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bac | #startmeeting | 15:00 |
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MootBot | Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac. | 15:00 |
MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 15:00 |
bac | hi, welcome to the launchpad reviewers meeting. who is here? | 15:00 |
gary_poster | apres moi le deluge | 15:00 |
gmb | me | 15:00 |
noodles775 | bac: can I add to the agenda that jelmer graduates? | 15:00 |
mars | me! | 15:00 |
bigjools | me | 15:01 |
noodles775 | me | 15:01 |
sinzui | me | 15:01 |
deryck | me | 15:01 |
henninge | me | 15:01 |
abentley | me | 15:01 |
jtv | me | 15:01 |
bac | noodles775: i think that will fit nicely in the mentoring update! | 15:01 |
bac | EdwinGrubbs: ping | 15:02 |
EdwinGrubbs | me | 15:02 |
BjornT | me | 15:02 |
leonardr | me | 15:03 |
adeuring | me | 15:03 |
bac | well that looks quorum-ish, so let's start | 15:03 |
bac | [topic] agenda | 15:03 |
MootBot | New Topic: agenda | 15:03 |
bac | * Roll call | 15:03 |
bac | * Agenda | 15:03 |
bac | * Outstanding actions | 15:03 |
bac | * Mentoring update | 15:03 |
bac | * New topics | 15:03 |
bac | * make lint [deryck] | 15:03 |
bac | * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools] | 15:03 |
bac | * ec2 fix update. | 15:03 |
jelmer_ | me | 15:03 |
bac | [topic] outstanding actions | 15:03 |
MootBot | New Topic: outstanding actions | 15:03 |
bac | firstly, i'm lax and didn't even take up abentley's offer of assistance. will do so this week. :( | 15:04 |
bac | * bac and abentley to define new doctest policy regarding what is "testable documentation". | 15:04 |
bac | * sinzui to talk to QA about our QA tracking problem and create a proposal on the mailing list | 15:04 |
bac | sinzui: i didn't see this. was it sent? | 15:04 |
sinzui | That was co-opted by flacoste who was to have a talk with Urshina | 15:05 |
sinzui | I think we need to remove this task. | 15:05 |
sinzui | No I think we need to redefine it. I think we still have a problem | 15:05 |
bac | sinzui: ok. i'll remove it and follow up with francis | 15:05 |
bac | * Bjornt to set a policy on what can live in lib/lp, lib/services, and lib/coop | 15:06 |
BjornT | not done | 15:06 |
bac | BjornT: ok, roll to next week | 15:06 |
bac | * gary_poster and ursinha to email the list re: orphan branches policy and solution | 15:06 |
sinzui | because as RM I had two lists of items reporting QA state, and I do not think either was current at the time | 15:06 |
gary_poster | bac: I discussed that with interested parties instead. We ill send out email once work is done. | 15:06 |
gary_poster | we will | 15:06 |
bac | gary_poster: excellent. i'll consider it done then for this meeting | 15:07 |
gary_poster | cool thanks | 15:07 |
bac | new items | 15:07 |
bac | [topic] mentoring update | 15:07 |
MootBot | New Topic: mentoring update | 15:07 |
bac | noodles775, good news? | 15:07 |
noodles775 | Yup... Jelmer is (and has been for a while) very ready to graduate :) | 15:08 |
noodles775 | Congrats jelmer_ :) | 15:08 |
jelmer_ | noodles775: thanks! :-) | 15:08 |
jelmer_ | noodles775: ... and thanks for mentoring, it's much appreciated. | 15:08 |
bigjools | well done jelmer_ | 15:08 |
bac | excellent jelmer_. thanks for your work noodles775 | 15:08 |
deryck | congrats to jelmer_ ! | 15:08 |
gary_poster | yay :-) | 15:09 |
bac | jelmer_: please look at the schedule and pick a day that needs EU help | 15:09 |
bac | [topic] * make lint [deryck] | 15:09 |
MootBot | New Topic: * make lint [deryck] | 15:09 |
jelmer_ | bac: ok | 15:09 |
deryck | ok, so make lint has become increasingly noisy for me.... | 15:10 |
deryck | so much so that it is not so useful anymore. | 15:10 |
mwhudson | deryck: please remove pylint | 15:11 |
deryck | 1) can we fix it? I hear sinzui has ideas. and 2) are people reviewing for lint anymore? | 15:11 |
deryck | mwhudson, others suggested this, and I don't mind doing that. But I heard sinzui might have a better script altogether from what we have now. | 15:12 |
sinzui | 1) replace pyflakes with pep8 in a risky shell hack | 15:12 |
