[01:59] <Sebas310> ...
[12:47] <thorwil> djsiegel1: you might enjoy this, conceptually, at least: http://nixos.org/nix/
[13:49] <djsiegel1> thorwil: yes, thanks, have seen this
[13:54] <thorwil> djsiegel1: cool. so what's the timeline for ubuntu to switch to that? ;)
[13:54] <djsiegel1> haha
[13:54] <djsiegel1> ask an astrophysicist
[14:57] <seb128> vish, nautilus-elementary is a fail in collaboration
[14:57] <seb128> or how to not do things...
[14:58] <vish> seb128: ;) well , when there is someone interested in making the change happen *now* , there was no other way than to fork , else there wouldnt even have been as much a discussion over nautilus changes.
[14:59] <vish> seb128: but i dont disagree it was a wrong approach ;)
[14:59] <seb128> vish, well what you set up for is something which will not benefit ubuntu users
[14:59] <seb128> since we are not going to switch from nautilus to a project which do changes without interest to work with upstream on those
[14:59] <vish> seb128: even for papercuts , we have so many papercuts with MDC1s patches just lying there , just because upstream is not moving on them
[15:00] <seb128> right
[15:00] <seb128> because you failed in communication
[15:00] <seb128> upstream uses mailing list
[15:00] <seb128> bugzilla is to spammy they are not subscribed
[15:00] <vish> seb128: MDC1 has on several occasions used the mailing list as well , but no response
[15:01] <seb128> I don't think it's true
[15:01] <aday> vish: i'm working on making nautilus bz more useful. the bugs are getting triaged and tracked now
[15:01] <seb128> I'm subscribed to the nautilus list for years
[15:01] <seb128> they are usually reviewing much changes there
[15:01] <seb128> it might take some time when they are busy
[15:01] <vish> seb128: i can find the mailing list , where he sent out the request to review patches ;)
[15:01] <seb128> or when you come during freeze times etc
[15:01] <aday> vish: we're low on manpower. that's why bugs aren't getting fixed. the solution to that isn't a fork
[15:01]  * vish searches
[15:01] <vish> aday: i dont disagree :)
[15:02] <seb128> vish, if some things are not reviewed and elementary ship those fair enough
[15:02] <seb128> but not sending changes or not discussing before doing it is wrong
[15:02] <seb128> you could benefit to common design
[15:02] <seb128> and find something which work for both teams
[15:02] <seb128> and go in nautilus
[15:02] <seb128> and to ubuntu users
[15:03] <seb128> rather than having something sitting in a ppa which will never reach our users
[15:03] <vish> seb128: well , it all started with MDC1s neglected patches , like the stop/reload button and a few other stuff , then eventually it started gathering more features , since there was DanRabbit1 able to get the ideas implemented right now :)
[15:04] <aday> vish: can you send me links to those patches?
[15:05] <seb128> vish, let's try to fix that now
[15:05] <vish> seb128: aday: this was the last mail MDC1 sent to the nautilus mailing list > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2010-April/msg00008.html , i had to request him to poke the list , but no reponse , [these were for the papercuts]
[15:06] <vish> and probably a few other bugs he had worked on
[15:06] <jcastro> hey vish 
[15:06] <vish> jcastro: hey :)
[15:06] <jcastro> is that marcus guy a natuilus-elementary person?
