[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:19] <dholbach> hola dpm
[08:19] <dpm> hola dholbach!
[08:20] <dpm> good morning everyone
[08:49] <nigelbabu> morning dholbach, dpm :)
[08:51] <dholbach> hey nigelb
[09:18] <dpm> heya nigelb :)
[09:20] <dholbach> hi bobbo
[09:20] <bobbo> hey dholbach :)
[09:24] <dholbach> hola randa_
[09:26] <randa_> hi dholbach
[09:56] <dpm> hi randa_
[09:56] <dpm> hey bobbo
[09:56] <bobbo> hey dpm :)
[09:56] <randa_> hi dpm
[10:55] <czajkowski> aloha folks
[10:58] <nigelbabu> aloha czajkowski :)
[11:12] <dholbach> dpm: the translated LoCoCouncil page looks good to me :)
[11:12] <dholbach> dpm: I'll ask everybody to review the daily builds stuff again, then we can maybe see who's interested in translating it
[11:13] <czajkowski> aye the loco council page does
[11:13] <czajkowski> and it's good to see councils translating their pages especially as the community is so large
[11:21] <dpm> dholbach, ah, cool
[12:15] <bobbo> dholbach, ping
[12:16] <dholbach> bobbo: pong
[12:17] <bobbo> hey dholbach, I've written and attached a patch for edit-patch. mvo is sponsoring it right now
[12:17] <dholbach> bobbo: HOLY COW
[12:17] <dholbach> bobbo: that's awesome
[12:17] <dholbach> bobbo: did you test it with a couple of different patch systems?
[12:17] <bobbo> yeah, did at least 2 for each tons for quilt, seems everyone's using it nowadays)
[12:18] <dholbach> that's fantastic
[12:18] <dholbach> bobbo: you could have uploaded it yourself! :)
[12:18] <dholbach> bobbo: but it's a good idea to have mvo have a look over it
[12:19] <bobbo> I thought you had to be core-dev to upload u-d-t?
[12:19] <dholbach> it's in universe
[12:19] <dholbach> apt-cache showsrc ubuntu-dev-tools
[12:19] <dholbach> bobbo: man this is amazing
[12:19] <dholbach> nigelbabu: ^
[12:19] <dholbach> great work :D
[12:19] <bobbo> thanks :D
[12:19] <dholbach> there might be others interested in this
[12:20] <nigelbabu> WOW
[12:20] <nigelbabu> dholbach: can we have 10 of bobbo? ;)
[12:24] <bobbo> dholbach, what would you like me to do now?
[12:25] <dholbach> bobbo: I was just thinking: maybe it'd be good to test-drive the process a bit and see if any kind of problems come up - like: have a look at a couple of bugs and have a think if it's obvious for somebody new having the docs that we have
[12:25] <dholbach> bobbo: do you think that makes sense?
[12:26] <bobbo> dholbach, sure, that sounds pretty good
[12:26] <dholbach> awesome
[12:26]  * dholbach hugs bobbo
[12:27]  * bobbo hugs dholbach back
[14:41]  * popey needs a jono
[14:48] <czajkowski> likewise
[14:52] <akgraner> popey, where does one buy a "jono" that you speak of?
[14:53] <popey> poundland
[14:56] <akgraner> hehe
[15:04] <highvoltage> heh
[15:14] <jcastro> dholbach: ping
[15:15] <dholbach> jcastro: pong
[15:15] <jcastro> dholbach: I don't think red is a good color for your graph
[15:16] <jcastro> green is more inspiring!
[15:16] <popey> aubergine!
