[00:25] TheMuso, does syncing a new package from Debian require archive-admin permissions? [00:25] robert_ancell: it requires an archive admin to do it yes. [00:26] Until the magical “sync me!” button gets implemented, at least. [00:30] Thinking of which... it's time to upload Xserver 1.8.1 + all the goodies. [00:30] RAOF: oh btw [00:30] lifeless: Yah? [00:30] RAOF: please please please figure out how to disable the 96dpi pinning [00:30] RAOF: I just went multimonitor [00:30] and it really wrecks that [00:31] my CRT != my laptop LCD in DPI, resolution or aspect ratio. [00:31] lifeless, that's not X that's pinning it, it's gnome [00:31] lifeless, and it's easy to change, just go to the Appearance system tool, and go into the Fonts section [00:31] bryceh: how so? xrandr is showing it [00:31] Well, it's actually X too, isn't it? [00:32] there's an input widget for selecting a different DPI [00:32] sorry, xdpyinfo [00:32] RAOF, shouldn't be anymore [00:32] bryceh: I've had my font setting set correctly for 10 years [00:32] bryceh: when I set the mm in my xorg.conf correctly, and it gets ignored - even though the x and y sizes are reported correctly, I blame X [00:32] xdpyinfo calculates based on the resolution and physical dimensions of the screen - you can check those numbers in your calculator to see what the right dpi is [00:33] I don't think anything in X is "pinning" it [00:33] screen #0: [00:33] dimensions: 2840x1050 pixels (751x278 millimeters) [00:33] resolution: 96x96 dots per inch [00:34] thats weird too, let me unplug the CRT for a sec [00:35] yep, that works out to 96 dpi [00:35] so it's correct... still it may not be what you *want* [00:35] dimensions: 1440x900 pixels (381x238 millimeters) [00:35] resolution: 96x96 dots per inch [00:35] thus the ability to override it [00:36] Those dimensions are *wrong* [00:36] mine says: [00:36] dimensions: 1920x1080 pixels (508x285 millimeters) [00:36] resolution: 96x96 dots per inch [00:36] and the fysical dimensions are incorrect :P [00:36] dimensions: 1280x1024 pixels (338x270 millimeters) [00:36] resolution: 96x96 dots per inch [00:36] * RAOF suspects that something is calculating the physical size based on the resolution & 96 DPI [00:37] bryceh: so, in xorg.confg I have DisplaySize 261 163 [00:37] it's only 480mm wide [00:37] bryceh: thats very different to 2840x1050 [00:37] blah unit confusion [00:37] thats different oo 751x278 [00:37] RAOF, possibly [00:38] bryceh: my laptop screen is 1440x900 - and 261mm x 163mm [00:38] so my screen is really closer to 100 dpi than to 96 dpi [00:38] Well, my monitor is ~260mm wide, and the EDID is correct: [ 62.251] (II) intel(0): clock: 74.1 MHz Image Size: 261 x 163 mm [00:39] I has silly 92 dpi forced here [00:39] and mine is 144dpi [00:39] 96 is *waaay* off [00:39] RAOF: what does your xdpyinfo claim [00:39] I've already pasted it above. [00:39] ahright\ [00:39] yes, its wrong [00:39] 381x238 mm [00:39] on karmic: dimensions: 3840x1200 pixels (1036x324 millimeters) [00:39] resolution: 94x94 dots per inch [00:40] which is correct dimensions according to xrandr [00:40] bryceh: check your edid output in the X log [00:41] bryceh: my xrandr gets it more right than xdpyinfo, but xrandr doesn't report the dpi being reported to programs [00:41] I presume whatever you have set in gnome has it's own affect [00:41] Yes, on GTK apps. [00:42] DVI-I-2 connected 1280x1024+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 376mm x 301mm [00:42] dimensions: 1280x1024 pixels (338x270 millimeters) [00:42] that's xrandr and xdpyinfo from a lucid system... clearly wrong [00:44] * ajmitch sees that the correct dimensions are found in Xorg.0.log, but xdpyinfo says differently (and 96DPI, again) [00:44] I suspect we're talking about https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 [00:44] Freedesktop bug 23705 in Server/general "xserver 1.7.0rc0 uses wrong dimensions" [Normal,Reopened] [00:45] I doubt my my laptop screen is 423 mm wide [00:45] lifeless, you can add that ^^ watch on your bug report [00:46] I haven't bugginated yet [00:46] I