[00:19] <robert_ancell> RAOF, math question about order of operations - do you know if the order of multiplication and division is strictly required to be left to right?  I'd like to do multiplication first so the following works: 1×10²÷2×10¹
[00:19] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Multiplication & division are commutative; it doesn't matter which way you order them.
[00:19] <RAOF> robert_ancell: In fact, division doesn't exist.  It's a convenient fiction.
[00:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, if you treat the above as exponential numbers it does make a difference unfortunately
[00:20] <RAOF> Well, it's because you're missing some brackets.
[00:21] <RAOF> 1×10²×2^(-1)×10^(-1) will work, and doesn't matter what order you do it in.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> yes, I wonder if this is going to make exponential numbers unusable
[00:21] <robert_ancell> (without brackets)
[00:22] <robert_ancell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620191
[00:22] <ubot2> Gnome bug 620191 in general "Exp button replaced with x10^y caused changed semantics" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[00:23] <RAOF> So, how do you tell the difference between (1×10²) (semantically a single number with an exponential representation) and 1×10²?
[00:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, that's it, I can't
[00:23] <robert_ancell> Though visually you would expect to be able to, and if you wrote the equation on paper you wouldn't bother with brackets (but might use some spacing to distinguish)
[00:24] <JanC> eh, what's the difference?  :P
[00:24] <RAOF> Well, I *personally* wouldn't write a number like that :)
[00:24] <robert_ancell> JanC, the difference matters when you do the above division example
[00:24] <JanC> according to the math I learned, they are exactly the same?
[00:25] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what would you write?
[00:25] <RAOF> If you want to support it I think you'll need a dedicated button.
[00:25] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I'd probably enclose them in brackets.
[00:26] <robert_ancell> So I'm wondering if I could be clever and work out the difference but I think it would just make the match unpredictable (and probably incorrect)
[00:26] <RAOF> But that's partially because I'm a mathematician, not an engineer :)
[00:26] <robert_ancell> RAOF, sure.  So that sounds like the correct solution, I have to decide if the correct solution is more important than the practical solution. hmmm
[00:27] <JanC> eh, I'm not a mathematician, and I use brackets when I want to override normal operation order
[00:28] <JanC> they teached that in primary school IIRC  ;)
[00:28] <RAOF> I think you'll need a dedicated button - it's a different way to enter a number, one that's basically indistingishable from entering an operation.
[00:28] <RAOF> Hm.  If you had a dedicated button you could also do funky things, like preserve precision across calculations.
[00:29] <RAOF> JanC: Yeah, but engineers (and scientists) deal with numbers like 2.53×10² _all the time_.
[00:29] <JanC> is this about an alternative to xEy notation used by many calculators?
[00:29] <robert_ancell> JanC, so if you wanted to do that division, do you think you would have put the brackets in the first time?  Would you have been suprised if you got the wrong answer?
[00:30] <robert_ancell> JanC, yes, I removed that notation, I've been trying to get gcalctool to do correct mathematical notation where possible
[00:30] <robert_ancell> RAOF, the issue is parsing the 'E' notation, as E can be a variable now.  Do you know of any alternative symbols to use?
[00:31] <JanC> eh, E can be a variable in the middle ?
[00:33] <robert_ancell> JanC, "10E-2"
[00:33] <robert_ancell> I need a unicode "*10" glyph :)
[00:33] <JanC> still, there is nothing that looks like an operator before the E ?
[00:34] <JanC> depends on how you parse things of course
[00:34] <robert_ancell> 10E = 10*E
[00:35] <robert_ancell> so now you can do calculations like 2πr which I think is a bigger win
[00:36] <JanC> but that would be wrong syntax if you wanted to express an exponent?
[00:36] <robert_ancell> if you have a variable E, e.g. E=2, 10E-2 = 18
[00:36] <JanC> oh
[00:36] <JanC> you want to remove the need for * ?
[00:36] <JanC> please don't  :P
[00:37] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I think there actually is a ×10 glyph
[00:37] <robert_ancell> it's gone! How can you do polynomials without it?  (The syntax choices are in the order that is is taught in schools, i.e. polynomials are a higher priority than exponential numbers)
[00:46] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hm.  Can you have 3.65EXP6 translate to the glyphs 3.65×10⁶ and parse that specially?  Users are unlikely to be entering ×10⁶ themselves, right?
[00:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF, Ctrl+E enters ×10 and puts you in superscript mode, so it is fast to enter exponentials (as long as you work out the shortcut key - it's in the tooltip)
[00:48] <JanC> RAOF: I enter that when writing text, but in general not on a calculator  ;)
[00:48] <robert_ancell> and again, 3.65EXP-6 could be a valid equation
[00:49] <robert_ancell> What calculators do you guys use?  I really want a good engineering/scientific/programming calculator app I can recommend that advanced users install.  The best I have found are speedcrunch and qalculate
[00:50] <RAOF> I don't use a calculator.  Mathematician's don't deal with numbers. :)
[00:50] <JanC> a python shell  ;)
[00:51] <robert_ancell> heh, we're all the wrong class of users :)
[00:52] <JanC> but why would people want to do polynomials on their calculator?
[00:52] <JanC> I never owned one that could do that?
[00:54] <JanC> isn't that more something for a dedicated application?
[00:55] <robert_ancell> well, these are the sorts of calculations that people know about, so I think it makes sense to have a tool that does that.  My calculator could sort of do simple polynomials.
[00:55] <robert_ancell> I think most people are happy as long as the calculator does (1+2)*3
[00:56] <JanC> hm, what about using spaces?
[00:56] <robert_ancell> spaces for?
[00:58] <JanC> well, 3.65 * E * 6 could be writen as 3.65 E 6, but not as 3.65E6 ?
[01:00] <robert_ancell> JanC, looks too ambiguous
[01:01] <JanC> hm, another idea, variables are written in italics in math, maybe you can use that?
[01:02] <robert_ancell> I think I've seen notation where the 'E' is 3/4 size, looking for a glyph
[01:02] <robert_ancell> JanC, I explored that a while back, the problem is entering with the keyboard - either they always have to be in italics (which screws up the functions) or you need a modifier key for each variable
[01:06] <RAOF> Certainly using a different E glyph would work.
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1ⅇ2 1⋿2
[01:08] <robert_ancell> ?
