rickspencer3hi RAOF00:10
RAOFrickspencer3: Good moring.00:10
TheMusoMorning guys00:12
rickspencer3Hi TheMuso00:15
rickspencer3hi robert_ancell good mornng00:15
robert_ancellrickspencer3, hi00:16
statikhey robert_ancell, just wanted to check in if my request about magicicada made sense, and if you saw anything during review that you wanted me to fix tonight?00:47
robert_ancellstatik, just saw email, haven't reviewed yet sorry00:53
statikrobert_ancell: cool, not trying to rush you just wanted to be responsive in case you wanted anything tweaked00:53
robert_ancellstatik, the name is a tongue twister :)01:01
statikrobert_ancell, it sure is! magic cicada or something like that01:02
robert_ancellstatik, you have a dupe depends line in the maverick package01:03
* statik looks01:04
statikrobert_ancell: ah yeah, fixing now01:05
robert_ancellonly other thing is lintian complaining about the lack of manpage01:06
statikrobert_ancell: gimme 10', I will upload a new version that includes a man page01:07
statiki should learn to better comply with policy that i disagree with :D01:08
robert_ancellstatik, heh, I'm in the same boat :)01:10
robert_ancellTheMuso, where can I see the NEW queue?01:11
TheMusorobert_ancell: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+queue I think01:13
robert_ancellstatik, following this process here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages.  I've added the needs-packaging tag to the bug report (remember to link to it in the changelog)01:18
statikrobert_ancell: ah, launchpad must have broken the bug filing form, i used the filing link from the wiki that is supposed to add the tag automatically01:20
statikrobert_ancell, yep I've got that bug linked up from the changelog01:20
robert_ancellstatik, yeah, that's broken.  I've filed a bug against LP about it01:20
statikrobert_ancell, the version up on REVU now has fixed the duplicate line in Depends: and includes a manpage (I have just test installed and proved that it works/displays correctly)01:22
statik(uploaded about 8 minutes ago)01:22
robert_ancellstatik, hmm, I can comment on REVU, is there a way for me to +1 this or is the comment sufficient? (I've only used REVU once before)01:24
statikrobert_ancell: I don't think you actually have to use REVU, it was just a convenient spot for me to upload and I like how it does some independent lintian checks for me. If you are comfortable with the package I would think it's ok for you to upload directly and then I can archive the package on REVU.01:29
robert_ancellstatik, I can upload but my stuff still gets stuck in the new queue.  I'll find someone today to review it from there01:31
statikrobert_ancell, thanks! i figured it would still need an archive admin to look at it in NEW01:32
robert_ancellstatik, where is the final version of the debian package?01:34
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
statikrobert_ancell, I uploaded a new version to REVU a while ago, I can copy it somewhere else if it's easier01:46
statikrobert_ancell, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/magicicada-1006080215/magicicada_0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc01:47
statikrobert_ancell: wait, that is not the right one01:48
robert_ancellstatik, push the debian dir to a bzr branch if that is easier01:49
statikyeah, i'll do that now01:49
statikrobert_ancell, here you go lp:~statik/+junk/magicicada-packaging01:51
robert_ancellstatik, ok, uploaded01:54
statikrobert_ancell, thanks!01:54
=== ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch
=== TheMuso` is now known as TheMuso
RAOFAnyone feel like a bit of X sponsoring?06:43
lifelessRAOF: lets see.06:44
lifelessRAOF: no.06:44
RAOFlifeless: Sure?  It's just -intel, -ati, and -nouveau.  And some of the input drivers.06:45
pittiGood morning07:22
RAOFGood morning pitti!07:25
pittihey RAOF07:28
RAOFAnyone available for some X sponsoring?07:58
mvoRAOF: what do you to get uploaded?08:05
RAOFmvo: The drivers for the new xserver, basically.08:07
mvoRAOF: ok, I can sponsor them if you want, where is the location?08:08
didrocksgood morning08:09
RAOFmvo: They're all available in pkg-xorg git.  debcheckout will get you the repository, and you'll want the ubuntu branch.08:09
RAOFmvo: If you'd prefer full source packages I can generate them and push them somewhere public.08:10
mvoRAOF: ok, I get nouveau first. should I use git-buildpackage or just debuild?08:12
RAOFgit-buildpackage for nouveau, because it'll generate the orig.tar.gz for you.  debuild is fine for the others08:13
mvoand there are updates for all of them? including more exotic ones like ivtv, mga etc08:13
RAOFSome of them have already been sync'd.08:14
RAOFThe list is…08:14
RAOFxserver-xorg-input-synaptics, xserver-xorg-video-intel, xserver-xorg-video-ati, xserver-xorg-video-cirrus, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau.08:15
=== lifeless_ is now known as lifeless
seb128hey there08:31
didrockssalut seb12808:35
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
didrocksseb128: c'était bien le sport hier soir ? ;)08:42
seb128lut didrocks, oui08:43
seb128et toi bonne soirée ?08:43
seb128let's review unity stack in NEW now, I didn't manage to do it yesterday08:44
didrocksseb128: ça c'est bien passé, oui, merci :)08:44
didrocksseb128: you can finish your morning tasks first, but when you have a spare cycle, yeah, I don't mind if you can do it :)08:45
seb128didrocks, is there an order for those?08:45
seb128didrocks, I prefer to start with those08:45
seb128then I will do emails etc08:45
didrocksseb128: not really, just "unity" should be the last08:45
didrocksseb128: bamf new binary NEWing (the -doc package)08:45
didrocksmaybe a soft start :)08:45
seb128I'm on dee08:45
seb128doing bamf next08:45
seb128so the changes in the diff.gz I told you about, that's not an issue I just wanted to point it in case that's things to clean in the next upload08:46
didrocksseb128: yeah, I'll try to see with unity guys if they can remove those from trunk too for next upload08:48
didrocksso that we don't get it anymore in diff.gz08:48
seb128didrocks, ls /usr/lib/libdee.so.?08:49
seb128didrocks, ups, libdee*08:49
didrocksseb128: starting my netbook which contains it installed08:49
seb128didrocks, ie how is named the library on disk?08:49
seb128ok thanks08:49
seb128I don't like much the -1.0-0 but I guess that's dx to blame08:50
didrocksseb128: yeah, dx wants now to have it for every package but libunity08:50
didrocksseb128: so soon, bamf will have it too08:50
pitti  gnome-session: Depends: gnome-session-common (= 2.30.0-1ubuntu2) but it is not installable08:51
didrocksso, it's libdee-1.0.so.008:51
pittilive fs builds fail with that for three days -- anyone knows what's up?08:51
seb128pitti, did anybody NEW it?08:51
pittiI don't know, I just saw the build error mail coming in08:51
seb128pitti, looking08:51
seb128it's not in NEW08:52
seb128pitti, I guess it has been NEWed to universe, checking08:52
pittiah, that's it08:52
seb128pitti, ok, I promote it08:52
pittiI wasn't aware that it's a new packge08:52
seb128I'm on the box doing NEW anyway08:52
pittiseb128: cheers08:52
seb128pitti, Debian did rework it08:53
seb128they added a gnome-session-3 for gnome-shell08:54
seb128didrocks, why do you need to clean those .a and .la in the rules?08:58
didrocksseb128: to avoid listing them in list-missing. I saw a lot of packages using that08:58
seb128didrocks, the .install include only .so.*08:58
seb128usually packages use that because they include a directory which has the .la in the .install08:59
seb128but ok, I've no strong opinion08:59
seb128        dh_girepository -pgir1.0-dee-0.108:59
seb128you call that08:59
seb128but this binary is not built?08:59
didrocksseb128: I can include to whole directory if that enables me keeping the rule :) but I prefer to only see really missing stuff08:59
seb128shouldn't you comment the dh_gir as well?08:59
seb128I guess it's not going to break the build though09:00
didrocksseb128: well, I kept it as it will be fixed for next week release normally, this can be called without failing09:00
seb128didrocks, I'm just giving small notes, nothing of that is a blocker for new09:00
didrocksseb128: so, I only commented the bare minimal09:00
seb128Upstream Author(s):09:00
seb128in copyright09:00
seb128you are supposed to pick if it's a plural or not ;-)09:01
seb128<- very picking now ;-)09:01
* seb128 hugs didrocks09:01
* didrocks hugs seb128 back09:01
didrocksdidn't you say I was to picking? :-)09:01
didrocksok, fixing that for next upload :p09:01
didrockswith "very critical typo" ;)09:02
seb128it's very minimal typo ;-)09:02
seb128I dislike the -dbg as well since we have -dbgsym builds but I guess it's useful for dx and njpatel?09:03
didrocksseb128: right, same for others packages09:03
didrocksit was a request for their daily build09:03
njpatelseb128, yessir09:03
seb128I'm wondering if they should build debug packages by default in their ppa09:03
seb128it nostrip on the actual lib09:03
seb128rather than adding a -dbg09:03
didrocksseb128: yeah, exporting NOSTRIP is good09:03
seb128but that's not a discussion for this upload round ;-)09:04
didrocksnice idea09:04
didrockshey njpatel btw o/09:04
seb128hey njpatel09:04
njpateldidrocks, seb128: morning :)09:04
seb128didrocks, dee newed09:04
* didrocks hugs seb128 (just 5 more hugs now ;))09:05
didrocksgrr, can't push or dput anything to LP for the last 10 minutes09:06
