[01:00] ping flan, godbyk? [01:01] humphreybc: pong [01:01] thank god! [01:01] I need some help with python :( [01:01] I have to have these last couple of labs done by the end of this week and i'm super stuck [01:02] I can try to help. [01:02] (Though I'm by no means an expert at python.) [01:02] Have a look at this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443040/ [01:03] I'm trying to take the code that checks whether the ball has hit the mit, and put it in its own function called distance_circles() [01:03] I've done that already, but now I don't know how or where to call that block of code so the program functions normally again [01:05] where was the code being called from before? [01:06] it wasn't, it was just chucked on the end of the move function [01:06] so call distance_circles from the end of the move function? [01:07] tried that [01:07] says it's not defined [01:08] did you call self.distance_circles()? [01:08] (remember your friend 'self'?) [01:08] ugh [01:08] of course, why didn't I put a self in front of it [01:09] like everything else in the file... [01:11] we need to have a skype call so you can explain all this crazy stuff to me [01:11] okay, so that works now, but after I catch the ball for the first time, my "mitt" disappears [01:11] no nevermind [01:11] was just some random anomaly [01:11] so now apparently I need to make the program quit when somebody reaches 10 points [01:11] a new function? [01:14] what's it do now? just loop forever? [02:49] Still looking for help, humphreybc? [02:51] flan: well, you could help me figure out how to store this stuff in a dictionary: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443078/ [02:52] So I'm taking my matrix as a list, grabbing each value and I want to insert it into a dictionary where the key is the location of the value in the matrix, and the value is literally the integer in that position [02:58] So [0][0] should be 3 and [2][2] should be 0? [02:58] Or are you looking for 0: 3, 8: 0? [02:59] yeah, 0,0 should be [02:59] 3 [03:00] for (row, sub_matrix) in enumerate(matrix): [03:00] for (column, value) in enumerate(sub_matrix): [03:00] so the dictionary output should be something like, matrix = {(0,0): 3, (1,0): 1)} etc [03:01] That's a bit more readable than wrapping range() and len(). Faster, too. [03:01] After that, it's pretty much exactly what you just wrote. [03:02] sparse[(row, column)] = value [03:02] return sparse #at the end of the function [03:02] = value will work? [03:02] just using value? [03:03] If you used my forloop structure, yes. [03:03] I have to use the range thing [03:03] Using yours, it'd be matrix[row][col]. [03:03] wrapping all that [03:03] Really? That's icky. :( [03:03] enumerate() is so much nicer. [03:03] yeah, I know [03:03] but we haven't learnt that yet so they'd know I cheated :P [03:04] Or, y'know, read the Python tutorial. [03:04] I'm pretty sure that's in there. [03:04] Okay, anyway... [03:04] (For such a small data-set, it doesn't really matter) [03:05] Going backwards will be a little more difficult, but not too bad. [03:05] yeah [03:05] so now I have to go backwards [03:05] I assume you haven't learned sorted() yet. [03:05] we have, sort of [03:05] lol [03:05] it's alluded for us to "check it out" type thing [03:05] (It works like enumerate(), sorting a list of values as part of the iteration process) [03:05] (They're usually introduced together) [03:05] (As well as reversed()) [03:07] so how would I go backwards? [03:07] for ((row, column), value) in sorted(sparse.iteritems()): [03:07] * flan uses naive testing. [03:08] if row == len(matrix): #You declare this as [] at the start of the function [03:08] column = [] [03:08] else: [03:08] column = matrix[row] [03:08] column.append(value) [03:09] #Fault-prone, but it's fine for this data. [03:09] #You should be able to improve on it, if you have time. [03:09] and then return matrix? [03:09] Yeah. [03:10] iteritems() creates an iterator that steps through every key/value pair in the dictionary, returning them as a tuple. [03:10] sorted() will sort it, obviously, with the key being an implicitly orderable structure, given you you've declared it. [03:11] You're unpacking it in the for declaration, which is why you can access the values by name. [03:11] hmm. It's returning an empty