=== pcapeluto_ is now known as pcapeluto
* amachu is away: Gone away for now05:35
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
=== kenvandine_ is now known as kenvandine
* NCommand1r sighs14:00
NCommand1rfreenode locked me out of my own nick :-/14:01
=== NCommand1r is now known as mcasadevall
MootBotMeeting started at 08:01. The chair is mcasadevall.14:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:01
mcasadevall[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010060114:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010060114:01
mcasadevall[topic] Roll Call14:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll Call14:01
mcasadevallSo who's here?14:01
* GrueMaster awake & accounted for.14:02
* lag is in attendance 14:02
mcasadevallogra: davidm: plars: dyfet: ping?14:02
* ogra waves14:02
ogracooloney excused himself, he will likely be late14:03
davidmplars, is not on the roll call anymore14:03
mcasadevallpersia doesn't appear to be online14:04
ogramcasadevall, vacation14:04
davidmpersia is on holiday14:04
ogradont expect him for the next three weeks14:04
* mcasadevall blinks14:04
mcasadevallJapan has a lot of holidays14:04
mcasadevall[topic] Annoucements14:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Annoucements14:05
mcasadevallFolks, activity reports please!14:05
ograthat should be under AOB :)14:05
mcasadevallogra: no one has been putting ARs on the wiki aside from myself14:05
mcasadevallIt keeps getting ignored, that's why I'm putting it at the start14:05
mcasadevallPlease make sure you post your ARs to the wiki ASAP14:06
* ogra will do so after meeting14:06
mcasadevall[topic] Action Item Review14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Item Review14:06
mcasadevall[topic] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker14:06
ograyeah, thanks for that14:06
mcasadevall[topic] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:06
mcasadevall[action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:07
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team14:07
mcasadevall[topic] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont14:07
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont14:07
mcasadevallDiscussed it briefly, no resolution as of yet.14:07
mcasadevall[topic] NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih14:07
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih14:07
ograi thought lamont proposed a resolution14:07
mcasadevallogra: did he?14:08
lamontresolution is that I need to figure out how to do per-architecture timeouts in a sane way.14:08
mcasadevallI failed to poke Keybuk so co14:08
lamontbut I'm not here right now. this is a recording.14:08
ogramcasadevall, in the log snipped i pasted lamont asked for the packages to be fixed14:08
mcasadevallogra: I must have missed it :-/14:08
mcasadevall[topic]Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times14:09
MootBotNew Topic: Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times14:09
* mcasadevall failed on this one14:09
* ogra too14:09
ograbut then i'm also happy with meeting times14:09
* mcasadevall would be happier if they were offset 12 hours but YMMV14:09
mcasadevall[topic] Standing Items14:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items14:10
mcasadevall[link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html14:10
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html14:10
mcasadevallThe bar of success looks really really low14:10
ograwe finally have all items in place14:10
ograi just asked pitti to reset it to 46 items14:11
ograthe bar will be correct in 60min14:11
ogra(next cron run(14:11
mcasadevallogra: but shouldn't it be set to 52, which is the high point where everything went in?14:11
ograwhile we have no A1 items everyone please work on their A2 items :)14:12
ogramcasadevall, who cares as long as we stay below :)14:12
mcasadevallogra: point tkaen14:12
mcasadevallOur kernel devs aren't here ATM, so I'll skip kernel status for now14:12
ogralag is here14:13
mcasadevall[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)14:13
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)14:13
mcasadevall[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)14:13
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)14:13
mcasadevall[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)14:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)14:13
GrueMasterNot a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates.14:13
ogralag, has an omap3 kernel been uploaded to the archive already ?14:13
ogralag, i thought you care for omap3 ?14:14
lagI have no idea14:14
ograor was that omap4 in 10.1014:14
ograah, k :)14:14
lagI haven't been told a thing14:14
lagApparently I have a 'panda' board coming to me14:15
ograall i know is that cooloney cares for the 10.07 kernel14:15
lagAnd I've been included in this meeting and the weekly chat with TI14:15
ograso the 10.10 work will be spread between you and mpoirier14:15
lagThat's all I know14:15
lagThanks for letting me know ;)14:15
ograwhich means an omap3 kernel built from mainline and a specially branched omap4 kernel14:16
davidmcooloney will train lag and mpoirier on what we need14:16
davidmhe will be around until they are fully up to speed14:16
lagThanks davidm14:16
* ogra also likes to announce that x-loader-omap4 and u-boot-omap4 sit in the NEW queue, if Riddell gets to it they should hit the archive today14:17
* Riddell takes the hint14:17
ogra(not exactly kernel but close :) )14:17
* ogra hugs Riddell 14:17
* mcasadevall hugs Riddell14:17
ogramcasadevall, how about movin on :)14:17
mcasadevall[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)14:18
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)14:18
GrueMasterdeja vu?14:18
GrueMasterNot a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates14:18
ogratri va vu :)14:18
mcasadevall[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:19
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)14:19
ogralooks horrid14:19
mcasadevallA lot of it is cascade from Qt4 exploding14:19
mcasadevallI've managed to determine that lzma compression + massive dbg packages == ow14:19
ogralibnih is gone ... though just because upstart failed completely now14:19
ograi guess it will return14:20
* mcasadevall knows what he's doing this week14:20
ogramcasadevall, btw, did you get my response to the livecd-roofs mail ?14:20
mcasadevallogra: yes, did you get my response to it?14:20
ograi mean the resonse to that one :)14:21
* ogra wants a last one char change 14:21
mcasadevallogra: oh, then I didn't get the response to my response of your response14:21
ogradyfet, btw, how did the MOTU think go on friday ?14:22
* mcasadevall kicks offlineimap14:22
ogracould you take on some more FTBFS issues ?14:22
mcasadevall[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:22
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)14:22
dyfetogra: I was not able to get the people I needed to sign onto the application in time14:22
ograsince mcasadevall still has some debian-cd work to do it would be good if you could take that14:22
ograi thought you said it would be friday14:23
dyfetogra: that was based on that happening14:23
mcasadevallogra: I was actually going to put most of that work on hold, we can't really touch the infrastructure during alpha 114:23
ogramcasadevall, we can prepare everything14:23
mcasadevalland then we can just focus on merging what must be merged14:23
ograi surely can merge livecd-rootfs and hold back the upload and you can work on the separate branch14:24
mcasadevallogra: works for me I guess14:24
mcasadevallI was planning on squashing FTBFS this week though14:24
ograsince i want to have jasper ready by end of the week14:24
GrueMasterAre we going to start producing images this week?14:24
ograGrueMaster, next probably14:24
ograwe're still missing some bits14:25
GrueMasterSo nothing for Alpha 1?14:25
mcasadevallogra: we're not spinning old-style OMAp3 images?14:25
GrueMasterEven the old style images?14:25
ogramcasadevall, i asked pitti to hold off on that14:25
ograsince someone would have to clean up cdimage then14:25
mcasadevallogra: fair enough14:25
ograthey gain us nothing14:25
mcasadevallogra: ah, very good point.14:25
mcasadevallSo, on the pre-installation image front14:26
mcasadevalllivecd-rootfs code has landed14:26
ogranext irc meeting we should have something14:26
mcasadevallInitial debian-cd code has landed14:26
mcasadevallnot has landed14:26
mcasadevallhas been written14:26
* mcasadevall is obviously not at full caffination14:26
ogradid you look at the publishing code yet ?14:27
ogra(i put the branch for you on the server)14:27
mcasadevallogra: no, most of my weekend was spent traveling up to Rochester14:27
ograah, k14:27
* mcasadevall is working out of a hotel today14:27
ograplease focus on that as soon as you have time14:27
mcasadevallogra: I want to get the initial review of the d-cd branch done though before I start tearing into the publishing code14:27
ograimages > ftbfs14:27
mcasadevallogra: indeed, although that list is getting very scary :-/14:28
ograas long as ubuntu-netbook for armel doesnt show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/maverick_probs.html all is fine14:28
mcasadevallAnything else we want to bring up w.r.t. to images?14:28
ograwe can do ftbfs all the time, images have to happen asap14:28
ogranothing from me14:29
mcasadevallnor me14:29
ogramove ! :)14:29
mcasadevall[topic] Any Other Business14:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business14:29
ogranothing here14:30
davidmnothing from me14:31
mcasadevallthen without further adue14:32
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:32.14:32
ograclap clap clap14:32
mcasadevall(that was a quick meeting)14:32
ograthat was fast today :)14:32
* mcasadevall fights to get his nick back14:32
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
Keybukhey all14:59
mdzKeybuk, you're chairing, right?15:00
KeybukI am15:00
Keybukjust trying to find the minutes of the previous meeting15:01
mdzKeybuk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/May2010#Technical Board15:01
mdzKeybuk, are you updating the agenda, or do you want help?15:01
KeybukI'm updating the agenda currently15:01
MootBotMeeting started at 09:02. The chair is Keybuk.15:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:02
Keybuk[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:02
Keybukthere is very little on the agenda today15:02
Keybuk[TOPIC] Action Review15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Review15:02
pittishould we add jcastro's Request for standing FFe for Chromium?15:02
KeybukI took an action to draft a mail about the sparc and ia64 ports and send to TB for approval15:02
KeybukI've done that, it's waiting on the last few TB members to comment on it15:03
Keybukcjwatson in particular, I think15:03
keesI just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.15:03
mdzKeybuk, I just added an item from the mailing list15:03
Keybuksince I've just seen kees' +115:03
mdzpitti, I did15:03
Keybukcjwatson: do you have any objections to the mail, or should I sent it on?15:03
Keybukok, timeout; I'll send it out15:04
KeybukThe other action assigned was to jcastro to talk to the GNOME release team about the schedule15:04
Keybukjcastro: how did that go?15:04
mdzI saw only +1s on the mailing list15:04
mdz(re: your mail)15:04
jcastroKeybuk: I've been on holiday, I am back today though15:05
Keybukok, we'll carry that one over15:05
Keybukthose are teh only two actions I can see15:05
Keybuk[TOPIC] Chromium standing FFe15:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Chromium standing FFe15:06
jcastroKeybuk: I am still also unclear on what exactly we need to talk to them about, we can catch up after the meeting though15:06
Keybuk[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html15:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html15:06
keesI think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.15:06
mdz<kees> I just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.15:06
mdzkees, :-)15:06
mdzkees' proposal sounds reasonable to me15:06
KeybukI agree with kees15:06
mdzwe should agree a fixed point at which to review the situation though, so it doesn't get dropped15:07
mdze.g. after 3 months, or after N SRUs or when someone screams15:07
pittisounds good15:07
pittiI think I'll just bring it back to the agenda once the SRU team gets fed up^W^Wsufficiently acquainted with chromium SRUs15:08
Keybukpitti: that sounds good15:08
keesI would arbitrary pick 3 consecutively successful SRUs, but yeah, it's mostly a "okay, we've done this enough that we don't want to look at it any more" kind of a time.15:08
pittibut even for single SRUs we need to extend the usual SRU rules15:09
pittiif that should be the SRU team's discretion, then fine15:09
keespitti: right, but that's generally been up to the SRU team.15:09
keesI'm fairly certain chromium will be fine, but I don't like setting the precedent of pre-approving a standing exception with no evidence of SRU sanity.15:11
Keybukok, sounds like there's a rough consensus here and that pitti will reapply once there's been a few SRUs15:12
pittisounds good15:12
