[05:35]  * amachu is away: Gone away for now
[14:00]  * NCommand1r sighs
[14:00] <lag> o/
[14:01] <NCommand1r> freenode locked me out of my own nick :-/
[14:01] <mcasadevall> There
[14:01] <mcasadevall> #startmeeting
[14:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is mcasadevall.
[14:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:01] <mcasadevall> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100601
[14:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100601
[14:01] <mcasadevall> [topic] Roll Call
[14:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
[14:01] <mcasadevall> So who's here?
[14:02]  * GrueMaster awake & accounted for.
[14:02]  * lag is in attendance 
[14:02] <mcasadevall> ogra: davidm: plars: dyfet: ping?
[14:02] <davidm> G'day
[14:02]  * ogra waves
[14:03] <ogra> cooloney excused himself, he will likely be late
[14:03] <dyfet> hi
[14:03] <davidm> plars, is not on the roll call anymore
[14:04] <mcasadevall> persia doesn't appear to be online
[14:04] <ogra> mcasadevall, vacation
[14:04] <davidm> persia is on holiday
[14:04] <ogra> dont expect him for the next three weeks
[14:04] <mcasadevall> ah
[14:04] <mcasadevall> three?
[14:04]  * mcasadevall blinks
[14:04] <mcasadevall> Japan has a lot of holidays
[14:04] <mcasadevall> Anyway
[14:05] <mcasadevall> [topic] Annoucements
[14:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Annoucements
[14:05] <mcasadevall> Folks, activity reports please!
[14:05] <ogra> ??
[14:05] <ogra> that should be under AOB :)
[14:05] <mcasadevall> ogra: no one has been putting ARs on the wiki aside from myself
[14:05] <mcasadevall> It keeps getting ignored, that's why I'm putting it at the start
[14:05] <ogra> k
[14:06] <mcasadevall> Please make sure you post your ARs to the wiki ASAP
[14:06]  * ogra will do so after meeting
[14:06] <mcasadevall> [topic] Action Item Review
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[14:06] <mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
[14:06] <mcasadevall> Done
[14:06] <ogra> yeah, thanks for that
[14:06] <mcasadevall> [topic] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
[14:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
[14:07] <GrueMaster> co
[14:07] <mcasadevall> [action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
[14:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
[14:07] <mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
[14:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
[14:07] <mcasadevall> Discussed it briefly, no resolution as of yet.
[14:07] <mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
[14:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
[14:07] <ogra> i thought lamont proposed a resolution
[14:08] <mcasadevall> ogra: did he?
[14:08] <lamont> resolution is that I need to figure out how to do per-architecture timeouts in a sane way.
[14:08] <mcasadevall> I failed to poke Keybuk so co
[14:08] <lamont> but I'm not here right now. this is a recording.
[14:08] <ogra> mcasadevall, in the log snipped i pasted lamont asked for the packages to be fixed
[14:08] <mcasadevall> ogra: I must have missed it :-/
[14:09] <mcasadevall> [topic]Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times
[14:09] <MootBot> New Topic: Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times
[14:09]  * mcasadevall failed on this one
[14:09]  * ogra too
[14:09] <ogra> but then i'm also happy with meeting times
[14:09]  * mcasadevall would be happier if they were offset 12 hours but YMMV
[14:10] <mcasadevall> [topic] Standing Items
[14:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[14:10] <mcasadevall> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
[14:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
[14:10] <mcasadevall> The bar of success looks really really low
[14:10] <ogra> we finally have all items in place
[14:11] <ogra> i just asked pitti to reset it to 46 items
[14:11] <ogra> the bar will be correct in 60min
[14:11] <mcasadevall> yay
[14:11] <ogra> (next cron run(
[14:11] <mcasadevall> ogra: but shouldn't it be set to 52, which is the high point where everything went in?
[14:12] <ogra> while we have no A1 items everyone please work on their A2 items :)
[14:12] <ogra> mcasadevall, who cares as long as we stay below :)
[14:12] <mcasadevall> ogra: point tkaen
[14:12] <mcasadevall> Our kernel devs aren't here ATM, so I'll skip kernel status for now
[14:13] <ogra> lag is here
[14:13] <mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:13] <mcasadevall> oh
[14:13] <mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:13] <mcasadevall> bah
[14:13] <ogra> heh
[14:13] <mcasadevall> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
[14:13] <GrueMaster> Not a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates.
[14:13] <ogra> lag, has an omap3 kernel been uploaded to the archive already ?
[14:14] <lag> ?
[14:14] <ogra> lag, i thought you care for omap3 ?
[14:14] <lag> I have no idea
[14:14] <ogra> or was that omap4 in 10.10
[14:14] <ogra> ah, k :)
[14:14] <lag> I haven't been told a thing
[14:15] <ogra> ok
[14:15] <lag> Apparently I have a 'panda' board coming to me
[14:15] <ogra> all i know is that cooloney cares for the 10.07 kernel
[14:15] <lag> And I've been included in this meeting and the weekly chat with TI
[14:15] <ogra> so the 10.10 work will be spread between you and mpoirier
[14:15] <lag> That's all I know
[14:15] <lag> Thanks for letting me know ;)
[14:16] <ogra> which means an omap3 kernel built from mainline and a specially branched omap4 kernel
[14:16] <davidm> cooloney will train lag and mpoirier on what we need
[14:16] <ogra> ok
[14:16] <davidm> he will be around until they are fully up to speed
[14:16] <lag> Thanks davidm
[14:17]  * ogra also likes to announce that x-loader-omap4 and u-boot-omap4 sit in the NEW queue, if Riddell gets to it they should hit the archive today
[14:17]  * Riddell takes the hint
[14:17] <ogra> (not exactly kernel but close :) )
[14:17]  * ogra hugs Riddell 
[14:17]  * mcasadevall hugs Riddell
[14:17] <ogra> mcasadevall, how about movin on :)
[14:18] <mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[14:18] <GrueMaster> deja vu?
[14:18] <GrueMaster> Not a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates
[14:18] <ogra> tri va vu :)
[14:19] <mcasadevall> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:19] <ogra> looks horrid
[14:19] <mcasadevall> Indeed
[14:19] <mcasadevall> A lot of it is cascade from Qt4 exploding
[14:19] <ogra> yeah
[14:19] <mcasadevall> I've managed to determine that lzma compression + massive dbg packages == ow
[14:19] <ogra> libnih is gone ... though just because upstart failed completely now
[14:19] <mcasadevall> ugh
[14:20] <ogra> i guess it will return
[14:20]  * mcasadevall knows what he's doing this week
[14:20] <ogra> mcasadevall, btw, did you get my response to the livecd-roofs mail ?
[14:20] <mcasadevall> ogra: yes, did you get my response to it?
[14:21] <ogra> i mean the resonse to that one :)
[14:21]  * ogra wants a last one char change 
[14:21] <mcasadevall> ogra: oh, then I didn't get the response to my response of your response
[14:21] <ogra> lol
[14:22] <ogra> dyfet, btw, how did the MOTU think go on friday ?
[14:22]  * mcasadevall kicks offlineimap
[14:22] <ogra> could you take on some more FTBFS issues ?
[14:22] <mcasadevall> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[14:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[14:22] <dyfet> ogra: I was not able to get the people I needed to sign onto the application in time
[14:22] <ogra> since mcasadevall still has some debian-cd work to do it would be good if you could take that
[14:23] <ogra> oh
[14:23] <ogra> i thought you said it would be friday
[14:23] <dyfet> ogra: that was based on that happening
[14:23] <ogra> aha
[14:23] <mcasadevall> ogra: I was actually going to put most of that work on hold, we can't really touch the infrastructure during alpha 1
[14:23] <ogra> mcasadevall, we can prepare everything
[14:23] <mcasadevall> and then we can just focus on merging what must be merged
[14:24] <ogra> i surely can merge livecd-rootfs and hold back the upload and you can work on the separate branch
[14:24] <mcasadevall> ogra: works for me I guess
[14:24] <ogra> great
[14:24] <mcasadevall> I was planning on squashing FTBFS this week though
[14:24] <ogra> since i want to have jasper ready by end of the week
[14:24] <GrueMaster> Are we going to start producing images this week?
[14:24] <ogra> GrueMaster, next probably
[14:25] <ogra> we're still missing some bits
[14:25] <GrueMaster> So nothing for Alpha 1?
[14:25] <ogra> nope
[14:25] <mcasadevall> ogra: we're not spinning old-style OMAp3 images?
[14:25] <GrueMaster> Even the old style images?
[14:25] <ogra> mcasadevall, i asked pitti to hold off on that
[14:25] <GrueMaster> ok
[14:25] <ogra> since someone would have to clean up cdimage then
[14:25] <mcasadevall> ogra: fair enough
[14:25] <ogra> they gain us nothing
[14:25] <mcasadevall> ogra: ah, very good point.
[14:26] <mcasadevall> So, on the pre-installation image front
[14:26] <mcasadevall> livecd-rootfs code has landed
[14:26] <ogra> next irc meeting we should have something
[14:26] <mcasadevall> Initial debian-cd code has landed
[14:26] <mcasadevall> er
[14:26] <mcasadevall> not has landed
[14:26] <mcasadevall> has been written
[14:26]  * mcasadevall is obviously not at full caffination
[14:27] <ogra> did you look at the publishing code yet ?
[14:27] <ogra> (i put the branch for you on the server)
[14:27] <mcasadevall> ogra: no, most of my weekend was spent traveling up to Rochester
[14:27] <ogra> ah, k
[14:27]  * mcasadevall is working out of a hotel today
[14:27] <ogra> please focus on that as soon as you have time
[14:27] <mcasadevall> ogra: I want to get the initial review of the d-cd branch done though before I start tearing into the publishing code
[14:27] <ogra> images > ftbfs
[14:28] <mcasadevall> ogra: indeed, although that list is getting very scary :-/
[14:28] <ogra> as long as ubuntu-netbook for armel doesnt show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/maverick_probs.html all is fine
[14:28] <mcasadevall> Anything else we want to bring up w.r.t. to images?
[14:28] <ogra> we can do ftbfs all the time, images have to happen asap
[14:29] <ogra> nothing from me
[14:29] <mcasadevall> nor me
[14:29] <ogra> move ! :)
[14:29] <mcasadevall> [topic] Any Other Business
[14:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[14:30] <ogra> nothing here
[14:31] <davidm> nothing from me
[14:32] <mcasadevall> then without further adue
[14:32] <mcasadevall> #endmeeting
[14:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:32.
[14:32] <ogra> clap clap clap
[14:32] <mcasadevall> (that was a quick meeting)
[14:32] <ogra> that was fast today :)
[14:32]  * mcasadevall fights to get his nick back
[14:59] <pitti> hello
[14:59] <kees> \o
[14:59] <Keybuk> hey all
[15:00] <mdz> Keybuk, you're chairing, right?
[15:00] <Keybuk> I am
[15:01] <Keybuk> just trying to find the minutes of the previous meeting
[15:01] <mdz> Keybuk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/May2010#Technical Board
[15:01] <mdz> Keybuk, are you updating the agenda, or do you want help?
[15:01] <Keybuk> I'm updating the agenda currently
[15:02] <Keybuk> ok
[15:02] <Keybuk> #startmeeting
[15:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is Keybuk.
[15:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:02] <Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:02] <Keybuk> there is very little on the agenda today
[15:02] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Action Review
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Review
[15:02] <pitti> should we add jcastro's Request for standing FFe for Chromium?
[15:02] <Keybuk> I took an action to draft a mail about the sparc and ia64 ports and send to TB for approval
[15:03] <Keybuk> I've done that, it's waiting on the last few TB members to comment on it
[15:03] <Keybuk> cjwatson in particular, I think
[15:03] <kees> I just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
[15:03] <mdz> Keybuk, I just added an item from the mailing list
[15:03] <Keybuk> since I've just seen kees' +1
[15:03] <mdz> pitti, I did
[15:03] <Keybuk> cjwatson: do you have any objections to the mail, or should I sent it on?
[15:04] <Keybuk> ok, timeout; I'll send it out
[15:04] <Keybuk> The other action assigned was to jcastro to talk to the GNOME release team about the schedule
[15:04] <Keybuk> jcastro: how did that go?
[15:04] <mdz> I saw only +1s on the mailing list
[15:04] <mdz> (re: your mail)
[15:05] <jcastro> Keybuk: I've been on holiday, I am back today though
[15:05] <Keybuk> ok, we'll carry that one over
[15:05] <Keybuk> those are teh only two actions I can see
[15:06] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chromium standing FFe
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chromium standing FFe
[15:06] <jcastro> Keybuk: I am still also unclear on what exactly we need to talk to them about, we can catch up after the meeting though
[15:06] <Keybuk> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html
[15:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html
[15:06] <kees> I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
 I just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
[15:06] <kees> 37
[15:06] <mdz> kees, :-)
[15:06] <kees> s/37//
[15:06] <mdz> kees' proposal sounds reasonable to me
[15:06] <Keybuk> I agree with kees
[15:07] <mdz> we should agree a fixed point at which to review the situation though, so it doesn't get dropped
[15:07] <mdz> e.g. after 3 months, or after N SRUs or when someone screams
[15:07] <pitti> sounds good
[15:08] <pitti> I think I'll just bring it back to the agenda once the SRU team gets fed up^W^Wsufficiently acquainted with chromium SRUs
[15:08] <Keybuk> pitti: that sounds good
[15:08] <kees> I would arbitrary pick 3 consecutively successful SRUs, but yeah, it's mostly a "okay, we've done this enough that we don't want to look at it any more" kind of a time.
[15:09] <mdz> agreed
[15:09] <pitti> but even for single SRUs we need to extend the usual SRU rules
[15:09] <pitti> if that should be the SRU team's discretion, then fine
[15:09] <kees> pitti: right, but that's generally been up to the SRU team.
[15:11] <kees> I'm fairly certain chromium will be fine, but I don't like setting the precedent of pre-approving a standing exception with no evidence of SRU sanity.
[15:12] <Keybuk> ok, sounds like there's a rough consensus here and that pitti will reapply once there's been a few SRUs
[15:12] <pitti> sounds good
[15:12] <mdz> agreed
[15:12] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Community Bugs
[15:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Community Bugs
[15:12] <Keybuk> bug #585807
[15:12] <Keybuk> mdz: had any luck with that one?