seb128didrocks, bamf accepted as well now09:11
seb128pitti, you got an sru ack for udisks from jdong09:13
seb128pitti, do you want me to sru accept it?09:13
pittiseb128: if you have a minute, please do09:13
seb128pitti, ok, doing09:13
pittidie, floppies, die!09:13
* pitti hugs seb128, merci09:14
* seb128 hugs pitti09:14
didrocksseb128: thanks :)09:14
didrockspitti: maybe one plan is to create a big electromagnetic field… oh wait, that will break a lot of other things too :)09:15
pittibut at least we would stop getting bug reports, since everyone is busy with building and ordering new hardware :)09:17
didrockshehe, sure, that's a good move so :)09:18
seb128Description: Miscellaneous functions for Unity - debug files09:24
seb128 This package contains files that are needed to build applications.09:24
didrocksoupss, fixing this09:24
seb128didrocks, you want to update the description for next upload09:24
didrocksseb128: yeah, I'll, thanks09:24
seb128didrocks, thanks for the e-d-s sru btw09:25
didrocksseb128: you're welcome :)09:25
seb128lut huats09:27
didrocksgood morning huats09:27
huatso/ seb128 didrocks09:27
seb128didrocks, libunity-misc newed09:42
didrocksseb128: thanks, preparing the changes, tagging the revision and pushing to ~unity-team09:42
seb128didrocks, indicator-datetime has 6 autogenerated files changed in the diff.gz09:52
didrocksseb128: ask ted, he's making it. I just merged and fixed some typo :) I'll notice him for next upload09:52
seb128I can tell him when he's there09:52
seb128didrocks, I'm not sure the GPL3 or newer is correct as well09:55
seb128but I will check with ted09:55
didrocksseb128: that's maybe me, but yeah, checking with upstream will be the best way to get it :)09:56
ccheneyat hospital, wife having baby10:07
mvobest wishes ccheney10:12
pitticcheney: ooh, good luck!10:12
seb128ccheney, good luck10:12
seb128pitti, do you have some free slot?10:12
seb128pitti, I would appreciate somebody else looking to unity-asset-pool in NEW10:12
pittiseb128: two other pings in the pipeline, will do in a bit10:12
seb128pitti, I'm not very comfortable with new sources with binaries and create licenses10:12
ccheneythanks guys10:13
seb128pitti, ok, no hurry10:13
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone10:13
chrisccoulsonara - i got the langpacks in to the PPA last night10:14
arachrisccoulson, OK, I will send the call for testing now to translators and I will follow up with the old call in ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-qa10:14
seb128hey chrisccoulson10:16
seb128chrisccoulson, any news about the new version?10:16
chrisccoulsonhey seb12810:16
chrisccoulsonthere's no news yet10:16
seb128chrisccoulson, did they publish or delay yet?10:16
dpmhola ara, morning. So you are going to CC translators, or do you want me to do a separate call?10:17
seb128hey ara, dpm10:18
arahola dpm, I think that you can send the call I prepared at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade10:18
seb128how are you today?10:18
aradpm, to translators, and I will follow up in u-qa a u-dev10:19
dpmmorning seb12810:19
araseb128, hey seb10:19
dpmara, ok, sounds like a plan, thanks!10:19
seb128ddpkg-source: info: upstream files that have been modified:10:26
seb128 unity-0.2.6/HACKING10:26
seb128just for info10:26
didrocksseb128: yeah, I guess this is from the same issue of file which is upstreamed and not in tarball, so merge-upstream will make it appear and add it to the tarball10:27
chrisccoulsonright, i'm going to be running fedora on my laptop for a bit for some firefox debugging10:27
didrocksseb128: when I will have some spare cycle, I will put all of that on a list and see with people to fix this10:27
seb128didrocks, right it's only details10:27
didrockswell, I like clean package :)10:27
seb128njpatel, you failed unity!10:28
seb128didrocks, ^10:29
seb128unity-place.c: LGPL (v3.0)10:29
seb128didrocks, njpatel: you need the LGPL text in the tarball and in the .c listed in the debian copyright10:29
didrockshum? didn't we add it. it rings a bell to me10:29
seb128didrocks, also copyright says LGPL10:30
seb128where COPYING says GPL10:30
seb128and all the sources but this one are under GPL310:30
njpateloh, so we need a COPYING.LGPL10:30
seb128njpatel, yes10:30
didrockshum, I sucked, I've changed that part yesterday as there were no licence and copied LGPL instead of GPL :/10:31
didrocksnjpatel: dummy release?10:31
seb128can something under the GPL have LGPL sources?10:31
njpatelseb128, didrocks: actually libunity probably should all be LGPL10:31
njpatelseb128, didrocks: Let me roll a new tarball with this fixed :)10:32
didrocksnjpatel: ok, then, I will update the debian/copyright10:32
seb128didrocks, njpatel: I'm rejecting unity10:32
didrocksseb128: sure :)10:32
njpatelseb128, that hurts, but yeah :)10:33
* didrocks begins the MIR copy and past tour10:34
seb128didrocks, njpatel: libunity-misc is distributed under what license?10:37
seb128I think I accepted it where I shouldn't have10:37
didrocksseb128: there are some LGPL 2, 3 and GPL 3 IIRC, let me check10:38
njpatelseb128, it's a mixture, but I think mostly lgplv210:38
seb128didrocks, njpatel: right but the tarball should be shipped under one license no?10:38
njpatelseb128, erm, I dunno. I thought you can have multiple-licenses in one tarball10:39
didrocksdon't now too much about the copyright stuff, but having multiple COPYING.* isn't correct?10:39
seb128but I think the tarball needs one license for redistribution10:40
seb128since it has GPL and LGPL sources it should be under the GPL I think10:40
seb128asac, pitti: ^ can you clarify please? ;-)10:41
didrockseven if they produce different binaries, some part under GPL and others in LGPL?10:41
didrockslicensing is a mess :-)10:41
njpatelah, that makes sense10:41
njpatelso, yeah, gpl10:42
seb128asac, pitti: context being https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-misc/0.1.1-0ubuntu110:42
seb128I'm not sure how much the COPYING being correct is needed there10:42
seb128ie if the COPYING should be GPL10:43
ccheney6 lb 9 oz10:43
seb128and then you should have .LGPL2 and LGPL310:43
artirgot a question for someone for canonical10:43
artir*in canonical10:43
seb128hi artir10:43
njpateldidrocks, rolling a unity 0.2.7 with fixed copyright for libunity10:44
didrocksnjpatel: thanks10:45
njpatelkamstrup, both approved :)10:46
asacseb128: didrocks: you can have multiple licenses in one tarball and also explicitly ship it under a multi license COPYING file10:47
asachowever, they ned to be compatible10:47
njpateldidrocks, https://edge.launchpad.net/unity/0.2/0.2.610:47
asacso if there is LGPL 2 only code combined with GPL3 only (or later) code in a "non-library" relation, then it would be bad10:47
seb128asac, what do you call "non-library"?10:50
seb128asac, can the source have COPYING COPYING.GPL etc10:50
seb128asac, does it need to specify somewhere a license for the tarball or just for each source?10:50
didrocksnjpatel: shouldn't it be 0.2.8? (or .7?) rebasing on the same tarball isn't fun with merge-upstream10:52
njpateldidrocks, 0.2.8 is for this weeks' release10:52
njpateldidrocks, this is just a point release with some fixes, hence just a 0.2.710:53
njpateldidrocks, license updates landed in libunity10:53
didrocksnjpatel: ok, because you posted 0.2.6 link :)10:53
njpatelah, right, I didn't create a new 'release', as the milestone is old, sorry :)10:53
didrocksnjpatel: no pb, rev 313 is the tip? (not tag)10:54
didrocksnjpatel: ok, I'll test it as there are a ot of incoming changes from last release :)10:55
njpateldidrocks, yeah, I mean if you could just use the tarball and not trunk, that would be good10:56
njpateldidrocks, as trunk has moved a bit10:56
didrocksnjpatel: not sure how merge-upstream behave if I don't use the trunk for once, I prefer to test with it, in any case next release will be in two days…10:56
njpatelyeah, makes sense10:57
asacnjpatel: didrocks: how about adding .symbols files to clutter? ... want us to do that?11:00
didrocksasac: sure, that would be great11:01
didrocksasac: can do it this week11:01
didrocks(probably today or tomorrow)11:01
seb128asac, could you review https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-misc/0.1.1-0ubuntu1 and let me know if there is anything that should be changed in the licenses?11:02
asacon a call .. .will ccheck in a bit11:03
didrocksseb128: testing unity 0.2.7 before pushing the fixed version11:04
seb128asac, thanks11:04
seb128didrocks, ok!11:04
pittiseb128: re11:05
seb128pitti, hey11:05
pittiseb128: still want me to have a look at u-asset-pool?11:05
seb128pitti, yes please if you have a free slot11:05
pittimultiple licenses is actually quite common11:05
seb128pitti, right, I'm just never sure if one should be set for the tarball11:06
seb128ie tarball being GPL with sources under GPL and LGPL11:06
seb128or if mixed sources without distribution license is fine as well11:06
pittiseb128: the tarball does have a COPYING, though?11:06
seb128it has a COPYING COPYING.LGPL and COPYING.GPL11:07
seb128where COPYING has the LGPL3 license11:07
pittiseb128: unity-asset-pool? I only see one COPYING there11:07
seb128but it has sources under GPL11:07
seb128pitti, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-misc/0.1.1-0ubuntu111:07
seb128pitti, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-misc/0.1.1-0ubuntu111:07