[15:07] <jcastro> I mailed two of them but only danrabbit responded. :-/
[15:07] <jcastro> (and we already know him, heh)
[15:07] <vish> jcastro: marcus earlier started working on a lot of papercuts , but ammonkey is the one from the elementary team
[15:07] <DanRabbit> jcastro: hey no there is no marcus working with us
[15:07] <DanRabbit> last i heard we was working with upstream
[15:08] <seb128> vish, the first 3 got fixed it seems
[15:08] <DanRabbit> jcastro: we've been having a talk with upstream over the past week or so and we've come to the conclusion that there are some areas we want to work together on, but there are many more areas that upstream is simply not interested in
[15:09] <jcastro> DanRabbit: do you chat with ammonkey alot? He never responded to my mail. :-/
[15:09] <seb128> jcastro, we are talking with him on #nautilus
[15:09] <DanRabbit> jcastro: yes he available pretty much daily in #elementary
[15:09] <seb128> and I exchanged some email with him today
[15:09] <jcastro> ok
[15:09] <aday> vish: thanks
[15:10] <vish> aday: ammonkey probably has a bigger list of feature patches ;)
[15:11] <jcastro> seb128: ok so they're at least talking
[15:11] <seb128> jcastro, yes, for some definition of talking
[15:11] <seb128> the elementary guys for some reason think the way to get their improvement to users is to work on a nautilus clone
[15:12] <seb128> rather than getting the changes to nautilus
[15:12] <DanRabbit> seb128: I don't appreciate your destruction comments and assumptions
[15:12] <DanRabbit> seb128: we ARE trying to get the changes upstream
[15:12] <DanRabbit> please stop spreading misinformation
[15:12] <DanRabbit> both ammonkey and I have already told you this
[15:14] <seb128> danRabbit: I don't see that from his comments
[15:15] <seb128> things like the editor are clear "why would we change our working code to work on something that upstream would use"
[15:15] <DanRabbit> seb128: you have to understand that ammonkey is highly irratated from people (like you) attacking his hard work.
[15:15] <DanRabbit> Upstream REFUSES to use our toolbar editor implementation
[15:15] <DanRabbit> why? because its a little different than what they want
[15:15] <seb128> right
[15:15] <DanRabbit> a lot of our changes are right that
[15:15] <DanRabbit> they DON'T WANT TO USE IT
[15:15] <seb128> no
[15:15] <DanRabbit> I don't understand why this is a hard concept
[15:15] <DanRabbit> yes
[15:15] <seb128> they said they want the same editor as GNOME use
[15:16] <seb128> the one in eog etc
[15:16] <DanRabbit> right, which is not the one that we have
[15:16] <seb128> you could update your work
[15:16] <seb128> and they would take it
[15:16] <seb128> well, you should work to get it thebn
[15:16] <DanRabbit> feel free to submit a patch ;)
[15:16] <seb128> if you are interested to get things upstream
[15:16] <DanRabbit> if you think it is so easy we could use help
[15:17] <seb128> I don't think it's easy
[15:17] <seb128> but I don't see where you go by doing it in a way which GNOME will not take 
[15:17] <seb128> sure it's extra efforts to work with them
[15:17] <seb128> but it's less than having to maintain and rebase your changes
[15:17] <seb128> and it would reach users
[15:17] <DanRabbit> seb128: uh... right
[15:18] <DanRabbit> we have lots of users
[15:18] <DanRabbit> and some distributions are starting to ship nautilus-elementary
[15:18] <DanRabbit> but that is not what its about
[15:18] <DanRabbit> its about getting postitive change out there
[15:19] <DanRabbit> and for the last time, we are working with upstream as much as possible, but they are not interested in our changes and its not just implementation details
[15:19] <DanRabbit> we have different ideas and goals for Nautilus than they do
[15:19] <DanRabbit> so please stop beating a dead horse
[15:19] <DanRabbit> we are not anti collaborative
[15:20] <DanRabbit> we want all our changes to go upstream
[15:20] <DanRabbit> upstrteam doesn't want all of our changes
[15:20] <DanRabbit> we are going to work together as much as possible
[15:27] <seb128> danRabbit: sorry I was on the phone
[15:27] <seb128> danRabbit: I'm sure you have users, you will just never get as many getting the cool changes by having 2 different nautilus than by improving the default one
[15:27] <seb128> danRabbit: and I don't see distributions switching away from the GNOME one
[15:28] <DanRabbit> seb128: I think you still don't understand. I don't know how I can make this clearer
[15:29] <DanRabbit> seb128: upstream DOES NOT WANT all of our changes
[15:29] <DanRabbit> seb128: Its not about how many users we have
[15:29] <seb128> they don't want all
[15:29] <seb128> they want a some of those though
[15:29] <DanRabbit> seb128: yes there are distrubitions switching away no matter how skeptical you are
[15:29] <seb128> the editor being a perfect example
[15:29] <DanRabbit> I am done talking about it. you refuse to listen to what I'm telling you.
[15:30] <seb128> I don't see Debian, Fedora or Ubuntu changintg
[15:30] <seb128> so sure maybe gentoo is going to change or some random small distributions
[15:30] <seb128> but as you said that's not the point
[15:30] <seb128> those changes could benefit all users
[15:34] <vish> alrightly .. moving on...