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1𝐄2
[01:08] <robert_ancell> 1𝐸2
[01:09] <robert_ancell> 1𝑬2, 1𝗘2 1𝑬2
[01:09] <robert_ancell> 1𝝚2
[01:11] <JanC> seems like http://xrjunque.nom.es/precis/Admfns.aspx uses brackets & * when things are confusing  ;)
[01:12] <RAOF> I think the last one is better.
[01:12] <RAOF> 1𝝚2
[01:13] <robert_ancell> yes, I think I'll do that
[01:13] <robert_ancell> It will be optional though, or perhaps it should happen automatically in engineering mode?
[01:13] <RAOF> ⅇ is blackboard bold, and will probably confuse mathematicians.  ⋿ looks a lot like a reverse “there exists” quantifier; I'm not sure what that's for :).
[01:13] <RAOF> Probably automatically in engineering mode.
[01:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it is "notation bag membership"
[01:14] <robert_ancell> whatever that is
[01:14] <RAOF> Ah, ok.
[01:24] <robert_ancell> hmm, bugzilla freaked out with that glyph, cut off half my comment!!
[01:25] <RAOF> :)
[01:41] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, can you look at brasero in bzr?  It's not ubuntu-desktop uploadable
[01:42] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sure.
[01:44] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Slight correction, you say in your changelog that its a rebase on debian testing, but the most recent debian changelog entry is unstable.
[01:46] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, right, I pulled it from testing, but it's just the version copied from unstable.  Feel free to correct (I wasn't sure at the time but I have been making later packages match the last changelog entry)
[01:46] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: heh ok, will adjust.
[01:56]  * robert_ancell argh! I build in a chroot and it still doesn't work when I upload!
[02:24] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: brasero uploaded
[02:29] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
[02:30] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: np
[03:36] <Sarvatt> well all this talk about gcalctool made me pull the hold off my old version and I noticed the bit editor is fixed, you rock robert_ancell! :) it stopped showing when you inputted any hex characters for awhile there and thats all I use it for
[03:37] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, yeah, the last release was a bit of a problem.  Let me know if you find any issues in the new one!
[03:37] <Sarvatt> need to decide hex register dumps
[03:37] <Sarvatt> decode*
[03:38] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, example?
[03:43] <Sarvatt> pulling this out of my rear here but if you run say intel_reg_dumper, it gives off a list of register dumps and you can decode what they mean in the docs. like say bit 14 of the FBC_STATUS register indicates its enabled
[03:43] <Sarvatt> but all you get from the dumper is 0x053f03ff
[03:44] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, can you put an example in paste.ubuntu.com?  Is the issue the 0x?
[03:44] <Sarvatt> from october until lucid's release if you entered say A it immediately stopped showing the bit representation of what you're inputting
[03:45] <Sarvatt> only worked in decimal
[03:46] <Sarvatt> like i'd enter 053 and it'd update it as I went but once I put in that f it just greyed out the area
[03:46] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, I'm confused, I thought you said there was a problem in the latest version
[03:47] <Sarvatt> oh no I'm sorry, I was saying all the talk about it made me remove the hold for the really old version I had that worked to try it out and I saw it was fixed now
[03:47] <robert_ancell> Sarvatt, great :)
[05:19] <pitti> Good morning
[05:23] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey
[05:24] <pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
[05:24] <robert_ancell> pitti, good! Guess it's your tuesday now so I have to stop uploading :)
[05:24] <pitti> heh
[08:02] <didrocks> good morning
[08:03] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:03] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you? at work at 6AM as usually in Munich apparenty? ;)
[08:04] <pitti> yep :)
[08:10] <didrocks> pitti: do you think that's because this blueprint wasn't accepted for UDS-M "sprint" that it doesn't appear in the WI tracker: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-unity-une-integration ?
[08:16] <pitti> didrocks: I fixed the blueprint syntax, "work items" must not appear in [ ]
[08:16] <didrocks> pitti: urgh, my fault so, sorry. Thanks! :)
[08:16] <pitti> de rien :)
[08:49] <summers> i would like to invite everyone to my new ubuntu channel, #ubuntu-faggots
[08:49] <summers> +o for everyone
[09:00] <pitti> thanks, jussi
[09:00] <pitti> I didn't really get the joke, but it didn't sound constructive
[09:00] <seb128> hello pitti
[09:00] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:00] <jussi> pitti: he is a problem user that has been spamming pretty much across the ubuntu namespace
[09:01] <pitti> argh, I thought I just fixed those )#$*#$ retracers
[09:01]  * pitti pokes harder
[09:01] <didrocks> hey seb128
[09:01] <seb128> hello didrocks
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: which version of mutter do you need for gnome-shell?
[09:02] <didrocks> 2.31+ or 2.30 is enough?
[09:02] <seb128> 31
[09:03] <didrocks> seb128: understood, thanks :)
[09:03] <didrocks> seb128: how are you btw?
[09:04] <seb128> didrocks, I'm great, thank you, what about you?
[09:04] <rodrigo_> morning
[09:04] <didrocks> seb128: slowly recovering up from the lack of sleep. Otherwise I'm good thanks :)
[09:04] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[09:04] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[09:04] <rodrigo_> what's the process to get a package added to ubuntu universe?
[09:04] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks, seb128
[09:05] <jussi> Ill leave you good people alone again. Have fun!
[09:05] <rodrigo_> it's about wdfs, for tomboy webdav syncing
[09:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, easier is to get it in debian, otherwise try #ubuntu-motu or wiki documentation
[09:06] <rodrigo_> didrocks, btw, haven't forgotten about the couchdb-based dconf backend, just waiting on desrt to write the API needed
[09:06] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[09:06] <didrocks> rodrigo_: sweet! no hurry in any case :)
[09:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey, there is an evince update in bzr if you want to sponsor.
[09:13] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[09:13] <robert_ancell> didrocks, thanks for the autotools heads up!
[09:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok, can do that later, I'm catching up with other things right now
[09:13] <seb128> or maybe didrocks wants to do some sponsoring ;-)
[09:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's not critical, just a merge
[09:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw we settled on the dconf binaries yesterday
[09:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, yup, saw that.  Left them in one package I see :)
[09:14] <seb128> right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever
[09:14] <seb128> right, since nothing is supposed to use the lib and there is abi, api, dbus compability whatsoever
[09:14] <seb128> ups
[09:15] <seb128> I somewhat think it's an upstream fail but shrug
[09:15] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, that was what I was worried about.