[15:16] <popey> oh
[15:16] <dholbach> if you can give me the RGB values, I'll change it
[15:16] <popey> 0000ff :)
[15:16] <popey> oh, hang on
[15:16] <dholbach> I think it's 200, 0, 0 in the script now
[15:17] <dholbach> or 255,0,0
[15:17] <dholbach> because I was too lazy to look something up
[15:17] <popey> A woman came in the office last week, a few people commented on her rather nice new chunky shoes. I looked and said (in a rather too loud and alarmed fashion) "Aubergine!" (for they were that colour) and mentioned that it was a very 'in' colour. She seemed surprised that I'd know this :D
[15:17] <popey> blagging :)
[15:18] <dholbach> :-)
[15:20] <jcastro> dholbach: I have some import questions
[15:21] <jcastro> remember that we need to have the upstream imported into lp to do the dailies right?
[15:21] <dholbach> jcastro: yes
[15:21] <jcastro> so I went to go make sure shotwell was imported
[15:21] <dholbach> jcastro: code and packaging need to be in LP
[15:21] <jcastro> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/shotwell
[15:21] <jcastro> yeah, so, I imported it, but it's under ~jorge
[15:21] <jcastro> did we set up a team or something?
[15:22] <dholbach> ~jorge should be fine
[15:22] <dholbach> you can set up a team if it's what the shotwell guys will be using
[15:23] <jcastro> oh I see what you mean
[15:23] <jcastro> so I think I should set up a team for each upstream then
[15:23] <jcastro> that way I can hand it over
[15:23] <dholbach> basically it's an ACL thing
[15:23]  * jcastro nods
[15:24] <dholbach> but which branch it's built from doesn't matter
[15:25] <jcastro> ok also
[15:25] <jcastro> on your getting started page
[15:25] <jcastro> I am confused already
[15:26] <jcastro> for "Writing it"
[15:26] <dholbach> that's good - finally somebody reviews it ;-)
[15:26] <jcastro> shouldn't we just show the trunk and the packaging bits?
[15:26] <jcastro> and save the merging of fixes and all that junk until later?
[15:26] <dholbach> what do you mean?
[15:26] <jcastro> basically, get it set up first
[15:27] <jcastro> then go into "let's say james fixes it and proposes a branch and you want to test it, this is how you add it to your recipe"
[15:27] <dholbach> which merging of fixes?
[15:27] <jcastro> because the initial recipe should be like 2 lines right?
[15:27] <dholbach> oh
[15:27] <dholbach> sorry
[15:27] <dholbach> yes
[15:27] <dholbach> I talked to james_w
[15:27] <dholbach> and he wants to give ma plethora of recipes
[15:27] <jcastro> merge fix-build lp:~bzr/bzr/fix-build
[15:27] <dholbach> I just copied the only example I had
[15:27] <jcastro> I think the recipes are fine
[15:27] <jcastro> we should just split it
[15:27] <dholbach> yes
[15:27] <jcastro> the first section should be like "how to get your daily started"
[15:27] <dholbach> that was the idea
[15:27] <jcastro> and 2 lines
[15:28] <dholbach> sometimes you'll need a more complicated recipe to get you going
[15:28] <jcastro> and then at the bottom say "ok, now that you've got all that set up, here's some james crack.
[15:28] <dholbach> but we can add 2467294672946 of them on a separate page
[15:28] <dholbach> and link to it
[15:28] <dholbach> totally agree
[15:28] <jcastro> are you sure? I've only ever needed like 2 lines
[15:28] <jcastro> but then again, I don't build anything complicated
[15:28] <dholbach> if you need to merge something from some other place or weirdos like the desktop team just store debian/ in a separate branch and you need to use that
[15:28] <dholbach> ...
[15:29] <dholbach> the recipe gets a bit longer :)
[15:30]  * popey fires a mail off to the ubuntu-users list again
[15:30] <dholbach> I think we can just say someting like: here's the standard recipe that will work for you in a lot of cases, you can also tell the build recipe to merge from some other branch or you can nest a directory in there, or do XYZ, for more examples see LINK
[15:30] <dholbach> jcastro: ^
[15:30] <jcastro> yeah!
[15:30] <dholbach> jcastro: once I get the stuff from james_w, I'll make it so
[15:30] <jcastro> ok
[15:30] <jcastro> ok so, I see some bits on edge
[15:30] <jcastro> should I go ahead and try using these instructions for real?
