robert_ancellRAOF, math question about order of operations - do you know if the order of multiplication and division is strictly required to be left to right?  I'd like to do multiplication first so the following works: 1×10²÷2×10¹00:19
RAOFrobert_ancell: Multiplication & division are commutative; it doesn't matter which way you order them.00:19
RAOFrobert_ancell: In fact, division doesn't exist.  It's a convenient fiction.00:19
robert_ancellRAOF, if you treat the above as exponential numbers it does make a difference unfortunately00:20
RAOFWell, it's because you're missing some brackets.00:20
RAOF1×10²×2^(-1)×10^(-1) will work, and doesn't matter what order you do it in.00:21
robert_ancellyes, I wonder if this is going to make exponential numbers unusable00:21
robert_ancell(without brackets)00:21
ubot2Gnome bug 620191 in general "Exp button replaced with x10^y caused changed semantics" [Normal,Unconfirmed]00:22
RAOFSo, how do you tell the difference between (1×10²) (semantically a single number with an exponential representation) and 1×10²?00:23
robert_ancellRAOF, that's it, I can't00:23
robert_ancellThough visually you would expect to be able to, and if you wrote the equation on paper you wouldn't bother with brackets (but might use some spacing to distinguish)00:23
JanCeh, what's the difference?  :P00:24
RAOFWell, I *personally* wouldn't write a number like that :)00:24
robert_ancellJanC, the difference matters when you do the above division example00:24
JanCaccording to the math I learned, they are exactly the same?00:24
robert_ancellRAOF, what would you write?00:25
RAOFIf you want to support it I think you'll need a dedicated button.00:25
RAOFrobert_ancell: I'd probably enclose them in brackets.00:25
robert_ancellSo I'm wondering if I could be clever and work out the difference but I think it would just make the match unpredictable (and probably incorrect)00:26
RAOFBut that's partially because I'm a mathematician, not an engineer :)00:26
robert_ancellRAOF, sure.  So that sounds like the correct solution, I have to decide if the correct solution is more important than the practical solution. hmmm00:26
JanCeh, I'm not a mathematician, and I use brackets when I want to override normal operation order00:27
JanCthey teached that in primary school IIRC  ;)00:28
RAOFI think you'll need a dedicated button - it's a different way to enter a number, one that's basically indistingishable from entering an operation.00:28
RAOFHm.  If you had a dedicated button you could also do funky things, like preserve precision across calculations.00:28
RAOFJanC: Yeah, but engineers (and scientists) deal with numbers like 2.53×10² _all the time_.00:29
JanCis this about an alternative to xEy notation used by many calculators?00:29
robert_ancellJanC, so if you wanted to do that division, do you think you would have put the brackets in the first time?  Would you have been suprised if you got the wrong answer?00:29
robert_ancellJanC, yes, I removed that notation, I've been trying to get gcalctool to do correct mathematical notation where possible00:30
robert_ancellRAOF, the issue is parsing the 'E' notation, as E can be a variable now.  Do you know of any alternative symbols to use?00:30
JanCeh, E can be a variable in the middle ?00:31
robert_ancellJanC, "10E-2"00:33
robert_ancellI need a unicode "*10" glyph :)00:33
JanCstill, there is nothing that looks like an operator before the E ?00:33
JanCdepends on how you parse things of course00:34
robert_ancell10E = 10*E00:34
robert_ancellso now you can do calculations like 2πr which I think is a bigger win00:35
JanCbut that would be wrong syntax if you wanted to express an exponent?00:36
robert_ancellif you have a variable E, e.g. E=2, 10E-2 = 1800:36
JanCyou want to remove the need for * ?00:36
JanCplease don't  :P00:36
RAOFrobert_ancell: I think there actually is a ×10 glyph00:37
robert_ancellit's gone! How can you do polynomials without it?  (The syntax choices are in the order that is is taught in schools, i.e. polynomials are a higher priority than exponential numbers)00:37
RAOFrobert_ancell: Hm.  Can you have 3.65EXP6 translate to the glyphs 3.65×10⁶ and parse that specially?  Users are unlikely to be entering ×10⁶ themselves, right?00:46
robert_ancellRAOF, Ctrl+E enters ×10 and puts you in superscript mode, so it is fast to enter exponentials (as long as you work out the shortcut key - it's in the tooltip)00:47
JanCRAOF: I enter that when writing text, but in general not on a calculator  ;)00:48
robert_ancelland again, 3.65EXP-6 could be a valid equation00:48
robert_ancellWhat calculators do you guys use?  I really want a good engineering/scientific/programming calculator app I can recommend that advanced users install.  The best I have found are speedcrunch and qalculate00:49
RAOFI don't use a calculator.  Mathematician's don't deal with numbers. :)00:50
JanCa python shell  ;)00:50
robert_ancellheh, we're all the wrong class of users :)00:51
JanCbut why would people want to do polynomials on their calculator?00:52
JanCI never owned one that could do that?00:52
JanCisn't that more something for a dedicated application?00:54
robert_ancellwell, these are the sorts of calculations that people know about, so I think it makes sense to have a tool that does that.  My calculator could sort of do simple polynomials.00:55
robert_ancellI think most people are happy as long as the calculator does (1+2)*300:55
JanChm, what about using spaces?00:56
robert_ancellspaces for?00:56
JanCwell, 3.65 * E * 6 could be writen as 3.65 E 6, but not as 3.65E6 ?00:58
robert_ancellJanC, looks too ambiguous01:00
JanChm, another idea, variables are written in italics in math, maybe you can use that?01:01
robert_ancellI think I've seen notation where the 'E' is 3/4 size, looking for a glyph01:02
robert_ancellJanC, I explored that a while back, the problem is entering with the keyboard - either they always have to be in italics (which screws up the functions) or you need a modifier key for each variable01:02
RAOFCertainly using a different E glyph would work.01:06
robert_ancell1ⅇ2 1⋿201:08