pittiso which one do you want me to look at then?11:07
seb128pitti, that's the one with the multi license11:07
seb128pitti, u-asset-pool is the one I pinged you about first since I've no clue about creative licenses11:07
seb128pitti, u-asset-pool please11:08
pittiok, doing that first11:08
seb128pitti, I already accepted the other one but I wanted to clarify with somebody who knows if the COPYING needs to be GPL in this case11:08
* didrocks needs to reboot, new kernel isn't great and hangs too much11:08
pittiseb128: in general, the tarball should ship all licenses it can be distributed under11:08
pittiseb128: if all sources are under GPL, then it shouldn't ship LGPL indeed11:09
pittithe individual files should still say which license they fall under, of course, but an extra license sounds confusing11:09
pittiI don't think it makes it unredistributable or anything like that, thuogh11:10
pittiseb128: u-a-p > main or universe?11:10
pittiseb128: it's the standard CC-BY-SA 3.0 plus trademark license that all our artwork has now, FYI11:11
seb128pitti, main if you can, didrocks has a serie of mirs for those11:11
seb128pitti, ok, I though it was ok but I wanted somebody to confirm it, thanks!11:11
pittilooks fine, accepted11:11
didrockspitti: thanks a lot :)11:12
didrocksok, back, retrying building unity11:12
seb128pitti, so back to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-misc/0.1.1-0ubuntu111:15
seb128pitti, sorry for not being clear11:15
seb128pitti, it has LGPL2 LGPL3 and GPL2 sources11:16
seb128pitti, which is fine11:16
seb128pitti, but the COPYING is LGPL311:16
seb128it also has COPYING.GPL and COPYING.LGPL211:16
seb128so it has the license texts11:16
seb128I was just wondering if COPYING should be GPL11:16
seb128i.e if it determines the redistribution license11:17
seb128because you can't ship GPL sources under the LGPL11:17
seb128pitti, not sure I'm clear11:17
didrocksseb128: pushed last unity with fixed copyright11:21
seb128didrocks, uploaded you mean?11:21
didrocksseb128: yeah11:22
pittiseb128: no, but you can ship LGPL sources under GPL?11:27
pittiseb128: I don't think that there's a notion of a "default" license, just because it's called "COPYING"11:27
pittitraditionally COPYING is GPL, so that's a little weird11:27
pittibut I don't feel we need to debate those little details unless/until someone actually complains :)11:28
seb128pitti, ok thanks, I was just checking11:29
seb128pitti, right you can ship source which are LGPL under the GPL, I was just checking if the COPYING had to be GPL11:30
pittiI don't know for sure, either11:31
seb128let's say that if nobody complain that's fine11:31
pittibut as long as the file headers are correct, it should be clear, just taking a while to figure out11:31
seb128upstream is dx anyway so we clarify if somebody complains one day11:31
pittiI heard upstream is a fierce and nitpicking license fascist guy who will sue us to death!11:32
seb128didrocks, ok, so lot of LGPL sources now11:33
seb128didrocks, but still not COPYING.LGPL11:33
didrocksnjpatel: ?? ^^11:33
seb128didrocks, njpatel: it's another fail!11:33
seb128didrocks, you didn't check before uploading?11:33
didrocksseb128: I've checked licencecheck -r *, not the content of the tarball, I must admit11:33
seb128so rejecting11:33
seb128you need a COPYING.LPGL11:33
didrocksseb128: maybe a good check to add to licencecheck, btw?11:34
seb128or the lgpl license somewhere11:34
seb128didrocks, could be11:34
didrocksseb128: it's in upstream trunk, maybe not in tarball11:34
seb128didrocks, so maybe redo a tarball with it added locally11:34
didrocksseb128: yeah, I think it's not in the dist target11:35
didrocksseb128: so last time, I checked in the packaging branch and get caught by a difference with the tarball11:35
didrocksthis time I checked trunk, and get caught by a difference with the tarball11:35
seb128get njpatel to fix in trunk11:35
didrocksnext time, I'll check ONLY the tarball :)11:35
seb128and repack the 0.2.7 tarball with the license for the upload11:35
didrocksseb128: I can fix it, not a big eal11:36
seb128no need to get another upstream version I guess11:36
didrocks0.2.7.1? :)11:36
seb128that would work as well11:36
seb128I was just suggesting to stop bothering njpatel ;-)11:36
didrocksyeah, let me fix the Makefile.am for now and propose a merge upstream11:37
didrockstrying with merge-upstream to redo a 0.2.7, let's see what happens :)11:38
njpatelseb128, didrocks: for got to add to EXTRA_DIST11:39
didrocksnjpatel: yeah, I've added it, do you care if I push in trunk or do you want to merge?11:40
njpateldidrocks, please just push :)11:40
didrocksseb128: unity 0.2.7 pushed with a shiny COPYING.LGPL and a new .pc file12:05
* duanedesign waves at didrocks12:06
didrockshey duanedesign, how are you?12:06
duanedesign:) good12:06
duanedesigndidrocks: looking forward to couchdb replication getting turned back on.12:08
didrocksduanedesign: on maverick, you mean? :)12:08
duanedesigndidrocks: Ubuntu One CouchDB replication has been disabled as they ramp up the servers to deal with all the increased traffic from the Lucid release12:11
=== DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow|lunch
didrocksduanedesign: oh ok, I didn't follow that. I hope they can deal with this quickly. But in any case, that's a good news, that means people are using it :)12:11
duanedesigndidrocks: the sync speed has improved a bunch in the last couple day12:13
didrocksduanedesign: great, I had to reset totally my tomboy file yesterday (it was broken for months not being able to synchronize) and I noticed that it was syncing very fast12:14
duanedesigndidrocks: yes i had to take a break from bug triage on the ubuntuone-client package. It was hard to debug issues with problems server side. Now I am playing catch up12:16
didrocksduanedesign: sure, and then, once the speed issue will be resolved, I guess you will have less dup about complains and stuff like that :)12:19
didrocksduanedesign: oh, btw, FYI: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing12:19
didrocksif you have any chance to play with that12:19
duanedesignoh nice. I was just going to the oneConf wiki page yesterday to see if any new stuff and got distracted.12:20
didrocksheh, if you can give some feedback, that would be great12:22
didrocksI need to add somethine like --customed-hostid <CUSTOMED_HOSTID> to update command so that it's easier to make some tests12:23
chrisccoulsonasac - i figured out the font settings issue now :)12:26
asacchrisccoulson: which one ;)?12:26
asacthe font config config bustage or the resetting of gtk settings one?12:26
chrisccoulsonasac - probably neither. firefox does ignore the gtksettings configuration and uses the fontconfig configuration, but it's not exposed on fedora due to their fontconfig settings12:30
asacchrisccoulson: on fedora it uses cairo12:30
chrisccoulsonasac - it makes no difference which cairo12:30
asacchrisccoulson: i am 100% sure that gtksettings is in theory preferred12:30
chrisccoulsoni tried our build on fedora and it works fine on there12:30
asacit makes a difference ;)12:30
chrisccoulsonhmmm, it didn't make any difference when i tried it12:31
asacit does for me ... --with-system-cairo honours the gtksettings (and overwrites what is in fontconfig) ... while --without-system-cairo only uses the fontconfig pieces12:31
asacmaybe fedora has a fontconfig hack that pulls in gtk settings?12:31
chrisccoulsonthat's strange, i don't see that12:31
asace..g like my vision12:31
asacchrisccoulson: what are you trying?12:32
chrisccoulsoni tried the 3.7 build from the dailies PPA, and that has the same issue as the build with --disable-system-cairo12:32
asacchrisccoulson: so i am not 100% sure abou 3.6 ... but for 3.5 i am reall really sure12:32
asacchrisccoulson: on hardy?12:32
chrisccoulsoni ran our build on fedora with the tree cairo, and the font configuration works properly12:32
asacchrisccoulson: what does "works properly" mean?12:32
chrisccoulsonand then i dropped our /etc/fonts in to the fedora system and it broke again12:32
asacyeah. so i think they have some special config12:33
asacthat pulls in gtk settings12:33
chrisccoulsonasac - "works properly" = honours the font settings from the gnome capplet12:33
asacso they could either have written a fontconfig backend12:33
asacor they have a gtksettings hook for fontconfig12:33
asac(backend for gnome capplet)12:33
asacboth we want12:33
asacand both would probably get broken by our /etc/fonts12:34
chrisccoulsontheir gnome capplet doesn't touch anything to do with fontconfig12:34
chrisccoulsoni'll have a look at their settings anyway12:34
asacyeah do that. also check ... afaik they align their system cairo version with the one in firefox12:35
asacwhich might make things better12:35
asacbut if /etc/fonts is causing issues, try copying their fonts dir to our  ;)12:36
asacand then lets do a diff ;)12:36
chrisccoulsonasac - it all goes wrong in gfxPangoFcFont::GfxFont in gfx/thebes/gfxPangoFonts.cpp. firefox calls FcFontRenderPrepare with a FcPattern which was initialized with all the correct settings from GtkSettings (which is working correctly), but that then calls FcConfigSubstitute internally which overwrites the settings with the fontconfig configuration, and it returns a FcPattern with all the wrong settings12:38
seb128pitti, thanks for the sru round!12:47
