[01:00] <humphreybc> ping flan, godbyk?
[01:01] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong
[01:01] <humphreybc> thank god!
[01:01] <humphreybc> I need some help with python :(
[01:01] <humphreybc> I have to have these last couple of labs done by the end of this week and i'm super stuck
[01:02] <godbyk> I can try to help.
[01:02] <godbyk> (Though I'm by no means an expert at python.)
[01:02] <humphreybc> Have a look at this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443040/
[01:03] <humphreybc> I'm trying to take the code that checks whether the ball has hit the mit, and put it in its own function called distance_circles()
[01:03] <humphreybc> I've done that already, but now I don't know how or where to call that block of code so the program functions normally again
[01:05] <godbyk> where was the code being called from before?
[01:06] <humphreybc> it wasn't, it was just chucked on the end of the move function
[01:06] <godbyk> so call distance_circles from the end of the move function?
[01:07] <humphreybc> tried that
[01:07] <humphreybc> says it's not defined
[01:08] <godbyk> did you call self.distance_circles()?
[01:08] <godbyk> (remember your friend 'self'?)
[01:08] <humphreybc> ugh
[01:08] <humphreybc> of course, why didn't I put a self in front of it
[01:09] <humphreybc> like everything else in the file...
[01:11] <humphreybc> we need to have a skype call so you can explain all this crazy stuff to me
[01:11] <humphreybc> okay, so that works now, but after I catch the ball for the first time, my "mitt" disappears
[01:11] <humphreybc> no nevermind
[01:11] <humphreybc> was just some random anomaly
[01:11] <humphreybc> so now apparently I need to make the program quit when somebody reaches 10 points
[01:11] <humphreybc> a new function?
[01:14] <godbyk> what's it do now? just loop forever?
[02:49] <flan> Still looking for help, humphreybc?
[02:51] <humphreybc> flan: well, you could help me figure out how to store this stuff in a dictionary: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443078/
[02:52] <humphreybc> So I'm taking my matrix as a list, grabbing each value and I want to insert it into a dictionary where the key is the location of the value in the matrix, and the value is literally the integer in that position
[02:58] <flan> So [0][0] should be 3 and [2][2] should be 0?
[02:58] <flan> Or are you looking for 0: 3, 8: 0?
[02:59] <humphreybc> yeah, 0,0 should be
[02:59] <humphreybc> 3
[03:00] <flan> for (row, sub_matrix) in enumerate(matrix):
[03:00] <flan>  for (column, value) in enumerate(sub_matrix):
[03:00] <humphreybc> so the dictionary output should be something like, matrix = {(0,0): 3, (1,0): 1)} etc
[03:01] <flan> That's a bit more readable than wrapping range() and len(). Faster, too.
[03:01] <flan> After that, it's pretty much exactly what you just wrote.
[03:02] <flan> sparse[(row, column)] = value
[03:02] <flan> return sparse #at the end of the function
[03:02] <humphreybc> = value will work?
[03:02] <humphreybc> just using value?
[03:03] <flan> If you used my forloop structure, yes.
[03:03] <humphreybc> I have to use the range thing
[03:03] <flan> Using yours, it'd be matrix[row][col].
[03:03] <humphreybc> wrapping all that
[03:03] <flan> Really? That's icky. :(
[03:03] <flan> enumerate() is so much nicer.
[03:03] <humphreybc> yeah, I know
[03:03] <humphreybc> but we haven't learnt that yet so they'd know I cheated :P
[03:04] <flan> Or, y'know, read the Python tutorial.
[03:04] <flan> I'm pretty sure that's in there.
[03:04] <flan> Okay, anyway...
[03:04] <flan> (For such a small data-set, it doesn't really matter)
[03:05] <flan> Going backwards will be a little more difficult, but not too bad.
[03:05] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:05] <humphreybc> so now I have to go backwards
[03:05] <flan> I assume you haven't learned sorted() yet.
[03:05] <humphreybc> we have, sort of
[03:05] <humphreybc> lol
[03:05] <humphreybc> it's alluded for us to "check it out" type thing
[03:05] <flan> (It works like enumerate(), sorting a list of values as part of the iteration process)
[03:05] <flan> (They're usually introduced together)
[03:05] <flan> (As well as reversed())
[03:07] <humphreybc> so how would I go backwards?
[03:07] <flan> for ((row, column), value) in sorted(sparse.iteritems()):
[03:07]  * flan uses naive testing.
[03:08] <flan>  if row == len(matrix): #You declare this as [] at the start of the function
[03:08] <flan>  column = []
[03:08] <flan> else:
[03:08] <flan>  column = matrix[row]
[03:08] <flan> column.append(value)
[03:09] <flan> #Fault-prone, but it's fine for this data.
[03:09] <flan> #You should be able to improve on it, if you have time.
[03:09] <humphreybc> and then return matrix?
[03:09] <flan> Yeah.
[03:10] <flan> iteritems() creates an iterator that steps through every key/value pair in the dictionary, returning them as a tuple.
[03:10] <flan> sorted() will sort it, obviously, with the key being an implicitly orderable structure, given you you've declared it.
[03:11] <flan> You're unpacking it in the for declaration, which is why you can access the values by name.
[03:11] <humphreybc> hmm. It's returning an empty matrix, what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/443086/
[03:12] <flan> And then you're simply testing to see if the row-count (sorted in ascending order) needs an extra element to hold the columns.
[03:12] <flan> Oh.
[03:12] <flan> I forgot a step.
[03:12] <flan> Right after column = [], add matrix.append(column).
[03:12] <flan> Otherwise the column will just get garbage-collected and you'll get an exception.
[03:14] <flan> Oh...
[03:14] <flan> I didn't realize you actually had a sparse sample.
[03:14] <flan> Lemme rethink this.
[03:15] <flan> A lot.
[03:15] <humphreybc> lol
[03:15] <flan> I forgot what a sparse matrix was.
[03:18] <flan> One problem is that the returned value was nested one level too deep.
[03:18] <flan> But I need to revise some other stuff.
[03:18] <flan> For padding.
[03:18] <flan> I'll leave it naive for you to improve, though.
[03:19] <humphreybc> who what huh?
[03:25] <flan> http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/sparse.py
[03:25] <flan> Doesn't pad to three columns.
[03:25] <flan> That's an easy exercise for the reader, if you think it's necessary.
[03:26] <flan> (It just involves iterating over matrix and looking for rows with fewer than three values in them and appending enough 0s to fill everything)
[03:26] <flan> (Assuming three is some kind of magic number)
[03:27] <flan> It's also possible to make the code cleaner.
