[04:25] <pwnguin> was libdns53 updated recently?
[04:27] <ScottK> Probably.  Launchpad knows for sure.
[04:28] <pwnguin> hmm
[04:29] <pwnguin> actually, maybe its me and not libdns/lp
[04:29] <pwnguin> but is (.= 5.3.6) a valid versioned dependency?
[04:30] <pwnguin> dpkg doesn't seem to think so
[04:30] <ScottK> Current version is 1:9.6.1.dfsg.P1-3ubuntu0.3
[04:30] <pwnguin> i had some system instability today, but it seems odd that i would lose one specific character in a few fields
[04:31] <pwnguin> the number was made up, sorry
[04:32] <pwnguin> here's a concrete example from /var/lib/dpkg/available
[04:32] <pwnguin> Depends: libc6 (.= 2.3.4-1), python-2.3
[04:32] <ScottK> What package?
[04:33] <pwnguin> python2.3-egenix-mxtools
[04:34] <pwnguin> is there a way to just clear out /var/lib/dpkg and let apt rebuild it? cuz i dont really trust it right now
[04:35] <ScottK> Well first, that is an incredibly ancient package.
[04:35] <pwnguin> i know
[04:35] <ScottK> If you don't trust /var/lib/dpkg, why do you trust the rest of the system?
[04:35] <pwnguin> well, it's running, so there's that
[04:36] <ScottK> That may be just because stuff hasn't been re-read off of disk.
[04:36] <pwnguin> i just rebooted like twenty minutes ago
[04:36] <pwnguin> and looked at the file in question with emacs
[04:37] <pwnguin> this system has been dist-upgraded from 4.10 for the past 5 years
[04:37] <pwnguin> so im willing to chalk the ancientness of this particular package to a cache that was never cleaned
[04:38] <ScottK> Why don't you pick a non-ancient package and we'll compare results?
[04:38] <pwnguin> because that's the one dpkg is failing on
[04:39] <pwnguin> ok
[04:39] <pwnguin> found the command
[04:39] <pwnguin> dpkg --clear-avail
[04:40] <pwnguin> heh
[04:40] <pwnguin> apparently my solution of moving the file was bad, but --clear-avail just makes a new empty file and thats okay
[04:41] <pwnguin> anyways, mystery 1 of ten solved
[04:43] <pwnguin> ok, now ext3 just went to readonly mode. it may be time to retire this machine =(
[04:54] <lokpest> has the idea of not having separate distros for each desktop enviroment but instead let people choose DE at install time been discused?
[04:54] <cody-somerville> Yes.
[04:55] <lokpest> general conclusion? any links?
[04:56] <cody-somerville> We want the install to be as simple as possible.
[04:56] <cody-somerville> No need to bother someone with that question who might not understand it.
[04:56] <lokpest> ok, but then it should be an advanced option
[04:56] <stenten> Also, how would you get all that onto a LiveCD?
[04:57] <cody-somerville> 1. Its possible to install different desktop environments very easily for folks who want to. 2. If someone wants a specific desktop environment, they just download the appropriate CD.
[04:57] <cody-somerville> and stenten also makes a very very very good point.
[04:57] <lokpest> its not like everybody has to partion there drives, thats the advanced option
[04:57] <cody-somerville> We agree with you.
[04:58] <lokpest> ok, but that was an argument against "being as simple as possible"
[04:58] <cody-somerville> how so?
[04:59] <cody-somerville> Oh, I see what you mean.
[04:59] <cody-somerville> regardless, we still can't fit multiple desktop environments on one CD
[04:59] <lokpest> not everyone has to partition, but you can if you want to. not everyone should be forced to pick a DE (default for gnome)
[05:00] <stenten> If you wanted that option, you'd have to have a minimal install, and then reboot into a barebones machine and install the DE.
[05:00] <stenten> Why would we do that to users?
[05:01] <stenten> And it would also mean the LiveCD wouldn't be an option, because you wouldn't have the space for an Ubuntu live environment along with all the Qt packages of Kubuntu.
[05:01] <lokpest> the CD is a dying medium
[05:01] <cody-somerville> oh please, lets not get into that argument
[05:01] <cody-somerville> there are tons of people around the world who still use CDs and who have very poor internet connections
[05:02] <lokpest> ok, but there could be an alternate medium install?
[05:03] <cody-somerville> there is
[05:03] <cody-somerville> its called xubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, etc.
[05:03] <lokpest> meh
[05:04] <lokpest> Canonical favors gnome
[05:06] <lokpest> the reason for my question is, if I want to use a distro based on ubuntu that does ony come with gnome preinstalled, how do I remove all gnome and gnome apps? sure I can install kubuntu-deskop, but removing ubuntu-desktop is much more tiresome...
