[00:04] Cimi: hrm? [00:05] zniavre: that does not show me the problem [00:05] anyway, time for sleep [00:05] night all [00:26] is the ubuntu logo on lucid going to change?? please say yes :) [00:27] I mean for maverick? [03:34] vish, You have the source .svgs for the button troughs? === zniavre_ is now known as zniavre [12:58] is there a copy of the slides from http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/maverick/UDS-M-Making-Beautiful-Fonts-high.ogv anywhere? a video saying "look at this awesome font" which doesn't show the screen is kinda pointless [13:05] directhex: so far it doesn't look like the slides are available. we could of course pester iainfarrell, but i asked him twice already ;) [13:05] don't worry about it. [13:10] i'm sure iainfarrell is also *very* busy ;) [13:51] Hi directhex yes they are [13:51] Dalton Maag put them on their website [13:51] hang on [13:52] http://www.daltonmaag.com/docs/FontDevelopment.pdf [14:41] iainfarrell, oh, handy! [14:41] directhex: indeed [14:41] glad you're finding it interesting [14:41] take any questions you have to the blog so we can chat about it :) [14:42] iainfarrell, i don't have much of an eye for design, so it's always interesting to see how subtle the differences in the design process for things can get [14:43] directhex: it's a very complex process that's for sure [14:43] directhex: glad to see people are interested :) [14:48] iainfarrell, i read somewhere that it's possible to get ahold of vector images of words rendered with the current in-progress font, for use on web pages e.g. loco sites. is that the case? [14:48] directhex: yes the guidelines and logo assets are on the design team blog in the toolkits section [14:49] directhex: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/ [14:52] iainfarrell, yeah, one thing i wasn't clear on with those - there's no mention of aubergine in there, which confuses things somewhat given the "white and orange" example on page 7 has different colourization to the logo used in the boot screen in lucid [14:54] directhex: there's more to come in terms of colour [14:54] we have to explain in more detail where we see colours being used [14:54] but Aubergine is generally to be used sparingly where Ubuntu is concerned [14:54] so we use it in the boot to take the edge off the black for example [14:55] but not in many other places [14:55] Canonical leads much more with Aubergine but doesn't use Orange as much [14:55] because that's Ubuntu's primary colour [14:55] ETA? it makes it difficult to design web content relevant to lucid when neither lucid's colourization nor font are formalized clearly [14:56] The font will come with the next release in the first instance, we're planning a public beta but more on that soon - I don't have dates yet [14:56] If I were you I'd look at the new websites for guidance [14:56] and we'll publish guides as soon as we can [14:56] we have a list [14:56] we're working through it [14:56] I'll see if we can find a way of sharing the tasks ahead [14:57] so you guys know what you're getting and when [15:01] I'll keep using Xenu for now, then. it's good enough to fool the casual observer. [15:04] directhex: is that a free font? [15:05] iainfarrell, it's $30 of font [15:06] directhex: I'd wait if I were you [15:06] look at the CSS on the website [15:06] for the fonts we've chosen that go well with the Ubuntu font [15:06] and maybe update later [15:11] iainfarrell, that's not a bad idea as far as content goes, but there are limited options for Ubuntu-looking title fonts. Other than the old font, of course. [15:12] yeah, I would advise against using the old font [15:12] but using other fonts isn't necessarily bad [15:12] the ubuntu font is our word mark and logo [15:13] so don't feel like you have to slavishly conform [15:13] if your website is about Ubuntu use the logo [15:13] but it's also your website [15:13] your project [15:17] "look at the css" - you know there are 27 stylesheets on ubuntu.com, right? ;) [15:18] directhex: ok, that might not have been the most straight forward one :) [15:18] aha, yay for web developer toolbar [15:19] hm. "ubuntu beta", vera, dejavu. think that's what i already had in mind [15:20] directhex: great minds [15:26] hey guys [15:26] so who is doing what for maverick? [15:27] or is most of it left up to the "official" art team? [15:50] iainfarrell, i like making things look like other things, as far as the technology permits anyway, hence http://imgur.com/AHlSI [15:51] directhex: right, is that an updated login screen? [15:51] iainfarrell, no, it's grub [15:52] wow [15:52] I didn't recognise it :) [15:52] i wish that anti-aliased font patch would make it into grub though ¬_¬ [15:57] directhex: all in good time I'm sure [15:57] that's an interesting one though [15:57] because it makes grub look like a login [15:58] which might be confusing to users who think it's a login screen if the machine has been set up for them [15:58] is this red circle with cutout ubuntu symbol also going to be in marverick?? [15:59] that almost doesn't matter compared to the fact that I use it every day and casually looking at it thought it was the login screen so might confuse the non hardcore user even more [15:59] or it might do the reverse, by making grub feel like something they're already familiar with, rather than something scary and "DOS-like". i dunno, i don't conduct user studies. i just do things for fun. [15:59] the Ubuntu logo in the orange circle _is_ the finalised logo now [16:00] so it will be in Maverick in some form, yes [16:00] iainfarrell, oh thats a shame... I think it looks like a bad design decision [16:00] that and i found it rather easier to shoehorn a grub boot list into GDM's style than trying to do something with the plymouth style. [16:00] coz_: if you look in the guidelines the circle of friends can be used without it [16:01] but in the Ubuntu word mark [16:01] and in most cases [16:01] it will be in the circle [16:02] iainfarrell, understood... but still a poor design.... how much "influence" do the "community" art team have with "official" art team? [16:04] coz_: what makes you say it's a poor design, can you give me a scenario where it doesn't work? [16:04] iainfarrell, its