[09:15] <seb128> what is the point to make it a system library if it's not supposed to be one?
[09:16] <robert_ancell> it's really just a gsettings backends
[09:16] <seb128> right
[09:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, didrocks: did you guys decide to use that new cdbs autoreconf rules?
[09:19] <robert_ancell> I haven't tried the new method but the DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_* variables seem to be working well
[09:20] <seb128> well, we had discussions about it previous cycles I think
[09:20] <robert_ancell> didrocks, I think the main difference will be one line instead of 4 in debian/rules?  i.e. autoreconf runs the same set of tools
[09:20] <seb128> it's not using autoreconf but trying to call autoconf, automake etc
[09:20] <seb128> where autoreconf has the logic to run autotools in the right order to work
[09:21] <robert_ancell> seb128, sure, it will be better to use autoreconf
[09:21] <robert_ancell> (my point being I've done a number of packages and they seem to build well, so I expect the autoreconf stuff will work just as well)
[09:22] <seb128> ok, nice
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, did you see my workitems ping yesterday?
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, could you reset the maverick charts for us?
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: no, I don't think I did
[09:24] <seb128> the trendline is not adjusted we want to start from now
[09:24] <pitti> hm, we did last week already?
[09:24] <pitti> ok
[09:24] <seb128> see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
[09:24] <seb128> I checked with rickspencer3 and he agreed to reset
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: robert_ancell I guess this tool is better if debian is using it, we can reduce the diff too
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: robert_ancell: needs sponsoring for evince?
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, debian is not using it they don't need to autoreconf at build time usually
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, if you can sponsor it that would be nice, I'm looking to some workitems and other things right now
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: sure but we have a tool that is called on the right time, copying the old configure and some cleaning safety
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: way better to redo that for every package
[09:26] <seb128> right
[09:26] <didrocks> so i'll be in favor going this path
[09:26] <seb128> I'm just saying it's not going to win us lot of diff over debian
[09:26] <didrocks> seb128: doing evince
[09:26] <seb128> not arguing we should not use it ;-)
[09:26] <seb128> thanks
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, great merge work ;-)
[09:27] <robert_ancell> seb128, so much merging to do... :)
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, we should be almost done no?
[09:28] <seb128> don't bother for those were the packaging is very different
[09:28] <seb128> ie gdm
[09:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, I see you've already got stuck into the gdm anger this morning :)
[09:28] <seb128> lol
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: committed
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: btw, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html seems a bit overly optimistic?
[09:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, can you push you rhythmbox changes?
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, right, it was sort of a fuzzy target
[09:30] <robert_ancell> seb128, whoops, pushing now
[09:30] <seb128> I'm moving things to alpha-2 tiday
[09:30] <robert_ancell> we need that tool
[09:30] <seb128> today
[09:30] <pitti> although the dconf one is done
[09:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: you can mark dconf as done
[09:30] <pitti> congrats to robert_ancell for doing all his alpha-1 tasks :)
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, right, doing so, thanks
[09:30]  * pitti hugs robert_ancell
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, did you review the binaries?
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: erm, no, did you ask me to?
[09:30] <pitti> sorry if I missed it
[09:30] <robert_ancell> ok gtg, see you guys tomorrow
[09:30] <pitti> good night robert_ancell
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, no, but since you rejected the first upload I figured you would review the new one
[09:31] <pitti> ah, can do in a minute
[09:31] <pitti> just uploading udisks
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, sorry if that was wrong assumption I did ;-)
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:32] <ara> seb128, shall we send the call for testing now?
[09:33] <seb128> ara, hey, how are you?
[09:33] <ara> seb128, doing good, thanks. yourself?
[09:33] <seb128> I'm great thank you!
[09:34] <seb128> ara, the call for testing, yes please, send it whenever you are ready ;-)
[09:34] <ara> seb128, OK, will do
[09:34] <seb128> ara, thanks!
[09:34] <ara> ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-qa?
[09:34]  * seb128 hugs ara for the great work
[09:34]  * ara hugs seb128 back
[09:34] <seb128> ara, yes
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: dconf newed
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[09:56] <mvo> slomo, seb128: what is the plan for gnome-codec-installer for maverick? will it be superseeded by session-installer? or is it still worth keeping it?
[09:58] <slomo> mvo: what's session-installer?
[09:58] <seb128> mvo, I've no opinion on it, I'm open to discuss it
[09:58] <mvo> slomo: the thing that glatzor works on to provide a packagekit compatible dbus api
[09:59] <mvo> seb128: ok, I was wondering if its woth spending time to make the backend for g-c-i optionally use aptdaemon
[09:59] <mvo> I guess that is a good move
[09:59] <mvo> slomo: I assume you would take a aptdaemon backend patch?
[09:59] <seb128> I know user testing showed that g-c-i has not a nice user experience
[10:00] <seb128> not sure if we want to work over it or just drop it for something else though
[10:00] <mvo> mostly because of our package naming
[10:00] <slomo> mvo: ah, well, the session-installer thing is suboptimal because of packagekit restrictions
[10:00] <seb128> that an the number of clicks
[10:00] <seb128> and the fact that it does list and select all the alternative for you
[10:00] <mvo> slomo: what problems exactly? do you have more info on this?