robert_ancell1𝑬2, 1𝗘2 1𝑬201:09
JanCseems like http://xrjunque.nom.es/precis/Admfns.aspx uses brackets & * when things are confusing  ;)01:11
RAOFI think the last one is better.01:12
robert_ancellyes, I think I'll do that01:13
robert_ancellIt will be optional though, or perhaps it should happen automatically in engineering mode?01:13
RAOFⅇ is blackboard bold, and will probably confuse mathematicians.  ⋿ looks a lot like a reverse “there exists” quantifier; I'm not sure what that's for :).01:13
RAOFProbably automatically in engineering mode.01:13
robert_ancellRAOF, it is "notation bag membership"01:14
robert_ancellwhatever that is01:14
RAOFAh, ok.01:14
robert_ancellhmm, bugzilla freaked out with that glyph, cut off half my comment!!01:24
robert_ancellTheMuso, hey, can you look at brasero in bzr?  It's not ubuntu-desktop uploadable01:41
TheMusorobert_ancell: Sure.01:42
TheMusorobert_ancell: Slight correction, you say in your changelog that its a rebase on debian testing, but the most recent debian changelog entry is unstable.01:44
robert_ancellTheMuso, right, I pulled it from testing, but it's just the version copied from unstable.  Feel free to correct (I wasn't sure at the time but I have been making later packages match the last changelog entry)01:46
TheMusorobert_ancell: heh ok, will adjust.01:46
* robert_ancell argh! I build in a chroot and it still doesn't work when I upload!01:56
TheMusorobert_ancell: brasero uploaded02:24
robert_ancellTheMuso, thanks02:29
TheMusorobert_ancell: np02:30
Sarvattwell all this talk about gcalctool made me pull the hold off my old version and I noticed the bit editor is fixed, you rock robert_ancell! :) it stopped showing when you inputted any hex characters for awhile there and thats all I use it for03:36
robert_ancellSarvatt, yeah, the last release was a bit of a problem.  Let me know if you find any issues in the new one!03:37
Sarvattneed to decide hex register dumps03:37
robert_ancellSarvatt, example?03:38
Sarvattpulling this out of my rear here but if you run say intel_reg_dumper, it gives off a list of register dumps and you can decode what they mean in the docs. like say bit 14 of the FBC_STATUS register indicates its enabled03:43
Sarvattbut all you get from the dumper is 0x053f03ff03:43
robert_ancellSarvatt, can you put an example in paste.ubuntu.com?  Is the issue the 0x?03:44
Sarvattfrom october until lucid's release if you entered say A it immediately stopped showing the bit representation of what you're inputting03:44
Sarvattonly worked in decimal03:45
Sarvattlike i'd enter 053 and it'd update it as I went but once I put in that f it just greyed out the area03:46
robert_ancellSarvatt, I'm confused, I thought you said there was a problem in the latest version03:46
Sarvattoh no I'm sorry, I was saying all the talk about it made me remove the hold for the really old version I had that worked to try it out and I saw it was fixed now03:47
robert_ancellSarvatt, great :)03:47
pittiGood morning05:19
robert_ancellpitti, hey05:23
pittihey robert_ancell, how are you?05:24
robert_ancellpitti, good! Guess it's your tuesday now so I have to stop uploading :)05:24
=== bratsche is now known as br-sleep
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
didrocksgood morning08:02
pittibonjour didrocks08:03
didrocksGuten Morgen pitti, how are you? at work at 6AM as usually in Munich apparenty? ;)08:03
pittiyep :)08:04
didrockspitti: do you think that's because this blueprint wasn't accepted for UDS-M "sprint" that it doesn't appear in the WI tracker: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-unity-une-integration ?08:10
pittididrocks: I fixed the blueprint syntax, "work items" must not appear in [ ]08:16
didrockspitti: urgh, my fault so, sorry. Thanks! :)08:16
pittide rien :)08:16
summersi would like to invite everyone to my new ubuntu channel, #ubuntu-faggots08:49
summers+o for everyone08:49
pittithanks, jussi09:00
pittiI didn't really get the joke, but it didn't sound constructive09:00
seb128hello pitti09:00
pittibonjour seb12809:00
jussipitti: he is a problem user that has been spamming pretty much across the ubuntu namespace09:00
pittiargh, I thought I just fixed those )#$*#$ retracers09:01
* pitti pokes harder09:01
didrockshey seb12809:01
seb128hello didrocks09:01
didrocksseb128: which version of mutter do you need for gnome-shell?09:02
didrocks2.31+ or 2.30 is enough?09:02
didrocksseb128: understood, thanks :)09:03
didrocksseb128: how are you btw?09:03
seb128didrocks, I'm great, thank you, what about you?09:04
didrocksseb128: slowly recovering up from the lack of sleep. Otherwise I'm good thanks :)09:04
didrockshey rodrigo_09:04
seb128hey rodrigo_09:04
rodrigo_what's the process to get a package added to ubuntu universe?09:04
rodrigo_hi didrocks, seb12809:04
jussiIll leave you good people alone again. Have fun!09:05
rodrigo_it's about wdfs, for tomboy webdav syncing09:05
seb128rodrigo_, easier is to get it in debian, otherwise try #ubuntu-motu or wiki documentation09:05
rodrigo_didrocks, btw, haven't forgotten about the couchdb-based dconf backend, just waiting on desrt to write the API needed09:06
rodrigo_seb128, ok09:06
didrocksrodrigo_: sweet! no hurry in any case :)09:06
robert_ancellseb128, hey, there is an evince update in bzr if you want to sponsor.09:12
seb128hey robert_ancell09:13
robert_ancelldidrocks, thanks for the autotools heads up!09:13
seb128robert_ancell, ok, can do that later, I'm catching up with other things right now09:13
seb128or maybe didrocks wants to do some sponsoring ;-)09:13
robert_ancellseb128, it's not critical, just a merge09:13
seb128robert_ancell, btw we settled on the dconf binaries yesterday09:13
robert_ancellseb128, yup, saw that.  Left them in one package I see :)09:13
seb128right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever09:14
seb128right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever09:14
seb128I somewhat think it's an upstream fail but shrug09:15
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, that was what I was worried about.09:15