matrix, what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/443086/ [03:12] And then you're simply testing to see if the row-count (sorted in ascending order) needs an extra element to hold the columns. [03:12] Oh. [03:12] I forgot a step. [03:12] Right after column = [], add matrix.append(column). [03:12] Otherwise the column will just get garbage-collected and you'll get an exception. [03:14] Oh... [03:14] I didn't realize you actually had a sparse sample. [03:14] Lemme rethink this. [03:15] A lot. [03:15] lol [03:15] I forgot what a sparse matrix was. [03:18] One problem is that the returned value was nested one level too deep. [03:18] But I need to revise some other stuff. [03:18] For padding. [03:18] I'll leave it naive for you to improve, though. [03:19] who what huh? [03:25] http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/sparse.py [03:25] Doesn't pad to three columns. [03:25] That's an easy exercise for the reader, if you think it's necessary. [03:26] (It just involves iterating over matrix and looking for rows with fewer than three values in them and appending enough 0s to fill everything) [03:26] (Assuming three is some kind of magic number) [03:27] It's also possible to make the code cleaner. [03:27] I recommend giving it a shot, if you can spare a little while. [03:27] It'll help you to understand more about iteration. [03:58] Did you get my link and associated commentary, humphreybc? [04:51] humphreybc: "We have a new yelp with a very clean interface that is using webkit and is ready for Mallard docs." [04:51] found that in a gnome-shell post in liferea just now [06:22] godbyk: http://www.interesting.co.nz/resume.html [06:22] embedded PDF down the bottom [06:22] I painfully re-created the whole thing in open office writer [06:23] cool [06:24] can you make the scribd thing taller (so I don't have to scroll)? [06:24] Notice how all the text is selectable and the hyperlinks work :P [06:24] maybe, I'll have a look [06:24] refresh, that's as tall as I can make it apparently [06:25] it's a bit better [06:25] google also has an embedded pdf viewer. might take a look at that, too. [06:25] mmm [06:26] could you check for any spelling/grammar errors? I can send you the actual PDF if the embedded one is painful [06:26] email me the pdf and I'll look it over [06:29] okay [06:30] done! [06:33] still no old-style figures.. bummer. [06:34] the website is a link, but the email address isn't. [06:34] true [06:34] there are old style figures in my phone number! [06:34] nope. they're lining figures. [06:35] in the object, instead of 'about something', be more specific. [06:35] 'about Linux' or 'about freedom' or 'about Ubuntu' or 'about chocolate cake' or whatever it is you're passionate about. [06:36] do you guys say 'think outside the square' instead of 'think outside the box'? weird. :) [06:36] your 'objective is to get a job'. go figure! :) maybe some up with something better there. (I hate writing objectives.) [06:37] if you're wanting to highlight your experience, I'd put that section first and then education. [06:37] give me a font that I can use to make the numbers old style [06:38] for the computer web design prize, the years.. write '2007 and 2008' since there are only two. [06:38] Well, Linux Libertine will. [06:39] should 'prize' on that same line also be capitalized? [06:39] Linux Libertine doesn't? [06:39] under the UMP section. change 'in Canonical' to 'at Canonical' [06:39] I've tried Linux Libertine O, Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinium [06:40] it should. does OOo support opentype fonts yet? [06:40] try it in abiword real quick. [06:40] I don't have abiword :P [06:40] is it *that* important that the numbers be old style figures? [06:40] apt-get install abiword [06:40] there ya go. [06:40] :) [06:40] it's up to you. [06:40] it's your cv. [06:40] I'm just making suggestions. [06:40] I think it looks okay [06:40] :P [06:41] under omg!ubuntu!, the titles/positions should be capitalized (like all the others are) [06:41] have you interviewed key people in the community and at Canonical? [06:42] well they're not in both roles [06:42] but I've interviewed people from Canonical, and I've interviewed people from the community [06:42] cool. didn't know that. [06:42] * godbyk is way behind on his rss feeds. [06:42] I