a circle... first off... and a white cut out of the logo... looks as if it was done as a last minute design in a hurry [16:05] iainfarrell, it doesnt work well because it is first seen as a circle not the ubuntu logo... depending on your gestault view I suppose [16:07] Sounds more like you don't like it coz_ more than it's a bad design [16:07] I don't look at it and see just a circle [16:07] it's an evolution of the circle of friends [16:07] iainfarrell, well that;s one explanation.. but no.. it is a bad design... far to simplistic but not minimalistic [16:07] and I assure you it wasn't quick or last minute [16:08] iainfarrell, I believe it was not last minute [16:09] coz_: I think we'll have to agree to disagree :) [16:10] iainfarrell, but after 6 years of ubuntu... and all of the available ..more interesting designs.. just online... this one is tooo simplisitc and yes I suppose there is nothing to do but agree to disagree :) [16:10] We worked hard to make something that was simple but didn't leave the good things like the idea of the circle of friends behind [16:11] coz_, some art decisions are good, some are bad. i don't see the CoF refresh as bad [16:11] and you're welcome to play with it and throw ideas around [16:11] directhex understood [16:11] which is the great thing about this project of ours [16:11] plus we couldn't throw out the COF when so many people have tattoos of it :D [16:11] iainfarrell, yes but again ...how much influence does the "community art team" have on the "official art team" ? [16:12] coz_, when all's said & done, it's the old CoF in monochrome. [16:12] directhex, yes exactly... [16:13] coz_: I think if your contributions are in line with the work we're doing on maverick - see design blueprints, or are an interesting idea [16:13] here let me whip up a "minimalistic" one instead of just simple hold on [16:13] then you can have a lot of influence [16:13] we really welcome input [16:13] but we're a young team, and we have a remit to get certain foundations set before we start to expand it out [16:13] iainfarrell, cool :) [16:14] but we're also a small team [16:14] the new CoF is easier to gently parody than the old one was, anyway. hence http://i.imgur.com/auhrX.png [16:14] let me finishe this one in inkscape hold on [16:15] ok rushed and very minimalistic http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/logo-coz.svg [16:16] not that I prefer that one... but there are alternatives to two colours... or cut outs ... and certainly "white" logos :) [16:16] there are [16:16] and we explored them :) [16:16] this mark has to work online, on the desktop, in print all over [16:16] and we wanted something that wouldn't suffer when translated [16:17] so the example you have here [16:17] might work well on screen [16:17] iainfarrell, understood... did the original logo suffer on these? [16:17] but not in black and white [16:17] yeah, a bit actually. not easy to reproduce in black and white for example [16:17] iainfarrell, because of the values [16:17] understood [16:17] better in pure mono than in varying qualities of greyscale [16:18] and the font? has that been "officialized" [16:18] directhex: exactly which is something we did initially and community had come around to in some custom themes too [16:18] coz_, it's not final [16:18] coz_: I'm not sure what "officialized" means :) [16:19] coz_, i.e. iainfarrell won't give me a .ttf [16:19] the logo type is and I have a close to final font which we're going to be sharing soon [16:19] but it's not all finished [16:19] coz_, the *design* of the font is final, but not the actual implementation [16:19] directhex, ah I was about to ask for an example :) [16:19] exactly [16:19] so the guys working on the font are close to having a full latin type set [16:19] once we have that we'll do some internal testing [16:19] and then open a public beta [16:19] but we've not worked out the details yet [16:19] very cool .. look forward to the font [16:19] but it's coming your way soon [16:20] yeah [16:20] it's lovely [16:21] iainfarrell, all the more reason to make the logo "lovely: :) [16:21] well it does make the logo lovely [16:21] that's the one that's everywhere now [16:21] :) ok we can disagree with no bad feelings :) [16:22] coz_: course we can :) I think we made a great logo and have a foundation for some fabulous work [16:22] has anyone worked on "case" badges? the origianl one submitted a few years back is still nice in my opinion [16:22] and we want people to contribute and have conversations like this [16:23] coz_: case badge? forgive my ignorance :) [16:23] iainfarrell, let me upload the origianl hold on [16:23] k [16:24] have to find it hold on [16:25] iainfarrell, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/00.svg [16:29] ahh ok [16:30] so where was that used? [16:30] iainfarrell, well it was supposed to be used for companies making ubuntu systems so that it would be tagged with that case stickerr [16:33] coz_: I see [16:34] There are new stickers in development but they're being done as part of our work with our marketing and OEM team [16:34] so I'm not sure we'd share them because we're trying to validate that things work with Ubuntu [16:34] as opposed to people just being able to add their own stickers [16:34] otherwise it's like the wild west out there :) [16:35] iainfarrell, understood... this one was made by a fellow several years ago I just edited it for him... but is it possible to join the marketing team? [16:36] I was talking about the in house team, I don't know how we handle marketing with the community actually [16:36] I think there is a team [16:37] iainfarrell, mm too bad we cant get into the "house" team [16:39] well they're Canonical employees but I imagine they have the same remit as us to engage with the community [16:39] but I'm not sure who you'd talk to :s [16:40] iainfarrell, understood... just wondering why they pick who they pick as employees... rather background in the field etc etc :) [16:41] yeah, sorry as a project Manager in the design team I'm not the person to ask but have a look on the Ubuntu wiki [16:41] Ihave to run I'm afraid [16:41] good chatting though [16:42] catch you later === Cimi_ is now known as Cimi