/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/06/04/#ubuntu-manual.txt

ChrisWoollardg'night00:27
flanI'll try to be available, ubuntujenkins, but I'll be at work and will therefore be a little limited in what I can do.02:02
flan(I have some VMs, but also a lot of tasks)02:02
ubuntujenkinsmorning all07:56
ubuntujenkinshopefully i will fix this pacthing error with the texlive-bin packages08:17
ubuntujenkinspleia2: with the docs/manual/learning meeting do we want to open a new doodle poll?12:45
ubuntujenkinshey humphreybc whats the "mini" version of you?12:55
humphreybcmy new netbook :P13:01
humphreybc-miniisn't it exciting?13:03
ubuntujenkinswell it may be exciting for you but I don't have a netbook :)13:05
nisshhhumphreybc-mini: you lucky bugger, i, like ubuntujenkins, dont have one either13:12
ubuntujenkins?ppa > ubuntujenkins13:12
quickshotdevsubuntujenkins, please see my private message13:12
humphreybc-minijust found I too suffer from this bug13:13
humphreybc-minihttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/48092913:13
manualbotLaunchpad bug 480929 in linux "[9.10]Audio hiss coming from netbook speakers when using headphones" [Undecided,Confirmed]13:13
humphreybc-minii'm trying the last fix in the comments, have to reboot13:13
nisshhhumphreybc-mini: what netbook is it?13:13
humphreybc-minidell mini 913:13
humphreybc-minibrb in like 20 seconds :P13:13
humphreybc-miniit has an SSD13:13
nisshh:O13:13
thorwilhumphreybc-mini: : i updated the title page templates for e2 with the new orange and CoF geometry, including the wave pattern a while ago. next step would be having the "Second Edition" string translated13:14
nisshhthorwil: he will be back in a minute13:14
nisshhhad to reboot13:14
thorwilarg, yeah, that happens when you type and not read along13:14
nisshhhehe13:15
humphreybc-minihmm13:15
humphreybc-minithat didnt fix it13:15
thorwilhumphreybc-mini: : i updated the title page templates for e2 with the new orange and CoF geometry, including the wave pattern a while ago. next step would be having the "Second Edition" string translated13:16
humphreybc-minithorwil: great :)13:16
ubuntujenkinsbrb13:18
thorwili used to be happy with 13G for each of my 2 system partitions, but collecting more and more stuff in /usr/src and all the tex business ruined that :)13:36
ubuntujenkinsyep same for me, / is now 28gb to same me having to change it again13:38
shriniteam13:40
shrinineed help13:40
shrinibzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e113:40
shrinithis command disconnectted13:41
ubuntujenkinsdo you have bzr installed?13:41
shriniafter downloading some yes13:41
shriniyes13:41
shrinii have13:41
shrininet disconnected13:41
shrinihow to continue?13:41
shrinibzr: ERROR: Target directory "lucid-e1" already exists. is the error13:42
shrinibut, it is partial13:42
ubuntujenkinscd lucid-e113:42
shriniok13:42
ubuntujenkinsbzr pull13:42
ubuntujenkinsgive that a go13:42
shrinibzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/shrinivasan/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/.bzr/branch/": location is a repository.13:42
ubuntujenkinsbzr pull lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e113:43
shriniubuntujenkins: ?13:43
ubuntujenkinsdoes that work?13:43
shrinisame error13:43
shrinii downloaded 85MB13:44
shrininow the folder ahs only 52 k13:44
shriniubuntujenkins: have to do again from start?13:44
ubuntujenkinsI think you will need to delete the "lucid-e1" folder and start again with bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e113:44
shriniOMG13:45
shrini:-)13:45
shriniok13:45
shriniwill do it again13:45
ubuntujenkinshopefully the internet will say connected this time.13:45
shrinihope so13:46
humphreybc-miniwell that was fun14:03
ubuntujenkinshumphreybc-mini: I am ready to update the manual tex ppa I built the packages from very up to date source. I am just waiting for someone to answer my request to make the ppa bigger14:08
ubuntujenkinsyou have to ask a soyuz question14:09
humphreybc-miniwho have you asked?14:09
ubuntujenkinshttps://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/113396 is where you are directed14:11
ubuntujenkinsthats my question asking for it to be made bigger, I did only ask yesterday14:11
humphreybc-minioh14:13
humphreybc-miniwell give them some time ;)14:13