actually need to do some more, Joey's been pestering me [06:42] I think I'll target Ivanka, mpt or Jono next [06:43] under achievements: computer web design prize.. capitalization is inconsistent with what you have above. [06:43] same comment about the years (write '2007 and 2008') [06:43] yup [06:43] double-check the capitalization of the speech board thing. [06:43] brb, keep suggesting things though and I'll change them soon :) [06:43] (I don't know what it should be.) [06:43] k [06:44] same with the flying scholarship [06:44] it's actually "New Zealand Speech Board" [06:44] otherwise, it looks okay. [06:45] you don't use the serial comma, which makes me sad, but it's not wrong and you're consistent. (so bonus points there) [06:53] hahaha [06:55] well, should I apply then? [06:56] what's the worst they can do, say no? [06:57] heh [06:58] done@ [06:59] done! * [06:59] "Thank you for your application, support and interest in the Ubuntu project and Canonical. Due to the high volume of applications that we receive, we regret that we are unable to respond to all candidates individually. If you have not received any communication from us within 3 weeks of receipt of this mail, please assume your application has been unsuccessful." [07:00] apparently Canonical take ages to get all the paperwork sorted once you get hired, some people I talked to at UDS said it took around 6 months! [07:00] and David Siegel said it took 10 months for him to get a visa to move to London haha [07:01] wow [07:01] ya [07:01] anyway, I'm going to start walking home now [08:24] morning all [09:27] What are other channels where I might get good advice on software for managing HTML documents, especially creating indices and TOCs? [09:30] edakiri: what do you need help with? [09:32] nisshh: I wish to write all my documents in HTML. I am looking for Software that can create an Index, or Table of Contents, or perhaps 'site map' of the documents. [09:33] edakiri: hmmm, i dont know any software that can do that for you, although you could always just structure your html code so that it formats it as an index, TOC and such [09:34] edakiri: there are a whole bunch of html editors you can use, are you on ubuntu 10.04? [09:34] nisshh: Think of if you have many headings; a software that would find all the headings and treate a table of contents. [09:34] yes [09:34] treate --> create [09:35] edakiri: ah, i see what you mean, well, thats what we use Tex for in the ubuntu manual [09:36] edakiri: Tex does all the formatting and arranging for us so all we have to do is use tex commands for formatting and then write the content [09:38] edakiri: although tex usually just handles plain text [09:38] godbyk-android: ping [09:38] godbyk: ping [09:39] edakiri: ill get godbyk to help you out, hes out tex guru [09:43] edakiri: i know that there's one or the other html authoring framework that takes care of generating a toc, but i don't recall any names [09:45] nisshh: I do not want to learn another notation (tex) just for those purposes. [09:54] edakiri: sure, any particular reason you want to use html though? [09:58] nisshh: HTML must be supported as an ultimate destination format. I must be able to have all data types of HTML (I think of data term, unsorted list, code) at my disposal. I have not found anything that produces good clean HTML. Open Office output I find insufficiently clean. HTML+CSS can represent all that I need, it is a matter of processing it. [09:59] edakiri: right, i know there are some tools for exactly this but i cannot remember what they are called [10:00] edakiri: it may be difficult finding a tool that will produce completely pristine code [10:00] I learned enough DocBook, but I found it mostly senslessly redundant to and different than HTML. [10:00] fair enough [10:01] I don't know Tex, but since it is only useful to me once it becomes, HTML I think it would be best I just stick with HTML. [10:01] sorry i cant be of more help [10:02] good luck anyway :) [10:59] godbyk: hmm , what was ben applying for? [14:59] hey daker, did you see the new ubuntu manual site design I'm working on? [14:59] I've only done the one page so far, and it's missing a couple of things, but I'm still working on it [15:00] humphreybc: have you spoken to mpt at all? [15:00] ubuntujenkins: about Quickshot? Not