[10:01] <seb128> and the fact that there is quite some dialog jumping around during the installation
[10:01] <slomo> mvo: packagekit only knows about "success" or "failure", the codec installer has more than that (e.g. some plugins could be installed)
[10:01] <mvo> seb128: is there a summary of the issue? I know that there is talk about it, I heard about it only as chat, not as a written summary or something
[10:01] <mvo> slomo: aha, ok
[10:01] <seb128> mvo, not sure, I can check with ivanka if you want
[10:02] <mvo> seb128: thanks, would be nice
[10:02] <seb128> mvo, the complain were the number of clicks, the dialogs jumping rather than having something integrated to the software and the names
[10:02] <seb128> mvo, I will check with design
[10:02] <mvo> seb128: number of clicks> well, one to confirm the search, one to install
[10:02] <mvo> plus codec-warning-dialog (I would love to ditch this one)
[10:02] <seb128> on their user testing it was over ten clicks to get rhythmbox to play a mp3
[10:03] <seb128> on a stock installation
[10:03] <seb128> and they said it should be one click ;-)
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: it *should* be no click ;)
[10:03] <seb128> well you need to ask the user
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: but there are various contrains that make the ideal-world less ideal :P
[10:03] <mvo> seb128: ideally it would be installed by default
[10:04] <seb128> right, there is ideally what would happen and what we can technically do
[10:05] <mvo> yeah, that is my point. but I guess if there is no design yet for it, then its not feasible to radically change it for maverick
[10:05] <mvo> not enough time
[10:05] <seb128> right
[10:06] <mvo> thanks seb128, I do the merge and add a aptdaemon backend and send that as a patch to slomo then for now
[10:06] <slomo> mvo: sounds good
[10:06] <seb128> thanks
[10:06] <mvo> and maybe make it use less windows (more inline progress like the latest update-manager)
[10:07] <mvo> seb128: do you know what happend with this "morphing windows" stuff from DX? that may be a good target for this
[10:08] <seb128> no really, check with bratsche
[10:10] <mvo> ok, will do. thanks
[10:10] <mvo> g-c-i> fun little app, I like it
[10:10]  * mvo hugs slomo
[10:12] <slomo> :)
[10:25] <seb128> mvo, I still get update-notifier icon in the tray
[10:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you today?
[10:28] <seb128> I'm great ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> what about you?
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks, although a bit tired. i had quite a late night getting the rest of the hardy extensions updated
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> but they're all done now :)
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: aha, right. I fix it
[10:31] <seb128> mvo, thanks ;-)
[10:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
[10:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry that you had to work on an holiday
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's ok, it's better than doing gardening ;)
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> although i had to do some of that too
[10:32] <seb128> lol
[10:32] <seb128> it's not raining in the uk?
[10:32] <seb128> we have cold rainy weather there
[10:33] <didrocks> well, not sure why robert_ancell remerged evince as it's a no win (debian just renamed the patch I've integrated as a SRU differently), but well, pushed
[10:33] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[10:33] <ayan> morning guys.
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-mozilla-team-discussion btw
[10:33] <seb128> hey ayan, how are you?
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, could you update your alpha1 items there?
[10:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I guess you want to move those to alpha2 now?
[10:34] <ayan> seb128: doing great.
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that. i discussed those with rick on the phone last week and he suggested i move all of my alpha1 work items to alpha 2 anyway
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, now is time to do it, we will review the chart for the meeting today
[10:39] <seb128> didrocks, right, robert_ancell seems to be trying to be a good citizen and merges all sources once for the cycle
[10:40] <didrocks> seb128: I've already merged evince one week ago, hence my wondering…
[10:40] <seb128> he maybe didn't notice
[10:41] <seb128> I can't really speak for him though ;-)
[10:41] <didrocks> yeah, I guess that if he grepped on merges.ubuntu.com, the "updated merge" isn't really noticeable :)
[10:55] <seb128> mvo, the rgba emacs issue is likely an emacs bug
[10:59] <mvo> seb128: fair enough
[11:00] <seb128> I will let cody comment
[11:11] <seb128> mvo, using the new update-manager in maverick you need to enter the polkit authentification once for refresh and once to install upgrades, that's a bug or a polkit limitation since those are different actions so require different permissions set?
[11:12] <seb128> mvo, should I open a bug? ;-)
[11:14] <mvo> seb128: please open a bug
[11:14] <mvo> seb128: its kind-of a feature
[11:15] <mvo> seb128: having fine-grained control over the thing
[11:15] <mvo> seb128: please report against aptdaemon
[11:15] <seb128> mvo, ok
[11:17] <seb128> mvo, will do that after lunch
[11:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, when is the firefox new version scheduled for now?
[11:17] <seb128> upstream schedule
[11:18] <mvo> seb128: lunch> good idea!
[11:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - june 7th
[11:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/ says "early June" now, but an e-mail i have specifies the actual date
[11:19] <mvo> slomo: aptdaemon backend is ready, I'm not sure if I can commit directly to svn, I will send you a bugreport+patch
[11:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
[11:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: hey
[11:22] <seb128> do you know where https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty should be sent?
[11:22] <seb128> u-d-a?
[11:23] <pitti> uda sounds fine
[11:26] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[11:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can you check that the wiki draft is ok with you?
[11:26] <seb128> I've just updated it to point to ara's email for testing instructions
[11:26] <seb128> pitti, ^ comments are welcome from you as well if you have any
[11:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, can do
[11:26] <seb128> (rickspencer asked me to send that announce when we are ready for testing)
[11:27] <seb128> hum, 1, 2, 3 are missing it seems
[11:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you are editing? can you add
[11:28] <seb128> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel
[11:28] <seb128> [2] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[11:28] <seb128> or the ppa is rather 3
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i was just going to do that
[11:29] <seb128> thanks
[11:34] <ara> seb128, chrisccoulson: I also blogged about it for people reading only planet.u.c (http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/call-for-testing-firefox/)
[11:34] <seb128> ara, thanks!
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i've finished editing now
[11:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thank you!
[11:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"
[11:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, "New firefox support model and coming changes in stable updates"
[11:56] <seb128> grrr
[11:56] <seb128> sorry
[11:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, does that seem good for the email title?
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that seems fine
[11:56] <seb128> or "coming changes for the stable Ubuntu versions"?
[11:59] <seb128> ok sent
[11:59] <seb128> pitti, who is moderating u-d-a?
[12:00] <pitti> I can
[12:00] <seb128> pitti, if you could review my email there that would be great
[12:01] <pitti> it's not in the queue yet, though
[12:02] <pitti> From:     info@banksnews.gr
[12:02] <pitti> Subject:  Σενάριο καταστροφής και… κρατικοποίησης τραπεζών!
[12:02] <pitti> seb128: ^ this wasn't it, right? :-)
[12:02]  * pitti just killed that
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, it was!
[12:02] <seb128> jk ;-)
[12:02] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:02] <pitti> so, might take a bit
[12:02] <pitti> I'm back in 30, lunch time
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, it went through it seems
[12:02] <pitti> ah, so someone beat me to it then
[12:02] <pitti> good
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> so, the fun begins now ;)
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, is uda moderated for ubuntu emails?
