/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/06/09/#launchpad-meeting.txt

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bac#startmeeting15:00
MootBotMeeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
bachi, welcome to the launchpad reviewers meeting.  who is here?15:00
gary_posterapres moi le deluge15:00
gmbme15:00
noodles775bac: can I add to the agenda that jelmer graduates?15:00
marsme!15:00
bigjoolsme15:01
noodles775me15:01
sinzuime15:01
deryckme15:01
henningeme15:01
abentleyme15:01
jtvme15:01
bacnoodles775: i think that will fit nicely in the mentoring update!15:01
bacEdwinGrubbs: ping15:02
EdwinGrubbsme15:02
BjornTme15:02
leonardrme15:03
adeuringme15:03
bacwell that looks quorum-ish, so let's start15:03
bac[topic] agenda15:03
MootBotNew Topic:  agenda15:03
bac * Roll call15:03
bac * Agenda15:03
bac * Outstanding actions15:03
bac * Mentoring update15:03
bac * New topics15:03
bac   * make lint [deryck]15:03
bac   * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools]15:03
bac   * ec2 fix update.15:03
jelmer_me15:03
bac[topic] outstanding actions15:03
MootBotNew Topic:  outstanding actions15:03
bacfirstly, i'm lax and didn't even take up abentley's offer of assistance.  will do so this week.  :(15:04
bac * bac and abentley  to define new doctest policy regarding what is "testable documentation".15:04
bac * sinzui to talk to QA about our QA tracking problem and create a proposal on the mailing list15:04
bacsinzui: i didn't see this.  was it sent?15:04
sinzuiThat was co-opted by flacoste who was to have a talk with Urshina15:05
sinzuiI think we need to remove this task.15:05
sinzuiNo I think we need to redefine it. I think we still have a problem15:05
bacsinzui: ok.  i'll remove it and follow up with francis15:05
bac* Bjornt to set a policy on what can live in lib/lp, lib/services, and lib/coop15:06
BjornTnot done15:06
bacBjornT: ok, roll to next week15:06
bac * gary_poster and ursinha to email the list re: orphan branches policy and solution15:06
sinzuibecause as RM I had two lists of items reporting QA state, and I do not think either was current at the time15:06
gary_posterbac: I discussed that with interested parties instead.  We ill send out email once work is done.15:06
gary_posterwe will15:06
bacgary_poster: excellent.  i'll consider it done then for this meeting15:07
gary_postercool thanks15:07
bacnew items15:07
bac[topic] mentoring update15:07
MootBotNew Topic:  mentoring update15:07
bacnoodles775, good news?15:07
noodles775Yup... Jelmer is (and has been for a while) very ready to graduate :)15:08
noodles775Congrats jelmer_ :)15:08
jelmer_noodles775: thanks! :-)15:08
jelmer_noodles775: ... and thanks for mentoring, it's much appreciated.15:08
bigjoolswell done jelmer_15:08
bacexcellent jelmer_.  thanks for your work noodles77515:08
deryckcongrats to jelmer_ !15:08
gary_posteryay :-)15:09
bacjelmer_: please look at the schedule and pick a day that needs EU help15:09
bac[topic] * make lint [deryck]15:09
MootBotNew Topic:  * make lint [deryck]15:09
jelmer_bac: ok15:09
deryckok, so make lint has become increasingly noisy for me....15:10
deryckso much so that it is not so useful anymore.15:10
mwhudsonderyck: please remove pylint15:11
deryck1) can we fix it?  I hear sinzui has ideas.  and 2) are people reviewing for lint anymore?15:11
deryckmwhudson, others suggested this, and I don't mind doing that.  But I heard sinzui might have a better script altogether from what we have now.15:12
sinzui1) replace pyflakes with pep8 in a risky shell hack15:12
sinzui2) extract formater.py from my gdp project to be a standalone linter. It is 100% python, much faster than the shell tools, and it is more accurate15:13
bacsinzui: how much effort is 2?15:14
sinzuiI have not put looked at it. probably doable in 6 hours15:14
deryckIf others are fine with those suggestions, I'm happy to take on a branch to do this, if sinzui will review it. :-)15:14
sinzuiWe need to add pep8 to contrib in the tree15:14
bigjoolsfor those using vim, please use the pyflakes plugin, it's awesome: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=244115:14
bacsinzui: do you want to take that task, in your abundance of time?15:15
bacbigjools: and the one for emacs rocks too!15:15
sinzuiI can look at it in 7 hours15:15
bacsinzui: thanks.15:15
deryckbigjools, bac -- I imagine this is how make lint became useless is we all have individual linters, but having a useful make lint is nice when reviewing.15:16
bac[action] sinzui to work on extracting a new linter15:16