seb128asac, somebody might want to look at why gobject-introspection is failing to build on maverick armel, it might start breaking other builds over time12:50
asacchrisccoulson: all i remember was that i looked at a in-source debug build in debugger at some point at a struct with all nulled out12:53
asacwhich wasnt the case for system-cairo ;)12:53
asaci also remember that in some other code path that struct was not null12:53
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== oubiwann_ is now known as ouniwann
asacseb128: hmm. what is that example gir generated against?12:58
asacis that something that is built in that tree?12:59
seb128asac, yes13:00
seb128asac, it's one of the files built by gobject-instrospection itself13:00
chrisccoulsonasac - i have a diff of the fedora/ubuntu /etc/fonts settings now. the main difference is that fedora don't seem to be specifying things configurable from the gnome capplet anywhere in fontconfig13:06
chrisccoulsonwhich probably explains why it works :)13:07
asacwell yes. but ...13:08
asacfeel free to go ahead. if the problem with in-source cairo went away i would be happy13:08
asacbut it could be just a coincident of close enough system/in-source cairo versions13:09
asacchrisccoulson: in firefox gtksettings should win over fontconfig13:12
asaclike in gtk13:12
chrisccoulsonasac - it should, but firefox is overwriting them by calling FcFontRenderPrepare13:12
* asac hopes chrisccoulson is right ;)13:15
chrisccoulsonheh, so do i :)13:15
chrisccoulsonfirefox passes a FcPattern to FcFontRenderPrepare that was initialized with the correct properties from the cairo_font_options_t struct attached to the GdkScreen13:16
chrisccoulsonbut that call returns a FcPattern with all our properties overwritten by the fontconfig settings13:16
chrisccoulsonbut in fedora they aren't overwritten there13:17
asacchrisccoulson: are you on lucid?13:18
chrisccoulsonasac - yeah, i'm still on lucid13:18
asacmaybe try the same on hardy where the cairo version mismatch is bigger13:18
asacif its the same then thumbs up13:18
chrisccoulsonyeah, i will try it there too13:18
asacjust fix the order (e.g. apply the gdkscreen setting on top)13:18
chrisccoulsoni'll probably talk to someone from mozilla first - there font rendering code is quite complex and i don't want to break it ;)13:19
asactalk to karl13:19
chrisccoulsonhe's on #developers on mozilla IRC?13:20
asache was the one working on cleaning up the fontconfig/gtksetting pieces13:20
asacchrisccoulson: sometimes ... his nick is karl if he is there13:20
asacchrisccoulson: http://blog.karlt.net/13:20
asacchrisccoulson: i think we had a "ubuntu fonts broken with in-source cairo" bug13:21
asacyou can also post there ... he is usually quite responsive13:21
chrisccoulsonasac - ok, will do. thanks13:22
asacchrisccoulson: seems karl is currently online in #developers13:24
asacmaybe also try #gfx13:24
asacfor a personal atmosphere ;)13:24
chrisccoulsonheh, he was online until a second ago ;)13:26
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
chrisccoulsoni will try on hardy first and then speak to him after lunch13:27
* ccheney is about to head off to bed, only 1 hr sleep in past 24 isn't too great :-\13:38
asacccheney: fair enough ;) ... 'night13:38
ccheneyi will get my status updated in the wiki once i wake back up :)13:39
* ccheney is on paternity leave and will be back on Fri Jun 1813:39
asacah ... ARs - i remember those ;)13:39
chrisccoulsonasac - i just had a read of mozilla bug 458612, and it seems karl's opinion is that the fontconfig settings should have the final say, and what i've discovered in firefox is actually intentional13:40
ubot2Mozilla bug 458612 in Graphics "(Ubuntu) system fontconfig settings override GNOME font rendering screen settings" [Normal,Resolved: invalid] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45861213:40
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure what you think about that ;)13:40
chrisccoulsonhe seems to think we shouldn't be activating all the settings in /etc/fonts/conf.d13:40
asacchrisccoulson: i think firefox should behave as gtk and cairo by default is behaving13:42
asacwhich iirc is reading fontconfig and then overriding that with gtk settings13:42
asacbut as i said ... i think we should write a meta config mechanism that we can put into /etc/fonts/conf.d/50_gtksettings13:43
asacso that you could have defaults with < 50 ... and then still can override it in > 5013:43
asacfor some fonts13:43
asacand in ~/.fonts.conf13:43
asacsimilar to /etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf13:44
chrisccoulsonyeah, makes sense. i'll have to read the fontconfig documentation to figure out how to configure it :)13:44
asacso 49-gtk.conf ;)13:44
asacchrisccoulson: its not configurable atm ... requires some coding13:44
asaci think the problem is that fontconfig doesnt know anything about GdkScreen etc. and has no dependencies on gtk stack atm et.c13:45
asacbut from whati understand that would be the second best option13:45
asacbest option would be to eliminate the old gtksetting approach and just make gnome panel write ~/.fonts13:45
asacerr gnome configuration dialog i mean13:45
chrisccoulsonheh, time to test my new ISP's technical support for the first time14:20
seb128chrisccoulson, internet broke?14:21
chrisccoulsonseb128 - it's been running really slow all day14:21
chrisccoulsonit's usable for IRC, but that's about it14:22
asacchrisccoulson: reset router ;)14:22
chrisccoulsonasac - i tried that already :)14:22
asaci know14:22
chrisccoulsoni normally end up leaving my ISP out of frustration every time i have to make contact with technical support ;)14:22
arachrisccoulson, can you reply this comment in my blog?14:22
seb128use 3g? ;-)14:22
asaci tend to think that calling any ISP technical support is wasted time14:22
arachrisccoulson, http://ubuntutesting.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/call-for-testing-firefox/#comment-38314:22
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, i could use my 3G connection actually14:22
asacit just causes frustration14:22
chrisccoulsonara - just looking now14:23
arachrisccoulson, thanks14:23
chrisccoulsonara - the short answer is no and no ;)14:23
asacYOU ARE BUSTED ;)14:23
chrisccoulsonwe don't provide a downgrade path, and users mileage may vary if they try and run 3.0 with a profile that was upgraded to 3.614:24
asache should tell what the problems were because soon everyone will get that14:24
chrisccoulsonyeah, i'll probably leave a comment there in a minute14:24
arachrisccoulson, thanks!14:24
chrisccoulson"Hi Chris, Please ensure that you have rebooted the router to ensure it does not have a full NAT table"14:32
chrisccoulsonheh ;)14:32
rickspencer3I seem to have discovered the "insta-quit" feature in Evolution14:34
didrocksinsta-quit? using maverick? :)14:35
rickspencer3didrocks, yes14:36
rickspencer3If I repro it, I'll document the feature in a bug report14:36
didrocksrickspencer3: yeah, some emails still triggers this "feature" about cleaning your RAM :)14:36
didrocksrickspencer3: before alpha1, it was way more than that14:36
rickspencer3+ [segphault] Make storage providers modular and move local caching out of desktopcouch: DONE14:36
didrocksthe bug is under investigation upstream14:36
rickspencer3glad to see another DONE ;)14:36
seb128asac, pitti: do you guys would have some minutes for bug #587908 this week?14:38
ubot2Launchpad bug 587908 in dh-autoreconf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] dh-autoreconf (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58790814:38
seb128it should be trivial14:38
kenvandinehey rickspencer314:39
kenvandinerickspencer3, that one has been done for a while actually, he just never looks at the blueprint :)14:41
rickspencer3oh well14:41
kenvandinenow to get him to sync it to couch... then it will be useful14:41
rickspencer3it caching the messages really all that useful?14:42
kenvandinewow downloads from the archive is sllloooowww todya14:42
asacseb128: why is dh-autoreconf a new package? ;)14:42
asacshouldnt that be in debhelper?14:42
kenvandinerickspencer3, well it is more than just messages14:42
rickspencer3I mean syncing14:42
rickspencer3syncing the settings is required, I suppose14:42
kenvandineit completely uses sqlite locally14:42
didrocksasac: upstream is following the bug report, you can maybe ask him14:42
kenvandineand accounts14:43
kenvandineso right now it is either or...14:43
seb128asac, ask on the bug the debian and upstream maintainer is subscribed14:43
seb128asac, but it has rules for cdbs, dh7, etc14:43
seb128asac, I don't really care about where it goes, I just want to use it ;-)14:43
seb128asac, thanks14:43
asacseb128: is juliank a guy with good reputation?14:43
didrocksdh_autoreconf FTW \o/14:43
asacwell.. i havent acked it14:44
asacbut will in a bit14:44
asac(have to loko at the packaging)14:44
rickspencer3good morning tremolux14:44
tremoluxrickspencer3: 'morning!14:44
rickspencer3tremolux, I added a software-center update section to today's team meeting wiki14:45
tremoluxrickspencer3: ok, sounds good14:45
rickspencer3though it occurs to me I just sent an update to someone yesterday14:45
* rickspencer3 forward to tremolux14:45
seb128asac, I've not worked much with him, but he's the debian python-apt maintainer, mvo might know14:45
seb128mvo, is juliank usually doing nice work?14:46
asacno need to figure out ... just wondered if his vouching should be considered in any way14:46