[12:03] <pitti> yes
[12:03] <seb128> pitti, it's weird, I pinged you when I sent the email
[12:03] <seb128> somebody is very efficient at moderating it seems ;-)
[12:03] <pitti> or there is a whitelist, which I'm not on :) (nor Steve, etc.)
[12:04] <pitti> seb128 special magic
[12:04] <pitti> anyway, bbl
[12:04] <seb128> enjoy!
[12:04] <seb128> lunch there as well
[12:04]  * didrocks is sure there is a lot of (if nick == "seb128") everywhere in ubuntu and in the infrastructure :)
[12:04] <didrocks> pitti: seb128 enjoy your lunch :)
[12:08] <seb128> didrocks, thanks, you as well if you didn't lunch yet
[12:09] <didrocks> seb128: thanks :) I'll a little bit later, still want to finish some stuff before
[13:29] <mvo> pitti: silly question, why does the stuff from https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-update-manager-improvements not show up on the foundations workitems traker?
[13:29] <seb128> mvo, you need to accept it
[13:29] <pitti> mvo: it's only proposed for maverick, not accepted
[13:30] <seb128> mvo, the serie goal
[13:30] <mvo> aha, and I have not the powers to do that myself. thanks, I will ask colin to ack it
[13:30] <pitti> mvo: can do for you
[13:31] <pitti> mvo: done, and fixed the "workitems" -> "work items" typo, too
[13:31] <mvo> thanks :)
[13:34] <seb128> vuntz, hey
[13:34] <seb128> vuntz, could you get dconf listed on your gnome versions?
[13:37] <vuntz> seb128: ah, dconf. Hrm, good point
[13:37] <seb128> vuntz, thanks!
[13:51] <ccheney> good morning
[13:52] <kenvandine> good morning ccheney
[13:52] <kenvandine> and everyone else
[13:53] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[13:55] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <ccheney> seb128, hi
[14:00] <seb128> hello rickspencer3, kenvandine, ccheney
[14:00] <seb128> ups
[14:00] <seb128> sorry
[14:00] <ccheney> heh :)
[14:01] <seb128> I though I was on the dialog next to xchat
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-sound-menu-v2
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, how are your work items for alpha1 there going?
[14:03] <kenvandine> almost done
[14:03] <kenvandine> bindings are done
[14:03] <kenvandine> but distcheck is upset
[14:03] <rickspencer3> hi all
[14:03] <kenvandine> hopefully finish that this morning
[14:03] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[14:03] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:03] <didrocks> hello kenvandine
[14:04] <kenvandine> hey didrocks
[14:04] <seb128> rickspencer3, how are you?
[14:04] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok
[14:04] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've updated the team meeting template, should the members on rotations still be listed there?
[14:04] <rickspencer3> I'm trying to get up a little earlier this week
[14:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, I left them for now since they still have some % of their time and might want to joing the meetings
[14:05] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I need to update the template
[14:05] <rickspencer3> I usually just edit it a bit when I create it
[14:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've updated the team members and the maverick workitems url
[14:05] <seb128> I was just not sure about the rotations
[14:05] <seb128> I left those for now
[14:05] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[14:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, how are you? looks like quite a bit of work got done  yesterday despite the holidays
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> asac - do we need to migrate settings in /etc/firefox-3.0/pref to the new location in hardy (or is it even safe to do that)?
[14:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm great ;-)
[14:07] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[14:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, we got the call for testing and announce for firefox updates done as well
[14:07] <seb128> thanks to ara and chrisccoulson
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> i just noticed the old directory is still there after the upgrade after looking at the comments on http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/4173/537
[14:07] <rickspencer3> yup
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> hey :)
[14:11] <seb128> aquarius, hi
[14:11] <seb128> aquarius, did you open that pygobject bug?
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> ara - all of the extensions are in the PPA now btw, i'm not sure if you want to add these to http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4173
[14:12] <aquarius> seb128, I haven't yet because it doesn't show up until a patch goes into Rhythmbox to add Python bindings for impl_want_uri and impl_add_uri
[14:13] <seb128> aquarius, well the bug is there anyway, I wanted to clear that from my sru list
[14:14] <aquarius> seb128, oh, ok -- I figured it wouldn't need SRUing because the version of RB in lucid doesn't show the bug...but I'll go report it once I finish this conf call
[14:15] <seb128> aquarius, well, I though it would be useful for you to get the fix in lucid and it might happen in other cases than rhythmbox no?
[14:15] <seb128> aquarius, thanks
[14:15] <aquarius> seb128, agreed, so I should have filed it. Will do :-)
[14:16] <asac> chrisccoulson: your call ;)
[14:16] <asac> would obviously be nice,
[14:17] <seb128> hey asac
[14:17] <seb128> how are you?
[14:17] <seb128> back to europe? ;-)
[14:18] <asac> seb128: yeah ;)
[14:19] <asac> and feel pretty wasted from this timezone flight thing and direclty being busted with work ;) ... but we already know thats life ;)
[14:19] <seb128> hehe
[14:53] <seb128> pitti, could you accept the rhythmbox sru to updates now? I want to do another sru upload
[14:53] <seb128> it has 8 days of testing and has been verified now
[14:54] <pitti> seb128: ack
[14:54] <seb128> thanks
[14:57] <LaserJock> didrocks: so my netbook went kinda crazy yesterday. I got the new blingier netbook-launcher, but I lost suspend/resume. I then rebooted a few times and eventually I got suspend/resume back and no blingy n-l
[14:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: hum that's weird. I don't think this is related to the update, but hopefully, that's easy to check
[14:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: first, have a look at your GNOME session in gdm and try to do the same :)
[14:58] <LaserJock> well, I can't repeat it is the thing
[14:59] <didrocks> LaserJock: then, if it's not related, try to remove CLUTTER_VBLANK in the exec= like of /etc/xdg/xdg-une/netbook-launcher.desktop
[14:59] <didrocks> urgh
[14:59] <LaserJock> I mean, I spent a day with this blingy n-l
[14:59] <LaserJock> then mysteriously after several reboots it went away
[15:00] <didrocks> hum… that's weird, you mean that netbook-launcher is slow now?