[03:27] <flan> I recommend giving it a shot, if you can spare a little while.
[03:27] <flan> It'll help you to understand more about iteration.
[03:58] <flan> Did you get my link and associated commentary, humphreybc?
[04:51] <nisshh> humphreybc: "We have a new yelp with a very clean interface that is using webkit and is ready for Mallard docs."
[04:51] <nisshh> found that in a gnome-shell post in liferea just now
[06:22] <humphreybc> godbyk: http://www.interesting.co.nz/resume.html
[06:22] <humphreybc> embedded PDF down the bottom
[06:22] <humphreybc> I painfully re-created the whole thing in open office writer
[06:23] <godbyk> cool
[06:24] <godbyk> can you make the scribd thing taller (so I don't have to scroll)?
[06:24] <humphreybc> Notice how all the text is selectable and the hyperlinks work :P
[06:24] <humphreybc> maybe, I'll have a look
[06:24] <humphreybc> refresh, that's as tall as I can make it apparently
[06:25] <godbyk> it's a bit better
[06:25] <godbyk> google also has an embedded pdf viewer. might take a look at that, too.
[06:25] <humphreybc> mmm
[06:26] <humphreybc> could you check for any spelling/grammar errors? I can send you the actual PDF if the embedded one is painful
[06:26] <godbyk> email me the pdf and I'll look it over
[06:29] <humphreybc> okay
[06:30] <humphreybc> done!
[06:33] <godbyk> still no old-style figures.. bummer.
[06:34] <godbyk> the website is a link, but the email address isn't.
[06:34] <humphreybc> true
[06:34] <humphreybc> there are old style figures in my phone number!
[06:34] <godbyk> nope. they're lining figures.
[06:35] <godbyk> in the object, instead of 'about something', be more specific.
[06:35] <godbyk> 'about Linux' or 'about freedom' or 'about Ubuntu' or 'about chocolate cake' or whatever it is you're passionate about.
[06:36] <godbyk> do you guys say 'think outside the square' instead of 'think outside the box'? weird. :)
[06:36] <godbyk> your 'objective is to get a job'. go figure! :)  maybe some up with something better there.  (I hate writing objectives.)
[06:37] <godbyk> if you're wanting to highlight your experience, I'd put that section first and then education.
[06:37] <humphreybc> give me a font that I can use to make the numbers old style
[06:38] <godbyk> for the computer web design prize, the years.. write '2007 and 2008' since there are only two.
[06:38] <godbyk> Well, Linux Libertine will.
[06:39] <godbyk> should 'prize' on that same line also be capitalized?
[06:39] <humphreybc> Linux Libertine doesn't?
[06:39] <godbyk> under the UMP section. change 'in Canonical' to 'at Canonical'
[06:39] <humphreybc> I've tried Linux Libertine O, Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinium
[06:40] <godbyk> it should. does OOo support opentype fonts yet?
[06:40] <godbyk> try it in abiword real quick.
[06:40] <humphreybc> I don't have abiword :P
[06:40] <humphreybc> is it *that* important that the numbers be old style figures?
[06:40] <godbyk> apt-get install abiword
[06:40] <godbyk> there ya go.
[06:40] <godbyk> :)
[06:40] <godbyk> it's up to you.
[06:40] <godbyk> it's your cv.
[06:40] <godbyk> I'm just making suggestions.
[06:40] <humphreybc> I think it looks okay
[06:40] <humphreybc> :P
[06:41] <godbyk> under omg!ubuntu!, the titles/positions should be capitalized (like all the others are)
[06:41] <godbyk> have you interviewed key people in the community and at Canonical?
[06:42] <humphreybc> well they're not in both roles
[06:42] <humphreybc> but I've interviewed people from Canonical, and I've interviewed people from the community
[06:42] <godbyk> cool. didn't know that.
[06:42]  * godbyk is way behind on his rss feeds.
[06:42] <humphreybc> I actually need to do some more, Joey's been pestering me
[06:42] <humphreybc> I think I'll target Ivanka, mpt or Jono next
[06:43] <godbyk> under achievements: computer web design prize.. capitalization is inconsistent with what you have above.
[06:43] <godbyk> same comment about the years (write '2007 and 2008')
[06:43] <humphreybc> yup
[06:43] <godbyk> double-check the capitalization of the speech board thing.
[06:43] <humphreybc> brb, keep suggesting things though and I'll change them soon :)
[06:43] <godbyk> (I don't know what it should be.)
[06:43] <godbyk> k
[06:44] <godbyk> same with the flying scholarship
[06:44] <humphreybc> it's actually "New Zealand Speech Board"
[06:44] <godbyk> otherwise, it looks okay.
[06:45] <godbyk> you don't use the serial comma, which makes me sad, but it's not wrong and you're consistent.  (so bonus points there)
[06:53] <humphreybc> hahaha
[06:55] <humphreybc> well, should I apply then?
[06:56] <godbyk> what's the worst they can do, say no?
[06:57] <humphreybc> heh
[06:58] <humphreybc> done@
[06:59] <humphreybc> done! *
[06:59] <humphreybc> "Thank you for your application, support and interest in the Ubuntu project and Canonical.  Due to the high volume of applications that we receive, we regret that we are unable to respond to all candidates individually. If you have not received any communication from us within 3 weeks of receipt of this mail, please assume your application has been unsuccessful."
[07:00] <humphreybc> apparently Canonical take ages to get all the paperwork sorted once you get hired, some people I talked to at UDS said it took around 6 months!
[07:00] <humphreybc> and David Siegel said it took 10 months for him to get a visa to move to London haha
[07:01] <godbyk> wow
[07:01] <humphreybc> ya
[07:01] <humphreybc> anyway, I'm going to start walking home now
[08:24] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[09:27] <edakiri> What are other channels where I might get good advice on software for managing HTML documents, especially creating indices and TOCs?
[09:30] <nisshh> edakiri: what do you need help with?
[09:32] <edakiri> nisshh: I wish to write all my documents in HTML. I am looking for Software that can create an Index, or Table of Contents, or perhaps 'site map' of the documents.
[09:33] <nisshh> edakiri: hmmm, i dont know any software that can do that for you, although you could always just structure your html code so that it formats it as an index, TOC and such
[09:34] <nisshh> edakiri: there are a whole bunch of html editors you can use, are you on ubuntu 10.04?