Keybuk[TOPIC] Community Bugs15:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Community Bugs15:12
Keybukbug #58580715:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 585807 in ubuntu-community "The ubuntu-drivers team holds a confusing mix of privileges" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58580715:12
Keybukmdz: had any luck with that one?15:12
mdzKeybuk, I needed someplace to park it, because the Launchpad team can't talk to us about it yet (per jml)15:13
mdzI think the TB should triage it15:13
Keybuktriage how?15:13
mdzdecide on its priority15:13
mdzand then we can put it to the Launchpad team along with the rest of our backlog when their next iteration begins15:14
sabdflhello all, sorry to be late15:14
mdzso, how severe a problem do we feel this is today?15:14
Keybuka large part of it seems to be about spec work15:14
mdzwe've been working around it for a long time, so it doesn't seem that urgent15:14
mdzbut, it is irksome15:15
keesyeah, it's been this way for as long as I remember15:15
Keybukreading the list, an initial separation might be to separate out the bug-related pieces to ubuntu-bug-control15:15
keesI can't see it being higher than "Medium"15:15
Keybukand worry about actually splitting up the pieces later15:15
pittiI think all core devs can at least approve bug task nominations now, wich has helped a lot15:15
Keybukright, I'd live with Medium15:15
pittithis was my biggest concern so far15:15
mdzI don't think we need to decide yet how it should work (though I did a detailed writeup of that last year)15:16
mdzjust how important it is15:16
pittiapproving blueprints to releases is my next one, but the number of people who need to isn't large enough to make ubuntu-drivers membership a real problem15:16
pittiso I concur with "medium"15:16
mdzonce it makes it onto the list for LP, we can have a conversation about how to fix it15:16
mdzMedium WFM15:16
KeybukIronically, I can't actually change the status or importance15:16
Keybukmdz: you'll have to do that I guess ;-)15:16
pittiwell, it's not an Ubuntu bug, so you shouldn't be able to as non-project member15:17
mdzKeybuk, I can't either15:17
Keybukpitti: it's assigned to a team I'm a member of :)15:17
pittiI can set status, but not priority15:18
mdzis that because it's a security bug?15:18
mdzor because of the project it's filed on?15:18
pittibecause of the project, I think15:18
mdzpitti, i can't set status to Triaged15:18
keesi think because of the project15:18
mdzbut I can set the importance (and did so)15:18
pittiotherwise you could first assign to yourself, and then set everything else15:18
mdzpitti, so i fyou can set it to Triaged, we're done :-)15:18
pittimdz: I can't, just confirmed15:18
pittinot wontfix/triaged15:18
mdzgood enough I suppose15:18
mdzwe've spent too much time on it as it is15:19
mdzI've set Confirmed/Medium15:19
Keybuk[TOPIC] Other Business15:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Business15:19
Keybukany other business before we select a chair?15:19
Keybuk[TOPIC] Chair for next meeting15:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Chair for next meeting15:20
Keybukby nickname rotation (from sabdfl), it's cjwatson next, but I'm loth to select him as he's not here15:20
mdzhe only needs to be here NEXT Time15:20
Keybukmdz: making someone chair without telling them seems rude15:20
Keybukand runs the risk that he'll never know he's supposed to be15:20
mdzKeybuk, of course you should tell him15:20
mdzsometime in the next week should be sufficient15:21
Keybukcjwatson it is then15:21
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:21.15:21
mdzthanks Keybuk15:21
sabdflthanks and cheers15:21
cjwatsoneek, I'm sorry, I completely missed this on my calendar15:22
cjwatsonI was buried in trying to sort out a horrible make timestamping problem15:22
cjwatsonKeybuk: I have no objections to your mail15:22
keescjwatson: building on a filesystem that doesn't support sub-second mtime?15:22
cjwatsonkees: no, just cdbs-induced craziness with double-colon rules15:23
keesoh yikes15:23
cjwatsonKeybuk: I'm also fine with being chair15:23
Keybukk, report up and agenda cleared15:25
cjwatsonBTW I also cleared my action to write up those ancient meeting minutes last week15:31
Keybukyes, I saw15:32
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== vorian is now known as hilight
=== hilight is now known as vorian
=== vorian is now known as v
MichealHGetting Ready for Desktop Team Meeting17:26
RiddellMichealH: in #ubuntu-desktop17:31
MichealHI just watch and you know Ask ect.17:32
ograMichealH, but you should join #ubuntu-desktop to actually see the meeting ;)17:32
MichealHI know Im only here for my Membership Meeting :)17:33
ograah :)17:33
ogra(the above sounded different)17:33
drubinisn't the membership meeting only in 2 hours?17:50
andrejzno, in 3 actually ;)17:50
drubinAh maths fail :)17:51
drubinat least I have time then, awesome17:51
=== jjohansen is now known as jjohansen-afk
mpoirierJFo !17:59
mpoirieryou still on the phone ?17:59
JFompoirier, heh17:59
* smb phases in17:59
* manjo zooms in17:59
* ogasawara waves18:00
mpoirierJFo: ya, we were working, the phone rang, you left and never came back.18:00
JFoyep we will talk after this18:00
mpoirierno worries.18:00
lag |18:00
lag /\18:00
* cking here18:00
* apw notes lag missed18:00
* pgraner here 0/18:01
MootBotMeeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.18:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:01
* lag sulks18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:01
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick18:01
bjf# NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.18:01
bjf[TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)18:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)18:01
JFoRelease Meeting Bugs (0 bugs, 10 Blueprints)18:01
JFo==== Alpha 1 Milestoned Bugs (0) ====18:01
JFo * 0 linux kernel bugs ()18:01
JFo==== Release Targeted Bugs (40 across all packages) ====18:01
JFo * 5 linux kernel bugs18:01
JFo=== Milestoned Features ====18:01
JFo * 14 blueprints18:01
JFo*** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***18:01
JFo==== Bugs with Patches Attached:128 (down 2 from last week) ====18:01
JFo * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on18:01
JFo * Breakdown by status:18:01
JFo   http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/18:01
JFoplease note: I have removed the mvl, fsl and ec2 items18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:02
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)18:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor18:02
bjfNothing new this week.18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)18:03
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)18:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack18:03
manjonothing new this week18:03
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:03
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)18:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc18:03
apwThere are two outstanding items for Alpha-1, getting mainline builds to include linux-tools and progressing the -preempt pakcages.  These are both non-release tasks.  The first is likely to slip to alpha-2 now, the second is progresing but also likely to slip.18:03
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:04
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)18:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts18:04
tgardnerLTS backport kernel and meta package are in the kernel-ppa18:04
tgardnerits tracking maverick as its released.18:04
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:05
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)18:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel18:05
bjfSlow progress, more testing without success. Will have to try pv-ops on HVM drivers this week.18:05
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)18:05
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)18:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support18:06
cndkernel config is set, confirmed with upstream18:07
cndno new work other than that yet18:07
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:07
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)18:07
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review18:07
ogasawaraThere are only two work items still open for Alpha-1, both of which are not critical for Alpha-1's release.18:08
ogasawaraapw, manjo: if you don't think you'll get to those before Thurs, I'll move them under the Alpha-2 milestone.18:08
manjoogasawara, ok18:08
apwogasawara, please18:08
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)18:08
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts18:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)18:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts18:08
apwStill no testing feedback from foundations on union-mounts, there is talk of another drop occuring from upstream which will simplify the patches.  It is unclear when this new drop will occur however.18:08
apwWe also have an issue with aufs2 in maverick which is leading to aufs2 panics during boot on the live-cd.  I have an update for aufs2 which I am attempting to test to see if that fixes the issues.  It is likely we will have to update aufs2 as soon as we are on 2.6.35-rcN.  The update does appear to be good, and we are being asked to respin with aufs2 updated.  Will get patches out shortly.18:09
apwogasawara, will get with you after the meeting to coordinate18:09
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)18:09
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)18:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling18:09
JFoContinuing work on the wiki pages with input from apw, ogasawara and smb. I plan to send some e-mail out on the ongoing effort today.18:10
JFoalso, I have some prep work happening that will move several topics to INPROGRESS18:10
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:11
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart18:11
apwWe have patches pending for the remaining Alpha-1 deliverable, waiting on testing from Foundations.  These would most readily be applied post Alpha-1.18:11
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)18:12
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement18:12
ckingNothing new this week18:12
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:12
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation18:12
ckingTest for common BIOS error messages18:12
ckingAPIC edge/level trigger test18:12
ckingacpiinfo: common kernel log ACPI checks18:12
ckingCommon S3/S4 PM kernel error checks18:12
ckingS3 multiple suspend/resume cycle tests18:12
ckingS4 hibernate/resume test18:12
ckingAdd in test run order/priority18:12
ckingRework kernel log scanning + execution of some user space tools18:12
ckingRework wakealarm code into common library calls18:12
ckingAdd ability to take pre-captured input from dmidecode, /proc/acpi/dsdt and dmesg rather than at run time18:12
ckingManoj added a test from the test suite into kernel-qa dev to prove the test suite integrates in okay.18:12
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)18:13
ogasawaraWe uploaded the 2.6.34-5.12 Alpha 1 kernel last Friday.  There will be no further uploads until after Thurs.  Unfortunately the first iso's were just spun yesterday and have uncovered 2 bugs we need to be aware of (thanks apw and tgardner for already taking ownership):18:13
ogasawaraBug 58788818:13
ogasawaraBug 58789318:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 587888 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "aufs oops in au_do_open() on maverick live system boot" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58788818:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 587893 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "linux-image-2.6.34-5-virtual is oversized, results in oversized server ISO" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58789318:13
ogasawaraI should take that back, we might upload for the aufs bits18:13
ogasawaraAlso note that 2.6.35-rc1 was released so I'll be rebasing Maverick today.18:14
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:14
smbStatus unchanged from last week. Security release nearly out (probably tomorrow).18:14
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:14
JFoIncoming Bugs18:14
JFo1005 Lucid Bugs (down 129)18:14
JFo5 Maverick Bugs (up 1)18:14
JFoCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):18:14
JFo==== regression-potential ====18:14
JFo  * 5 maverick bugs (up 2)18:14
JFo  * 262 lucid bugs (down 40; to be converted to regression-release)18:15
JFo==== regression-update ====18:15
JFo  * 26 lucid bugs (up 1)18:15
JFo  * 9 karmic bugs (no change)18:15
JFo  * 5 jaunty bugs (no change)18:15
JFo  * 1 hardy bug (down 1)18:15
JFo==== regression-release ====18:15
JFo  * 146 lucid bugs (down 3)18:15
JFo  * 50 karmic bugs (no change)18:15
JFo  * 20 jaunty bugs (no change)18:15
JFo  * 3 hardy bugs (no change)18:15
JFo==== regression-proposed ====18:15
JFo  * 1 lucid bug (no change)18:15
JFo  * 1 karmic bug (no change)18:15
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:16