[15:31] <dholbach> jcastro: try it, but I think some stuff is broken there
[15:31] <dholbach> jcastro: abentley would know
[15:31] <jcastro> ok
[15:36] <jcastro> dholbach: man, we are screwed on work items
[15:37] <jcastro> dholbach: theoretically, I should be able to merge the ubuntu bzr packaging for something, mush it in with the upstream trunk, and be good right?
[15:42] <jcastro> dholbach: mind if I add stuff to DailyBuilds?
[15:42] <dholbach> jcastro: yes
[15:42] <dholbach> jcastro: please do it - totally
[15:42] <dholbach> jcastro: I never wanted it to be "my page"
[15:42] <dholbach> :)
[15:49] <jcastro> dholbach: what do you think about those revisions?
[15:49] <jcastro> I wanted more bullety points
[15:50] <jcastro> so like an upstream can see a list of awesome things
[15:50] <jcastro> I came up with some bad ones too
[15:52] <dholbach> jcastro: which?
[15:52] <dholbach> ah on the main page
[15:52] <jcastro> "Why Daily Builds"
[15:52] <jcastro> yeah
[15:53] <dholbach> looks great
[15:53] <dholbach> awesome
[15:59] <maco> so if i'm upstream on something, and i want to make a package... i recall hearing that upstreams should *not* include debian/ in their source tree. where *should* i put something like that?
[15:59] <maco> i'm using lp.  should i put a debian dir in a branch?
[15:59] <jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/shotwell/ubuntu
[15:59] <jcastro> there's an example maco
[16:00] <jcastro> but yeah, you're correct
[16:00] <maco> thanks
[16:00] <dholbach> you can just merge it from the source package branch of ubuntu
[16:00] <dholbach> or debian
[16:02] <maco> dholbach: not in yet. it'll be in before feature freeze though
[16:02] <dholbach> yeah, I was just saying
[16:02] <dholbach> … theoretically
[16:03] <maco> oh ok
[16:03] <nigelb> hola folks
[16:05] <jcastro> hi!
[16:06] <nigelb> jcastro: can you give us a blog post on cleansweep tomorrow?
[16:06] <nigelb> daniel rocked the planet today
[16:06] <jcastro> certainly!
[16:06] <jcastro> I will tweet it today though
[16:06] <nigelb> yay, thanks :)
[16:08] <jcastro> dholbach: ok, I mailed the shotwell guys just now informing them of my evil daily build plans for them
[16:08] <dholbach> awesome
[16:08] <jcastro> dholbach: anything else for dailies today?
[16:09] <dholbach> jcastro: as I said: some stuff is a bit broken still I think
[16:09] <jcastro> oh it is
[16:09] <jcastro> he told me
[16:16] <vish> jcastro: is there a bug jam in the near future?
[16:16] <jcastro> I don't remember!
[16:17] <nigelb> vish: plan one!
[16:17] <jcastro> you're like the 2nd person to ask today though
[16:17] <jcastro> let's ambush jono with that
[16:17] <vish> jcastro: oh , well , dont forget your TODO for papercuts ;)
[16:23] <dpm> the questions on bug jams might have been prompted by http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/myfenris/~3/O5Jj0x08q_c/ I must say they're a bit late (or a bit early!) for the global jam, but it's really cool they're organizing one!
[16:25] <jcastro> vish: wait, which one?
[16:27] <vish> jcastro: [jorge] Bug jam will check with papercuts project: TODO  > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-papercuts
[16:27] <vish> hmm , and papercuts is becoming more of community work now
[16:28] <jcastro> oh good, that's on my list, I had just mentally forgotten about it
[16:28] <vish> jcastro: nothing much , in that TODO though , to refresh , you agreed to mention include papercuts in the next bug jam :)
[16:29] <jcastro> right
[16:29] <jcastro> I have this recurring nightmare where I wake up and there's like 40 work items in launchpad I had no idea about
[16:29] <vish> lol!
