| Takyoji | Anyone used PyGTK at all? | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| jchristensen | Anyone read Jono's Book, "The Art of Community"? | 01:17 |
| Takyoji | I've been curious of it previously, but haven't read it | 01:18 |
| jchristensen | Its quite good, been reading it this past week | 01:18 |
| Takyoji | ahh | 01:18 |
| tonyyarusso | I thought about picking up a copy, but haven't so far. | 01:20 |
| jchristensen | Has been a very interesting read, I'd like to get more active in the community | 01:22 |
| Takyoji | It's also available freely as a PDF as well, correct? | 01:23 |
| jchristensen | I'm not sure | 01:23 |
| Takyoji | http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/downloads/jonobacon-theartofcommunity-1ed.pdf | 01:23 |
| jchristensen | Good to know. Already purchased it, I'll help support Jono, and save on the eye strain | 01:26 |
| Takyoji | heh yea | 01:33 |
| kermit | where should one start looking for a linux job? also if anyone could send me their resume for examples i'd appreciate it. | 14:24 |
| Takyoji | I'd also be curious as well | 15:43 |
| ripps | From my experience, if you want to have a job where Linux is the primary focus, you'll probably need to be a serious coder, either that, or a server admim. But employers don't know what to make of linux. It's best to have some more generic degrees, certifications, and job experience. | 15:51 |
| ripps | Unless, of course, your trying to join an established linux company like redhat or canonical. Either way, you'll probably need some mad coding skills to get hired | 15:52 |
| kermit | i've been using linux since 1996 and have been coding since 1983 | 16:14 |
| kermit | the reason that i dont know the first thing about finding a linux job is that i've never had to try before :/ | 16:14 |
| rlaager | kermit: In what area of the state are you looking for a job? | 18:57 |
| tonyyarusso | kermit: Of my jobs where I used Linux, here's how I got them: | 19:07 |
| tonyyarusso | 1) New the guy from previously being co-workers at Erik's Bike Shop | 19:07 |
| tonyyarusso | 2) Stood out as a student who knew my way around Linux at Saint Paul College, hired first as student help then regular staff | 19:08 |
| tonyyarusso | 3) Craigslist | 19:08 |
| tonyyarusso | Dice.com is good for both help-desk monkeys and senior admins, but not much in between currently. | 19:08 |
| tonyyarusso | Remind me about the resume in the evening. | 19:09 |
| tonyyarusso | For what those jobs were, 1) random technical help, low-key server admin, 2) combination server admin & workstation support, 3) Linux-based virtual appliance development, testing, documentation, & support | 19:10 |
| tonyyarusso | 1) Now-defunct web-dev firm, 2) Saint Paul College Computing Careers Department, 3) Nagios, Inc. (current) | 19:12 |
| kermit | rlaager: minneapolis | 19:26 |
| kermit | tonyyarusso: thanks! | 19:26 |
| tonyyarusso | wow, *Knew on that first one | 19:27 |
| kermit | gnu! | 19:27 |
| kermit | oh all FOSS ppl should start saynig gnu for new/knew | 19:30 |
| Obsidian1723 | I GNU that | 19:30 |
| kermit | i think i will, maybe it'll start a movement | 19:30 |
| tonyyarusso | heh | 20:06 |
| Takyoji | ITT Technical college sounds just a little Windows-centric | 20:08 |
| Takyoji | based upon my visit today | 20:09 |
| tonyyarusso | Doesn't surprise me. | 20:09 |
| Takyoji | Linux is available as an aside practically. | 20:09 |
| tonyyarusso | Saint Paul College and Hennepin Tech both had some decent Linux stuff, although I don't know if I'd go as far as Linux-centric. Probably fairly even-handed. | 20:09 |
| Takyoji | I'd rather do something platform-agnostic and about the actual concepts rather than "You double click this, click this tab, click this button (...)" | 20:10 |
| tonyyarusso | Metro State uses Linux for some courses too. | 20:10 |
| tonyyarusso | oh, yeah, no | 20:10 |
| Takyoji | ahh | 20:10 |
| tonyyarusso | Saint Paul College has "Operating System Fundamentals" (courses I and II), which use Linux because they can demonstrate the point more in-depth. | 20:11 |
| Takyoji | My only issue for the "better" colleges would be acceptance, since I'm not Mr. 4.0 GPA or anything of that nature. | 20:11 |
| Takyoji | And I haven't taken the ACT/SAT | 20:12 |
| Takyoji | Is it common for colleges to let you just take the test for a class and receive credit (if you obviously pass) without having to pay for that course, or? | 20:13 |
| tonyyarusso | What "better" colleges offer anything resembling tech courses? | 20:13 |
| tonyyarusso | Unless you wanted to go for an actual CompSci degree I guess - UMN & St. Olaf both have good stuff for that. | 20:14 |
| tonyyarusso | No. If you're lucky they might let you take the test and not have to attend, but you'd still have to pay regardless. | 20:14 |