[15:00] <LaserJock> slow? no, not at all
[15:00] <LaserJock> it just doesn't have the cool effects
[15:00] <didrocks> LaserJock: hum, that's what you called blingy. are you sure it wasn't the 2D session you were on?
[15:01] <LaserJock> I don't know, could be
[15:01] <LaserJock> it used a fair amount of CPU
[15:01] <didrocks> LaserJock: logout, and try "Ubuntu Netbook 2D"
[15:01] <LaserJock> k
[15:01] <LaserJock> brb
[15:03] <LaserJock> didrocks: yep, that was it
[15:04] <LaserJock> I thought the 2D n-l was more boring :-)
[15:04] <didrocks> LaserJock: ok, for unknown reason, it fallbacked for you to the 2D session before rebooting :)
[15:04] <LaserJock> so I guess something was weird with my kernel and I lost suspend/resume/3D
[15:04] <didrocks> yeah
[15:05] <LaserJock> alright, well, mystery solved I guess
[15:05] <LaserJock> it had some cool effects though
[15:06] <didrocks> LaserJock: the goes to the up or down? I understand better our conversation now :)
[15:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[15:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> word travels fast: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> :)
[16:55] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson: someone actually pays attention to mailing lists??? :P
[16:56] <LaserJock> mailing lists? I assume phoronix has an IRC by this point ;-)
[16:56] <LaserJock> *IRC bot
[17:29] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, chrisccoulson, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, Riddell, seb128, pitti - Team meeting time in 1 minute?
[17:29] <didrocks> hey o/
[17:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-01
[17:30] <seb128> hey
[17:30] <rickspencer3> should be quick today, I guess
[17:30] <rickspencer3> not a lot on the agenda
[17:30] <ccheney> hi :)
[17:30] <Riddell> afternoon
[17:30] <ogra> you should put a sign into #ubuntu-meeting for the community :)
[17:30] <ogra> someone is waiting for the desktop team meeting there it seems
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ooops
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ogra, can you send them here please?
[17:31] <rickspencer3> shall we start?
[17:31] <ogra> Riddell already did
[17:31] <rickspencer3> thanks ogra
[17:31] <rickspencer3> and Riddell
[17:31] <rickspencer3> Outstanding actions from last meeting
[17:31] <tremolux> heya everyone
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ACTION: chrisccoulson to investigate any chromium changes appropriate for the distro
[17:31] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[17:31] <rickspencer3> hi tremolux
[17:32]  * rickspencer3 adds tremolux to list of pingees
[17:32]  * kenvandine waves
[17:32] <tremolux> rickspencer3: :D
[17:32] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I assume that you've been way to busy for this
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> well, i've not had much chance to look at anything other than firefox over the last week ;)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> good
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I would have been worried if you had been able to make time for this :)
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I would have expected some kind of "Back to the Future" scenario :)
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> lol
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to clarify with Dx what is in scope for A2 (DONE)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to poke squinky about kubuntu.org
[17:33] <rickspencer3> I poked him, he said eow, last week
[17:33] <kenvandine> dx blueprints seem to be in order
[17:33] <Riddell> rickspencer3: I guess another poke is due
[17:33] <rickspencer3> Riddell, has it been done?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[17:33] <Riddell> not seen anything done
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:34] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to repoke previously poked squinky
[17:34] <rickspencer3> wrt kubuntu.org branding
[17:34] <rickspencer3> moving on
[17:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[17:34] <kenvandine> sure
[17:34] <kenvandine> DX team blueprints are accepted and assigned
[17:34] <kenvandine> WIs all seem to be there
[17:34] <rickspencer3> (thus the "done" from last week's action item)
[17:35] <kenvandine> and we did the first round of weekly releases
[17:35] <kenvandine> OLS still has some work on their blueprints
[17:35] <rickspencer3> nice
[17:35] <rickspencer3> urk
[17:35] <kenvandine> their's aren't accepted for a series
[17:35] <kenvandine> he is working on getting that done today
[17:35] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I can accept if needed, just PM links
[17:35] <kenvandine> so none of them show up in the burn downs
[17:35] <kenvandine> sure
[17:36] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update
[17:36] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:37] <rickspencer3> whilest he is copy and pasting: didrocks, tremolux, I think similar weekly updates on UNE and software center would be nice
[17:37] <Riddell>  * new versions of KDE 4.5, 4.4, Amarok, KOffice all in
[17:37] <Riddell>  * merges all done in main
[17:37] <Riddell>  * alpha 1 now has candidate CDs but not working especially well
[17:37] <didrocks> rickspencer3: I was just thinking about that, will do for next week :)
[17:37] <tremolux> rickspencer3: sure
[17:38] <rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks ... need any help w alpha 1 CDs?
[17:38] <Riddell> rickspencer3: don't think so, we'll sort them out
[17:38] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[17:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson ... would it be worthwhile to say a quick word on mozilla updates for stable releases?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> does it seem on track, etc...
[17:39] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, can do, although i haven't prepared ;)
[17:39] <rickspencer3> (make sure everyone is in the loop)
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> so, seb128 sent a call for testing out today
[17:39] <seb128> (seems chrisccoulson is on it)
[17:40] <seb128> ara sent the call for testing
[17:40] <seb128> I did send the announce email
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> ah, yes ;)
[17:40] <rickspencer3> is the mozilla release date public knowledge, etc...?
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> for hardy, we have firefox and all the extensions up-to-date in the PPA, and i'm currently going through the other xulrunner rdepends
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> firefox for jaunty is done
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> and we're famous: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODMwNw
[17:41] <asac> we are famous?
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> the 3.6.4 release is scheduled for monday
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> asac - well, not entirely ;)
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> but word has spread quickly
[17:41] <rickspencer3> how come when chrisccoulson says this stuff, it's work, but when phoronix republishes it, it's news
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:42] <asac> heh
[17:42] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:42] <rickspencer3> thanks for the update chrisccoulson
[17:42] <rickspencer3> and wow! thanks for all the hard work
[17:42] <asac> (oh its meeting ... /me stops)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> heh, you're welcome ;)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> micahg has put in a lot of effort too
[17:43] <rickspencer3> I think that "thanks" comes from everyone, the team, community, etc...
[17:43] <rickspencer3> thanks to micahg as well then :)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> and asac, and ara, and seb128 ;)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> seb128, release status?