[16:33] <qense> jcastro: Why isn't the design team making the workitems show up in the graphs, but are they adding them to blueprint whiteboards?
[16:33] <jcastro> not sure
[16:37] <dholbach> hello jono
[16:38] <qense> jcastro, jono: Have you both read <http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/many-hands-make-light-work-few-make-it.html>? It is talked about a lot and I'm sure many, many people will start asking questions about it.
[16:39] <jcastro> qense: yeah I read it this morning
[16:42] <jcastro> qense: articles like that end up pointing out the same thing when you distill it all down - Not enough people working on ubuntu.
[16:42] <jcastro> which is always the problem
[16:43] <qense> jcastro: That might be true, but I think you could also say that in that case we should make up our minds and decide not to fix everything and the world at once. Also, opening up the development of the Ayatana projects might not be such a bad idea. I mean, there isn't even a starting page for those projects at the moment.
[16:43] <qense> jcastro: We've achieved a lot, but we can do it better. :)
[16:43] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/
[16:43] <jcastro> admittedly it's kind of crap
[16:43] <jcastro> but it exists!
[16:44] <qense> jcastro: Ah, I forgot about that page. But we should get a more shiny one! Like the planned 'developer.ubuntu.com', but on 'ayatana.ubuntu.com' and geared towards people looking for more information about getting involved in or using Ayatana.
[16:45] <jcastro> right
[16:45] <vish> jcastro: qense: re: the design team and charts , they have been pining pitti to get it working , it seems to be on his todo list
[16:45] <vish> pinging*
[16:45] <qense> vish: Hey! That sounds like something's to be expected soon. :)
[16:47] <jcastro> his thing on brainstorm is totally wrong
[16:47] <jcastro> it was never a place where people can vote on what canonical developers work on
[16:47] <qense> That is a true thing.
[16:48] <vish> heh , a lot of the posts on OMG are just opinions [sometimes a bit misinformed]  , but readers take it to the truth
[16:48] <vish> to be the*
[16:48] <qense> Ubuntu Brainstorm creates expectations, but I don't think that currently it is capable of living up to it. Maybe it should be made more clear how to proceed once people say they like the idea.
[16:49] <vish> qense: brainstorm ,IMO ,is just to divert some traffic from lp ;)
[16:49] <qense> Or else, if no one looks at it, we should consider whether it is something we want to continue to spend resources on.
[16:49] <vish> qense: some people do use it effectively though , mpt often goes through brainstorm
[16:49] <jcastro> there's a whole Faq on expectations and all that stuff for brainstorm
[16:49] <qense> vish: It does feel like that. :) A /dev/null we divert people to when they've got things to say, but we have not time or place to listen to them.
[16:50] <jcastro> I check it every day!
[16:51] <jcastro> the thing is the ideas are so general
[16:51] <jcastro> "Networking sucks"
[16:51] <jcastro> but like, we know that already
[16:52] <dholbach> jono: 8m?
[16:54] <qense> jcastro: That is indeed the problem of most of the ideas. They're part bug report part general ideas everyone agrees on.
[16:54] <qense> We all want 'better file management', but tell me how!
[16:54] <czajkowski> vish: I think thats unfortunately due to people pusing omgubuntu as the palce to get information these days, so if it's on there it has to be true
[16:55] <james_w> dholbach: I've no idea what most of the stuff in https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dholbach/harvest/bug518887/+merge/21548 is doing, care to explain?
[16:56] <jcastro> czajkowski: the article isn't info per se, it's more an opinion piece
[16:57] <jono> dholbach, yep
[16:57] <dholbach> james_w: basically instead of listing ALL opportunity lists with all their opportunities (which takes ages) it just lists them in a clickable way
[16:57] <dholbach> jono: awesome
[16:57] <czajkowski> jcastro: it does seem to be the only way inforamtion is being pushed to the outside world at present
[16:57] <jcastro> what makes you say that?
