[00:42] goodnight [01:29] ping flan, godbyk [02:18] humphreybc: pong [07:16] poor humphreybc being bullied in #python [07:16] yep [07:16] it's sad [07:18] humphreybc: why were you bullied in #python? [07:19] asking for help with this file, http://paste.ubuntu.com/442079/ [07:19] no wait [07:19] that's the wrong one [07:19] this [07:19] http://paste.ubuntu.com/442083/ [07:19] whats so bad about that? [07:19] dunno, apparently it's 6 year old level stuff though [07:20] ah [07:20] they were just like "oh, that's easy, just add the defribilator to the combobulator and we'll skedaddle the doodle." [07:20] I was like.... what!? [07:20] haha, they like doing that [07:21] yay!, just hit rev 100 on my app [07:21] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/100 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 100 [07:22] bad manualbot [07:22] naughty manualbot! [07:23] humphreybc: i made your indentation consistent and it decided to work [07:23] yeah [07:23] it's working okay now [07:23] dutchie, tell me how I can change this code so I can create multiple houses at different positions [07:23] self.ball_size = ball_size [07:23] gahh [07:23] http://paste.ubuntu.com/442078/ [07:23] it's really annoying me [07:24] using the x and y arguments would help [07:24] moment [07:27] it's been a while since I used Tkinter [07:30] humphreybc: what are the arguments to the create_rectangle/create_line methods? [07:30] ummm [07:31] rectangle is x0, y0, x1, y1 [07:31] where x0 and y0 is the point of the upper left corner, x1 and y1 is the point of the lower right corner [07:31] not sure about line [07:34] humphreybc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/442098/ ought to do the trick [07:36] what's all that stuff down the bottom? [07:37] make it run nicely as a script [07:37] not sure why i bothered with it tbh [07:38] the if __name__ == '__main__': trick makes the code run only if the script is run directly, not imported [07:41] dutchie: so what's the root thing mean? [07:41] and howcome this doesn't work? http://paste.ubuntu.com/442101/ [07:41] I removed the script stuff [07:43] humphreybc: a function called draw_house should draw a house, no more, no less [07:43] it shouldn't be creating its own root thingy [07:44] so i fiddled it to use a root that was passed in as an argument [07:45] I don't understand what this root thing is anyway [07:47] i don't either, but then i haven't used Tkinter in years [07:48] calling multiple instances of draw_house creates lots of different windows, one after the other [07:48] * humphreybc is about ready to give up [07:49] is this your draw_house or my draw_house? [07:50] lemme show you [07:51] http://paste.ubuntu.com/442106/ [07:52] that's because each time you call draw_house, you create a new Tk instance [10:23] humphreybc: is there some sort of united docs/manual/learning team meeting today? [10:28] dutchie: thats exactly what i asked humphreybc yesterday [10:29] dutchie: ah, yes there is. I won't be there. [10:31] humphreybc: when i it? [10:31] is [10:35] humphreybc: ^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!! [10:37] http://doodle.com/pgabxqswksmgsx8g [10:38] 1600UTC [10:38] thanks dutchie [10:39] meh, midnight for me [10:40] 4am my time [10:40] sorry, IRC is playing up [10:42] nothing happens and then all of a sudden everything appears at once about 2 minutes later [10:53] humphreybc: thats called lag === popey_ is now known as popey [11:39] WHY IS PIDGIN BEING A DICK [11:49] humphreybc: because empathy is better? [11:49] don't be foolish [11:49] pidgin (usually) rocks [11:53] meh, whatever, im just saying [11:54] tell me what I'm meant to do here [11:54] http://paste.ubuntu.com/442187/ [13:33] linux-kernel-k9wu2ru32u3 [13:34] oops [13:34] ignore that [13:34] :) [13:34] thats what happens when your typing and not looking at the screen ^^^^^^ === \vish is now known as vish [16:55] meeting in 5 min? [16:55] c7p: yea, where is it? [16:56] which channel i mean [16:56] #ubuntu-meeting [16:56] right [16:57] from what i see on ML agenda based on the blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-documentation-teams-collaboration [16:59] c7p: yea, and humphreybc cant be at the meeting, so i have no idea who is chairing it [17:00] or if its even still happening tonight [17:00] i think Elizabeth chairing the meeting, but I'm not sure :/ [17:01] I think so, too. [17:01] right [17:02] i have so many channels open here im getting confused [17:02] * nisshh closes a few unused ones [17:03] Morning, IlyaHaykinson! [17:03] /me has fixed his udev rule [17:03] * ubuntujenkins has fixed his udev rule [17:03] * IlyaHaykinson waves to godbyk [17:03] * dutchie has rediscovered his Game Boy Advance SP [17:04] * nisshh still has his original nintendo ds [17:04] with a whopping 100Mhz cpu [17:05] * c7p ah.. good old days of playing game boy with friends at the neighbourhood [17:05] yea i had a gameboy color [17:05] go! pikachu! [17:05] * IlyaHaykinson thinks back to his first desktop PC with an amazing clock speed of 4.77Mhz :-) [17:05] hehe [17:06] iv actually got all the pokemon episodes