ubuntujenkinsyea I just want to get it done :-) . very much like that as a person14:14
humphreybc-miniheh14:39
humphreybc-miniI know how you feel14:39
shrini1team16:50
shrini1is there any way to rescue the disconnected "bzr branch" command?16:50
shrini1i have disconnecting net onnection16:50
ubuntujenkinsshrini1: I suggest trying #bzr they migth be able to help16:51
shrini1:-)16:52
shrini1okey16:52
shrini1ubuntujenkins: resume is not possible in bzr17:18
shrini1:-(17:18
shrini1what is the total size of the repo?17:19
shrini1i downloaded 56M17:19
shrini1what is the remaining size?17:19
ubuntujenkinstotal is 185.5mb so 135mb remaining17:19
shrini1ubuntujenkins: thanks17:22
ubuntujenkinslets hope its third time lucky17:22
pleia2ubuntujenkins: I think just using the same time as before in a week or so will be ok17:23
pleia2re: meeting17:23
ubuntujenkinsok thanks pleia2 I was just thinking about it randomly17:24
* pleia2 nods17:27
* ubuntujenkins uploads the new latex packages17:58
shriniteam18:29
shrinineed help18:29
shrinimake ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf18:29
shrinidid that18:29
shrinibut18:29
godbykwhat's up, shrini?18:29
shrinitamil fonts are not displayed18:29
shrinigetting boxes18:29
shrini:-)18:29
shrinijust tried18:30
shrinisome 8% of translation is uploaded to LP18:30
godbykshrini: let me try it here real quick.18:30
godbykI may not have the Tamil fonts set up yet.18:30
shrinigodbykthanks18:30
shriniok18:30
godbykshrini: yeah, I apparently don't have the tamil fonts set up yet.18:31
godbykshrini: I'm going to grab some lunch and then I'll get the fonts for you.18:32
shriniokey18:32
shriniwill be awake long today18:32
godbykok18:32
shrinihave to uplaod the pending translations18:32
godbykooh.. tamil is a pretty script!18:33
godbykokay.  lunch first. then I'll fix the fonts.18:34
godbyk:)18:34
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: I should package those today18:34
godbykubuntujenkins: package what?18:34
ubuntujenkinsthe tamil fonts?18:35
godbykthere are already some in the repositories. I'll probably just find a couple a like and toss 'em in.  (and change them if shrini says they look bad.)18:35
godbykubuntujenkins: See the ttf-tamil-fonts Ubuntu package for a few of the fonts.18:36
shrinii have installed already18:36
ubuntujenkinsok thanks, I am on a packing role today updated the  ppa with packages buitl on the newest possible source18:37
shrinihttp://saranyaselvaraj.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/latex-using-tamil-document-and-commands/18:40
shriniwill this link help?18:40
godbykshrini: That's describes what we've been doing, yeah.18:43
shrinioh18:45
shrinigrea18:45
shrinit18:45
godbykshrini: How do you indicate emphasis?  For instance, with the English fonts, we can use italics and bold.  Do italics/bold mean anything with the Tamil script?18:45
shrini:-)18:46
shrinibold/italics are there18:46
shrinibut18:46
godbykokay18:46
shrininot sure how to do in latex18:46
shrininormally it should work18:46
godbykI'll worry about the LaTeX side of things.18:47
shrinihmmm18:47
shrinido we have any other translated pdf?18:47
godbykI just need to know what differences I need to make for Tamil from English.18:47
shrinican compare18:47
godbykTo compare what?18:48
shrinican compare with other languages, if any18:48
godbykAh, well, you can see our translated PDFs on this page: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/18:48
godbyk(The first icon in the Files column links to the PDF.18:49
godbykThe Greek manual is almost ready to be released.18:49
shrinigodbyk: wow18:54
shrinifound another one18:54
shriniin my evince, the left pane has index18:55
shrinithat has some proper font in tamil18:55
godbykYes.18:55
shrinithe left side only shows boxes18:55
shrini:-)18:55
godbykFinished lunch.  Setting up your fonts now.18:55
godbykDo you use quotation marks?  If so, which ones?18:55
shrinigodbyk: where?18:56
godbykshrini: We're using them around the names of windows.18:57
shriniany example?18:58
shriniin po file?18:58
godbykAnytime the \window command it used, it puts the text in quotation marks.18:59
godbykSo \window{My Window Name} would appear as "My Window Name" in the English PDF.18:59
shrinioh18:59
shriniwe did not go that much18:59
shrinionly 6% uploaded to LP19:00