MootBotACTION received:  sinzui to work on extracting a new linter15:16
bigjoolsit needs to be accurate though, the noise we get now on the webservice declarations is incredible15:16
bacderyck: i agree.  when people include the lint output in their MPs it makes me happy.15:16
abentleyderyck, also the lp_review_body plugin will include it in the review body.15:16
sinzuibigjools, my linter uses pyflakes, pep8 and builtin libs to provide s consistent report, I even designed the report to use GUI and command line output (makes testing easy)15:17
bigjoolsnice15:17
bacbigjools: but those webservice declarations are actually things we can fix to silence15:17
bac[topic] * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools]15:17
MootBotNew Topic:  * Using slave stores to speed up your code [bigjools]15:17
bigjoolshai15:18
deryckthanks for the discussion on lint, ya'll. :-)15:18
bigjoolsso with the snafu on db performance this week and in particular the depwait-scanner, I converted it to use the slave store as much as possible15:18
bacderyck: a real southerner knows how to spell y'all!15:18
deryckdang.15:18
bigjoolsyou y'all is the plural15:18
bigjoolsanyway15:18
deryckreal southerners can't spell15:19
bigjoolsI used the information in lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/db-policy.txt15:19
bigjoolswhich is a veritable mine of useful info on slave databases15:19
bigjoolsI encourage everyone to read it15:19
deryckadeuring is about to convert bug search to use slaves.15:19
bigjoolsthe depwait scanner runs quite a bit quicker using the slaves15:19
jtvNot to mention potential future scaling.15:20
bigjoolsI'm also perusing the code for anything that hard-codes MAIN_STORE which is utterly gross15:20
bigjoolsI suggest we all do the same15:20
jtvbigjools: MAIN_STORE or MASTER_FLAVOR?15:20
bigjoolsand maybe, just maybe LP will be that bit quicker15:20
jtvBecause MAIN_STORE usually makes sense to me.15:20
bigjoolsI am using the adapter instead15:21
bigjoolsIMasterStore(object)15:21
bigjoolsthe getUtility is gross15:21
abentley(or even IStore(class))15:21
bigjoolsthat doctest doesn't even mention it15:21
bigjoolsthe doctest also shows a cool with: syntax15:21
bigjoolsanyway, read it guys15:22
bigjoolsEOT15:22
bacthanks bigjools15:22
bigjoolswelcome15:22
bac[topic] * ec2 fix update.15:22
MootBotNew Topic:  * ec2 fix update.15:22
bacso good news from mars on ec2.  windmill tests are re-enabled.  thanks mars.15:23
marsbac, and bad news15:23
gary_posterthere's a bit of a snafu if you use a symlinked ec2 to test legacy branches, as I do.  It will make for some very quick, erroneous successes.15:23
gary_posteroh sorry15:23
marsabout to send out a warning to the list: you MUST merge devel into any branch you plan to run through ec2test for the next few hours15:24
marsThis mucks up db-devel ec2 runs - sorry, it will be fixed soon.15:24
marsMore details will be in the list mail I will send shortly.15:25
bacthanks mars15:25
bac[topic]  move code out of c/l [thumper]15:25
MootBotNew Topic:   move code out of c/l [thumper]15:25
bigjoolshaha15:25
bacin the asiapac meeting last week thumper brought up his desire to start getting more stuff out out canonical/launchpad15:26
bacour big code re-org was started in march 2009...so it's been a long while that we've had stuff festering there15:26
bacthoughts?15:27
gary_posterDevil's advocate (gary_poster prepares for rotten tomatoes):15:27
gary_posterRight now it seems like we have core bits like webapp in c/l15:27
gary_posterand everything else elsewhere15:28
gary_posterI fond things pretty easily15:28
gary_posterum, find15:28
gary_posterIs the cost of continuing the code reorg going to bring an appropriate level of benefit?15:28
* gary_poster goes and looks at c/l as he should have before opening his mouth15:29
sinzuigary_poster, oh. I have a branch that removes most of the glob imports and had to remove hacks to webapp imports15:29
jtvDo we need a lib/lp/webapp?15:29
bigjoolslib/lp/core maybe15:29
sinzuilp/services/webapp15:30
gmbgary_poster, I think that mailnotification.py needs to be refactored into the separate applications so that it can be got rid of altogether.15:30
abentleyYeah, webapp doesn't describe a lot of its contents well.15:30
gmbBut that might be a separate issue, thinking about it.15:30
sinzuigary_poster, everyone. do not talk about moving these until you have also made plans to deal with shipit15:31