[16:57] <czajkowski> jono: aloha
[16:57] <jono> bobbo, how is your week going :)
[16:57] <qense> jono: I'm currently working on the d.u.c content about Ayatana. I'm leaving out all the stuff that is still in development for Maverick. I think we need to look at when to add information about that. Most of the stuff hasn't been shown to the world yet. I'd say there are two options: add info when stuff is made available in maverick, or wait for the final release. In the first case we should add huge "WIP" ribbons and risk the technology
[16:57] <qense> not being used after all, or being changed radically. In the latter case the app developers would only learn about the new technologies after the release.
[16:58] <jono> hey czajkowski
[16:58] <bobbo> jono, great so far, I'm really enjoying it :)
[16:58] <qense> I'm still in doubt what the best way to solve this would be.
[16:58] <czajkowski> jcastro: I'm not seeing discussions regrding ububtu and new features discssed on ubuntu mailing lists or come from ubuntu /canonical folks, we seem to be pushing all news to come from omgubuntu
[16:58] <jono> bobbo, woo!
[16:58] <jono> bobbo, dholbach treating you well?
[16:58] <jono> bobbo, he is a slavedriver
[16:59] <bobbo> jono, yeah, he's keeping me busy :D
[16:59] <jono> bobbo, but a puppydog at heart
[16:59] <bobbo> hehe :D
[16:59] <dholbach> jono: slavedriver? says who?
[16:59] <jono> bobbo, also with Project Cleansweep announced you are ultimately responsible for it's success...no pressure :P
[16:59] <jcastro> hi bobbo!
[16:59] <jono> dholbach, lol, kidding
[16:59] <bobbo> hehe :D
[16:59] <bobbo> hey jcastro :)
[16:59] <dholbach> james_w: basically the view will go away eventually it's of little use once we have Dylan's "Fantastic Filters"(tm)
[17:00] <qense> dinner time, afk!
[17:01] <dholbach> james_w: it's just so that once we deploy nobody goes and kills the server
[17:01] <jono> dholbach, ok, one sec
[17:03] <dholbach> james_w: see how Dylan is making me code better - one day he'll make me write docstrings
[17:03] <jono> dholbach, logging on now
[17:04] <james_w> dholbach: never!
[17:04] <vish> czajkowski: yes , sad but its just human nature to like sensationalism more ;)
[17:04] <dholbach> james_w: yeah :)
[17:24] <bencrisford> afternoon
[17:39] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day
[17:39] <dholbach> see you!
[17:40] <nigelb> g'night!
[17:43] <jussi> laters dholbach
[17:43] <dholbach> bye guys
[18:55] <jono> jcastro, call in 5?
[18:56] <jcastro> jono: yessir
[18:56] <jcastro> jono: mumble?
[18:59] <jono> jcastro, yep
[18:59] <jono> ready when you are
[18:59] <jono> jcastro, cant hear you
[19:00] <jcastro> jono: ok one sec
[19:13] <jcastro> jono: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-app-indicator
[19:16] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationAreaTransition/CompatibilityFixes
[19:18] <jcastro> jono: you dropped out
[19:53] <popey> jono: hey! I sent you a mail, could you have a look when you get a mo?
[19:53] <jono> popey, will do
[19:53] <popey> thanks
[20:40] <jcastro> jono: can you send me the notes from the call please?
[20:40] <jono> jcastro, yep
[21:03]  * jcastro steps out for about an hour
[21:03] <jcastro> brb
[21:55] <boredandblogging> anyone know why empathy doesn't allow irc accounts to be set up if there are no existing accounts already?
[22:02] <doctormo> boredandblogging: Sounds like a bug
[22:02] <boredandblogging> doctormo: yeah
[22:03] <JanC> boredandblogging: does that happen in karmic too?