[09:34] <edakiri> nisshh: Think of if you have many headings; a software that would find all the headings and treate a table of contents.
[09:34] <edakiri> yes
[09:34] <edakiri> treate --> create
[09:35] <nisshh> edakiri: ah, i see what you mean, well, thats what we use Tex for in the ubuntu manual
[09:36] <nisshh> edakiri: Tex does all the formatting and arranging for us so all we have to do is use tex commands for formatting and then write the content
[09:38] <nisshh> edakiri: although tex usually just handles plain text
[09:38] <nisshh> godbyk-android: ping
[09:38] <nisshh> godbyk: ping
[09:39] <nisshh> edakiri: ill get godbyk to help you out, hes out tex guru
[09:43] <thorwil> edakiri: i know that there's one or the other html authoring framework that takes care of generating a toc, but i don't recall any names
[09:45] <edakiri> nisshh: I do not want to learn another notation (tex) just for those purposes.
[09:54] <nisshh> edakiri: sure, any particular reason you want to use html though?
[09:58] <edakiri> nisshh: HTML must be supported as an ultimate destination format. I must be able to have all data types of HTML (I think of data term, unsorted list, code) at my disposal.  I have not found anything that produces good clean HTML. Open Office output I find insufficiently clean. HTML+CSS can represent all that I need, it is a matter of processing it.
[09:59] <nisshh> edakiri: right, i know there are some tools for exactly this but i cannot remember what they are called
[10:00] <nisshh> edakiri: it may be difficult finding a tool that will produce completely pristine code
[10:00] <edakiri> I learned enough DocBook, but I found it mostly senslessly redundant to and different than HTML.
[10:00] <nisshh> fair enough
[10:01] <edakiri> I don't know Tex, but since it is only useful to me once it becomes, HTML I think it would be best I just stick with HTML.
[10:01] <nisshh> sorry i cant be of more help
[10:02] <nisshh> good luck anyway :)
[10:59] <vish> godbyk: hmm , what was ben applying for?
[14:59] <humphreybc> hey daker, did you see the new ubuntu manual site design I'm working on?
[14:59] <humphreybc> I've only done the one page so far, and it's missing a couple of things, but I'm still working on it
[15:00] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you spoken to mpt at all?
[15:00] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: about Quickshot? Not yet, I've been trying to track him down for the last couple of days
[15:01] <ubuntujenkins> kk, I was meaning about the manual program and where to store the manaul
[15:01] <humphreybc> oh
[15:01] <humphreybc> yeah, that's what I meant :P
[15:01] <ubuntujenkins> thanks
[15:02] <ubuntujenkins> we need a name for this program I don't liek calling it "the manual program"
[15:03] <humphreybc> Ubuntu Manual Installer?
[15:03] <humphreybc> Freakin' Sweet App?
[15:03] <ubuntujenkins> lol, not sure on the word "installer"
[15:06] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gobiernodeguatemala/4656432029/sizes/l/
[15:09] <daker> opps :)
[15:09] <daker> back
[15:10] <daker> yeah i saw them really good humphreybc
[15:10] <dutchie> humphreybc: that's a very big hole
[15:11] <humphreybc> that is. I have a couple of questions that I'm trying to answer. Why is it so round, what's at the bottom, why is it so dark randomly at the bottom and how fast do they fall away? (ie, time to escape?)
[15:11] <ubuntujenkins> how deep is it?
[15:12] <humphreybc> apparently 20 metres
[15:12] <ubuntujenkins> wow
[15:12] <humphreybc> help me answer my questions :)
[15:12] <daker> Woww
[15:12] <humphreybc> here's another one: http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Guatemala-Sinkhole.jpg
[15:12] <ubuntujenkins> there is more earth/mud at the bottom of the hole
[15:13] <humphreybc> so it doesn't go all the way through the earth? :P
[15:13] <humphreybc> and I guess there is a house there too
[15:13] <humphreybc> but at the bottom, could you walk around outside the radius of the hole on the surface, like, is it a big cave?
[15:13] <humphreybc> http://pinoytutorial.com/lifebytes/guatemala-sinkhole/
[15:13] <ubuntujenkins> I will go and have a look for you
[15:13] <humphreybc> this one's apparently 100 meters deep
[15:14]  * ubuntujenkins looks outside  :P
[15:15] <humphreybc> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9f2OfKr8ygFy00FuMUoDG689YBQD9G2SPD83
[15:15] <humphreybc> "I can tell you what it's not: It's not a geological fault, and it's not the product of an earthquake," said David Monterroso, a geophysics engineer at the National Disaster Management Agency. "That's all we know. We're going to have to descend."
[15:15] <humphreybc> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DESCEND!
[15:15] <humphreybc> Wicked!
[15:15] <humphreybc> The ONLY time when being a geologist is fun
[15:16] <daker> did you know that you can play flash annimation without the flash plugin ?
[15:16] <humphreybc> nope
[15:16] <humphreybc> enlighten us :)
[15:17] <daker> just with javascript + HTML5
[15:17] <daker> http://smokescreen.us
[15:17] <daker> here is a demo http://smokescreen.us/demos/intro.html
[15:17] <humphreybc> holy mother
[15:17] <humphreybc> http://stumbles.org.uk/John/rec/holes/Sinkhole,%20Guatemala.png
[15:18] <humphreybc> it's like, over twice as large as the statue of liberty
[15:18]  * humphreybc wants to drop a penny down and time how long it takes to hit the bottom, then do some physics calculations to figure out the depth
[15:19] <humphreybc> The pit emitted foul odors, loud noises and tremors, shaking the surrounding ground. A rush of water could be heard from its depths, and authorities feared it could widen or other sinkholes could open up.
[15:19] <humphreybc> It's alive!
[15:21] <humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AlapahaRiver2002.jpg
[15:21] <humphreybc> The whole river water flow goes into a sinkhole at the end
[15:22] <daker> WoooWW
[15:23] <nisshh> sinkaphobia = fear of falling through to the earths core
[15:24]  * humphreybc is obsessed with learning about sinkholes
[15:24] <nisshh> thats what bill gates has because he knows that linux will eventually open a sinkhole under redmond!