thought it was widely known [00:46] bryceh: Incidentally, this is what I was talking about at UDS when DPI came up :) [00:57] hmm, if you look at xorg-server and grep on dpi you can see the history of this [00:57] we carried various patches to force it to 96 for quite a while, but then finally dropped that (and later reintroduced it via gnome) [00:57] it seems meanwhile upstream took the patch [00:58] I think forcing dpi something for all is silly [00:59] that's kind of my opinion too, but I can see the point in having it forced since it breaks quite a few people. but I rather see it forced at the window manager layer than at the X layer [01:00] true that [01:00] but maybe upstream knows something we don't [01:01] RAOF, anyway you could doublecheck with seb128 that we're still having GNOME do 96 dpi and if so revert that upstream change if you'd like. [01:01] iirc when I talked to the kubuntu guys they preferred to configure to not force to 96 dpi but you could doublecheck that with Riddell [01:02] anyway [01:02] * bryceh goes back to NOT working on X.org for the afternoon ;-) [01:02] bryceh: ye, and it's simple one config option if we choose otherwise [01:19] lifeless: Incidentally, if you're using an external monitor I assume you've got one of those docking stations for the x201? How are they? [01:20] no [01:20] just plugged in [01:20] RAOF: so, can you file a bug on this, as I've no particular interest in tracking all the bits [01:20] just in seeing it work better ;) [01:24] Does your x201 have digital output ports? That's the main thing lacking from my x200 [01:26] no [01:26] standard analogue VGA D connector [03:41] TheMuso, can you sponsor nautilus, libwnck? Thanks [03:41] robert_ancell: sure [04:01] robert_ancell: uploading both. [04:01] * TheMuso -> lunch. [04:31] RAOF, x200 ultrabase has a displayport connector, i have one but haven't bought a displayport to dvi converter to use it with my monitor [04:31] RAOF, the ultrabase is the part that snaps on the bottom that can hold another hd or optical drive [04:31] ccheney: Yeah. I was looking at that. [04:32] And while I'm in the “stuff I'd like to spend money on” store, a nice big 20+ inch monitor would also be high on the list :) [04:32] i guess vga projectors are still more common than digital ones [04:33] 20"+ monitors are fairly cheap unless you go for IPS (which is better and what i have), i have an old HP 23" IPS [04:33] I'd have preferred Lenovo to go the Apple route - small, non-standard connector + adapters to everything. [04:33] mini display port is actually standardized now and iirc free to license [04:34] but i'm not sure if you can go from that to vga, at least cheaply since it would need digital to analog converter in the adaptor [04:34] hmm actually its only $20 for the apple apparently so is not bad === oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_ === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [09:20] good morning. === ara_ is now known as ara === ara_ is now known as ara === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:43] hi all [13:44] if i boot my ubuntu desktop without monitor connected i cannot get logon through VNC, only putty...any solutions? [13:45] freud_: thats off topic for this channel ask on #ubuntu [13:45] this is for development of ubuntu desktop [13:45] not support [13:46] sorry [13:47] freud_: its fine :) [13:55] Hello, I have a question about XDG menus, an app. has those categories in .desktop file: Categories=Education;Literature;Science;Electronics [13:55] usually Electronics menu is not installed by default on systems [13:56] the question is, how can I make this app. appear in Science *ONLY IF* Electronics menu does not exist ? Otherwise if, the menu exists, it should ONLY appear in Electronics menu ? [13:56] AnAnt: it should just go into science main [13:57] fagan: meaning ? [13:57] if electronics doesnt exist it will just go into the main science part [13:58] it would go into electronics if it exists [13:58] fagan: it would appear in BOTH electronics & science if electronics exist [13:58] electronics is