seb128mvo, he's also maintaining update-manager and update-notifier in debian14:46
seb128asac, I think he's around for a while so we can give him some credit14:47
seb128asac, ie he's not the first newcomer doing random crack14:47
seb128asac, which I think was your question ;-)14:47
mvoseb128: julian? he knows what he is doing :) in what context is the question?14:48
asacseb128: ;)14:48
mvoasac: what package?14:48
seb128mvo, asac reviewing dh-autoreconf mir for us14:48
seb128asac, thanks14:48
seb128didrocks, ^14:48
didrocksasac: thanks a lot :)14:48
mvoaha, and juliank wrote it? yeah, that should be fine (also I'm puzzled, did he write it in perl?)14:48
didrocksmvo: yes, it's in perl14:49
mvohe is usually a python guy, oh well14:49
asacpitti: where is your dpkg --filter patch ;)?14:51
asacpitti: the one from here: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.dpkg.general/11941 ;)?14:52
pittiasac: yes, but it was extensively discussed and changed since then; it finally landed upstream yesterday, see http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=commitdiff;h=4694cd614:53
pittiasac: I'm heavily using that for an OEM project now, and it's working well14:54
asacpitti: cool. whats your win for a full netbook install for man and doc?15:01
asacpitti: so to deply its just dropping a conf snippet in /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d?15:01
pittiasac: haven't tested that, but I expect about .5 GB15:01
asacpitti: do you have other data?15:02
asaclike what win did you get in your deployment?15:02
pittiasac: do you have access to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hedley-team/hedley/hedley-config/annotate/head%3A/etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/01_no_documentation ?15:02
* asac checks15:02
asacbut i wont handle it anyway. if it landed i am more than happy and we will pick it up ;)15:02
asacand maybe give some data ;)15:03
pittiasac: just du -hsc /usr/share/doc/15:04
seb128didrocks, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/0.2.7-0ubuntu1/+build/178145215:04
pittiasac: we keep the copyright files, which are a couple of MB15:04
seb128didrocks, unity is depwait15:04
pittiasac: and du -hsc /usr/share/man, etc.15:04
didrockshum, didn't I pushed clutk? let me check15:05
seb128didrocks, depwait on gir1.0-clutter-gtk-0.1015:05
didrocksargh, weird, let me check15:05
didrocksoh, it's in universe15:06
seb128didrocks, ok, promoting it15:06
didrocksseb128: thanks :)15:06
seb128didrocks, the source is in main I didn't notice the binary was not15:06
didrocksseb128: no pb, I didn't notice it was stalling15:07
didrockswell, we have the same issue in lucid, but I guess not a lot of people will complain about it15:07
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
dobeywhen i bzr builddeb -S to upload to maverick, do i need to put the series in the changelog, or leave it as UNRELEASED?15:25
mvodobey: you need to put "maverick" instead of UNRELEASED15:27
kenvandinedobey, if you are uploading, set it to maverick15:27
dobeywell i didn't apply to get PPU rights, to not upload stuff :)15:28
LaneyI usually do dch -r && debcommit -r15:30
Laneyand keep it at UNRELEASED until uploading15:31
didrocksseb128, njpatel: people are already speaking on the French forum about "Unity is in maverick now" :)15:48
njpatelNice :)15:49
=== ouniwann is now known as oubiwann
asacdidrocks: alf will work on the clutter symbols15:57
asacthat helps him getting his hands on it15:57
asac(if you dont mind)15:57
asache already works on doing the gles/egl stuff for clutter 1.3.2 ...15:57
didrocksasac: oh ok, I was just starting at it, but I won't die if I don't have to do it :)15:57
asacdidrocks: btw, whats the debian situation for clutter? are we leading the packaging or following them?15:58
didrocksasac: tell him to assign him the bug15:58
asacdidrocks: is there a bug?15:58
* asac checks15:58
didrocksasac: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-1.0/+bug/59120815:58
ubot2Launchpad bug 591208 in clutter-1.0 (Ubuntu) "add .symbols file (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,In progress]15:58
didrocksasac: well, it depends, I'm updating it and try to follow upstream change15:58
didrocksasac: at least, before updating, we should check our clutter rdepends as we have a lot by default now (unity being the new one)15:59
asacdidrocks: would you be open to move to debhelper 7? for now we have to do a two build run for egl/gles and that is imo better in dh715:59
didrocksasac: even with being conservative to API, something can break15:59
asacdidrocks: i know.15:59
asacdidrocks: talked to njpatel already ... understand that we need to align version properly15:59
didrocksasac: sure, moving to debhelper seems great for things where we don't really on dpkg-binarymanger16:00
asacbut but ... 1.3.x is the only version where gles 2.0 works from what alf found ... so we might have no choice in mid term16:00
didrocksgrrr :)16:00
seb128asac, you might want to try to debian to agree on the change ;-)16:00
didrocksasac: sure, just ensure we can discuss about it long before enough to not have those broken16:00
asacdidrocks: dpkg-binarymangler? like strip translations etc.? thought that was hooked in from outside16:00
seb128asac, since we can basically sync clutter usually16:00
njpateldidrocks, asac: we should land it and then fix Unity if needs be. theres no good way to test right now16:00
asacseb128: right. wanted to understand who maintains it16:01
didrocksasac: I think that doesn't work with non cdbs stuff, but I may be wrong16:01
seb128asac, debian and didrocks for us16:01
asacnjpatel: we are currently bringing the stack into a ppa ... so we can see what happens16:01
njpatelasac, oh, brilliant16:01
asacdidrocks: pkg-striptranslations works16:01
seb128didrocks, the binarymangler works with everything16:01
seb128it's on the buildds16:01
seb128what doesn't work is the magics to add gettext domains to desktop files etc16:01
asacits hooked in dpkg-* commands16:01
didrocksoh sweet, it was blocking me for pushing some stuff in dh7, well, I'll do that in my spare cycle (like for unity and dh7)16:02
seb128but clutter doesn't need those16:02
asacso unless you dont even use those it should work ;)16:02
didrocksseb128: oh ok, so can't for unity so. I knew there were something not working :)16:02
asacright. gettext isnt supported, but usually is no problem if we dont ship strings in the packaging part16:02
seb128didrocks, well, langpacks need the build time tools for schemas, desktop, etc16:02
didrocksok :)16:02
didrocksseb128: isn't binarymangler which add gettext domains and help for langpacks?16:03
seb128the mangler clean the mo files and move those somewhere to be collected by langpacks16:04
asacso should we send a mail with the suggested packaging changes to debian gnome maintainers list?16:04
asacor where?16:04
seb128asac, open a bug in the bts16:04
asacare they reading bug mail ;)?16:05
didrocksseb128: ok, and what is doing the magic for schemas and desktop? just a patch to /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/langpack.mk ?16:05
seb128didrocks, ? not a patch, the rules you just pointed there16:06
seb128didrocks, I'm not sure to understand the question16:06
rodrigo_seb128, there's a ubuntu-desktop meeting today here, right?16:06
seb128rodrigo_, yes, in 1h2416:06
didrocksseb128: I mean an ubuntu patch, as there is some specific ubuntu stuff there16:06
rodrigo_seb128, ok16:06
Laneyit's a patch to cdbs16:06
Laneyan ubuntu patch yes16:06
seb128didrocks, right, langpack.mk is ubuntu specific16:07
seb128didrocks, gnome.mk includes it on the ubuntu cdbs16:07
seb128didrocks, which reduces the number of changes we need to do16:07
seb128ie things using gnome.mk need no changes16:07
didrocksseb128: oh sweet, I didn't know it was hooked like that. Sounds clever :)16:08
=== issyl0_ is now known as issyl0
pittirickspencer3, seb128: I have an appointment this evening, so I can't join the meeting16:20
rickspencer3pitti, ack16:20
seb128pitti, ok16:20
didrocksseb128: when you will have some spare cycle, I just wrote that and I want your opinion about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Maverick/NetbookLauncherToUnity16:43
seb128didrocks, is tomorrow ok?16:44
didrocksseb128: sure, it can be even next week :)16:44
seb128didrocks, I still have a stack of srus to do today, didn't write my activity report yet, didn't prepare the meeting and still fight some bugs16:44
seb128didrocks, ok, so it will be tomorrow16:44
seb128didrocks, can you drop me the url in an email so I don't forget?16:45
didrocksseb128: good luck, do not hesitate if I can help somewhere16:45
didrocksseb128: sure16:45
tremoluxdidrocks: heya Didier, I'm sorry that I'm only just today getting some time to try out your rocking OneConf16:48
tremoluxdidrocks: working from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing16:48
didrockstremolux: heh, no pb :) as long as you can test it, it's good :)16:49
didrockstremolux: I think nobody else did  :-)16:49
didrocksre seb12816:49
seb128didrocks, sorry not sure I asked before restarting the session but how busy are you?16:49
tremoluxdidrocks: k  :D16:49
didrocksseb128: I was just telling "didrocks | seb128: good luck, do not hesitate if I can help somewhere"16:50
tremoluxdidrocks: so, I get an error right off: http://tremolux.pastebin.com/cXK2kw7J16:50