[15:13] <mdz> Keybuk, I needed someplace to park it, because the Launchpad team can't talk to us about it yet (per jml)
[15:13] <mdz> I think the TB should triage it
[15:13] <Keybuk> triage how?
[15:13] <mdz> decide on its priority
[15:14] <mdz> and then we can put it to the Launchpad team along with the rest of our backlog when their next iteration begins
[15:14] <sabdfl> hello all, sorry to be late
[15:14] <mdz> so, how severe a problem do we feel this is today?
[15:14] <Keybuk> a large part of it seems to be about spec work
[15:14] <mdz> we've been working around it for a long time, so it doesn't seem that urgent
[15:15] <mdz> but, it is irksome
[15:15] <kees> yeah, it's been this way for as long as I remember
[15:15] <Keybuk> reading the list, an initial separation might be to separate out the bug-related pieces to ubuntu-bug-control
[15:15] <kees> I can't see it being higher than "Medium"
[15:15] <Keybuk> and worry about actually splitting up the pieces later
[15:15] <pitti> I think all core devs can at least approve bug task nominations now, wich has helped a lot
[15:15] <Keybuk> right, I'd live with Medium
[15:15] <pitti> this was my biggest concern so far
[15:16] <mdz> I don't think we need to decide yet how it should work (though I did a detailed writeup of that last year)
[15:16] <mdz> just how important it is
[15:16] <pitti> approving blueprints to releases is my next one, but the number of people who need to isn't large enough to make ubuntu-drivers membership a real problem
[15:16] <pitti> so I concur with "medium"
[15:16] <mdz> once it makes it onto the list for LP, we can have a conversation about how to fix it
[15:16] <mdz> Medium WFM
[15:16] <Keybuk> Ironically, I can't actually change the status or importance
[15:16] <Keybuk> mdz: you'll have to do that I guess ;-)
[15:17] <pitti> *laugh*
[15:17] <pitti> well, it's not an Ubuntu bug, so you shouldn't be able to as non-project member
[15:17] <mdz> Keybuk, I can't either
[15:17] <Keybuk> pitti: it's assigned to a team I'm a member of :)
[15:18] <pitti> I can set status, but not priority
[15:18] <mdz> is that because it's a security bug?
[15:18] <mdz> or because of the project it's filed on?
[15:18] <pitti> because of the project, I think
[15:18] <mdz> pitti, i can't set status to Triaged
[15:18] <kees> i think because of the project
[15:18] <mdz> but I can set the importance (and did so)
[15:18] <pitti> otherwise you could first assign to yourself, and then set everything else
[15:18] <mdz> pitti, so i fyou can set it to Triaged, we're done :-)
[15:18] <pitti> mdz: I can't, just confirmed
[15:18] <pitti> not wontfix/triaged
[15:18] <mdz> good enough I suppose
[15:19] <mdz> we've spent too much time on it as it is
[15:19] <mdz> I've set Confirmed/Medium
[15:19] <Keybuk> ok
[15:19] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Other Business
[15:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Business
[15:19] <Keybuk> any other business before we select a chair?
[15:19] <Keybuk> 3...
[15:19] <Keybuk> 2...
[15:20] <Keybuk> 1...
[15:20] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
[15:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
[15:20] <Keybuk> by nickname rotation (from sabdfl), it's cjwatson next, but I'm loth to select him as he's not here
[15:20] <mdz> he only needs to be here NEXT Time
[15:20] <Keybuk> mdz: making someone chair without telling them seems rude
[15:20] <Keybuk> and runs the risk that he'll never know he's supposed to be
[15:20] <mdz> Keybuk, of course you should tell him
[15:21] <mdz> sometime in the next week should be sufficient
[15:21] <Keybuk> ok
[15:21] <Keybuk> cjwatson it is then
[15:21] <Keybuk> #endmeeting
[15:21] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
[15:21] <mdz> thanks Keybuk
[15:21] <kees> thanks!
[15:21] <pitti> thanks
[15:21] <sabdfl> thanks and cheers
[15:22] <cjwatson> eek, I'm sorry, I completely missed this on my calendar
[15:22] <cjwatson> I was buried in trying to sort out a horrible make timestamping problem
[15:22] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I have no objections to your mail
[15:22] <kees> cjwatson: building on a filesystem that doesn't support sub-second mtime?
[15:23] <cjwatson> kees: no, just cdbs-induced craziness with double-colon rules
[15:23] <kees> oh yikes
[15:23] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I'm also fine with being chair
[15:25] <Keybuk> k, report up and agenda cleared
[15:31] <cjwatson> BTW I also cleared my action to write up those ancient meeting minutes last week
[15:32] <Keybuk> yes, I saw
[17:26] <MichealH> Getting Ready for Desktop Team Meeting
[17:31] <Riddell> MichealH: in #ubuntu-desktop
[17:31] <MichealH> oops...
[17:32] <MichealH> I just watch and you know Ask ect.
[17:32] <ogra> MichealH, but you should join #ubuntu-desktop to actually see the meeting ;)
[17:33] <MichealH> I know Im only here for my Membership Meeting :)
[17:33] <ogra> ah :)
[17:33] <ogra> (the above sounded different)
[17:50] <drubin> isn't the membership meeting only in 2 hours?
[17:50] <andrejz> no, in 3 actually ;)
[17:51] <drubin> Ah maths fail :)
[17:51] <drubin> at least I have time then, awesome
[17:59] <JFo> \o/
[17:59] <mpoirier> JFo !
[17:59] <mpoirier> you still on the phone ?
[17:59] <apw> o/
[17:59] <kamal> o/
[17:59] <JFo> mpoirier, heh
[17:59]  * smb phases in
[17:59]  * manjo zooms in
[18:00] <lag> o/
[18:00]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00] <mpoirier> JFo: ya, we were working, the phone rang, you left and never came back.
[18:00] <JFo> yep we will talk after this
[18:00] <mpoirier> no worries.
[18:00] <JFo> :)
[18:00] <lag> \_o_/
[18:00] <lag>  |
[18:00] <lag>  /\
[18:00]  * cking here
[18:00]  * apw notes lag missed
[18:01]  * pgraner here 0/
[18:01] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01]  * lag sulks
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
[18:01] <bjf> #
[18:01] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:01] <bjf> #
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:01] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (0 bugs, 10 Blueprints)
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs ()
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * 5 linux kernel bugs
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * 14 blueprints
[18:01] <JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
[18:01] <JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
[18:01] <JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:02] <JFo> please note: I have removed the mvl, fsl and ec2 items
[18:02] <JFo> ..
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
[18:02] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
[18:02] <bjf> Nothing new this week.
[18:02] <bjf> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
[18:03] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
[18:03] <manjo> nothing new this week
[18:03] <manjo> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
[18:03] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
[18:03] <apw> There are two outstanding items for Alpha-1, getting mainline builds to include linux-tools and progressing the -preempt pakcages.  These are both non-release tasks.  The first is likely to slip to alpha-2 now, the second is progresing but also likely to slip.
[18:03] <apw> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
[18:04] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
[18:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
[18:04] <tgardner> LTS backport kernel and meta package are in the kernel-ppa
[18:04] <tgardner> its tracking maverick as its released.
[18:04] <tgardner> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
[18:05] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
[18:05] <bjf> Slow progress, more testing without success. Will have to try pv-ops on HVM drivers this week.
[18:05] <bjf> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
[18:05] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
[18:07] <cnd> kernel config is set, confirmed with upstream
[18:07] <cnd> no new work other than that yet
[18:07] <cnd> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
[18:07] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
[18:08] <ogasawara> There are only two work items still open for Alpha-1, both of which are not critical for Alpha-1's release.
[18:08] <ogasawara> apw, manjo: if you don't think you'll get to those before Thurs, I'll move them under the Alpha-2 milestone.
[18:08] <ogasawara> ..
[18:08] <manjo> ogasawara, ok
[18:08] <apw> ogasawara, please
[18:08] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
[18:08] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
[18:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
[18:08] <apw> Still no testing feedback from foundations on union-mounts, there is talk of another drop occuring from upstream which will simplify the patches.  It is unclear when this new drop will occur however.
[18:09] <apw> We also have an issue with aufs2 in maverick which is leading to aufs2 panics during boot on the live-cd.  I have an update for aufs2 which I am attempting to test to see if that fixes the issues.  It is likely we will have to update aufs2 as soon as we are on 2.6.35-rcN.  The update does appear to be good, and we are being asked to respin with aufs2 updated.  Will get patches out shortly.
[18:09] <apw> ..
[18:09] <apw> ogasawara, will get with you after the meeting to coordinate
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
[18:09] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
[18:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
[18:10] <JFo> Continuing work on the wiki pages with input from apw, ogasawara and smb. I plan to send some e-mail out on the ongoing effort today.
[18:10] <JFo> also, I have some prep work happening that will move several topics to INPROGRESS
[18:10] <JFo> ..
[18:11] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
[18:11] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
[18:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
[18:11] <apw> ssh+git://zinc.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git
[18:11] <apw> ..
[18:11] <apw> bottom
[18:11] <apw> We have patches pending for the remaining Alpha-1 deliverable, waiting on testing from Foundations.  These would most readily be applied post Alpha-1.
[18:11] <apw> ..
[18:12] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
[18:12] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
[18:12] <cking> Nothing new this week
[18:12] <cking> ..
[18:12] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
[18:12] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
[18:12] <cking> Test for common BIOS error messages
[18:12] <cking> APIC edge/level trigger test
[18:12] <cking> acpiinfo: common kernel log ACPI checks
[18:12] <cking> Common S3/S4 PM kernel error checks
[18:12] <cking> S3 multiple suspend/resume cycle tests
[18:12] <cking> S4 hibernate/resume test
[18:12] <cking> Add in test run order/priority
[18:12] <cking> Rework kernel log scanning + execution of some user space tools
[18:12] <cking> Rework wakealarm code into common library calls
[18:12] <cking> Add ability to take pre-captured input from dmidecode, /proc/acpi/dsdt and dmesg rather than at run time
[18:12] <cking> Manoj added a test from the test suite into kernel-qa dev to prove the test suite integrates in okay.
[18:12] <cking> ..
[18:13] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
[18:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
[18:13] <ogasawara> We uploaded the 2.6.34-5.12 Alpha 1 kernel last Friday.  There will be no further uploads until after Thurs.  Unfortunately the first iso's were just spun yesterday and have uncovered 2 bugs we need to be aware of (thanks apw and tgardner for already taking ownership):
[18:13] <ogasawara> Bug 587888
[18:13] <ogasawara> Bug 587893
[18:13] <ogasawara> I should take that back, we might upload for the aufs bits
[18:14] <ogasawara> Also note that 2.6.35-rc1 was released so I'll be rebasing Maverick today.
[18:14] <ogasawara> ..
[18:14] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:14] <smb> Status unchanged from last week. Security release nearly out (probably tomorrow).
[18:14] <smb> ..
[18:14] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:14] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:14] <JFo> 1005 Lucid Bugs (down 129)
[18:14] <JFo> 5 Maverick Bugs (up 1)
[18:14] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:14] <JFo> [18:14] <JFo>   * 5 maverick bugs (up 2)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 262 lucid bugs (down 40; to be converted to regression-release)
[18:15] <JFo> [18:15] <JFo>   * 26 lucid bugs (up 1)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 9 karmic bugs (no change)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs (no change)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 1 hardy bug (down 1)
[18:15] <JFo> [18:15] <JFo>   * 146 lucid bugs (down 3)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 50 karmic bugs (no change)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 20 jaunty bugs (no change)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs (no change)
[18:15] <JFo> [18:15] <JFo>   * 1 lucid bug (no change)
[18:15] <JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
[18:15] <JFo> ..
[18:16] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:16] <JFo> This week's Bug Day will be on Thursday. I plan to send out an announcement for it later today with a reminder going out tomorrow. The current plan is to review Bugs with Patches attached to eliminate misreported patches and prepare the list for team review. Additionally, i will resume our use of the 'cherry-pick' tag to identify bugs with upstream commit SHA1s in them for us to review and react accordingly. You can see the list of these from this
[18:16] <JFo>  link: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=cherry-pick
[18:17] <JFo> ..
[18:17] <apw> .
[18:17] <apw> cherry-pick, is that a standard tag ?
[18:17] <JFo> it is
[18:17] <apw> cool thanks ..
[18:17] <JFo> it's one that we don't use
[18:17] <JFo> but I think it will help identify those bugs that have the SHA
[18:17] <apw> seems sensible ..
[18:17] <JFo> since they will most likely not have a patch attached
[18:17] <JFo> cool
[18:18] <JFo> ..
[18:18] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)
[18:18] <JFo> o/
[18:18] <bjf> JFo, go
[18:18] <JFo> just wanted to draw your attention here http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/linux
[18:18] <JFo> ..
[18:19] <bjf> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/alsa-driver
[18:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/alsa-driver
[18:19] <apw> o/
[18:19] <bjf> as well
[18:19] <bjf> apw, go
[18:19] <apw> remember we discussed the b43 driver not working, i've confirmed that
[18:20] <apw> it does not work in the current release kernel in lucid
[18:20] <apw> dma errors etc
[18:20] <apw> with smb's latest stable 32.13 the b43 does work pretty well, and i am using it now
[18:20] <apw> ..
[18:20] <tgardner> apw, is compat-wireless any better?
[18:21] <apw> tgardner, can't say i've tried it no
[18:21] <tgardner> apw, just curious, it should be a superset
[18:21] <apw> but as it will shortly work with the '-updates' kernel i guess we'll be in a good palce
[18:21] <smb> If those changes went into 2.6.34
[18:22] <smb> But I have not checked
[18:22] <tgardner> smb, compat-wireless-2.6.34
[18:22] <cnd> I would think they would have to be in 2.6.34
[18:22] <cnd> to have been released as part of a stable updates
[18:22] <smb> tgardner, right, I understand thats based on 2.6.34?
[18:22] <cnd> according to the rules
[18:22] <tgardner> smb, not based, it _is_ the 2.6.34 wireless stack
[18:22] <smb> cnd, Those patches are comming from upstream
[18:23] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:23] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:23] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
[18:23] <JFo> thanks bjf
[18:23] <smb> tgardner, Ok, so I should say it would work if the bugfixes were part of 2.6.34 (but thats quite likely)
[18:25] <kamal> thanks bjf
[18:33] <MichealH> How long till the EMEA Member Meeting Anyone?