shriniwe are uploading now19:00
shriniin the mean time, tried to see how it works19:00
godbykNot to worry. We can deal with that later.19:02
shriniokey19:03
shrinithanks19:03
shrinianother question19:03
shrinii uploaded 3 full chapters in LP19:03
shrinicould not get all text in tamil for 3 chapters19:04
shrinifor example, check chapter 719:04
godbykshrini: I don't understand your question. Sorry.19:05
shriniokok19:06
shrinii uploaded the text to LP for 3 chapters19:07
shrinibut seeing them in english only19:07
shriniin the pdf19:07
shrinionly very few headings are shown as boxes atleast19:07
godbykAh, gotcha.19:08
godbykIf you've uploaded the text pretty recently (that is, after May 30th), then it won't appear yet.19:09
godbykI have to copy the text from Launchpad into the PDFs by running a script.  And I haven't done that for a few days.19:09
godbykIf your translations appear in Launchpad, then they will appear in the PDF the next time I create it.19:10
shrinigodbyk: oh19:11
shrinithats great19:11
shrinihow can I compile manually?19:11
shrinii did all the bzr branch stuff19:12
shrinimake ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf19:12
godbykshrini: Have you installed TeX Live 2009?19:12
shriniyes19:12
godbykokay. Running 'make ubuntu-manual-ta.pdf' should generate a PDF file by that name.19:13
godbykIf it gives you errors, paste them to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ and I'll look at them for you.19:13
shrinino errros19:13
shriniI can get the pdf19:13
shrinibut missing lot of stuff in tamil19:14
shriniok19:14
shrinileave it19:14
shriniLet me finish uploading to LP fully19:15
godbykOkay.19:15
shrinithen, will check19:15
shrinibut, please look on the font issue in the right pane19:15
godbykI have to manually download the translations from Launchpad and put them in the bzr repository.19:15
godbykThey won't show up in the PDFs until I do that.19:15
godbykshrini: I'm looking at the fonts right now. I should have the font issue fixed shortly.19:15
shrinigodbyk thanks19:16
shrinichecked arabic pdf19:27
shrinipages are less19:27
shrinibut the fonts are good19:27
godbykshrini: Do you have any recommendations for great-looking Tamil fonts?19:28
shrinino19:28
godbykMost of the ones I've looked at are boring and blech.19:28
shriniwhat is the font name you use for tamil?19:28
godbykTamil is such a beautiful script, yet most of the fonts are so flat.19:28
godbykI'm trying to decide which fonts to use right now.19:29
shriniyes. we have very less FOSS fonts in tamil19:29
shrinitons of beautiful fonts on commercial world19:29
godbykWhich commercial fonts do you like?19:29
shriniKA-lagaram19:31
shriniis a neat font19:31
shrininot free19:31
shriniwe use it in our DTP centers19:31
godbykHey, shrini, would you like to be the translation editor for Tamil?19:39
shrini:-)19:39
shriniwith pleasure19:39
shriniwhat i have to do/19:40
shrini?19:40
godbykWell, you'll be my point-of-contact for the Tamil translation team.19:40
godbykAnd you'll have the final say when we're ready to publish the Tamil manual.19:40
shrinisure19:41
godbykAwesome.  What's your full name, email address, and launchpad ID?19:41
shriniFull Name : Shrinivasan19:41
shrinitshrinivasan@gmail.com19:41
shriniLP id : shrini19:42
godbykPerfect, thanks!19:43
shrinithank you19:44
godbykshrini: I'll search for some nicer fonts this evening.  I should probably get back to other work for now, though.19:46
shrinigodbyk: fine19:47
godbykIf you're not on IRC when I've fixed the fonts, I will email you to let you know.19:47
shrinione interesting news19:47
shrinithis sunday, june 619:47
shriniwe celebrate ubuntu release party19:47
shrinion that party19:47
shriniwe planned to release this book19:47
shriniis it posible?19:47
shrini:-)19:48
shrinitext is ready19:48
godbykI don't think it will be ready in two days.19:48
shriniwe will upload it to LP tonight19:48
godbykWe need to get the translations in Launchpad.19:48
shriniya19:48
godbykAnd there are some other LaTeX things I will need your help with sorting out, too.19:48
shrinioh19:48
shrinithats fine19:48
shrinilet us try our best19:48
godbykFor instance, right now, the index doesn't know how to alphabetize Tamil.19:48
shrinioh19:49
shriniokey19:49
godbykAnd LaTeX has some words built-in (like 'Chapter' and 'Section') that I will need you to translate.19:49
