[00:04] <kwwii> Cimi: hrm?
[00:05] <kwwii> zniavre: that does not show me the problem
[00:05] <kwwii> anyway, time for sleep
[00:05] <kwwii> night all
[00:26] <coz_> is the ubuntu logo on lucid going to change?? please say yes :)
[00:27] <coz_> I mean for maverick?
[03:34] <dashua> vish, You have the source .svgs for the button troughs?
[12:58] <directhex> is there a copy of the slides from http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/maverick/UDS-M-Making-Beautiful-Fonts-high.ogv anywhere? a video saying "look at this awesome font" which doesn't show the screen is kinda pointless
[13:05] <thorwil> directhex: so far it doesn't look like the slides are available. we could of course pester iainfarrell, but i asked him twice already ;)
[13:05] <directhex> don't worry about it.
[13:10] <knome> i'm sure iainfarrell is also *very* busy ;)
[13:51] <iainfarrell> Hi directhex yes they are
[13:51] <iainfarrell> Dalton Maag put them on their website
[13:51] <iainfarrell> hang on
[13:52] <iainfarrell> http://www.daltonmaag.com/docs/FontDevelopment.pdf
[14:41] <directhex> iainfarrell, oh, handy!
[14:41] <iainfarrell> directhex: indeed
[14:41] <iainfarrell> glad you're finding it interesting
[14:41] <iainfarrell> take any questions you have to the blog so we can chat about it :)
[14:42] <directhex> iainfarrell, i don't have much of an eye for design, so it's always interesting to see how subtle the differences in the design process for things can get
[14:43] <iainfarrell> directhex: it's a very complex process that's for sure
[14:43] <iainfarrell> directhex: glad to see people are interested :)
[14:48] <directhex> iainfarrell, i read somewhere that it's possible to get ahold of vector images of words rendered with the current in-progress font, for use on web pages e.g. loco sites. is that the case?
[14:48] <iainfarrell> directhex: yes the guidelines and logo assets are on the design team blog in the toolkits section
[14:49] <iainfarrell> directhex: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
[14:52] <directhex> iainfarrell, yeah, one thing i wasn't clear on with those - there's no mention of aubergine in there, which confuses things somewhat given the "white and orange" example on page 7 has different colourization to the logo used in the boot screen in lucid
[14:54] <iainfarrell> directhex: there's more to come in terms of colour
[14:54] <iainfarrell> we have to explain in more detail where we see colours being used
[14:54] <iainfarrell> but Aubergine is generally to be used sparingly where Ubuntu is concerned
[14:54] <iainfarrell> so we use it in the boot to take the edge off the black for example
[14:55] <iainfarrell> but not in many other places
[14:55] <iainfarrell> Canonical leads much more with Aubergine but doesn't use Orange as much
[14:55] <iainfarrell> because that's Ubuntu's primary colour
[14:55] <directhex> ETA? it makes it difficult to design web content relevant to lucid when neither lucid's colourization nor font are formalized clearly
[14:56] <iainfarrell> The font will come with the next release in the first instance, we're planning a public beta but more on that soon - I don't have dates yet
[14:56] <iainfarrell> If I were you I'd look at the new websites for guidance
[14:56] <iainfarrell> and we'll publish guides as soon as we can
[14:56] <iainfarrell> we have a list
[14:56] <iainfarrell> we're working through it
[14:56] <iainfarrell> I'll see if we can find a way of sharing the tasks ahead
[14:57] <iainfarrell> so you guys know what you're getting and when
[15:01] <directhex> I'll keep using Xenu for now, then. it's good enough to fool the casual observer.
[15:04] <iainfarrell> directhex: is that a free font?
[15:05] <directhex> iainfarrell, it's $30 of font
[15:06] <iainfarrell> directhex: I'd wait if I were you
[15:06] <iainfarrell> look at the CSS on the website
[15:06] <iainfarrell> for the fonts we've chosen that go well with the Ubuntu font
[15:06] <iainfarrell> and maybe update later
[15:11] <directhex> iainfarrell, that's not a bad idea as far as content goes, but there are limited options for Ubuntu-looking title fonts. Other than the old font, of course.
[15:12] <iainfarrell> yeah, I would advise against using the old font
[15:12] <iainfarrell> but using other fonts isn't necessarily bad
[15:12] <iainfarrell> the ubuntu font is our word mark and logo
[15:13] <iainfarrell> so don't feel like you have to slavishly conform
[15:13] <iainfarrell> if your website is about Ubuntu use the logo
[15:13] <iainfarrell> but it's also your website
[15:13] <iainfarrell> your project
[15:17] <directhex> "look at the css" - you know there are 27 stylesheets on ubuntu.com, right? ;)
[15:18] <iainfarrell> directhex: ok, that might not have been the most straight forward one :)
[15:18] <directhex> aha, yay for web developer toolbar
[15:19] <directhex> hm. "ubuntu beta", vera, dejavu. think that's what i already had in mind
[15:20] <iainfarrell> directhex: great minds
[15:26] <coz_> hey guys
[15:26] <coz_> so who is doing what for maverick?