sinzui | 2) extract formater.py from my gdp project to be a standalone linter. It is 100% python, much faster than the shell tools, and it is more accurate | 15:13 |
bac | sinzui: how much effort is 2? | 15:14 |
sinzui | I have not put looked at it. probably doable in 6 hours | 15:14 |
deryck | If others are fine with those suggestions, I'm happy to take on a branch to do this, if sinzui will review it. :-) | 15:14 |
sinzui | We need to add pep8 to contrib in the tree | 15:14 |
bigjools | for those using vim, please use the pyflakes plugin, it's awesome: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2441 | 15:14 |
bac | sinzui: do you want to take that task, in your abundance of time? | 15:15 |
bac | bigjools: and the one for emacs rocks too! | 15:15 |
sinzui | I can look at it in 7 hours | 15:15 |
bac | sinzui: thanks. | 15:15 |
deryck | bigjools, bac -- I imagine this is how make lint became useless is we all have individual linters, but having a useful make lint is nice when reviewing. | 15:16 |
bac | [action] sinzui to work on extracting a new linter | 15:16 |
MootBot | ACTION received: sinzui to work on extracting a new linter | 15:16 |
bigjools | it needs to be accurate though, the noise we get now on the webservice declarations is incredible | 15:16 |
bac | deryck: i agree. when people include the lint output in their MPs it makes me happy. | 15:16 |
abentley | deryck, also the lp_review_body plugin will include it in the review body. | 15:16 |
sinzui | bigjools, my linter uses pyflakes, pep8 and builtin libs to provide s consistent report, I even designed the report to use GUI and command line output (makes testing easy) | 15:17 |
bigjools | nice | 15:17 |
bac | bigjools: but those webservice declarations are actually things we can fix to silence | 15:17 |
bac | [topic] * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools] | 15:17 |
MootBot | New Topic: * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools] | 15:17 |
bigjools | hai | 15:18 |
deryck | thanks for the discussion on lint, ya'll. :-) | 15:18 |
bigjools | so with the snafu on db performance this week and in particular the depwait-scanner, I converted it to use the slave store as much as possible | 15:18 |
bac | deryck: a real southerner knows how to spell y'all! | 15:18 |
deryck | dang. | 15:18 |
bigjools | you y'all is the plural | 15:18 |
bigjools | anyway | 15:18 |
deryck | real southerners can't spell | 15:19 |
bigjools | I used the information in lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/db-policy.txt | 15:19 |
bigjools | which is a veritable mine of useful info on slave databases | 15:19 |
bigjools | I encourage everyone to read it | 15:19 |
deryck | adeuring is about to convert bug search to use slaves. | 15:19 |
bigjools | the depwait scanner runs quite a bit quicker using the slaves | 15:19 |
jtv | Not to mention potential future scaling. | 15:20 |
bigjools | I'm also perusing the code for anything that hard-codes MAIN_STORE which is utterly gross | 15:20 |
bigjools | I suggest we all do the same | 15:20 |
jtv | bigjools: MAIN_STORE or MASTER_FLAVOR? | 15:20 |
bigjools | and maybe, just maybe LP will be that bit quicker | 15:20 |
jtv | Because MAIN_STORE usually makes sense to me. | 15:20 |
bigjools | I am using the adapter instead | 15:21 |
bigjools | IMasterStore(object) | 15:21 |
bigjools | the getUtility is gross | 15:21 |
abentley | (or even IStore(class)) | 15:21 |
bigjools | that doctest doesn't even mention it | 15:21 |
bigjools | the doctest also shows a cool with: syntax | 15:21 |
bigjools | anyway, read it guys | 15:22 |
bigjools | EOT | 15:22 |
bac | thanks bigjools | 15:22 |
bigjools | welcome | 15:22 |
bac | [topic] * ec2 fix update. | 15:22 |
MootBot | New Topic: * ec2 fix update. | 15:22 |
bac | so good news from mars on ec2. windmill tests are re-enabled. thanks mars. | 15:23 |
mars | bac, and bad news | 15:23 |
gary_poster | there's a bit of a snafu if you use a symlinked ec2 to test legacy branches, as I do. It will make for some very quick, erroneous successes. | 15:23 |