shrinii think we can keep the keywords19:49
shrinias it is19:49
ubuntujenkinsalso there are still 26 screenshots to do19:49
godbykAh, good point, ubuntujenkins.19:50
shrinihow do you find the numbers?19:50
godbykshrini: http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/19:50
godbykHey, ubuntujenkins. What can we do to get rid of the php warnings on that page?  (They just look ugly.)19:51
shrinihow to see the existing tamil screenshots?19:51
godbyk(I could disable warnings, but it'd be better to fix the code, I think.)19:51
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: not sure ask flan19:51
godbykubuntujenkins: will do.19:51
ubuntujenkinsshrini: I will find you the details of the current screenshots19:51
godbykhey, flan! :)19:51
shriniubuntujenkins: fine19:52
shriniis there any possible to use english screenshots?19:52
ubuntujenkinsshrini: the current scrrenshots for tamil are in bzr branch  lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/ta19:53
ubuntujenkinsI think that by using tamil screenshots it will add to the professional look of it19:54
godbykAnd the screenshots are pretty easy to take.19:54
ubuntujenkinsshrini: do you have lucid?19:54
shrinifine19:55
shrinii have lucid19:55
shrinibut the problem19:55
shriniis tamil is a different language19:55
shriniand tamil people are different19:55
shriniwe prefer english than tamil for the UI19:55
shrinithough we have tamil UI19:55
shrinithe usage is very less19:56
shrininegligable19:56
shriniif we give this manual with tamil screenshots19:56
godbykThat's interesting.19:56
shrinipeople wont find in their desktops19:56
ubuntujenkinsthat is interesting19:56
shrini:-)19:56
shriniwe are strugling hard to push tamil19:56
shriniin UI19:56
godbykshrini: Why do most of them prefer the English UI?  Is it because most systems don't have a good Tamil UI?19:56
shrinigodbyk: yes19:57
shriniand the words are very old19:57
shriniyoung generation feel odd to see tamil in UI19:57
godbykIs it better to show the English screenshots or better to show the Tamil screenshots (to show them that there is a Tamil UI)?19:57
shriniEnglish UI is better19:57
shrinifor now19:57
shriniour goal is to write a book about ubuntu19:58
shriniin tamil19:58
godbykshrini: When you talk about the names of UI things in the text, are you using the English words or Tamil words?19:58
shriniwe use english words only19:58
shrinino 100% translation19:58
ubuntujenkinswould a new user choose tamil as their language when they did an install? If i had never used ubuntu before i would choose tamil as it is my language. (Thats my logic)19:58
shriniit wont work19:59
shriniubuntujenkins: you are right19:59
shrinibut reality here is different19:59
shriniI am with ubuntu for 3 years20:00
shrininever seen a tamil desktop20:00
shriniI used it for 1 year in tamil ui20:00
godbykWow.20:00
shriniothers found difficult to use my system20:00
godbykI learn so much from our translators! :)20:00
shrinieven for some emergency20:00
shriniit is a shame on us20:00
shrinito reject native language in ui20:01
shrinibut, we need spread ubuntu, not native language20:01
shrini:-)20:01
ubuntujenkinswow.20:01
ubuntujenkinsI tend to navigate by pictures, after all of the quickshot testing20:01
ubuntujenkinsthe icons are always the same20:01
shriniI personally prefer tamil in ui20:01
shrinibut the public wont accept it20:02
godbykI lived in Germany for a year and didn't speak German.  When I had to use a German computer, I had to guess what the words meant based on their position (I new that 'New' was usually the first item in the File menu, for instance).20:02
godbykHey, c7p.  I haven't forgotten about you! I'm going to work on the Greek translation this evening after work.20:04
godbykc7p: I think we're pretty close. I just need to run through it to make sure we haven't missed anything.20:04
shrinigodbyk: thats great. germans rock20:04
c7pgodbyk: hey :D I'me glad to hear that20:04
shriniit may take some years for tamil to push in UI20:04
godbykshrini: You may have to invent some new Tamil words just for the UI. :)20:05
c7pgodbyk: So the license issue is over >20:07
c7p?*20:07
godbykc7p: Well, for this first edition, we will have to use the English license. But we can put a Greek paragraph at the top that links to the Greek license.20:08