[17:43] <seb128> hey
[17:43] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html
[17:44] <seb128> is the chart for alpha1
[17:44] <seb128> we are a bit behind on this one but alpha1 was rather a target of opportunity for early start
[17:44] <seb128> we are moving things to alpha2 now
[17:44] <seb128> which brings us to http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
[17:45] <seb128> the trend line is not really adjusted there (will be fixed when pitti reset it for us)
[17:45] <seb128> but we can see we are lagging a bit behind
[17:45] <seb128> we just had 2 long weekends though with holidays in europe and the uk,us
[17:45] <seb128> and people have been busy doing merges or firefox updates
[17:45] <seb128> so I guess we will catch up quickly
[17:45] <seb128> don't forget to set your items to done regularly
[17:46] <seb128> so we can track progress
[17:46] <seb128> that's it
[17:46] <tremolux> rickspencer3: btw, if you like I can paste a quickly-written software-center summary
[17:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:46] <kenvandine> seb128, my last a1 one will be done in a few minutes :)
[17:46] <rickspencer3> tremolux, that would be nice
[17:46] <tremolux> Progress on desktop-maverick-software-center-front-end (3 work items done)
[17:46] <tremolux> Bunch of bug fixes this week, and branch reviews/merged completed that fix memory leak issues, UI tweaks
[17:46] <tremolux> For desktop-maverick-opportunistic-apps-stable-release, we have a decision about a repo - will use a PPA
[17:46] <tremolux> and mvo and I have been planning the implementation based on that
[17:46] <tremolux> also, mvo has begun implementing LP login code, has a branch and will test with LP staging server
[17:47] <tremolux> I think that covers the main stuff
[17:47] <tremolux> is that what you are looking for?
[17:48] <rickspencer3> tremolux, yeah
[17:48] <rickspencer3> I am particularly interested in ensuring that we are in synch with launchpad team
[17:48] <rickspencer3> so a check in on their progress each week would be helpful
[17:48] <tremolux> rickspencer3: yep, understood
[17:49] <rickspencer3> and good news about deciding on the repo, Let the Games Begin!
[17:49] <rickspencer3> ok, so I am a bit concerned about our burndown charts, but seb128 covered that well
[17:49] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:49] <didrocks> yeah o/
[17:49] <didrocks> once you tested that firefox isn't broken for you :-) I would like to get some testing on oneconf (and not stay in a WFM state)
[17:49] <didrocks> I've made a wiki page for that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing
[17:49] <didrocks> This contain mostly all the backend (both direct action and dbus activated) and would be nice to test with your setup and report bugs about invalid applications/codec listed or missing
[17:50] <didrocks> Bonus point if you test the "diff" feature in using it in more than one host as this is the interesting part :-)
[17:50] <didrocks> Otherwise I'm pretty confident on the current state and then, oneconf is just waiting on the plugin interface to be implemented in software-center
[17:50] <rickspencer3> sounds good
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ACTION: Everyone test mozilla and oneconf
[17:51] <rickspencer3> any other other business?
[17:51] <seb128> didrocks, one small note, could you try using the DesktopTeam namespace maybe, will make easier to find it ;-)
[17:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, no
[17:51] <seb128> just a reminder that we should merge on debian
[17:51] <didrocks> seb128: sure, updating so right now (the trunk)
[17:51] <seb128> so please take some time doing your merges if you didn't yet ;-)
[17:51] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ACTION: Everyone get caught up on Debian merges
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ok, I guess that's a wrap?
[17:53]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:53] <kenvandine> fast meeting
[17:53] <kenvandine> :)
[17:53] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> 23 minutes ;)
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> oh
[17:53] <rickspencer3> uhoh
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> does anyone testing hardy find it really annoying that the buttons are on the right?
[17:54] <rickspencer3> haha
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> perhaps we should do a SRU to move them ;)
[17:54] <seb128> thanks rickspencer3
[17:54] <tremolux> chrisccoulson: ha!  yeah, I'm converted now too
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i keep moving my mouse to the left now
[17:55] <rickspencer3> I always hit alt-space to manage windows
[17:55] <rickspencer3> it's like the slowest keyboard way of doing it, but I have been doing that for years
[17:56] <seb128> what does alt-space do?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i just tried that. it seems quite awkward to do
[17:56] <seb128> pitti, did you reset the trend lines for us?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it opens the window menu
[17:56] <rickspencer3> well, I do alt-c then c, for example
[17:56] <rickspencer3> I don't actually read the menu
[17:57] <seb128> oh, right
[17:57] <pitti> seb128, rickspencer3: alpha-N trend line will reset automatically once alpha-(N-1) is released
[17:57] <seb128> ok, thanks
[17:57] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[17:58] <rickspencer3> pitti, how about what ivanka and TheDoctor are asking about in email?
[17:58] <pitti> seb128: I did that for the entire cycle, AFAIR
[17:58] <rickspencer3> about the design team work items?
[17:58] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll get to it; sorry, too much distraction today with alpha-1 stuff
[17:58] <seb128> pitti, when will it be updated?
[17:58] <rickspencer3> pitti, understood
[17:58] <seb128> pitti, this night I guess?
[17:59] <pitti>         'canonical-desktop-team': 253,
[17:59] <pitti>         ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-1'): 8,
[17:59] <pitti>         ('canonical-desktop-team', 'maverick-alpha-2'): 130,
[17:59] <pitti> that's what I committed some hours ago
[17:59] <pitti> it should be current _now_
[17:59] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html looks just fine to me
[18:00] <pitti> and the other ones match those numbers as well
[18:00] <pitti> seb128: so what's actually wrong?
[18:00] <seb128> pitti, the trend line start at 256?
[18:00] <seb128> I though the reset would give one bar
[18:01] <seb128> with the line starting today at 290
[18:01] <pitti> seb128: no, then we'd need to drop history entirely, and that affects charts from other teams as well
[18:01] <seb128> oh ok
[18:01] <pitti> next time we need to define a clear spec drafting cutoff point
[18:01] <pitti> at which we purge the entire DB
[18:01] <pitti> per-team purging messes up other charts and doesn't work
[18:01] <seb128> ok, makes sense
[18:01] <pitti> (for items that other team's members do for your's, and vice versa)
[18:02] <seb128> thanks, sorry for the noise
[18:03] <didrocks> seb128: do you have an example of redirection with moinsmoinswiki?