seb128what is the point to make it a system library if it's not supposed to be one?09:15
robert_ancellit's really just a gsettings backends09:16
seb128robert_ancell, didrocks: did you guys decide to use that new cdbs autoreconf rules?09:17
robert_ancellI haven't tried the new method but the DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_* variables seem to be working well09:19
seb128well, we had discussions about it previous cycles I think09:20
robert_ancelldidrocks, I think the main difference will be one line instead of 4 in debian/rules?  i.e. autoreconf runs the same set of tools09:20
seb128it's not using autoreconf but trying to call autoconf, automake etc09:20
seb128where autoreconf has the logic to run autotools in the right order to work09:20
robert_ancellseb128, sure, it will be better to use autoreconf09:21
robert_ancell(my point being I've done a number of packages and they seem to build well, so I expect the autoreconf stuff will work just as well)09:21
seb128ok, nice09:22
seb128pitti, did you see my workitems ping yesterday?09:24
seb128pitti, could you reset the maverick charts for us?09:24
pittiseb128: no, I don't think I did09:24
seb128the trendline is not adjusted we want to start from now09:24
pittihm, we did last week already?09:24
seb128see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html09:24
seb128I checked with rickspencer3 and he agreed to reset09:24
didrocksseb128: robert_ancell I guess this tool is better if debian is using it, we can reduce the diff too09:25
didrocksseb128: robert_ancell: needs sponsoring for evince?09:25
seb128didrocks, debian is not using it they don't need to autoreconf at build time usually09:25
seb128didrocks, if you can sponsor it that would be nice, I'm looking to some workitems and other things right now09:25
didrocksseb128: sure but we have a tool that is called on the right time, copying the old configure and some cleaning safety09:26
didrocksseb128: way better to redo that for every package09:26
didrocksso i'll be in favor going this path09:26
seb128I'm just saying it's not going to win us lot of diff over debian09:26
didrocksseb128: doing evince09:26
seb128not arguing we should not use it ;-)09:26
seb128robert_ancell, great merge work ;-)09:27
robert_ancellseb128, so much merging to do... :)09:27
seb128robert_ancell, we should be almost done no?09:27
seb128don't bother for those were the packaging is very different09:28
seb128ie gdm09:28
robert_ancellseb128, I see you've already got stuck into the gdm anger this morning :)09:28
pittiseb128: committed09:29
seb128pitti, danke09:29
pittiseb128: btw, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html seems a bit overly optimistic?09:29
seb128robert_ancell, can you push you rhythmbox changes?09:29
seb128pitti, right, it was sort of a fuzzy target09:30
robert_ancellseb128, whoops, pushing now09:30
seb128I'm moving things to alpha-2 tiday09:30
robert_ancellwe need that tool09:30
pittialthough the dconf one is done09:30
seb128robert_ancell, thanks09:30
pittiseb128: you can mark dconf as done09:30
pitticongrats to robert_ancell for doing all his alpha-1 tasks :)09:30
seb128pitti, right, doing so, thanks09:30
* pitti hugs robert_ancell09:30
seb128pitti, did you review the binaries?09:30
pittiseb128: erm, no, did you ask me to?09:30
pittisorry if I missed it09:30
robert_ancellok gtg, see you guys tomorrow09:30
pittigood night robert_ancell09:30
seb128pitti, no, but since you rejected the first upload I figured you would review the new one09:31
pittiah, can do in a minute09:31
pittijust uploading udisks09:31
seb128pitti, sorry if that was wrong assumption I did ;-)09:31
seb128pitti, danke09:31
araseb128, shall we send the call for testing now?09:32
seb128ara, hey, how are you?09:33
araseb128, doing good, thanks. yourself?09:33
seb128I'm great thank you!09:33
seb128ara, the call for testing, yes please, send it whenever you are ready ;-)09:34
araseb128, OK, will do09:34
seb128ara, thanks!09:34
araubuntu-devel and ubuntu-qa?09:34
* seb128 hugs ara for the great work09:34
* ara hugs seb128 back09:34
seb128ara, yes09:34
pittiseb128: dconf newed09:41
seb128pitti, thanks!09:42
mvoslomo, seb128: what is the plan for gnome-codec-installer for maverick? will it be superseeded by session-installer? or is it still worth keeping it?09:56
slomomvo: what's session-installer?09:58
seb128mvo, I've no opinion on it, I'm open to discuss it09:58
mvoslomo: the thing that glatzor works on to provide a packagekit compatible dbus api09:58
mvoseb128: ok, I was wondering if its woth spending time to make the backend for g-c-i optionally use aptdaemon09:59
mvoI guess that is a good move09:59
mvoslomo: I assume you would take a aptdaemon backend patch?09:59
seb128I know user testing showed that g-c-i has not a nice user experience09:59
seb128not sure if we want to work over it or just drop it for something else though10:00
mvomostly because of our package naming10:00
slomomvo: ah, well, the session-installer thing is suboptimal because of packagekit restrictions10:00
seb128that an the number of clicks10:00
seb128and the fact that it does list and select all the alternative for you10:00
mvoslomo: what problems exactly? do you have more info on this?10:00
seb128and the fact that there is quite some dialog jumping around during the installation10:01
slomomvo: packagekit only knows about "success" or "failure", the codec installer has more than that (e.g. some plugins could be installed)10:01
mvoseb128: is there a summary of the issue? I know that there is talk about it, I heard about it only as chat, not as a written summary or something10:01
mvoslomo: aha, ok10:01
seb128mvo, not sure, I can check with ivanka if you want10:01
mvoseb128: thanks, would be nice10:02
seb128mvo, the complain were the number of clicks, the dialogs jumping rather than having something integrated to the software and the names10:02
seb128mvo, I will check with design10:02
mvoseb128: number of clicks> well, one to confirm the search, one to install10:02
mvoplus codec-warning-dialog (I would love to ditch this one)10:02