* sinzui cannot consider asking for a review of super import fix without first decoupling shipiy15:31
* deryck cries "death to mailnotification.py!"15:31
bacpart of thumper's annoyance was seeing *new* stuff appearing in c/l.15:31
gary_posteris mailnotification.py really a reason to get rid of c/l?15:31
sinzui1. do not land in c/1, 2. if you must change work with something in it, move it first15:32
marsbigjools, +1 on core15:32
abentleygary_poster, lib/lp is a reason to get rid of lib/canonical/launchpad15:32
gary_posterI don't like that.15:32
bacgary_poster: which that?15:33
gary_posterwhat sinzui proposed15:33
gary_posterabentley, but what's the benefit?15:33
deryckgary_poster, no, that file should be dismantled anyway.  regardless of what happens to lib/canonical15:33
gary_posterright now, this is what I see:15:33
gary_poster(agreed, deryck)15:33
abentleygary_poster, consistency.  Not having two names for something.15:33
gary_posterlp has lots of bits that are specific to the core apps15:34
abentleygary_poster, I would have been fine with keeping canonical/launchpad, but since we have come this far, we should finish the renaming.15:34
gary_posterl/c has stuff that...foundations touches.15:34
gary_posterabentley: fair enough, I see your perspective.  I don't buy that the cost is worthwhile.  I don't buy that sinzui's approach alone is going to get us anywhere except more separation for what foundations touches15:35
gary_posterBut this is a vote sort of thing15:36
bacgary_poster: indeed15:36
gary_posterSo, I said my piece :-)15:36
marsgary_poster, I'm +1 on refactoring.  There are no less than six places that the test infrastructure is set up - refactoring at least straightens stuff out: if you find something, you will try to move it to a better place15:36
sinzuigary_poster, it does not get us far because most engineers are not comfortable refactoring the code, and I believe they fear that they do not have permission or time do dtrt15:36
bac[vote] We should move towards dismantling canonical/launchpad into more appropriate spots within lib/lp.15:37
MootBotPlease vote on:  We should move towards dismantling canonical/launchpad into more appropriate spots within lib/lp..15:37
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:37
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting15:37
abentley+115:37
MootBot+1 received from abentley. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 115:37
mars+115:37
MootBot+1 received from mars. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 215:37
gary_poster-115:37
MootBot-1 received from gary_poster. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 115:37
adeuring+115:37
MootBot+1 received from adeuring. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 215:37
gmb+115:37
MootBot+1 received from gmb. 4 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 315:37
bigjools+115:37
MootBot+1 received from bigjools. 5 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 415:37
bac+115:37
MootBot+1 received from bac. 6 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 515:37
sinzuiThe easy work was done. Most of the remaining code does not have an obvious place. We often need to know the tree names to do a rename, ans we do not know them for these service-like code15:37
henninge+115:38
MootBot+1 received from henninge. 7 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 615:38
gary_posterThat's probably enough, isn't it :-)15:38
sinzui+115:38
MootBot+1 received from sinzui. 8 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 715:38
bacvoting ends in 10 seconds15:38
jelmer_+115:38
MootBot+1 received from jelmer_. 9 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 815:38
bac[endvote]15:38
MootBotFinal result is 9 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: 815:38
bigjoolslol15:38
gary_poster:-) fair enough15:38
sinzuiI saw pagetitles.py was updated for shipit yesterday. we do not support page titles, but shipit and some pages are still using the dead code15:39
bigjoolseasy for every who's *not* doing the work to +1 that :)15:39
bacthe results won't be official until the new zealand and colorado precincts report15:39
bigjoolseveryone*15:39
sinzuiWho is fixing shipit?15:39
gary_posterheh15:39
bacbigjools: yeah, signaling our intent is easy.  doing the work is harder.15:40
gary_poster(well, I'm not going to be keen on scheduling foundations to do much of that to be honest, except as part of other refactoring, as sinzui said.)15:40
bacgary_poster: i think that is appropriate.15:40
gary_postercool15:40