JFoThis week's Bug Day will be on Thursday. I plan to send out an announcement for it later today with a reminder going out tomorrow. The current plan is to review Bugs with Patches attached to eliminate misreported patches and prepare the list for team review. Additionally, i will resume our use of the 'cherry-pick' tag to identify bugs with upstream commit SHA1s in them for us to review and react accordingly. You can see the list of these from this18:16
JFo link: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=cherry-pick18:16
apwcherry-pick, is that a standard tag ?18:17
JFoit is18:17
apwcool thanks ..18:17
JFoit's one that we don't use18:17
JFobut I think it will help identify those bugs that have the SHA18:17
apwseems sensible ..18:17
JFosince they will most likely not have a patch attached18:17
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)18:18
bjfJFo, go18:18
JFojust wanted to draw your attention here http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/linux18:18
MootBotLINK received:  http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/alsa-driver18:19
bjfas well18:19
bjfapw, go18:19
apwremember we discussed the b43 driver not working, i've confirmed that18:19
apwit does not work in the current release kernel in lucid18:20
apwdma errors etc18:20
apwwith smb's latest stable 32.13 the b43 does work pretty well, and i am using it now18:20
tgardnerapw, is compat-wireless any better?18:20
apwtgardner, can't say i've tried it no18:21
tgardnerapw, just curious, it should be a superset18:21
apwbut as it will shortly work with the '-updates' kernel i guess we'll be in a good palce18:21
smbIf those changes went into 2.6.3418:21
smbBut I have not checked18:22
tgardnersmb, compat-wireless-2.6.3418:22
cndI would think they would have to be in 2.6.3418:22
cndto have been released as part of a stable updates18:22
smbtgardner, right, I understand thats based on 2.6.34?18:22
cndaccording to the rules18:22
tgardnersmb, not based, it _is_ the 2.6.34 wireless stack18:22
smbcnd, Those patches are comming from upstream18:22
bjfthanks everyone18:23
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:23.18:23
JFothanks bjf18:23
smbtgardner, Ok, so I should say it would work if the bugfixes were part of 2.6.34 (but thats quite likely)18:23
kamalthanks bjf18:25
MichealHHow long till the EMEA Member Meeting Anyone?18:33
bjfmanjo, ^18:37
BlackZMichealH: the meeting is at 20:00 UTC18:37
MichealHIs it? The Calendar syas different18:38
BlackZMichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.18:40
BlackZmaybe it's a popey's fault18:40
popeythat is entirely possible18:40
MichealHOh Well I suppose I say here after 7 just to make sure18:40
BlackZpopey: so 19:00 UTC?18:40
popey"The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC."18:41
BlackZpopey: that's what I'm saying :)18:41
BlackZ<BlackZ> MichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.18:41
popeyTue Jun  1 17:41:34 UTC 201018:41
popey^^ time now18:41
* popey hugs date -u18:41
MichealHBut my point is the callendar says different18:41
BlackZMichealH: good luck18:42
MichealHSee ya at 20:00 UTC then18:43
popeythe fridge is wrong is it?18:43
MichealHIt says"Events shown in time zone: GMT (no daylight saving)"18:43
drubinNo the callendar is correct18:43
popeyno, it isnt :)18:44
popeyit says 7pm18:44
drubinit is for me18:44
drubinmaybe you guys with your daylight savings times and stuff mess it up :)18:44
popeywhere does it say that MichealH ?18:44
popeyhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar got it18:44
MichealHat the very bottom of the schedule18:45
drubinno ways it said 20:00 (utc+2) for me a while ago18:45
MichealHI remember seeing it as 9pm my time now its 8pm?18:45
BlackZMichealH: hint: fix your nick in the table18:45
drubinpopey: surely no one actually updated the calendar.. and even more so to make it wrong18:45
popeyi have just aked for it to be changed18:46
MichealHChange to 8pm-9pm18:46
drubinpopey: So is the meeting at 20:00 or at 19:0018:46
popeyits 20:00 UTC!18:46
popeyas per the wiki page :)18:46
MichealH21:00 BST!18:46
drubinJust making sure all this confusion  is confusing18:46
popeyconfusing popey is confusing18:46
MichealHNo its Confusing of Confusing of Confusing18:47
drubingoes to find some dinner and sort out loco stuff before the meeting18:47
* MichealH makes notes 0.5x the speed18:47
MichealHNo need to rush now :)18:47
MichealHdrubin You applied?18:48
MichealHpopey: Is it ok to point to my website for my memebrship stuff too.18:49
drubinMichealH: yes18:49
popeywe prefer personal wiki pages18:50
drubinMichealH: No I am on the board18:50
popeywhich link to launchpad, forums, etc18:50
drubinpopey: He said as well.18:50
MichealHI have both :D Well Prepared18:50
popeybut links to other sites that backup your membership are good too18:50
popeydrubin: i can read :)18:50
MichealHWhen do we find out who got in?18:50
popeyyou attend and we generally tell you there and then18:51
MichealHSo if you all said +1 for example then I may be in18:51
* MichealH makes notes better.18:52
MichealHdrubin: Who else is on the board?18:53
drubinMichealH: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-emea/+members18:53
MichealHIs it Ubuntu Members get selected to be on the board?18:54
MichealHpopey: I see where you nick comes from ;)18:55
popeyDont mention spinach18:55
MichealHWhy would I mention spinach Im responsable18:56
MichealHI have some good comments on my PM's if I put them In my Wiki/Site would they be considered?18:57
drubinpopey: Is that list on the wiki still valid? like people from 24th of march18:59
MichealHI think tey are looking at the logs I have seen they were unsuccesful18:59
popeydrubin we should leave, other meeting starting19:00
MichealHpopey hows about ubuntu-offtopic? ;)19:00
ttxpopey: you can stay if you want :)19:00
popeydrubin: MichealH join #ubuntu-emea-board19:00
jiboumansgood morning19:01
MootBotMeeting started at 13:02. The chair is jiboumans.19:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:02
jiboumansthanks all for joining19:02
ttxniemeyer: o/19:02
jiboumansscribe today will be ttx, thanks for volunteering19:02
ttxyay yay19:02
jiboumansexperiencing a bit of lag with irc, sorry for the delay19:03
jiboumans[TOPIC] Action points from the last meeting19:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Action points from the last meeting19:03
jiboumanssommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs19:04
sommerdone :)19:04
jiboumansawesome :)19:04
jiboumansttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names19:04
ttxdone on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase19:04
jiboumansno other actions outstanding afaik19:04
jiboumans[TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)19:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Maverick development (jib)19:05
jiboumansas you all know, we've just kicked off the maverick dev cycle19:05
halvorsWhen was the meeting today?19:05
jiboumansand we've got alpha1 isos coming up19:05
mathiazhalvors: are you referring to the EMEA board meeting?19:05
jiboumansttx, that's your topic i believe19:05
mathiazhalvors: if so - it was 2 hours ago19:05
ttxyes, we have deliverables up at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all19:05
mathiazhalvors: this is now the Ubuntu Server team meeting19:06
ttxI smoketested yesterdays ISO, it seems to work, filed a bug that got fixed since19:06
halvorsthe africa/europe meeting19:06
halvors20:00 UTC19:06
ttxthe main issue being the oversized CDs, will come back to that later19:06
halvorsit was 2 hours ago ?19:06
ttxso please run some ISO testing coverage19:06
Davieyhalvors: 20:00 UTC is in 2 hours.19:06
ttxsmoser: we don't havce cloud images yet19:07
halvorsthen it is 10:0019:07
jiboumans[ACTION] all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha119:07
smoserew don't ?19:07
halvorsfor me19:07
MootBotACTION received:  all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha119:07
ttxsmoser: not on the tracker, at least19:07
mathiazhalvors: may be - we're in the middle of another meeting now - I'd suggest to come back when the meeting board is running19:07
jiboumans[ACTION] smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker19:07
MootBotACTION received:  smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker19:07
ttxwe don't need 100% coverage for alphaµ1, but the more the merrier19:07
ttxthat's all.19:08
jiboumans[TOPIC] Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)19:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)19:08
ttx(we are in soft freeze btw, so don't land anything massive)19:08
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html19:08
mathiazttx: are the images registered in the iso tracker?19:08
mathiazttx: alpha1 images?19:08
ttxmathiaz: define "images"19:08
mathiazttx: hm - isos19:09
ttxmathiaz: yes19:09
ttxUbuntu Server amd64 (20100601.1)19:09
ttxUbuntu Server i386 (20100601.1)19:09
mathiazttx: hm - I haven't received the standard email though19:09
jiboumansthe above link is 'the' place where we track progress on our specs, so please remember to keep your work items and Status: line updated in the blueprints. For the howto, please see:19:09
ttxmathiaz: me neither19:09
jiboumans[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto19:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto19:09
ttxPlease also update status for your specs, ideally before the meeting19:10
mathiazttx: that should be fixed19:10
mathiazttx: as this is how I get notified about new isos needed testing19:10
ttxmathiaz: ping ara about it, maybe it's a one-time alpha1 special19:10
ttxStatus updating is done by updating the "Status" section in the whiteboard19:10
ttxI've set it to "Not updated yet" across the board19:10
jiboumanssame procedure as lucid, so nothing new to learn here19:11
* SpamapS just realized that meant the Status: for the work itesm tracker, and not the blueprint status.. :-P19:11
jiboumansremember to keep it updated; MONDAY EOB at the latest19:11
ttxSpamapS: I was reiterating for you :)19:11
jiboumansttx: any particular specs that need attention right now?19:11
ttxjiboumans: server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades19:12
SpamapSttx: ty19:12
ttxneeds some work separation between smoser and jjohansen19:12
ttxand a more detailed work items plan19:12
jiboumansttx: jjohansen is on vacation this week, so we should follow up by email as well19:12
ttxjiboumans: yep19:12
jiboumanssmoser, can you take that on?19:12
ttxotherwise none of the prio1 specs have work items burnt yet19:12
smoseri pinged with jjohansen today. he's aware of the spec.  i will follow up.19:13
jiboumans[ACTION] smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades19:13
jiboumansttx: any others?19:13
MootBotACTION received:  smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades19:13
ttxno, let's get items burnt !19:13
ttx(as an aside, i'll reset the trends line tomorrow)19:13
jiboumansok, i'd like to look at 4 specs quickly though;19:13
ttx(so please get your work items in before :)19:13
jiboumansivoks, roaksoax, scottk: mail & cluster stack look in great shape. I've asked in the whiteboard to seperate items out for before & after feature freeze though to help us track things19:14
jiboumanssommer, ttx, mathiaz: i wanted to double check you're happy with the docs spec as is now19:15
jiboumansthe review's extensive with feedback requests and it'd be great if we could mark those off19:15
sommerI think I addressed the comments on that one, but if not let me know19:15
jiboumanssommer: it looks good to me too, just verifying before i set it to 'approved'19:15
ttxjiboumans: also note that the specs fully assigned to hggdh don't appear in the chart19:16
ttxsince they appear in canonical-qa instead19:16
jiboumansttx: let's follow up with pitti to figure out how we can have them show up19:16
jiboumansalright, let's move on19:16
jiboumans[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)19:17
mathiazserver-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me19:17
ttxstgraber: haven't seen a spice spec, mjeanson wanted to file one ?19:17
hggdhbug 565101 has been verified, should go to -updates as soon as possible19:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 565101 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] walrus reports java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56510119:17
ttxserver-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me19:17
jiboumanssommer: you may need to reformat the 'work items:' line as it expects a milestone after it if anything19:17
sommerah, will do19:18
hggdhadditionally, I have done a quick test of bug 586134, and seems to work with 512 loop devices configured19:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 586134 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "SC: Maximum number of loop devices should be configurable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58613419:19
jiboumanshggdh: the previous number was... 256?19:19
hggdhjiboumans: the previous was 3219:19
jiboumansany other questions for hggdh/QA?19:20
kirklandhggdh: i'll get an SRU out, as soon as the current one in proposed (for 6 weeks) gets promoted19:20
ttxhggdh: haven't looked into the -community and -qa-workflow specs, did you start with them ?19:20