gary_poster | oh sorry | 15:23 |
mars | about to send out a warning to the list: you MUST merge devel into any branch you plan to run through ec2test for the next few hours | 15:24 |
mars | This mucks up db-devel ec2 runs - sorry, it will be fixed soon. | 15:24 |
mars | More details will be in the list mail I will send shortly. | 15:25 |
bac | thanks mars | 15:25 |
bac | [topic] move code out of c/l [thumper] | 15:25 |
MootBot | New Topic: move code out of c/l [thumper] | 15:25 |
bigjools | haha | 15:25 |
bac | in the asiapac meeting last week thumper brought up his desire to start getting more stuff out out canonical/launchpad | 15:26 |
bac | our big code re-org was started in march 2009...so it's been a long while that we've had stuff festering there | 15:26 |
bac | thoughts? | 15:27 |
gary_poster | Devil's advocate (gary_poster prepares for rotten tomatoes): | 15:27 |
gary_poster | Right now it seems like we have core bits like webapp in c/l | 15:27 |
gary_poster | and everything else elsewhere | 15:28 |
gary_poster | I fond things pretty easily | 15:28 |
gary_poster | um, find | 15:28 |
gary_poster | Is the cost of continuing the code reorg going to bring an appropriate level of benefit? | 15:28 |
* gary_poster goes and looks at c/l as he should have before opening his mouth | 15:29 | |
sinzui | gary_poster, oh. I have a branch that removes most of the glob imports and had to remove hacks to webapp imports | 15:29 |
jtv | Do we need a lib/lp/webapp? | 15:29 |
bigjools | lib/lp/core maybe | 15:29 |
sinzui | lp/services/webapp | 15:30 |
gmb | gary_poster, I think that mailnotification.py needs to be refactored into the separate applications so that it can be got rid of altogether. | 15:30 |
abentley | Yeah, webapp doesn't describe a lot of its contents well. | 15:30 |
gmb | But that might be a separate issue, thinking about it. | 15:30 |
sinzui | gary_poster, everyone. do not talk about moving these until you have also made plans to deal with shipit | 15:31 |
* sinzui cannot consider asking for a review of super import fix without first decoupling shipiy | 15:31 | |
* deryck cries "death to mailnotification.py!" | 15:31 | |
bac | part of thumper's annoyance was seeing *new* stuff appearing in c/l. | 15:31 |
gary_poster | is mailnotification.py really a reason to get rid of c/l? | 15:31 |
sinzui | 1. do not land in c/1, 2. if you must change work with something in it, move it first | 15:32 |
mars | bigjools, +1 on core | 15:32 |
abentley | gary_poster, lib/lp is a reason to get rid of lib/canonical/launchpad | 15:32 |
gary_poster | I don't like that. | 15:32 |
bac | gary_poster: which that? | 15:33 |
gary_poster | what sinzui proposed | 15:33 |
gary_poster | abentley, but what's the benefit? | 15:33 |
deryck | gary_poster, no, that file should be dismantled anyway. regardless of what happens to lib/canonical | 15:33 |
gary_poster | right now, this is what I see: | 15:33 |
gary_poster | (agreed, deryck) | 15:33 |
abentley | gary_poster, consistency. Not having two names for something. | 15:33 |
gary_poster | lp has lots of bits that are specific to the core apps | 15:34 |
abentley | gary_poster, I would have been fine with keeping canonical/launchpad, but since we have come this far, we should finish the renaming. | 15:34 |
gary_poster | l/c has stuff that...foundations touches. | 15:34 |
gary_poster | abentley: fair enough, I see your perspective. I don't buy that the cost is worthwhile. I don't buy that sinzui's approach alone is going to get us anywhere except more separation for what foundations touches | 15:35 |
gary_poster | But this is a vote sort of thing | 15:36 |
bac | gary_poster: indeed | 15:36 |
gary_poster | So, I said my piece :-) | 15:36 |
mars | gary_poster, I'm +1 on refactoring. There are no less than six places that the test infrastructure is set up - refactoring at least straightens stuff out: if you find something, you will try to move it to a better place | 15:36 |
sinzui | gary_poster, it does not get us far because most engineers are not comfortable refactoring the code, and I believe they fear that they do not have permission or time do dtrt | 15:36 |
