[00:42] <ChrisWoollard> goodnight
[01:29] <humphreybc> ping flan, godbyk
[02:18] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong
[07:16] <dutchie> poor humphreybc being bullied in #python
[07:16] <humphreybc> yep
[07:16] <humphreybc> it's sad
[07:18] <nisshh> humphreybc: why were you bullied in #python?
[07:19] <humphreybc> asking for help with this file, http://paste.ubuntu.com/442079/
[07:19] <humphreybc> no wait
[07:19] <humphreybc> that's the wrong one
[07:19] <humphreybc> this
[07:19] <humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442083/
[07:19] <nisshh> whats so bad about that?
[07:19] <humphreybc> dunno, apparently it's 6 year old level stuff though
[07:20] <nisshh> ah
[07:20] <humphreybc> they were just like "oh, that's easy, just add the defribilator to the combobulator and we'll skedaddle the doodle."
[07:20] <humphreybc> I was like.... what!?
[07:20] <nisshh> haha, they like doing that
[07:21] <nisshh> yay!, just hit rev 100 on my app
[07:21] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/100 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 100
[07:22] <nisshh> bad manualbot
[07:22] <nisshh> naughty manualbot!
[07:23] <dutchie> humphreybc: i made your indentation consistent and it decided to work
[07:23] <humphreybc> yeah
[07:23] <humphreybc> it's working okay now
[07:23] <humphreybc> dutchie, tell me how I can change this code so I can create multiple houses at different positions
[07:23] <humphreybc>         self.ball_size = ball_size
[07:23] <humphreybc> gahh
[07:23] <humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442078/
[07:23] <humphreybc> it's really annoying me
[07:24] <dutchie> using the x and y arguments would help
[07:24] <dutchie> moment
[07:27] <dutchie> it's been a while since I used Tkinter
[07:30] <dutchie> humphreybc: what are the arguments to the create_rectangle/create_line methods?
[07:30] <humphreybc> ummm
[07:31] <humphreybc> rectangle is x0, y0, x1, y1
[07:31] <humphreybc> where x0 and y0 is the point of the upper left corner, x1 and y1 is the point of the lower right corner
[07:31] <humphreybc> not sure about line
[07:34] <dutchie> humphreybc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/442098/ ought to do the trick
[07:36] <humphreybc> what's all that stuff down the bottom?
[07:37] <dutchie> make it run nicely as a script
[07:37] <dutchie> not sure why i bothered with it tbh
[07:38] <dutchie> the if __name__ == '__main__': trick makes the code run only if the script is run directly, not imported
[07:41] <humphreybc> dutchie: so what's the root thing mean?
[07:41] <humphreybc> and howcome this doesn't work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/442101/
[07:41] <humphreybc> I removed the script stuff
[07:43] <dutchie> humphreybc: a function called draw_house should draw a house, no more, no less
[07:43] <dutchie> it shouldn't be creating its own root thingy
[07:44] <dutchie> so i fiddled it to use a root that was passed in as an argument
[07:45] <humphreybc> I don't understand what this root thing is anyway
[07:47] <dutchie> i don't either, but then i haven't used Tkinter in years
[07:48] <humphreybc> calling multiple instances of draw_house creates lots of different windows, one after the other
[07:48]  * humphreybc is about ready to give up
[07:49] <dutchie> is this your draw_house or my draw_house?
[07:50] <humphreybc> lemme show you
[07:51] <humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442106/
[07:52] <dutchie> that's because each time you call draw_house, you create a new Tk instance
[10:23] <dutchie> humphreybc: is there some sort of united docs/manual/learning team meeting today?
[10:28] <nisshh> dutchie: thats exactly what i asked humphreybc yesterday
[10:29] <humphreybc> dutchie: ah, yes there is. I won't be there.
[10:31] <nisshh> humphreybc: when i it?
[10:31] <nisshh> is
[10:35] <nisshh> humphreybc: ^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!
[10:37] <dutchie> http://doodle.com/pgabxqswksmgsx8g
[10:38] <dutchie> 1600UTC
[10:38] <nisshh> thanks dutchie
[10:39] <nisshh> meh, midnight for me
[10:40] <humphreybc> 4am my time
[10:40] <humphreybc> sorry, IRC is playing up
[10:42] <humphreybc> nothing happens and then all of a sudden everything appears at once about 2 minutes later
[10:53] <nisshh> humphreybc: thats called lag
[11:39] <humphreybc> WHY IS PIDGIN BEING A DICK
[11:49] <nisshh> humphreybc: because empathy is better?