mathiazkirkland: what's required to get the one in -proposed copied to -updates?19:21
jiboumanshggdh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-qa-workflow should probably have it's gobby notes moved to a wikispec instead19:21
kirklandhggdh: i think you had a todo of verifying one of them as fixed, so that the promotion could take place19:21
kirklandmathiaz: These bugs need to be fix-verified:19:21
hggdhkirkland: I verified it, should I change a tag there?19:21
ubottuUbuntu bug 565101 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] walrus reports java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space" [High,Fix committed]19:21
ubottuUbuntu bug 567371 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] NC does not detach created pthreads in KVM driver" [High,Fix committed]19:21
ubottuUbuntu bug 566793 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] euca-get-console-output gives first 64k of output, not most recent" [Medium,Fix committed]19:21
kirklandhggdh: i stand corrected ... you updated the bug on May 2819:22
mathiazhggdh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates19:22
mathiazhggdh: ^^ there is a section about verification19:22
hggdhmathiaz: thanks19:22
mathiazhggdh: once the verification has been done, tags should be updated19:22
smoserkirkland, 566793 is either not "fixed" or caused regression.19:22
smosersee most recent comments there.19:23
kirklandsmoser: that's very troubling19:23
Davieybug #56679319:23
kirklandsmoser: i see your comment there19:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 566793 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] euca-get-console-output gives first 64k of output, not most recent" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56679319:23
kirklandthis is getting complicated, as we have several more eucalyptus SRUs queued19:24
kirklandjiboumans: i'm not sure what else to say about this19:25
jiboumanskirkland: should we move this to a different forum?19:25
kirklandjiboumans: sure19:25
jiboumanskirkland: alright, let's move on19:25
jiboumans[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)19:26
jiboumansjjohansen is not with us today, so any questions will be relayed through notes/email19:26
ttx(from jjohansen) No progress on pv-ops yet due to vacation19:26
jiboumansanything pressing that needs to be on the kernel teams radar?19:26
ttxI raised bug 58789319:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 587893 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "linux-image-2.6.34-5-virtual is oversized, results in oversized server ISO" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58789319:26
ttx-virtual takes up the same size as -server now19:26
SpamapSjiboumans: the recent ptrace restrictions are troubling to me..19:26
ttxresulting in an oversized server ISO19:26
jiboumansSpamapS: could you elaborate?19:27
ttxit's on the kernel team radar, rtg is looking at it19:27
SpamapSjiboumans: from an ops standpoint, not being able to attach to mysqld/httpd/etc would be disastrous19:27
jiboumansSpamapS: i wasn't aware of any changes in that area. what are you referring to exactly?19:27
ttxMy understanding is atht it's just a sysctl away ?19:27
SpamapSjiboumans: it was relayed to ubuntu-devel recently, processes won't be able to ptrace anything that isn't their direct child19:28
SpamapSjiboumans: there will be a sysctl, yes19:28
ttxSpamapS: you should bring your concerns to the thread19:29
SpamapS+1 for security, -10 for operational efficiency. I'm not sure if its worth being on by default.19:29
jiboumansSpamapS: if there's no way to debug properly in your opinoin with this change, we should take it up on the list19:29
mathiazSpamapS: if you have any concerns, make sure to let it be known in the thread19:29
SpamapSyes I think I'll do that.19:29
jiboumansSpamapS: consider this encouragement to do exactly that :)19:29
ttxdiscussing them here won't help very much, it's outside the reach of our team anyway19:29
jiboumansany other questions/issues around the kernel?19:29
ttxSpamapS: we could agree to unset it on "servers" but I'm not sure I want to have that discussion again19:30
jiboumans[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)19:30
jiboumanssommer: o/19:30
sommernot sure I have much... Lucid serverguide PDF is available on h.u.c19:31
ttxsommer: could you present new sections for which you'll need input from us at some point ?19:31
jiboumanssommer: if you don't have 'm prepped, adding them to next weeks meeting also works. I'd like to make sure you have all the input you need to move forward19:31
sommersure, that may be a good goal for the next meeting19:32
ttxsommer: great, thanks19:32
jiboumans[ACTION] sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team19:32
MootBotACTION received:  sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team19:32
jiboumansthanks sommer19:32
jiboumansany questions about the docs?19:33
sommerdon't think so19:33
jiboumans[TOPIC] Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)19:33
MootBotNew Topic:  Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)19:33
ttxNomination period for alpha2 subcycle is not over19:33
ttxThe nominations for the papercuts alpha2 subcycle are here: http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations19:33
ttxWe had a target of 16 bugs for that cycle19:33
ttxonly 14 bugs nominated19:34
ttxso that should make an easy cut19:34
ttxYou still have time for last minute nominations...19:34
ttxPlease have a look at the list off-meeting and let me know if anything there should not be a papercut19:34
ttxotherwise I'll take them all :)19:35
ttxYou can also assign yourself to those you're interested in19:35
jiboumans[ACTION] all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts19:35
MootBotACTION received:  all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts19:35
ttxafter that, I'll start randomly assigning them to people :)19:35
jiboumans[TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)19:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)19:35
jiboumansthanks ttx19:35
mathiaztwo bugs have been nominated: bug 58511019:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 585110 in vm-builder (Ubuntu) "vmbuilder 0.11.3 fails to find ec2-init file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58511019:36
mathiazbug 58552219:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 585522 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Somes bad var values and old name calling in lucid" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58552219:36
ttx(note: i'll close the alpha2-papercuts list tomorrow morning, so nominations should be done today EOB)19:36
jiboumansttx: can you send out a last call to the mailing list too?19:37
ttxjiboumans: I think it's too late for that. A call with the deadline was in yesterdays ubuntu weekly news19:37
mathiazI think both bugs should be declined as they fit the SRU critiria19:37
hggdhmathiaz: I think 585522 should not be nominated19:37
ttxtheoretically the deadline was... this meeting19:37
jiboumansttx: that works too :)19:38
ttxsince we are not as 14, I give a few extra minutes to the meeting crowd :)19:38
ttxnot at 16, I mean19:38
ttxmathiaz: ack19:38
mathiazanything worth on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html?19:39
zulthe mtx bug19:39
ttxbug 551901 is already under way, I pushed it today19:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551901 in krb5 (Ubuntu Lucid) "likewise-open fails to join Windows 2000 SP4 domain" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55190119:39
mathiazzul: for an SRU?19:39
zulmathiaz: yes19:40
mathiazzul: it's annoying - not the end of the world19:40
ttxI'm with mathiaz here19:40
ttxzul: there are far more interesting SRUs to push :)19:41
zulttx: heh19:41
mathiazanything else worth SRUing?19:41
SpamapSbug 293258 seems worth SRU given that it may have security implications.19:41
mathiazfrom http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html19:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 293258 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "mysql user has home directory writable by mysqld" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29325819:41
zulSpamapS: i dont know the implications of pushing that back to lucid19:41
mathiazSpamapS: if it has security implication than the security team should handle it19:41
kirklandmathiaz: there are 2 eucalyptus bugs19:41
kirklandmathiaz: as mentioned before, sort of blocked on getting the lucid-proposed eucalyptus promoted to lucid-updates19:42
ttxkirkland: I suspect you already nominated them for Lucid ?19:42
kirklandttx: yup19:42
ttxkirkland: then you're good :)19:42
mathiazSpamapS: the security team seems to be aware of the bug19:42
mathiazon the topic of the sru process, zul has been working on the implementation19:43
SpamapSmmk. :)19:43
jiboumansmathiaz, zul, anything to show publicly yet?19:43
mathiazso I think we'll be able to move to the new process soon19:43
zulsure: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/19:44
mathiazjiboumans: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/19:44
ttxmathiaz/zul: would be good to see some action on the work items for sru-process, then :P19:44
jiboumans[LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/19:44
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/19:44
jiboumansalso that: ^ ;)19:44
zulttx: yeah sorry19:44
mathiazzul: are your scripts available in a bzr branch somewhere?19:44
zulmathiaz: not yet they will be19:44
mathiazzul: ok - could you please push them as soon as possible?19:45
mathiazzul: release early, release often :)19:45
zulof course19:45
mathiazthat's all for the SRU review19:45
jiboumans[TOPIC] Open Discussion19:45
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion19:45
jiboumansany other business?19:45
sommerthis spec https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-openldap-dit approval ?19:46
hggdhI have tested ebs with EtienneG's UEC rig, but we will need our own19:46
Davieyhggdh: we might be able to organise timeshare in OEM's rig.19:47
mathiazsommer: you don't need to have approval to start working on a spec ;)19:47
mathiazsommer: the WI look good19:47
hggdhDaviey: good. We will have to be careful, though, I just blew EtienneG's rig to space19:47
jiboumanssommer: i think you took care of the feedback, so let me hit the Button(tm)19:47
jiboumansbut yes,it's approved19:47
sommermathiaz: I know, but just wanted to get some time of official nod19:47
EtienneGzul, has the iSCSI target question came up earlier?  (sorry, was not paying much attention)19:47
Davieygilir: destruction testing++19:47
zulEtienneG: no it hasnt19:48
EtienneGhggdh, good to know!19:48
sommerjiboumans: thanks :)19:48
mathiazsommer: seems like jiboumans is about to hit the magic button!19:48
hggdhEtienneG: oh, sorry, I did not tell you? ;-)19:48
EtienneGzul, ok then, I am bringing it up then19:48
zulEtienneG: now would be a good time to bring it up ;)19:48
EtienneGhggdh, well, yes, over the week-end, right?19:48
jiboumanssommer: you're the assignee as well right?19:48
hggdhEtienneG: right19:49
jiboumanssommer: targeted for A3 as it needs to be done before Feature Freeze19:49
EtienneGjiboumans, I vaguely remember the matter iSCSI target came up during the seed review at UDS-M, but somehow it is nowhere to be found in the Gobby doc19:49
EtienneGbasically, we discussed if an iSCSI target in main would be desirable, and which19:50
ccheneythere were some problems with gobby notes being lost, i don't know if that included partial loss though19:50
jiboumansEtienneG: i remember the thread on the mailing list19:50
EtienneGthe consensus seems to be around tgt, which has an iSCSI target daemon19:50
mathiazEtienneG: do you have a specific suggestion?19:50
EtienneGjiboumans, was it discussed at UDS, or I am smoking crack?19:50
mathiazEtienneG: is tgt the best option for now?19:50
EtienneGmathiaz, tgt would be the best option for me, yes19:51
jiboumansEtienneG: like i said, i dont remember it at UDS (then again, i wasnt in all conversations), but i do recall the thread on the list19:51
zulEtienneG: i remeber talking to you about it after the session19:51
EtienneGpeople suggested SCST, but it is not packaged yet19:51
jiboumansEtienneG: the part i do remember is Eucalytpus folks saying they need one as well19:51
ttxistr we discussed it during euca-next-steps19:51
kirklandmathiaz: EtienneG: tgt is what we're pursuing for UEC/Eucalyptus19:51
EtienneGzul, that must be it19:51
EtienneGjiboumans, and unless I am mistaken, they have settled on tgt19:51
jiboumanskirkland: is it a fair target for the UEC specs or should this go Elsewhere19:51
kirklandjiboumans: UEC is probably fine19:52
kirklandjiboumans: i'll add a work item19:52
jiboumanskirkland++ thanks19:52
kirkland[ccheney] MIR tgt: TODO19:52
ccheneykirkland, ok :)19:52
jiboumansok, any other other business?19:52
EtienneGtgt needs an upstart job, there is already bug and I assigned it to zul19:52
jiboumans[TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time19:53
jiboumansNext meeting is: Tuesday June 8th at 18:00 UTC19:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time19:53