[18:37] <bjf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Tagging
[18:37] <bjf> manjo, ^
[18:37] <BlackZ> MichealH: the meeting is at 20:00 UTC
[18:38] <MichealH> Is it? The Calendar syas different
[18:38] <MichealH> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[18:40] <BlackZ> MichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.
[18:40] <BlackZ> maybe it's a popey's fault
[18:40] <popey> that is entirely possible
[18:40] <MichealH> Oh Well I suppose I say here after 7 just to make sure
[18:40] <BlackZ> popey: so 19:00 UTC?
[18:40] <popey> no
[18:41] <MichealH> 20:00?
[18:41] <BlackZ> indeed
[18:41] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[18:41] <popey> "The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC."
[18:41] <BlackZ> popey: that's what I'm saying :)
 MichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.
[18:41] <popey> Tue Jun  1 17:41:34 UTC 2010
[18:41] <popey> ^^ time now
[18:41] <popey> heh
[18:41]  * popey hugs date -u
[18:41] <MichealH> But my point is the callendar says different
[18:42] <BlackZ> MichealH: good luck
[18:43] <MichealH> See ya at 20:00 UTC then
[18:43] <popey> the fridge is wrong is it?
[18:43] <MichealH> It says"Events shown in time zone: GMT (no daylight saving)"
[18:43] <drubin> No the callendar is correct
[18:44] <popey> no, it isnt :)
[18:44] <popey> it says 7pm
[18:44] <drubin> it is for me
[18:44] <MichealH> GMT=UTC-1?!?
[18:44] <drubin> maybe you guys with your daylight savings times and stuff mess it up :)
[18:44] <popey> heh
[18:44] <MichealH> Yup
[18:44] <popey> where does it say that MichealH ?
[18:44] <MichealH> :)
[18:44] <popey> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar got it
[18:45] <MichealH> at the very bottom of the schedule
[18:45] <drubin> no ways it said 20:00 (utc+2) for me a while ago
[18:45] <MichealH> I remember seeing it as 9pm my time now its 8pm?
[18:45] <BlackZ> MichealH: hint: fix your nick in the table
[18:45] <drubin> popey: surely no one actually updated the calendar.. and even more so to make it wrong
[18:46] <popey> i have just aked for it to be changed
[18:46] <MichealH> Change to 8pm-9pm
[18:46] <drubin> popey: So is the meeting at 20:00 or at 19:00
[18:46] <MichealH> :D
[18:46] <popey> its 20:00 UTC!
[18:46] <popey> as per the wiki page :)
[18:46] <MichealH> 21:00 BST!
[18:46] <popey> yes
[18:46] <drubin> Just making sure all this confusion  is confusing
[18:46] <popey> confusing popey is confusing
[18:47] <MichealH> No its Confusing of Confusing of Confusing
[18:47] <MichealH> :)
[18:47] <drubin> goes to find some dinner and sort out loco stuff before the meeting
[18:47]  * MichealH makes notes 0.5x the speed
[18:47] <MichealH> No need to rush now :)
[18:48] <MichealH> drubin You applied?
[18:49] <MichealH> popey: Is it ok to point to my website for my memebrship stuff too.
[18:49] <drubin> MichealH: yes
[18:50] <popey> we prefer personal wiki pages
[18:50] <drubin> MichealH: No I am on the board
[18:50] <popey> which link to launchpad, forums, etc
[18:50] <drubin> popey: He said as well.
[18:50] <MichealH> I have both :D Well Prepared
[18:50] <popey> but links to other sites that backup your membership are good too
[18:50] <popey> drubin: i can read :)
[18:50] <MichealH> When do we find out who got in?
[18:51] <popey> you attend and we generally tell you there and then
[18:51] <MichealH> So if you all said +1 for example then I may be in
[18:52]  * MichealH makes notes better.
[18:53] <MichealH> drubin: Who else is on the board?
[18:53] <drubin> MichealH: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-emea/+members
[18:54] <MichealH> Is it Ubuntu Members get selected to be on the board?
[18:55] <popey> yes
[18:55] <MichealH> popey: I see where you nick comes from ;)
[18:55] <popey> Dont mention spinach
[18:56] <MichealH> Why would I mention spinach Im responsable
[18:56] <MichealH> ;)
[18:57] <MichealH> I have some good comments on my PM's if I put them In my Wiki/Site would they be considered?
[18:59] <drubin> popey: Is that list on the wiki still valid? like people from 24th of march
[18:59] <ttx> ...
[18:59] <kirkland> o/
[18:59] <mathiaz> o/
[18:59] <Daviey> \o
[18:59] <MichealH> I think tey are looking at the logs I have seen they were unsuccesful
[18:59] <hggdh> ~o~
[19:00] <popey> drubin we should leave, other meeting starting
[19:00] <alexm> o/
[19:00] <MichealH> popey hows about ubuntu-offtopic? ;)
[19:00] <ttx> popey: you can stay if you want :)
[19:00] <popey> drubin: MichealH join #ubuntu-emea-board
[19:01] <zul> hi
[19:01] <jiboumans> good morning
[19:01] <smoser> o/
[19:02] <jiboumans> #startmeeting
[19:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is jiboumans.
[19:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:02] <jiboumans> thanks all for joining
[19:02] <ttx> niemeyer: o/
[19:02] <jiboumans> scribe today will be ttx, thanks for volunteering
[19:02] <niemeyer> Yo!
[19:02] <niemeyer> :-)
[19:02] <ttx> yay yay
[19:02] <sommer> o//
[19:03] <jiboumans> experiencing a bit of lag with irc, sorry for the delay
[19:03] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Action points from the last meeting
[19:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action points from the last meeting
[19:04] <jiboumans> sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs
[19:04] <sommer> done :)
[19:04] <jiboumans> awesome :)
[19:04] <jiboumans> ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names
[19:04] <jiboumans> sommer++
[19:04] <ttx> done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
[19:04] <jiboumans> ttx++
[19:04] <jiboumans> no other actions outstanding afaik
[19:04] <ccheney> hello
[19:04] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
[19:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
[19:05] <halvors> hi!
[19:05] <jiboumans> as you all know, we've just kicked off the maverick dev cycle
[19:05] <halvors> When was the meeting today?
[19:05] <jiboumans> and we've got alpha1 isos coming up
[19:05] <mathiaz> halvors: are you referring to the EMEA board meeting?
[19:05] <jiboumans> ttx, that's your topic i believe
[19:05] <mathiaz> halvors: if so - it was 2 hours ago
[19:05] <ttx> yes, we have deliverables up at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all
[19:06] <mathiaz> halvors: this is now the Ubuntu Server team meeting
[19:06] <ttx> I smoketested yesterdays ISO, it seems to work, filed a bug that got fixed since
[19:06] <halvors> the africa/europe meeting
[19:06] <halvors> 20:00 UTC
[19:06] <ttx> the main issue being the oversized CDs, will come back to that later
[19:06] <halvors> it was 2 hours ago ?
[19:06] <ttx> so please run some ISO testing coverage
[19:06] <Daviey> halvors: 20:00 UTC is in 2 hours.
[19:07] <halvors> yes
[19:07] <ttx> smoser: we don't havce cloud images yet
[19:07] <halvors> then it is 10:00
[19:07] <jiboumans> [ACTION] all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha1
[19:07] <smoser> ew don't ?
[19:07] <halvors> for me
[19:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha1
[19:07] <ttx> smoser: not on the tracker, at least
[19:07] <smoser> ah.
[19:07] <smoser> ok.
[19:07] <mathiaz> halvors: may be - we're in the middle of another meeting now - I'd suggest to come back when the meeting board is running
[19:07] <jiboumans> [ACTION] smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker
[19:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker
[19:07] <ttx> we don't need 100% coverage for alphaµ1, but the more the merrier
[19:08] <ttx> that's all.
[19:08] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)
[19:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)
[19:08] <ttx> (we are in soft freeze btw, so don't land anything massive)
[19:08] <ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html
[19:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html
[19:08] <mathiaz> ttx: are the images registered in the iso tracker?
[19:08] <mathiaz> ttx: alpha1 images?
[19:08] <ttx> mathiaz: define "images"
[19:09] <mathiaz> ttx: hm - isos
[19:09] <ttx> mathiaz: yes
[19:09] <ttx> Ubuntu Server amd64 (20100601.1)
[19:09] <ttx> Ubuntu Server i386 (20100601.1)
[19:09] <mathiaz> ttx: hm - I haven't received the standard email though
[19:09] <jiboumans> the above link is 'the' place where we track progress on our specs, so please remember to keep your work items and Status: line updated in the blueprints. For the howto, please see:
[19:09] <ttx> mathiaz: me neither
[19:09] <jiboumans> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[19:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[19:10] <ttx> Please also update status for your specs, ideally before the meeting
[19:10] <mathiaz> ttx: that should be fixed
[19:10] <mathiaz> ttx: as this is how I get notified about new isos needed testing
[19:10] <ttx> mathiaz: ping ara about it, maybe it's a one-time alpha1 special
[19:10] <ttx> Status updating is done by updating the "Status" section in the whiteboard
[19:10] <ttx> I've set it to "Not updated yet" across the board
[19:11] <jiboumans> same procedure as lucid, so nothing new to learn here
[19:11]  * SpamapS just realized that meant the Status: for the work itesm tracker, and not the blueprint status.. :-P
[19:11] <jiboumans> remember to keep it updated; MONDAY EOB at the latest
[19:11] <ttx> SpamapS: I was reiterating for you :)
[19:11] <jiboumans> ttx: any particular specs that need attention right now?
[19:12] <ttx> jiboumans: server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
[19:12] <SpamapS> ttx: ty
[19:12] <ttx> needs some work separation between smoser and jjohansen
[19:12] <ttx> and a more detailed work items plan
[19:12] <jiboumans> ttx: jjohansen is on vacation this week, so we should follow up by email as well
[19:12] <ttx> jiboumans: yep
[19:12] <jiboumans> smoser, can you take that on?
[19:12] <ttx> otherwise none of the prio1 specs have work items burnt yet
[19:13] <smoser> i pinged with jjohansen today. he's aware of the spec.  i will follow up.
[19:13] <jiboumans> [ACTION] smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
[19:13] <jiboumans> ttx: any others?
[19:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
[19:13] <ttx> no, let's get items burnt !
[19:13] <ttx> (as an aside, i'll reset the trends line tomorrow)
[19:13] <jiboumans> ok, i'd like to look at 4 specs quickly though;
[19:13] <ttx> (so please get your work items in before :)
[19:14] <jiboumans> ivoks, roaksoax, scottk: mail & cluster stack look in great shape. I've asked in the whiteboard to seperate items out for before & after feature freeze though to help us track things
[19:15] <jiboumans> sommer, ttx, mathiaz: i wanted to double check you're happy with the docs spec as is now
[19:15] <ScottK> OK.
[19:15] <jiboumans> the review's extensive with feedback requests and it'd be great if we could mark those off
[19:15] <sommer> I think I addressed the comments on that one, but if not let me know
[19:15] <jiboumans> sommer: it looks good to me too, just verifying before i set it to 'approved'
[19:16] <sommer> coolio
[19:16] <ttx> jiboumans: also note that the specs fully assigned to hggdh don't appear in the chart
[19:16] <ttx> since they appear in canonical-qa instead
[19:16] <jiboumans> ttx: let's follow up with pitti to figure out how we can have them show up
[19:16] <jiboumans> alright, let's move on
[19:17] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[19:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[19:17] <mathiaz> server-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me
[19:17] <ttx> stgraber: haven't seen a spice spec, mjeanson wanted to file one ?
[19:17] <hggdh> bug 565101 has been verified, should go to -updates as soon as possible
[19:17] <ttx> server-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me
[19:17] <jiboumans> sommer: you may need to reformat the 'work items:' line as it expects a milestone after it if anything
[19:18] <sommer> ah, will do
[19:19] <hggdh> additionally, I have done a quick test of bug 586134, and seems to work with 512 loop devices configured
[19:19] <jiboumans> hggdh: the previous number was... 256?
[19:19] <hggdh> jiboumans: the previous was 32
[19:19] <jiboumans> heh
[19:20] <jiboumans> any other questions for hggdh/QA?
[19:20] <kirkland> hggdh: i'll get an SRU out, as soon as the current one in proposed (for 6 weeks) gets promoted
[19:20] <ttx> hggdh: haven't looked into the -community and -qa-workflow specs, did you start with them ?
[19:21] <mathiaz> kirkland: what's required to get the one in -proposed copied to -updates?
[19:21] <jiboumans> hggdh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-qa-workflow should probably have it's gobby notes moved to a wikispec instead
[19:21] <kirkland> hggdh: i think you had a todo of verifying one of them as fixed, so that the promotion could take place
[19:21] <kirkland> mathiaz: These bugs need to be fix-verified:
[19:21] <hggdh> kirkland: I verified it, should I change a tag there?
[19:21] <kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/565101
[19:21] <kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/567371
[19:21] <kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/566793
[19:22] <kirkland> hggdh: i stand corrected ... you updated the bug on May 28
[19:22] <mathiaz> hggdh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[19:22] <mathiaz> hggdh: ^^ there is a section about verification
[19:22] <hggdh> mathiaz: thanks
[19:22] <mathiaz> hggdh: once the verification has been done, tags should be updated
[19:22] <smoser> kirkland, 566793 is either not "fixed" or caused regression.
[19:23] <smoser> see most recent comments there.
[19:23] <kirkland> smoser: that's very troubling
[19:23] <Daviey> bug #566793
[19:23] <kirkland> smoser: i see your comment there
[19:24] <kirkland> this is getting complicated, as we have several more eucalyptus SRUs queued
[19:25] <kirkland> jiboumans: i'm not sure what else to say about this
[19:25] <jiboumans> kirkland: should we move this to a different forum?
[19:25] <kirkland> jiboumans: sure
[19:25] <jiboumans> kirkland: alright, let's move on
[19:26] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[19:26] <jiboumans> jjohansen is not with us today, so any questions will be relayed through notes/email
[19:26] <ttx> (from jjohansen) No progress on pv-ops yet due to vacation
[19:26] <jiboumans> anything pressing that needs to be on the kernel teams radar?
[19:26] <ttx> I raised bug 587893
[19:26] <ttx> -virtual takes up the same size as -server now
[19:26] <SpamapS> jiboumans: the recent ptrace restrictions are troubling to me..