[11:49] <humphreybc> don't be foolish
[11:49] <humphreybc> pidgin (usually) rocks
[11:53] <nisshh> meh, whatever, im just saying
[11:54] <humphreybc> tell me what I'm meant to do here
[11:54] <humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/442187/
[13:33] <nisshh> linux-kernel-k9wu2ru32u3
[13:34] <nisshh> oops
[13:34] <nisshh> ignore that
[13:34] <nisshh> :)
[13:34] <nisshh> thats what happens when your typing and not looking at the screen ^^^^^^
[16:55] <c7p> meeting in 5 min?
[16:55] <nisshh> c7p: yea, where is it?
[16:56] <nisshh> which channel i mean
[16:56] <c7p> #ubuntu-meeting
[16:56] <nisshh> right
[16:57] <c7p> from what i see on ML agenda based on the blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-documentation-teams-collaboration
[16:59] <nisshh> c7p: yea, and humphreybc cant be at the meeting, so i have no idea who is chairing it
[17:00] <nisshh> or if its even still happening tonight
[17:00] <c7p> i think Elizabeth chairing the meeting, but I'm not sure :/
[17:01] <godbyk> I think so, too.
[17:01] <nisshh> right
[17:02] <nisshh> i have so many channels open here im getting confused
[17:02]  * nisshh closes a few unused ones
[17:03] <godbyk> Morning, IlyaHaykinson!
[17:03] <ubuntujenkins>  /me has fixed his udev rule
[17:03]  * ubuntujenkins has fixed his udev rule
[17:03]  * IlyaHaykinson waves to godbyk 
[17:03]  * dutchie has rediscovered his Game Boy Advance SP
[17:04]  * nisshh still has his original nintendo ds
[17:04] <nisshh> with a whopping 100Mhz cpu
[17:05]  * c7p ah.. good old days of playing game boy with friends at the neighbourhood 
[17:05] <nisshh> yea i had a gameboy color
[17:05] <nisshh> go! pikachu!
[17:05]  * IlyaHaykinson thinks back to his first desktop PC with an amazing clock speed of 4.77Mhz :-)
[17:05] <c7p> hehe
[17:06] <nisshh> iv actually got all the pokemon episodes on my hard drive here
[17:06]  * godbyk remembers having a big switch to slow that puppy down so he could play games at human speed. :)
[17:06] <nisshh> godbyk: lol
[17:06] <c7p> nisshh: how many seasons ?
[17:07] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: heh. yeah. the "turbo" button, eh?
[17:07] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Yep!
[17:07] <godbyk> Talk about 'overclocking'! :)
[17:08] <IlyaHaykinson> or its cousin, the "slowdown" TSR
[17:08] <godbyk> TSRs!  Oh, man.. forgot about those!
[17:08] <godbyk> I remember spending way too much time rearranging things in my config.sys and autoexec.bat files so that I could load more TSRs.
[17:09] <thorwil> there seems to be a lack of pleia2
[17:09] <nisshh> c7p: 12 seasons plus all the movies
[17:09] <godbyk> thorwil: There does. And she's not logged into the server.
[17:09] <c7p> nisshh: wow ! there are 12 seasons ... omg
[17:10] <nisshh> yea, because of the newest games on dsi
[17:10] <nisshh> heartgold and soulsilver
[17:10] <thorwil> godbyk: btw, i once knew, but how does one look for a user on the server (xchat)?
[17:10] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: EMM386 FTW
[17:10] <IlyaHaykinson> thorwil: msg nickserv info pleia2
[17:10] <godbyk> thorwil: I just ran /whois pleia2 and the server said no one was around by that name.
[17:10] <thorwil> ty
[17:11] <nisshh> c7p: thats 610 episodes
[17:11]  * ubuntujenkins wonders what has happend
[17:12] <nisshh> yea, what the hell is going on now?
[17:12] <c7p> nisshh: :o have you watched all these ?
[17:12] <c7p> nothing !
[17:12] <nisshh> c7p: nope! iv watched about 80 episodes
[17:12] <IlyaHaykinson> benjamin's not around either afaik
[17:13] <nisshh> IlyaHaykinson: yea, he said he wasnt going to be here
[17:13] <ubuntujenkins> ben isn't coming its 4am for him
[17:13] <thorwil> i think Ben is getting old if that stops him now ;)
[17:13] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hang on, he is being lazy, its 4am for me when we have meetings in here! :)
[17:15] <nisshh> thorwil: no kidding
[17:37] <nisshh> IlyaHaykinson: look whos here ^^^^
[17:59] <semioticrobotic> unbelievable internet issues today
[17:59] <semioticrobotic> was anyone able to make today's meeting?