jiboumansthanks all for attending19:53
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:53.19:53
* EtienneG high five19:53
mathiazEtienneG: o^3419:53
EtienneGmathiaz, you'll have to explain that one ...19:54
mathiazEtienneG: o^5 : high - five19:54
legreffierhello here :)20:28
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
HardDisktell me the meeting is not over :/20:36
HardDiskEMEA membership that is...20:36
BlackZHardDisk: it will start at 20:00 UTC20:37
HardDiskah good20:37
HardDiskcause im in cairo, and just got back :)20:37
HardDiskif I missed it, that'd be the 2nd time I miss it.20:38
andrejzit starts in 20 minutes, I am waiting for it too ;)20:38
HardDiskwell andrejz good luck to you.20:38
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
andrejzthanks, good luck to you too20:39
halvorsyes, i will become member so please support me with votes ;)20:40
MichealHhalvors, Like your determination20:41
HardDiskI will def become a member due to all the efforts made this year.20:41
MichealHDice-Man, Hi20:42
Dice-Mandoes everybody here can vote ?20:42
MichealHHardDisk, Good Luck20:42
MichealHDice-Man, No only the Board people?20:42
HardDiskthanks, but don't need it :)20:42
MichealHI dont either HardDisk20:42
HardDiskI'm that confident.20:42
MichealHso am I!20:42
halvorsyes i think20:43
legreffierBlackZ: agenda says 21utc20:44
legreffierdid i got it wrong?20:44
BlackZit's another meeting20:44
drubinlegreffier: they are talking about the EMEA ubuntu membership board meeting20:44
legreffieroh my bad then20:44
HardDiskyes you're very bad then :)20:45
legreffierHardDisk: just to tell you once again who's bad.20:45
MichealH.action Thanks his iPod for remininng mo of this meeting20:46
MichealHArgh Me Extension20:46
MichealHIt keeps shorting20:47
MichealHHi McPeter20:47
MichealHYou here for the EMEA Meeting?20:47
McPeterto support legreffier :)20:48
MichealHYay \o/ Support me ;)20:48
* legreffier hugs McPeter 20:48
MichealHIm more imortant20:48
legreffierand MichealH too.20:48
HardDiskI msgd some people to support me, guess Im on my own today.20:48
MichealHI am too HardDisk I asked VBroummond but seems he not here20:49
MichealHNightwiashfan on the forums20:49
MichealHGot a few testimonials You?20:49
MichealHJust signed in on me iPod :) Just to keep up Yay20:50
Dice-ManmichealH the Board people ?20:51
Dice-Manwas a joke ?20:51
MichealH_Board people?20:51
MichealHDice-Man, Im MichealH_20:51
MichealHJust om me mobile device :)20:52
MichealHDice-Man, czajkowski is a board person Is that what u were talking bout20:52
Dice-Manwhat is a board person ?20:53
Dice-Manyou mean staffer ?20:53
MichealHThey sort of control the meeting20:53
MichealHThey are the Simnon cowells of this channel20:53
MichealHThey judge us20:53
HardDisklet me go to the bathroom real quick :)20:53
MichealHMe too Plz Plzzzzz!20:54
MichealHI will be real quick20:54
Dice-Manok MichealH thanks20:54
highvoltageEMEA Regional Board meeting in about 5 minutes20:55
MichealH_6mijs and counting20:55
MichealH_what is it about touchscreens?20:56
MichealH_Hi Sind20:56
MichealH_3 mins oh the pressure :S20:57
SeveazMichealH_: during the meeting, please do not stray off topic20:58
MichealH_I agree20:58
HardDiskhi Seveaz, I'm here this time :)20:58
HardDiskand fully prepared.20:58
MichealHI seveaz Rawr20:59
MichealH_We waiting for popey?20:59
Seveazpopey, czajkowski, highvoltage, ogra, stgraber, drubin: it is time.20:59
MichealH_Nice way to call people20:59
highvoltagethis is our first meeting as the new new board right?21:00
Seveazit is21:00
drubinhighvoltage: yes21:00
czajkowskiaye :)21:00
Seveazhmm, webchat doesn't show idle time21:01
Seveazcan someone please check idle time on ogra/stgraber?21:01
MichealHI will21:01
andrejzhello everyone!21:01
highvoltageSeveaz: stgraber is out of the office today, so I guess he won't be able to make it21:01
czajkowskiogra: is idle 7mins21:02
highvoltage(we should exchange new phone numbers afterwards again for sms purposes)21:02
Seveazgood plan.21:02
MichealHstgraber, 144 hours21:02
ogra_cmpcczajkowski, nah, i'm hiding here :)21:02
Seveazok, let's begin21:03
czajkowskiogra_cmpc: *mutters* :p21:03
Seveazmichaelh: please keep chatter to a minimum21:03
HardDiskI'm ready to go first if no one minds.21:03
SeveazI don't know whether the new board members are familiar with the structure of the meetings21:03
halvorsshould we start the meeting=21:04
drubinczajkowski: thanks for cleaning up the wiki, and on that point I think we should ask some one todo it straight after this meeting to make it easier21:04
MichealHI will go next21:04
SeveazHardDisk: please wait.21:04
popeyWe go in order of that page21:04
Seveazso for all new board members: we essentially go through that list in order and make people introduce themselves21:04
ogra_cmpcSeveas, not with the current structure, its been a few years i did that last :)21:04
Seveazthen we read wikipage/launchpad page/other "evidence" and vote21:04
highvoltageogra_cmpc: it hasn't changed much21:04
Seveazogra, it's pretty similar to CC :)21:04
Seveazso, let's begin with candidate no. 1: ronnietucker21:05
SeveazRonnie, please introduce yourself21:05
MichealHRonnie Idletime: 1 hour?21:05
ronnietuckerHi! I'm Ronnie Tucker the editor of Full Circle magazine which has been running for over three years now21:05
SeveazMichealH: sst.21:05
Seveazronnietucker: you've been here a few months ago as well, have you?21:06
popeyhe missed the last meeting iirc Seveaz21:06
* ogra_cmpc is impressed by that wikipage21:06
czajkowskiwow nice set of testimonials.21:06
highvoltageyes, he was on the agenda for the lastmeeting but couldn't make it21:06
czajkowskiI beleive that was the issue the last time, ther weren't any21:07
Seveazyes, I recall that as well21:07
Seveazthat's evidently been fixed21:07
highvoltageIt's an interesting case since his work wasn't in Ubuntu itself, but imho he's clearly been representing the Ubuntu community and doing great work at promoting it and spreading knowledge over the past few years21:07
popeyindeed, I've been watching and reading fullcircle over the years, and ronnietucker has steered that ship well in that time21:08
highvoltageronnietucker: do you have any future plans or other areas that you plan to work on some day?21:08
halvorsShould we vote for RonnieTrucker or?21:08
Seveazhalvors: only board members vote.21:08
halvorsyes i know21:09
ronnietuckerI intend to continually refine Full Circle to make it better each and every month21:09
MichealHSeveaz, Can we ask questions?21:09
popeyronnietucker: there's also the full circle podcast now to compliment the magazine21:09
highvoltageMichealH: board members can ask questions now, basically you can contribute input if you know ronnietucker, otherwise you should just remain quiet until it's your turn21:09
MichealHhighvoltage, Ok21:10
HardDiskronnietucker, if you stick around for my part, I actually have a part written that talks about you.21:10
ronnietuckeruh oh ;)21:10
HardDisktrust me it's good :)21:10
drubinronnietucker: Any plans to be more involved with your loco?21:11
SeveazOk, I'm +1. Full Circle is a good contribution to the ubuntu community21:11
highvoltagealso +121:11
drubinEither way +1 from my side21:11
czajkowski+1 also based on the promotion of Ubuntu21:11
popeyyeah, I'm easily +1, it's been consistent over the years.21:11
ogra_cmpca clear +1 from here too21:11
Seveazneed to get used to the new team, have we all voted?21:12
HardDiskcongratulations :)21:12
ogra_cmpcSeveas, even if we didnt, thats surely a vast majority :)21:12
Seveazyes, we all voted21:12
ronnietuckerThank you all!21:13
popeyadding to ubuntumembers21:13
Seveazcongrats ronnietucker!21:13
czajkowskironnietucker: congrats and welcome :)21:13
highvoltageronnietucker: congratulations and welcom21:13
czajkowskiSeveaz: next time can we use MootBot :) please21:13
ogra_cmpccongrats and thanks for all that work :)21:13
drubinronnietucker: welcome aboard21:13
vishSeveaz: probably the bot and voting would be easier to keep track21:13
* czajkowski is editing the wiki atm 21:13
legreffiercongrats and one pound shoeslaces to you ronnietucker21:13
halvorscongratulations ronnie ;)21:13
MichealHronnietucker, Well Done!21:13
McPetercongrats ronnietucker21:13
Seveazczajkowski: if mootbot allows us to restrict votes to the team: why not21:13
popeycongrats ronnietucker21:13
* popey notes czajkowski voting to chair the next meeting :)21:13
HardDiskmabrook ronnie21:13
Seveaznext up: halvors. Please iintroduce yourself to the board21:13
czajkowskipopey: shhhhh I'm new :p21:14
Seveazpopey: I'd +1 that :)21:14
* ogra_cmpc grins21:14
czajkowskihalvors: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors21:14
czajkowskiogra_cmpc: you're next buddy!21:14
halvorsI am halovrs, from Norway, i work for The OpenRcon Project, and transelate Ubuntu into my countrys language ;)21:14
halvorsAnd my wiki site: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors ;)21:15
halvorsoh sorry...21:15
czajkowskihalvors: your wiki is very bare21:15
halvorsi know sorry :(21:15
SeveazI'm going for instant -1 because there is nothing to go on on that wikipage. halvors please make sure your wikipage is prepared before the meeting so we can actually verify your contributions.21:15
czajkowskihalvors: you dont have any testimonials, nor any information on the work  you['ve done or plan to do, so I'm sorry it's going to be a -121:15
highvoltage-1 [ incomplete proposal and insufficient evidence of any sustained contributions ]21:16
popeyI agree with Seveaz, -1, we need detail on the wiki page which outlines your contributions to the project.21:16
drubinI am also going for a -1 for now.21:16
highvoltagehalvors: please refer to the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership21:16
ogra_cmpcyour work sounds intresting but you need to put it into a rather bigger presentation for next meeting21:16
halvorsOk, i know the Ubuntu community dont need me :(21:16
Seveazhalvors: that's not true at all21:16
ogra_cmpchalvors, thats not true21:17
drubinhalvors: We are just postoning membership right now. We value every ones contributions21:17
czajkowskihalvors: not at all, if you need a hand with your wiki creation give me a shout and I'll help you21:17
Seveaztranslation work is more than welcome, and you have some karma there so you do work. However, it is difficult for us to verify your work if you don't document it and collect testimonials from others21:17
halvorsi have been here before, last meeting at Asia board i got the same reply :(21:17
ogra_cmpchalvors, its just that we need to judge based on these wikipages, i find you very intresting and would really appreciate if you came back next time with a bit more fleshed out wiki21:17
highvoltagehalvors: our job is to review your application for membership, that's quite hard to do without an application21:17
czajkowskihalvors: after the meeting would you like a hand ?21:17
halvorsso what should i have in the wiki?21:18
halvorswork, etc21:18
popeyhalvors: czajkowski will help after the meeting21:18
halvorswhat more?21:18
czajkowskihalvors: after the meeting please21:18
Seveazhalvors: sorry, we have to continue the meeting now, please talk to czajkowski afterwards21:18
Seveazandrejz: you're up21:18
andrejzi am andrej from slovenia, my wiki is here21:19
halvorsSorry, but i am some busy, but maybe we can talk here tomorow?21:19
halvorsi understand :)21:19
czajkowskiandrejz: is there anyone in here to support you today ?21:19
halvorsSe you tomorrow :)21:19
andrejzas you can see i am mostly involved in translation into slovenian language, where i am one of the core members of gnome translation team,21:19
Seveazthat's an impressive amount of translations21:20
czajkowskihalvors: see pm21:20
Seveazare you leading the ubuntu slovenian translators team?21:20
andrejzno, i am on my own, but statistics says a lot, i believe21:20
MichealH2 tick I need to sign out me lag is terrible21:20
andrejzwell, we are in the phase of transition21:20
* popey hugs chrome auto-translate from slovenian to english21:20
Seveazandrejz: what kind of transition?21:21
andrejzthe previos leader is slowly stepping down and i am replacing him21:21
andrejzbut there wasn't really any team before21:21
Seveazandrejz: that's an interesting phase.21:21
andrejzof course people were members of the group, but there wasn't any communication between team members, or any organization21:22
czajkowskiandrejz: so what do you see in the future for your LoCo ?21:22
andrejzor at least organized communication - of course i contacted a translator which was translating the same package as me, but nothing was organized21:22
andrejzwell, there are a couple of people there, which are attempting to get an official LoCo set up21:23
andrejzand i am helping out a little bit with ideas on IRC21:23
Seveazandrejz: I like the work you're doing, but I'm going for -1. I'd like some comments on your wikipage from other members of your locoteam, other than that it looks good21:23
andrejzi write linux/opensource/ubuntu news to educate the people who visit the loco site21:23
highvoltageI like the work that andrejz is doing21:23
ogra_cmpcor at least someone speaking up for you here would be nice21:23
Seveazespecially as your locoteam is changing, comments from others are a good indication of your work21:23