[15:27] <dutchie> humphreybc: i'd noticed
[15:27] <humphreybc> http://www.myspaceantics.com//images/myspace-graphics/funny-pictures/car-sinkhole.jpg
[15:27] <humphreybc> http://www.floridapublicadjusters.com/images/sinkhole.jpg
[15:31]  * humphreybc is into dams now
[15:32] <dutchie> humphreybc: http://xkcd.com/214/
[15:33] <humphreybc> lol
[15:34] <humphreybc> why is it that China is usually number one for the "largest dam" or "longest bridge"
[15:34] <humphreybc> this is awesome: http://www.mzungudays.com/Images/Chapters/ontheroadleg3/katse.jpg
[15:34] <humphreybc> this is also awesome: http://chenzhen.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/donghai_bridge.jpg
[15:36] <dutchie> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Viaduc_de_Millau_1.jpg # i've been over that
[15:36] <humphreybc> gnarly
[15:37] <humphreybc> these things are freaky: http://www.greenbang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/siemens-wind-turbines.jpg
[15:37] <humphreybc> http://rene.seindal.dk/upload-kayak/2008/02/2007-08-14-171814.jpg
[15:37] <dutchie> /topic Feats of engineering
[15:37] <dutchie> *cough*
[15:38] <humphreybc> haha
[15:38] <humphreybc> http://wallpapers.ships-info.info/wallpapers/Knock_Nevis.jpg
[15:39] <humphreybc> that's a mother of a ship
[15:41] <humphreybc> that's a big truck: http://texaspurties.com/images/BiggestTruck.jpg
[15:43]  * dutchie warms up the STFU humphreybc hammer
[15:43] <humphreybc> OMG! http://www.myinterestingfiles.com/2008/09/worlds-smallest-man-meets-longest-legs-woman.html
[15:44] <dutchie> do you not have anything else to do?
[15:44] <humphreybc> sleep lol
[15:46] <humphreybc> which I am going to do now
[15:46] <humphreybc> I love the internet
[15:47] <daker> hhhhhh
[15:48] <humphreybc> right!
[15:48] <humphreybc> goodnight!
[16:49] <aquarius> rickspencer3, ping :)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> hi aquarius
[16:50] <aquarius> rickspencer3, have you actually created an LP project for the example program?
[16:50] <rickspencer3> aquarius, no, I pushed it as a branch on lp:ubuntu-developer-manual
[16:50] <rickspencer3> aquarius, don't forget, the sample app is for *instructional* purposes
[16:51] <aquarius> yep, I agree. What makes you think I do not? :)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> aquarius, well, your point about Jotty, and not wanting to maintain two tomboy-like apps
[16:51] <rickspencer3> anyway, the sample app is there
[16:52] <rickspencer3> I also pushed a bit of LaTeX, which I cargo culted from ubuntu-manual
[16:53] <aquarius> it's more that I don't want to build an instructional app which cannot be made into a useful app by someone who wants to keep hacking on it. If we make a note-taking app, and then someone later on says "I'd like to make this app work with my U1-synced notes, how do I do that?" and the answer is "you have to throw away three quarters of the app and reimplement it to do that" then it shows the instructional app
[16:53] <aquarius>  as hollow
[16:54] <aquarius> do you think that we should build the whole sample app first and then decompose it into parts for each chapter afterwards? Or have many "apps" which are actually evolutionary stages in the development of one app?
[16:55] <rickspencer3> uh
[16:55] <rickspencer3> would it not automatically sync if you are using desktopcouch?
[16:55] <rickspencer3> and in any case, most instructional apps are either recipe databases, or scribblers
[16:56] <rickspencer3> it's normal for these to be added to in chapter after chapter, but without the expectation that it will turn into a "real" app
[16:56] <rickspencer3> what we need to accomplish is convincing people that we have a platform where it will be fun and easy for them to create the apps that *they* envision
[16:56] <aquarius> yes, but it won't sync *with* tomboy notes, and the notes won't show up in the U1 web interface, and you can't call the database "notes", and you'll need to invent a new and different schema for notes which rather goes against the "let's agree on data storage" principle of DC. :)
[16:56] <rickspencer3> if delivering a "hollow" sample app accomplishes that, then that is fine
[16:56] <aquarius> anyway, we're doing identica now :)
[16:56] <rickspencer3> aquarius, I don't really care about tomboy
[16:58] <aquarius> (I don't think you've pushed the latex)
[16:58] <rickspencer3> aquarius, someone just metnioned this to me :/
[16:59] <rickspencer3> otp, but I'll poke at it
[16:59] <rickspencer3> aquarius, KerryHatcher, yeah, I pushed the branch, but didn't add anything
[16:59] <rickspencer3> :/
[16:59] <rickspencer3> bzr add, bzr commit ftw
[17:00] <KerryHatcher> :)
[17:00] <rickspencer3> should be there now
[17:01] <rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, aquarius keep in mind, I know *nothing* about using LaTeX
[17:01] <KerryHatcher> Same here ;)
[17:01] <aquarius> dude, you know more than I do. :)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> I copied the make file from ubuntu-manual, but I doubt it works
[17:01] <rickspencer3> we are so screwed
[17:01] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:02] <dutchie> that makefile is quite heavily customised
[17:02] <dutchie> ask godbyk about it
[17:03] <aquarius> I disagree with you on urllib being the right way, though. I think it's OK for us because we have fast network connections :(
[17:05] <godbyk-android> I'm just hopping in the shower, but I can chat about it when I get out.
[17:07] <KerryHatcher> I think maybe a non-blocking with a loading screen would be ok
[17:08] <KerryHatcher> that way there isn't a broken gui
[17:08] <rickspencer3> aquarius, but what's the goal?
[17:08] <rickspencer3> it's to demonstrate that you can quickly create a UI
[17:09] <rickspencer3> if we throw asynch programming in people's face to *start* a *simple* app
[17:09] <rickspencer3> we fail in a dramatic manner
[17:09] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer, good point
[17:09] <rickspencer3> perhaps we should go back to Jotty if asynch out of the gate is required
[17:10] <rickspencer3> I do think it's interest that it's easy to create an aynch UI though
[17:10] <popey> maybe it's a good lesson to show
[17:10] <rickspencer3> so I would think the first change would be to add the gio call
[17:10] <popey> "look how badly this deals with poor network connections, lets re-code it using gio"
[17:10] <aquarius> what I'm thinking is that we don't make a big deal about it being async, we just say "this is the way to fetch URLs". We barely even have to mention that it's asynchronous. If it's more complicated to think that way then we need to provide better helper functions. So we're making opinionated choices not only about the technologies in the platform, but also the best way to use them
[17:10] <rickspencer3> popey, exactly
[17:10] <popey> it illustrates the "poor coding practice" with an example
[17:11] <rickspencer3> it's not a "poor coding practice"
[17:11] <popey> no, hence the quotes :)
[17:11] <rickspencer3> it works fine for lots of cases
[17:11] <rickspencer3> popey, ah, right
[17:11] <rickspencer3> but I think showing that you can do it better, and do it better easily, is cool
[17:11] <KerryHatcher> Yes
[17:11] <KerryHatcher> very cool
[17:11] <rickspencer3> so step 1, make a UI
[17:11] <popey> but I can fully see the point aquarius makes, that we should teach the 'one true way' from the outset
[17:12] <rickspencer3> mmm
[17:12] <rickspencer3> let me look at the code
[17:12] <rickspencer3> but I'm wondering if network programming is inherently too complex to get started for a sample app
[17:12] <popey> i dont like learning from a book that tells me "here's how to do something." then in the next chapter "right, forget that, throw it away"
[17:12] <rickspencer3> and a Jotty-like app would be better
[17:12] <rickspencer3> popey, right
[17:12] <KerryHatcher> we can't overwhelm from the beginning.