[18:00] <IlyaHaykinson> semioticrobotic: it didn't happen.
[18:00] <IlyaHaykinson> none of the stakeholders were around
[18:00] <semioticrobotic> IlyaHaykinson, no?
[18:00] <godbyk> The only people who showed up where ubuntu manual team members.
[18:00] <IlyaHaykinson> well, none of the docs-side people, nor the attendees of UDS
[18:00] <semioticrobotic> even after pleia2's email?
[18:00] <semioticrobotic> hmmm, I see
[18:01] <semioticrobotic> well, that makes the last hour of network trouble I've had seem a little more bearable
[18:01] <semioticrobotic> oh well.  thanks for the info, IlyaHaykinson
[18:06] <daker> see you :)
[20:32] <pleia2> so sorry about the meeting this morning
[20:33] <pleia2> I ended up having too much going on this weekend, I was exhausted
[20:33] <pleia2> (holiday weekend here in the US, made the schedule more difficult than I anticipated)
[20:34] <godbyk> pleia2: No problem.  We can schedule another meeting soon.
[20:34]  * pleia2 nods
[20:34] <godbyk> I think Ilya and I are going to email some stuff to the lists later tonight, as well.
[20:35] <pleia2> that'd be great :)
[20:35] <godbyk> We've laid out what we think would be a good 'phase 1' for the project.
[20:35]  * ubuntujenkins hopes soon is after the 15/6 that way i have finished exams :)
[20:35] <godbyk> And that leads us to some roles we need to fill and decisions we'll need to make.
[20:35] <pleia2> I just need to touch base with the docs folks re: mallard, then I think we'll be on the right track for -learning as well
[20:36] <godbyk> Yeah, I have to look at mallard a bit more, but from what I've heard, it may not be the best choice for the manual project at least.
[20:36] <godbyk> We're going to see what the docbook->mallard conversion looks like.
[20:36] <godbyk> If that seems like a smooth enough translation, we may use docbook as the base and then translate from docbook to mallard and latex.
[20:36] <pleia2> are there features which are missing that you'll need? or syntax problems?
[20:36]  * pleia2 nods
[20:38] <godbyk> Today I'm going to look at all the tags we're using for the manual and see if they exist in mallard, but I think the primary problem with our (the manual project) using mallard is that it's not designed for linear docs (like books); it's designed for topic-based help (like the system docs and yelp).
[20:38] <pleia2> ah, gotcha
[20:38] <godbyk> For the learning team, I'm not sure what kind of docs you're looking to write. So I can speak for you. :)
[20:38] <pleia2> mostly what amount to handouts for students and teachers for a class outline and material
[20:39] <pleia2> docbook may be more appropriate here too, plus it's a popular format, skills transferrable and all (something that made me shy away from mallard)
[20:39] <flan> Yay for Docbook.
[20:40] <godbyk> yeah, there are a lot of existing tools for docbook, also.
[20:40]  * pleia2 nods
[20:41] <godbyk> Instead of having endless discussions about it (with the 'I vote for x' and the 'me too's), I think we're going to propose docbook with mallard as an output format and see what issues people raise.
[20:41] <pleia2> yeah, there have already been endless discussions
[20:42] <flan> You might want to take that a step further and toss it into a community known to be filled with trolls.
[20:42] <flan> They'll probably come up with really strange arguments that might actually affect us.
[20:42] <flan> The question, I mean.
[20:42] <flan> Posed as something you're just casually looking into.
[20:43] <godbyk> flan: We'll be posting it to the manual, docs, and learning lists.  Hopefully, that'll draw enough attention.
[20:43] <pleia2> there have been threads on the -doc list for months about what format to use
[20:43] <pleia2> I'm quite sure they are going to go with mallard because that's what gnome went with
[20:43] <flan> I mean something like the Gentoo forums.
[20:44] <pleia2> if there's a way to output docbook into mallard I don't see a problem with learning and manual going with docbook
[20:44] <pleia2> s/into/to
[20:45] <godbyk> pleia2: Right. I still have to look into that, but I think it's doable.
[20:45] <godbyk> In the end, the format shouldn't matter to most people because they'll be using a web-based editor to edit/write content.
[20:46] <pleia2> yeah, but we do need to keep our core content creators happy (which I think is more likely if we use docbook)
[20:46] <godbyk> True.