highvoltageit's good work but I think we need to see more of it, +021:24
popeythats a significant chunk of work done there21:24
ogra_cmpci'm with Seveas here, the work looks great but a testemonial would help21:24
ogra_cmpc+/-0 from here21:24
czajkowskiandrejz: I'm going to go +0 as I'd like to see some testominals21:24
drubin+0 from my side. same as highvoltage, I would love to see peoples comments21:24
Seveazhighvoltage: I don't think quantity is a problem, but the quality is a bit hard to judge without some testimonials21:24
highvoltageSeveaz: yep21:25
popeyyeah I'm gonna go +0 here too. I'd love to see you come back with an update wiki page next month!21:25
andrejzwell, i am mostly concentrating on the translation part, since i don't have time to be involved directly in the events and so forth21:25
Seveazandrejz: if you can collect some comments/testimonials on your wikipage and come back next meeting, then you'll be approved in no time21:25
czajkowskiandrejz: I'm sure folks on the gnome community would gladly leave a testimonial of you asked21:25
Dice-Mandoes the meeting start ?21:25
andrejzif you are interested in the quality of my work, i can ask a leader of gnome translation team to give some testimonials21:25
Seveazbut for now I'm afraid you have to wait21:25
andrejzis that ok ?21:25
Seveazandrejz: yes, excellent idea21:25
popeyandrejz: that would be awesome21:25
andrejzok, that can be done21:26
andrejzso in a month's time ?21:26
popeyyeah, first tuesday21:26
Seveazandrejz: first tuesday of the month21:26
highvoltageandrejz: when you do establish that quality control system, or any of the other future plans listed on your page, please write a sentence about it on your application, it will also help21:26
andrejzwell what we mostly are trying to do is educate the translators21:26
Seveazsee you in a month then!21:27
andrejzas most of them just clicked on the translate this application link in ubuntu and weren't aware of the rules21:27
andrejzsee you then21:27
SeveazMichealH / MichealH_: you're up next21:27
highvoltageandrejz: thanks for your good work and see you next time!21:27
ogra_cmpcso get a translator to tell us about it (or write about it in the wiki) ;)21:27
drubinandrejz: thanks see you next meeting21:27
MichealHHi, I am Miicheal Harker and I have contributed lots to the Ubuntu Community, Mainly by making HOWTO's and Tutorials. I am not really a developer but the inspiration got me through. People had requested alot and I had gave them it. I have the stuff on my Wiki21:27
MichealHWiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.ocm/Micheal_Harker21:28
MichealHSite: http://www.michealh.co.cc21:28
czajkowskiMichealH: so you got involved a month ago, what made you start?21:28
drubinhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Micheal_Harker << fixed link21:28
MichealHNot a month ago It was more like 3 years ago I started Ubuntu21:29
popeythe forum links are broken21:29
Seveazother contributions are minimal, where can we find these howtos/tutorials?21:29
MichealHI didnt link them I hav just edited it like 30 mins ago in a rush sorry popey21:29
highvoltage-1 [ Wiki page contains insuficcient documentation of sustained contribution and application is otherwise incomplete ]21:29
MichealHThey should be on my wiki21:29
czajkowski-1 wiki page is incomplete21:30
Seveazwell, they are not21:30
Seveaz-1 for bad preparation. I believe czajkowski is volunteering to help there :)21:30
MichealHhere is one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...021:30
MichealHThat is my 64 bit Flash one21:30
SeveazMichealH: that's a broken link.21:30
czajkowskiSeveaz: I am...21:30
drubin-1 [Wiki page is incomplete and LP profile is +- only 6 months old I would like to see more continued involvement]21:30
highvoltageMichealH: At the minimum you need to follow the steps listed on the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership21:30
popeythe forums links are busted21:31
ogra_cmpcyeah, here too21:31
MichealHThis one is correct:http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...06&postcount=121:31
popeyno, it isnt21:31
Seveazno, it is not21:31
highvoltageMichealH: please keep in mind that as individuals we don't follow you personally, so we rely on a complete application in order to judge membership21:31
popeyI'll -1 too for the same reasons as others have cited. We need an up to date and working wiki page to work from21:32
MichealHGrr the thing is going wrong. It is at www.michealh.co.cc/ubuntu/member the link are there promise they are just shortened21:32
ogra_cmpcMichealH, clicking the forum links gets me to the forums frontpage21:32
MichealHThis is all going weird I had tripple checked tose links21:32
popeyhas everyone voted?21:32
ogra_cmpcwell, same thing on your homepage21:32
Seveazonly ogra_cmpc has not21:33
ogra_cmpc+0 from me21:33
Seveazok, MichealH please prepare your wikipage better next time21:33
Seveazlegreffier: you're next21:33
MichealHI will apply next time.21:33
* ogra_cmpc likes MichealH's enthusiasm, please keep that up :)21:33
* drubin too21:33
ogra_cmpcits just a bit of paperwork21:34
MichealHThanks ogra_cmpc21:34
MichealHI will get the paperwork sorted well21:34
MichealHVery well21:34
Seveazlegreffier: please introduce yourself21:34
czajkowskimoving on...21:34
legreffierMy name is Yoann, i'm from France :)21:34
legreffierI'm a member from the #ubuntu-fr team for a year21:35
highvoltagelegreffier: what are your interests in Ubuntu?21:35
legreffierand a helper on irc for a few more.21:36
* popey pokes the wiki21:36
legreffierwell , it's simple and cares great ideas.21:36
czajkowskilegreffier: I noticed you don't have any testimonials, can you tell me about some involvement in your LoCO ?21:37
czajkowskiI know the french loco is very active21:37
legreffierczajkowski: i have now!21:37
popeyczajkowski: there's 421:37
highvoltagelegreffier: how do you contribute to vimperator plugins and extensions?21:37
Seveazlegreffier: he has some brief comments21:37
* ogra_cmpc reloads21:38
legreffieri went to a few UP! but i'm not involved in the loco despite it's active.21:38
czajkowskireloads also21:38
nikoyes, he has some, he is an active op in #ubuntu-fr* namespace21:38
Seveazlegreffier: why are you not involved in the loco?21:38
czajkowskihuats: ping21:38
legreffieri lack the time for21:39
legreffierdespite I'd like to get more involved.21:39
SeveazI think that's a good idea21:39
highvoltage+0 [ Good work but I would like to see more before I'd be able to consider it significant and sustained contributions ]21:40
* ogra_cmpc thinks that too, but i dont see loco membership as a requirement 21:40
huatsczajkowski, pong21:40
nikohuats: c'est à propos du membership de legreffier :)21:40
McPeterhuats, o/21:40
huatsczajkowski, hello !21:41
legreffieri didn't know it was one + i think i lack some social skill[sz] as well.21:41
huatsand everyone elsetoo21:41
SeveazI'm with highvoltage but more +0.5 than +021:41
BlackZhey huats :)21:41
legreffierhello huats21:41
ogra_cmpchuats, can you tell us something about legreffier21:41
highvoltageSeveaz: heh, me too really21:41
huatslegreffier, is indeed one of aour very active op in the french team21:41
huatshe is part of the team21:41
Seveazhuats: what kind of things does he do?21:41
huatshe has been granted the right to participate21:42
huatsin the admin side21:42
huatswhich is great already21:42
huatssince we have quite a channel with quite a high number of people21:42
ogra_cmpchuats, so his work helps your team (and ubuntu) ?21:42
huatsogra_cmpc, definitly21:42
czajkowskihuats: so you think he contributes to the  french team21:42
huatscurrently 232 people on the channel21:43
* ogra_cmpc is +1 then21:43
huatswe need to have quite some ops :)21:43
Seveazyeah, changong to +1 too21:43
czajkowskiok based on huats comments I'm +121:43
czajkowskihuats: thanks for coming in :)21:43
drubin+1 From my side21:43
huatsczajkowski, he is clearly a part of the team21:43
popeyyeah, thanks huats ! +1 from me too21:43
davromaniaklegreffier is a very good person in ubuntu-fr and also in professional "life"21:43
ogra_cmpchuats, thanks a lot that heloed much21:43
huatsyour welcome everyone21:43
drubinbtw that is more people then in #ubuntu-meeting21:43
czajkowskiwhoo welcome legreffier21:43
nikoyep, as member of the ubuntu-fr ops, i'm agree :)21:43
highvoltagelegreffier: congratulations and welcome!21:43
ogra_cmpccongrats legreffier21:43
Seveazok, that's +5.5, welcome aboard!21:43
legreffieroh rly?21:44
huatscongrats legredier :)21:44
HardDiskcongratulations :)21:44
nikocongrats :)21:44
ogra_cmpcyes :)21:44
huatslegreffier, ::)21:44
legreffier great thank you very much21:44
Seveazpopey: would you mind doing launchpad duty? I'm on a spare box without my lp password21:44
HardDiskniko..you're here :) good21:44
McPeterubuntu meber of ubuntu-fr ops too .. i agree too21:44
* czajkowski is editing the wiki 21:44
popeycongrats legreffier21:44
SeveazBlackZ: you're up21:44
BlackZHi all, My name is Lorenzo De Liso and I'm from Italy. I started to use ubuntu since few years. I work as a IT security consultant for a datacenter and as a developer for a company.21:44
BlackZI'm an ubuntu contributor in many ways: I triage bugs (I'm a member of the ubuntu bugcontrol team), I review and test patches (I'm a member of the  ubuntu reviewers team), I'm an helper for users which wants to join an ubuntu development team (e.g. MOTU) (I'm a member of the mentoring reception team, we're reorganizing the team, the documentation ..).21:44
McPeterlegreffier, congrats :)21:44
BlackZI have did some translations in Italian, I'm the maintainer of some templates (hope to join the Italian translation team soon!), I also help sometimes in the channel #ubuntu-it.21:45
nikohello, HardDisk, again, apologies for my mistake few days ago :)21:45
BlackZSee my ubuntu wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso ) and my launchpad page ( https://www.launchpad.net/~blackz ) for more details.21:45
HardDiskniko, lol I actually have a good speech to say and it involves you in a good way :)21:45
HardDisksorry to interrupt.21:45
highvoltageBlackZ: based on your packaging work and your intent to become a MOTU, did you consider taking becoming a motu-contributing-member perhaps?21:45
BlackZhighvoltage: yeah, in the future21:46
highvoltageok, you could do that based on your existing work already.21:46
BlackZhighvoltage: I don't want that right now21:46
BlackZsince I don't think the work is enough ;)21:46
highvoltageBlackZ: for a contributing member you don't need a lot of work, the contributing members is a step below full MOTU21:47
Dice-Manhello legreffier21:47
BlackZhighvoltage: yeah but the bug triaging isn't *JUST* part of the ubuntu development21:47
BlackZso can't I apply? :(21:47
SeveazBlackZ: yes you can, but the more logical route is the development track21:48
czajkowskiBlackZ: can you tell me your involvement in the italian loco ?21:48
highvoltageBlackZ: yes you can!21:48
BlackZczajkowski: yes, I'm involved with the italian forum, the italian translation team, the italian documentation project21:48
BlackZsee my wiki page for full details21:48
highvoltageBlackZ: well let's talk about that after the meeting21:48
BlackZ... OK21:48
Seveazhighvoltage: so you're voting -1?21:48
highvoltageSeveaz: I'm still deciding but it will probably be +121:49
huatsI know it is not the issue here, but I'd like to stress the implication of BlackZ in the motu mentoring reception team.21:49
SeveazI'm leaning towards +121:49
drubinI am going for a +0 [as I think BlackZ work has mostly been packaging related and suggests trying to apply via that route]21:49
Seveazhuats: implication?21:49
huatsI am leading the team21:49
huatsthe team was quite dead21:49
huatsI have asked for help21:49
huatsand for the last 2 month21:49
huatsa new team is working on redifining the processes21:50
huatsand everything related to the mentoring of future developers21:50
highvoltageBlackZ: https://launchpad.net/~blackz/+related-software shows recent uploads to Lucid and Maverick, what work did you do on those packages?21:50
huatsBlackZ, is a member of the people who are rebuilding the team21:50
huatsso we are having (almost) weekly meeting21:50
huatsexchanging various email21:50
huatsrelated to that21:50
BlackZhighvoltage: it depends, sometime I just request a sync, I do the packaging work or I do a merge21:50
Seveazhuats: ok, that make me go -0 because the motu/developer route is really much more appropriate then21:50
huatsin order to redefine the process21:51
Seveazthat work seems absolutely awesome, but not really our 'territory'21:51
czajkowskiI thik -0 due to the MOTU work tbh21:51
BlackZSeveas: please see also the contribute to the #ubuntu-it channel21:51
huats(we haven't communicate over it since we haven't addressed all the issues)21:51
BlackZ... why are you seeing just the contribute to MOTU?21:51
BlackZI'm confused21:51
highvoltageBlackZ: I just checked the changelogs, you actually did some good work and I think you should really applu for a universe contributor at some stage21:51
drubinBlackZ: We just think your MOTU work outways your community involvement. (in a good way)21:52
huatsSeveaz, it is part of the Ubuntu community21:52