[17:12] <KerryHatcher> I like your DVD lib app on youtube
[17:13] <rickspencer3> hmmmm
[17:13] <KerryHatcher> Stupid simple
[17:13] <KerryHatcher> yet very usefull
[17:13] <rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, thoughts about how we could add gstreamer and such to the dvd app?
[17:13] <popey> networked apps open the gates to many more possibilities than "yet another notepad/library"
[17:13] <rickspencer3> yeah
[17:13] <popey> just my 2p, anyway :)
[17:13] <rickspencer3> well, let me look at the gio code
[17:13]  * aquarius grumbles at couchgrid not working. why's that, I wonder?
[17:14] <rickspencer3> couchgrid not working?
[17:14] <rickspencer3> wtf, that code is bug free
[17:14] <aquarius> yeah, I must be doing something wrong.
[17:14] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:14] <rickspencer3> aquarius, pastebin?
[17:14] <KerryHatcher> well it isn't that difficult to add a video panel to play out the video if it has been *backed-up* on the local comp
[17:14] <aquarius> self.grid = CouchGrid("ubuntumanual", record_type=DENT_RECORD_TYPE)
[17:15] <rickspencer3> maybe there are no records?
[17:15] <KerryHatcher> I'm not sure about the practical use nor the ability of playing from DVD
[17:15] <rickspencer3> and it is throwing a run time error because it can't infer keys?
[17:15] <aquarius> nope, there are records; I've just checked in slipcover :P
[17:15] <rickspencer3> Kerry, we could make it a book library
[17:15] <aquarius> d'oh, I have to specify the keys
[17:16] <rickspencer3> and then you could capture reading aloud snippets and store those or something
[17:16] <KerryHatcher> Or pdf e-reading thingy
[17:16] <rickspencer3> aquarius, it should infer the keys from the records
[17:16] <aquarius> it doesn't, though :)
[17:16] <rickspencer3> fudge
[17:16] <KerryHatcher> I have a friend who has a ton of pdf books, he has asked about such an app
[17:16] <rickspencer3> aquarius, could you please log a bug for me?
[17:16] <rickspencer3> I need to fix that
[17:19] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, what level of programer are we targeting? Someone who wouldn't know how to do "hello world" or just someone who wouldn't know how to do it in python + glade?
[17:20] <rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, a novice programmer that has written code for another platform, like the web
[17:20] <aquarius> You're expected to know something about programming, but not necessarily anything about the Ubuntu platform. We're not teaching people what a variable is. :)
[17:21] <aquarius> http://paste.ubuntu.com/443442/ is the diff to add basic DC support. :-)
[17:21] <rickspencer3> essentially, we won't try to teach Python, but we won't assume folks are gurus in anything
[17:21] <aquarius> if we use gio then the app will start up and display dents instantly even if the network connection is slow, 'cos the dents are in DC :)
[17:22] <aquarius> rickspencer3, adding a fetch_url function to quickly.helpers (or some similar name) would be cool, I think -- part of building an app on the platform will show us which bits in the platform could do with being simpler and give us the opportunity to fix them. :)
[17:22] <aquarius> any preferences as to the name for quickly helper functions?
[17:23] <rickspencer3> aquarius, I think that would go in quickly-widgets package
[17:23] <rickspencer3> and should be bound to a subclass of progress box
[17:23] <aquarius> ah cool. I wasn't sure whether it should go in there because it's not a widget
[17:23] <aquarius> ooh, sneaky idea; so in order to fetch a URL you *have* to get the progress box. Clever.
[17:25] <aquarius> and that's more good encouragement for people: they get the idea that when you do a network-y sort of thing, you should show what's going on
[17:26] <aquarius> I thought quickly widgets was its own upstream project now? Is it still under https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly ?
[17:28] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, aquarius  sweet. Well I'll be a good test dummy then ;)
[17:28] <rickspencer3> aquarius, lp:quidgets
[17:29] <aquarius> aha!
[17:29] <KerryHatcher> I've been a web devel for years, just got into python. I've been learning my way though bug squashing & adding features to OggConvert
[17:31] <KerryHatcher> AsynchTaskProgressBox -> Me likes
[17:38] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, just tried to compile the prologue. No luck. I'll see if I can get a hold of someone who know LaTeX
[17:38] <KerryHatcher> knows*
[17:38] <rickspencer3> I have no idea what to do
[17:41] <godbyk> Okay, I'm back now.
[17:41] <godbyk> So what's up, rickspencer3?
[17:52] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, where could I find a plan text version of the prologue?
[17:52] <rickspencer3> uh
[17:52] <rickspencer3> KerryHatcher, yeah, there isn't one
[17:52] <rickspencer3> godbyk , so we want to build ubuntu-developer-manual the same way you guys build ubuntu-manual
[17:53] <godbyk> okay
[17:53] <godbyk> how far have you gotten?
[17:53] <rickspencer3> I copied one of the chapters to get started using LaTeX
[17:53] <godbyk> or should we start at the beginning? :)
[17:53] <godbyk> 'kay.
[17:53] <rickspencer3> the beginning is good
[17:53] <godbyk> okay.
[17:54] <godbyk> so if you want to start by stealing files from us, that'll work.
[17:54] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:54] <godbyk> you'll need the following files: tufte-common.def, tufte-book.cls, ubuntu-manual.cls, main.tex, and Makefile.
[17:54] <rickspencer3> urk
[17:54] <godbyk> just drop those files into the same directory to start with.
[17:54] <rickspencer3> ah
[17:54] <rickspencer3> just copy them over without modification?