[19:26] <ttx> resulting in an oversized server ISO
[19:27] <jiboumans> SpamapS: could you elaborate?
[19:27] <ttx> it's on the kernel team radar, rtg is looking at it
[19:27] <SpamapS> jiboumans: from an ops standpoint, not being able to attach to mysqld/httpd/etc would be disastrous
[19:27] <jiboumans> SpamapS: i wasn't aware of any changes in that area. what are you referring to exactly?
[19:27] <ttx> My understanding is atht it's just a sysctl away ?
[19:28] <SpamapS> jiboumans: it was relayed to ubuntu-devel recently, processes won't be able to ptrace anything that isn't their direct child
[19:28] <SpamapS> jiboumans: there will be a sysctl, yes
[19:28] <ttx> /proc/sys/kernel/ptrace_scope
[19:29] <ttx> SpamapS: you should bring your concerns to the thread
[19:29] <SpamapS> +1 for security, -10 for operational efficiency. I'm not sure if its worth being on by default.
[19:29] <jiboumans> SpamapS: if there's no way to debug properly in your opinoin with this change, we should take it up on the list
[19:29] <mathiaz> SpamapS: if you have any concerns, make sure to let it be known in the thread
[19:29] <SpamapS> yes I think I'll do that.
[19:29] <jiboumans> SpamapS: consider this encouragement to do exactly that :)
[19:29] <ttx> discussing them here won't help very much, it's outside the reach of our team anyway
[19:29] <jiboumans> any other questions/issues around the kernel?
[19:30] <ttx> SpamapS: we could agree to unset it on "servers" but I'm not sure I want to have that discussion again
[19:30] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[19:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[19:30] <jiboumans> sommer: o/
[19:31] <sommer> not sure I have much... Lucid serverguide PDF is available on h.u.c
[19:31] <ttx> sommer: could you present new sections for which you'll need input from us at some point ?
[19:31] <jiboumans> sommer: if you don't have 'm prepped, adding them to next weeks meeting also works. I'd like to make sure you have all the input you need to move forward
[19:32] <sommer> sure, that may be a good goal for the next meeting
[19:32] <ttx> sommer: great, thanks
[19:32] <jiboumans> [ACTION] sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team
[19:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team
[19:32] <jiboumans> thanks sommer
[19:33] <jiboumans> any questions about the docs?
[19:33] <sommer> don't think so
[19:33] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)
[19:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)
[19:33] <ttx> Nomination period for alpha2 subcycle is not over
[19:33] <ttx> The nominations for the papercuts alpha2 subcycle are here: http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations
[19:33] <ttx> We had a target of 16 bugs for that cycle
[19:34] <ttx> only 14 bugs nominated
[19:34] <ttx> so that should make an easy cut
[19:34] <ttx> You still have time for last minute nominations...
[19:34] <ttx> Please have a look at the list off-meeting and let me know if anything there should not be a papercut
[19:35] <ttx> otherwise I'll take them all :)
[19:35] <ttx> You can also assign yourself to those you're interested in
[19:35] <jiboumans> [ACTION] all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts
[19:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts
[19:35] <ttx> after that, I'll start randomly assigning them to people :)
[19:35] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
[19:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
[19:35] <jiboumans> thanks ttx
[19:36] <mathiaz> two bugs have been nominated: bug 585110
[19:36] <mathiaz> bug 585522
[19:36] <ttx> (note: i'll close the alpha2-papercuts list tomorrow morning, so nominations should be done today EOB)
[19:37] <jiboumans> ttx: can you send out a last call to the mailing list too?
[19:37] <ttx> jiboumans: I think it's too late for that. A call with the deadline was in yesterdays ubuntu weekly news
[19:37] <mathiaz> I think both bugs should be declined as they fit the SRU critiria
[19:37] <hggdh> mathiaz: I think 585522 should not be nominated
[19:37] <ttx> theoretically the deadline was... this meeting
[19:38] <jiboumans> ttx: that works too :)
[19:38] <ttx> since we are not as 14, I give a few extra minutes to the meeting crowd :)
[19:38] <ttx> not at 16, I mean
[19:38] <ttx> mathiaz: ack
[19:39] <mathiaz> anything worth on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html?
[19:39] <zul> the mtx bug
[19:39] <ttx> bug 551901 is already under way, I pushed it today
[19:39] <mathiaz> zul: for an SRU?
[19:40] <zul> mathiaz: yes
[19:40] <mathiaz> zul: it's annoying - not the end of the world
[19:40] <ttx> I'm with mathiaz here
[19:40] <zul> okies
[19:41] <ttx> zul: there are far more interesting SRUs to push :)
[19:41] <zul> ttx: heh
[19:41] <mathiaz> anything else worth SRUing?
[19:41] <SpamapS> bug 293258 seems worth SRU given that it may have security implications.
[19:41] <mathiaz> from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[19:41] <zul> SpamapS: i dont know the implications of pushing that back to lucid
[19:41] <mathiaz> SpamapS: if it has security implication than the security team should handle it
[19:41] <kirkland> mathiaz: there are 2 eucalyptus bugs
[19:42] <kirkland> mathiaz: as mentioned before, sort of blocked on getting the lucid-proposed eucalyptus promoted to lucid-updates
[19:42] <ttx> kirkland: I suspect you already nominated them for Lucid ?
[19:42] <kirkland> ttx: yup
[19:42] <ttx> kirkland: then you're good :)
[19:42] <mathiaz> SpamapS: the security team seems to be aware of the bug
[19:43] <mathiaz> on the topic of the sru process, zul has been working on the implementation
[19:43] <SpamapS> mmk. :)
[19:43] <jiboumans> zul++
[19:43] <jiboumans> mathiaz, zul, anything to show publicly yet?
[19:43] <mathiaz> so I think we'll be able to move to the new process soon
[19:44] <zul> sure: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
[19:44] <mathiaz> jiboumans: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
[19:44] <ttx> mathiaz/zul: would be good to see some action on the work items for sru-process, then :P
[19:44] <jiboumans> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
[19:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
[19:44] <jiboumans> also that: ^ ;)
[19:44] <zul> ttx: yeah sorry
[19:44] <mathiaz> zul: are your scripts available in a bzr branch somewhere?
[19:44] <zul> mathiaz: not yet they will be
[19:45] <mathiaz> zul: ok - could you please push them as soon as possible?
[19:45] <mathiaz> zul: release early, release often :)
[19:45] <zul> of course
[19:45] <mathiaz> that's all for the SRU review
[19:45] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[19:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[19:45] <jiboumans> any other business?
[19:45] <hggdh> yes
[19:46] <sommer> this spec https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-openldap-dit approval ?
[19:46] <hggdh> I have tested ebs with EtienneG's UEC rig, but we will need our own
[19:47] <Daviey> hggdh: we might be able to organise timeshare in OEM's rig.
[19:47] <mathiaz> sommer: you don't need to have approval to start working on a spec ;)
[19:47] <mathiaz> sommer: the WI look good
[19:47] <hggdh> Daviey: good. We will have to be careful, though, I just blew EtienneG's rig to space
[19:47] <jiboumans> sommer: i think you took care of the feedback, so let me hit the Button(tm)
[19:47] <jiboumans> but yes,it's approved
[19:47] <sommer> mathiaz: I know, but just wanted to get some time of official nod
[19:47] <EtienneG> zul, has the iSCSI target question came up earlier?  (sorry, was not paying much attention)
[19:47] <Daviey> gilir: destruction testing++
[19:48] <zul> EtienneG: no it hasnt
[19:48] <EtienneG> hggdh, good to know!
[19:48] <sommer> jiboumans: thanks :)
[19:48] <mathiaz> sommer: seems like jiboumans is about to hit the magic button!
[19:48] <hggdh> EtienneG: oh, sorry, I did not tell you? ;-)
[19:48] <EtienneG> zul, ok then, I am bringing it up then
[19:48] <zul> EtienneG: now would be a good time to bring it up ;)
[19:48] <EtienneG> hggdh, well, yes, over the week-end, right?
[19:48] <jiboumans> sommer: you're the assignee as well right?
[19:49] <sommer> yeppers
[19:49] <hggdh> EtienneG: right
[19:49] <jiboumans> sommer: targeted for A3 as it needs to be done before Feature Freeze
[19:49] <EtienneG> jiboumans, I vaguely remember the matter iSCSI target came up during the seed review at UDS-M, but somehow it is nowhere to be found in the Gobby doc
[19:50] <EtienneG> basically, we discussed if an iSCSI target in main would be desirable, and which
[19:50] <ccheney> there were some problems with gobby notes being lost, i don't know if that included partial loss though
[19:50] <jiboumans> EtienneG: i remember the thread on the mailing list
[19:50] <EtienneG> the consensus seems to be around tgt, which has an iSCSI target daemon
[19:50] <mathiaz> EtienneG: do you have a specific suggestion?
[19:50] <EtienneG> jiboumans, was it discussed at UDS, or I am smoking crack?
[19:50] <mathiaz> EtienneG: is tgt the best option for now?
[19:51] <EtienneG> mathiaz, tgt would be the best option for me, yes
[19:51] <jiboumans> EtienneG: like i said, i dont remember it at UDS (then again, i wasnt in all conversations), but i do recall the thread on the list
[19:51] <zul> EtienneG: i remeber talking to you about it after the session
[19:51] <EtienneG> people suggested SCST, but it is not packaged yet
[19:51] <jiboumans> EtienneG: the part i do remember is Eucalytpus folks saying they need one as well
[19:51] <ttx> istr we discussed it during euca-next-steps
[19:51] <kirkland> mathiaz: EtienneG: tgt is what we're pursuing for UEC/Eucalyptus
[19:51] <EtienneG> zul, that must be it
[19:51] <EtienneG> jiboumans, and unless I am mistaken, they have settled on tgt
[19:51] <jiboumans> kirkland: is it a fair target for the UEC specs or should this go Elsewhere
[19:52] <kirkland> jiboumans: UEC is probably fine
[19:52] <kirkland> jiboumans: i'll add a work item
[19:52] <jiboumans> kirkland++ thanks
[19:52] <kirkland> [ccheney] MIR tgt: TODO
[19:52] <ccheney> kirkland, ok :)
[19:52] <jiboumans> ok, any other other business?
[19:52] <EtienneG> tgt needs an upstart job, there is already bug and I assigned it to zul
[19:53] <jiboumans> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[19:53] <jiboumans> Next meeting is: Tuesday June 8th at 18:00 UTC
[19:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[19:53] <jiboumans> thanks all for attending
[19:53] <ttx> \o/
[19:53] <jiboumans> #endmeeting
[19:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:53.
[19:53] <mathiaz> o/
[19:53] <EtienneG> \o
[19:53] <sommer> o//
[19:53]  * EtienneG high five
[19:53] <mathiaz> EtienneG: o^34
[19:54] <EtienneG> mathiaz, you'll have to explain that one ...
[19:54] <hggdh> ~o~
[19:54] <mathiaz> EtienneG: o^5 : high - five
[20:28] <legreffier> hello here :)
[20:36] <HardDisk> tell me the meeting is not over :/
[20:36] <HardDisk> EMEA membership that is...
[20:37] <BlackZ> HardDisk: it will start at 20:00 UTC
[20:37] <HardDisk> ah good
[20:37] <HardDisk> cause im in cairo, and just got back :)
[20:38] <HardDisk> if I missed it, that'd be the 2nd time I miss it.
[20:38] <andrejz> it starts in 20 minutes, I am waiting for it too ;)
[20:38] <HardDisk> well andrejz good luck to you.
[20:39] <andrejz> thanks, good luck to you too
[20:40] <halvors> yes, i will become member so please support me with votes ;)
[20:41] <MichealH> halvors, Like your determination
[20:41] <Dice-Man> hello
[20:41] <HardDisk> I will def become a member due to all the efforts made this year.
[20:42] <MichealH> Dice-Man, Hi
[20:42] <Dice-Man> does everybody here can vote ?
[20:42] <MichealH> HardDisk, Good Luck
[20:42] <MichealH> Dice-Man, No only the Board people?
[20:42] <HardDisk> thanks, but don't need it :)
[20:42] <MichealH> I dont either HardDisk
[20:42] <HardDisk> I'm that confident.
[20:42] <MichealH> so am I!
[20:42] <HardDisk> lol
[20:43] <halvors> yes i think
[20:44] <legreffier> BlackZ: agenda says 21utc
[20:44] <legreffier> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?highlight=(CategoryCommunityCouncil)
[20:44] <legreffier> did i got it wrong?
[20:44] <BlackZ> it's another meeting
[20:44] <drubin> legreffier: they are talking about the EMEA ubuntu membership board meeting
[20:44] <legreffier> oh my bad then
[20:45] <HardDisk> yes you're very bad then :)
[20:45] <legreffier> HardDisk: just to tell you once again who's bad.
[20:46] <McPeter> hi
[20:46] <MichealH> .action Thanks his iPod for remininng mo of this meeting
[20:46] <MichealH> Argh Me Extension
[20:46] <MichealH> :@
[20:47] <MichealH> It keeps shorting
[20:47] <MichealH> Hi McPeter
[20:47] <MichealH> You here for the EMEA Meeting?
[20:48] <McPeter> to support legreffier :)
[20:48] <MichealH> Yay \o/ Support me ;)
[20:48]  * legreffier hugs McPeter 
[20:48] <MichealH> Im more imortant
[20:48] <legreffier> and MichealH too.
[20:48] <MichealH> ;)
[20:48] <HardDisk> I msgd some people to support me, guess Im on my own today.
[20:49] <MichealH> I am too HardDisk I asked VBroummond but seems he not here
[20:49] <MichealH> Nightwiashfan on the forums
[20:49] <MichealH> Got a few testimonials You?
[20:50] <MichealH> Just signed in on me iPod :) Just to keep up Yay
[20:50] <MichealH_> heh
[20:51] <Dice-Man> michealH the Board people ?
[20:51] <Dice-Man> was a joke ?
[20:51] <MichealH_> Board people?
[20:51] <czajkowski> /c/c
[20:51] <MichealH> Dice-Man, Im MichealH_
[20:52] <MichealH> Just om me mobile device :)
[20:52] <MichealH> Dice-Man, czajkowski is a board person Is that what u were talking bout
[20:53] <Dice-Man> what is a board person ?