[05:07] <lokpest> as removing the meta-packages dont remove all the apps
[05:08] <cody-somerville> you download the Kubuntu CD
[05:08] <lokpest> ....
[05:08] <lokpest> I dont want kubuntu
[05:09] <cody-somerville> If you remove gnome and install kubuntu-desktop, you pretty much what you'd get if you installed the Kubuntu CD
[05:09] <lokpest> I want the kubuntu-desktop of the ubuntu-derivative
[05:09] <cody-somerville> Do you not understand that Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu are all built out of the same archive and share the same base set of packages?
[05:10] <lokpest> yes I do
[05:10] <lokpest> but removing ubuntu-deskop doesnt remove all non kubuntu apps
[05:10] <cody-somerville> it does nothing, its a meta package
[05:10] <lokpest> there will still be software that are not kde
[05:11] <cody-somerville> wow, thats even a more corner case
[05:11] <stenten> lokpest: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde
[05:12] <cody-somerville> stenten, he doesn't want pure kde
[05:12] <cody-somerville> stenten, he wants the tainted, lol
[05:12]  * stenten facepalms
[05:13] <lokpest> stenten: ty!
[05:13] <stenten> rofl
[05:13] <cody-somerville> lokpest, That'll give you what you'd get if you installed Kubuntu....
[05:13] <lokpest> yes
[05:13] <lokpest> and i dont want kubuntu
[05:14] <lokpest> I want trisquel
[05:14] <lokpest> but trisquel only comes with gnome
[05:15] <stenten> you can run gtk apps on kubuntu...
[05:16] <lokpest> but I know I could install kubuntu-desktop, but that didnt solve the problem that stentens link solves
[05:16]  * lokpest dislikes where ubuntu is going freedome-wise
[05:17] <stenten> Couldn't you just install Kubuntu and then install trisquel?
[05:17] <stenten> i'm so confused :(
[05:17] <lokpest> huh?
[05:17] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, this is starting to get off topic for this channel.
[05:17] <lokpest> trisquel is a distro based on ubuntu
[05:21] <lokpest> right, mentioning that you dont like Canonicals policies regarding proprietary software is not allowed
[05:21]  * lokpest *notes down*
[05:28] <ScottK> stenten: That link doesn't do what it says it does.  The standard Kubuntu install is not pure KDE.
[05:30] <lokpest> sadly no
[05:31] <lokpest> it installs OO.org and shit
[05:32] <lokpest> why anyone would want a word processor beats me
[05:32] <stenten> My bad. Thanks for letting me know.
[05:35] <lokpest> I dont know why I let other people pick aplications for me
[06:52] <asac> lokpest surely can use the alternate installer and start from zero ;)
[06:57] <ion> asac: He’d still have Linux, the GNU coreutils, an init daemon etc. chosen for him! Even that’s obviously too little control.
[06:58] <asac> lol
[06:59] <wgrant> Anybody up for a derivative that doesn't even include coreutils?
[06:59] <wgrant> I think it's a useful market to expand into.
[07:01] <asac> i can release the "empty" derivate ;)
[07:02] <ion> But... but... by installing it, you’re still picking the empty for me!
[07:03] <aburch> ion: Debian at least has a FreeBSD kernel as well. :)
[07:03] <asac> empty is nothing so i am not picking anything ;)
[07:03] <wgrant> Indeed, we'd still be choosing a set of applications :(
[07:03] <wgrant> We cannot win.
[07:04] <ion> asac: [] is just as valid a set of stuff as [linux, coreutils, ...] ;-)
[07:04] <asac> [] != NULL
[07:04] <asac> i go for the NULL
[07:05] <asac> but yeah. i think there is always the DIY derivate
[07:09] <aburch> Does libmediawiki-perl have any rdeps in Ubuntu?
[07:09] <wgrant> At least not in lucid.
[07:11] <mneptok> no coreutils? maybe then RMS will let everyone call it just "Linux"
[07:11] <ion> Hah
[07:11] <wgrant> Haha.
[07:15] <mneptok> "why anyone would want libc is beyond me. i just want a word processor."
[10:09] <siretart> fta: can you please file a bug about that? the issue is more complicated as it looks on the first sight, and I think that should be documented in a bug
[11:37] <fta> siretart, bug 587203
[11:39] <siretart> fta: I see. hm. I'm pondering if I should add Breaks to libavcodec on mplayer
[11:40] <siretart> whay do you think?