| Takyoji | Well generally speaking, colleges that have strict acceptance requirements are probably the ones I wouldn't be able to get into, is just one limiting factor for me in general. | 20:15 |
| Takyoji | For ITT they implied I'd be able to take a test for a course and actually wouldn't have to pay for that course (if I didn't need to go through it) | 20:15 |
| tonyyarusso | So, St. Olaf is out. Everything else mentioned is in. UMN would probably make you take the ACT or SAT first. | 20:16 |
| tonyyarusso | h00k: Teach me about debhelper :P | 20:17 |
| Takyoji | Though I presume U of M is an arm and a leg. | 20:17 |
| Takyoji | (in cost) | 20:17 |
| tonyyarusso | Not compared to the "better" schools. Compared to the community colleges yes. | 20:18 |
| tonyyarusso | 2009-10 tuition and fees for new students (based on two semesters of full-time enrollment) | 20:19 |
| tonyyarusso | Minnesota residents - $11,542 | 20:19 |
| Takyoji | and for U of M, I'd pretty much need full dedication towards it, or would be able to have a job at the same time? | 20:20 |
| h00k | tonyyarusso: uuuum | 20:20 |
| h00k | debhelper, I bet ripps would know. | 20:20 |
| tonyyarusso | For comparison, St. John's University: | 20:20 |
| tonyyarusso | For the 2010-2011 academic year: | 20:20 |
| tonyyarusso | * Tuition and fees: $31,576 | 20:20 |
| tonyyarusso | h00k: true | 20:21 |
| * tonyyarusso pokes the absent ripps | 20:21 | |
| h00k | I don't know enough to be able to help you :( | 20:21 |
| Takyoji | I think you can ask for a mentor with using debhelper and so on | 20:21 |
| h00k | tonyyarusso: or..Amaranth I bet would know | 20:21 |
| tonyyarusso | yeah, but -motu is pretty dead atm | 20:21 |
| Takyoji | over the MOTU mailing list I believe | 20:21 |
| Takyoji | ahh | 20:21 |
| h00k | tonyyarusso: Amaranth poked his head in before in -offtopic | 20:22 |
| Takyoji | then resurrect them. :P | 20:22 |
| * Takyoji plays Gish | 20:25 | |
| Takyoji | Perhaps we could have a meeting or something via IRC or something for those curious of doing deb packaging | 20:32 |
| tonyyarusso | That'd be good, yes. Michigan does that a lot. | 20:34 |
| Takyoji | and could also work on accommodating learning materials/printouts | 20:34 |
| Obsidian1723 | http://www.ucalgary.ca/news/may2010/typhoid read it and the white paper at the bottom. | 21:14 |
| kermit | i've been rather unsuccesfully self-employed for a long time, i'm having a hard time with this "employment history" part of my resume.. i have skills, i just don't know how to make anyone believe that i do. | 21:27 |
| kermit | how do you get past HR to the techies who can guage your skills on their own merits? | 21:30 |
| h00k | magics | 21:31 |
| kermit | maybe targetting smaller businesses who don't have an HR department.. | 21:32 |
| Obsidian1723 | kermit, thats where certs are handy.. HR rou8nd files many who dont have X Y and Z | 21:36 |
| Obsidian1723 | certs alone, like experience alone, arent valid. | 21:37 |
| Obsidian1723 | You need both. | 21:37 |
| Obsidian1723 | For certs, in this economy, there are MANY unemployeed MCSE, CCNA, etc, so for for something like the RHCE, Security+, Linux+, Juniper certs, Ethical Hacker Cert, etc. | 21:37 |
| kermit | Obsidian1723: rou8nd? | 21:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | A lot of it too is how your resume reads | 21:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | - 8 typo | 21:38 |
| kermit | "round"? | 21:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | I can look at your resume if you want, finese it out a bit. | 21:38 |
| kermit | i thought i'd always be self employeed, i have no certs | 21:38 |
| kermit | you're already on the list to send it to, when i finish writing it :) | 21:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | Yeah, Ive been at it 32 years, never got "The Papers" until now. | 21:38 |
| kermit | and, thanks | 21:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | You have my email? | 21:39 |
| kermit | no | 21:39 |
| Obsidian1723 | rezphreak@hotmail.com | 21:39 |
| kermit | I had $500k just 3 years ago, this economy wiped me out faster than I could react. | 21:39 |
| kermit | i guess i'm a better coder than investor | 21:39 |
| Takyoji | Didn't know there was something called "Ethical Hacker Certification" | 21:42 |
| kermit | haha | 21:42 |
| Obsidian1723 | what are your areas of expertise? | 21:46 |
| Obsidian1723 | There is. Security certs are big. Surprisingly, you dont need them for the area Im going into, but I want them anyway. | 21:47 |
| Obsidian1723 | Right now I have a DCSE, Network+, Linux+, and 32 years expedrience. | 21:47 |
| Obsidian1723 | and I cant still type worth a damn | 21:47 |
| Obsidian1723 | Kermit, what are your areas of exertise? and what areas do you have ewxperience in? they arent always the same. | 21:49 |