on my hard drive here [17:06] * godbyk remembers having a big switch to slow that puppy down so he could play games at human speed. :) [17:06] godbyk: lol [17:06] nisshh: how many seasons ? [17:07] godbyk: heh. yeah. the "turbo" button, eh? [17:07] IlyaHaykinson: Yep! [17:07] Talk about 'overclocking'! :) [17:08] or its cousin, the "slowdown" TSR [17:08] TSRs! Oh, man.. forgot about those! [17:08] I remember spending way too much time rearranging things in my config.sys and autoexec.bat files so that I could load more TSRs. [17:09] there seems to be a lack of pleia2 [17:09] c7p: 12 seasons plus all the movies [17:09] thorwil: There does. And she's not logged into the server. [17:09] nisshh: wow ! there are 12 seasons ... omg [17:10] yea, because of the newest games on dsi [17:10] heartgold and soulsilver [17:10] godbyk: btw, i once knew, but how does one look for a user on the server (xchat)? [17:10] godbyk: EMM386 FTW [17:10] thorwil: msg nickserv info pleia2 [17:10] thorwil: I just ran /whois pleia2 and the server said no one was around by that name. [17:10] ty [17:11] c7p: thats 610 episodes [17:11] * ubuntujenkins wonders what has happend [17:12] yea, what the hell is going on now? [17:12] nisshh: :o have you watched all these ? [17:12] nothing ! [17:12] c7p: nope! iv watched about 80 episodes [17:12] benjamin's not around either afaik [17:13] IlyaHaykinson: yea, he said he wasnt going to be here [17:13] ben isn't coming its 4am for him [17:13] i think Ben is getting old if that stops him now ;) [17:13] ubuntujenkins: hang on, he is being lazy, its 4am for me when we have meetings in here! :) === godbyk_ is now known as godbyk [17:15] thorwil: no kidding [17:37] IlyaHaykinson: look whos here ^^^^ [17:59] unbelievable internet issues today [17:59] was anyone able to make today's meeting? [18:00] semioticrobotic: it didn't happen. [18:00] none of the stakeholders were around [18:00] IlyaHaykinson, no? [18:00] The only people who showed up where ubuntu manual team members. [18:00] well, none of the docs-side people, nor the attendees of UDS [18:00] even after pleia2's email? [18:00] hmmm, I see [18:01] well, that makes the last hour of network trouble I've had seem a little more bearable [18:01] oh well. thanks for the info, IlyaHaykinson [18:06] see you :) [20:32] so sorry about the meeting this morning [20:33] I ended up having too much going on this weekend, I was exhausted [20:33] (holiday weekend here in the US, made the schedule more difficult than I anticipated) [20:34] pleia2: No problem. We can schedule another meeting soon. [20:34] * pleia2 nods [20:34] I think Ilya and I are going to email some stuff to the lists later tonight, as well. [20:35] that'd be great :) [20:35] We've laid out what we think would be a good 'phase 1' for the project. [20:35] * ubuntujenkins hopes soon is after the 15/6 that way i have finished exams :) [20:35] And that leads us to some roles we need to fill and decisions we'll need to make. [20:35] I just need to touch base with the docs folks re: mallard, then I think we'll be on the right track for -learning as well [20:36] Yeah, I have to look at mallard a bit more, but from what I've heard, it may not be the best choice for the manual project at least. [20:36] We're going to see what the docbook->mallard conversion looks like. [20:36] If that seems like a smooth enough translation, we may use docbook as the base and then translate from docbook to mallard and latex. [20:36] are there features which are missing that you'll need? or syntax problems? [20:36] * pleia2 nods [20:38] Today I'm going to look at all the tags we're using for the manual and see if they exist in mallard, but I think the primary problem with our (the manual project) using mallard is that it's not designed for linear docs (like books); it's designed for topic-based help (like the system docs and yelp). [20:38] ah, gotcha [20:38] For the learning team, I'm not sure what kind of docs you're looking to write. So I can speak for you. :) [20:38] mostly what amount to handouts for students and teachers for a class outline and material [20:39] docbook may be more appropriate here too, plus it's a popular format, skills transferrable and all (something that made me shy away from mallard) [20:39] Yay for Docbook. [20:40] yeah, there are a lot of existing tools for docbook, also. [20:40] * pleia2 nods [20:41] Instead of having endless discussions about it (with the 'I vote for x' and the 'me too's), I think we're going to propose docbook with mallard as an output format and see what issues people raise. [20:41] yeah, there have already been endless discussions [20:42] You might want to take that a step further and toss it into a community known to be filled with trolls. [20:42] They'll probably come up with really strange arguments that might actually affect us. [20:42] The question, I mean. [20:42] Posed as something you're just casually looking into. [20:43] flan: We'll be posting it to the manual, docs, and learning lists. Hopefully, that'll draw enough attention. [20:43] there have been threads on the -doc list for months