[15:27] <coz_> or is most of it left up to the "official" art team?
[15:50] <directhex> iainfarrell, i like making things look like other things, as far as the technology permits anyway, hence http://imgur.com/AHlSI
[15:51] <iainfarrell> directhex: right, is that an updated login screen?
[15:51] <directhex> iainfarrell, no, it's grub
[15:52] <iainfarrell> wow
[15:52] <iainfarrell> I didn't recognise it :)
[15:52] <directhex> i wish that anti-aliased font patch would make it into grub though ¬_¬
[15:57] <iainfarrell> directhex: all in good time I'm sure
[15:57] <iainfarrell> that's an interesting one though
[15:57] <iainfarrell> because it makes grub look like a login
[15:58] <iainfarrell> which might be confusing to users who think it's a login screen if the machine has been set up for them
[15:58] <coz_> is this red circle with cutout ubuntu symbol also going to be in marverick??
[15:59] <iainfarrell> that almost doesn't matter compared to the fact that I use it every day and casually looking at it thought it was the login screen so might confuse the non hardcore user even more
[15:59] <directhex> or it might do the reverse, by making grub feel like something they're already familiar with, rather than something scary and "DOS-like". i dunno, i don't conduct user studies. i just do things for fun.
[15:59] <iainfarrell> the Ubuntu logo in the orange circle _is_ the finalised logo now
[16:00] <iainfarrell> so it will be in Maverick in some form, yes
[16:00] <coz_> iainfarrell,  oh thats a shame... I think it looks like a bad design decision
[16:00] <directhex> that and i found it rather easier to shoehorn a grub boot list into GDM's style than trying to do something with the plymouth style.
[16:00] <iainfarrell> coz_: if you look in the guidelines the circle of friends can be used without it
[16:01] <iainfarrell> but in the Ubuntu word mark
[16:01] <iainfarrell> and in most cases
[16:01] <iainfarrell> it will be in the circle
[16:02] <coz_> iainfarrell,  understood... but still a poor design.... how much "influence" do the "community" art team have with "official" art team?
[16:04] <iainfarrell> coz_: what makes you say it's a poor design, can you give me a scenario where it doesn't work?
[16:04] <coz_> iainfarrell, its a circle... first off... and a white cut out of the logo... looks as if it was done as a last minute design in a hurry
[16:05] <coz_> iainfarrell,  it doesnt work well because it is first seen as a circle  not the ubuntu logo... depending on your gestault view I suppose
[16:07] <iainfarrell> Sounds more like you don't like it coz_ more than it's a bad design
[16:07] <iainfarrell> I don't look at it and see just a circle
[16:07] <iainfarrell> it's an evolution of the circle of friends
[16:07] <coz_> iainfarrell,  well  that;s  one explanation.. but no.. it is a bad design... far to simplistic but not minimalistic
[16:07] <iainfarrell> and I assure you it wasn't quick or last minute
[16:08] <coz_> iainfarrell, I believe it was not last minute
[16:09] <iainfarrell> coz_: I think we'll have to agree to disagree :)
[16:10] <coz_> iainfarrell,  but after 6 years of ubuntu... and all of the available ..more interesting designs.. just online... this one is tooo simplisitc   and yes I suppose there is nothing to do but agree to disagree :)
[16:10] <iainfarrell> We worked hard to make something that was simple but didn't leave the good things like the idea of the circle of friends behind
[16:11] <directhex> coz_, some art decisions are good, some are bad. i don't see the CoF refresh as bad
[16:11] <iainfarrell> and you're welcome to play with it and throw ideas around
[16:11] <coz_>  directhex   understood
[16:11] <iainfarrell> which is the great thing about this project of ours
[16:11] <iainfarrell> plus we couldn't throw out the COF when so many people have tattoos of it :D
[16:11] <coz_> iainfarrell,  yes but again ...how much influence does the "community art team" have on the "official art team" ?
[16:12] <directhex> coz_, when all's said & done, it's the old CoF in monochrome.
[16:12] <coz_> directhex,  yes exactly...