popeyi dont think one negates the other21:52
highvoltage+1 from me21:52
* ogra_cmpc sees bug contribution as well as irc, doc and translation contribution21:52
czajkowskiBlackZ: it's a good thing, as drubin has said we think your MOTU work outweighs your community work21:52
* popey votes +121:52
czajkowskiit;s all Ubutnu work just in different ways21:52
* ogra_cmpc is +121:52
popeya great mix of work21:52
* drubin is still +021:52
drubinHoping BlackZ will go the MOTU route :)21:53
BlackZdrubin: I will, but in the future21:53
Seveazthat's +3, which is a hung jury21:53
ogra_cmpcthough indeed i would encourage to move on with MOTU but the other contribution surely is enough for membership21:53
BlackZI don't want to do that now since I'm not contributing just to MOTU21:53
highvoltageSeveaz: has czajkowski voted?21:53
czajkowski did21:53
czajkowskiI did21:53
BlackZor better, the ubuntu development21:53
HardDisksuch contraversy :)21:53
popeyi dont think we should punish BlackZ by holding back membership when there is clearly more than just motu work21:53
BlackZas huats said, mentoring reception is part of the ubuntu community work21:54
BlackZalso, see *ALL* testimonials21:54
HardDiskcontroversy even*21:54
SeveazBlackZ: can you give us a link to your forum profile?21:54
highvoltageBlackZ: I didn't mean MOTU, I meant universe-contributors, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev21:54
highvoltageBlackZ: that's basically getting membership through the DMB, I'm sorry you couldn't make it tonight but I know you'll get there21:55
huatshighvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the Ubuntu membership21:55
popeywell, its not a yes or a no21:55
SeveazBlackZ: ?21:55
huatsI meant21:55
huatshighvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the MOTU membership21:55
BlackZ-> Seveas21:55
* BlackZ still don't know the reason for apply to MOTU instead since he has contributed in many ways and not just in the ubuntu development21:56
popeyuhm, its not hung21:56
Seveazpopey: +4 is majority21:56
popey3 are +1, 3 are 0, no -121:57
ogra_cmpcSeveas, one +0 ?21:57
ogra_cmpcoh 3 +0 ?21:57
Seveazforum profile only has 48 posts, where are most of your contributions to the loco?21:57
* ogra_cmpc somehow missed that21:57
BlackZSeveas: see in the wiki page the testimonials for the #ubuntu-it help21:57
BlackZalso see my translation work21:57
highvoltagewe've voted and provided feedback, let's move on so that the last two people can still apply in this meeting21:58
popeyok, the way I see it you have a choice, come back another time or go to the motu membership, or appeal to the cc21:58
popeydoes that sound fair to the emea board?21:58
Seveazit sounds like the sanest solution popey21:58
* ogra_cmpc doesnt get our voting mechanism21:58
popeyogra_cmpc: needs 4+ to pass21:58
ogra_cmpcits an overall +3 or not21:58
drubinyes popey21:59
czajkowskipopey: sounds good.21:59
highvoltageogra_cmpc: board members can mod up or down or abstain. a candidate requires a score of "4" to gain membership21:59
czajkowskican we move on to the last two21:59
Seveazok, BlackZ sorry to disappoint21:59
Seveazlet's move on21:59
Seveazsirex``: you're up21:59
ogra_cmpchighvoltage, k21:59
* sirex` is here21:59
sirex`Hi. My name is Mantas Zimnickas. Currently I'm leading Lithuanian Ubuntu community. Here in Lithuania we have only one Ubuntu Member – Tomas Žeimys, but his membership expired few days ago. Tomas Žeimys now has his own business and he is wery busy, so officially decided to leave Ubuntu Community. So I will try to replace him with communication with Ubuntu people from outside of Lithuania.21:59
highvoltagegreat, thanks for doing that sirex`22:00
czajkowskisirex`: nice wiki layout22:01
Seveaznice wiki content as well22:01
Seveazquite easily +1 from me22:01
MichealHsorry vbrummond Too late, I didnt get it Just PM me a testimonial like I PM ed you22:01
highvoltagetheir website is also nice22:01
MichealHand the I will add it22:01
SeveazMichealH: please take this to pm. The meeting is still ongoing22:02
drubineasy +122:02
czajkowskieasy +1 also, nice job and good luck wiht the team22:02
highvoltage+1 based on loco development and other community support22:03
popeyoh wow, thats +122:03
Seveazyay for well-prepared people22:03
Seveazwelcome aboard sirex` !22:03
popeybtw we're overrunning into a cc meeting which is happening now, but we have nothing on the agenda, and I'm sure the cc will wait :)22:03
highvoltagesirex`: congratulations and welcome!22:03
Seveazlast candidate: HardDisk22:03
czajkowskipopey: we'll make it quick22:03
HardDiskcongratulations :)22:03
HardDiskok bare with me I have a lot to past :D22:03
HardDiskHi, my name is Sam Azab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SamAzab, as you quickly browse my wiki site info.  Just a quick recap, I am a 31 year old Egyptian and the founder of #ubuntu-eg.  I took over as team leader since the previous leader stayed idle for 3 years without really doing anything.  So I decided to apply last year for ubuntu membership not fully understanding what it meant to be a member which is why I was rejected at the time.22:03
popeyadded to ubuntumembers22:04
HardDiskToday I present to you a new me literally.  Coincidentally yesterday a freenode op niko accidentally dropped my nick, and I had to go through jussi and tsimpson to get my channel back and given access back to me, so I think it was a sign that this occured on the eve of applying for membership :)...  I have revamped and recreated our EgyptTeam wiki site, I have been involved in producing and helping in our very first release party in C22:04
HardDiskairo Egypt at Cairo University, I am the one in the superman Tshirt and the ubuntu cap :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events22:04
HardDiskI was also inspired by Ronnie Tucker's Full Circle Magazine, but instead of just creating a translation version of his magazine like other languages and people have done.  I took a step further but helping in arranging our first Arabic based ubuntu magazine, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Articles/First%20Arabic%20Edition%20Ubuntu%20Plus%20Magazine and we have had lots of people downloading it via posts from our mailing li22:04
HardDiskst, from our forum links and have had good feedback till now.22:04
highvoltageHardDisk: seems like the only 2 meetings the EgyptTeam had occured in the last two months, has there been a recent revival?22:05
HardDiskI currently run a personal ubuntu blog, http://sambuntu.blogspot.com, but on Sunday we conducted a meeting into creating our first team blog/video blog/aggregator and we are in the process of producing such a site by the end of next week.  Many members are in exams right now so they are not able to attend this meeting, but I have their moral support.  Simple reason I don't have testimonials yet is due to the fact my members are very n22:05
HardDiskew and are still in the process of beginning themselves, and I am "mentoring" them into becoming productive members of the LoCo team, and explaining what it means to be part of such a team.22:05
HardDiskThe mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team, so I'm sure you have access to those resources, actions speak louder than words.  Also tsimpson was kindly to add lubotu3 yesterday to our channel, and we already discussed in our mailing list that we will prepare arabic localized factoids and apply them then wait for the IRC council to approve them to be placed up.22:06
HardDiskI believe from my first encounter of basically doing nothing to what I have achieved up to this moment in a year deserves recognition and that being becoming an official member with the ubuntu community.22:06
HardDiskand that's all I have to say.  Questions?22:06
SeveazI see one event and no testimonials. It looks like you're doing good work, but there's not much to confirm that.22:06
SeveazHow large is the locoteam in egypt?22:06
HardDiskofficially, 10 members.22:07
HardDiskunofficially, 2522:07
Seveazthen why did none of them comment on your wikipage?22:07
HardDiskbecause none of them have wiki pages22:07
ogra_cmpcthey can just comment on yours though22:07
ogra_cmpcor come over from #ubuntu-eg now and speak up22:08
HardDiskwell I explained already that the mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team.22:08
czajkowskiHardDisk: they don't need a wiki page to comment, just leave their name or link to launchpad22:08
HardDiskand its all in arabic22:08
highvoltage+0 [ really good work, but it's all very recent and I'd like to see more evidence of significant and sustained contribution before I could give a +1 ]22:08
Seveaz+0 as well, same reasons22:08
drubin+0 same reasnos22:08
HardDisksee I disagree.22:08
HardDiskbecause your reasons are the same I was told last time.22:09
* ogra_cmpc is +0.5 the work looks good but some testimonials would be nice22:09
czajkowskitestiminals would help HardDisk22:09
HardDiskI wont be able to get testimonials in english.22:09
Seveazwhy not?22:09
highvoltageHardDisk: I'm glad that you do disagree, I'd like to give you a +1 and suggest that you re-apply in about 3 months22:09
HardDiskbecause we speak arabic22:09
ogra_cmpcget them in arabic if you cant get them in english22:09
HardDiskim the only english speaker here22:09
SeveazHardDisk: then let them add the testimonials in arabic and translate them for us :)22:09
ogra_cmpcwe'll use google translate worst case22:09
czajkowskiHardDisk: ask ogra_cmpc said they dont have to be in english we can get google translate22:10
HardDiskwell it will take more than three months then22:10
highvoltageHardDisk: we'll accept testimonials in Arabic22:10
HardDiskbecause they are still learning the process22:10
HardDiskmaybe ill apply next year if I get the urge.22:10
SeveazHardDisk: there's no rush :)22:10
HardDisk2nd rejection isnt exactly encouraging for me.22:10
popeysorry, connection issues22:10
highvoltageHardDisk: your last application was quite recent iirc22:10
HardDiskthank you for your time.22:10
drubinHardDisk: Same here, get them to write them in Arabic22:10
ogra_cmpcHardDisk, just ask each of the ten people in #ubuntu-eg to write one sentence about you for next meeting22:11
highvoltageHardDisk: and there hasn't been much change since then, I suggest you get the Loco team solid, and get it approved as an official loco22:11
ogra_cmpcHardDisk, or even make them come in here22:11
HardDiskwe'll see, thanks.22:11
highvoltageHardDisk: I really believe you're doing good work and would love to give you a +1 in the future22:11
* ogra_cmpc too22:11
* drubin also22:11
HardDiskappreciate the incentive.22:12
ogra_cmpci'm actually only 0.5 away from that personally :)22:12
Seveazok, that concludes todays meeting, let's give the room to the CC22:12
highvoltagethanks everyone, next Meeting is on July 6th, 20:00 UTC22:12
czajkowskihighvoltage: wiki page updated22:12
Seveazoh damn, I won't make that one22:12
Technovikinganyome here from the CC meeting?22:12
Seveazsee you all in 2 months then :)22:13
highvoltageSeveaz: holidays?22:13
SeveazTechnoviking: actually, if there's an "anyone else" opportunity, I'd like to bring an issue to the table22:13
popeythanks everyone22:13
Technovikingany other CC people here22:14
highvoltageczajkowski: that was fast, thanks22:14
TechnovikingSeveaz: sure, let me see if we have close to quorum:)22:14
SeveazTechnoviking: it won't need a vote22:14
popeywe dont need quorum to discuss :)22:14
TechnovikingSeveaz: then seize the day22:14
popeypleia2 / nixternal ?22:14
highvoltageit's all boring stuff on the fixed agenda anyway :)22:15
* pleia2 waves22:15
pleia2sorry, at work, was distracted :)22:15
McPeterbye bye all &amp; see later22:15
Seveazwe had one candidate just now that had most contributions in motu/dev land and marginal verifiable contributions in loco land. He received 3 +1 votes and 3 neutral votes, so hung jury. We do feel bad about sending a message that says 'rejected' though and some CC guidance could be useful.22:16
MichealHPopey,What would I need to be successful next time22:16
popeyMichealH: there's a meeting going on right now22:16
MichealHoops sorry22:16
pleia2Seveaz: are they interested in membership via motu instead? (sorry if this is in the scrollback)22:17
Seveazthe neutral votes were all because the voters thought he should go that route, he was interested but 'didn't want to do that just yet'22:17
pleia2you did the right thing, and Americas board doesn't list deferrals (or rejections) in our announcements22:18
pleia2just new members, we just keep a record of those who are coming back and make sure to refer to it when they return22:18
Seveazwe don't either, but this vote sends such a message to the candidate. He felt rejected22:18
macomay i poke my head in a moment?22:19
drubinas one of the people that voted +0 it was for that very reason.22:19
pleia2gotcha, yeah, being delicate with these things is tricky sometimes, people get quite stressed about these applications22:19
macodo the "contributing developer" category get membership automatically like motu?22:19
huatsmaco, yep22:19
MichealHI feel sorry for the guy22:19
macoif someone's not prepared for motu yet but is a good contributor, that may be the route to send them22:19