didrocksseb128: so, let's say I won't begin a new WI today, you can ask :)16:50
tremoluxdidrocks: what'd I do wrong?  :P16:50
seb128didrocks, right, that's a follow up to that question16:50
tremoluxdidrocks: one this is that I think "sudo cp oneconf/ /usr/share/dbus-1/services/" in the wiki is meant to be "sudo cp oneconf/misc/com.ubuntu.OneConf.service /usr/share/dbus-1/services/"16:51
seb128didrocks, do you want to do some lucid sru-ing?16:51
tremoluxdidrocks: (which is what I did)16:51
didrocksseb128: sure16:52
seb128didrocks, ok, thanks16:52
didrockstremolux: hum, can you try with --debug --direct, please?16:52
tremoluxdidrocks: oh, I just have a meeting starting up with IDS folks, I will have to get back to this a little later, sorry!16:52
tremoluxdidrocks: then I will try that, thanks  :)16:52
didrockstremolux: no pb, it would be interesting to print which package doesn't have dep or recommends, I think it's the cause :)16:53
didrockstremolux: I don't have it installed there in any case :p16:53
seb128didrocks, can you look at bug #52855716:53
didrockstremolux: but it's a check to add, thanks ;)16:53
ubot2Launchpad bug 528557 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "cannot turn on alarm for meeting received via email (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52855716:53
seb128didrocks, http://git.gnome.org/browse/evolution/log/?h=gnome-2-2816:53
didrocksseb128: sure, easy to test at least :)16:53
seb128didrocks, it's about applying the 3 most recents commits16:54
seb128didrocks, with the sru bug work, diff etc16:54
seb128didrocks, thanks!16:54
didrocksseb128: thanks for the recipe :)16:54
seb128didrocks, let me know when you are done if you want to do another one ;-)16:54
* seb128 hugs didrocks, you're welcome16:55
* didrocks feels that seb128 wants him to become little by litlle the evolution maintainer :-)16:55
* didrocks hugs seb128 back, good luck with your work16:55
pittigood night everyone!16:57
seb128'night pitti16:57
didrockshum, I have to install a new lucid for testing this16:57
didrocksgood night pitti16:57
seb128didrocks, why?16:57
seb128didrocks, don't do an install for that16:58
didrocksseb128: well, I don't have anymore lucid since today's tests16:58
didrocksseb128: really? and for testing?16:58
seb128I was going to say that one box and testing that evolution is still working is enough16:58
seb128but if you have 0 lucid that's an issue right16:58
didrocksyeah, that's what I'm setuping again, shouldn't take long :)16:59
seb128I though you didn't want to mix with other sru updates or something16:59
seb128didrocks, ok, good, thanks16:59
seb128good to still have a lucid box handy until at least .116:59
didrockssure, but had to reinstall and setup an LVM, so scratching my netbook dropbox :)16:59
GrueMasterDoes anyone have a link or list of proposed app changes to UNE?  I'd like to do testing on arm to make sure we are aligned.17:08
didrocksGrueMaster: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection17:09
GrueMasterWow, looks like a wipe of mono based apps (except Evolution).17:11
stazGrueMaster: Evolution isn't written in mono17:11
jcastrodidrocks: when do you plan to seed the global menu to UNE? Alpha2?17:17
didrocksjcastro: yeah, I have one WI for alpha2, it has to be in maverick first and a MIR has to be written17:18
jcastrook so I have some time then. :)17:18
rickspencer3tremolux, ArneGoetje, bryceh, didrocks, kenvandine, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, whoever I forgot17:28
rickspencer3team meeting in 2 minutes17:28
seb128hey rickspencer317:28
rickspencer3hi seb12817:28
rickspencer3I'm back from the phone :)17:28
didrockshey rickspencer317:28
seb128rickspencer3, you forgot chrisccoulson again ;-)17:28
* kenvandine waves17:28
chrisccoulsonheh ;)17:28
chrisccoulsoni really need to fill in my activity report this week17:29
rickspencer3hi chrisccoulson17:29
chrisccoulsonhi rickspencer317:29
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, yes, and last week as well ;)17:29
rickspencer3tsk tsk17:29
chrisccoulsoni'll do it in a bit ;)17:29
seb128I need to do that as well17:29
seb128yesterday and today have been crazy busy17:29
chrisccoulsonyeah :)17:29
rickspencer3ok, we'll try to have a fast meeting and break in time for people to add their activity reports ;)17:29
rickspencer3no tkamppeter?17:30
rickspencer3tkamppeter, what happened, you're always right on the ball with your activity reports :)17:30
rickspencer3I am losing control of the team!17:30
statikrickspencer3, i've asked rodrigo_ to start visiting these weekly meetings to report on online services work items, if it fits in with your agenda.17:30
statikor else to just listen in17:30
rickspencer3statik, sure17:30
rickspencer3we have a section on partner updates17:31
rickspencer3we'll ask rodrigo to go right after kenvandine17:31
rickspencer3everyone ready?17:31
rodrigo_ok :)17:31
* rickspencer3 taps gavel17:31
rickspencer3first, actions from last week17:31
tremoluxheya desktop team!17:31
rickspencer3which I bungled and put in actions from this week17:32
rickspencer3Testing Firefox update in Hardy17:32
chrisccoulsoni've got some feedback from that now17:32
rickspencer3uh ...17:32
chrisccoulsonand i'm just working on the remaining issues17:32
rickspencer3yeah, quite a bit of that I think17:32
rickspencer3could someone paste in a link to the tracking wiki when they get a sec?17:32
chrisccoulsonthe main issue is that the fonts don't look very good, but i've got to the bottom of that now17:32
chrisccoulson(i just need to think of a way forward)17:32
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, sweet17:32
rickspencer3can we hold up the roll out until that is resolved?17:33
chrisccoulsonyeah, we can17:33
chrisccoulsonand there had been no 3.6.4 release yet anyway17:33
chrisccoulsonthe other issues are some plugins not working17:33
chrisccoulsonbut that's due to the install location changing, which is simple to fix17:34
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, can you paste in a bug # for the record when you get a moment?17:34
chrisccoulsonyeah, can do17:34
rickspencer3a bug # for that as well would be nice17:34
chrisccoulsonand jdstrand tested epiphany last week and found some regressions17:34
rickspencer3as well17:34
rickspencer3how serious are those regressions?17:34
chrisccoulsonone of them is pretty bad17:35
chrisccoulsoni'm just trying to find the bug #17:35
rickspencer3ok, just paste those bug #s in when ready17:35
seb128rickspencer3, http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/417317:35
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, bug 58987717:35
ubot2Launchpad bug 589877 in epiphany-browser (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "epiphany (webkit) doesn't clearly warn about invalid SSL certificates (affects: 2) (heat: 266)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58987717:35
seb128the tracker17:35
rickspencer3thanks seb12817:35
chrisccoulsonother than that, there aren't any real major issues17:36
rickspencer3that epihpany bug does not seem like a regression to me17:37
rickspencer3oh well, we can discuss later, we can move on17:37
chrisccoulsonit's a regression from the gecko version in hardy i think17:37
rickspencer3that other action item was OneConf Testing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing17:37
rickspencer3tbh, I am assuming that only didrocks got to this17:37
rickspencer3due to all the work with mozilla17:38
tremoluxthis I'm keen on testing and learning, and I've started but only today17:38
didrockswell, not a lot of feedback, just tremolux had a try with a bug I can fix quicklly :)17:38
seb128I didn't have time for it17:38
seb128sorry didrocks17:38
* kenvandine hasn't had time...17:38
didrocksno pb :) in any case desktopcouch don't start in maverick yet17:38
chrisccoulsonme neither, but i promise i'll return the favour for all the mozilla testing when i have some spare time :)17:38
rickspencer3lets carry that one over for another week?17:38
rickspencer3kenvandine, partner update?17:38
rodrigo_didrocks, oh, I was trying to hunt a bug for evo-couchdb not working, thanks for pointing that, it might be desktopcouch indeed17:39
didrocksrodrigo_: just keep me posted if I can help there17:39
rodrigo_didrocks, sure, will do :)17:39
kenvandineDX team weekly releases as usual, should be working on getting indicator-network and connman into maverick soon17:39
kenvandineOLS has changed their weekly release schedule, desktop stuff will land on wednesdays17:40
rickspencer3so the server side release is today?17:40
kenvandineso they can get server changes deployed on tuesdays, they decided it was too much to try to land them both on the same day17:40
kenvandinerickspencer3, yeah17:40
kenvandinerodrigo_, got anything to add?17:40
rickspencer3how is it going today?17:40
rodrigo_kenvandine, was going to say that same thing, so no :)17:41
kenvandinerodrigo_, is their a tracking page for server deployment?17:41
rickspencer3I was just about to ask ;)17:41
rodrigo_kenvandine, hmm, we are using kanban, which is just for the team17:41
kenvandineoh... right17:41
rodrigo_I'll ask and see if we can get something17:41
kenvandinei have access to that17:41
rodrigo_kenvandine, ah, cool17:42
kenvandinerodrigo_, lets get it on the same wiki page17:42
kenvandinethat's all i have for partner update17:42
kenvandineoh... one more thing17:42
rickspencer3iPhone with a clear screen?17:42