yet, I've been trying to track him down for the last couple of days [15:01] kk, I was meaning about the manual program and where to store the manaul [15:01] oh [15:01] yeah, that's what I meant :P [15:01] thanks [15:02] we need a name for this program I don't liek calling it "the manual program" [15:03] Ubuntu Manual Installer? [15:03] Freakin' Sweet App? [15:03] lol, not sure on the word "installer" [15:06] http://www.flickr.com/photos/gobiernodeguatemala/4656432029/sizes/l/ [15:09] opps :) [15:09] back [15:10] yeah i saw them really good humphreybc [15:10] humphreybc: that's a very big hole [15:11] that is. I have a couple of questions that I'm trying to answer. Why is it so round, what's at the bottom, why is it so dark randomly at the bottom and how fast do they fall away? (ie, time to escape?) [15:11] how deep is it? [15:12] apparently 20 metres [15:12] wow [15:12] help me answer my questions :) [15:12] Woww [15:12] here's another one: http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Guatemala-Sinkhole.jpg [15:12] there is more earth/mud at the bottom of the hole [15:13] so it doesn't go all the way through the earth? :P [15:13] and I guess there is a house there too [15:13] but at the bottom, could you walk around outside the radius of the hole on the surface, like, is it a big cave? [15:13] http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/guatemala-sinkhole/ [15:13] I will go and have a look for you [15:13] this one's apparently 100 meters deep [15:14] * ubuntujenkins looks outside :P [15:15] http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9f2OfKr8ygFy00FuMUoDG689YBQD9G2SPD83 [15:15] "I can tell you what it's not: It's not a geological fault, and it's not the product of an earthquake," said David Monterroso, a geophysics engineer at the National Disaster Management Agency. "That's all we know. We're going to have to descend." [15:15] WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DESCEND! [15:15] Wicked! [15:15] The ONLY time when being a geologist is fun [15:16] did you know that you can play flash annimation without the flash plugin ? [15:16] nope [15:16] enlighten us :) [15:17] just with javascript + HTML5 [15:17] http://smokescreen.us [15:17] here is a demo http://smokescreen.us/demos/intro.html [15:17] holy mother [15:17] http://stumbles.org.uk/John/rec/holes/Sinkhole,%20Guatemala.png [15:18] it's like, over twice as large as the statue of liberty [15:18] * humphreybc wants to drop a penny down and time how long it takes to hit the bottom, then do some physics calculations to figure out the depth [15:19] The pit emitted foul odors, loud noises and tremors, shaking the surrounding ground. A rush of water could be heard from its depths, and authorities feared it could widen or other sinkholes could open up. [15:19] It's alive! [15:21] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlapahaRiver2002.jpg [15:21] The whole river water flow goes into a sinkhole at the end [15:22] WoooWW [15:23] sinkaphobia = fear of falling through to the earths core [15:24] * humphreybc is obsessed with learning about sinkholes [15:24] thats what bill gates has because he knows that linux will eventually open a sinkhole under redmond! [15:27] humphreybc: i'd noticed [15:27] http://www.myspaceantics.com//images/myspace-graphics/funny-pictures/car-sinkhole.jpg [15:27] http://www.floridapublicadjusters.com/images/sinkhole.jpg [15:31] * humphreybc is into dams now [15:32] humphreybc: http://xkcd.com/214/ [15:33] lol [15:34] why is it that China is usually number one for the "largest dam" or "longest bridge" [15:34] this is awesome: http://www.mzungudays.com/Images/Chapters/ontheroadleg3/katse.jpg [15:34] this is also awesome: http://chenzhen.