[20:53] <Dice-Man> you mean staffer ?
[20:53] <MichealH> They sort of control the meeting
[20:53] <MichealH> They are the Simnon cowells of this channel
[20:53] <MichealH> They judge us
[20:53] <HardDisk> let me go to the bathroom real quick :)
[20:54] <MichealH> Me too Plz Plzzzzz!
[20:54] <MichealH> I will be real quick
[20:54] <Dice-Man> ok MichealH thanks
[20:55] <MichealH_> mp
[20:55] <MichealH_> np
[20:55] <highvoltage> EMEA Regional Board meeting in about 5 minutes
[20:55] <MichealH_> 6mijs and counting
[20:56] <MichealH_> what is it about touchscreens?
[20:56] <MichealH_> Hi Sind
[20:56] <MichealH> *dinda
[20:57] <MichealH_> 3 mins oh the pressure :S
[20:58] <Seveaz> MichealH_: during the meeting, please do not stray off topic
[20:58] <MichealH_> I agree
[20:58] <HardDisk> hi Seveaz, I'm here this time :)
[20:58] <HardDisk> and fully prepared.
[20:59] <MichealH> I seveaz Rawr
[20:59] <MichealH> oj
[20:59] <MichealH_> We waiting for popey?
[20:59] <Seveaz> popey, czajkowski, highvoltage, ogra, stgraber, drubin: it is time.
[20:59] <highvoltage> o/
[20:59] <czajkowski> Aloha
[20:59] <drubin> o/
[20:59] <MichealH_> Nice way to call people
[21:00] <popey> hullo
[21:00] <highvoltage> this is our first meeting as the new new board right?
[21:00] <Seveaz> it is
[21:00] <drubin> highvoltage: yes
[21:00] <popey> yup
[21:00] <czajkowski> aye :)
[21:00] <MichealH> Hi!
[21:00] <highvoltage> awesome.
[21:01] <MichealH> Cool
[21:01] <MichealH_> hehe
[21:01] <Seveaz> hmm, webchat doesn't show idle time
[21:01] <Seveaz> can someone please check idle time on ogra/stgraber?
[21:01] <MichealH> I will
[21:01] <andrejz> hello everyone!
[21:01] <highvoltage> Seveaz: stgraber is out of the office today, so I guess he won't be able to make it
[21:01] <MichealH> 07:18
[21:01] <halvors> hallo
[21:02] <Seveaz> ok
[21:02] <czajkowski> ogra: is idle 7mins
[21:02] <highvoltage> (we should exchange new phone numbers afterwards again for sms purposes)
[21:02] <Seveaz> good plan.
[21:02] <MichealH> stgraber, 144 hours
[21:02] <ogra_cmpc> czajkowski, nah, i'm hiding here :)
[21:02] <Seveaz> ah!
[21:03] <popey> heh
[21:03] <MichealH> Ahah
[21:03] <Seveaz> ok, let's begin
[21:03] <MichealH> Whoo!
[21:03] <czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: *mutters* :p
[21:03] <Seveaz> michaelh: please keep chatter to a minimum
[21:03] <MichealH> Ok
[21:03] <HardDisk> I'm ready to go first if no one minds.
[21:03] <Seveaz> I don't know whether the new board members are familiar with the structure of the meetings
[21:04] <halvors> should we start the meeting=
[21:04] <halvors> ?
[21:04] <drubin> czajkowski: thanks for cleaning up the wiki, and on that point I think we should ask some one todo it straight after this meeting to make it easier
[21:04] <MichealH> I will go next
[21:04] <Seveaz> HardDisk: please wait.
[21:04] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:04] <popey> We go in order of that page
[21:04] <Seveaz> so for all new board members: we essentially go through that list in order and make people introduce themselves
[21:04] <ogra_cmpc> Seveas, not with the current structure, its been a few years i did that last :)
[21:04] <Seveaz> then we read wikipage/launchpad page/other "evidence" and vote
[21:04] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: it hasn't changed much
[21:04] <Seveaz> ogra, it's pretty similar to CC :)
[21:04] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[21:05] <Seveaz> so, let's begin with candidate no. 1: ronnietucker
[21:05] <Seveaz> Ronnie, please introduce yourself
[21:05] <MichealH> Ronnie Idletime: 1 hour?
[21:05] <ronnietucker> Hi! I'm Ronnie Tucker the editor of Full Circle magazine which has been running for over three years now
[21:05] <Seveaz> MichealH: sst.
[21:06] <ronnietucker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RonnieTucker
[21:06] <Seveaz> ronnietucker: you've been here a few months ago as well, have you?
[21:06] <popey> he missed the last meeting iirc Seveaz
[21:06]  * ogra_cmpc is impressed by that wikipage
[21:06] <czajkowski> wow nice set of testimonials.
[21:06] <highvoltage> yes, he was on the agenda for the lastmeeting but couldn't make it
[21:07] <czajkowski> I beleive that was the issue the last time, ther weren't any
[21:07] <Seveaz> yes, I recall that as well
[21:07] <Seveaz> that's evidently been fixed
[21:07] <highvoltage> It's an interesting case since his work wasn't in Ubuntu itself, but imho he's clearly been representing the Ubuntu community and doing great work at promoting it and spreading knowledge over the past few years
[21:08] <popey> indeed, I've been watching and reading fullcircle over the years, and ronnietucker has steered that ship well in that time
[21:08] <highvoltage> ronnietucker: do you have any future plans or other areas that you plan to work on some day?
[21:08] <halvors> Should we vote for RonnieTrucker or?
[21:08] <Seveaz> halvors: only board members vote.
[21:09] <halvors> yes i know
[21:09] <ronnietucker> I intend to continually refine Full Circle to make it better each and every month
[21:09] <MichealH> Seveaz, Can we ask questions?
[21:09] <popey> ronnietucker: there's also the full circle podcast now to compliment the magazine
[21:09] <highvoltage> MichealH: board members can ask questions now, basically you can contribute input if you know ronnietucker, otherwise you should just remain quiet until it's your turn
[21:09] <ronnietucker> indeed
[21:10] <MichealH> highvoltage, Ok
[21:10] <HardDisk> ronnietucker, if you stick around for my part, I actually have a part written that talks about you.
[21:10] <ronnietucker> uh oh ;)
[21:10] <HardDisk> trust me it's good :)
[21:11] <drubin> ronnietucker: Any plans to be more involved with your loco?
[21:11] <Seveaz> Ok, I'm +1. Full Circle is a good contribution to the ubuntu community
[21:11] <highvoltage> also +1
[21:11] <drubin> Either way +1 from my side
[21:11] <czajkowski> +1 also based on the promotion of Ubuntu
[21:11] <popey> yeah, I'm easily +1, it's been consistent over the years.
[21:11] <ogra_cmpc> a clear +1 from here too
[21:12] <Seveaz> need to get used to the new team, have we all voted?
[21:12] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[21:12] <HardDisk> congratulations :)
[21:12] <ogra_cmpc> Seveas, even if we didnt, thats surely a vast majority :)
[21:12] <Seveaz> yes, we all voted
[21:13] <ronnietucker> Thank you all!
[21:13] <popey> adding to ubuntumembers
[21:13] <Seveaz> congrats ronnietucker!
[21:13] <czajkowski> ronnietucker: congrats and welcome :)
[21:13] <highvoltage> ronnietucker: congratulations and welcom
[21:13] <highvoltage> e
[21:13] <popey> done
[21:13] <czajkowski> Seveaz: next time can we use MootBot :) please
[21:13] <ogra_cmpc> congrats and thanks for all that work :)
[21:13] <drubin> ronnietucker: welcome aboard
[21:13] <vish> Seveaz: probably the bot and voting would be easier to keep track
[21:13]  * czajkowski is editing the wiki atm 
[21:13] <legreffier> congrats and one pound shoeslaces to you ronnietucker
[21:13] <halvors> congratulations ronnie ;)
[21:13] <MichealH> ronnietucker, Well Done!
[21:13] <McPeter> congrats ronnietucker
[21:13] <Seveaz> czajkowski: if mootbot allows us to restrict votes to the team: why not
[21:13] <popey> congrats ronnietucker
[21:13]  * popey notes czajkowski voting to chair the next meeting :)
[21:13] <HardDisk> mabrook ronnie
[21:13] <Seveaz> next up: halvors. Please iintroduce yourself to the board
[21:14] <czajkowski> popey: shhhhh I'm new :p
[21:14] <Seveaz> popey: I'd +1 that :)
[21:14]  * ogra_cmpc grins
[21:14] <czajkowski> halvors: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors
[21:14] <czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: you're next buddy!
[21:14] <ogra_cmpc> haha
[21:14] <halvors> I am halovrs, from Norway, i work for The OpenRcon Project, and transelate Ubuntu into my countrys language ;)
[21:15] <halvors> And my wiki site: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors ;)
[21:15] <halvors> oh sorry...
[21:15] <czajkowski> halvors: your wiki is very bare
[21:15] <halvors> i know sorry :(
[21:15] <Seveaz> I'm going for instant -1 because there is nothing to go on on that wikipage. halvors please make sure your wikipage is prepared before the meeting so we can actually verify your contributions.
[21:15] <halvors> ok
[21:15] <czajkowski> halvors: you dont have any testimonials, nor any information on the work  you['ve done or plan to do, so I'm sorry it's going to be a -1
[21:16] <highvoltage> -1 [ incomplete proposal and insufficient evidence of any sustained contributions ]
[21:16] <popey> I agree with Seveaz, -1, we need detail on the wiki page which outlines your contributions to the project.
[21:16] <drubin> I am also going for a -1 for now.
[21:16] <highvoltage> halvors: please refer to the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[21:16] <ogra_cmpc> your work sounds intresting but you need to put it into a rather bigger presentation for next meeting
[21:16] <halvors> Ok, i know the Ubuntu community dont need me :(
[21:16] <Seveaz> halvors: that's not true at all
[21:17] <ogra_cmpc> halvors, thats not true
[21:17] <drubin> halvors: We are just postoning membership right now. We value every ones contributions
[21:17] <czajkowski> halvors: not at all, if you need a hand with your wiki creation give me a shout and I'll help you
[21:17] <Seveaz> translation work is more than welcome, and you have some karma there so you do work. However, it is difficult for us to verify your work if you don't document it and collect testimonials from others
[21:17] <halvors> i have been here before, last meeting at Asia board i got the same reply :(
[21:17] <ogra_cmpc> halvors, its just that we need to judge based on these wikipages, i find you very intresting and would really appreciate if you came back next time with a bit more fleshed out wiki
[21:17] <highvoltage> halvors: our job is to review your application for membership, that's quite hard to do without an application
[21:17] <czajkowski> halvors: after the meeting would you like a hand ?
[21:18] <halvors> so what should i have in the wiki?
[21:18] <halvors> work, etc
[21:18] <popey> halvors: czajkowski will help after the meeting
[21:18] <halvors> what more?
[21:18] <czajkowski> halvors: after the meeting please
[21:18] <Seveaz> halvors: sorry, we have to continue the meeting now, please talk to czajkowski afterwards
[21:18] <Seveaz> andrejz: you're up
[21:18] <andrejz> ok
[21:19] <andrejz> i am andrej from slovenia, my wiki is here
[21:19] <halvors> Sorry, but i am some busy, but maybe we can talk here tomorow?
[21:19] <andrejz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrejZnidarsic
[21:19] <halvors> ok
[21:19] <halvors> i understand :)
[21:19] <czajkowski> andrejz: is there anyone in here to support you today ?
[21:19] <halvors> Se you tomorrow :)
[21:19] <andrejz> as you can see i am mostly involved in translation into slovenian language, where i am one of the core members of gnome translation team,
[21:20] <Seveaz> that's an impressive amount of translations
[21:20] <czajkowski> halvors: see pm
[21:20] <Seveaz> are you leading the ubuntu slovenian translators team?
[21:20] <andrejz> no, i am on my own, but statistics says a lot, i believe
[21:20] <MichealH> 2 tick I need to sign out me lag is terrible
[21:20] <andrejz> well, we are in the phase of transition
[21:20]  * popey hugs chrome auto-translate from slovenian to english
[21:21] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[21:21] <Seveaz> andrejz: what kind of transition?
[21:21] <andrejz> the previos leader is slowly stepping down and i am replacing him
[21:21] <andrejz> but there wasn't really any team before
[21:21] <Seveaz> andrejz: that's an interesting phase.
[21:22] <andrejz> of course people were members of the group, but there wasn't any communication between team members, or any organization
[21:22] <czajkowski> andrejz: so what do you see in the future for your LoCo ?
[21:22] <andrejz> or at least organized communication - of course i contacted a translator which was translating the same package as me, but nothing was organized
[21:23] <andrejz> well, there are a couple of people there, which are attempting to get an official LoCo set up
[21:23] <andrejz> and i am helping out a little bit with ideas on IRC
[21:23] <Seveaz> andrejz: I like the work you're doing, but I'm going for -1. I'd like some comments on your wikipage from other members of your locoteam, other than that it looks good
[21:23] <andrejz> i write linux/opensource/ubuntu news to educate the people who visit the loco site
[21:23] <highvoltage> I like the work that andrejz is doing
[21:23] <ogra_cmpc> or at least someone speaking up for you here would be nice
[21:23] <Seveaz> especially as your locoteam is changing, comments from others are a good indication of your work
[21:24] <highvoltage> it's good work but I think we need to see more of it, +0
[21:24] <popey> thats a significant chunk of work done there
[21:24] <ogra_cmpc> i'm with Seveas here, the work looks great but a testemonial would help
[21:24] <ogra_cmpc> +/-0 from here
[21:24] <czajkowski> andrejz: I'm going to go +0 as I'd like to see some testominals
[21:24] <drubin> +0 from my side. same as highvoltage, I would love to see peoples comments
[21:24] <Seveaz> highvoltage: I don't think quantity is a problem, but the quality is a bit hard to judge without some testimonials
[21:25] <highvoltage> Seveaz: yep
[21:25] <popey> yeah I'm gonna go +0 here too. I'd love to see you come back with an update wiki page next month!
[21:25] <ogra_cmpc> ++
[21:25] <andrejz> well, i am mostly concentrating on the translation part, since i don't have time to be involved directly in the events and so forth
[21:25] <Seveaz> andrejz: if you can collect some comments/testimonials on your wikipage and come back next meeting, then you'll be approved in no time
[21:25] <czajkowski> andrejz: I'm sure folks on the gnome community would gladly leave a testimonial of you asked
[21:25] <Dice-Man> does the meeting start ?