seb128on their user testing it was over ten clicks to get rhythmbox to play a mp310:02
seb128on a stock installation10:03
seb128and they said it should be one click ;-)10:03
mvoseb128: it *should* be no click ;)10:03
seb128well you need to ask the user10:03
mvoseb128: but there are various contrains that make the ideal-world less ideal :P10:03
mvoseb128: ideally it would be installed by default10:03
seb128right, there is ideally what would happen and what we can technically do10:04
mvoyeah, that is my point. but I guess if there is no design yet for it, then its not feasible to radically change it for maverick10:05
mvonot enough time10:05
mvothanks seb128, I do the merge and add a aptdaemon backend and send that as a patch to slomo then for now10:06
slomomvo: sounds good10:06
mvoand maybe make it use less windows (more inline progress like the latest update-manager)10:06
mvoseb128: do you know what happend with this "morphing windows" stuff from DX? that may be a good target for this10:07
seb128no really, check with bratsche10:08
mvook, will do. thanks10:10
mvog-c-i> fun little app, I like it10:10
* mvo hugs slomo10:10
seb128mvo, I still get update-notifier icon in the tray10:25
seb128chrisccoulson, hey10:27
chrisccoulsonhey seb128, how are you today?10:27
seb128I'm great ;-)10:28
seb128what about you?10:28
chrisccoulsonseb128 - i'm good thanks, although a bit tired. i had quite a late night getting the rest of the hardy extensions updated10:28
chrisccoulsonbut they're all done now :)10:28
mvoseb128: aha, right. I fix it10:30
seb128mvo, thanks ;-)10:31
seb128chrisccoulson, :-(10:31
seb128chrisccoulson, sorry that you had to work on an holiday10:31
chrisccoulsonseb128 - that's ok, it's better than doing gardening ;)10:31
chrisccoulsonalthough i had to do some of that too10:31
seb128it's not raining in the uk?10:32
seb128we have cold rainy weather there10:32
didrockswell, not sure why robert_ancell remerged evince as it's a no win (debian just renamed the patch I've integrated as a SRU differently), but well, pushed10:33
didrockshey chrisccoulson10:33
ayanmorning guys.10:33
seb128chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-mozilla-team-discussion btw10:33
seb128hey ayan, how are you?10:33
seb128chrisccoulson, could you update your alpha1 items there?10:33
seb128chrisccoulson, I guess you want to move those to alpha2 now?10:34
ayanseb128: doing great.10:34
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks10:36
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i can do that. i discussed those with rick on the phone last week and he suggested i move all of my alpha1 work items to alpha 2 anyway10:37
seb128chrisccoulson, now is time to do it, we will review the chart for the meeting today10:37
seb128didrocks, right, robert_ancell seems to be trying to be a good citizen and merges all sources once for the cycle10:39
didrocksseb128: I've already merged evince one week ago, hence my wondering…10:40
seb128he maybe didn't notice10:40
seb128I can't really speak for him though ;-)10:41
didrocksyeah, I guess that if he grepped on merges.ubuntu.com, the "updated merge" isn't really noticeable :)10:41
seb128mvo, the rgba emacs issue is likely an emacs bug10:55
mvoseb128: fair enough10:59
seb128I will let cody comment11:00
seb128mvo, using the new update-manager in maverick you need to enter the polkit authentification once for refresh and once to install upgrades, that's a bug or a polkit limitation since those are different actions so require different permissions set?11:11
seb128mvo, should I open a bug? ;-)11:12
mvoseb128: please open a bug11:14
mvoseb128: its kind-of a feature11:14
mvoseb128: having fine-grained control over the thing11:15
mvoseb128: please report against aptdaemon11:15
seb128mvo, ok11:15
seb128mvo, will do that after lunch11:17
seb128chrisccoulson, when is the firefox new version scheduled for now?11:17
seb128upstream schedule11:17
mvoseb128: lunch> good idea!11:18
chrisccoulsonseb128 - june 7th11:18
seb128chrisccoulson, thanks11:18
chrisccoulsonseb128 - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/ says "early June" now, but an e-mail i have specifies the actual date11:19
mvoslomo: aptdaemon backend is ready, I'm not sure if I can commit directly to svn, I will send you a bugreport+patch11:19
seb128chrisccoulson, ok11:19
seb128chrisccoulson, pitti: hey11:22
seb128do you know where https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty should be sent?11:22
pittiuda sounds fine11:23
seb128pitti, thanks11:26
seb128chrisccoulson, can you check that the wiki draft is ok with you?11:26
seb128I've just updated it to point to ara's email for testing instructions11:26
seb128pitti, ^ comments are welcome from you as well if you have any11:26
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, can do11:26
seb128(rickspencer asked me to send that announce when we are ready for testing)11:26
seb128hum, 1, 2, 3 are missing it seems11:27
seb128chrisccoulson, you are editing? can you add11:28
seb128[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel11:28
seb128[2] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa11:28
seb128or the ppa is rather 311:28
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i was just going to do that11:29
araseb128, chrisccoulson: I also blogged about it for people reading only planet.u.c (http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/call-for-testing-firefox/)11:34
seb128ara, thanks!11:34
chrisccoulsonseb128 - ok, i've finished editing now11:40
seb128chrisccoulson, thank you!11:40
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
seb128chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"11:55
seb128chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"11:56
seb128chrisccoulson, does that seem good for the email title?11:56
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, that seems fine11:56
seb128or "coming changes for the stable Ubuntu versions"?11:56
seb128ok sent11:59
seb128pitti, who is moderating u-d-a?11:59
pittiI can12:00
seb128pitti, if you could review my email there that would be great12:00