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/donghai_bridge.jpg [15:36] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Viaduc_de_Millau_1.jpg # i've been over that [15:36] gnarly [15:37] these things are freaky: http://www.greenbang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/siemens-wind-turbines.jpg [15:37] http://rene.seindal.dk/upload-kayak/2008/02/2007-08-14-171814.jpg [15:37] /topic Feats of engineering [15:37] *cough* [15:38] haha [15:38] http://wallpapers.ships-info.info/wallpapers/Knock_Nevis.jpg [15:39] that's a mother of a ship [15:41] that's a big truck: http://texaspurties.com/images/BiggestTruck.jpg [15:43] * dutchie warms up the STFU humphreybc hammer [15:43] OMG! http://www.myinterestingfiles.com/2008/09/worlds-smallest-man-meets-longest-legs-woman.html [15:44] do you not have anything else to do? [15:44] sleep lol [15:46] which I am going to do now [15:46] I love the internet [15:47] hhhhhh [15:48] right! [15:48] goodnight! [16:49] rickspencer3, ping :) [16:49] hi aquarius [16:50] rickspencer3, have you actually created an LP project for the example program? [16:50] aquarius, no, I pushed it as a branch on lp:ubuntu-developer-manual [16:50] aquarius, don't forget, the sample app is for *instructional* purposes [16:51] yep, I agree. What makes you think I do not? :) [16:51] aquarius, well, your point about Jotty, and not wanting to maintain two tomboy-like apps [16:51] anyway, the sample app is there [16:52] I also pushed a bit of LaTeX, which I cargo culted from ubuntu-manual [16:53] it's more that I don't want to build an instructional app which cannot be made into a useful app by someone who wants to keep hacking on it. If we make a note-taking app, and then someone later on says "I'd like to make this app work with my U1-synced notes, how do I do that?" and the answer is "you have to throw away three quarters of the app and reimplement it to do that" then it shows the instructional app [16:53] as hollow [16:54] do you think that we should build the whole sample app first and then decompose it into parts for each chapter afterwards? Or have many "apps" which are actually evolutionary stages in the development of one app? [16:55] uh [16:55] would it not automatically sync if you are using desktopcouch? [16:55] and in any case, most instructional apps are either recipe databases, or scribblers [16:56] it's normal for these to be added to in chapter after chapter, but without the expectation that it will turn into a "real" app [16:56] what we need to accomplish is convincing people that we have a platform where it will be fun and easy for them to create the apps that *they* envision [16:56] yes, but it won't sync *with* tomboy notes, and the notes won't show up in the U1 web interface, and you can't call the database "notes", and you'll need to invent a new and different schema for notes which rather goes against the "let's agree on data storage" principle of DC. :) [16:56] if delivering a "hollow" sample app accomplishes that, then that is fine [16:56] anyway, we're doing identica now :) [16:56] aquarius, I don't really care about tomboy [16:58] (I don't think you've pushed the latex) [16:58] aquarius, someone just metnioned this to me :/ [16:59] otp, but I'll poke at it [16:59] aquarius, KerryHatcher, yeah, I pushed the branch, but didn't add anything [16:59] :/ [16:59] bzr add, bzr commit ftw [17:00] :) [17:00] should be there now [17:01] KerryHatcher, aquarius keep in mind, I know *nothing* about using LaTeX [17:01] Same here ;) [17:01] dude, you know more than I do. :) [17:01] I copied the make file from ubuntu-manual, but I doubt it works [17:01] we are so screwed [17:01] :) [17:02] that makefile is quite heavily customised [17:02] ask godbyk about it [17:03] I disagree with you on urllib being the right way, though. I think it's OK for us because we have fast network connections :( [17:05] I'm just hopping in the shower, but I can chat about it when I get out. [17:07] I think maybe a non-blocking with a loading screen would be ok [17:08] that way there isn't a broken gui [17:08] aquarius, but what's the goal? [17:08] it's to demonstrate that you can quickly create a UI [17:09] if we throw asynch programming in people's face to *start* a *simple* app [17:09] we fail in a dramatic manner [17:09] rickspencer, good point [17:09] perhaps we should go back to Jotty if asynch out of the gate is required [17:10] I do think it's interest that it's easy to create an aynch UI though [17:10] maybe it's a good lesson to show [17:10] so I would think the first change would be to add the gio call [17:10] "look how badly this deals with poor network connections, lets re-code it using gio" [17:10] what I'm thinking is that we don't make a big deal about it being async, we just say "this is the way to fetch URLs". We barely even have to mention that it's asynchronous. If it's more complicated to think that