[22:03] <boredandblogging> JanC: don't know, don't have anything running karmic
[22:03] <Pendulum> JanC: I think I heard that as a thing with empathy in karmic, but I don't remember nwo
[22:04] <JanC> I found the new account "wizard" in empathy in lucid quite confusing
[22:04] <JanC> or maybe karmic (don't remember when I had to set up an account last)
[22:04] <JanC> I mean, I found it confusing on lucid, maybe it was like that in karmic too
[22:06] <JanC> although I doubt it was (I think I set up jabber in one of my karmic new-install test systems)
[22:58] <doctormo> JanC: Do some mock-ups of a design you would like to see.
[23:00] <JanC> doctormo: I found the previous dialogs less confusing, but maybe that's because I know how things work technically  ;)
[23:01] <doctormo> JanC: Think about what you would see if you had never seen a chat program before
[23:01] <doctormo> JanC: That's how it should be design IMO
[23:02] <czajkowski> Pendulum: I feel the need http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_75rGr5vENs
[23:02] <JanC> well, that doesn't work for people who know IM protocols exist  ;-)
[23:02] <Pendulum> the Ubuntu version of the Rickroll (not that I didn't know exactly what it was when you linked it :) )
[23:02] <JanC> maybe it can be fixed with some more explanation...
[23:03] <czajkowski> Pendulum: hah, I'd not listened to  it in ages!
[23:03] <JanC> (in the wizard's dialog window)
[23:04] <Pendulum> my only question when I saw the link was whether it was this version or the group singing at UDS :-)
[23:06] <JanC> doctormo: I don't believe in "what you would see if you had never seen a chat program before" as the only source for design ideas BTW  ;)
[23:07] <JanC> let's see if I can see what I mean in a guest account...
[23:09] <czajkowski> Pendulum: no that doesnt inspire me as much as the video
[23:10] <czajkowski> :p
[23:10] <Pendulum> czajkowski: also, you're about 6 hours early from when we were watching it in Brussels :P
[23:10] <czajkowski> Pendulum: eh?
[23:12] <JanC> doctormo: okay, so the thing was, I wanted to use/make a "local XMPP" aka "iChat" account, and the option to choose was something like "I only want to see local people" (which seems to think there is only one way to implement that, which is plainly wrong)
[23:12] <JanC> and of course no way to select that protocol from the protocol list
[23:13] <JanC> and I can confirm there is no way to use or make an IRC account  ☺
[23:14] <JanC> (I think the wizard should include an option to create a registered Freenode account)
[23:14] <Pendulum> czajkowski: we watched it at about 6AM every morning when we got up, it won't be 6AM In Brussels for another 6hours :P
[23:15] <JanC> I guess I should file a bug on empathy upstream about that...  ;)
[23:19] <doctormo> JanC: Needs more attention
[23:20] <czajkowski> Pendulum: gotcha
[23:25] <doctormo> czajkowski: I have to smile at that video you posted, I remember discovering half of the art works on deviantArt.
[23:25] <czajkowski> I love that video
[23:26] <czajkowski> it really makes my day, clearly either 2 hrs sleep makes me happy, or I am very easily pleased
[23:28] <Pendulum> :)
[23:38] <czajkowski> we have dates
[23:38] <czajkowski>  11.04 UDS - October 25-29 (2010)
[23:38] <czajkowski>         11.10 UDS - May 9-13 (2011)
[23:38] <czajkowski>         12.04 UDS - October 24-28 (2011)
[23:38] <Pendulum> \o/
[23:38] <maco> yay!
[23:39] <maco> Pendulum: do you know how to say "yay" (or "festival" or "party") in ASL?
[23:39]  * maco reeeeeeeeally hopes there are no midterms the last week of october
[23:45] <Pendulum> maco: no :(
[23:46] <maco> Pendulum: it's like \o/  put your fits next to your head and swirl 'em around
[23:49] <Pendulum> cool :)
[23:49] <Pendulum> I assume bigger the swirl, the more enthusiastic?
[23:50] <Pendulum> and is there a specific direction they should swirl in?
[23:58] <maco> umm when i do it, my right hand goes counter clockwise and left goes clockwise
[23:58] <maco> so they both go inward toward your head when they're going across the front of the circle they're making