a sub menu to science [13:58] no, it isn't [13:59] anyway electronics isnt in the menu anyway so it doesnt matter [13:59] fagan: it is if you install extra-xdg-menus package [14:00] hmmmm then I dont really know id say it might have a link in both [14:01] like the way evolution used to be in internet and office [14:34] Riddell, are you processing sync requests today? [14:36] seb128, i saw you commented on my two sync requests saying it happens automatically but they haven't been synced yet and were uploaded to debian over a week ago, how often does it happen? i need those two packages for OOo [14:37] er the latest versions were uploaded over a week ago, they had been in debian but not ubuntu prior to that also [14:38] hmm nm, they used to be in experimental before then, so only been in unstable a little over a week === DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf [16:04] didrocks, tickle === cking_ is now known as cking === cking is now known as cking-afk [18:17] kenvandine: hey, desktopcouch which doesn't want to start on a fresh maverick alpha1, known bug? [18:18] yes [18:18] it doesn't like the maverick kernel :/ [18:18] if you boot the 2.6.32 kernel it'll work [18:18] kenvandine: ok, no need to feed a new bug so :) [18:18] chad is working on that [18:18] :) [18:18] kenvandine: well, it was working on the first 2.6.34 kernel [18:19] yeah, i think it was [18:19] (as I dist-upgraded to maverick then and used it) [18:19] but just reinstalled from scratch and just saw that :) [18:19] we think it is the proc digging they do to find the port [18:20] ok, I just stopped at "I can't find the port" :) [18:20] yup :) [18:20] they make some proc digging for that? [18:20] how it works, [18:20] ? [18:20] yes... [18:20] it is kind of ugly [18:20] and the regex never finds a match now [18:21] oh bad :/ [18:21] ok, hope that will be fixed easily :) [18:22] ok, signing off again (and for good) for the week-end! [18:22] later! [18:22] kenvandine: have a good week-end too! [18:23] you too! [18:26] didrocks, kenvandine: we have a bug about lpi being broken which is due to normal users not having access to proc entries it seems [18:26] it's likely some new security thing [18:27] yeah [18:27] got a bug number? [18:27] not sure if that can break the desktopcouch code [18:27] pedro_, ^ [18:27] no but I know pedro triaged some duplicates [18:27] didrocks, do you plan to still ship the 2D fallback UI in maverick for netbook ? or do i need to do some special stuff for armel ? [18:27] or check with kees [18:27] i think that is the same issue then [18:33] seb128: I saw the lpi bug but didn't read it (yet), ok, thanks for the notice [18:33] ogra: well, I'm not sure for now. I would say "no" as the 2 interfaces are quite different [18:33] hrm [18:33] ogra: we still can ship the 2 sessions (one une "unity" and one une "efl") [18:33] we need some similar behavior to the old way ... i.e. autodetection [18:34] for arm at least [18:34] the image will come without 3D support but there will be drivers you can install from a ppa or multiverse [18:34] i.e. imagine nvidia [18:35] ogra: hum, ok, and can depends on which drivers is installed changed the default session? [18:35] (just thinking…) [18:35] that would be best, yes [18:35] i think asac was working on a way to hook that into jockey [18:35] ogra: for instance, there was a bug in an kernel update, people got fallback to efl and were puzzled [18:35] but effectively the old way we had in lucid was good [18:36] ogra: it would be better, I still have my script to change default session. It's just about triggering it at the right time [18:36] ok [18:36] lets talk about that later (i currently dont even have images) the issue came up in a customer call today [18:37] if there is any way thats suitable i'm fine [18:37] and i'll happily take the task to work on it, i just wnat to have it on the desktop team radar that such issues exist [18:37] ogra: ok, let's discuss in a week (I'll upload unity next week into maverick, the time to write MIR, seed it, and so on) [18:37] ogra: and then we will concentrate