[11:43] <fta> unsure. A rebuild of mplayer + a deps libavformat52 (>= 4:0.6) should be enough,
[11:43] <fta> i see you have a new mplayer to merge
[11:43] <siretart> ok
[11:44] <siretart> also note my comment on the bug
[11:45] <ion> If a new version of a library breaks existing stuff that uses it, shouldn’t there be a soname bump?
[11:47] <siretart> ion: a) the symbol in question was an unpublished, private symbol which mplayer should not have referenced in the first place, and b) the soname was bumped for libavutil49 -> libavutil50
[11:47] <fta> yep, it should. libavutil just got one (49->50)
[11:47] <fta> oh
[11:48] <siretart> in order to adress the transitive dependency problem, I've introduced symbol versioning, both upstream and in the package
[12:01] <lool> mdeslaur: Sorry, missed your note on virt-manager; just uploaded my own merge
[12:01] <lool> mdeslaur: Please replace with yours if I missed anything
[12:15] <fta> siretart, can't you just backport the ftbfs fix from rc4 to rc3?
[12:49] <siretart> fta: a) - there is not even a rc4 branch yet and b) there has been over a year of active development in libswscale, and we are talking about implementation internals that are used in the more obscure parts of mplayer. I'm currently discussing them upstream for exactly this reason.
[12:50] <fta> siretart, do you mean it's also broken in debian/unstable?
[12:51] <siretart> fta: debian/squeeze will ship ffmpeg 0.5, so I won't upload ffmpeg 0.6 to unstable. period.
[12:51] <fta> oh, I didn't know that
[12:52] <siretart> fta: if you would install ffmpeg from experimental, then yes, mplayer will break
[12:53] <siretart> however maverick has just opened, so its a perfect time to see how many and what packages break with ffmpeg 0.6 :-)
[12:53] <siretart> mplayer was pretty obvious to me
[12:57] <siretart> fta: btw, I really lot of folks have demanded to include ffmpeg 0.6 for lucid. in fact, the package was even ready in time, but now you know why I've rejected that :-)
[13:01] <Chipzz> ion: soname versioning? the mplayer project? surely you are kidding? :)
[13:02] <fta> siretart, i'm a heavy user of mplayer since ~2001, i've built it from cvs/svn for many years, i know how painful it is
[13:02] <Chipzz> iirc the best known project for NOT using sonames properly is mplayer and assorted side-projects
[13:03] <siretart> please stop spreading FUD. a) mplayer doesn't provide any shared libs. at all. and b) I've joined ffmpeg upstream exactly for this reason
[13:04] <fta> siretart, yesterday, i was caught in that bug so i just downgraded ffmpeg to finish what i was doing. now i'm willing to give a try at whatever solution you may have
[13:05] <siretart> fta: as indicated, I'd drop the build dependencies on libavcodec-dev, libavformat-dev, etc. and build statically against the included copy as interim hack
[13:05] <siretart> in parallel, work upstream on getting rc4 in shape
[13:11] <Chipzz> siretart: good to know you're working with upstream. not wanting to sound sarcastic, but any success in what you're trying to do (which I assume is trying to convince them of the merrits of a more stable API)?
[13:17] <siretart> Chipzz: depends on what you mean with stable API. if you mean 'no changes' - that would also mean no development and more features.
[13:17] <siretart> Chipzz: if you mean 'no backwards incompatible changes', that's fairly a non-issue since years
[13:18] <siretart> Chipzz: the fact that many projects use unpublished headers internals that are subject to change cannot be solved from within ffmpeg. those projects needs to work with upstream to get that functionality public or stop using it
[15:14] <blue_anna> is the system strftime the one in gnulib package? just a bit confused because I was expecting a something -dev
[15:17] <StevenK> blue_anna: No, you want libc6-dev for strftime
[15:17] <blue_anna> StevenK: thank you
[15:20] <blue_anna> StevenK: I have the libc6-dev installed instead of the libc6-dev-ppc64, and libc6 instead of libc6-ppc -- would that cause problems? :) I was just about to try to debug why strftime's %P and %p weren't working
[15:20] <blue_anna> I'm on a powerpc architecture :)
[15:24] <blue_anna> you know, I installed gnulib and %p started working
[15:24] <blue_anna> lol what a crazy system
[15:24]  * wise_crypt is away: need a rest, tired looking a fast channel :)
[15:36] <blue_anna> I just noticed that my system does not have installed the libc6-ppc64 library but does have the libc6 standard. I've been noticing plenty of odd little behaviors and a general slowdown of applications and I'm starting to think it is that the powerpc architechture was built against the wrong set of libs
[15:36] <blue_anna> any idea how I can scan for libraries that have a -ppc64 alternate that is not installed, when the base library is?