bac[topic] peanut gallery15:40
MootBotNew Topic:  peanut gallery15:40
sinzuiI will post an email about names. The migrater script can move most of the chunks of code if we have names for them.15:40
bacany  other topics in the remaining 4 minutes?15:41
jelmer_actually, I was wondering if anybody had any good suggestions for my regular review day15:41
deryckno one was around this morning when I needed a review. :-)15:41
jelmer_I'm on thursdays together with noodles775 at the moment but according to the schedule we already have one person for each weekday in europe15:41
bacjelmer_: it looks up to you.  every day has EU coverage15:42
bigjoolsFriday - it's the best day;  Just ask sinzui15:42
deryckunless pqm is closing that day ;)15:42
bigjoolsshhh15:42
deryckheh15:42
jelmer_:-)15:42
henningejelmer_: I think you could support jtv because he is not really in EU timezone15:43
jtvIsn't allenap in the proper EU slot?15:43
bacgood suggestion, henninge15:43
sinzuiI give out RCs before PQM closes. I think you do want to ask me for the review in that case15:43
bacjtv: allenap is on rotation15:43
jtvfacepalm15:43
jtvof course15:43
bacthanks for coming everyone and for the good discussion15:43
bac#endmeeting15:44
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:44.15:44
jtvthanks bac15:44
deryckthanks bac15:44
jelmer_thanks bac15:44
noodles775Cheers15:44
gary_posterthank you15:45
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bachi rockstar, thumper.  is this a good time?22:32
rockstarbac, sorry, still on the standup.  thumper is long winded...  :)22:34
bacrockstar: ping me when he runs out of steam22:35
rockstarbac, it could be a while...  :)22:35
baci've nowhere to go...22:35
thumperbac: standup finished now22:39
baccool22:39
bacLet's start the NZ-CO-NC reviewers meeting22:40
* rockstar 22:40
bacyou don't say?22:41
bacso we had a lively meeting this morning22:41
bacno one actually got to any of the outstanding actions.  i think i should remind people on mondays but i never get around to it...22:41
bacderyck whinged about 'make lint' spewing way too much junk to be useful.22:42
bacsinzui has a plan to replace pyflakes with a tool he's written.  claims it is much more accurate and faster.22:43
bacnot sure when he'll get to it.22:43
rockstarbac, I think pyflakes is okay, it's pylint that's annoying.22:43
rockstarbac, a few times I've been close to just changing the Makefile to kill the pylint call and asking forgiveness later.22:43
bacit is possible i got those two confused22:43
bacanyway the plan is for sinzui to swap out the crap one with something better.22:44
wgrantI love pyflakes, but pylint is more an exercise in adding ignores than anything else.22:44
bacand then we all buy him beer22:44
rockstarbac, many of us run pyflakes in $EDITOR and it works pretty quickly.22:44
bacrockstar: right.  i do in emacs.  bigjools pointed out the vim plug in.22:45
bac(and no flame war erupted)22:45
sinzuiI run pyflakes, pep8 in my editor + real xml parsing the checks entities22:45
rockstarsinzui, aren't you using gedit?22:45
bacbigjools also brought up the huge gains he got by converting some code to use the slave store.22:45
sinzuiyes22:45
* rockstar shudders22:45
sinzuiI wrote the plugin22:45
bache suggested lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/db-policy.txt should be required reading for all of us.22:46
bacmars talked a bit about his fixes to ec2 and mentioned some short-term pain wrt db-devel22:47
bacbut the good news is it looks like he's got a handle on getting it to be more reliable and that makes me very happy.22:47
bacand then i brought up thumper's concern from last time about moving stuff out of canonical/launchpad22:48
bacwe had a good discussion where gary questioned whether it was worth the effort.22:48
baceveryone else thought it was worthwhile.  but it will remain as a techdebt issue to be handled as we have time.22:49
thumperI think it is worth the effort :)22:49
bacyeah, i figured it would get one or two votes here22:49
bacoh and the other good news was that jelmer has graduated as a reviewer.22:50
bacdid everyone see flacoste's email suggesting a 'text' review type for mrevell to look at textual changes?  sounds like a good plan to me.22:51
bacthat's about it from the AMEU meeting.22:52
baceither of you have new topics?22:52
bacgoing once22:53
thumperno22:53
bacok.  well i guess that's it then.22:53
thumperthanks bac22:54
baci'll see you later.22:54

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