on that :) [18:38] yeah, no hurry [18:38] ogra: understood :) [18:38] will take me another week to even get images [18:38] ogra: we still can retake my code for netbook-launcher in the worst case :) [18:38] or even two [18:38] since we're redoing our way of images completely for arm [18:38] well, the guys want uinity actually :) [18:39] Laney: did you test banshee before syncing it into ubuntu? It's broken here FYI [18:39] ogra: that's understandable :) [18:39] hehe [18:39] ogra: do you have good driver now for it? [18:39] no, thats the point [18:39] they want to work it out during maverick development [18:40] that would rock :-) [18:40] the HW uses GLES and nobody ever tested unity on that [18:40] there are roumors that clutter works very bad [18:40] but nobody has ever proven that [18:40] hum, I never tried GLES, but I won't be surprized that clutter suffers on it [18:41] well, there are different camps ... clutter guys claim it works fine [18:41] (but have never proven it) [18:42] GLES guys claim its dog slow (but have never proven it) :) [18:42] its a funny situation [18:42] heh :) [18:42] well, testing is the only way to know, so [18:42] so having unity in the arm images and having the HW guys provide use a driver will actually get us some data :) [18:42] s/use/us/& [18:43] sure, we'll see :) [18:43] thansk for your time :) [18:43] go back to work ! :) [18:43] ogra: you're welcome ;) [18:43] and have a nice weekend [18:43] ogra: well, today is off in fact, that's why I didn't answer you at your first ping [18:44] just get annoyed by desktopcouch crashing, and then by banshee too :) [18:44] but this time, /me out [18:44] enjoy your week-end ogra [18:44] yeah, you too [18:44] thanks === cking-afk is now known as cking [19:04] didrocks: do you know something about jockey? [19:09] didrocks, seb128, kenvandine bug 589656 ; kees is following on it now [19:09] Launchpad bug 589656 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "help -> report a problem doesn't work on Maverick (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 14)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589656 [19:09] (sorry was at lunch) [19:10] pedro_, thx [19:10] ah already discussed in the other channel ;-) [19:10] :) === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] [19:35] kenvandine, libgwibber for vala ftw! [19:35] got mono too... but it crashes atm [19:36] :) [19:41] kenvandine: hey wait, does this mean an app like Pino could libgwibber? [19:42] jcastro, what would that even mean? [19:42] weird [19:42] Oh I know it's weird [19:43] :) [19:43] rickspencer3: it's like a library for twitter and all that right? [19:43] jcastro, right [19:43] jcastro, sort of [19:43] I thought Pino was basically a gwibber [19:43] it isn't complete enough for that sort of thing though [19:43] kenvandine, you mean "yet" ;) [19:44] yup :) [19:47] rickspencer3: I'm just saying, if I were writing a competing app I would use the library and make Ken do all the work! [19:47] While I lay back and collect all the money! [19:47] hehe [19:47] jcastro, yup [19:47] but more to the point, you could add social features to your app [19:48] with just a few lines of coherent code [20:10] seb128: hi , Bug #589450 might be a bug due to gtk csd , could you have a look at it? or whom should i refer it to? [20:10] Launchpad bug 589450 in cheese (Ubuntu) "Cheese crashes shortly after startup (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/589450 [20:24] jcastro, btw all uploaded to the ppa... just waiting for the builders to get them [20:28] kenvandine: awesome! [20:30] vish, tag it gtk-csd [20:30] vish, brastche will look at those [20:30] seb128: cool , thanks === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf [21:17] asac: well, enough to had a look at the code past monthes, but nothing too much in deep. Shouldn't be hard if required (but not before alpha2, I'm already full :)) [21:34] didrocks: i have a question ... does jockey carry local data about pci/usb ids that have drivers available? or is that all online === micahg1 is now known as micahg