bac | [vote] We should move towards dismantling canonical/launchpad into more appropriate spots within lib/lp. | 15:37 |
MootBot | Please vote on: We should move towards dismantling canonical/launchpad into more appropriate spots within lib/lp.. | 15:37 |
MootBot | Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot | 15:37 |
MootBot | E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting | 15:37 |
abentley | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from abentley. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 | 15:37 |
mars | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from mars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 | 15:37 |
gary_poster | -1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | -1 received from gary_poster. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 | 15:37 |
adeuring | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from adeuring. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 | 15:37 |
gmb | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from gmb. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 | 15:37 |
bigjools | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from bigjools. 5 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 | 15:37 |
bac | +1 | 15:37 |
MootBot | +1 received from bac. 6 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 | 15:37 |
sinzui | The easy work was done. Most of the remaining code does not have an obvious place. We often need to know the tree names to do a rename, ans we do not know them for these service-like code | 15:37 |
henninge | +1 | 15:38 |
MootBot | +1 received from henninge. 7 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 | 15:38 |
gary_poster | That's probably enough, isn't it :-) | 15:38 |
sinzui | +1 | 15:38 |
MootBot | +1 received from sinzui. 8 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7 | 15:38 |
bac | voting ends in 10 seconds | 15:38 |
jelmer_ | +1 | 15:38 |
MootBot | +1 received from jelmer_. 9 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8 | 15:38 |
bac | [endvote] | 15:38 |
MootBot | Final result is 9 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8 | 15:38 |
bigjools | lol | 15:38 |
gary_poster | :-) fair enough | 15:38 |
sinzui | I saw pagetitles.py was updated for shipit yesterday. we do not support page titles, but shipit and some pages are still using the dead code | 15:39 |
bigjools | easy for every who's *not* doing the work to +1 that :) | 15:39 |
bac | the results won't be official until the new zealand and colorado precincts report | 15:39 |
bigjools | everyone* | 15:39 |
sinzui | Who is fixing shipit? | 15:39 |
gary_poster | heh | 15:39 |
bac | bigjools: yeah, signaling our intent is easy. doing the work is harder. | 15:40 |
gary_poster | (well, I'm not going to be keen on scheduling foundations to do much of that to be honest, except as part of other refactoring, as sinzui said.) | 15:40 |
bac | gary_poster: i think that is appropriate. | 15:40 |
gary_poster | cool | 15:40 |
bac | [topic] peanut gallery | 15:40 |
MootBot | New Topic: peanut gallery | 15:40 |
sinzui | I will post an email about names. The migrater script can move most of the chunks of code if we have names for them. | 15:40 |
bac | any other topics in the remaining 4 minutes? | 15:41 |
jelmer_ | actually, I was wondering if anybody had any good suggestions for my regular review day | 15:41 |
deryck | no one was around this morning when I needed a review. :-) | 15:41 |
jelmer_ | I'm on thursdays together with noodles775 at the moment but according to the schedule we already have one person for each weekday in europe | 15:41 |
bac | jelmer_: it looks up to you. every day has EU coverage | 15:42 |
bigjools | Friday - it's the best day; Just ask sinzui | 15:42 |
deryck | unless pqm is closing that day ;) | 15:42 |
bigjools | shhh | 15:42 |
deryck | heh | 15:42 |
jelmer_ | :-) | 15:42 |
henninge | jelmer_: I think you could support jtv because he is not really in EU timezone | 15:43 |