[18:03] <seb128> no
[18:03] <seb128> I'm not a wiki user
[18:03] <seb128> but don't bother for this one now
[18:04] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'll note for later :)
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> can anybody get liferea working in hardy before the mozilla update?
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> it just freezes here :/
[18:53] <vish> didrocks: for redirect, in the old page just add:
[18:53] <vish> #redirect NameOfNewWiki
[19:01] <didrocks> vish: thanks :)
[19:01] <vish> np. :)
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> the webkit version of epiphany feels like a downgrade from the gecko version :(
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> i can't even get my extra mouse buttons to work properly
[19:31] <seb128> right
[19:31] <seb128> not a lot we can do about that though
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it seems a bit sub-optimal for a security update though
[19:32] <seb128> it does indeed
[19:33] <seb128> there is probably not so many users on epiphany and still !lucid though
[20:55] <arand> didrocks: Since you seem to look out for metacity, are you aware of Bug #584287 (and would you mind grabbing the patch?)
[20:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 7) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584287
[21:18] <dupondje> hi guys, did somebody already check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/584287 ?
[21:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 8) (dups: 1) (heat: 60)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:36] <seb128> didrocks, ^ could you look at this one tomorrow?
[21:37] <fagan> I can confirm it too
[21:37] <seb128> dupondje, some people mentioned it before but most people are not running maverick yet or using compiz
[21:42] <arand> seb128: From my experience and the talk in ubuntu+1 I would consider it fully confirmed along with the patch by Fabien Tassin confirmed to fix it, not sure if it's the right way to fix it though..
[21:43] <seb128> arand, nobody said it was considered confirmed
[21:43] <seb128> we just have nobody who works on this sofware right now
[21:46] <dupondje> i'm checking it atm, but have to do the dishes :'(
[21:47] <rlameiro> hello everyone
[21:48] <rlameiro> how can I add a link to switch keyboard layout on 10.04?
[21:48] <seb128> rlameiro, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions
[21:48] <rlameiro> in Karmic it had that option, but in lucid its missing.
[21:49] <rlameiro> well, i asked in here because this is made by this team, if someone removed this functionality it is the desktop team
[21:49] <rlameiro> but ok i will go there...
[21:49] <seb128> no, if somebody removed this option it's the software writers
[21:50] <arand> seb128: Yea, just your comment before sounded a bit doubting :) And didrocks did do a merge not too long ago... But anyways, just making sure people are aware (since it breaks firefox)
[21:50] <seb128> arand, how is firefox broken? flashplayer or decorations?
[21:51] <dupondje> decorations
[21:51] <seb128> arand, in any case it's a different issue than the one listed before
[21:51] <dupondje> it flickers like hell
[21:51] <dupondje> unusable
[21:51] <dupondje> same for thunderbird etc
[21:51] <fagan> seb128: is rgba supposed to be on by default yet?
[21:51] <fagan> or is that coming later
[21:51] <seb128> fagan, depends of what you call on
[21:51] <seb128> the theme doesn't use it
[21:52] <fagan> seb128: ah that must be it
[21:52] <fagan> I was wondering I saw that csd was turned on but didnt get any rgba
[21:54] <arand> seb128: as long as firefox is present metacity is completely bust, cannot change focus or input, only if firefox is closed it comes back working, and one can get a terminal and --replace metcity as well...
[21:59] <dobey> hrmm
[22:01] <dobey> what does 'waiting for approval' mean for an upload for lucid-proposed?
[22:04] <geser> an archive admin has to press a button and let it through (accept it into the archive)
[22:04] <dobey> ah ok
[22:04] <geser> usually that also includes some checks like SRU ack and correct versioning
[22:05] <seb128> dobey, sru need to be reviewed by the sru team before being accepted though
[22:05] <seb128> so make sure you follow the sru rules
[22:06] <seb128> you need to subscribe the sru team and have a testcase and a debdiff to review on the bug
[22:06] <dobey> seb128: before being accepted in -proposed? or just in the main archive?
[22:06] <seb128> hum?
[22:06] <seb128> there is only one upload target for stable updates
[22:06] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand the question
[22:06] <seb128> lucid is stable, ie locked
[22:07] <seb128> nothing go to lucid now
[22:07] <dobey> right
[22:08] <dobey> maybe i'm confused about the process for sru then. but i thought fix in -proposed and it gets testing and then is approved to go to -updates
[22:08] <dobey> (or isn't approved if testing points that direction instead)
[22:09] <james_w> there's a first check as to whether it is suitable, and whether the rationale is good, there is a test case etc.
[22:09] <james_w> then there is the check as to whether it passed verification before it lands in -updates
[22:09] <seb128> dobey, you are right
[22:09] <seb128> but it's reviewed first
[22:09] <james_w> no point in testing something that won't be accepted later
[22:09] <dobey> ah, ok, right
[22:09] <dobey> sorry :)
[22:10] <seb128> no worry :-)
[22:10] <seb128> no worry :-)
[22:10] <seb128> ups
[22:10] <seb128> I should really turn touchpad off and use a mouse again there
[22:11] <dobey> heh
[22:12] <dobey> just buy a smaller laptop that doesn't have room for a touchpad :)
[22:20] <dobey> seb128: ok, most everything was done already for the bug anyway (already nominated, sru team subscribed, TEST CASE documented...), so I just attached the debdiff from my upload :)
[22:20] <dobey> seb128: bug is #571548
[22:21] <seb128> dobey, ok, so you just need to have somebody from the sru team to review now
[22:21] <dobey> yep
[22:21] <dobey> thanks
[22:42] <dupondje> ok
[22:42] <dupondje> without client side decoration patch
[22:42] <dupondje> metacity works !
[23:58] <rickspencer3> oh shuks
[23:58] <rickspencer3> 2 minutes until Eastern Edition
[23:58] <TheMuso> heh
[23:59] <RAOF> tick, tick, tick... :)
[23:59]  * rickspencer3 gets IRC log onto woki
[23:59] <rickspencer3> the wiki too
[23:59] <rickspencer3> I haven't told you guys about the woki yet
[23:59] <rickspencer3> but it will be cool, and not at all a type