[17:55] <godbyk> yeah, for now.
[17:55] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:55] <godbyk> we can modify things in a bit.
[17:55] <godbyk> do you know what the name of your first chapter will be?
[17:55] <godbyk> I like to have each chapter's file(s) in its own subdirectory.
[17:55] <godbyk> but it's not strictly necessary.
[17:56] <rickspencer3> yeah, I copied that basic structure you guys have
[17:56] <godbyk> okay
[17:56] <rickspencer3> let me copy over the files you just mentioned
[17:56] <godbyk> next, you'll want to edit the Makefile.
[17:56] <godbyk> sure
[17:57] <rickspencer3> godbyk it looks like this now:
[17:57] <rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Projects/developer-manual$ ls
[17:57] <rickspencer3> main.tex  Makefile  prologue  revision.tex  tufte-book.cls  tufte-common.def
[17:57] <godbyk> perfect
[17:57] <rickspencer3> rick@rick-desktop:~/Projects/developer-manual$ ls prologue/
[17:57] <rickspencer3> images  prologue.tex
[17:57] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:57] <godbyk> okay.
[17:57] <rickspencer3> what's next?
[17:58] <godbyk> so next, we'll edit the Makefile
[17:58] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:58] <godbyk> You'll see the CHAPTERS at the top
[17:58] <rickspencer3> I've got it open
[17:58] <godbyk> just remove any that don't exist
[17:58] <godbyk> (so basically, everything except the prologue)
[17:59] <rickspencer3> done
[17:59] <godbyk> that's all you'll need to do in there for now.
[17:59] <godbyk> next up, edit the main.tex file.
[17:59] <godbyk> again, remove any \chapter lines that you don't have.
[17:59] <godbyk> You'll also want to comment out the \setscreenshotmax line -- just put a % at the front of it.
[18:00] <rickspencer3> hmm
[18:00] <godbyk> Following so far?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> so all the lines that start with \include that aren't prologue?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> delete them?
[18:00] <godbyk> yeah.
[18:01] <godbyk> (sorry.. I said \chapter, but meant \include)
[18:01] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:01] <rickspencer3> I think I deleted that stuff that needs to be deleted
[18:01] <godbyk> okay.
[18:02] <godbyk> you need to comment out a few things: the \setscreenshotmax line, the \input{frontmatter/glossary-entries} line
[18:02] <godbyk> change the \title and \author to whatever you like.
[18:02] <rickspencer3> oh, right
[18:03] <godbyk> comment out the half-title page stuff (starting with \makeatletter and ending with \makeatother)
[18:03] <godbyk> comment out the \pdfbookmark and \frontcover lines.
[18:03] <godbyk> and I think that should be okay now.
[18:03] <godbyk> (you can pastebin it if you want me to give it a glance-over)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> hmm, no pdf
[18:04] <godbyk> there may be some things in the ubuntu-manual.cls file we need to take care of, too.
[18:04] <rickspencer3> godbyk look about right: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443468/
[18:04] <rickspencer3> ?
[18:05] <godbyk> can you paste the main.log file?
[18:05] <godbyk> rickspencer3: looks perfect!
[18:06] <rickspencer3> there is no main.log :/
[18:06] <rickspencer3> should I copy that over too?
[18:06] <godbyk> oh.
[18:06] <godbyk> nope
[18:06] <godbyk> latex generates it when it tries to compile.
[18:06] <rickspencer3> ah
[18:06] <rickspencer3> make sense
[18:06] <godbyk> if you run 'make', what happens?
[18:06] <rickspencer3> should I check ubuntu-manual.cls first?
[18:07] <godbyk> let's try to compile first and see what complaints we get.
[18:07] <rickspencer3> oops, looks like I forgot to copy that file
[18:07] <godbyk> (there's a lot of stuff in the ubuntu-manual.cls file, so we'll deal with those issues as we come across them.)
[18:07] <godbyk> ah, that'd be helpful. :)
[18:07] <rickspencer3> oops
[18:07] <rickspencer3> got this error: /bin/bash: xelatex: command not found
[18:07] <rickspencer3> I guess I need to install something?
[18:08] <godbyk> yeah.
[18:08] <godbyk> Is ubuntujenkins around?
[18:08] <godbyk> He has the TeX Live 2009 stuff in a PPA (that's more recent than the packages that come with Lucid).
[18:08] <rickspencer3> hmm, can't see what package xelatex is in
[18:09] <godbyk> you'll either have to use the ppa or the upstream TeX Live.
[18:09] <godbyk> the Lucid packages aren't current enough to compile our stuff
[18:09] <godbyk> but xelatex would be in the texlive-xetex package (which, to reiterate, won't work).  :)
[18:10] <godbyk> rickspencer3: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/editors#install-tl2009 has instructions for installing TeX Live 2009
[18:10] <rickspencer3> yeah
[18:10] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:12] <rickspencer3> godbyk what's the difference between the one on the web page and the one in the repos for lucid?
[18:12] <godbyk> the one on the web page will have much newer versions of things than the one in the repos.
[18:13] <rickspencer3> sorry dude
[18:13] <godbyk> and we require some very-up-to-date packages.
[18:13] <rickspencer3> I went ahead and tried it with the one in the repos
[18:13] <godbyk> no skin off my back.
[18:13] <rickspencer3> will take me a while to "OK Next" through this
[18:13] <godbyk> it should work for the english version.
[18:13] <godbyk> but it won't work for all the translations we have.
[18:14] <rickspencer3> there was a problem there
[18:14] <rickspencer3> give me 5 minutes to roll back and then install as you directed
[18:14] <rickspencer3> ls
[18:14] <ubuntujenkins> I am here
[18:14] <KerryHatcher> ubuntujenkins, do you know about a PPA for Tex Live 2009?
[18:15] <godbyk> installing from upstream is the best way to keep it up to date.
[18:15] <ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: I do i made it :). Let me find the instructions, it only works on lucid atm
[18:15] <godbyk> but if you *really* like the packages, you can try out ubuntujenkins' ppa.
[18:15] <KerryHatcher> I really do :)
[18:16] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: how much of a hassle is it to update your packages regularly?  what's involved?
[18:16] <KerryHatcher> I'd be willing to help
[18:17] <rickspencer3> wow, lots of texlive-* packages getting removed :/
[18:17] <ubuntujenkins> well I just get the ones from debian and add them to the ppa. (debian is more up to date ) A few custom packages are in there for use. I have once built packages from source but they took a while
[18:17] <ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: http://paste.ubuntu.com/443474/ is the ppa info
[18:18] <ubuntujenkins> you are on lucid right?