kenvandineOLS blueprints are still not "accepted" so not showing up on the burndowns17:42
rickspencer3that can be fixed17:43
kenvandinerickspencer3, i have a list of blueprints... if you can accept them17:43
rickspencer3kenvandine, sure, PM them17:43
kenvandineit looks like chipaca doesn't have access to that17:43
rickspencer3I'll do it asap17:43
kenvandinewill do17:43
rickspencer3didrocks, are you going to cover ConnMan/Network indicator in your UNE section?17:43
rickspencer3I assume that this roles out in UNE only for maverick, right?17:43
didrocksrickspencer3: not really, but I can have a word about it17:44
didrocksbasically the network indicator is in kenvandine's hands17:44
didrocksit won't be default for UNE before alpha317:44
kenvandinerickspencer3, you've got mail :)17:44
rickspencer3but will end up in UNE, not the desktop, right?17:44
rickspencer3just making sure :)17:45
rickspencer3thanks kenvandine, didrocks17:45
* didrocks sees rickspencer3 being scared :)17:45
statikI wanted to tell someone about the work I've been doing on merging Erlang from debian, was going to try and get it in before Alpha2 but I'm not sure if this is the right meeting to mention it in.17:45
rickspencer3Riddell, Kubuntu update?17:45
kenvandinei will try to get indicator-network ready for upload to maverick this week though17:45
kenvandineso we have time17:45
Riddell * alpha 1 out and working reasonably17:45
Riddell * ninjas are cracking on with KDE SC 4.5 beta 217:45
Riddell * a load of MIRs being applied for, neeed for koffice, kdevelop and KDE SC17:45
Riddell * kubuntu.org might get some progress, sysadmins are setting up a server for our guy to set up the site on17:45
rickspencer3statik, we have a "any other business section" that comes in a bit17:45
rickspencer3Riddell, are your MIRs blocked at all?17:46
rickspencer3do you need someone to ack those or anything?17:46
Riddellrickspencer3: well I only just applied for them so not yet17:46
rickspencer3thanks Riddell17:46
Riddellbut sometimes it takes a few weeks and I'd rather give warning now than get grumpy then17:47
rickspencer3Riddell, that's what I was getting at17:47
seb128we have a manpower issue for mir and sru I think17:47
rickspencer3maybe someone could take of that for you quickly this time17:47
seb128between pitti being on rotation, asac being rather busy, etc17:47
seb128cjwatson sprinting this week and busy as well17:47
brycehwe've got an x.org sru that would be really nice to get attention on17:48
seb128speaking of MIR we have quite some for unity as well17:48
rickspencer3sounds like we need more people in a position to accept MIRs?17:48
seb128rickspencer3, we do yes17:48
seb128and SRUs17:48
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to beg and plead for attention with stack of Unity and Kubuntu MIRs17:48
seb128but those are not easy to find17:48
seb128rickspencer3, thanks ;-)17:48
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to beg and plead for attention with stack of xorg-xserver SRUs17:48
seb128it's not a stack for xorg17:48
seb128but we have a stack of other SRUs17:49
rickspencer3seb128, ack17:49
rickspencer3I'll see if I can negotiate something to clear the pipeline17:49
seb128rickspencer3, thanks17:49
rickspencer3tremolux, software-center update? (looks familiar)17:49
tremoluxrickspencer3: you bet  :)17:49
tremoluxrickspencer3: I just summarized yours a bit since it hits the major points17:50
rickspencer3tremolux, can you hit the 3 or 4 high points here for folks?17:50
tremoluxwe just had a quick session with Ricardo Kirkner about the payment API17:50
tremoluxwe are moving well on buy something with all teams moving ahead17:51
tremoluxand will be doing some prototyping with the payment API this week17:51
tremoluxthe new apps on stable release is in good shape on the back end, support is pretty much there17:52
rickspencer3tremolux, can we put an app in there to start testing it out?17:52
tremoluxand we just need to make the new apps fun and discoverable using a UI currently being spec'd by mpt17:52
rickspencer3maybe just a window with a button or something?17:53
tremoluxrickspencer3: we just need the archive set up17:53
rickspencer3is there an eta for that?17:54
tremoluxyeah, I'm not sure of the eta17:54
tremoluxbut we can make a test PPA17:54
tremoluxnot blocked by it17:54
rickspencer3ACTION: rickspencer3 to find ETA for new apps archive17:55
rickspencer3thanks tremolux17:55
rickspencer3moving on ...17:55
rickspencer3didrocks, UNE update?17:55
didrocksso, unity 0.2 is pushed in maverick :)17:55
rickspencer3didrocks, what do we do if we want to run it on our netbooks?17:55
rickspencer3$sudo apt-get install unity?17:55
didrocksrickspencer3: well, right now, the situation is kind of ackward for that, you will need my help :)17:56
didrocksrickspencer3: I don't want to update ubuntu-netbook-default-settings and seeds until all components are in main17:56
rickspencer3fair enough17:56
didrocksall MIR are done, there are bunches of them17:56
rickspencer3so we are blocked on MIRs there17:56
didrocks(they are all listed in the desktopteam meeting page)17:56
rickspencer3anything to add didrocks?17:56
didrocksthen main -> new settings -> new seed17:56
rickspencer3btw, Unity! Yeah!17:56
rickspencer3can't wait to run it17:57
didrocksno, I'll speak about cadence and release next week :)17:57
rickspencer3thanks didrocks17:57
rickspencer3moving on ..17:57
didrocksyou're welcome17:57
rickspencer3seb128, release status?17:57
seb128hey everybody17:57
seb128so maverick alpha1 is out now17:57
seb128which means we have an updated trend line following alpha2 now17:58
seb128as you can see we are slightly behind17:58
seb128and not really making progresses recently17:58
seb128so please update your work items regularly17:58
seb128and let me or rick know if you are behind for some reason or need help17:58
seb128ie we know chrisccoulson is busy full time on firefox updates for example17:59
rickspencer3seb128, can we briefly discuss things we might want to move to A3?17:59
seb128rickspencer3, yes17:59
rickspencer3maybe give chrisccoulson some breathing room there17:59
seb128I'm fine moving this one, though I think it can be done once firefox is out of the way17:59
rickspencer3didrocks, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-quickly?18:00
chrisccoulsonyeah, once i've  got the firefox updates done, i should make relatively quick progress with that18:00
didrocksrickspencer3: well, we have to speak about that with gedit plugin system which changes and will break every existing plugins18:00
didrocksrickspencer3: so, it will make some room there. Not sure if we can have it for maverick because of that18:00
rickspencer3didrocks, so move it to A3 and focus on Unity/UNE for rest of A2?18:00
didrocksrickspencer3: sure18:01
rickspencer3well ... Unity > quickly18:01
didrocksI still can do the pushing gpg key and other stuff18:01
rickspencer3didrocks, sounds good18:01
rickspencer3let's talk alter about what to postpone18:02
rickspencer3kenvandine, Empathy work, move it to A3?18:02
seb128I would rather have that done early that late18:02
rickspencer3https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-gwibber-test-suite also should go to A318:02
kenvandinerickspencer3, that already is18:02
kenvandinethere is just one WI for A2... which i can move18:03
rickspencer3kenvandine, ok, there was one targeted for A218:03
seb128rickspencer3, there is only one item from this one which is to select the tool18:03
seb128which seems fair enough18:03
kenvandineseb128, yeah... that won't consume much time18:03
rickspencer3kenvandine, can you please select the tool and then set that one to DONE?18:03
kenvandinehehe... i will soon... maybe today18:03
rickspencer3seb128, so you'd rather see kenvandine move https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-social-api to A318:03
kenvandineseb128, the empathy work is kind of blocked...18:03
rickspencer3and do Empathy blueprint?18:04
seb128kenvandine, on what?18:04
kenvandinethere are some upstream bugs for telepathy-glib vapi generation18:04
kenvandinewhich is actively being worked on18:04
seb128rickspencer3, do we really on those social api for maverick?18:04
seb128ie will they be used?18:04
rickspencer3seb128, yes18:04
seb128so let's move empathy after that or to a318:05
seb128I don't think we need to defer that much now though18:05
rickspencer3I wonder if Empathy > SFTS APIs prioritize wise though18:05
seb128we still have some weeks and we are on the trend line if you don't count foreing tasks18:05
rickspencer3but if kenvandine is blocked on empathy, it doesn't matter anyway18:05
rickspencer3seb128, bit if you eleminate foreign tasks, you have to lower the starting point for the trend line as well18:06
seb128if we rely on those api for others changes I would say api > empathy18:06
rickspencer3it's a moot point if kenvandine is blocked on empathy, anyway18:06
kenvandinei have the basic service written for empathy, it just doesn't do anything interesting yet :)18:06
rickspencer3ok, so sounds like:18:06
rickspencer31. we can get under the trendline by moving some work to A318:06
seb128I will check work items with team members during the week and bring us back on the line for next week18:07
rickspencer32. once again, our eyes were bigger than our stomachs18:07
seb128I guess we will see a drop tomorrow with didrocks work18:07
rickspencer3seb128, yeah18:07