about what format to use [20:43] I'm quite sure they are going to go with mallard because that's what gnome went with [20:43] I mean something like the Gentoo forums. [20:44] if there's a way to output docbook into mallard I don't see a problem with learning and manual going with docbook [20:44] s/into/to [20:45] pleia2: Right. I still have to look into that, but I think it's doable. [20:45] In the end, the format shouldn't matter to most people because they'll be using a web-based editor to edit/write content. [20:46] yeah, but we do need to keep our core content creators happy (which I think is more likely if we use docbook) [20:46] True. [20:52] well, one of my projects for this weekend is painting some storage units, so I'm heading back to that now [20:53] thanks for taking the time to chat, sorry about about the meeting, I feel terrible [20:53] s/about about/again about === topo is now known as Guest47891 [21:01] godbyk: did you see dholbach's email from this morning on -doc? maybe replying to that? [21:01] he seems mistaken in that it's a move from wiki to a format (right now it's wiki AND docbook), but he is getting the conversation started yet again [21:02] Yeah, I saw that. [21:02] I think the packaging team is looking to write a manual as well. [21:02] I remotely attended their UDS session when they were discussing it. [21:02] * pleia2 nods [21:02] I would have liked a packaging manual about 4 months ago :( [21:03] ubuntujenkins: no doubt! [21:03] I have learnt so much this year thanks to the team :) [21:03] ubuntujenkins: something more user friendly than the debian devel docs? [21:03] they are good, but it's kinda a steep learning curve [21:03] It seemed like manuals were all the rage at UDS. A number of the sessions I eavesdropped on were discussing writing their own. [21:04] pleia2, do you mind a quick pm? [21:04] pleia2: I may have read them, I read so much I think all of them are not simple enough for newer useres [21:04] zus: nope, that's fine :) [21:04] pleia2, ty one sec. [21:04] ubuntujenkins: yeah, they do seem to assume a level of expertise that I think a lot of newcomers don't have [21:05] I have been using ubuntu for about 2 years and got thrown in the deep end as far a programming goes which made it hard. Now i work on quickshot and the manual latex ppa [21:05] cool :) [21:06] pleia2: on the topic of quickshot flan and i sent this to the list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-May/014801.html had the learning team got any thoughts/feed back on the teams plans? [21:07] ubuntujenkins: unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test out quickshot, but I'll put it on my list (thanks for the reminder) since I will probably need it relatively soon anyway [21:08] * pleia2 has been pretty overwhelmed since UDS [21:09] yea I think we are aiming for a september release for the next version, it will be drastically differnet as the first one was done in 3-5 weeks. No rush i just thought i would ask [21:10] how quickly it gets done depends on personal work loadsetc [21:12] yeah, the learning team doesn't have a schedule tied to releases at this time since our focus tends to be on LTS and we release courses as we have volunteers to write/need them [21:12] i was wondering who to ask on uploading the ubuntu manual on a torrent site [21:13] zus: I think there's already a torrent. [21:15] zus: But in any case, you're certainly welcome to. It's licensed as CC-BY-SA: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ [21:15] godbyk, yeah i was looking to upload something to a site i like to use for torrents. [21:16] I don't know anything about the current torrent. One of the guys on the team stumbled across it and posted a link, but I haven't looked at it. [21:16] I'll try to find the link. [21:17] Here you go: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5550350/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04 [21:18] also i have yet to read it as i just downloaded it for myself,...will there be a Kubuntu version....... sweet. [21:19] thank you all once again. [21:20] We're looking into a Kubuntu version. It'll depend primarily on whether there's enough interest in writing one. [21:20] (That is, if enough people are willing to write one.) [21:21] call me! heheh [21:21] i'd love to help on that one [21:23] i realize as much as i read ubuntu and kubuntu are the same with just a different enviroment, that diferent envirment did my head in the first few weeks of using it.. [21:25] btw thanks for that link... does it cover art-work and music? (sorry for off topic) [21:27] nvm i found a link to the main page from the link posted... well im off to read the manual let me know about the kubuntu one... [21:30] zus: Enjoy! [21:39] godbyk is there anything new from CC corp ? [21:39] org* [21:40] c7p: Not that I've heard. [21:40] ok [21:42] topo finished the license-el.tex file, actually he added a paragraph in greek telling about the content of that section of the book, I'm sending it to you now [21:43] great -- thanks! [21:44] np :) [21:49] night all [21:49] night Luke [21:51] night all