[18:19] <KerryHatcher> 10.04 = Lucid then yes (sorry I am always forgetting the names)
[18:19] <ubuntujenkins> I am yet to test on older versions of ubuntu
[18:20] <ubuntujenkins> I will look at updating them in the 2 weeks
[18:23] <rickspencer3> godbyk I see this install is going to take a while
[18:23] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: The main problem I am going to have is my home internet is so slow and I am moving back there for my placement year
[18:23] <rickspencer3> still on arphic
[18:23] <ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: is about 3gb of download
[18:23] <rickspencer3> oh fudge!
[18:23] <rickspencer3> 3g to write a manual?
[18:24] <godbyk> rickspencer3: well, you can grab the minimal install stuff mentioned on the link I gave you.
[18:24] <rickspencer3> godbyk will you be around in like 4 hours?
[18:24] <rickspencer3> oops
[18:24] <godbyk> then manually install the extra required packages.
[18:24] <ubuntujenkins> thats whats so many people said, lots of complaints mostly translators.
[18:24] <rickspencer3> I just clicked the big button
[18:24] <godbyk> rickspencer3: yep.  I'm in the central US, so I'll be around for the next 12 hours.
[18:24] <rickspencer3> kewl
[18:24] <rickspencer3> I'm Seattle
[18:24] <godbyk> though I may be afk for a bit while I get a haircut and run errands.
[18:24] <rickspencer3> so just a tad earlier than you
[18:25] <rickspencer3> godbyk thanks man
[18:25] <godbyk> rickspencer3: no problem.
[18:25] <rickspencer3> I'll let you know how it goes
[18:25] <godbyk> rickspencer3: please do.
[18:26] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have we/are we going to add any new fonts functions into the manual that I need to look into packaging?
[18:26] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure yet.
[18:27] <ubuntujenkins> ok, Are there any possiblties that i can grab the code for whilst at uni so i don't have to download them at home?
[18:28] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: code for what?
[18:29] <ubuntujenkins> latex fetures that are not in the packages or fonts etc
[18:31] <KerryHatcher> ok so I just finished installing per ubuntujenkins
[18:31] <ubuntujenkins> that was fast
[18:31] <KerryHatcher> Got a nice fiber pipe
[18:32] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I think that the install-pkgs.sh script installs all the fonts we're currently using.
[18:32] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm not sure what you have and haven't packaged, so I don't know what's missing there (if anything).
[18:33] <ubuntujenkins> I think I covered everything in there or a far as i know
[18:33] <ubuntujenkins> fonts are easy to do if we need more
[18:34] <KerryHatcher> So I can go follow http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors now with just the PPA?
[18:34] <ubuntujenkins> yea you can get the branch and make a copy of the manual
[18:34] <KerryHatcher> branching....
[18:35] <KerryHatcher> O lulu FTW btw!
[18:35] <KerryHatcher> I'll be ordering me a copy asap
[18:35] <KerryHatcher> and maybe a few to hand out
[18:35] <godbyk> cool. :)
[18:35] <ubuntujenkins> try the code FREESHIP no idea if it still works
[18:35] <godbyk> lulu is pretty handy.
[18:36] <godbyk> on the front page of lulu.com it said there's free shipping this summer on orders over $19.95.
[18:36] <KerryHatcher> sweet
[18:37] <godbyk> brb
[18:38] <KerryHatcher> so is there no en_us option?
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> the manual is only in en_us on lulu or anywhere at the moment
[18:40] <KerryHatcher> If everything checks out okay, you should be able to run: make ubuntu-manual-LANG.pdf where LANG is the language code (see the po/ directory for a list of supported languages).
[18:40] <KerryHatcher> I just saw en_GB and en_AU
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> to get en_us just run make
[18:40] <KerryHatcher> I get an error when I compile it http://pastebin.com/yME6dLSr
[18:41] <KerryHatcher> ok I'll try that
[18:42] <KerryHatcher> O i just find it funny that I'm "compiling" a text document from source...  :)
[18:43] <KerryHatcher> Running make, it is doing its thing it looks like
[18:43] <ubuntujenkins> I think your error is po4a it is anoying, try make clean and then try doing the en_GB one again
[18:43] <KerryHatcher> I don't really care about en_GB ;) I just thought that was my only option
[18:44] <KerryHatcher> so it compiled, what now?
[18:44] <ubuntujenkins> in the folder shoudl be a mani.pdf
[18:44] <ubuntujenkins> *main.pdf
[18:45] <KerryHatcher> got it
[18:49] <ubuntujenkins> enjoy reading
[18:52] <KerryHatcher> WOOT on a stick! I got it. Just the pro. I followed what you told rick and got it !
[18:54] <KerryHatcher> Thanks!
[18:54] <ubuntujenkins> we like to help
[18:57] <KerryHatcher> Just pushed it to https://code.launchpad.net/~kerry.hatcher/ubuntu-developer-manual/trunk
[18:57] <KerryHatcher> nice base to get started from!
[19:02] <KerryHatcher> rickspencer3, you around?
[19:07] <daker> hey guys
[19:07] <daker> is launchpad working for you?
[19:08] <ubuntujenkins> as in the website or bzr stuff?
[19:08] <dutchie> it was down for maintainance earlier
[19:10] <ubuntujenkins> website works not tried bzr but KerryHatcher had it working a moment ago
[19:10] <KerryHatcher> working great for me
[19:11] <KerryHatcher> doing some house cleaning on some old projects
[19:12] <daker> oki thanks this is due to my internet connexion
[19:17] <daker> guys ,what's the rule of the Whiteboard ?
[19:17] <ubuntujenkins> write what you like but the progress of the blueprint is a good idea
[19:18] <ubuntujenkins> whos doing what and whats left to do etc
[19:20] <daker> Launchpad is a mystery
[19:27] <daker> Oh tanks ubuntujenkins
[19:28] <ubuntujenkins> no problem
[20:23] <ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher and rickspencer3 What are the plans for the dev manual as far as apport . I think a bit on how to include apport in an ap would be good. I am yet to look at wiki pages on as I plan to put it in quickshot this release. will this be in there?
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins> *will a section on apport be in there?
[20:28] <KerryHatcher> I'm not aware of one, but great idea!
[20:28] <KerryHatcher> I was just reading this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Per-package%20Apport%20Hooks
[20:28] <KerryHatcher> ironic!