[16:13] <iainfarrell> coz_: I think if your contributions are in line with the work we're doing on maverick - see design blueprints, or are an interesting idea
[16:13] <coz_> here let me whip up a "minimalistic" one instead of just simple hold on
[16:13] <iainfarrell> then you can have a lot of influence
[16:13] <iainfarrell> we really welcome input
[16:13] <iainfarrell> but we're a young team, and we have a remit to get certain foundations set before we start to expand it out
[16:13] <coz_> iainfarrell,  cool :)
[16:14] <iainfarrell> but we're also a small team
[16:14] <directhex> the new CoF is easier to gently parody than the old one was, anyway. hence http://i.imgur.com/auhrX.png
[16:14] <coz_> let me finishe this one  in inkscape hold on
[16:15] <coz_> ok rushed and very minimalistic     http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/logo-coz.svg
[16:16] <coz_> not that I prefer that one... but there are alternatives  to  two colours... or cut outs ... and certainly "white" logos :)
[16:16] <iainfarrell> there are
[16:16] <iainfarrell> and we explored them :)
[16:16] <iainfarrell> this mark has to work online, on the desktop, in print all over
[16:16] <iainfarrell> and we wanted something that wouldn't suffer when translated
[16:17] <iainfarrell> so the example you have here
[16:17] <iainfarrell> might work well on screen
[16:17] <coz_> iainfarrell,   understood...  did the original logo suffer on these?
[16:17] <iainfarrell> but not in black and white
[16:17] <iainfarrell> yeah, a bit actually. not easy to reproduce in black and white for example
[16:17] <coz_> iainfarrell,  because of the values
[16:17] <coz_> understood
[16:17] <directhex> better in pure mono than in varying qualities of greyscale
[16:18] <coz_>  and the font?  has that been "officialized"
[16:18] <iainfarrell> directhex: exactly which is something we did initially and community had come around to in some custom themes too
[16:18] <directhex> coz_, it's not final
[16:18] <iainfarrell> coz_: I'm not sure what "officialized" means :)
[16:19] <directhex> coz_, i.e. iainfarrell won't give me a .ttf
[16:19] <iainfarrell> the logo type is and I have a close to final font which we're going to be sharing soon
[16:19] <iainfarrell> but it's not all finished
[16:19] <directhex> coz_, the *design* of the font is final, but not the actual implementation
[16:19] <coz_> directhex,   ah I was about to ask for an example :)
[16:19] <iainfarrell> exactly
[16:19] <iainfarrell> so the guys working on the font are close to having a full latin type set
[16:19] <iainfarrell> once we have that we'll do some internal testing
[16:19] <iainfarrell> and then open a public beta
[16:19] <iainfarrell> but we've not worked out the details yet
[16:19] <coz_>  very cool .. look forward to the font
[16:19] <iainfarrell> but it's coming your way soon
[16:20] <iainfarrell> yeah
[16:20] <iainfarrell> it's lovely
[16:21] <coz_> iainfarrell,  all the more reason to make the logo "lovely: :)
[16:21] <iainfarrell> well it does make the logo lovely
[16:21] <iainfarrell> that's the one that's everywhere now
[16:21] <coz_> :)  ok we can disagree with no bad feelings :)
[16:22] <iainfarrell> coz_: course we can :) I think we made a great logo and have a foundation for some fabulous work
[16:22] <coz_> has anyone worked on "case" badges?  the origianl one  submitted a few years back is still nice in my opinion
[16:22] <iainfarrell> and we want people to contribute and have conversations like this
[16:23] <iainfarrell> coz_: case badge? forgive my ignorance :)
[16:23] <coz_> iainfarrell,  let me upload the origianl hold on
[16:23] <iainfarrell> k
[16:24] <coz_> have to find it   hold on
[16:25] <coz_> iainfarrell,    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/UBUNTU/00.svg
[16:29] <iainfarrell> ahh ok
[16:30] <iainfarrell> so where was that used?
[16:30] <coz_> iainfarrell,  well it was supposed to be used  for companies making ubuntu systems  so that it would be tagged with that case stickerr
[16:33] <iainfarrell> coz_: I see
[16:34] <iainfarrell> There are new stickers in development but they're being done as part of our work with our marketing and OEM team
[16:34] <iainfarrell> so I'm not sure we'd share them because we're trying to validate that things work with Ubuntu
[16:34] <iainfarrell> as opposed to people just being able to add their own stickers
[16:34] <iainfarrell> otherwise it's like the wild west out there :)
[16:35] <coz_> iainfarrell,   understood... this one was made by a fellow several years ago I just edited it for him... but  is it possible to join the marketing team?
[16:36] <iainfarrell> I was talking about the in house team, I don't know how we handle marketing with the community actually
[16:36] <iainfarrell> I think there is a team
[16:37] <coz_> iainfarrell,  mm  too bad we cant get into the "house" team
[16:39] <iainfarrell> well they're Canonical employees but I imagine they have the same remit as us to engage with the community
[16:39] <iainfarrell> but I'm not sure who you'd talk to :s
[16:40] <coz_> iainfarrell,  understood... just wondering why they pick who they pick as employees... rather background in the field etc etc :)
[16:41] <iainfarrell> yeah, sorry as a project Manager in the design team I'm not the person to ask but have a look on the Ubuntu wiki
[16:41] <iainfarrell> Ihave to run I'm afraid
[16:41] <iainfarrell> good chatting though
[16:42] <iainfarrell> catch you later