[21:25] <andrejz> if you are interested in the quality of my work, i can ask a leader of gnome translation team to give some testimonials
[21:25] <Seveaz> but for now I'm afraid you have to wait
[21:25] <andrejz> is that ok ?
[21:25] <Seveaz> andrejz: yes, excellent idea
[21:25] <popey> andrejz: that would be awesome
[21:26] <andrejz> ok, that can be done
[21:26] <andrejz> so in a month's time ?
[21:26] <popey> yeah, first tuesday
[21:26] <ogra_cmpc> right
[21:26] <Seveaz> andrejz: first tuesday of the month
[21:26] <highvoltage> andrejz: when you do establish that quality control system, or any of the other future plans listed on your page, please write a sentence about it on your application, it will also help
[21:26] <andrejz> well what we mostly are trying to do is educate the translators
[21:26] <Seveaz> cool
[21:27] <Seveaz> see you in a month then!
[21:27] <andrejz> as most of them just clicked on the translate this application link in ubuntu and weren't aware of the rules
[21:27] <andrejz> see you then
[21:27] <Seveaz> MichealH / MichealH_: you're up next
[21:27] <highvoltage> andrejz: thanks for your good work and see you next time!
[21:27] <ogra_cmpc> so get a translator to tell us about it (or write about it in the wiki) ;)
[21:27] <drubin> andrejz: thanks see you next meeting
[21:27] <MichealH> Hi, I am Miicheal Harker and I have contributed lots to the Ubuntu Community, Mainly by making HOWTO's and Tutorials. I am not really a developer but the inspiration got me through. People had requested alot and I had gave them it. I have the stuff on my Wiki
[21:28] <MichealH> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.ocm/Micheal_Harker
[21:28] <MichealH> Site: http://www.michealh.co.cc
[21:28] <czajkowski> MichealH: so you got involved a month ago, what made you start?
[21:28] <drubin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Micheal_Harker << fixed link
[21:29] <MichealH> Not a month ago It was more like 3 years ago I started Ubuntu
[21:29] <popey> the forum links are broken
[21:29] <Seveaz> other contributions are minimal, where can we find these howtos/tutorials?
[21:29] <MichealH> I didnt link them I hav just edited it like 30 mins ago in a rush sorry popey
[21:29] <highvoltage> -1 [ Wiki page contains insuficcient documentation of sustained contribution and application is otherwise incomplete ]
[21:29] <MichealH> They should be on my wiki
[21:30] <czajkowski> -1 wiki page is incomplete
[21:30] <Seveaz> well, they are not
[21:30] <Seveaz> -1 for bad preparation. I believe czajkowski is volunteering to help there :)
[21:30] <MichealH> here is one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...0
[21:30] <MichealH> That is my 64 bit Flash one
[21:30] <Seveaz> MichealH: that's a broken link.
[21:30] <czajkowski> Seveaz: I am...
[21:30] <drubin> -1 [Wiki page is incomplete and LP profile is +- only 6 months old I would like to see more continued involvement]
[21:30] <highvoltage> MichealH: At the minimum you need to follow the steps listed on the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[21:30] <MichealH> Broken?
[21:31] <popey> the forums links are busted
[21:31] <ogra_cmpc> yeah, here too
[21:31] <MichealH> This one is correct:http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...06&postcount=1
[21:31] <popey> no, it isnt
[21:31] <Seveaz> no, it is not
[21:31] <highvoltage> MichealH: please keep in mind that as individuals we don't follow you personally, so we rely on a complete application in order to judge membership
[21:32] <popey> I'll -1 too for the same reasons as others have cited. We need an up to date and working wiki page to work from
[21:32] <MichealH> Grr the thing is going wrong. It is at www.michealh.co.cc/ubuntu/member the link are there promise they are just shortened
[21:32] <ogra_cmpc> MichealH, clicking the forum links gets me to the forums frontpage
[21:32] <MichealH> This is all going weird I had tripple checked tose links
[21:32] <popey> has everyone voted?
[21:32] <ogra_cmpc> well, same thing on your homepage
[21:33] <Seveaz> only ogra_cmpc has not
[21:33] <ogra_cmpc> +0 from me
[21:33] <Seveaz> ok, MichealH please prepare your wikipage better next time
[21:33] <Seveaz> legreffier: you're next
[21:33] <legreffier> yes
[21:33] <MichealH> I will apply next time.
[21:33]  * ogra_cmpc likes MichealH's enthusiasm, please keep that up :)
[21:33]  * drubin too
[21:34] <ogra_cmpc> its just a bit of paperwork
[21:34] <MichealH> Thanks ogra_cmpc
[21:34] <MichealH> I will get the paperwork sorted well
[21:34] <MichealH> Very well
[21:34] <ogra_cmpc> great
[21:34] <Seveaz> legreffier: please introduce yourself
[21:34] <czajkowski> moving on...
[21:34] <legreffier> ok
[21:34] <legreffier> hello
[21:34] <legreffier> My name is Yoann, i'm from France :)
[21:34] <highvoltage> Bonjour
[21:35] <legreffier> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeGreffier
[21:35] <legreffier> I'm a member from the #ubuntu-fr team for a year
[21:35] <highvoltage> legreffier: what are your interests in Ubuntu?
[21:36] <legreffier> and a helper on irc for a few more.
[21:36]  * popey pokes the wiki
[21:36] <legreffier> well , it's simple and cares great ideas.
[21:37] <czajkowski> legreffier: I noticed you don't have any testimonials, can you tell me about some involvement in your LoCO ?
[21:37] <czajkowski> I know the french loco is very active
[21:37] <legreffier> czajkowski: i have now!
[21:37] <popey> czajkowski: there's 4
[21:37] <highvoltage> legreffier: how do you contribute to vimperator plugins and extensions?
[21:37] <Seveaz> legreffier: he has some brief comments
[21:38]  * ogra_cmpc reloads
[21:38] <legreffier> i went to a few UP! but i'm not involved in the loco despite it's active.
[21:38] <czajkowski> reloads also
[21:38] <niko> yes, he has some, he is an active op in #ubuntu-fr* namespace
[21:38] <Seveaz> legreffier: why are you not involved in the loco?
[21:38] <czajkowski> huats: ping
[21:39] <legreffier> i lack the time for
[21:39] <legreffier> despite I'd like to get more involved.
[21:39] <Seveaz> I think that's a good idea
[21:40] <highvoltage> +0 [ Good work but I would like to see more before I'd be able to consider it significant and sustained contributions ]
[21:40]  * ogra_cmpc thinks that too, but i dont see loco membership as a requirement 
[21:40] <huats> czajkowski, pong
[21:40] <niko> huats: c'est à propos du membership de legreffier :)
[21:40] <McPeter> huats, o/
[21:41] <huats> czajkowski, hello !
[21:41] <legreffier> i didn't know it was one + i think i lack some social skill[sz] as well.
[21:41] <huats> and everyone elsetoo
[21:41] <huats> :)
[21:41] <Seveaz> I'm with highvoltage but more +0.5 than +0
[21:41] <BlackZ> hey huats :)
[21:41] <legreffier> hello huats
[21:41] <ogra_cmpc> huats, can you tell us something about legreffier
[21:41] <highvoltage> Seveaz: heh, me too really
[21:41] <huats> legreffier, is indeed one of aour very active op in the french team
[21:41] <huats> he is part of the team
[21:41] <Seveaz> huats: what kind of things does he do?
[21:42] <huats> he has been granted the right to participate
[21:42] <huats> in the admin side
[21:42] <huats> which is great already
[21:42] <huats> since we have quite a channel with quite a high number of people
[21:42] <ogra_cmpc> huats, so his work helps your team (and ubuntu) ?
[21:42] <huats> ogra_cmpc, definitly
[21:42] <czajkowski> huats: so you think he contributes to the  french team
[21:43] <huats> currently 232 people on the channel
[21:43]  * ogra_cmpc is +1 then
[21:43] <huats> we need to have quite some ops :)
[21:43] <Seveaz> yeah, changong to +1 too
[21:43] <czajkowski> ok based on huats comments I'm +1
[21:43] <czajkowski> huats: thanks for coming in :)
[21:43] <drubin> +1 From my side
[21:43] <huats> czajkowski, he is clearly a part of the team
[21:43] <popey> yeah, thanks huats ! +1 from me too
[21:43] <davromaniak> legreffier is a very good person in ubuntu-fr and also in professional "life"
[21:43] <ogra_cmpc> huats, thanks a lot that heloed much
[21:43] <huats> your welcome everyone
[21:43] <huats> :)
[21:43] <drubin> btw that is more people then in #ubuntu-meeting
[21:43] <ogra_cmpc> *helped
[21:43] <czajkowski> whoo welcome legreffier
[21:43] <niko> yep, as member of the ubuntu-fr ops, i'm agree :)
[21:43] <highvoltage> legreffier: congratulations and welcome!
[21:43] <ogra_cmpc> congrats legreffier
[21:43] <Seveaz> ok, that's +5.5, welcome aboard!
[21:44] <legreffier> oh rly?
[21:44] <huats> congrats legredier :)
[21:44] <legreffier> :)
[21:44] <HardDisk> congratulations :)
[21:44] <niko> congrats :)
[21:44] <ogra_cmpc> yes :)
[21:44] <huats> legreffier, ::)
[21:44] <drubin> congrats
[21:44] <legreffier>  great thank you very much
[21:44] <Seveaz> popey: would you mind doing launchpad duty? I'm on a spare box without my lp password
[21:44] <popey> added
[21:44] <HardDisk> niko..you're here :) good
[21:44] <legreffier> :D
[21:44] <McPeter> ubuntu meber of ubuntu-fr ops too .. i agree too
[21:44]  * czajkowski is editing the wiki 
[21:44] <popey> congrats legreffier
[21:44] <Seveaz> BlackZ: you're up
[21:44] <BlackZ> Hi all, My name is Lorenzo De Liso and I'm from Italy. I started to use ubuntu since few years. I work as a IT security consultant for a datacenter and as a developer for a company.
[21:44] <BlackZ> I'm an ubuntu contributor in many ways: I triage bugs (I'm a member of the ubuntu bugcontrol team), I review and test patches (I'm a member of the  ubuntu reviewers team), I'm an helper for users which wants to join an ubuntu development team (e.g. MOTU) (I'm a member of the mentoring reception team, we're reorganizing the team, the documentation ..).
[21:44] <McPeter> legreffier, congrats :)
[21:45] <BlackZ> I have did some translations in Italian, I'm the maintainer of some templates (hope to join the Italian translation team soon!), I also help sometimes in the channel #ubuntu-it.
[21:45] <niko> hello, HardDisk, again, apologies for my mistake few days ago :)
[21:45] <BlackZ> See my ubuntu wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso ) and my launchpad page ( https://www.launchpad.net/~blackz ) for more details.
[21:45] <HardDisk> niko, lol I actually have a good speech to say and it involves you in a good way :)
[21:45] <HardDisk> sorry to interrupt.
[21:45] <highvoltage> BlackZ: based on your packaging work and your intent to become a MOTU, did you consider taking becoming a motu-contributing-member perhaps?
[21:46] <BlackZ> highvoltage: yeah, in the future
[21:46] <highvoltage> ok, you could do that based on your existing work already.
[21:46] <BlackZ> highvoltage: I don't want that right now
[21:46] <BlackZ> since I don't think the work is enough ;)
[21:47] <highvoltage> BlackZ: for a contributing member you don't need a lot of work, the contributing members is a step below full MOTU
[21:47] <Dice-Man> hello legreffier
[21:47] <BlackZ> highvoltage: yeah but the bug triaging isn't *JUST* part of the ubuntu development
[21:47] <BlackZ> so can't I apply? :(
[21:48] <Seveaz> BlackZ: yes you can, but the more logical route is the development track
[21:48] <czajkowski> BlackZ: can you tell me your involvement in the italian loco ?
[21:48] <highvoltage> BlackZ: yes you can!
[21:48] <BlackZ> czajkowski: yes, I'm involved with the italian forum, the italian translation team, the italian documentation project
[21:48] <BlackZ> see my wiki page for full details
[21:48] <highvoltage> BlackZ: well let's talk about that after the meeting
[21:48] <BlackZ> ... OK
[21:48] <Seveaz> highvoltage: so you're voting -1?
[21:49] <highvoltage> Seveaz: I'm still deciding but it will probably be +1
[21:49] <huats> I know it is not the issue here, but I'd like to stress the implication of BlackZ in the motu mentoring reception team.
[21:49] <Seveaz> I'm leaning towards +1
[21:49] <drubin> I am going for a +0 [as I think BlackZ work has mostly been packaging related and suggests trying to apply via that route]
[21:49] <Seveaz> huats: implication?
[21:49] <huats> I am leading the team
[21:49] <huats> the team was quite dead
[21:49] <huats> I have asked for help
[21:49] <huats> and for the last 2 month
[21:50] <huats> a new team is working on redifining the processes
[21:50] <huats> and everything related to the mentoring of future developers
[21:50] <highvoltage> BlackZ: https://launchpad.net/~blackz/+related-software shows recent uploads to Lucid and Maverick, what work did you do on those packages?
[21:50] <huats> BlackZ, is a member of the people who are rebuilding the team
[21:50] <huats> so we are having (almost) weekly meeting
[21:50] <huats> exchanging various email
[21:50] <huats> related to that
[21:50] <BlackZ> highvoltage: it depends, sometime I just request a sync, I do the packaging work or I do a merge
[21:50] <Seveaz> huats: ok, that make me go -0 because the motu/developer route is really much more appropriate then
[21:51] <huats> in order to redefine the process
[21:51] <Seveaz> that work seems absolutely awesome, but not really our 'territory'
[21:51] <czajkowski> I thik -0 due to the MOTU work tbh
[21:51] <BlackZ> Seveas: please see also the contribute to the #ubuntu-it channel
[21:51] <huats> (we haven't communicate over it since we haven't addressed all the issues)
[21:51] <BlackZ> ... why are you seeing just the contribute to MOTU?