seb128ie he got a stack of unity one checked today18:07
didrocks(thanks to seb128 again for all the NEW reviews :))18:08
seb128rickspencer3, I don't think we are that far on estimation, but we didn't take things like the firefox security update in account for counting18:08
rickspencer3seb128, any more on release status, I kind of grabbed the mic there18:08
rickspencer3yeah, firefox was lots of extra work18:08
rickspencer3we should point out ...18:08
rickspencer3that chrisccoulson is quite the hero!18:08
rickspencer3we would be screwed without his tireless efforts these last week18:08
chrisccoulsoni will be glad when it's finished so i can start on maverick :)18:08
seb128chrisccoulson rocks!!!18:08
chrisccoulsonand then we will be preparing for firefox 4 ;)18:08
tremoluxyeah chrisccoulson  \o/18:08
* asac hugs chrisccoulson 18:09
* chrisccoulson hugs asac18:09
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, I'm working hard looking for another person, so hang in there18:09
chrisccoulsonthanks :)18:09
rickspencer3and don't forget to take swap days when you get the chance!18:09
rickspencer3also, thanks to ara for organizing the testing, but I guess she's not here18:09
rickspencer3ok, moving on18:10
rickspencer3any other business?18:10
* statik raises his hand18:10
rickspencer3statik, go ahea18:10
statikI have been working on merging erlang from debian. it's not a committed item, but i would like to get this updated before alpha218:10
statiki have run into a situation where it now has a new build-dep on fop, to build all the documentation18:11
statikso the choice i am facing is to diverge further from debian, or write up a handful of MIRs for fop and the 4/5 java libs it depends on that are still in universe18:11
statikfop, which depends on libsaxon-java, libxmlgraphics-commons-java, java-wrappers,libbatik-java (all still in universe)18:11
statikso, since MIRs would cause work for you guys, i was looking for some guidance18:11
seb128statik, seems rather an after meeting discussions18:12
seb128ie we can discuss it there18:12
statikseb128, ok cool. thanks!18:12
seb128but no need to hold everybody for that I think18:12
seb128rickspencer3, ^ what do you think?18:12
rickspencer3after meeting discussion18:12
rickspencer3but, let's make sure to help him out!18:12
rickspencer3any other other business?18:12
seb128I'm staying there after meeting to discuss that18:12
seb128not from me18:13
rickspencer3thanks seb12818:13
rickspencer3alright, then18:13
rickspencer3meeting adjourned ?18:13
* rickspencer3 taps gavel18:13
rickspencer3thanks all!18:13
seb128thanks rickspencer3, thanks everybody18:13
didrocksthanks everybody18:13
tremoluxthanks everybody18:13
rickspencer3maverick! maverick! maverick!18:13
didrockstremolux: can you grab again the branch, I have a fix I guess :)18:13
rickspencer3didrocks, great job on Unity, keep it going, I am very excited18:13
tremoluxdidrocks: sure will, thanks!18:13
didrocksthanks rickspencer3 :)18:13
seb128speaking of unity it might not be available today18:14
seb128soyuz seem to have some slowness issue since the launchpad upgrade18:14
seb128it's take a while to pick up some of the builds18:14
seb128(was just a side note)18:14
didrockswell, in any case, the settings to start it won't be, so no hurry for unity18:14
didrocksif people before the main MIR approval wants to install it, I can help them :)18:15
seb128statik, hey18:17
tremoluxdidrocks: woo!  that fixed it!  (OneConf)18:17
tremoluxdidrocks: thanks18:17
didrockstremolux: sweet, it seems you have package with no candidate :)18:17
didrockstremolux: thanks for testing, keep me posted :)18:18
tremoluxdidrocks: will do  :)18:18
seb128statik, still there?18:18
statikseb128, sorry stepped away for a minute.18:20
statiki'm still here18:20
seb128statik, ok18:20
seb128so how did you build your documentation before?18:20
statikseb128: it's complex, there is also a separate erlang-docs-html package but i believe the debian maintainer is working on combining these together18:21
statikseb128, just to provide some additional picture, our current ubuntu package is crippled because the wxWindows build-dep is cut out18:21
statikso erlang developers that use ubuntu get very annoyed that there is no debugger, things like that18:22
statikso i'm worried about also removing the docs on top of the current situation18:22
seb128you "believe the debian maintainer is working on combining these together"18:22
statikonce i can get this base version upgraded, i have a plan to split the source package so that erlang2 will have the packages like the debugger and things like that that can stay in universe18:22
seb128which means that's not an issue right now?18:22
statiki should not mention erlang-docs-html, it is a totally separate issue (despite the name)18:23
statikthe issue is just that merging from debian, the erlang source package has a new build-dep on fop, which is used to build the erlang-docs binary package (which is in universe)18:24
seb128how is it working in lucid?18:24
seb128you have no documentation?18:24
seb128or it's built an another way?18:24
statikseb128: looking at changelog I see this is because in lucid docs were in that separate erlang-doc-html package18:26
statikand now sergei has moved the docs into the main erlang source package18:26
statikso in lucid the docs were in a separate package18:27
statikthe crux of the problem seems to be how many things are in this one source package18:27
seb128it seems the debian maintainer or the upstream ones think it's easier to have things in sync with one source18:29
seb128well I see 3 options there18:29
statikyes, there are all kinds of problems with the separate package18:29
seb128- not building the documentation18:29
seb128- getting the build-depends promoted18:29
seb128- having a second erlang source in universe to build other binaries18:29
statikso my plan is to have a second source in universe anyway18:29
seb128you said you would do 3 anyway for the wx frontend etc?18:30
seb128ok, so make the documentation be built from this one?18:30
seb128I would go for that one if you have an erlang source in universe18:30
seb128otherwise the second choice would be to mir and maintain the things required for to build the documentation18:30
statikthat sounds like a good plan. so first step will be to just cut out the documentation, then add it in along with the wx related packages when I prepare and erlang2 for universe18:30
statikIf other projects were going to start using fop then it would have been worth it to do the MIR stuff18:31
statikbut it seems like the only realistic option is to split the source and deal with very painful merges from debian18:31
statikseb128, this has been a very helpful discussion, thanks!18:32
seb128statik, you're welcome18:32
statikseb128, I have upload rights for erlang but when I create erlang2 maybe I can ping you for sponsoring since we have discussed the plan for it?18:32
seb128statik, you might want to ask doko about fop18:32
seb128ok, sure18:32
seb128you don't want to name it erlang2 if that's the same source18:32
seb128rather "erlang-universe"18:33
statikoh, that would be better indeed18:33
statikmuch more descriptive18:33
seb128and make sure it doesn't build the binaries built by the main variant18:33
seb128just the extra ones18:33
statikright, that should be easy.18:34
* statik heads off to start hacking18:35
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
didrocksLaney: weird, depite your --enable-meego (as I've done in 1.6), you don't have any /usr/lib/banshee/meego-panel-banshe (pointed by meego desktop file) for the netbook interface, did you include it in a .install?20:32
didrocksLaney: ok, saw that you splitted in a meego-banshee package. So, I would expect usr/lib/banshee/meego-panel-banshee and meego-panel-banshee.desktop installed in it21:02
=== bjf is now known as bjf[]
rickspencer3+ Generate bindings for libgwibber for python: DONE22:18
dobeyE: ubuntuone-client source: version-substvar-for-external-package libsyncdaemon-1.0-dev -> libsyncdaemon-1.023:02
dobeylintian, you make no sense to me :(23:02
sorendobey: Look at lintian-info. It's your friend.23:05
dobeysoren: i think i know why it's complaining; i just think it's wrong :)23:05
dobeysoren: i'm trying to do a versioned depends on something that is Provides: by another package23:06
dobeyand it doesn't seem to like that :(23:06
sorenWe support versioned provides?23:06
sorenThat's new.23:06
sorendobey: I have a hard time coming up with a case where that lintian error would be wrong... What are you doing, exactly?23:07
dobeywell it didn't complain about the Provides: libsyncdaemon-1.0 (= ${source:Version})23:08
dobeyjust the dependency on it23:08
ajmitchwhy are you providing that & trying to depend on an exact version of it?23:10
geserif nothing didn't change Provides are unversioned23:44
dobeyajmitch: confusion. directed at substvars now, but getting a different error :-/23:53
lifelessRAOF: I want to pick your brain about nividia glx stuff, I think23:54
RAOFlifeless: Ok.  Want to do it in #ubuntu-x?23:57
rickspencer3RAOF, robert_ancell, TheMuso, can we start Eastern Edition a tad late?23:58
* rickspencer3 needs a cup of tea23:58
RAOFSure.  I'll get me a cuppa too!23:59
TheMusoTea is actually not a bad idea, at least here in this cold weather.23:59
robert_ancellseb128, up late?23:59

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