jtv | Isn't allenap in the proper EU slot? | 15:43 |
bac | good suggestion, henninge | 15:43 |
sinzui | I give out RCs before PQM closes. I think you do want to ask me for the review in that case | 15:43 |
bac | jtv: allenap is on rotation | 15:43 |
jtv | facepalm | 15:43 |
jtv | of course | 15:43 |
bac | thanks for coming everyone and for the good discussion | 15:43 |
bac | #endmeeting | 15:44 |
MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:44. | 15:44 |
jtv | thanks bac | 15:44 |
deryck | thanks bac | 15:44 |
jelmer_ | thanks bac | 15:44 |
noodles775 | Cheers | 15:44 |
gary_poster | thank you | 15:45 |
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bac | hi rockstar, thumper. is this a good time? | 22:32 |
rockstar | bac, sorry, still on the standup. thumper is long winded... :) | 22:34 |
bac | rockstar: ping me when he runs out of steam | 22:35 |
rockstar | bac, it could be a while... :) | 22:35 |
bac | i've nowhere to go... | 22:35 |
thumper | bac: standup finished now | 22:39 |
bac | cool | 22:39 |
bac | Let's start the NZ-CO-NC reviewers meeting | 22:40 |
* rockstar | 22:40 | |
bac | you don't say? | 22:41 |
bac | so we had a lively meeting this morning | 22:41 |
bac | no one actually got to any of the outstanding actions. i think i should remind people on mondays but i never get around to it... | 22:41 |
bac | deryck whinged about 'make lint' spewing way too much junk to be useful. | 22:42 |
bac | sinzui has a plan to replace pyflakes with a tool he's written. claims it is much more accurate and faster. | 22:43 |
bac | not sure when he'll get to it. | 22:43 |
rockstar | bac, I think pyflakes is okay, it's pylint that's annoying. | 22:43 |
rockstar | bac, a few times I've been close to just changing the Makefile to kill the pylint call and asking forgiveness later. | 22:43 |
bac | it is possible i got those two confused | 22:43 |
bac | anyway the plan is for sinzui to swap out the crap one with something better. | 22:44 |
wgrant | I love pyflakes, but pylint is more an exercise in adding ignores than anything else. | 22:44 |
bac | and then we all buy him beer | 22:44 |
rockstar | bac, many of us run pyflakes in $EDITOR and it works pretty quickly. | 22:44 |
bac | rockstar: right. i do in emacs. bigjools pointed out the vim plug in. | 22:45 |
bac | (and no flame war erupted) | 22:45 |
sinzui | I run pyflakes, pep8 in my editor + real xml parsing the checks entities | 22:45 |
rockstar | sinzui, aren't you using gedit? | 22:45 |
bac | bigjools also brought up the huge gains he got by converting some code to use the slave store. | 22:45 |
sinzui | yes | 22:45 |
* rockstar shudders | 22:45 | |
sinzui | I wrote the plugin | 22:45 |
bac | he suggested lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/db-policy.txt should be required reading for all of us. | 22:46 |
bac | mars talked a bit about his fixes to ec2 and mentioned some short-term pain wrt db-devel | 22:47 |
bac | but the good news is it looks like he's got a handle on getting it to be more reliable and that makes me very happy. | 22:47 |
bac | and then i brought up thumper's concern from last time about moving stuff out of canonical/launchpad | 22:48 |
bac | we had a good discussion where gary questioned whether it was worth the effort. | 22:48 |
bac | everyone else thought it was worthwhile. but it will remain as a techdebt issue to be handled as we have time. | 22:49 |
thumper | I think it is worth the effort :) | 22:49 |
bac | yeah, i figured it would get one or two votes here | 22:49 |
bac | oh and the other good news was that jelmer has graduated as a reviewer. | 22:50 |
bac | did everyone see flacoste's email suggesting a 'text' review type for mrevell to look at textual changes? sounds like a good plan to me. | 22:51 |
bac | that's about it from the AMEU meeting. | 22:52 |
bac | either of you have new topics? | 22:52 |
bac | going once | 22:53 |
thumper | no | 22:53 |
bac | ok. well i guess that's it then. | 22:53 |
thumper | thanks bac | 22:54 |
bac | i'll see you later. | 22:54 |
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