[15:43] <vish> aday: also , MDC has done a lot on interesting unreviewed patches > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=describeuser.html&login=gnomebugzilla%40mejlamej.nu , you might be interested
[15:43] <vish> s/on/of
[15:44] <aday> vish: i go through those
[15:48] <seb128> vish, I pinged cosimoc
[15:49] <vish> seb128: yup , saw that  , thanks :)
[15:49] <seb128> he said he would try to review the one list in the email you copied the url before
[19:40] <ScottK> Is there a moderator for the ayatana mailing list around?
[19:41]  * ScottK sent a couple of messages with some (small) screenshots attached and I fear the got stuck in moderation.
[19:41] <ScottK> Actually one of them just appeared, so maybe not.
[19:42] <vish> ScottK: moderator? i dont think there is any moderation for ayatana mailing list , else it would be less noisier ;)   got the mail with the rekonq pic , but sometimes lp mails are kinda slow/delayed
[19:42] <ScottK> vish: Yeah, I think it's just slow.
[19:43] <ScottK> Usually an admin will have access to a moderation queue.
[19:43] <ScottK> AFAIK, LP lists are just mailman lists.
[19:43] <vish> ScottK: got the next one with 3 attachments too 
[19:44] <ScottK> Yeah, that's the one I just saw.  That's the one I was missing.
[20:02] <ScottK> tedg: http://imagebin.ca/view/5uEWkq7.html
[20:03] <tedg> ScottK, Yeah, I knew what you meant.  I think that the KWin guy had some shots on his blog, no?
[20:04] <ScottK> tedg: Yeah.  That's mgraesslin's screen shot.
[20:23] <jcastro> hey bratsche 
[20:23] <jcastro> "Load an application with this env. variable: GTK_MENUPROXY="libappmenu.so" gnome-terminal"
[20:23] <bratsche> Hey jcastro
[20:23] <jcastro> bratsche: can you make it so this goes away before thursday?
[20:23] <jcastro> basically we want it that way ootb
[20:23] <bratsche> I think so.
[20:23] <jcastro> we talked about this last week for a bit, just making sure it won't be a problem
[20:24] <hyperair> libappmenu? O_o
[20:24] <bratsche> jcastro: Yeah we did talk about it last week.  Right now I need to shift over to fixing some RGBA related issues, but I've almost got those under control now already.
[20:25] <jcastro> bratsche: bah, totally forgot you were fire extinguishing
[20:25] <jcastro> ok
[20:25] <bratsche> I'm being spread a little thin at this stage of Meerkat, but it's cool.. I'll get this module loading worked out before Thursday.
[20:26] <jcastro> <3
[20:28] <bratsche> ScottK: fwiw, I have the same problem with ayatana list.  Whenever I try to send a mail there from my @canonical.com or @ubuntu.com email it seems to be sucked into some dark vortex, never again to see light.  But if I write from my @gnome.org address it goes through.  But that's only strange to me because all the mail goes TO my @canonical.com address, not my @gnome.org address. :)
[20:28] <ScottK> Odd.
[20:32] <bratsche> It's okay, I usually have nothing worth saying on that mailing list anyway.
[22:44] <kermiac> tedg: did you see my comment in bug 583174? Do we have a more "user friendly" name for indicator-applet-complete? Apart from that small issue, the indicator-applet apport hook is ready for deployment in the Maverick packages.
[22:44] <tedg> kermiac, Yeah, I saw that.  I can't think of anything -- I think few enough people have it that it's probably fine.
[22:45] <tedg> kermiac, It's really only for testing, so if someone has it they should know it.
[22:45] <kermiac> ok, that's what I thought. Thanks :) I'll link the branch to that bug report. Do you want/ need me to package the hook?
[22:45] <ShroudedCloud> A few people in OMG!Ubuntu! use it and they dont' have any problems with it.
[22:48] <kermiac> tedg: if you want me to package the hook, which branch should I use for Maverick? There are quite a few branches at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-applet
[22:58] <kermiac> tedg: Is the the correct branch to use for packaging the hook in Maverick? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-applet/ubuntu