pittiit's not in the queue yet, though12:01
pittiFrom:     info@banksnews.gr12:02
pittiSubject:  Σενάριο καταστροφής και… κρατικοποίησης τραπεζών!12:02
pittiseb128: ^ this wasn't it, right? :-)12:02
* pitti just killed that12:02
seb128pitti, it was!12:02
seb128jk ;-)12:02
pittiso, might take a bit12:02
pittiI'm back in 30, lunch time12:02
seb128pitti, it went through it seems12:02
pittiah, so someone beat me to it then12:02
chrisccoulsonso, the fun begins now ;)12:03
seb128pitti, is uda moderated for ubuntu emails?12:03
seb128pitti, it's weird, I pinged you when I sent the email12:03
seb128somebody is very efficient at moderating it seems ;-)12:03
pittior there is a whitelist, which I'm not on :) (nor Steve, etc.)12:03
pittiseb128 special magic12:04
pittianyway, bbl12:04
seb128lunch there as well12:04
* didrocks is sure there is a lot of (if nick == "seb128") everywhere in ubuntu and in the infrastructure :)12:04
didrockspitti: seb128 enjoy your lunch :)12:04
seb128didrocks, thanks, you as well if you didn't lunch yet12:08
didrocksseb128: thanks :) I'll a little bit later, still want to finish some stuff before12:09
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== rodrigo__ is now known as rodrigo_
mvopitti: silly question, why does the stuff from https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-update-manager-improvements not show up on the foundations workitems traker?13:29
seb128mvo, you need to accept it13:29
pittimvo: it's only proposed for maverick, not accepted13:29
seb128mvo, the serie goal13:30
mvoaha, and I have not the powers to do that myself. thanks, I will ask colin to ack it13:30
pittimvo: can do for you13:30
pittimvo: done, and fixed the "workitems" -> "work items" typo, too13:31
mvothanks :)13:31
seb128vuntz, hey13:34
seb128vuntz, could you get dconf listed on your gnome versions?13:34
=== kenvandine_ is now known as kenvandine
vuntzseb128: ah, dconf. Hrm, good point13:37
seb128vuntz, thanks!13:37
ccheneygood morning13:51
kenvandinegood morning ccheney13:52
kenvandineand everyone else13:52
pittihey kenvandine13:53
kenvandinehey pitti13:55
=== br-sleep is now known as bratsche
seb128hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney14:00
seb128hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney14:00
ccheneyseb128, hi14:00
seb128hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney14:00
ccheneyheh :)14:00
seb128I though I was on the dialog next to xchat14:01
seb128kenvandine, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-sound-menu-v214:02
seb128kenvandine, how are your work items for alpha1 there going?14:02
kenvandinealmost done14:03
kenvandinebindings are done14:03
kenvandinebut distcheck is upset14:03
rickspencer3hi all14:03
kenvandinehopefully finish that this morning14:03
didrockshey rickspencer314:03
kenvandinehey rickspencer314:03
didrockshello kenvandine14:03
kenvandinehey didrocks14:04
seb128rickspencer3, how are you?14:04
rickspencer3seb128, ok14:04
seb128rickspencer3, I've updated the team meeting template, should the members on rotations still be listed there?14:04
rickspencer3I'm trying to get up a little earlier this week14:04
seb128rickspencer3, I left them for now since they still have some % of their time and might want to joing the meetings14:05
rickspencer3seb128, yeah, I need to update the template14:05
rickspencer3I usually just edit it a bit when I create it14:05
seb128rickspencer3, I've updated the team members and the maverick workitems url14:05
seb128I was just not sure about the rotations14:05
seb128I left those for now14:05
rickspencer3thanks seb12814:05
rickspencer3seb128, how are you? looks like quite a bit of work got done  yesterday despite the holidays14:06
chrisccoulsonasac - do we need to migrate settings in /etc/firefox-3.0/pref to the new location in hardy (or is it even safe to do that)?14:07
seb128rickspencer3, I'm great ;-)14:07
seb128rickspencer3, we got the call for testing and announce for firefox updates done as well14:07
seb128thanks to ara and chrisccoulson14:07
chrisccoulsoni just noticed the old directory is still there after the upgrade after looking at the comments on http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4173/53714:07
chrisccoulsonhey :)14:07
seb128aquarius, hi14:11
seb128aquarius, did you open that pygobject bug?14:11
chrisccoulsonara - all of the extensions are in the PPA now btw, i'm not sure if you want to add these to http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/417314:11
aquariusseb128, I haven't yet because it doesn't show up until a patch goes into Rhythmbox to add Python bindings for impl_want_uri and impl_add_uri14:12
seb128aquarius, well the bug is there anyway, I wanted to clear that from my sru list14:13
aquariusseb128, oh, ok -- I figured it wouldn't need SRUing because the version of RB in lucid doesn't show the bug...but I'll go report it once I finish this conf call14:14
seb128aquarius, well, I though it would be useful for you to get the fix in lucid and it might happen in other cases than rhythmbox no?14:15
seb128aquarius, thanks14:15
aquariusseb128, agreed, so I should have filed it. Will do :-)14:15
asacchrisccoulson: your call ;)14:16
asacwould obviously be nice,14:16
seb128hey asac14:17
seb128how are you?14:17
seb128back to europe? ;-)14:17
asacseb128: yeah ;)14:18
asacand feel pretty wasted from this timezone flight thing and direclty being busted with work ;) ... but we already know thats life ;)14:19
seb128pitti, could you accept the rhythmbox sru to updates now? I want to do another sru upload14:53
seb128it has 8 days of testing and has been verified now14:53
pittiseb128: ack14:54
LaserJockdidrocks: so my netbook went kinda crazy yesterday. I got the new blingier netbook-launcher, but I lost suspend/resume. I then rebooted a few times and eventually I got suspend/resume back and no blingy n-l14:57
didrocksLaserJock: hum that's weird. I don't think this is related to the update, but hopefully, that's easy to check14:58
didrocksLaserJock: first, have a look at your GNOME session in gdm and try to do the same :)14:58