macoer good contributor-in-the-dev-sense22:20
highvoltagemaco: yes, I tried to explain it but was met with resistance22:21
Seveazok, thanks. Makes me feel better about it :)22:21
ajmitchhighvoltage: it could in a way be seen as discouraging doing 'too much' development work (though perhaps not enough to get membership on development work alone)22:22
highvoltagemaco: he's actually done some really good packaging work and lists "becomming MOTU" as his future plans, so I'm not sure why he was resistant to the contributing-developer route22:22
highvoltageajmitch: that's what I figured too22:22
huatssorry to interrupt you but it is not the definition given by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership22:22
czajkowskiI've just mentioned that page should possibly be updated to reflect the packaging and  development22:24
drubinczajkowski: ^22:24
macoajmitch: if there's a decent balance of community work too, i'd +1. i think its just hard for the non-devs on the RMBs to judge dev contributions22:24
MichealHbasiccly I take rejection as a time to think about why I didn't get in and how I can make it better in the future thus, people ahpulnt take it seriously in my opinion22:24
pleia2lack of testimonials is also an issue (not sure how we can stress how important these are more, we had this problem at the last americas meeting too)22:25
macoyep, 3 deferrals due to lack of testimonials last time22:25
MichealHI agree testimonials are key tto esure quality22:25
Seveazemea sees that a lot as well22:26
pleia2sometimes it's ok to approve w/o testimonials, but there need to be pictures and very public work that's well-documented22:26
macoour loco has a flickr group so that when anyone around here goes up for membership we can just point at it.  or when czajkowski is deciding the team's fate :P22:27
MichealHas long as we see the quality I would +122:27
popeywonder if we should spam/mail people who add themselves to the agenda with 'what we expect' ?22:27
Seveazpopey: we could emphasize it a bit more on the wikipage22:27
Pendulummaybe someone could blog about it too as a reminder?22:28
popeySeveaz: they clearly dont read the wiki page22:28
czajkowskimaco: more than me on the board for loco council.22:28
pleia2Pendulum: blogging is ok, but it only reaches people at a specific moment in time22:28
macoczajkowski: eh youre the only one i know, and you're here :P22:29
Seveazit helped for 1 meeting after I did that last time :)22:29
czajkowskimaco: popey22:29
macopopey: are we able to make BIG text on the wiki?22:29
ajmitch<blink> tags?22:30
popeyand a stop sign22:30
Seveazok, let's put another question forward: how much should the RMB's take dev work into account?22:30
Seveaz(ok, it's the same question, posed differently)22:30
lifelessas evidence of sustained significant contribution, a lot22:30
highvoltageSeveaz: if a board member can judge the technical contributions, they should be allowed to vote to reflect positive contributions22:31
MichealHI don't think they should at all Someone may not develop and will be left out22:31
lifelessbut only if the RMB feels able to assess the work in question22:31
macohighvoltage: thats the worry i would have22:31
lifelessMichealH: we look for multiple forms of contribution, I don't see why we'd leave someone out.22:31
highvoltagemaco: if someone wants to apply on pure technical merit, they should really apply to the DMB22:31
macohow many of the people on each RMB are developer sorts *and* confident in their ability to judge others' technical contributions22:31
ajmitchMichealH: this is trying to avoid the case of someone being left out at that meeting because they're being told to apply to the DMB22:32
macohighvoltage: yeah thats why i said if they have a good balance of community stuff then i'd +1 in the RMB22:32
lifelessmaco: in the asia RMB, there is me and persia22:32
MichealHI know that but If you took dev work that seriously the. that may happen22:32
highvoltagemaco: if someone's contributions are a mix of community and developer work, then the RMBs certainly seem appropriate22:32
drubinI am happy to judge people bassed on technical merts, I was under the impression that technical contributions were for the DMB22:32
lifelessmaco: I can't comment on other RMB's without looking up their memberships22:32
pleia2I trust my fellow board members, if someone on the board can accurately evaluate contributions in dev-stuff I will trust their opinion when weighed against other work I can evaluate22:32
huatsIf I may : during the vote for that person, it has been said something like : "you contribution to the MOTU outweight (in a good way) your community work, so +0 for the Ubuntu membership.".22:33
Seveazdrubin: well, in this case I think the dev work far outweighrd community contributions, so I refered to the DMB22:33
macohighvoltage: agreed though i'd think the amount of each might be a factor. if they do a lot of technical and attended one release party... i'd send them to the DMB22:33
MichealHI think people who get people to come along to meeting to support them should get considered22:33
huatsSo I can understand that the technical contribution are not easily weightable, but if it is the case it should be reflected on the definition of the Ubuntu Membership22:34
lifelessMichealH: what are you concerned about in particular, I'm really not clear what you're saying.22:34
pleia2MichealH: people who come along to support count as testimonials22:34
highvoltagemaco: indeed, I'd clearly not count attending a release party a whole lot towards membership22:34
macohuats: thing is, technical contributions *do* count. thats why motu and UCD and core devs are automatically members. its just that a different set of people may be needed to do the evaluation22:34
MichealHif here was someone there to back someones contributions then the person applying should be considered more than the others22:35
macoi dont think written v. in-person testimonials should count separately22:35
macoer, differently22:35
SeveazI agree with maco22:35
lifelessMichealH: I get the feeling that you feel that applications are a contest. Is that right ?22:36
charlie-tcaMichealH: the supporter just needs to speak up22:36
Seveazactually, I even prefer wiki testimonials22:36
Seveazeasier to track and less festive in the channel...22:36
macoSeveaz: better record keeping?22:36
highvoltageSeveaz: indeed, and it shows that someone was willing to do a tiny bit of effort in preperation22:36
huatsmaco, that is my point (since I am MOTU too...) :) but if someone can not evaluate someone else work, it is complicated to vote22:37
lifelesshighvoltage: re when to use the DMB: If someone is very technical but applying that in ways that aren't package-uploads, I think the RMB is right.22:37
MichealHno you getting it wrong it's not that it's just someone to back their contributions have given 1 hour o heir time to back them up makes it look like the quality of their work is outstanding22:37
highvoltagelifeless: yep, agree 100% there22:37
lifelesshighvoltage: e.g. mass rebuilds, large scale bug triage with automated analysis, Loco web site maintenance etc.22:37
macolifeless: if theyre writing patches but not packaging them themselves... would you say RMB or DMB-for-UCD?22:38
MichealHThere was alot of people there who have locos but don't use them or don't upadate them should we take that into account22:38
huatsmaco, we are not talking about UCD right ? we are talking about membership in general22:38
lifelessmaco: If they are getting the patches *in*, I'd consider it in the RMB, but be a lot happier if their sponsor just got around to proposing them for DMB22:38
lifelessmaco: if the patches aren't getting in, then it doesn't matter how much time they spend writing them, its not actually helping anything -> not a contribution. Sadly. So I'd encourage them to work on closing the loop (which will get them more DMB attention anyway)22:39
macohuats: yes but UCD is one avenue to gaining membership. so if theyre not packaging obviously not DMB-for-MOTU, but DMB-for-UCD might work. or does the DMB ever do membership outside of those groups?22:40
huatsmaco, in my opinion DMB for UCD or Motu or coredev22:41
huatsand only22:41
lifelessAIUI the DMB is only delegated to give out upload-rights of various sorts, which carry membership with them22:41
macolifeless: UCD lacks upload rights but includes membership22:41
macolifeless: and the DMB gives that out22:41
lifelesskk, lemme refresh on that22:41
highvoltagehuats: that's how it is currently22:42
BlackZWell, I can't apply for the DMB (MOTU), why? Because my contributions aren't enough. I have applied for the RMB because I have contributed in many ways of ubuntu (translations, IRC help etc...). I had to appeal to the CC, why? Why I fell that's not right. Becoming a MOTU member isn't so easy and a MOTU can confirm that. However the contributions to the ubuntu development are BTW contributions to the ubuntu community, aren't they?22:42
huatshighvoltage, I know :)22:42
lifelessI really which I was a bit clearer about where I can upload, as MOTU, these days :P22:42
BlackZs/ubuntu community/ubuntu project22:43
lifelessmaco: righto, so UCD is very much package focused too22:43
lifelessmaco: I would steer someone primarily doing package work to DMB-*22:43
lifelessand someone doing primarily non-package work to RMB22:43
lifelesssome non package work is technical22:44
lifelessand I'd say case-by-case22:44
MichealHlifeless agreed22:44
Pendulumhow often are people given UCD status? because it strikes me that BlackZ didn't know it existed22:44
lifelessPendulum: its very new22:44
Pendulumwhich makes me wonder how often it's mentioned or happens22:44
lifelessI don't know the frequency22:44
macoPendulum: its existed for about a year and a bit22:44
lifeless(to me thats very new :P)22:44
huatslifeless, almost 2 years old....22:44
macoi think only like 6 or so people have ever applied22:44
ajmitchlifeless: to you, warty is new :P22:45
macoits easier to get in than motu22:45
lifelessajmitch: aww, shucks.22:45
Seveazajmitch: you're still on no-name-yet :P22:45
huatsI can speak of it, I have been Ubuntu Member, than UCD, than MOTU22:45
highvoltagelifeless: I thought you were a core-dev!22:46
MichealHI think it should be clarified on the wiki that a project should still be running for it to be classed as a contribution, just my 2 cents22:46
ajmitchmembership via the DMB is mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership22:46
macoBlackZ: thing is, the RMBs are mostly prepared to judge contributions that are more people-oriented while the DMB is in a better position for the more code/package related stuff. both are worthy of membership, it's just a difference of who is in a good position to evaluate your contribution22:47
macoMichealH: hmmmm?22:47
MichealHanyone agree?22:47
macoMichealH: there are dead projects that people are still contributing to?22:47
maco(do they still count as dead if thats the case?)22:48
MichealHok just a thouht22:48
lifelessMichealH: sustained significant contribution implies projects are still live: its not sustained if its not happening anymore22:48
Seveazmaco: that would make them undead?22:48
macoSeveaz: ZOMBIE PROJECTS!22:48
lifelessbut if someone did 3 projects, each 6 months long, I'd count them22:48
MichealHbut it should be clarified on the wiki22:48
lifelessas evidence of contribution over time22:48
lifelesswouldn't you ?22:48
MichealHyes like it's a serious contribution22:48
lifelessanyhow, sorry for jumping into your meeting, I should go get some code done.22:49
popeythanks lifeless22:49
MichealHif it lives it is a serious conribution and not one "I am doing this to become a member" thing22:49
MichealHAnd again just my two cents22:50
MichealHhas the meeting ended?22:53
SeveazI think so, nobody's saying anything :)22:53
MichealHI have lots of suggestions for the wiki page outlining the rules. I could clear it up if you want so It constains all the guidelines if nessesary22:54
SeveazMichealH: no, please leave that page alone22:55
lifelessMichealH: we depend on the boards to make assessments22:55
lifelessMichealH: its not a hard and fast 'do X and become a member.', unless X is 'sustained, significant contribution'22:55
popeyi think this discussion has been very valuable22:56
MichealHIt has let me have a little natter22:56
popeyand reinforces my resolve that all the membership boards should have shared communication tools22:56
MichealHI am not on the board.I was contributing to the discussion22:57
Seveazpopey: yes, where are we on that?22:57
MichealHgiving my ideas22:57
popeySeveaz: good question, will poke again, there's an rt for it22:57
MichealHsee you tommorow I like the meeting channel. I will see if there is a meeting I can have a rant at tommorow hehe22:58
SeveazMichealH: you really should stop.22:58
MichealH 'night22:59
legreffierthank you to the council , thank you for the whole ubuntu thing , see you all soon :D23:00
HardDiskquick question, where does one go or ask about to appeal a decision?23:43
popeyHardDisk: the community council23:44
popey"Community Council List" <community-council@lists.ubuntu.com>,23:44
HardDiskk thanks.23:44

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