[16:00] <Q-FUNK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/587186
[16:00] <Q-FUNK> is this for real?
[16:04] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: what are you doing?
[16:04] <Q-FUNK> blue_anna: come again?
[16:05] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: the page you linked wasn't loading :) I see it now
[16:06] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: you've got the wrong architecture package for libc for some reason
[16:06] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: i386 instead of i586 for your system, looks like
[16:06] <Q-FUNK> blue_anna: no, I don't.  see doko's answer to the bug.
[16:07] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: the only responces I see in there are from Martin
[16:07] <Q-FUNK> blue_anna: we never had i586 packages.  i386 has always implied i386 and newer x86 arch.
[16:07] <blue_anna> ok, but it says in the log Uname: Linux 2.6.32-10-generic i586
[16:07] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: what's uname -r say? just to verify -- I mean, if that still works :S
[16:08] <Q-FUNK> that's the cpu architecture on the hardware as reported by uname.
[16:08] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: can you link me the specific responce you meant? I don't see any responces from any "doko"
[16:08] <azeem_> blue_anna: Matthias
[16:09] <azeem_> Q-FUNK: so your question is whether 10.10 will only support i686 or not?
[16:09] <blue_anna> I need a link -- there's no Matthius on the page either, taht I see
[16:09] <azeem_> "Matthias Klose wrote 2 hours ago:"
[16:09] <azeem_> blue_anna: maybe you opened the wrong link
[16:09] <Q-FUNK> azeem_: if that's the case, it should be advertised in a more blatant way.
[16:09] <blue_anna> Ah no, its that Matthias and Martin look very much alike :)
[16:10] <azeem_> Q-FUNK: it will be in the release notes I guess
[16:10] <blue_anna> Q-FUNK: can you roll it back from live cd?
[16:10] <Q-FUNK> azeem_: you'll notice that this decision will essentially kill LTSP on Ubuntu, btw.
[16:11] <chrysn> when modifying a debian /contrib package for ubuntu, should it go to universe or multiverse?
[16:11] <azeem_> blue_anna: I don't Q-FUNK ask for support
[16:11] <azeem_> asks*
[16:11] <Q-FUNK> blue_anna: yeah, that's not a problem.  the real problem is ubuntu distributing packages marked as i386 that are really meant for i686.
[16:11] <azeem_> eh, that's not the problem
[16:11] <blue_anna> ok, yea that's a problem
[16:11] <azeem_> i386 is the processor architecture
[16:11] <blue_anna> glad to hear you're system's not fried :)
[16:12] <azeem_> that 10.04 already requires i586 I guess, 10.10 would just bump it to i686
[16:12] <chrysn> (it's in contrib as it depends on libcgal, which is qpl and therefore in nonfree)
[16:12] <Q-FUNK> azeem_: libc6 was built with -m686, if doko's reply means anything.
[16:36] <bluefoxicy> this is strange
[16:36] <bluefoxicy> I have trouble connecting to a wifi access point
[16:36] <bluefoxicy> what happens is when I connect to it properly, iwconfig shows the correct ESSID
[16:36] <bluefoxicy> wlan0     IEEE 802.11bg  ESSID:"Public Hotspot - BIHS"
[16:36] <bluefoxicy> However, in other times when it refuses to connect...
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid dogs
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo iwconfig
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> wlan0     IEEE 802.11bg  ESSID:"dicks"
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid "Public Hotspot - BIHS"
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ sudo iwconfig
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> wlan0     IEEE 802.11bg  ESSID:"%\xCF\x08\xF5\xE9\xE2^S`\xAA\xD2\xB2\xD0\x85\xFAT\xD85\xE8\xD4f\x82d\x98\xD9\xA8\x87uepZ\x8A"
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> er.  Censor fail <_<;
[16:37] <bluefoxicy> Ignore the output of my turrets.
[16:38] <bluefoxicy> at any rate a second try does this
[16:38] <bluefoxicy> wlan0     IEEE 802.11bg  ESSID:"?b\x80)D\xDE|\xA5\x89NWY\xD3Q\xAD\xAC\x86\x95\x80\xEC\x17\xE4\x85\xF1\x8C\x0Cf\xF1|\xC0|\xBB"
[16:38] <bluefoxicy> and so on.  Constant garbage
[17:01] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: I'm presuming that doko didn't follow the link from ProcVersionSignature/Uname in the bug report. Otherwise, were you aware of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-686-compile ?
[17:02] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: I wasn't aware of it and now that I am I cannot agree with it.
[17:11] <ScottK> Until you convince someone to change the design decision, it's pretty clearly not a bug.