godbykc7p: We're hoping to convince the Creative Commons lawyers to let our translators translate the licenses. Then they can have the translated licenses proofread or whatever and we can start using them.20:08
godbykc7p: But for this first edition, we're stuck with English.20:09
c7pgodbyk: good :) np since there is a translated paragraph explaining the situation, as it is on the license-el.tex that I have sent you recently, hmm haven't I?20:11
godbykyep, I got your email.20:12
shrinigodbyk: hahaah20:12
godbykc7p: have you already copied that into the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file?20:12
shriniwe created 1 font20:12
shrinistill needs improvement20:12
godbykshrini: It's really hard to make good fonts.20:12
shriniyes20:13
c7pgodbyk: hm I don't remember let me check it20:13
shrinigodbyk: http://saranyaselvaraj.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/creating-tamil-fonts/20:14
godbykshrini: Yeah, I saw that when I was looking for fonts.20:16
godbykshrini: Speaking of, do you like any of the fonts on this page? http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Tamil.html20:17
shrinigodbyk: great20:17
godbykshrini: Or do you have any favorite open/free fonts?20:17
c7pgodbyk: I corrected the license link on the first page to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed . Now should I copy the content of license.tex into the ubuntu-manual tex ?20:17
shrinigodbyk: Lohit Tamil20:20
shriniis fine20:20
godbykc7p: Yeah, it'd be a help to me if you could copy the license stuff over to the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file.20:20
godbykshrini: thanks, I'll give it a shot.  are there any nice calligraphic-style tamil fonts?  what kinds of fonts are usually used for books written in tamil?  fonts with strokes that never vary in width? or fonts with strokes that do vary in width?20:22
c7pgodbyk: sure if that helps. I paste it to the line of "\LoadLicenseFile" (of course i will delete this \LoadLicenseFile). ok?20:23
shrinigodbyk: for book printing, font should not vary in width20:23
shrinigodbyk: same width font should be used20:24
godbykc7p: That should work, yeah.20:24
shrinigodbyk: else, the spacing wont be even.20:24
godbykshrini: okay.20:24
shrinias you said, that link is the famous page for tamil unicode fonts20:24
godbykshrini: I like the ones that vary in width, though. :(20:25
shrinigodbyk: can u show some example for the same in engkish?20:25
shrinihave to check if I understood correctly20:25
shrini:-)20:25
godbykshrini: Well, on that page of Tamil fonts, if you compare Lohit Tamil to Akshar Unicode, for instance.20:26
godbykNotice that with Akshar Unicode, the thickness of the brush stroke changes as the brush changes direction.20:26
godbykWith Lohit Tamil, it looks like it was drawn with a marker instead of a brush -- the stroke widths don't change.20:27
shrinigodbyk: you are right20:28
shrinithat is also nice20:28
shrinibut, for printing lohit tamil will be fine and professional20:28
shriniI think, if I want to change the pdf in another font, I can change in some config file and compile a new pdf with new tamil font.20:29
shriniam i right?20:29
godbykshrini: Kind of.  Let me set it up for Lohit Tamil real quick and see if that works.20:31
shrinigodbyk: great20:33
godbykAh, there's more code I have to write before it will work.20:35
godbykI'll write that code tonight.  I will also send you an email with the LaTeX translations I will need from you.  (There are only about a dozen words.)20:36
shrinigodbyk: sure20:43
c7pgodbyk: i've sent you the mail. After inclusion of license on the main tex file, the compilation is done with success but lot with no errors :/ although the pdf looks fine20:55
godbykc7p: you said you did get errors when you compiled it?20:56
c7pgodbyk: yes re annoying lines :)20:56
c7pred*20:56
godbykokay20:56
godbykI'm still waiting for your email to arrive.20:57
c7pomg gmail is freezed20:57
godbykCan you paste the ubuntu-manual-el.log file to http://paste.ubuntu.com/?20:57
c7pgodbyk: finally the message has gone. check the log http://paste.ubuntu.com/444782/21:00
godbykok21:01
c7pgodbyk: g2g brb in a half hour21:02
c7pback22:00
ubuntujenkinsnight all22:34
cwoollardg'night22:47
c7pnight all22:57

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