06] heh. Do I hear some sort of potential bug on empathy? [17:06] but still I can never find how to find highlighted lines [17:07] I know there's an option for that... [17:07] Doesn't sound like an issue here ;-) [17:07] grep hggdh [17:07] * micahg is with BUGabundo_remote :) [17:08] er, sorry, forgot the '/' [17:45] * penguin42 grrrs at launchpad timeouts [17:49] * BUGabundo_remote hands an hammer to penguin42 [17:49] have you got a bigger one? [17:49] ooh - that worked [17:51] see? [17:51] never dough of a good hammering [17:53] PrototypeX29A, bah, you opened that totem bug anyway now? [17:55] seb128: yes, why not? [17:55] because it doesn't seem a totem bug and is sort of useless [17:55] it's just adding noise [17:55] shrug [17:55] why isn't it a totem bug? [17:55] I guess it's going to be added to the thousand of bugs that will stay in the noise and never get worked [17:56] because totem just uses gstreamer to play sound [17:56] yes but the other gstreamer applications work [17:56] well then it's a local configuration issue [17:56] or a mixer one [17:56] then there is something wrong with the default configuration [17:57] there is something wrong with your configuration [17:57] nobody else is having this issue [17:57] is there any documentation on the new Expired status? [17:57] so i am not supposed to report the bug, as nobody else is having an issue? [17:57] you can [17:57] it's just useless [17:57] how do you know, if you discourage reporting it? [17:57] I'm the one on the receiving end [17:57] dgtombs: It's just a "incomplete-too-long" status [17:57] and as said I've no clue about it and it's not likely we will ever work on it [17:58] ok, so should it be added to Bugs/Status on the wiki? [17:58] isn't it supposed to work in a fresh install? [17:58] PrototypeX29A, sorry ignore that, not really constructive, we just have too many useless bugs, it almost make the tracker useless some days [17:59] dgtombs: yes, feel free to add it [17:59] i just think it is an issue, it might even be on the live system [17:59] PrototypeX29A, well it does work for everybody else but you, there is something screwed in your system but without having the issue I've no clue how it can be worked [18:00] i guess expired bugs still show up in searches, unlike invalid? [18:00] PrototypeX29A, right, I'm just saying that the bug tracker is used to get bugs resolved not to collect issues [18:00] PrototypeX29A, it's just that the bug is useless and I've no clue what we could ask to make it useful [18:00] dgtombs: yes, IMHO i think they should, since if the bug can be repeated after its expired it can be re-opened [18:01] PrototypeX29A, which means it will stay here this way for years most likely [18:03] seb128: i just do my best reporting the bugs, it is for you t decide what to do with it [18:04] PrototypeX29A, right, I did set it to incomplete now with question [18:04] but it also might help other people having the problem [18:04] unfortunately they don't show up in default searches :( [18:04] PrototypeX29A, it's likely it will ping pong until I've no question but still not clue and expire [18:04] but i guess that makes sense [18:04] PrototypeX29A, the bug tracker is not meant to help other users it's meant to work on solving issues [18:05] then it might help someone solving it [18:05] i'd try isolating the call of gstreamer in a testcase, if i'd find some time [18:06] unfortunately totem isn't very verbose on its call and doesn't seem to offer any flags for being verbose [18:07] try GST_DEBUG=3 totem [18:07] or 5 [18:11] hm I can't seem to set a bug to Expired myself. is it bugcontrol only? [18:12] maybe it is not a totem bug, but ubuntu sound in general, but this deserves attention too [18:12] i do understand that you don't want to solve the configuration problems of other people, but this is likely to be a bug and can be fixed [18:13] PrototypeX29A: he's just saying it's a bug that's very hard to diagnose, and thus will probably never be fixed [18:13] unless you can fix it yourself... [18:13] dgtombs: it is launchpad only [18:14] They are set expired by launchpad itself, after 60 days incomplete [18:14] charlie-tca: what does that mean? [18:14] oh [18:14] but i saw _people_ setting it [18:14] How? [18:14] bug 352188 [18:14] There is no listing under status for it [18:14] charlie-tca: looks like BC can set it too [18:14] Launchpad bug 352188 in linux (Ubuntu) "Jaunty failed find SonyEricsson (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352188 [18:15] I am bug control [18:15] dgtombs: the problem is, i think, that if the configuration is in a wrong state i won't find out because i don't know how the configuration should be [18:15] this is why we need official documentation on it... [18:15] click on that little pencil. There is no status for expired [18:15] charlie-tca: me too , & i can see the expired status [18:16] Then it is very limited personel [18:16] my sound is messed since i installed ubuntu, i don't know whether the tools i use are buggy or my configuration just got fridged up [18:16] PrototypeX29A, the issue is not to want or not [18:16] PrototypeX29A, it's having some ten thousands open bugs and being able to work on only a few a week [18:17] PrototypeX29A, we should get less bugs but the revelant ones, we don't have ressources to investigate things happening to one user [18:17] how do you know it is only me? [18:17] ah forget about it [18:17] PrototypeX29A: you can also file a question and can later convert it into a bug when there is more info , [18:19] i don't know how to put my confusion on linux sound in one question :) [18:19] PrototypeX29A: then is would be an even worse confusion as a bug ;) [18:19] s/is/it [18:21] no, it is easier to assume that a video player is supposed to play videos (and sound), than to guess HOW it is going to do that internally [18:23] Someone please mark bug #586790 as triaged and low importance [18:23] Launchpad bug 586790 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Typo in --help of apt-add-repository (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586790 [18:27] bilalakhtar: Done. [18:27] aburch: thanks [18:28] PrototypeX29A, it's calling gstreamer, ie equivalent to what gst-launch playbin2 does [18:28] PrototypeX29A, do you get the issue on ogg as well? [18:28] PrototypeX29A, is the slider moving as if it was playing or not? [18:29] yes the slider is moving with audio files, that was what i meant with 'progress bar' [18:29] with GST_DEBUG=2 i get the message: Unhandled element message playbin2-stream-changed from play: element message from element 'play': playbin2-stream-changed, uri=(string)file:///home/peter/Downloads/filename.avi [18:29] i don't know whether this is helpful [18:30] you get the issue on videos as well then? [18:30] yes both [18:30] on ogg? [18:31] the stream change warning is not the error [18:32] yes ogg too [18:32] did you try opening the mixer in gnome and making sure the application volume is set? [18:32] do you see totem listed in the mixer dialog? [18:32] gnome-volume-control application tab [18:32] while playing something [18:33] hi there is some bug in the network manager that's not allowing me to connect to internet [18:34] you were right, it was a configuration problem [18:35] there was no volume set? [18:35] it was muted [18:35] see ;-) [18:36] the discussion at least helped you to figure that [18:36] i was able to connect to net in 9.04 [18:36] thanks :) [18:36] you're welcome [18:36] could you close the bug report? [18:36] yes [18:36] thanks [18:36] that's what I meant by bug reports are often a one user issue rather than a bug [18:37] solving those are useful [18:37]