[21:51] <BlackZ> I'm confused
[21:51] <highvoltage> BlackZ: I just checked the changelogs, you actually did some good work and I think you should really applu for a universe contributor at some stage
[21:52] <drubin> BlackZ: We just think your MOTU work outways your community involvement. (in a good way)
[21:52] <huats> Seveaz, it is part of the Ubuntu community
[21:52] <popey> i dont think one negates the other
[21:52] <highvoltage> +1 from me
[21:52]  * ogra_cmpc sees bug contribution as well as irc, doc and translation contribution
[21:52] <czajkowski> BlackZ: it's a good thing, as drubin has said we think your MOTU work outweighs your community work
[21:52]  * popey votes +1
[21:52] <czajkowski> it;s all Ubutnu work just in different ways
[21:52]  * ogra_cmpc is +1
[21:52] <popey> a great mix of work
[21:52]  * drubin is still +0
[21:53] <drubin> Hoping BlackZ will go the MOTU route :)
[21:53] <BlackZ> drubin: I will, but in the future
[21:53] <Seveaz> that's +3, which is a hung jury
[21:53] <ogra_cmpc> though indeed i would encourage to move on with MOTU but the other contribution surely is enough for membership
[21:53] <BlackZ> I don't want to do that now since I'm not contributing just to MOTU
[21:53] <highvoltage> Seveaz: has czajkowski voted?
[21:53] <czajkowski>  did
[21:53] <popey> yes
[21:53] <czajkowski> I did
[21:53] <BlackZ> or better, the ubuntu development
[21:53] <HardDisk> such contraversy :)
[21:53] <popey> i dont think we should punish BlackZ by holding back membership when there is clearly more than just motu work
[21:54] <ogra_cmpc> ++
[21:54] <BlackZ> as huats said, mentoring reception is part of the ubuntu community work
[21:54] <BlackZ> also, see *ALL* testimonials
[21:54] <HardDisk> controversy even*
[21:54] <Seveaz> BlackZ: can you give us a link to your forum profile?
[21:54] <highvoltage> BlackZ: I didn't mean MOTU, I meant universe-contributors, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev
[21:55] <highvoltage> BlackZ: that's basically getting membership through the DMB, I'm sorry you couldn't make it tonight but I know you'll get there
[21:55] <huats> highvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the Ubuntu membership
[21:55] <popey> well, its not a yes or a no
[21:55] <Seveaz> BlackZ: ?
[21:55] <huats> sorry
[21:55] <huats> highvoltage,
[21:55] <huats> I meant
[21:55] <BlackZ> http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=74705
[21:55] <huats> highvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the MOTU membership
[21:55] <BlackZ> -> Seveas
[21:56]  * BlackZ still don't know the reason for apply to MOTU instead since he has contributed in many ways and not just in the ubuntu development
[21:56] <popey> uhm, its not hung
[21:56] <Seveaz> popey: +4 is majority
[21:57] <popey> 3 are +1, 3 are 0, no -1
[21:57] <ogra_cmpc> Seveas, one +0 ?
[21:57] <ogra_cmpc> oh 3 +0 ?
[21:57] <Seveaz> forum profile only has 48 posts, where are most of your contributions to the loco?
[21:57]  * ogra_cmpc somehow missed that
[21:57] <BlackZ> Seveas: see in the wiki page the testimonials for the #ubuntu-it help
[21:57] <BlackZ> also see my translation work
[21:58] <highvoltage> we've voted and provided feedback, let's move on so that the last two people can still apply in this meeting
[21:58] <popey> ok, the way I see it you have a choice, come back another time or go to the motu membership, or appeal to the cc
[21:58] <popey> does that sound fair to the emea board?
[21:58] <Seveaz> it sounds like the sanest solution popey
[21:58] <highvoltage> yep
[21:58]  * ogra_cmpc doesnt get our voting mechanism
[21:58] <popey> ogra_cmpc: needs 4+ to pass
[21:58] <ogra_cmpc> its an overall +3 or not
[21:59] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[21:59] <drubin> yes popey
[21:59] <czajkowski> popey: sounds good.
[21:59] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: board members can mod up or down or abstain. a candidate requires a score of "4" to gain membership
[21:59] <czajkowski> can we move on to the last two
[21:59] <Seveaz> ok, BlackZ sorry to disappoint
[21:59] <Seveaz> let's move on
[21:59] <Seveaz> sirex``: you're up
[21:59] <ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, k
[21:59]  * sirex` is here
[21:59] <sirex`> Hi. My name is Mantas Zimnickas. Currently I'm leading Lithuanian Ubuntu community. Here in Lithuania we have only one Ubuntu Member – Tomas Žeimys, but his membership expired few days ago. Tomas Žeimys now has his own business and he is wery busy, so officially decided to leave Ubuntu Community. So I will try to replace him with communication with Ubuntu people from outside of Lithuania.
[22:00] <highvoltage> great, thanks for doing that sirex`
[22:01] <czajkowski> sirex`: nice wiki layout
[22:01] <Seveaz> nice wiki content as well
[22:01] <Seveaz> quite easily +1 from me
[22:01] <MichealH> sorry vbrummond Too late, I didnt get it Just PM me a testimonial like I PM ed you
[22:01] <highvoltage> their website is also nice
[22:01] <MichealH> and the I will add it
[22:02] <Seveaz> MichealH: please take this to pm. The meeting is still ongoing
[22:02] <MichealH> oops
[22:02] <drubin> easy +1
[22:02] <ogra_cmpc> +1
[22:02] <czajkowski> easy +1 also, nice job and good luck wiht the team
[22:03] <highvoltage> +1 based on loco development and other community support
[22:03] <popey> oh wow, thats +1
[22:03] <Seveaz> yay for well-prepared people
[22:03] <Seveaz> welcome aboard sirex` !
[22:03] <popey> btw we're overrunning into a cc meeting which is happening now, but we have nothing on the agenda, and I'm sure the cc will wait :)
[22:03] <highvoltage> sirex`: congratulations and welcome!
[22:03] <drubin> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4798_99295467892_99285012892_2157158_349195_n.jpg
[22:03] <sirex`> Thanks
[22:03] <Seveaz> last candidate: HardDisk
[22:03] <czajkowski> popey: we'll make it quick
[22:03] <HardDisk> congratulations :)
[22:03] <HardDisk> ok bare with me I have a lot to past :D
[22:03] <HardDisk> -----
[22:03] <HardDisk> Hi, my name is Sam Azab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SamAzab, as you quickly browse my wiki site info.  Just a quick recap, I am a 31 year old Egyptian and the founder of #ubuntu-eg.  I took over as team leader since the previous leader stayed idle for 3 years without really doing anything.  So I decided to apply last year for ubuntu membership not fully understanding what it meant to be a member which is why I was rejected at the time.
[22:04] <popey> added to ubuntumembers
[22:04] <HardDisk> Today I present to you a new me literally.  Coincidentally yesterday a freenode op niko accidentally dropped my nick, and I had to go through jussi and tsimpson to get my channel back and given access back to me, so I think it was a sign that this occured on the eve of applying for membership :)...  I have revamped and recreated our EgyptTeam wiki site, I have been involved in producing and helping in our very first release party in C
[22:04] <HardDisk> airo Egypt at Cairo University, I am the one in the superman Tshirt and the ubuntu cap :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events
[22:04] <HardDisk> I was also inspired by Ronnie Tucker's Full Circle Magazine, but instead of just creating a translation version of his magazine like other languages and people have done.  I took a step further but helping in arranging our first Arabic based ubuntu magazine, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Articles/First%20Arabic%20Edition%20Ubuntu%20Plus%20Magazine and we have had lots of people downloading it via posts from our mailing li
[22:04] <HardDisk> st, from our forum links and have had good feedback till now.
[22:05] <highvoltage> HardDisk: seems like the only 2 meetings the EgyptTeam had occured in the last two months, has there been a recent revival?
[22:05] <HardDisk> yes
[22:05] <HardDisk> I currently run a personal ubuntu blog, http://sambuntu.blogspot.com, but on Sunday we conducted a meeting into creating our first team blog/video blog/aggregator and we are in the process of producing such a site by the end of next week.  Many members are in exams right now so they are not able to attend this meeting, but I have their moral support.  Simple reason I don't have testimonials yet is due to the fact my members are very n
[22:05] <HardDisk> ew and are still in the process of beginning themselves, and I am "mentoring" them into becoming productive members of the LoCo team, and explaining what it means to be part of such a team.
[22:06] <HardDisk> The mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team, so I'm sure you have access to those resources, actions speak louder than words.  Also tsimpson was kindly to add lubotu3 yesterday to our channel, and we already discussed in our mailing list that we will prepare arabic localized factoids and apply them then wait for the IRC council to approve them to be placed up.
[22:06] <HardDisk> I believe from my first encounter of basically doing nothing to what I have achieved up to this moment in a year deserves recognition and that being becoming an official member with the ubuntu community.
[22:06] <HardDisk> and that's all I have to say.  Questions?
[22:06] <Seveaz> I see one event and no testimonials. It looks like you're doing good work, but there's not much to confirm that.
[22:06] <Seveaz> How large is the locoteam in egypt?
[22:07] <HardDisk> officially, 10 members.
[22:07] <HardDisk> unofficially, 25
[22:07] <Seveaz> then why did none of them comment on your wikipage?
[22:07] <HardDisk> because none of them have wiki pages
[22:07] <ogra_cmpc> they can just comment on yours though
[22:08] <ogra_cmpc> or come over from #ubuntu-eg now and speak up
[22:08] <HardDisk> well I explained already that the mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team.
[22:08] <czajkowski> HardDisk: they don't need a wiki page to comment, just leave their name or link to launchpad
[22:08] <HardDisk> and its all in arabic
[22:08] <highvoltage> +0 [ really good work, but it's all very recent and I'd like to see more evidence of significant and sustained contribution before I could give a +1 ]
[22:08] <Seveaz> +0 as well, same reasons
[22:08] <drubin> +0 same reasnos
[22:08] <HardDisk> see I disagree.
[22:09] <czajkowski> +0
[22:09] <HardDisk> because your reasons are the same I was told last time.
[22:09]  * ogra_cmpc is +0.5 the work looks good but some testimonials would be nice
[22:09] <czajkowski> testiminals would help HardDisk
[22:09] <HardDisk> I wont be able to get testimonials in english.
[22:09] <Seveaz> why not?
[22:09] <highvoltage> HardDisk: I'm glad that you do disagree, I'd like to give you a +1 and suggest that you re-apply in about 3 months
[22:09] <HardDisk> because we speak arabic
[22:09] <ogra_cmpc> get them in arabic if you cant get them in english
[22:09] <HardDisk> im the only english speaker here
[22:09] <Seveaz> HardDisk: then let them add the testimonials in arabic and translate them for us :)
[22:09] <ogra_cmpc> we'll use google translate worst case
[22:10] <czajkowski> HardDisk: ask ogra_cmpc said they dont have to be in english we can get google translate
[22:10] <HardDisk> well it will take more than three months then
[22:10] <highvoltage> HardDisk: we'll accept testimonials in Arabic
[22:10] <HardDisk> because they are still learning the process
[22:10] <HardDisk> maybe ill apply next year if I get the urge.
[22:10] <Seveaz> HardDisk: there's no rush :)
[22:10] <HardDisk> 2nd rejection isnt exactly encouraging for me.
[22:10] <popey> sorry, connection issues
[22:10] <highvoltage> HardDisk: your last application was quite recent iirc
[22:10] <HardDisk> thank you for your time.
[22:10] <drubin> HardDisk: Same here, get them to write them in Arabic
[22:11] <ogra_cmpc> HardDisk, just ask each of the ten people in #ubuntu-eg to write one sentence about you for next meeting
[22:11] <highvoltage> HardDisk: and there hasn't been much change since then, I suggest you get the Loco team solid, and get it approved as an official loco
[22:11] <ogra_cmpc> HardDisk, or even make them come in here
[22:11] <HardDisk> we'll see, thanks.
[22:11] <highvoltage> HardDisk: I really believe you're doing good work and would love to give you a +1 in the future
[22:11]  * ogra_cmpc too
[22:11]  * drubin also
[22:12] <HardDisk> appreciate the incentive.
[22:12] <ogra_cmpc> i'm actually only 0.5 away from that personally :)
[22:12] <Seveaz> ok, that concludes todays meeting, let's give the room to the CC
[22:12] <highvoltage> thanks everyone, next Meeting is on July 6th, 20:00 UTC
[22:12] <ogra_cmpc> thanks
[22:12] <czajkowski> highvoltage: wiki page updated
[22:12] <Seveaz> oh damn, I won't make that one
[22:12] <Technoviking> anyome here from the CC meeting?
[22:13] <Seveaz> see you all in 2 months then :)
[22:13] <highvoltage> Seveaz: holidays?
[22:13] <Seveaz> Technoviking: actually, if there's an "anyone else" opportunity, I'd like to bring an issue to the table
[22:13] <popey> thanks everyone
[22:14] <Technoviking> any other CC people here
[22:14] <popey> o/
[22:14] <highvoltage> czajkowski: that was fast, thanks
[22:14] <Technoviking> Seveaz: sure, let me see if we have close to quorum:)
[22:14] <popey> (unsurprisingly)
[22:14] <Seveaz> Technoviking: it won't need a vote
[22:14] <popey> we dont need quorum to discuss :)
[22:14] <Technoviking> Seveaz: then seize the day
[22:14] <Seveaz> ok
[22:14] <Technoviking> :)
[22:14] <popey> pleia2 / nixternal ?
[22:15] <highvoltage> it's all boring stuff on the fixed agenda anyway :)
[22:15]  * pleia2 waves
[22:15] <pleia2> sorry, at work, was distracted :)
[22:15] <McPeter> bye bye all &amp; see later
[22:16] <Seveaz> we had one candidate just now that had most contributions in motu/dev land and marginal verifiable contributions in loco land. He received 3 +1 votes and 3 neutral votes, so hung jury. We do feel bad about sending a message that says 'rejected' though and some CC guidance could be useful.
[22:16] <MichealH> Popey,What would I need to be successful next time
[22:16] <popey> MichealH: there's a meeting going on right now
[22:16] <MichealH> oops sorry
[22:17] <pleia2> Seveaz: are they interested in membership via motu instead? (sorry if this is in the scrollback)
[22:17] <Seveaz> the neutral votes were all because the voters thought he should go that route, he was interested but 'didn't want to do that just yet'
[22:18] <pleia2> you did the right thing, and Americas board doesn't list deferrals (or rejections) in our announcements
[22:18] <pleia2> just new members, we just keep a record of those who are coming back and make sure to refer to it when they return
[22:18] <Seveaz> we don't either, but this vote sends such a message to the candidate. He felt rejected
[22:19] <maco> may i poke my head in a moment?