LaserJockwell, I can't repeat it is the thing14:58
didrocksLaserJock: then, if it's not related, try to remove CLUTTER_VBLANK in the exec= like of /etc/xdg/xdg-une/netbook-launcher.desktop14:59
LaserJockI mean, I spent a day with this blingy n-l14:59
LaserJockthen mysteriously after several reboots it went away14:59
didrockshum… that's weird, you mean that netbook-launcher is slow now?15:00
LaserJockslow? no, not at all15:00
LaserJockit just doesn't have the cool effects15:00
didrocksLaserJock: hum, that's what you called blingy. are you sure it wasn't the 2D session you were on?15:00
LaserJockI don't know, could be15:01
LaserJockit used a fair amount of CPU15:01
didrocksLaserJock: logout, and try "Ubuntu Netbook 2D"15:01
LaserJockdidrocks: yep, that was it15:03
LaserJockI thought the 2D n-l was more boring :-)15:04
didrocksLaserJock: ok, for unknown reason, it fallbacked for you to the 2D session before rebooting :)15:04
LaserJockso I guess something was weird with my kernel and I lost suspend/resume/3D15:04
LaserJockalright, well, mystery solved I guess15:05
LaserJockit had some cool effects though15:05
didrocksLaserJock: the goes to the up or down? I understand better our conversation now :)15:06
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
chrisccoulsonword travels fast: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw16:51
bcurtiswxchrisccoulson: someone actually pays attention to mailing lists??? :P16:55
LaserJockmailing lists? I assume phoronix has an IRC by this point ;-)16:56
LaserJock*IRC bot16:56
rickspencer3ArneGoetje, bryceh, chrisccoulson, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, Riddell, seb128, pitti - Team meeting time in 1 minute?17:29
didrockshey o/17:29
rickspencer3should be quick today, I guess17:30
rickspencer3not a lot on the agenda17:30
ccheneyhi :)17:30
ograyou should put a sign into #ubuntu-meeting for the community :)17:30
ograsomeone is waiting for the desktop team meeting there it seems17:30
rickspencer3ogra, can you send them here please?17:31
rickspencer3shall we start?17:31
ograRiddell already did17:31
rickspencer3thanks ogra17:31
rickspencer3and Riddell17:31
rickspencer3Outstanding actions from last meeting17:31
tremoluxheya everyone17:31
rickspencer3ACTION: chrisccoulson to investigate any chromium changes appropriate for the distro17:31
chrisccoulsonhello everyone17:31
rickspencer3hi tremolux17:31
* rickspencer3 adds tremolux to list of pingees17:32
* kenvandine waves17:32
tremoluxrickspencer3: :D17:32
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, I assume that you've been way to busy for this17:32
chrisccoulsonwell, i've not had much chance to look at anything other than firefox over the last week ;)17:32
rickspencer3I would have been worried if you had been able to make time for this :)17:32
rickspencer3I would have expected some kind of "Back to the Future" scenario :)17:32
rickspencer3ACTION: kenvandine to clarify with Dx what is in scope for A2 (DONE)17:32
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to poke squinky about kubuntu.org17:33
rickspencer3I poked him, he said eow, last week17:33
kenvandinedx blueprints seem to be in order17:33
Riddellrickspencer3: I guess another poke is due17:33
rickspencer3Riddell, has it been done?17:33
Riddellnot seen anything done17:33
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to repoke previously poked squinky17:34
rickspencer3wrt kubuntu.org branding17:34
rickspencer3moving on17:34
rickspencer3kenvandine, partner update?17:34
kenvandineDX team blueprints are accepted and assigned17:34
kenvandineWIs all seem to be there17:34
rickspencer3(thus the "done" from last week's action item)17:34
kenvandineand we did the first round of weekly releases17:35
kenvandineOLS still has some work on their blueprints17:35
kenvandinetheir's aren't accepted for a series17:35
kenvandinehe is working on getting that done today17:35
rickspencer3kenvandine, I can accept if needed, just PM links17:35
kenvandineso none of them show up in the burn downs17:35
rickspencer3Riddell, Kubuntu update17:36
rickspencer3whilest he is copy and pasting: didrocks, tremolux, I think similar weekly updates on UNE and software center would be nice17:37
Riddell * new versions of KDE 4.5, 4.4, Amarok, KOffice all in17:37
Riddell * merges all done in main17:37
Riddell * alpha 1 now has candidate CDs but not working especially well17:37
didrocksrickspencer3: I was just thinking about that, will do for next week :)17:37
tremoluxrickspencer3: sure17:37
rickspencer3Riddell, thanks ... need any help w alpha 1 CDs?17:38
Riddellrickspencer3: don't think so, we'll sort them out17:38
rickspencer3thanks Riddell17:38
rickspencer3seb128, chrisccoulson ... would it be worthwhile to say a quick word on mozilla updates for stable releases?17:39
rickspencer3does it seem on track, etc...17:39
chrisccoulsonyeah, can do, although i haven't prepared ;)17:39
rickspencer3(make sure everyone is in the loop)17:39
chrisccoulsonso, seb128 sent a call for testing out today17:39
seb128(seems chrisccoulson is on it)17:39
seb128ara sent the call for testing17:40
seb128I did send the announce email17:40
chrisccoulsonah, yes ;)17:40
rickspencer3is the mozilla release date public knowledge, etc...?17:40
chrisccoulsonfor hardy, we have firefox and all the extensions up-to-date in the PPA, and i'm currently going through the other xulrunner rdepends17:40
chrisccoulsonfirefox for jaunty is done17:40
chrisccoulsonand we're famous: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw17:40
asacwe are famous?17:41
chrisccoulsonthe 3.6.4 release is scheduled for monday17:41
chrisccoulsonasac - well, not entirely ;)17:41
chrisccoulsonbut word has spread quickly17:41
rickspencer3how come when chrisccoulson says this stuff, it's work, but when phoronix republishes it, it's news17:41
rickspencer3thanks for the update chrisccoulson17:42
rickspencer3and wow! thanks for all the hard work17:42
asac(oh its meeting ... /me stops)17:42
chrisccoulsonheh, you're welcome ;)17:42
chrisccoulsonmicahg has put in a lot of effort too17:42