[20:29] <KerryHatcher> Make a suggestion at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-developer-manual
[20:29] <ubuntujenkins> lol that link confused me as I saw "Use the source, Luke!" and my name is luke . It took me 2 minutes to realise its a star wars joke :P
[20:30]  * flan thinks of other ways to confuse Luke.
[20:30] <ubuntujenkins> thanks flan :P
[20:31] <flan> Expect fun comments in the server. <3
[20:31] <ubuntujenkins> I will keep an eye on my e-mail for those
[20:32] <flan> I think I've got the structure pretty stable now, so you shouldn't see too much meaningless noise coing from me.
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> I don't mind the noise its progress
[20:33] <daker> we will got a linux version of µtorrent
[20:34] <ubuntujenkins> I don't understand the point of torrents I have never found them faster
[20:35] <ubuntujenkins> but that porbably to the uni internet being so fast
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> KerryHatcher: should i make the suggestion as a lp question or a wishlist bug?
[20:38] <rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, you get apport support for free when you use Quickly
[20:39] <rickspencer3> :)
[20:39] <KerryHatcher> ah
[20:39] <rickspencer3> no documentation required
[20:39] <KerryHatcher> sweet
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: really how what do i add where? this could make my life even easier. quickly is full of supprises
[20:39] <KerryHatcher> i really like quickly
[20:40] <rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, when you create your project, the boiler plate includes LP support
[20:41] <rickspencer3> aquarius, I can't wait to check out your widget
[20:41] <rickspencer3> basically, you just made the whole "how do asynch fetch files from the web" a completely moot point
[20:41] <ubuntujenkins> thats what those llines of code do something like "import launchpad.......".
[20:41] <rickspencer3> you don't, you just use the widget
[20:41] <rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, I think so
[20:41] <rickspencer3> :/
[20:41] <aquarius> that was the idea. ;)
[20:41] <rickspencer3> <3
[20:42] <ubuntujenkins> rickspencer3: I will have to have a look when my exams are over.
[20:42]  * ubuntujenkins has 1088245 seconds untill its over
[20:42] <rickspencer3> aquarius, so basically, anything that is hard to document, we make easy to do
[20:42] <aquarius> yes.
[20:42] <rickspencer3> (was your basic point)
[20:42] <rickspencer3> that is so cool
[20:43] <trijntje> Can I report an error in the manual here or should I file a bug?
[20:43] <dutchie> trijntje: file a bug. it'll probably just get forgotten here ;)
[20:43] <aquarius> so then it won't be hard to do. Find all the sticking-up sharp edges in the platform, and smash them down with a mailed fist so they're not sharp edges any more. :)
[20:43] <trijntje> dutchie, will do, thanks
[20:44] <dutchie> aquarius: while saying "they're the same browser"? ;)
[20:44] <aquarius> dutchie, heh. :)
[20:45] <dutchie> oh god, that reminds me of the massive pile of SoJ episodes i have to listen to
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> but dutchie your behind in the conversation :)
[20:45] <dutchie> i don't think i ever really was in the conversation :(
[20:46] <ubuntujenkins> :(
[20:47] <dutchie> might catch up with a few tonight
[20:47] <ubuntujenkins> you can get a lot in as they are only 10mins . I like my podcasts they are all so good
[20:53] <godbyk> back
[21:01] <KerryHatcher> I'm going to be AFK for a bit so I can get out of the office on time. I'll be back later
[21:41] <daker> godbyk, http://code.google.com/p/gource/
[21:41] <godbyk> daker: I know; I've ran it against our project before.
[21:41] <godbyk> Someone posted a YouTube video of part of it a while back.
[21:42] <daker> great
[21:42] <dutchie> that was humphrebc iirc
[21:42] <dutchie> +y
[21:42] <godbyk> I think someone else created the video, though.
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> night all
[22:51] <rickspencer3> aquarius, jeezum urlfetchprogressbox is perfect!
[22:52] <rickspencer3> now I just need to figure out how to write a test for it
[23:06] <aquarius> rickspencer3, I'm not really sure how to test gui apps. I did look in the tests folder, but there isn't anything in there :)
[23:06] <rickspencer3> uh
[23:06] <rickspencer3> I have lots of tests for my widgets
[23:06] <rickspencer3> BUT
[23:06] <rickspencer3> if they connect to the web and such, they are hard to test
[23:07] <rickspencer3> also, I don;t know how to write tests for things that are asynch :/
[23:07] <rickspencer3> nevermind, I'll ask jml
[23:07] <rickspencer3> anyway, aquarius, it works *solid*
[23:07] <rickspencer3> I already push a new quidgets with it, added it to the start app, and will blog about it's awesome beauty tonight
[23:09] <aquarius> o rly? where are the tests? tests/test_prompts.py is practically empty :)
[23:10] <aquarius> I did look :)
[23:11] <rickspencer3> that's for the prompts
[23:11] <rickspencer3> which do lack tests, for the reasons I just listed :/
[23:12] <rickspencer3> because I suck and don't know what I'm dong
[23:12] <rickspencer3> but quickly/widgets/tests has tests
[23:12] <rickspencer3> godbyk, so I'm back, and am about to run make
[23:13] <rickspencer3> nevermind
[23:13] <rickspencer3> looks like my stuff didn't get installed
[23:13] <rickspencer3> :/
[23:13] <rickspencer3> ubuntujenkins, so should I use http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/editors#install-tl2009
[23:13] <rickspencer3> or the PPA?
[23:13] <rickspencer3> godbyk, ^
[23:13] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:15] <rickspencer3> nm, I'm going with the website since I already installed all that goo
[23:15] <godbyk> rickspencer3: if you've already installed the TL2009 using the upstream installer, then I'd just stick with that.
[23:15] <godbyk> It'll always be more up-to-date than ubuntujenkins' packages.
[23:16] <godbyk> (It comes with its own package manager/updater.)
[23:16] <rickspencer3> godbyk, looks like it hadn't finished installing
[23:16] <godbyk> 'kay.
[23:16] <rickspencer3> so I kicked the install off again :/
[23:16] <godbyk> It can take a while.
[23:16] <godbyk> Did it say it was done?
[23:16] <rickspencer3> I dunno
[23:16] <rickspencer3> I guess I closed the term window
[23:16] <godbyk> Ah.
[23:16] <godbyk> Oops.
[23:17] <rickspencer3> tbh, I forgot I was installing it
[23:18] <rickspencer3> but I don't care because I am so happy about UrlFetchProgressbox