[17:12] <Q-FUNK> ScottK: bedian went through this one when they bumped up the minimal requirement on sparc.  it would be a good idea to follow what they did, to prevent upgrades from taking place on older hardware.
[17:12] <Q-FUNK> debian, even
[17:13] <ScottK> I think that's a valid point.
[17:13] <ScottK> If you reframed the bug that way, I think it's reasonable.
[17:16] <Q-FUNK> ScottK: well, there is a larger issue at stake:  building with anything newer than -m586 essentially kills the whole LTSP project's ability to run on Ubuntu, since most terminal hardware is 586 generic.
[17:18] <Q-FUNK> noticing that the blueprint for that m686 idea is a blank template also makes the proposal rather suspicious.
[17:19] <crimsun> I trying (and failing miserably) to find a recent mailing list post regarding the UDS-Maverick Foundations outcomes, but there's http://oubiwann.blogspot.com/2010/05/ubuntu-foundations-and-maverick-meerkat.html
[17:22] <jpds> Q-FUNK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/441398/
[17:24] <Q-FUNK> jpds: interesting.
[17:24] <crimsun> oh good, I was having problems connecting to the gobby doc
[17:26] <Q-FUNK> all this shows is tha choosing m686 was more of a me-too choice than a properly planned change.  m586 wasn't properly investigated, according to that.
[17:27] <Q-FUNK> it also shows that whoever is gonna upgrade from lucid to lucid+lts is gonna have a nasty surprise.
[17:27]  * ogra_tb is pretty sure update-manager will have proper warning mechanisms builtin by then
[17:31] <Q-FUNK> ogra_tb: back when debian bumped the sparc requirement, they installed a check in libc6's preinst script.   if the hardware was no longer supported, the package refused to be updated.
[17:31] <blue_anna> what provides all the fstab functionality? getmntent(), etc
[17:31] <ogra_tb> well, there are more elegant ways in ubuntuu
[17:33] <Q-FUNK> update-manager is not one of them.  it wouldn't be foolproof
[17:37] <ogra_tb> solutely foolproof
[17:38] <ogra_tb> *it's absolutely
[17:38] <ogra_tb> and already has such checks for ARM
[17:57] <blue_anna> is 10.10 on eglibc2.12 or still 2.11?
[17:58] <Q-FUNK> today was the first 2.12 snapshot upload
[18:07] <aburch> I have one backport request which was ack'ed a month ago but hasn't been uploaded since (LP #550880). Is there anything left to do?
[18:13] <blue_anna> anyone know what handles the UUID /LABEL translation in /etc/fstab? from the manpages you would think it is mntent.c but I just read that and mntent_r.c and its not there.
[18:14] <blue_anna> so I grepped the entire eglibc tree for UUID and it's nowhere in the code
[18:19] <blue_anna> just trying to find a foothold
[18:20] <geser> blue_anna: try looking at libblkid1 as its description seems to match what you look for (and mount depends on it)
[18:22] <blue_anna> geser: thank you
[20:00] <blue_anna> anyone here use yaml in C?
[20:18] <ScottK> aburch: No.  It just waits an archive admin to process it.
[21:19] <stefanlsd> nigelb: heys. give me a shout when your around. exams finished, so can spend some time on cleansweep
[21:19] <blue_anna> stefanlsd: you had exams last week?
[21:19] <blue_anna> it's almost june
[21:21] <stefanlsd> blue_anna: mm. isnt that normal exam time? (uni)
[21:21] <blue_anna> dunno, been so long since I was in college :) my brother just finished his about 4 weeks ago
[21:25] <stefanlsd> blue_anna: im also in africa, stuff happens slower here :)
[21:26] <blue_anna> lol I doubt that -- but maybe classes
[21:29] <Sarvatt> is cifs-utils going to brought over from debian for maverick? smbfs hasn't been installable for about a month, had to grab cifs-utils which replaced it from debian to mount some windows shares
[21:32] <geser> Sarvatt: most likely but the archive admins have to review the list of NEW packages before syncing them which takes time. You might want to poke an archive admin (e.g. cjwatson) to sync it faster.
[21:41]  * wise_crypt is away: sleeping 
[21:46] <cherva> can someone help me with to command to get the current source for gnome-screenshot from svn.gnome.org ( http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-utils/trunk/gnome-screenshot/ )
[21:46]  * wise_crypt is back (gone 00:05:37)
[21:46] <cherva> so I can try to tweak it a little for 10.10
[21:47]  * wise_crypt is away: 
[21:52] <arand> cherva: "GNOME has changed to using Git for version control. Current GNOME sources can be found on git.gnome.org. All content on this site is obsolete"
[21:52] <cherva> arand, 10x