way then we need to provide better helper functions. So we're making opinionated choices not only about the technologies in the platform, but also the best way to use them [17:10] popey, exactly [17:10] it illustrates the "poor coding practice" with an example [17:11] it's not a "poor coding practice" [17:11] no, hence the quotes :) [17:11] it works fine for lots of cases [17:11] popey, ah, right [17:11] but I think showing that you can do it better, and do it better easily, is cool [17:11] Yes [17:11] very cool [17:11] so step 1, make a UI [17:11] but I can fully see the point aquarius makes, that we should teach the 'one true way' from the outset [17:12] mmm [17:12] let me look at the code [17:12] but I'm wondering if network programming is inherently too complex to get started for a sample app [17:12] i dont like learning from a book that tells me "here's how to do something." then in the next chapter "right, forget that, throw it away" [17:12] and a Jotty-like app would be better [17:12] popey, right [17:12] we can't overwhelm from the beginning. [17:12] I like your DVD lib app on youtube [17:13] hmmmm [17:13] Stupid simple [17:13] yet very usefull [17:13] KerryHatcher, thoughts about how we could add gstreamer and such to the dvd app? [17:13] networked apps open the gates to many more possibilities than "yet another notepad/library" [17:13] yeah [17:13] just my 2p, anyway :) [17:13] well, let me look at the gio code [17:13] * aquarius grumbles at couchgrid not working. why's that, I wonder? [17:14] couchgrid not working? [17:14] wtf, that code is bug free [17:14] yeah, I must be doing something wrong. [17:14] lol [17:14] aquarius, pastebin? [17:14] well it isn't that difficult to add a video panel to play out the video if it has been *backed-up* on the local comp [17:14] self.grid = CouchGrid("ubuntumanual", record_type=DENT_RECORD_TYPE) [17:15] maybe there are no records? [17:15] I'm not sure about the practical use nor the ability of playing from DVD [17:15] and it is throwing a run time error because it can't infer keys? [17:15] nope, there are records; I've just checked in slipcover :P [17:15] Kerry, we could make it a book library [17:15] d'oh, I have to specify the keys [17:16] and then you could capture reading aloud snippets and store those or something [17:16] Or pdf e-reading thingy [17:16] aquarius, it should infer the keys from the records [17:16] it doesn't, though :) [17:16] fudge [17:16] I have a friend who has a ton of pdf books, he has asked about such an app [17:16] aquarius, could you please log a bug for me? [17:16] I need to fix that [17:19] rickspencer3, what level of programer are we targeting? Someone who wouldn't know how to do "hello world" or just someone who wouldn't know how to do it in python + glade? [17:20] KerryHatcher, a novice programmer that has written code for another platform, like the web [17:20] You're expected to know something about programming, but not necessarily anything about the Ubuntu platform. We're not teaching people what a variable is. :) [17:21] http://paste.ubuntu.com/443442/ is the diff to add basic DC support. :-) [17:21] essentially, we won't try to teach Python, but we won't assume folks are gurus in anything [17:21] if we use gio then the app will start up and display dents instantly even if the network connection is slow, 'cos the dents are in DC :) [17:22] rickspencer3, adding a fetch_url function to quickly.helpers (or some similar name) would be cool, I think -- part of building an app on the platform will show us which bits in the platform could do with being simpler and give us the opportunity to fix them. :) [17:22] any preferences as to the name for quickly helper functions? [17:23] aquarius, I think that would go in quickly-widgets package [17:23] and should be bound to a subclass of progress box [17:23] ah cool. I wasn't sure whether it should go in there because it's not a widget [17:23] ooh, sneaky idea; so in order to fetch a URL you *have* to get the progress box. Clever. [17:25] and that's more good encouragement for people: they get the idea that when you do a network-y sort of thing, you should show what's going on [17:26] I thought quickly widgets was its own upstream project now? Is it still under https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly ? [17:28]