[20:52] <pleia2> well, one of my projects for this weekend is painting some storage units, so I'm heading back to that now
[20:53] <pleia2> thanks for taking the time to chat, sorry about about the meeting, I feel terrible
[20:53] <pleia2> s/about about/again about
[21:01] <pleia2> godbyk: did you see dholbach's email from this morning on -doc? maybe replying to that?
[21:01] <pleia2> he seems mistaken in that it's a move from wiki to a format (right now it's wiki AND docbook), but he is getting the conversation started yet again
[21:02] <godbyk> Yeah, I saw that.
[21:02] <godbyk> I think the packaging team is looking to write a manual as well.
[21:02] <godbyk> I remotely attended their UDS session when they were discussing it.
[21:02]  * pleia2 nods
[21:02] <ubuntujenkins> I would have liked a packaging manual about 4 months ago :(
[21:03] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no doubt!
[21:03] <ubuntujenkins> I have learnt so much this year thanks to the team :)
[21:03] <pleia2> ubuntujenkins: something more user friendly than the debian devel docs?
[21:03] <pleia2> they are good, but it's kinda a steep learning curve
[21:03] <godbyk> It seemed like manuals were all the rage at UDS.  A number of the sessions I eavesdropped on were discussing writing their own.
[21:04] <zus> pleia2,  do you mind a quick pm?
[21:04] <ubuntujenkins> pleia2: I may have read them, I read so much I think all of them are not simple enough for newer useres
[21:04] <pleia2> zus: nope, that's fine :)
[21:04] <zus> pleia2, ty one sec.
[21:04] <pleia2> ubuntujenkins: yeah, they do seem to assume a level of expertise that I think a lot of newcomers don't have
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> I have been using ubuntu for about 2 years and got thrown in the deep end as far a programming goes which made it hard. Now i work on quickshot and the manual latex ppa
[21:05] <pleia2> cool :)
[21:06] <ubuntujenkins> pleia2: on the topic of quickshot flan and i sent this to the list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-May/014801.html had the learning team got any thoughts/feed back on the teams plans?
[21:07] <pleia2> ubuntujenkins: unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test out quickshot, but I'll put it on my list (thanks for the reminder) since I will probably need it relatively soon anyway
[21:08]  * pleia2 has been pretty overwhelmed since UDS
[21:09] <ubuntujenkins> yea I think we are aiming for a september release for the next version, it will be drastically differnet as the first one was done in 3-5 weeks. No rush i just thought i would ask
[21:10] <ubuntujenkins> how quickly it gets done depends on personal work loadsetc
[21:12] <pleia2> yeah, the learning team doesn't have a schedule tied to releases at this time since our focus tends to be on LTS and we release courses as we have volunteers to write/need them
[21:12] <zus> i was wondering who to ask on uploading the ubuntu manual on a torrent site
[21:13] <godbyk> zus: I think there's already a torrent.
[21:15] <godbyk> zus: But in any case, you're certainly welcome to.  It's licensed as CC-BY-SA: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
[21:15] <zus> godbyk,  yeah i was looking to upload something to a site i like to use for torrents.
[21:16] <godbyk> I don't know anything about the current torrent.  One of the guys on the team stumbled across it and posted a link, but I haven't looked at it.
[21:16] <godbyk> I'll try to find the link.
[21:17] <godbyk> Here you go: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5550350/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04
[21:18] <zus> also i have yet to  read it as i just downloaded it for myself,...will there be a Kubuntu version....... sweet.
[21:19] <zus> thank you all once again.
[21:20] <godbyk> We're looking into a Kubuntu version.  It'll depend primarily on whether there's enough interest in writing one.
[21:20] <godbyk> (That is, if enough people are willing to write one.)
[21:21] <zus> call me! heheh
[21:21] <zus> i'd love to help on that one
[21:23] <zus> i realize as much as i read ubuntu and kubuntu are the same with just a different enviroment,  that diferent envirment did my head in the first few weeks of using it..
[21:25] <zus> btw thanks for that link... does it cover art-work and music? (sorry for off topic)
[21:27] <zus> nvm i found a link to the main page from the link posted... well im off to read the manual let me know about the kubuntu one...
[21:30] <godbyk> zus: Enjoy!
[21:39] <c7p> godbyk is there anything new from CC corp ?
[21:39] <c7p> org*
[21:40] <godbyk> c7p: Not that I've heard.
[21:40] <c7p> ok
[21:42] <c7p> topo finished the license-el.tex file, actually he added a paragraph in greek telling about the content of that section of the book, I'm sending it to you now
[21:43] <godbyk> great -- thanks!
[21:44] <c7p> np :)
[21:49] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[21:49] <c7p> night Luke
[21:51] <c7p> night all