rickspencer3I think that "thanks" comes from everyone, the team, community, etc...17:43
rickspencer3thanks to micahg as well then :)17:43
rickspencer3and asac, and ara, and seb128 ;)17:43
rickspencer3ok, moving on?17:43
rickspencer3seb128, release status?17:43
seb128is the chart for alpha117:44
seb128we are a bit behind on this one but alpha1 was rather a target of opportunity for early start17:44
seb128we are moving things to alpha2 now17:44
seb128which brings us to http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html17:44
seb128the trend line is not really adjusted there (will be fixed when pitti reset it for us)17:45
seb128but we can see we are lagging a bit behind17:45
seb128we just had 2 long weekends though with holidays in europe and the uk,us17:45
seb128and people have been busy doing merges or firefox updates17:45
seb128so I guess we will catch up quickly17:45
seb128don't forget to set your items to done regularly17:45
seb128so we can track progress17:46
seb128that's it17:46
tremoluxrickspencer3: btw, if you like I can paste a quickly-written software-center summary17:46
seb128rickspencer3, thanks17:46
kenvandineseb128, my last a1 one will be done in a few minutes :)17:46
rickspencer3tremolux, that would be nice17:46
tremoluxProgress on desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end (3 work items done)17:46
tremoluxBunch of bug fixes this week, and branch reviews/merged completed that fix memory leak issues, UI tweaks17:46
tremoluxFor desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release, we have a decision about a repo - will use a PPA17:46
tremoluxand mvo and I have been planning the implementation based on that17:46
tremoluxalso, mvo has begun implementing LP login code, has a branch and will test with LP staging server17:46
tremoluxI think that covers the main stuff17:47
tremoluxis that what you are looking for?17:47
rickspencer3tremolux, yeah17:48
rickspencer3I am particularly interested in ensuring that we are in synch with launchpad team17:48
rickspencer3so a check in on their progress each week would be helpful17:48
tremoluxrickspencer3: yep, understood17:48
rickspencer3and good news about deciding on the repo, Let the Games Begin!17:49
rickspencer3ok, so I am a bit concerned about our burndown charts, but seb128 covered that well17:49
rickspencer3any other business?17:49
didrocksyeah o/17:49
didrocksonce you tested that firefox isn't broken for you :-) I would like to get some testing on oneconf (and not stay in a WFM state)17:49
didrocksI've made a wiki page for that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing17:49
didrocksThis contain mostly all the backend (both direct action and dbus activated) and would be nice to test with your setup and report bugs about invalid applications/codec listed or missing17:49
didrocksBonus point if you test the "diff" feature in using it in more than one host as this is the interesting part :-)17:50
didrocksOtherwise I'm pretty confident on the current state and then, oneconf is just waiting on the plugin interface to be implemented in software-center17:50
rickspencer3sounds good17:50
rickspencer3ACTION: Everyone test mozilla and oneconf17:51
rickspencer3any other other business?17:51
seb128didrocks, one small note, could you try using the DesktopTeam namespace maybe, will make easier to find it ;-)17:51
seb128rickspencer3, no17:51
seb128just a reminder that we should merge on debian17:51
didrocksseb128: sure, updating so right now (the trunk)17:51
seb128so please take some time doing your merges if you didn't yet ;-)17:51
seb128didrocks, thanks17:51
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
rickspencer3ACTION: Everyone get caught up on Debian merges17:52
rickspencer3ok, I guess that's a wrap?17:52
* rickspencer3 taps gavel17:53
kenvandinefast meeting17:53
didrocksthanks ;)17:53
chrisccoulson23 minutes ;)17:53
chrisccoulsondoes anyone testing hardy find it really annoying that the buttons are on the right?17:54
chrisccoulsonperhaps we should do a SRU to move them ;)17:54
seb128thanks rickspencer317:54
tremoluxchrisccoulson: ha!  yeah, I'm converted now too17:54
chrisccoulsonyeah, i keep moving my mouse to the left now17:55
rickspencer3I always hit alt-space to manage windows17:55
rickspencer3it's like the slowest keyboard way of doing it, but I have been doing that for years17:55
seb128what does alt-space do?17:56
chrisccoulsonyeah, i just tried that. it seems quite awkward to do17:56
seb128pitti, did you reset the trend lines for us?17:56
chrisccoulsonseb128 - it opens the window menu17:56
rickspencer3well, I do alt-c then c, for example17:56
rickspencer3I don't actually read the menu17:56
seb128oh, right17:57
pittiseb128, rickspencer3: alpha-N trend line will reset automatically once alpha-(N-1) is released17:57
seb128ok, thanks17:57
rickspencer3pitti, ack17:57
rickspencer3pitti, how about what ivanka and TheDoctor are asking about in email?17:58
pittiseb128: I did that for the entire cycle, AFAIR17:58
rickspencer3about the design team work items?17:58
pittirickspencer3: I'll get to it; sorry, too much distraction today with alpha-1 stuff17:58
seb128pitti, when will it be updated?17:58
rickspencer3pitti, understood17:58
seb128pitti, this night I guess?17:58
pitti        'canonical-desktop-team': 253,17:59
pitti        ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-1'): 8,17:59
pitti        ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-2'): 130,17:59
pittithat's what I committed some hours ago17:59
pittiit should be current _now_17:59
pittihttp://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html looks just fine to me17:59
pittiand the other ones match those numbers as well18:00
pittiseb128: so what's actually wrong?18:00
seb128pitti, the trend line start at 256?18:00
seb128I though the reset would give one bar18:00
seb128with the line starting today at 29018:01
pittiseb128: no, then we'd need to drop history entirely, and that affects charts from other teams as well18:01
seb128oh ok18:01
pittinext time we need to define a clear spec drafting cutoff point18:01