[22:19] <drubin> as one of the people that voted +0 it was for that very reason.
[22:19] <pleia2> gotcha, yeah, being delicate with these things is tricky sometimes, people get quite stressed about these applications
[22:19] <maco> do the "contributing developer" category get membership automatically like motu?
[22:19] <huats> maco, yep
[22:19] <MichealH> I feel sorry for the guy
[22:19] <drubin> yes
[22:19] <maco> if someone's not prepared for motu yet but is a good contributor, that may be the route to send them
[22:20] <maco> er good contributor-in-the-dev-sense
[22:21] <highvoltage> maco: yes, I tried to explain it but was met with resistance
[22:21] <Seveaz> ok, thanks. Makes me feel better about it :)
[22:22] <ajmitch> highvoltage: it could in a way be seen as discouraging doing 'too much' development work (though perhaps not enough to get membership on development work alone)
[22:22] <highvoltage> maco: he's actually done some really good packaging work and lists "becomming MOTU" as his future plans, so I'm not sure why he was resistant to the contributing-developer route
[22:22] <highvoltage> ajmitch: that's what I figured too
[22:22] <huats> sorry to interrupt you but it is not the definition given by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[22:24] <czajkowski> I've just mentioned that page should possibly be updated to reflect the packaging and  development
[22:24] <drubin> czajkowski: ^
[22:24] <maco> ajmitch: if there's a decent balance of community work too, i'd +1. i think its just hard for the non-devs on the RMBs to judge dev contributions
[22:24] <MichealH> basiccly I take rejection as a time to think about why I didn't get in and how I can make it better in the future thus, people ahpulnt take it seriously in my opinion
[22:25] <pleia2> lack of testimonials is also an issue (not sure how we can stress how important these are more, we had this problem at the last americas meeting too)
[22:25] <maco> yep, 3 deferrals due to lack of testimonials last time
[22:25] <MichealH> I agree testimonials are key tto esure quality
[22:26] <Seveaz> emea sees that a lot as well
[22:26] <pleia2> sometimes it's ok to approve w/o testimonials, but there need to be pictures and very public work that's well-documented
[22:27] <maco> our loco has a flickr group so that when anyone around here goes up for membership we can just point at it.  or when czajkowski is deciding the team's fate :P
[22:27] <MichealH> as long as we see the quality I would +1
[22:27] <popey> wonder if we should spam/mail people who add themselves to the agenda with 'what we expect' ?
[22:27] <Seveaz> popey: we could emphasize it a bit more on the wikipage
[22:28] <Pendulum> maybe someone could blog about it too as a reminder?
[22:28] <popey> Seveaz: they clearly dont read the wiki page
[22:28] <czajkowski> maco: more than me on the board for loco council.
[22:28] <pleia2> Pendulum: blogging is ok, but it only reaches people at a specific moment in time
[22:29] <maco> czajkowski: eh youre the only one i know, and you're here :P
[22:29] <Seveaz> it helped for 1 meeting after I did that last time :)
[22:29] <popey> hah
[22:29] <czajkowski> maco: popey
[22:29] <maco> popey: are we able to make BIG text on the wiki?
[22:30] <popey> yup
 tags?
[22:30] <popey> and a stop sign
[22:30] <maco> like "GET TESTIMONIALS ON YOUR PAGE OR WE'LL SAY NO!"
[22:30] <MichealH> lol
[22:30] <Seveaz> ok, let's put another question forward: how much should the RMB's take dev work into account?
[22:30] <Seveaz> (ok, it's the same question, posed differently)
[22:30] <lifeless> as evidence of sustained significant contribution, a lot
[22:31] <highvoltage> Seveaz: if a board member can judge the technical contributions, they should be allowed to vote to reflect positive contributions
[22:31] <MichealH> I don't think they should at all Someone may not develop and will be left out
[22:31] <lifeless> but only if the RMB feels able to assess the work in question
[22:31] <maco> highvoltage: thats the worry i would have
[22:31] <lifeless> MichealH: we look for multiple forms of contribution, I don't see why we'd leave someone out.
[22:31] <highvoltage> maco: if someone wants to apply on pure technical merit, they should really apply to the DMB
[22:31] <maco> how many of the people on each RMB are developer sorts *and* confident in their ability to judge others' technical contributions
[22:32] <ajmitch> MichealH: this is trying to avoid the case of someone being left out at that meeting because they're being told to apply to the DMB
[22:32] <maco> highvoltage: yeah thats why i said if they have a good balance of community stuff then i'd +1 in the RMB
[22:32] <lifeless> maco: in the asia RMB, there is me and persia
[22:32] <MichealH> I know that but If you took dev work that seriously the. that may happen
[22:32] <highvoltage> maco: if someone's contributions are a mix of community and developer work, then the RMBs certainly seem appropriate
[22:32] <drubin> I am happy to judge people bassed on technical merts, I was under the impression that technical contributions were for the DMB
[22:32] <lifeless> maco: I can't comment on other RMB's without looking up their memberships
[22:32] <pleia2> I trust my fellow board members, if someone on the board can accurately evaluate contributions in dev-stuff I will trust their opinion when weighed against other work I can evaluate
[22:33] <huats> If I may : during the vote for that person, it has been said something like : "you contribution to the MOTU outweight (in a good way) your community work, so +0 for the Ubuntu membership.".
[22:33] <Seveaz> drubin: well, in this case I think the dev work far outweighrd community contributions, so I refered to the DMB
[22:33] <maco> highvoltage: agreed though i'd think the amount of each might be a factor. if they do a lot of technical and attended one release party... i'd send them to the DMB
[22:33] <MichealH> I think people who get people to come along to meeting to support them should get considered
[22:34] <huats> So I can understand that the technical contribution are not easily weightable, but if it is the case it should be reflected on the definition of the Ubuntu Membership
[22:34] <lifeless> MichealH: what are you concerned about in particular, I'm really not clear what you're saying.
[22:34] <pleia2> MichealH: people who come along to support count as testimonials
[22:34] <highvoltage> maco: indeed, I'd clearly not count attending a release party a whole lot towards membership
[22:34] <maco> huats: thing is, technical contributions *do* count. thats why motu and UCD and core devs are automatically members. its just that a different set of people may be needed to do the evaluation
[22:35] <MichealH> if here was someone there to back someones contributions then the person applying should be considered more than the others
[22:35] <maco> i dont think written v. in-person testimonials should count separately
[22:35] <maco> er, differently
[22:35] <Seveaz> I agree with maco
[22:36] <lifeless> MichealH: I get the feeling that you feel that applications are a contest. Is that right ?
[22:36] <charlie-tca> MichealH: the supporter just needs to speak up
[22:36] <Seveaz> actually, I even prefer wiki testimonials
[22:36] <Seveaz> easier to track and less festive in the channel...
[22:36] <maco> Seveaz: better record keeping?
[22:36] <highvoltage> Seveaz: indeed, and it shows that someone was willing to do a tiny bit of effort in preperation
[22:37] <huats> maco, that is my point (since I am MOTU too...) :) but if someone can not evaluate someone else work, it is complicated to vote
[22:37] <lifeless> highvoltage: re when to use the DMB: If someone is very technical but applying that in ways that aren't package-uploads, I think the RMB is right.
[22:37] <MichealH> no you getting it wrong it's not that it's just someone to back their contributions have given 1 hour o heir time to back them up makes it look like the quality of their work is outstanding
[22:37] <highvoltage> lifeless: yep, agree 100% there
[22:37] <lifeless> highvoltage: e.g. mass rebuilds, large scale bug triage with automated analysis, Loco web site maintenance etc.
[22:38] <maco> lifeless: if theyre writing patches but not packaging them themselves... would you say RMB or DMB-for-UCD?
[22:38] <MichealH> There was alot of people there who have locos but don't use them or don't upadate them should we take that into account
[22:38] <huats> maco, we are not talking about UCD right ? we are talking about membership in general
[22:38] <lifeless> maco: If they are getting the patches *in*, I'd consider it in the RMB, but be a lot happier if their sponsor just got around to proposing them for DMB
[22:39] <lifeless> maco: if the patches aren't getting in, then it doesn't matter how much time they spend writing them, its not actually helping anything -> not a contribution. Sadly. So I'd encourage them to work on closing the loop (which will get them more DMB attention anyway)
[22:40] <maco> huats: yes but UCD is one avenue to gaining membership. so if theyre not packaging obviously not DMB-for-MOTU, but DMB-for-UCD might work. or does the DMB ever do membership outside of those groups?
[22:41] <huats> maco, in my opinion DMB for UCD or Motu or coredev
[22:41] <huats> and only
[22:41] <lifeless> AIUI the DMB is only delegated to give out upload-rights of various sorts, which carry membership with them
[22:41] <maco> lifeless: UCD lacks upload rights but includes membership
[22:41] <maco> lifeless: and the DMB gives that out
[22:41] <lifeless> kk, lemme refresh on that
[22:42] <highvoltage> huats: that's how it is currently
[22:42] <BlackZ> Well, I can't apply for the DMB (MOTU), why? Because my contributions aren't enough. I have applied for the RMB because I have contributed in many ways of ubuntu (translations, IRC help etc...). I had to appeal to the CC, why? Why I fell that's not right. Becoming a MOTU member isn't so easy and a MOTU can confirm that. However the contributions to the ubuntu development are BTW contributions to the ubuntu community, aren't they?
[22:42] <huats> highvoltage, I know :)
[22:42] <lifeless> I really which I was a bit clearer about where I can upload, as MOTU, these days :P
[22:43] <BlackZ> s/ubuntu community/ubuntu project
[22:43] <lifeless> maco: righto, so UCD is very much package focused too
[22:43] <lifeless> maco: I would steer someone primarily doing package work to DMB-*
[22:43] <lifeless> and someone doing primarily non-package work to RMB
[22:44] <lifeless> some non package work is technical
[22:44] <lifeless> and I'd say case-by-case
[22:44] <MichealH> lifeless agreed
[22:44] <Pendulum> how often are people given UCD status? because it strikes me that BlackZ didn't know it existed
[22:44] <lifeless> Pendulum: its very new
[22:44] <Pendulum> which makes me wonder how often it's mentioned or happens
[22:44] <lifeless> I don't know the frequency
[22:44] <maco> Pendulum: its existed for about a year and a bit
[22:44] <lifeless> (to me thats very new :P)
[22:44] <huats> lifeless, almost 2 years old....
[22:44] <maco> i think only like 6 or so people have ever applied
[22:45] <ajmitch> lifeless: to you, warty is new :P
[22:45] <maco> its easier to get in than motu
[22:45] <lifeless> ajmitch: aww, shucks.
[22:45] <Seveaz> ajmitch: you're still on no-name-yet :P
[22:45] <huats> I can speak of it, I have been Ubuntu Member, than UCD, than MOTU
[22:46] <highvoltage> lifeless: I thought you were a core-dev!
[22:46] <MichealH> I think it should be clarified on the wiki that a project should still be running for it to be classed as a contribution, just my 2 cents
[22:46] <ajmitch> membership via the DMB is mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[22:47] <maco> BlackZ: thing is, the RMBs are mostly prepared to judge contributions that are more people-oriented while the DMB is in a better position for the more code/package related stuff. both are worthy of membership, it's just a difference of who is in a good position to evaluate your contribution
[22:47] <maco> MichealH: hmmmm?
[22:47] <MichealH> anyone agree?
[22:47] <maco> MichealH: there are dead projects that people are still contributing to?
[22:48] <maco> (do they still count as dead if thats the case?)
[22:48] <MichealH> ok just a thouht
[22:48] <lifeless> MichealH: sustained significant contribution implies projects are still live: its not sustained if its not happening anymore
[22:48] <Seveaz> maco: that would make them undead?
[22:48] <maco> Seveaz: ZOMBIE PROJECTS!
[22:48] <lifeless> but if someone did 3 projects, each 6 months long, I'd count them
[22:48] <MichealH> but it should be clarified on the wiki
[22:48] <lifeless> as evidence of contribution over time
[22:48] <lifeless> wouldn't you ?
[22:48] <MichealH> yes like it's a serious contribution
[22:49] <lifeless> anyhow, sorry for jumping into your meeting, I should go get some code done.
[22:49] <lifeless> ciao.
[22:49] <popey> thanks lifeless
[22:49] <MichealH> if it lives it is a serious conribution and not one "I am doing this to become a member" thing
[22:50] <MichealH> And again just my two cents
[22:53] <MichealH> has the meeting ended?
[22:53] <Seveaz> I think so, nobody's saying anything :)
[22:54] <MichealH> I have lots of suggestions for the wiki page outlining the rules. I could clear it up if you want so It constains all the guidelines if nessesary
[22:55] <Seveaz> MichealH: no, please leave that page alone
[22:55] <lifeless> MichealH: we depend on the boards to make assessments
[22:55] <lifeless> MichealH: its not a hard and fast 'do X and become a member.', unless X is 'sustained, significant contribution'
[22:55] <MichealH> Ok
[22:56] <popey> i think this discussion has been very valuable
[22:56] <MichealH> agreed
[22:56] <MichealH> It has let me have a little natter
[22:56] <popey> and reinforces my resolve that all the membership boards should have shared communication tools
[22:57] <MichealH> I am not on the board.I was contributing to the discussion
[22:57] <Seveaz> popey: yes, where are we on that?
[22:57] <MichealH> giving my ideas
[22:57] <popey> Seveaz: good question, will poke again, there's an rt for it
[22:58] <MichealH> see you tommorow I like the meeting channel. I will see if there is a meeting I can have a rant at tommorow hehe
[22:58] <MichealH> :)
[22:58] <popey> :(
[22:58] <Seveaz> MichealH: you really should stop.
[22:59] <MichealH> ok
[22:59] <MichealH>  'night
[23:00] <legreffier> thank you to the council , thank you for the whole ubuntu thing , see you all soon :D
[23:43] <HardDisk> quick question, where does one go or ask about to appeal a decision?
[23:44] <popey> HardDisk: the community council
[23:44] <popey> !cc
[23:44] <popey> "Community Council List" <community-council@lists.ubuntu.com>,
[23:44] <HardDisk> k thanks.