| kermit | Obsidian1723: my best skill is manipulating large sets of textual data with efficient combinations of bash/awk, gnu find/bin/text utils, and whatever custom C code is necessary, but i can admin too, i've been running linux since 1996 and have been on PCs since 1983... but the this resume is my top priority and you'll have it soon. | 21:50 |
| kermit | by large i mean, where cpu/memory/disk bandwidth is a bottleneck | 21:50 |
| Obsidian1723 | ok, now, I would recommend a functional format vs a time line one. | 21:51 |
| kermit | ? | 21:51 |
| kermit | resume format? | 21:51 |
| kermit | yeah i pretty much have to do it that way | 21:52 |
| Obsidian1723 | For example, my current job, and last 2 jobs before it, all dealt with custom software. I can use that. At one job, I monitored ATMs over high-security networks, at this job, I work in biometric security, I can link the two. | 21:52 |
| Obsidian1723 | So since you can C program, that can be tied into bash scripting/programming, which can tie into administration. | 21:54 |
| kermit | i'd be a fine admin, but it wouldnt be up to my potential | 21:55 |
| Obsidian1723 | You could also develop. The big thing is: What can I do for YOU? This is what I can do, how I can do it, and more over, here is HOW I did it, WHEN and WHERE I did it in the past, and how I can do it and benefit you now. | 21:55 |
| kermit | ok | 21:56 |
| Obsidian1723 | You mean you can do more than admin? | 21:56 |
| kermit | i mean i'm a coder at heart | 21:56 |
| kermit | particularly, algorithms | 21:56 |
| Obsidian1723 | Well, admin and developers/programmers are a different breed. Admins want network security, and developers/programmers whine about it because it "breaks" their code so they want root access to get things to work. | 21:56 |
| kermit | and an understanding of the underlying hardware and OS to make efficient routines | 21:57 |
| Obsidian1723 | Then you should code. | 21:57 |
| Obsidian1723 | You wopnt be happy admining | 21:58 |
| kermit | the most ideal job i ever had was generating statistics on DNA sequences, which was computationally intensive and didn't fit in RAM so eliminated typically taught techniques of 'load, process, store' | 21:58 |
| kermit | Obsidian1723: well, i would be if what most admins tell me is true, that they only really work 1/3 of the time ;) | 21:58 |
| Obsidian1723 | haha not quite true. | 21:59 |
| tonyyarusso | 32 years experience eh? Obsidian1723 is old. | 22:03 |
| kermit | if we divide my hours on a PC over 40, and count that as the number of weeks, i have that many ;) but i'm only 34. | 22:03 |
| Obsidian1723 | Started at age 11 in 1978., | 22:05 |
| Obsidian1723 | 43 now., | 22:05 |
| kermit | Obsidian1723: are you old enough to look at moder cell "phones" and think "100 new features that will take months to learn wont make up for 1 feature i'm accustomed to in my 2003 phone" ? :) | 22:34 |
| Obsidian1723 | yup | 22:37 |
| Obsidian1723 | If I wan t Internet, I have a desktyop and laptop. | 22:38 |
| kermit | if i wanted internet, i'd have stayed home ;) | 22:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | I want my phone to be a phone. Texting is going backwards. If I wanted to comminicate old skool, Id use morse code, faster than texting. | 22:38 |
| Obsidian1723 | dee dee da da deet da da deet | 22:39 |
| kermit | Obsidian1723: i miss my startac, it was 1/4 speaker, you didnt have to line up a pinhole with your ear. it's still the best *phone* ever. | 22:39 |
| Obsidian1723 | ..---.-.-- | 22:39 |
| Obsidian1723 | :D | 22:39 |
| kermit | but it cant text, and doestn have a calender, and i cant set certain people's ringtones to "none" | 22:39 |
| Obsidian1723 | I had Sprint disable texting on my phone. | 22:44 |
| kermit | who's going to dc612 tommorow? | 22:51 |
| kermit | http://dc612.org/ | 22:51 |
| Takyoji | If I was told prior I would have planned for it. :P | 23:20 |
| kermit | Takyoji: it's monthly, maybe next month then | 23:20 |
| Takyoji | ahh | 23:20 |
| kermit | Takyoji: so also is the 2600 meeting | 23:22 |
| kermit | both meet in or near downtown, which is ideal for me | 23:26 |
| kermit | downtown mpls | 23:27 |
| netbook | that sounds cool | 23:45 |
| kermit | mn2600 meetings get about a dozen people, dc612 had about 30 | 23:49 |
| netbook | don't know much about penetration testing though | 23:49 |
| kermit | i've never heard anyone talk about that at either of those | 23:49 |
| netbook | one of my coworkers is working pen testing cell networks | 23:49 |
| netbook | maybe he will go | 23:49 |
| kermit | anyone who likes *nix fits in well at either, they usually arent actually penetration testing themed | 23:51 |
| kermit | back before people did financial transactoins online, that was just an ordinary part of the fun ;) | 23:51 |
| kermit | when 95% of the people on university servers were on stolen accounts | 23:52 |
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