pittiat which we purge the entire DB18:01
pittiper-team purging messes up other charts and doesn't work18:01
seb128ok, makes sense18:01
pitti(for items that other team's members do for your's, and vice versa)18:01
seb128thanks, sorry for the noise18:02
didrocksseb128: do you have an example of redirection with moinsmoinswiki?18:03
seb128I'm not a wiki user18:03
seb128but don't bother for this one now18:03
didrocksseb128: ok, I'll note for later :)18:04
=== cking is now known as cking-afk
chrisccoulsoncan anybody get liferea working in hardy before the mozilla update?18:48
chrisccoulsonit just freezes here :/18:48
vishdidrocks: for redirect, in the old page just add:18:53
vish#redirect NameOfNewWiki18:53
didrocksvish: thanks :)19:01
vishnp. :)19:01
chrisccoulsonthe webkit version of epiphany feels like a downgrade from the gecko version :(19:31
chrisccoulsoni can't even get my extra mouse buttons to work properly19:31
seb128not a lot we can do about that though19:31
chrisccoulsonyeah, it seems a bit sub-optimal for a security update though19:32
seb128it does indeed19:32
seb128there is probably not so many users on epiphany and still !lucid though19:33
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
aranddidrocks: Since you seem to look out for metacity, are you aware of Bug #584287 (and would you mind grabbing the patch?)20:55
ubot2Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 7) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58428720:55
dupondjehi guys, did somebody already check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/584287 ?21:18
ubot2Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 8) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:18
seb128didrocks, ^ could you look at this one tomorrow?21:36
faganI can confirm it too21:37
seb128dupondje, some people mentioned it before but most people are not running maverick yet or using compiz21:37
arandseb128: From my experience and the talk in ubuntu+1 I would consider it fully confirmed along with the patch by Fabien Tassin confirmed to fix it, not sure if it's the right way to fix it though..21:42
seb128arand, nobody said it was considered confirmed21:43
seb128we just have nobody who works on this sofware right now21:43
dupondjei'm checking it atm, but have to do the dishes :'(21:46
rlameirohello everyone21:47
rlameirohow can I add a link to switch keyboard layout on 10.04?21:48
seb128rlameiro, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions21:48
rlameiroin Karmic it had that option, but in lucid its missing.21:48
rlameirowell, i asked in here because this is made by this team, if someone removed this functionality it is the desktop team21:49
rlameirobut ok i will go there...21:49
seb128no, if somebody removed this option it's the software writers21:49
arandseb128: Yea, just your comment before sounded a bit doubting :) And didrocks did do a merge not too long ago... But anyways, just making sure people are aware (since it breaks firefox)21:50
seb128arand, how is firefox broken? flashplayer or decorations?21:50
seb128arand, in any case it's a different issue than the one listed before21:51
dupondjeit flickers like hell21:51
dupondjesame for thunderbird etc21:51
faganseb128: is rgba supposed to be on by default yet?21:51
faganor is that coming later21:51
seb128fagan, depends of what you call on21:51
seb128the theme doesn't use it21:51
faganseb128: ah that must be it21:52
faganI was wondering I saw that csd was turned on but didnt get any rgba21:52
arandseb128: as long as firefox is present metacity is completely bust, cannot change focus or input, only if firefox is closed it comes back working, and one can get a terminal and --replace metcity as well...21:54
dobeywhat does 'waiting for approval' mean for an upload for lucid-proposed?22:01
geseran archive admin has to press a button and let it through (accept it into the archive)22:04
dobeyah ok22:04
geserusually that also includes some checks like SRU ack and correct versioning22:04
seb128dobey, sru need to be reviewed by the sru team before being accepted though22:05
seb128so make sure you follow the sru rules22:05
seb128you need to subscribe the sru team and have a testcase and a debdiff to review on the bug22:06
dobeyseb128: before being accepted in -proposed? or just in the main archive?22:06
seb128there is only one upload target for stable updates22:06
seb128I'm not sure to understand the question22:06
seb128lucid is stable, ie locked22:06
seb128nothing go to lucid now22:07
dobeymaybe i'm confused about the process for sru then. but i thought fix in -proposed and it gets testing and then is approved to go to -updates22:08
dobey(or isn't approved if testing points that direction instead)22:08
james_wthere's a first check as to whether it is suitable, and whether the rationale is good, there is a test case etc.22:09
james_wthen there is the check as to whether it passed verification before it lands in -updates22:09
seb128dobey, you are right22:09
seb128but it's reviewed first22:09
james_wno point in testing something that won't be accepted later22:09
dobeyah, ok, right22:09
dobeysorry :)22:09
seb128no worry :-)22:10
seb128no worry :-)22:10
seb128I should really turn touchpad off and use a mouse again there22:10
dobeyjust buy a smaller laptop that doesn't have room for a touchpad :)22:12
dobeyseb128: ok, most everything was done already for the bug anyway (already nominated, sru team subscribed, TEST CASE documented...), so I just attached the debdiff from my upload :)22:20
dobeyseb128: bug is #57154822:20
seb128dobey, ok, so you just need to have somebody from the sru team to review now22:21
dupondjewithout client side decoration patch22:42
dupondjemetacity works !22:42
rickspencer3oh shuks23:58
rickspencer32 minutes until Eastern Edition23:58
RAOFtick, tick, tick... :)23:59
* rickspencer3 gets IRC log onto woki23:59
rickspencer3the wiki too23:59
rickspencer3I haven't told you guys about the woki yet23:59
rickspencer3but it will be cool, and not at all a type23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!